OTAT
by Grant Brisbee on Jan 9, 2008 12:10 PM PST
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PrintThe first in a series of one. Maybe two:
Why Ain't Sabean Done Inquired About Him?
The first player in this groundbreaking series is Mark Teahen. He came through the minors as a third baseman, but the Royals will have Alex Gordon there for the next decade. As a right fielder, Teahen doesn't have enough power. His 18-homer season in 2006 might have been for real, but any time a guy almost hits as many home runs in one season as he did in his entire minor league career, you can't automatically assume that's his new power standard. A team trading for Teahen would be wise to assume they're trading for the seven-homer Teahen from last year, and not the 18-homer Teahen of 2006. A team trading for Teahen as a right fielder would be better off looking at minor league free agents.
As a third baseman, though, the bat isn't a problem. More importantly, Teahen would be the on-base percentage god of the 2008 Giants. A .350 on-base percentage? OMGWTFGIDP! Move over, Randy! There's a new on-base sheriff in town!
Bill Mueller with less OBP and more speed? That's about right, but there's a chance he could develop Fenway Mueller's power, too. Teahen's only 26, so what you see isn't necessarily what you get. And Teahen's under contract for four more years; he'll be arbitration-eligible after this season. That makes a pretty significant difference.
The usual sabermetric consensus applies to Teahen's defense. Mitchel Lichtman has Teahen as one of the worst infielders of the past few years, and Chris Dial doesn't rank him much higher. David Pinto has Teahen as an average third baseman, as does Baseball Prospectus. Glad that's cleared up.
Teahen would be a nice player to have, but he wouldn't turn around the franchise. As such, what should the Giants give up for him? The Royals want starting pitching, and the Giants happen to have an available starter locked up for three years at below-market rates. In a neutral context, Noah Lowry's mediocrity-with-possibility-for-more is too much to give up for Teahen's mediocrity-with-possibility-for-more . Cost certainty for mediocrity means a lot more for pitchers than it does for hitters to money-pinching franchises. In the Giants' context, though, a Teahen-for-Lowry deal could make sense. The Giants haven't developed an everyday player in ten years, so overpaying for a controllable position player might make sense. Kansas City wouldn't trade Teahen for a grab bag of kinda sorta decent prospects, so it would probably be Lowry or bust.
I'm not sure if I'd make that trade, mostly because Teahen probably wouldn't ever hit for power in Mays Field. It'd probably be more prudent to hope for Lowry to have a fine 2008 season, which would increase his value substantially. Brad Hennessey, though? Whaddya say, Kansas City? Former first-round pick with an ERA of 3.42? Shiny, shiny.
Open Teahen Acquisition Thread.
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Re: OTAT
Well, he might be better than Feliz (if his defense at 3B is actually average) but probably not much better. In a vacuum, I would probably sign him over Feliz, but I won't trade Lowry for him.
Re: OTAT
But I'd still trade Lowry for him. We have a lot more need for a third baseman with scary peripherals than for a pitcher with scary peripherals.
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I'd trade Lowry for Teahen straight up. It's a fair deal on the surface for both teams, with a slight edge going to the Royals. If Teahen maintained around his 2005-2006 AVG,OBP and hit 7-10 HR's he would fill a much needed spot on the roster. As long as he didn't give up +25 with his defense. He has played nine MLB games at 1B, if his defense is awful at 3B.
The Royals home park, Kauffman Stadium, ranked 27th in HR's averaged per game during 2007 at 1.58 per game. The only parks with lower numbers were in order: 28th RFK @ 1.56 pg,29th The Phone Booth @ 1.46 pg, 30th Petco @1.44 pg. Lowry could be a serviceable pitcher there,IMO.
Re: OTAT
Feliz + Lowry has to worse than:
Teahen + Giants 6th Starter (Correia? Hennessey?)
Counting Feliz as an elite defender, I am not sure this case can be made.
Re: OTAT
Succumb to the Enchanted t-shirt! Adopted dad of Minor Izzy
Re: OTAT
Correia did well in the starters spot at the end of the year. He has always had very good stuff. Good movement and velocity, but lacked control. He seemed to find the control last year at the end. Was it a fluke ?
That is the problem with this kind of trade speculation. You have different perspectives. One evaluator has Teahen as the worst defender in MLB. Another has him as average. Who is the real Mark Teahen ?
