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Pollyanna

Thumb_tiny by Grant on in News

I get the decision. I really do. If the Giants are going to be an awful team, it doesn't really matter if they have an achy 43-year-old getting on base at a high clip. They're going to be awful, and they need to revel in it. 1985: "Hang in There". 2008: "We're Sorry. We're Really, Really Sorry." If the plan is to throw a bunch of young players to the wall and see who sticks, it doesn't make sense to give 300 or 400 plate appearances to Bonds. He can still play, but if the Giants are going to implement a true rebuilding plan, there isn't a place for him on this team.

Except the Giants aren't going to implement a true rebuilding plan. They're going to use the money saved on Bonds to throw at players who won't be worth it. They're going to try to patch this team up. They're going to conflate "getting younger" with "signing 30-year-olds to long-term deals." If they trade pitching for actual prospects, I have no confidence they'll pick the right prospects.

If the Giants don't trade Dave Roberts and Randy Winn, they'll both get 400 at-bats each, and that's a conservative estimate. Ray Durham and Rich Aurilia will still be on the roster, and they'll get a ton of at-bats.

The young players who do get a shot will have to buck some odds to be average. Nate Schierholtz looks like he'll need to be a .300 hitter to have any kind of value right now. Rajai Davis and Fred Lewis are fun to watch, but they don't have outstanding minor league track records. Even the hardiest of Frandsenites will only put Kevin Frandsen's ceiling somewhere around that of a vintage Mark Grudzielanek, and that's a ceiling that isn't likely to come in 2008.

The team will be awful. They could be awful with a team filled with projects and prospects. That would be my first choice, but there's just no way that's going to happen. So they'll be awful with a team filled with busted veterans, average veterans, expensive (but new!) veterans, and a couple of prospects fighting for at-bats.

If that's the plan, I want Bonds back. I want to have one player in the lineup who has a chance against pitchers like Roy Oswalt and Jake Peavy. I want to have one player who looks like he knows what he's doing. If the Giants aren't going to completely give in to a three-year offensive rebuilding plan, I want to have one player in the lineup who makes the game worth watching.

Nope. The Giants will spend their money like morons. They'll trade like morons. This is my guess at the roster:

C - Molina
1B - Richie Sexson (Brad Hennessey and Henry Sosa to Seattle)
2B - Durham/Frandsen
SS - Jack Wilson (Jonathan Sanchez and Clayton Tanner to Pittsburgh)
3B - Mike Lowell (3/$34M)
LF - Roberts/Davis
CF - Torii Hunter (5/$90M)
RF - Winn

SP: Lincecum, Cain, Lowry, Zito, Correia

RP: Scott Linebrink (4/$32M), Shawn Chacon (2/$12M), Brian Wilson, Tyler Walker, Steve Kline, Scott Eyre (2/$8M)

It's going to be an abomination. They're going to look at the millions they aren't paying Bonds, and they're going to get those little cartoon dollar signs in their eyes. But Bonds had a better season than anyone on the free-agent market, and the Giants were still one of the worst offensive teams in baseball. Replace Bonds with Torii Hunter's .330 on-base percentage, please. Do it. It'll be hilarious to read the excuses for the first couple of seasons.

Sabean was on KNBR yesterday, and he was talking about "moving runners over", holding leads at the ends of games, and "winning games with defense." Yeah, you got it, Sabes. That's the problem with the Giants. It's the little things. The little things killed the Giants. Damn those little things. Damn those little things to hell.

This team can't score runs.

There is no one on the free-agent market who will help them score enough runs to compete.

The organization needs to find the players who can help future Giant teams score runs.

Anything else, especially now that Bonds isn't going to be around, is a waste of time.

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Barf
Barry Bombs gear | comics | Durham? I hardly know 'im!

by Natto on Sep 22, 2007 11:46 AM PDT   0 recs

Re: Pollyanna
Please, please, please. Be wrong Grant. Be wrong.

Wait. It may in fact be impossible for you to be wrong in this case.

Crap.

