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Lowry '08: Change Returns?

Optimism Week continues. Today's installment will be tough, as there is an actual game to get in the way of the optimism. It's an important game, too. If the Giants win this, they're tied for first place. Tied! I spend my winter whining, and yet I can wake up tomorrow to a first-place team. This is a crazy game.

The starter for this must-win game is Noah Lowry, who was traded this offseason for a young hi...wait a sec. He's still here? How in the hell did that happen? Apparently, the Giants' only real trading chip wasn't quite as marketable as a lot of us thought. Brian Sabean says there wasn't much interest. I'm inclined to believe that, considering that Lowry was shut down at the end of last season with an injury. I'm also inclined to believe that "not much interest" translates into "all they offered us were yucky unproven players like Billy Butler!", or some variation thereof. But this is Optimism Week. Shame on you for thinking that.

Lowry's here for the season, so it's time to reminisce about just how danged exciting Lowry used to be. Before Sir Cain and St. Lincecum, Lowry was the young pitcher du jour. His minor league career was decent enough, but he got goofy with the changeup once he made it to the majors. I'll always remember this game, in which he allowed five baserunners in nine innings. Wily Mo Pena looked like someone slipped him Felix Rodriguez's scouting report before the game, as he had about six I-can't-believe-that's-not-a-98-mph-fastball hacks that completely screwed him into the ground. Good times.

It isn't as if Lowry was a late-season flash in the pan for 2004, though. He pitched 200 innings the next season with an above-average ERA and strikeout rate -- not too shabby for a 24-year-old pitcher in his first full major league season. When the 2006 season started, it wasn't unreasonable to think he would be a cornerstone of the franchise for the next few years. Then he tweaked the oblique, and his strikeout rate has never been the same. Maybe the scouting reports caught up with him, but it makes more sense to blame the injuries. After the oblique came tenderness. After the tenderness came bone chips. His control disappeared along the way.

So here's to a comeback season from Lowry. With a healthy arm, maybe the control comes back. With better location, maybe hitters are more likely to chase breaking balls and changeups. With better location, maybe his sub-mediocre fastball isn't something hitters can just sit on. Because if Lowry can regain even 75% of that 2005 magic, he'll be one of the most valuable properties the Giants control. Forget all of this pie-in-the-cove talk about how Fred Lewis might be a viable starter if things break just right, or how Kevin Frandsen might be a league-average second baseman; if Noah Lowry has a season just like the season he had three seasons ago, he'll be just as important to the rebuilding process as Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain. Not because he'll pitch as well, but because of the options the Giants would have with an above-average pitcher at a below-market rate.

There are limits to the optimism. When pitchers stop striking hitters out, it isn't as if they just need to hit the gym for an extra half-hour every week to get back what they lost. There might not be a way to get back what is lost. Three seasons ago might as well be four decades when talking about pitching arms.

It isn't a likely scenario, but it isn't an impossible scenario either. That's kind of the point of Optimism Week. Not likely, but not impossible. I'll take it.

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Re: Lowry '08: Change Returns?
Clicking that link reminded me that Ricky Ledee was a Giant.
Feliz gone, team still bad

by oldjacket on Feb 28, 2008 9:25 AM PST reply actions  

Re: Lowry '08: Change Returns?
That and the Niefi Perez and the Cody Ransom both got a shot at shortstop.

Definately good times.

by WilliamVanLandingham on Feb 28, 2008 10:43 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Lowry '08: Change Returns?
I've probably soured on Noah Lowry over the last two years more than I've ever soured on any player who I don't dislike over that same number of years. I would be thrilled if he makes me, er, sweet on him again. That would make me very very happy. I would like that.

Go Noah!

He is Vengeance. He is the Knight. He is Dave Righetti. PRAY TO HIM!

by howtheyscored on Feb 28, 2008 9:34 AM PST reply actions  

Re: Lowry '08: Change Returns?
"After the oblique came tenderness..."  Aw, I love that old song. I think Bobby Goldsboro had a minor hit with it, but it was Bob Goulet who really made it spring to life.
That's all I can stands, I can't stands no more!

by tobias on Feb 28, 2008 9:37 AM PST reply actions  

Re: Lowry '08: Change Returns?
See the ERA, how big it's grown, but friend, it hasn't been so long...

by Moggeee on Mar 2, 2008 1:04 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Lowry '08: Change Returns?
Really great observations on Lowry. The sequence of injuries you describe are 99 percent of Lowry's diminishing performances over ensuing seasons imho. Throw in a lefty's natural goofiness and a young guy having to deal with adversity and its a tough tough deal for him.