I love OBP. By hit, by walk, by whatever. You can't score if you can't get on base. Teahen seems to have a handle on hit placement; he is not a power guy. He is a singles, doubles type of hitter. I think Grant's description of him as Bill Mueller with a slightly less OBP and more speed seems to be accurate.
Would the equation work out in the Giants favor ? I don't know. I am enough of a "stat head" to get by, but not as strong as some of the McCoven.
I am just tired of Feliz. I love the "D", I love the arm. The bat however, makes me ill every time he steps up to the plate. Giants' fans are addicted to Feliz like a junkie to crack. They think, "It's got to be better this time, right ?". They keep buying it, using it and waking up in the morning thinking, "What have I done ?" :-)
Apologies for the tirade.
Re: OTAT
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Jan 9, 2008 2:41 PM PST up reply actions
Re: OTAT
I always forget about the draft pick
Succumb to the Enchanted t-shirt! Adopted dad of Minor Izzy
Re: OTAT
by giantsrainman on Jan 9, 2008 4:00 PM PST up reply actions
Lowry vs. Teahen
I don't think Lowry will do well in the future.
by Lyle @ McCovey Chronicles on Jan 10, 2008 7:18 AM PST up reply actions
Re: Lowry vs. Teahen
But, I do a there lies our difference in opinion. I think Lowry's K/BB issue is all tied to his health and I expect him to return to being healthy. Could I be wrong? Sure, but so could you.
by giantsrainman on Jan 10, 2008 4:21 PM PST up reply actions
Re: Lowry vs. Teahen
Re: Lowry vs. Teahen
None of Lowry's injuries have been career threatening and none of them have been the same. I just do not see the basis for your concern that he will not be healthy again.
by giantsrainman on Jan 10, 2008 10:22 PM PST up reply actions
Re: Lowry vs. Teahen
Re: Lowry vs. Teahen
by giantsrainman on Jan 11, 2008 6:31 PM PST up reply actions
Re: OTAT
What are the odds that someone we draft will be as good as Lowry? Also, how many years do we control Teahan?
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IIRCC, Teahen would be under team control for four years, three of them arb eligible years.
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by someguynamedg on Jan 9, 2008 12:54 PM PST reply actions
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Re: OTAT
Miguel Cabrera:
2007 VORP: 71.4
2007 FRAA: 5
2007 WARP3: 11.2
Pedro Feliz:
2007 VORP: -2.7
2007 FRAA: 27
2007 WARP3: 5.4
FRAA may not be a great stat, but it would have to be off by orders of magnitude on both Cabrera and Feliz for this to even out. Even discounting FRAA entirely, Feliz has to get back 74 runs of defense to make up for the offensive gap. This does not strike me as possible, even for someone who might be the best defensive 3B in the game.
Incidentally,
Mark Teahen:
2007 VORP: 11.9 (against a presumably higher RF replacement level)
2006 VORP (possible career, but injury shortened, year against 3B replacement level): 27.9
2006 FRAA (as a 3B): 5
2006 WARP3: 6.2
2007 WARP3: 7.7
The case can be made that Teahen v. Feliz is a wash, or worse. Still Feliz has never had a WARP3 as high as Teahan has posted each of the last two years.
WARP/VORP/Etc
I was just going by a discussion of "runs saved" defensive stats that were discussed in another thread a couple of weeks ago. In that discussion, it looked like Cabrera had a net benefit of about 5 runs/yr over Feliz.
It's actually closer than you think
Those same metrics have Cabrera around 15-25 runs BELOW average.
If you want to stick to stats by Baseball Prospectus, their new SFR, by Dan Fox, also rates Feliz similarly highly, at 29 runs above avearage. SFR has him at 15 runs below average.
AFAIK, FRAA is the only metric that has Cabrera above average.
Of course, Cabrera wasn't always this bad. So, he could improve.
For offense, using Batting Runs above average from Baseball Prospectus, which compares players to actual hitters, and not some hypothetical replacement level player from AA:
Miguel Cabrera: 47.
Feliz: -14.
Re: OTAT
No.
Re: OTAT
Re: OTAT
The good defensive stats have the difference between the two last year as about 50 runs. That's not enough to make up the difference between their hitting skills, but it's a lot more than you ever would have thought, isn't it?
Anyway, Cabrera's a red herring in this discussion. A few things in defense of Teahen's defense:
- His numbers aren't as bad as Cabrera's.