Merkin Valdez career SO/9: 10.8

by Poe on Sep 22, 2007 11:49 AM PDT   0 recs

Re: Pollyanna
Sabean, "Taking Arizona and San Diego as an example, you don't have to win by building a lineup that scores a ton of runs."

Yeah, but doesn't that seem to make winning a lot easier? The Padres just barely eek out a playoff spot each year (and their offense isn't even that bad). The Diamonbacks have a truly horrible offense but they've clearly made some pact with the devil whereby they don't have to outscore the competition to win games.

there is no pain greater than being behind the Rockies in the standings

by oldjacket on Sep 22, 2007 11:56 AM PDT   0 recs

Re: Pollyanna
Arizona constitutes a statistical anomaly. No team is going to win year after year with a team that gets outscored.
Bonds stands alone.

by nostocksjustbonds on Sep 22, 2007 12:05 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

The Padres are scoring
have an OPS+ of 98, which is about middle of the pack. The Giants 87, last in the NL.

Sabean is either an idiot or a stooge.

by rfloh on Sep 22, 2007 12:31 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: The Padres are scoring
Either/or?

How about both?

Brian Anderson: converting saves and dominating as best he can.

by Anticon23 on Sep 22, 2007 12:32 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Pollyanna
Yeah, you can do it. That doesn't make it a f*cking good idea! </bigger and blacker>
Dave Righetti: You don't know him. / Read My Blog, Because I Write It

by howtheyscored on Sep 22, 2007 12:34 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Pollyanna
I feel like you are 100% right Grant, and I really wish you weren't.

The fact that Sabes keeps saying bullshit like that really makes me think that he just. doesn't. get it. I mean look at our team rankings this year:

OBP: 15th
SLG: 16th
HR: 14th
2B: 16th
SB: 4th
SH: 6th

but yeah, we're losing because we don't do the "little things" right.

It's not that freaking hard to see why the Giants suck. It should be completely obvious to anyone with a brain.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Sep 22, 2007 12:04 PM PDT   0 recs

What makes it even worse
is that they just got rid of the best hitter.

I seriously wonder what the team OPS+, already an awful 87, will decline to next year.

by rfloh on Sep 22, 2007 12:50 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Pollyanna
Bonds stands alone.

by nostocksjustbonds on Sep 22, 2007 12:07 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: Pollyanna
I think that your scenario is a definite possibility.  I sincerely hope not though.  I hope Sabean and Co. were sincere when they said that things they did in the past were mistakes and they are going to try and turn a new leaf.  But I could so see them doing exactly what you say.  

If they do, then the decision to get rid of Bonds will become the abomination that most here see it as.  But I am willing to let them prove their intentions before I start getting all over them.

"The fact the Giants have 11 free agents concerns Barry." Jeff Borris, last off-season

by thehavenot on Sep 22, 2007 12:09 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: Pollyanna
Normally I would be inclined to agree with you, but last year's offseason changed my mind. They sung the same song last year, and then signed a bunch of 35 year olds once again. They came into the offseason with their priority being a centerfielder, which was something they really didn't need. The people running this team are looking like they're lost in the wilderness, and I give them credit for nothing. My fear is that they've locked themselves into the "pitching, speed and defense" thing and have identified Bonds as being someone who doesn't fit in with that theme, forgetting that he's the only one on the team that can hit with power and get on base.
Randy Messenger: "Pat Misch is going to get his first win of the season?? Not if I can help it!!!"

by rxmeister on Sep 22, 2007 3:06 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Pollyanna
Yeah, I can see last off-season shaking your faith in the organization.  I understand your skepticism, I really do.  Which is why I said that i could see them doing exactly what Grant laid out.  

But how many times can someone as smart as Sabean (yes, I mean that) make the same mistake?  