There was one weekday game in particular that I happened to catch by accident.  He was really acting like something was bothering him. And he looked really off as I recall, and Alou left him because he kept working his way out of jams. I may have even posted or commented on it at the time. Later in the year, too, Alou pulled him from a game in Los Angeles and Alou and Rags got into a little noted shouting match in the dugout about the move. Nothing much was written about it.

So who really knows. Slight injuries lead to injuries in different parts of the body. Mechanics are subconsciously altered. Control and Velocity are just off a little bit. More therapy, adjustments to mechanics, look at video, vary grips, try a different arm slot; shorten stride, lengthen stride. A zillion different things tried.

I hope he can come back. But unless he has a way of acquiring and using some sort of peds, he is going to be facing some long odds. Not that he won't be a useful pitcher. The road is long and littered with Pitchers who could only come back 90 percent.

Like they say, In baseball, whether its success or failure, its just never one thing.

by E Ticket on Feb 28, 2008 9:38 AM PST reply actions  

Very nice post
Too many people, seem to view injuries as one time discrete events.

It happens. The guy gets surgery, rehabs, it's done with.

When the truth is neural mechanics / biocmechanics and pattern learning are very complex topics, and injuries affect not only soft tissue, but also potentially the neural system.

by rfloh on Feb 28, 2008 11:45 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Lowry '08: Change Returns?
Seriously now, Grant, who's the Wednesday Optimism player?  Ortmeier?  Sanchez?  D'Alessio?
"I think I'd trust Amy Winehouse to guard my bag of coke before I'd trust Sabes to build my offense." -Dan Szymborski, Baseball Think Factory

by Lyle @ McCovey Chronicles on Feb 28, 2008 10:06 AM PST reply actions  

Re: Lowry '08: Change Returns?
Taschner.
He is Vengeance. He is the Knight. He is Dave Righetti. PRAY TO HIM!

by howtheyscored on Feb 28, 2008 10:14 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Lowry '08: Change Returns?
eff that, Rags!

Struck out and in the process made our big free agent acquisition look silly in his first AB.

by WilliamVanLandingham on Feb 28, 2008 10:46 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Lowry '08: Change Returns?
Scott Munter.
2008: The year the Giants begin to stop sucking.

by EliminateMe on Feb 28, 2008 10:49 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Lowry '08: Change Returns?
What I loved about that '04 game is that Lowry was so dominant that Ryan Freel felt the need to try for a bunt hit with 2 strikes and 2 outs in the 6th to try to bust up a no-hitter.  Maybe Farney told him to do it.

by jc2125 on Feb 28, 2008 10:44 AM PST reply actions  

That would be great!
He finished 9-4 last year in his last 16 starts. Hopefully that streak continues.
I like Lowry and hope he does well.
Proud Sponsor of the San Jose Giants Minor League Baseball Team. www.greenlightjerky.com Flavors you've heard of, flavors you haven't, none of it typical

by GreenLightJerky on Feb 28, 2008 11:17 AM PST reply actions  

Re: That would be great!
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the 50:56 K:BB ratio in that last 16 games means a lot more than the 9 wins.  He was extraordinarily lucky in 2007 and I fully expect the wheels to come off in 2008.

by KCE on Feb 28, 2008 4:29 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: That would be great!
Sadly, I agree. Which is why I would have traded him for just about anything of decent value this offseason.

by mxmob33 on Feb 28, 2008 8:42 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: That would be great!
This is the OPPOSITE of optimism, folks.