- He's only spent a season and a half at third, so the sample size isn't overwhelming.
- He's young enough to get better.
Re: OTAT
by nick @ McCovey Chronicles on Jan 9, 2008 1:55 PM PST up reply actions
Re: OTAT
Offense vs. Defense
But I could be wrong.
by Lyle @ McCovey Chronicles on Jan 10, 2008 7:21 AM PST up reply actions
Re: OTAT
Besides, we shouldn't look at Third as a place to store the powerless. If he doesn't have enough power for right then he doesn't have enough for third.
third is the new black.
Re: OTAT
with Zito and Lowry and maybe Misch pitching, that's a lot of slow pitches to right handed batters. Who hit hard shots toward the 3B guy.
Would you look at that
Succumb to the Enchanted t-shirt! Adopted dad of Minor Izzy
Re: Would you look at that
I'm still opposed. Apart from the aesthetic considerations, I don't want to give up that draft pick, I don't want to sign yet another player who's into the age of decline, and I don't want to give up on the many promising and semipromising third basemen floating around out there. Encarnacion, LaRoche, Marte, Teahen, Betemit, McPherson ... surely Sabean can land one of these guys cheaply.
Re: Would you look at that
Re: Would you look at that
Applause, Woo-Hoo!!
Absolutley correct Sir.
Re: Would you look at that
Re: Would you look at that
by Lyle @ McCovey Chronicles on Jan 10, 2008 7:22 AM PST up reply actions
Re: Would you look at that
Re: OTAT
Yes he could crash and burn like the Hindenburg at Lakehurst. He could easily be a legit MLB player in 2010 and beyond. We know Teahan can play the field a large amount of time ( over 3K innings in 3 seasons) at age 26. It's not like the Giants have anyone better lined up for either 1st or 3rd already at any time over the next 3 seasons. And unlike a lot of possible pieces to trade for him Lowry/Sanchez should be near replicateable from inside the Giant System.Cain, Lincecume & Rowand might have a team mate they can count on for the bulk of their contracts? So what exactly is the huge down side here?
Re: OTAT
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And it beats the " Steady as she goes. That is not an iceberg" the Feliz would be.
Re: OTAT
I'm getting confused with transportation related catastrophe metaphors.
by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Jan 9, 2008 11:02 PM PST up reply actions
transportation metaphors
by Lyle @ McCovey Chronicles on Jan 10, 2008 7:24 AM PST up reply actions
Re: OTAT
Re: OTAT
by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Jan 10, 2008 5:16 PM PST up reply actions
Re: OTAT
I kind of like the image of the Hindenburg crashing into an iceberg and then Hans Gruber blasts away with his Glock semi-automatic as he falls off the top of the Statute of Liberty because his sleeve tore while Alfred Hitchcock had a hold of it trying to save him. It makes Giants 2008 seem not so bad.
Now will Sabean please take the bull by the horns and run with it?
Re: OTAT
To me is seems we are currently booked on the Titanic because the front office is more afraid flying ( young help) is going to automatically be the Hindenburg.
by daveinexile on Jan 11, 2008 12:37 PM PST up reply actions
Re: OTAT
Two, I take issue with Grant's statement "Teahen's only 26, so what you see isn't necessarily what you get." A month ago everyone, myself included, was screaming that because Alex Rios was already 26 going on 27, he was unlikely to make the leap to superstardom from his current status as a Very Good Player, whereas Lincecum might. That's why we didn't want the trade going down, all the other issues notwithstanding. If Teahan is (at best) mediocre defensively and isn't currently a power hitter, why beyond wishful thinking should we expect this to change by, say, 2010?
Re: OTAT
Mid-twenties hitters can improve instead of plateau, and that should be taken into consideration. It shouldn't make a whole bunch of difference when determining what to give up in a trade, though.
by Grant Brisbee on Jan 9, 2008 3:04 PM PST up reply actions
Re: OTAT
not me
by Lyle @ McCovey Chronicles on Jan 10, 2008 8:56 AM PST up reply actions
Let's get nerdy
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=6988
Since it is a subscriber piece, I won't post the whole thing, but a summary is below. Basically, Teahen wants to be a "use the whole field" type hitter even though it saps his power, while his coaches have tried to make him more of a "pull for power" guy.