I have a glimmer of hope (just a glimmer) that he has figured out that young and cheap players have value.  I am hoping that Cain, Lincecum and Lowry have shown him that young does not mean bad.  I am hoping that he has looked at past signings, past trades, the current free agent crop, the current roster, and the performance of the guys he brought in last off-season, in conjunction with the performance of Cain, Lincecum and Lowry and comes to the conclusion that he should not be signing free-agents for expensive and long contracts.  I hope that the fact that Rajai Davis has outperformed Dave Roberts, that Kevin Frandsen has outperformed Ray Durham, that Nate Schierholtz has looked good, that Hennessey outperformed Armando Benitez and that Brian Wilson has absolutely dominated leads Sabean to conclude that we must incorporate as many young, cheap players as possible and that means that next year is a rebuilding year and so must be considered as such and that is why he let Bonds go.  

I will wait until the off-season and then once Mike Lowell has been signed I will call for Sabean's head just like everyone else.  But I am one to give the benefit of the doubt, so I will wait until then.

One can hope.  It's just a glimmer but I will grasp onto it.

"The fact the Giants have 11 free agents concerns Barry." Jeff Borris, last off-season

by thehavenot on Sep 22, 2007 6:01 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Pollyanna
why would any free agent worth having want to come to the Giants unless they're desperate? If A-Rod walks away from NYY, then they'll go after Lowell.

even those free agent salaries are diluted by the fact that living in the Bay Area is uber-expensive.

Sabean and co have no fucking clue what they're doing. None. They might as well trade Cain and Lincecum because their careers are going to be wasted waiting for the offense to get on the board.

Bonds stands alone.

by nostocksjustbonds on Sep 22, 2007 12:11 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: Pollyanna
Grant, I read your guess at an '08 lineup and I almost cried.  Because it seems all too likely.
Brian Anderson: converting saves and dominating as best he can.

by Anticon23 on Sep 22, 2007 12:29 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: Pollyanna
If they're getting rid of Barry, I keep praying that they'll have the guts to do a complete rebuilding year and play young guys at each position.  Even if they lost 100 games I could respect that choice -- sometimes sacrifices must be made.    

But if they do like Grant says then it will cause me untold amounts of anguish.  

Zealously advocating for Nate the Great since 2007.

by orangeandblackattack on Sep 22, 2007 11:13 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

"...winning games with defense..."
Losing them with no offense.

(Open your hymnals to page 2006...7..8..9..)

Waiting breastlessly for the Resurrection , hoping I didn't just kill it. Again.

by victor frankenstein on Sep 22, 2007 12:51 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: Pollyanna
Thinking about that lineup makes me sleepy-and a little nauseous, but mostly sleepy.

by out machine on Sep 22, 2007 12:52 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: Pollyanna
Since the Giants didn't make a strategic decision to rebuild a few years ago I would love to see them gobble up former "can't miss" prospects like Sean Burroughs, Brad Nelson and Brian Anderson types (last year Carlos Pena would have qualified).  

Team them up with our somewhat promising young guys and let them suffer for a year.  Hopefully you catch lightning in a bottle and can trade for some promising prospects.

There is no way in hell this will happen but it seems like a more preferable strategy particularly with the awful free agent class.

by slcgiant on Sep 22, 2007 1:03 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: Pollyanna
few people are going to go to PacBC&T Park to watch a bunch of 2-1 losses.
Bonds stands alone.

by nostocksjustbonds on Sep 22, 2007 1:09 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: Pollyanna
One place I'm pretty sure Grant is wrong is Jack Wilson.  

1) I doubt even Sabean would be stupid enough to think he would be preferable to Vizquel.  2) Vizquel would probably be willing to sign a 1-year deal for less than Wilson is making in 2008.  3) If they insisted on getting Wilson, he could probably be had for a lot less than Sanchez and Tanner depending on how much salary they'd be willing to pick up.

The rest of this scenario is way too plausible for my liking.

The Maharajai steals at will (plus he's not Matt Morris).

by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Sep 22, 2007 1:13 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: Pollyanna
You're looking at "Jack Wilson." Brian Sabean would trade for "Jack Wilson, 'young player', coming off a career year."

The Tigers were willing to eat his entire salary, or they were willing to give up "two of their top six prospects" but they weren't willing to eat the contract and give up the prospects. Someone will improve on the Tigers' offer.