OPPOSITE.

by lrs77 on Feb 29, 2008 9:27 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Lowry '08: Change Returns?
I was at that game. It was awesome.
Nattowear | comics | Durham? I hardly know 'im!

by Natto on Feb 28, 2008 12:56 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Lowry '08: Change Returns?
Me too.
Nate Schierholtz cannot play third base. Nate Schierholtz cannot play third base. Steve Kline is pretty okay. Nate Schierholtz cannot play third base.

by groug on Feb 28, 2008 2:47 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Lowry '08: Change Returns?
Hey guys, me too! I was totally at that game! I was definitely not not at that game. I swear. I wasn't somewhere else at all!
He is Vengeance. He is the Knight. He is Dave Righetti. PRAY TO HIM!

by howtheyscored on Feb 28, 2008 3:03 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Lowry '08: Change Returns?
Should we do a McCoven pilgrimage a la Mecca in the bleachers for a day game some time this season?

Just a thought. . .

For WilltheThrill, this is Jon Miller saying goodnight. . . .

by WilltheThrill on Feb 28, 2008 7:35 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Lowry '08: Change Returns?
Along those lines, I have to be in Scottsdale for work the 13-18th. oh damb... Anyone else going to the games that weekend that would not mind a frequent reader and occasional poster for company. If so send me a note at  giantspringtraining@yahoo.com
"Baseball is Heaven's gift to mortals."

by dotcomposer on Feb 28, 2008 11:20 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Lowry '08: Change Returns?
I at least enjoyed the humor employed by Grant in making the "Noah Lowry Optimism" thread the main story again only a few short hours after he fails to pitch two innings.

I see what you did there.

He is Vengeance. He is the Knight. He is Dave Righetti. PRAY TO HIM!

by howtheyscored on Feb 29, 2008 12:22 AM PST reply actions  

Re: Lowry '08: Change Returns?
I guess none of us can know for sure, but why do you think the Giants didn't trade Noah at or before the trade deadline last season?

by sharksrog on Feb 29, 2008 12:42 AM PST reply actions  

Re: Lowry '08: Change Returns?
Before somebody falls into some sort of chasm here, let me just try to make sure this is a joke, the same way that "Can he play third base?" or "Jerome Williams was an A?" are jokes.

Is it? I just feel like this is territory you've been around long enough to have tread many times before.

He is Vengeance. He is the Knight. He is Dave Righetti. PRAY TO HIM!

by howtheyscored on Feb 29, 2008 12:50 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Lowry '08: Change Returns?
I like to think of sharksrog as the Cato the Elder of McCovey Chronicles. Cato became obsessed with the idea of annihilating Carthage, Rome's rival state, and gave speeches to that effect every chance he got. Not only that, but he took to ending every speech on any subject with "And by the way, Carthage must be destroyed."

And by the way, Lowry should have been traded at midseason.

by Evan on Feb 29, 2008 7:21 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Lowry '08: Change Returns?
Nice!  I may have to "borrow" that and use a simmilar tag line at the end of my posts.
... and by the way Dodgers should always suffer like they are back in Brooklyn before World War II.

by daveinexile on Feb 29, 2008 10:39 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Lowry '08: Change Returns?
I guess it stems from a couple of things:

First, I once thought Brian Sabean was right up there with guys like Billy Beane and John Schuerholtz as the top GM's in the game.  So now, when Brian seems to constantly be behind the learning curve, I feel somewhat betrayed.

Second, no one seems to comment on this seemingly obvious idea of trading Noah in the first half or at least the first two-thirds of last season -- either saying, yeah, that's obvious or no, it didn't make sense at that time, and here's why.

On another board, one guy said at the time that the best time to get top value for a pitcher such as Noah wasn't at or before the trade deadline, but rather during the off-season.  But that ignored the very real probability that Noah was pitching over his head and would regress more toward his actual pitching level.  And as it turned out, it also ignored the possibility Noah would be seriously injured for the second season in a row.

Now Brian Sabean says that teams are low-balling the Giants for Noah.  That raises the question of whether teams are properly reading Noah's foibles or whether Brian overvalues Noah.  When Noah wasn't traded by last year's trade deadline, I raised the question of whether Brian hadn't tried to trade Noah or whether he overvalued Noah's talent.

Noah has a career ERA of just over four (4.03), which is actually better than Barry Zito's ERA over the past three seasons.  Despite two serious injuries, Noah has exceeded 500 innings in the last three seasons.  He's not a BAD pitcher.  He's just not particularly good.