"What can we take from this? Teahen is a hitter better served by trying to get loft under pitches in order to drive them deep into the outfield, as he just doesn't do enough with the ball when he tries to poke it with a line-drive swing. If he were still in the infield and getting on base while hitting for a decent average, you might be able to put up with the lack of power to some degree.
His defense helps his cause, but only to a point. The Davenport Translations love him defensively in right field, and John Dewan's Revised Zone Rating sees him as a bit above-average, but that doesn't change the fact that he can't out-slug Yuniesky Betancourt while playing an offensive position. The most frustrating thing about Teahen is that after seeing his 2006 season and noting the apparent changes in his style during 2007, we know he can perform better than he did in '07, but unless he sticks with what works for him offensively--and not what he prefers to do--we won't see that production again."
Re: OTAT
Re: OTAT
And I was thinking about the whole Lowry for Teahen thing this morning.
How about this:
Teahean and Ryan Shealy for Lowry
I know Shealy hasn't knocked anyone's socks off and he was injured (with a broken foot) last season, but I bet the Royals wouldn't think twice about throwing him into the deal. I could see a sort of Carlos Pena thing happening for Shealy. At the very least he would be a young-ish back up to challenge Ortmeir to step up his game at first base.
by lrs77 on Jan 9, 2008 3:09 PM PST reply actions
Re: OTAT
Um... I doubt that.
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by triznad on Jan 10, 2008 12:28 PM PST up reply actions
Re: OTAT
Plus, Shealy is now blocked by Billy Butler, sort of. Or, maybe. The Royals are probably looking to drop him.
Then the Giants could be covered at the corners.
It's not the most glamorous proposal, but it could work out well for both sides. The Royals need a southpaw in their starting rotation and the Giants need corner infielders.
I also just read that talks have once again "stalled" between the Giants and Feliz.
Sounds like good news to me!
by lrs77 on Jan 10, 2008 12:53 PM PST up reply actions
Re: OTAT
Re: OTAT
In 2007:
3b production league wide: .273/.341/.442
RF: .281/.350/.453
In 2006:
3b: .276/.346/.458
RF: .276/.346/.460
There's certainly a difference in offensive value, but not "that" large of one (and a miniscule one in 2006) - plus, the presence of one Mendoza-line-esque Nick Punto playing for MIN almost certainly punished 3b relatively in 2007. Teahen is not Pedro and the higher OBP has relatively higher value, but he's not a savior.
Re: OTAT
But yeah, Mark Teahan=whatever.
And I don't really think he's worth Lowry.
Re: OTAT
Lowry has been a good pitcher for us, not mediocre at all. Overall, he has kept his ERA below 4.00 for much of his career, except for the month of September 2006 when he clearly tried to pitch with the elbow problem he eventually was shelved on the DL with.
While his ERA is a product of his home park, in 2007, his road ERA was 3.97, which is good, any pitcher who can get his ERA under 4.00 in this era is good. And if you look at his career road numbers, and if you eliminate the 3 horrible road games that Sept 2006 when he pitched while injured, his ERA on the road for his career is only 4.36, which is still good, but edging towards average. Mediocrity are pitchers who have ERA in the high 4's and above, like Brett Tomko, who has been lucky to have pitched at pitcher's park, his road ERA is over 5.
People see his declining K/BB ratio and K/9 and just assume the worse. While they are good indicators in general, they clearly don't hold for a select group of lefties who are able to defy DIPS theory. If Lowry has been able to pitch well now for basically 3.5 seasons now, I would say that he has proved that he's a good pitcher.
If other teams don't believe it, that's fine with me, that means we get to keep a good pitcher on our pitching staff, he's good as our #3 starter, great as our #4 starter, he could probably win close to 20 games pitching regularly against other team's #4 starter, who average giving up nearly 5 runs per game (RS=5, RA=4, Wins = 18 with 30 starts).
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Jan 9, 2008 6:03 PM PST reply actions
Re: OTAT
Take a look at the "FIP-ERA" column on his Hardball Times page. This shows the gap between the ERA predicted by his peripherals and his actual ERA. For Lowry's first three seasons, the difference was minimal; the best figure was a quarter of a run, which is completely unremarkable, especially on a team with a good defense.
But in 2007, the difference jumps to nearly a full run. Did he suddenly discover in the off-season how to pitch beyond his peripherals?