I think the Pirates were wise to wait until the offseason, when Eckstein is the best free-agent option. Of all of the players up there, I'm most confident that Wilson will be a Giant. When Sabean talks about trading pitching for "younger position players", I'm sure he means guys like Wilson, and not guys like Asdrubal Cabrera or Reid Brignac, just to pull two names out of the ether.

by Grant on Sep 22, 2007 1:28 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Pollyanna
Wilson does seem like a perfect target for Sabean and his buy high mentality.  That said, I think we are looking at another year of Omar since he fits right in with Sabean's speed and defense philosophy.

Any chance of a ALfonzo/Finley deal involving Durham and Sexson? Or are the M's content with Jose Lopez at second?

Adopted Giant Brian Wilson: Welcome Back!

by sfgreg on Sep 22, 2007 1:45 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Pollyanna
This is the smartest thing I've seen in the thread. It won't necessarily be for Sexson but I could see Durham moving in this kind of swap of disappointments. As for the rest, you can't make gold out of dross, which is what the free agent pool looks like this year once the people who wouldn't dream of coming (ARod, for one) are stripped out. Whoever we get, we will overspend. I think the best player who might come would be Hunter, which is not the position we really need help.
Trades are crap shoot -- I certainly think the two this year worked in our favor -- so we can't project there. We will rise or fall on surprises coming out of the farm system.

by NearestNorwich on Sep 22, 2007 4:29 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Pollyanna
I think you can make gold out of straw, though. Or, well, some creepy guy can do it for you at a price. First child, second child, whatever... just adopt that one and the joke's on him!
Dave Righetti: You don't know him. / Read My Blog, Because I Write It

by howtheyscored on Sep 23, 2007 9:42 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Pollyanna
Obviously, it all hinges on Sabean's evaluation of Wilson.  I'm not quite as pessimistic as you, but we shall see.
The Maharajai steals at will (plus he's not Matt Morris).

by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Sep 22, 2007 1:46 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Pollyanna
Perhaps the Giants taking on Wilson's contract was the back room deal that Littlefield agreed to when he took on Morris' contract.
Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???

by oldrips on Sep 22, 2007 5:43 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Pollyanna
I hope that's true because now that Littlefield's gone, there's no reason that Sabean would have to honor such an agreement.
The Maharajai steals at will (plus he's not Matt Morris).

by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Sep 22, 2007 6:31 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Pollyanna
I won't defend Sabean, as I hated the message that was given in that press conference too (haven't listened to whole conference yet, basing on media accounts).  

What I'm HOPING for is that Sabean likes to keep things under the vest usually and not tip his hand.  So he usually says the usual bland cliches a GM says when he doesn't want to really say much of anything.

Plus, of course it's doubtful the Giants can get someone like A-Rod, but it doesn't mean that they can't or won't try.  It's not like anybody saw the Barry Zito signing happening either or the Giants telegraphing such a move.  

But if the Giants sign a bunch of mediocrities again to fill the lineup - and that's the awful implication of them saying that they are looking to the free agent market and want to be at the $90-95M payroll range and want to spread the money around and not on one player - then my confidence in Sabean would take a huge dip and I'm not sure it will ever recover.

"I'm a Giant now... I like watching the ball get up there" - Wendell Fairley "I'm really proud to be on this team." - Nate Schierholtz

by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Sep 22, 2007 1:20 PM PDT   0 recs

wow
can anybody really be more pessimistic than Grant right now? Its painful how cynical this site has become. Nbody give credit to Sabean for rebuilding our ENTIRE pitching staff. He's an idiot, he cannot run a team.
I understand this has been a painful year and the team has struggled, a terrible team at that. To just assume we are going to trade young guys to take on monster contracts like Sexson's and sign guys like lowell is overwhelmingly bearish.
Before you pronounce next season a failure brought on by terrible signings and trades can we please finish this season? Can we please let the offseason play itself out?
This site turned into a self pity forum almost overnight.
The Giants CAN compete next year around our pitching. Yes we have had problems closing games this year! yes we have failed to do the little things. That has been a huge part of our failure this year.to just blame it on lack of runs is crazy.
I nominate Common Sense as the new GM of the San Francisco Giants.

by fanofvanlandingham on Sep 22, 2007 1:29 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: wow
Good players tend to do "the little things" better than mediocre/bad players.