Couldn't the Giants have gotten a good hitter or at least a very good prospect for Noah last spring or early summer?

We don't know Brian's thinking process in that regard, but we do know that it appears he has (at least temporarily) missed his window of opportunity.

Could Noah Lowry be Brian's Carthage -- or has A.J. Pierzynski already reserved that title?  Too bad Cato's not around to help us solve the dilemna.

by sharksrog on Mar 2, 2008 1:23 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Lowry '08: Change Returns?
The good news though is that Cato went on to become Clousseau's personal valet and judo partner.

by sharksrog on Mar 2, 2008 1:24 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Lowry '08: Change Returns?
I think it's probably the same answer you get for why we didn't trade him in the offseason: The other GM's around the league did not see good things in his 1:1 k/bb rate, his league high run support, his career high luck quantifiers, and his injury history.

It's almost impossible to believe that Sabean wasn't shopping Lowry or at least listening to offers. The only reasonable explanation is that nobody liked what they saw enough to part with what we need to get back in a trade involving Lowry.

He is Vengeance. He is the Knight. He is Dave Righetti. PRAY TO HIM!

by howtheyscored on Mar 2, 2008 2:15 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Lowry '08: Change Returns?
Well, no one comments on it because it's impossible to know what kind of trade discussions went on. I don't see any reason to think there was great demand for Lowry at midseason, but we'll never know. It would be out of character for Sabean even to think about maximizing the value of any player at any time, though. That's just not how he approaches personnel management. So I think it's safe to assume he just bungled Lowry's hot start the same way he bungles everything else.

by Evan on Mar 3, 2008 1:14 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Find that Swagger Noah
Idolizing the Nuschler Face since April 8, 1986 / GIANTSPACE returns!

by SoFa King Mike on Feb 29, 2008 8:25 AM PST reply actions  

Re: Lowry '08: Change Returns?
From the MLB wrap of yesterday's game:

"Obviously, it wasn't all good for the Giants' projected No. 3 starter."

So the Giants are going to put him before Zito, even though Zito is pitching opening day?

by paboperfecto on Feb 29, 2008 9:23 AM PST reply actions  

Re: Lowry '08: Change Returns?
I'm going to assume you were being sarcastic, but just in case you weren't, the Giants projected rotation:
  1. Zito
  2. Cain
3. Lowry
  1. Lincecum
  2. Correia/Sanchez
If Zito is the opening day starter (aka, the #1 starter) then Lowry would be the #3 starter.  That ranking has nothing to do with their skill, just with their place in the rotation

by Viliphied on Feb 29, 2008 10:24 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Lowry '08: Change Returns?
This is a well written article, btw, definitely some of your better work.

I'm hoping Lowry pulls it together this season and reminds us why we were so excited lo those few years ago.

by TedWilliamsBobbleHead on Feb 29, 2008 11:43 AM PST reply actions  

Re: Lowry '08: Change Returns?
You can depend on Lowry for another season of solid #4 starter type work.... 25+ starts, double digit wins, ERA around 4.20, alarmingly high WHIP, pitches himself out of jams.... might regress to "5th starter" numbers this year, but still an awesome guy to have in the rotation. A home grown lefty besides. Lowry is paid as a 5th starter by today's standards.

As for the horrid performance, hey, it's spring training baybee. Lowry is working on some new stuff. Getting the rust off. Finding his mechanics. Insert Spring training games don't count baseball cliche. I'm worried about the 2008 Giants,  but Noah Lowry will not be part of the problem.

Defender of Noah Lowry.

by Kid Fresh on Mar 2, 2008 6:03 AM PST reply actions  

Re: Lowry '08: Change Returns?
The numbers you cited would actually qualify Noah for a decent #3 starter season.  IIRC the average #4 starter's ERA was over 4.50.

It's not that Noah is a horrible pitcher -- just that the time to trade a guy is when his value is highest. And before the trade deadline last season Cato's Baseball Player Analysis was saying that Noah's value was unlikely to ever be higher.

by sharksrog on Mar 2, 2008 1:27 PM PST up reply actions  

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