Lowry might turn out to be a DIPS-defying lefty like Glavine or Rueter. On the other hand, he might turn out to be a lefty like Jarrod Washburn, who had a terrific ERA in 2005 despite mediocre peripherals -- but whose ERA shot up to match his peripherals the next year.
What makes you believe it's the former?
Re: OTAT
All I was trying to state is that Lowry has been very consistently around 4.00 ERA for much of his career, however he did it, and that DIPS theory does not work for everyone, it obviously didn't work well for Lowry in 2007.
He has pitched very well for basically 3 seasons out of 3.25 seasons (roughly), very well I define as around 4.00 ERA or less. That makes me think it's the former.
In addition, he also outperformed DIPS in 2006 as well. He clearly was pitching with a hurt elbow in September. At the end of August, his ERA was 3.75, however, his H/9 was 8.8, his BB/9 was 3.2, his K/9 was 4.6, and his K/BB was 1.5, one OK, the latter three were bad or worse. Even his HR/9 was 1.1, which is bad. So he has been doing it for two years now, essentially since he had his oblique problem. His horrible September masked how much he beat up DIPS/FIPS up to the end of August.
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Jan 16, 2008 10:11 PM PST up reply actions
Re: OTAT
I can buy him as a comparable player, but Washburn never was able to strike out guys, he had his trick, whatever it was, but when the hitters figured him out, he was average. He just had a perfect storm year to get his 2005, which undoubtedly got him his huge contract.
Lowry was a good strikeout pitcher when he came up, but, for whatever the reason, he can't strike guys out anymore like that since his oblique injury, but still has been able to keep his ERA under 4.00 - again, for the most part, except for Sept 2006 when he pitched injured - which is a very good feat. He has shown that he can change with reduced skills, and so I have faith that he can continue to do it, at least for a while more, he's still only 27 for 2008.
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Jan 16, 2008 10:23 PM PST up reply actions
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by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Jan 16, 2008 10:15 PM PST up reply actions
Aside from what Evan and jponry
This isn't a Tom Glavine or Mark Buehrle type situation, guys who have consistently performed better than their DIPS stats, guys whose peripherals have stayed fairly consistent throughout their careers.
Re: OTAT
Dood, we can paint these fools up to look like Christopher Reeve in red briefs and blue tights, but they are still unwatchable. I am semi-curious as to exactly what the date will be when the sea gulls and tourists from Iowa outnumber fans.
Appreciate the effort though.
by E Ticket on Jan 9, 2008 6:10 PM PST reply actions
Re: OTAT
Re: OTAT
The Giants need either young players who have shown they can do it better than average or younger prospects who have a shot at doiong so.
To me, Teahen appears to fit neither category. Mark's high percentage of ground balls helps him forge a decent average. His high percentage of strikeouts prevents his average from being much more than decent.
I'm glad we discussed Teahen, but I wish he were a better answer.
Re: OTAT
I have to keep screaming though, that Feliz is not an option at this point. Maybe I'm not being fair to him because I will simply DIE watching one more AB in a Giants uni... but I really don't care right now. I'd rather give up a fringe prospect for Inge. I'd rather trade Winn and Sanchez and something for Rolen (we pay the whole contract). Lowry for Teahen wouldn't make me happy, but nothing that includes losing Feliz (and getting a draft pick?) could make me very angry.
I don't like the way so many people seem to be coming to a "well, Feliz isn't so bad, considering the options..." conclusions. What scares me is that the Giants might be doing the same thing. Rich Aurilia is a better option on a team going nowhere, because he'd save us 6 million and a draft pick, AND maybe be worth a ham sandwich (no mustard) at the deadline. Frandsen at 3B would kill birds, because Durham could build value at 2B....
Re: OTAT
- Its a Junior G-Man thingie. Playing at being a GM and trying to balance petty-cash for a budget conscious billionaire. This is not my idea of a good time even when being handsomely compensated.
- They subconsciously think Fantasy Team rosters work in real life.
- They have short memories, and forget how fucking infuriating it was to watch some of the most stupid brain-dead, donkey-ass stubborn Plate Appearances in the history of Major League Baseball.
- They forget that guys like this who are constantly killing the drill deflate a team the same way an offensive tackle constantly kills drives by flinching everytime a DE blinks. And yes I'm looking at you Bubba Paris.
- Its rained for 30 days and 50 nights, and their brains are water-addled.