In my opinion, to NOT blame our failure this year on lack of runs is just plain crazy.  All of our other team stats are well within the range of acceptability.

The Maharajai steals at will (plus he's not Matt Morris).

by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Sep 22, 2007 1:36 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: wow
"the little things" are a red herring.

ALL of our problems would be fixed if we were just a mediocre offense (say 8-10th in runs scored) instead of a mind-bogglingly awful one (15th).

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Sep 22, 2007 1:47 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

OPS+ of 87
last in the NL, 2nd last in MLB; only the Royals are worse. Yup, it's the little things.

Also, why haven't the Giants been able to compete with pitching THIS year?

by rfloh on Sep 22, 2007 2:01 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: wow
That has been a huge part of our failure this year.to just blame it on lack of runs is crazy.

No, the failure of the Giants this season is due almost completely to their lack of scoring. It's not crazy. The Giants are 11th in the NL in bullpen ERA, but the league average ERA is 4.03; the Giants' bullpen is at 4.07.

It looks like the worst bullpen in the world because when they give up the fourth and fifth runs in a game, that's usually a loss for the Giants. When the Phillies' bullpen gives up the fourth and fifth runs in a game, it usually means the game's a little closer.

This team is 8th in all of baseball in ERA, and they're in the running for the worst record in baseball. The Giants have the 3rd-best starting ERA in baseball, yet they're in the running for the worst record in baseball. The offense is to blame for about 90% of this mess, and the bullpen picks up the slack.

by Grant on Sep 22, 2007 2:10 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: wow
the thing is Sabean still doesnt get it..he seems to think that he was let down by veteran players who
"underperformed"- (only Durham and Zito disappointed
to any great degree)..wasnt this team picked for last place or close to last place by many/most prognosticators??  Sabean acts like it was a fringe player here or there that could have put them in the hunt, if not for these "underperforming veterans"..

all is not lost(yet)...if you caught his show a few weeks ago he defintitely plans on trading some of the young pitching...so when he's through with his
typical trades, THEN all will be lost...

by slojoe on Sep 22, 2007 2:34 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: wow
I see Magowan as the problem, not Sabean. It's hard to believe that the guy who was so successful in the past has suddenly become an idiot. I think Magowan has begun to interfere more and more with the team as he becomes more experienced with owning a franchise, and thinks that that makes him a solid baseball man. Magowan has made a couple of comments lately that makes it sound like he is going to butt out and let Brian do his thing, but you have to be skeptical.
Randy Messenger: "Pat Misch is going to get his first win of the season?? Not if I can help it!!!"

by rxmeister on Sep 22, 2007 3:10 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: wow
Make no mistake, this is Sabean's team.  Why would a guy with an untarnished reputation through 2004 let Magowan destroy his reputation for three years, then re-up for three more?

I don't see why it's surprising that he turned into an idiot.  His public pronouncements don't exactly display a great deal of humility, and he got wrapped up in thinking that he knew everything instead of actually trying to learn something new about evaluating players.  We see it in Ned Colletti too.

Frankly, I think we'll just see more cringe-worthy transactions from the Giants in the off-season.  The only bright side is that playing mediocre young players instead of Bonds will cost them a couple of games, and they might get the #2 pick in next year's draft.

by gdog on Sep 23, 2007 12:41 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: wow
Just because he was successful in the past doesn't mean he was smart.  In fact, there is an abundance of evidence that he was just lucky.

by zenbitz on Sep 25, 2007 10:16 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: wow
little things like getting on base, hitting homers and scoring runs.
Bonds stands alone.

by nostocksjustbonds on Sep 22, 2007 4:05 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Agree
The Giants CAN compete next year around our pitching. Yes we have had problems closing games this year! yes we have failed to do the little things. That has been a huge part of our failure this year.to just blame it on lack of runs is crazy.

by wilriv21 on Sep 22, 2007 11:20 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Agree
The "little things" sound nice in theory, but in practice power and patience kick its ass and don't apologize for it. More of that please.

Hasn't this year proven the fallacy of our pitching competing without offense to support it? No need to respond as it's a rhetorical question. The answer is yes it has.

Adopted Giant: Randy Winn. Can't wait for Zito to start Opening Day '08 so I can get a leg up on my drinking.

by Punch Rockgroin on Sep 23, 2007 2:25 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Sportsphone McCovey
We're all impatient with the Giants this time of year. And so, McHuge is no longer waiting for replies to his questions.

He's hanging up and listening to comments off the air.

by Moggeee on Sep 23, 2007 8:32 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Agree
Hasn't this year proven the fallacy of our pitching competing without offense to support it?

No. The bullpen is responsible for it all. The little things.

Seriously, though. Fallacy is the perfect word.

by Grant on Sep 23, 2007 10:37 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Pollyanna
The only way my confidence in Sabean can recover is if he realizes that the $15M savings from Bonds' salary needs to be used to raid other successful organizations for their player development people along with signing bonuses for top young talent.  Those are the only real long-term solutions to the Giants' problems.
The Maharajai steals at will (plus he's not Matt Morris).

by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Sep 22, 2007 1:31 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: Pollyanna
Yeah, If this teams sign "Proven veteran old fart" to a 3 year, $15M contract this off season, I will scream. In fact, if they give a single FA a contract longer than 1 year, Sabean ought to be fired.
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.

by Aadik on Sep 22, 2007 2:49 PM PDT   0 recs

At least in 1985...
We had something called a "Will Clark" waiting in the wings.
Like a lesbian couple that's just a little too angry, I'm still waiting for my chance at adoption.

by dangjackson on Sep 22, 2007 3:53 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: Pollyanna
I don't know whether I'm angrier at Giants' management or the Versus network right now.
The Maharajai steals at will (plus he's not Matt Morris).

by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Sep 22, 2007 4:00 PM PDT   0 recs

Let's be honest about it
We are now the Pirates. And it's going to be that way for a few years at least.

Great ballpark, shame about the team.

by Salemicus on Sep 22, 2007 7:52 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: Let's be honest about it
The Curse of The Bondsino?
Adopted Giant: Randy Winn. Can't wait for Zito to start Opening Day '08 so I can get a leg up on my drinking.

by Punch Rockgroin on Sep 22, 2007 9:17 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Tweaking
Can't say I have a ton of confidence in Brian Sabean.  I wanted him fired a long time ago.  Still, I think he might be a bit more savvy than what Grant has outlined here.  Let's take a look at how we might tweak the general idea here and get somthing a bit better.
  1.  Sexson trade.  I think this is a possibility and wouldn't be all that upset by it.  This would be a salary dump for Seattle, so the trade would almost certainly be tweaked in one of 3 possible ways:  1.  We give up only one pitcher.  2.  Seattle kicks in a substantial amount of salary(unlikely).  3.  Seattle kicks in a good prospect(how does Sexson and Balentien for Hennessey and Sosa sound?  Other possibilities would include a young pitcher like Tony Butler or Chris Tillman).  Sexson is having a terrible year, but is "only" 33 and hit 34 HR's with a .500+ SLG% as recently as last season.  I would expect some rebound, especially back in the NL.  We need a 30+ HR guy badly and Sexson is probably the most likely bet other than ARod.
  2.  I still think the Braves are going to be desperate for pitching and they have a surplus of SS's.  Sanchez' value is pretty high.  How about Sanchez alone for Yunel Escobar?
  3.  Looks like Jeff Kent may have just punched his ticket out of LA.  He has one year left on a contract whose option just vested.  How about forgetting the Sexson trade entirely and trade Brad Hennessey and Clayton Tanner to the Dodgers for Kent and Nomar?  Kent plays 1B for us for one year and Nomar plays 3B.  
  4.  Don't see how to wiggle out of signing Torii Hunter.  That would be a terrible deal and one that Sabean/Magowan are likely to make.  In the short term, I wouldn't mind an OF of Roberts/Davis, Winn and Hunter, with Lewis as the #5 OF and Nate back in Fresno, but the back end would just kill us.
  5.  The bullpen looks like it might be an upgrade.  Go for it!