- They have no intention whatsoever of watching any of Feliz' At-Bats, knowing that many others will, and they hate the "many others".
by E Ticket on Jan 10, 2008 9:52 AM PST up reply actions
Re: OTAT
Love my Moneyballers
Here's notes on his progress over time:
4/22/04 On DeckBaseball Prospects
3B Mark Teahen went 2-for-5 with a double, a run scored, and 2 RBIs, SS Mark Kiger was 2-for-5 with a run scored and 3 RBIs, and C Jeremy Brown went 2-for-3 with a run scored to lead the Midland attack. Teahen continues to hit. He currently ranks 2nd in the TL in RBIs (14) and is 3rd in batting (.389).
5/4/04 On Deck
3B Mark Teahen went 3-for-4 with a double, a run scored, and an RBI in Midland's (OAK) 5-2 conquest of Frisco (TEX). Teahen is tied for 4th in the TL in doubles (9) and is 8th in batting (.337). He's drawn 16 walks in 25 games and he leads the RockHounds in RBIs with 17.
5/7/04 On Deck
3B Mark Teahen went 2-for-4 with a dinger (2) and 2 RBIs for Midland in defeat. Teahen has had no problem with Double-A thus far, ranking 7th in the TL in batting (.344). He's drawn 16 walks in 26 games. Teahen did make an error in the game, giving him all of one error this season. Impressive.
5/14/04 On Deck
3B Mark Teahen went 2-for-5 with an RBI in Midland's (OAK) 4-3 road victory over Frisco (TEX). Teahen's reign of terror continues. He has now hit in 9 straight games, going 18-for-39 (.462) with 9 runs scored and 12 RBIs. He ranks 3rd in the TL in RBIs (28) and 4th in batting (.363).
6/22/04 John Sickels, ESPN Down on the Farm
Although he hasn't quite lived up to the Jason Giambi comparisons made when Oakland picked him out of St. Mary's in the Moneyball draft, Teahen has taken a big step forward this year refining his bat, pulling the ball more often for power will maintaining his plate discipline. Recently promoted to Triple-A, he's 14-for-58 (.241) with a .353 OBP so far. He was hitting .335/.419/.543 for Midland before moving up from Double-A. Teahen is also a sound defensive player at third base. His name is cropping up in trade rumors, like Blanton's, and if he continues to hit well he will get an opportunity shortly, for Oakland or someone else.
7/15/04 Rotoworld top 100 prospects
71. Mark Teahen - 3B Royals - Age 22 - ETA: Sept. 2004
Previous rankings: None
.335/.419/.543, 6 HR, 36 RBI, 44/29 K/BB, 0 SB in 197 AB for Double-A Midland
.275/.383/.391, 0 HR, 10 RBI, 22/11 K/BB, 0 SB in 69 AB for Triple-A Sacramento
.254/.313/.424, 2 HR, 7 RBI, 17/4 K/BB, 0 SB in 59 AB for Triple-A Omaha
Teahen's breakthrough season allowed the A's to get Octavio Dotel in the three-team Carlos Beltran deal. A 2002 first-round pick, Teahen didn't show much besides decent on-base skills and solid defense at third base until this year. The sudden increase in power was in part a Midland creation, but Teahen has the line-drive swing to hit 15 homers per year. He likely will be a regular for the Royals next year, and he should have a Joe Randa-type career.
8/15/04 On Deck
3B Mark Teahen smacked 2 doubles, homered, and drove in 2 runs in Omaha's (KCR) 8-6 loss at Edmonton (MTL) on Thursday. Teahen has a hit in 11 out of the last 12 games, going 15-for-46 (.326). He's hitting .282 with 33 RBIs in 62 Triple-A games.
9/7/04 On Deck
3B Mark Teahen went 2-for-4 with a dinger (8) and 2 runs scored in Omaha's (KCR) 8-4 loss at Iowa (CHC) on Sunday. Teahen could be the Royals' starting third baseman at the start of next season. He played solid ball in the PCL this year, hitting .279 with 23 doubles, 42 runs scored, and 41 RBIs in 86 games.
9/11/06 Hardball Times
Great summary of career so far:
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/mark-teahen-steps-up/
WOW
by Lyle @ McCovey Chronicles on Jan 10, 2008 9:02 AM PST up reply actions
Re: OTAT
I wonder what the Giants' scouts think of Teahen's defense.
Re: OTAT
In a free agent vacuum, Teahen over Feliz might give me pause. I believe in building a pitching team around strong defense, so Teahen takes a major, major hit there. He's not just not good, he's bad. But I'd take Teahen offensively over Feliz...though maybe not by as much as a long shot.
But trading for Teahen? Trading Lowry??? Geeze, with two months left in the season, Grant was making the case for Lowry netting us four top prospects, but a very minor injury later, and now he's only worth the Royals' table scraps? (And no, he was never going to get us four top prospects)
If it's trading Lowry for Teahen or keeping Lowry and signing Feliz for two years, I'll take Feliz. Lowry should be worth a lot more now, and he will be worth a lot more next season.
I wonder how much of this opinion is being fueled by the 'anything but Pedro' emotion out there. I mean, hurting the team to get rid of him? This is a guy who just got openly admitted as being the lesser to minor league free agents at another position. Frankly, I'd rather have Leone than trade for Teahen at third. And I'd definitely have Frandsen. But if the only two choices were signing Feliz or trading for Teahen, I'd take Feliz any day of the week.
Change for change's sake does not equal imagination. It does, however, equal desperation (and usually turns into a downward spiral).
Re: OTAT
Re: Teahen. The only difference between young mediocre players and old mediocre players is the hope that the young players will get better. Teahen's profile doesn't really give a lot of reason for hope. He's overwhelmingly a GB hitter, he has a pretty pedestrian contact rate, and his consistently crappy HR/F rate suggests there's not a lot of power to expect. Put him on an old, slow team, and enjoy the GIDPs and the lazy flies to left! Today's Mark Teahen is tomorrow's Shea Hillenbrand. Possibly the far edge of his upside is Randy Winn with a little less speed.
It's just a shame that Sabean doesn't have a clue about going after players with a skill set that suggests some kind of high ceiling (my new sig indicates who I'd like to see him target, but I seriously doubt it'll happen).
Lowry's upside
by Lyle @ McCovey Chronicles on Jan 10, 2008 9:05 AM PST up reply actions
Re: OTAT
That's the iceberg we seem to be charging full speed ahead towards and the front office needs to start taking some gambles on younger(ish) players. If the front office does not think they have serviceable prospects on hand they need to get a couple from some were and play them. If they are confident enough in Teahan to play him then I am cool with that. If they are confident with some else ( to steadily play them) that could still be playing productive MLB baseball in 2012 then I am cool with a Lowry type swap with that as well.
It s not like I think Lowry is crap. Far from it. Some times though one has to lean hard on the tiller for the good of the boat. This is starting to look like such a time.
Re: OTAT
The power will come, but it won't be Konerko power... it will be Durham power. Only, he'll actually have above league average BA's.
No one wants Teahen on the Gyros more than me? He's on like every franchise I do on EA Sports games. He was a teammate of my best friend at Saint Mary's. He's super sarcastic, and really competitive. Where do we sign?
Re: OTAT
Re: OTAT
I don't think he can remain competitive and sarcastic. I see a regression to the mean, and to the meanness.
Re: OTAT
Trade for Teahan, Sign Feliz
He can play all three.
Feliz can come in and play D for the Giros, to give our young pitching some support. And hit in the 6 or 7 hole.
You could try out Teahan in the 3, 4 or 5 hole.
Sounds like a compromise that may help us fight for 4th place!!
by justinohan on Jan 10, 2008 1:42 PM PST reply actions
Re: OTAT
He had Shoulder surgery in `06.
http://kansascity.royals.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061018&content_id=1716797&vkey=news_ kc&fext=.jsp&c_id=kc
And the move to the OF was not only done because of the emergence of Gordon.( which I had assumed was the reason)
http://kansascity.royals.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061017&content_id=1715403&vkey=news_ kc&fext=.jsp&c_id=kc
With 17 assists from RF it seems reasonable that his shoulder has healed. This kind of puts him the potentional to recover some of his power category to me.
Re: OTAT
The guy has shown flashes of brilliance. Wouldn't it make sense for the Giants to claim him off waivers since we need a first baseman and it's slim pickens in that category? It would be a risk but he could have a breakout year, or he could be a total bust that costs the Giants next to nothing.
I'm placing my vote for claiming Chris Shelton off waivers:
Yea
by lrs77 on Jan 14, 2008 1:12 PM PST reply actions
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