by DrBGiantsfan on Sep 22, 2007 10:22 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: Tweaking
I was with you up until #3....if the schmuck is back
i will jump on the first plane to the bay and kill Sabean in his sleep.

by Cookyman on Sep 23, 2007 6:41 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Bad Idea?
Yeah, I thought that one might get some juices flowing.  Probably a bad idea.  I would only do that if we can't find some near MLB ready prospects to trade for at those positions.  The thing about Kent and Nomar is there is no long term commitment there if we can stand them for 1-2 years and they aren't blocking someone younger.  Yeah, probably not my best idea.

by DrBGiantsfan on Sep 23, 2007 7:19 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

A Couple More Ideas
Cleveland is a team that I think may want to shore up the back end of its rotation or bullpen in the offseason.  Asdrubal Cabrera may be beyond reach now, but what about a Hennessey/Tanner trade for Ryan Mulhern and Andy Marte?

KC needs pitching badly.  They have a huge stockpile of AAAA slugging first base types:  Craig Brazell, Ryan Shealy, Justin Huber.  They just added Wes Bankston to the mix.  I don't know if any of those are 6 year FA, but next year's Jack Cust may be hidden in there somewhere.  If not, one of those guys could probably be obtained for a Hennessey or a Pat Misch alone.

by DrBGiantsfan on Sep 23, 2007 9:44 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: A Couple More Ideas
Marte seems like the kind of guy you can get for free, with a little patience.
there is no pain greater than being behind the Rockies in the standings

by oldjacket on Sep 23, 2007 12:25 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Tweaking
I'm actually with you on Sexson. On a one-year deal, with no reasonable options, Sexson would be a good, non-prospect-blocking gamble at some power. I would just hope that we would come free, and not at the expense of Sosa or even Hennessey.

I'm also with you on Sanchez to the Braves in some capacity, especially for Escobar. I'm not that big on Escobar, but I'm less than convinced about Sanchez ever being more than a reliever.

Bad Dr., though, with Kent and Nomar. Bad! Bad!

And Linebrink is probably broken, but he's in that Armando-seat from 2003, where he's the only name available. Someone's going to regret Linebrink.

by Grant on Sep 23, 2007 10:34 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Bad Dr.
LOL!  I already admitted that is probably not my best idea ever.

by DrBGiantsfan on Sep 23, 2007 1:47 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Tweaking
Why in the world would the Giants want to acquire any players over 30?  By the time the Giants are good again, those guys would mostly be old.

by sharksrog on Sep 24, 2007 11:45 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Tweaking
Because not everyone agrees it's going to be four or five years or more before the Giants are good again.
SJ Giants, 2007 Cal League champs! Couldn't have done it without the All-Father.

by EliminateMe on Sep 24, 2007 1:53 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Pollyanna
This post brings up what really bothers me about Bonds leaving. It's not so much that Barry will be gone. I can accept and respect that decision by itself.

What I'm really afraid of is that Barry's leaving will clear the way for some really bad decisions, like getting Torii Hunter or Andruw Jones.

I would feel so much better if someone other than Sabean were in charge.

by Dan from NM on Sep 23, 2007 10:50 AM PDT   0 recs

ANDRUW JONES!!!1!1!!!
Listen, we're looking to rebuild and we're lacking pretty much the only draw to our stadium now that we're so terrible.

I get a really strong feeling that since Andruw Jones is having such a terrible year, there's no way Scott Boras will allow him to sign for a multiyear deal anywhere until he can reestablish himself or at least put up better numbers.  Throw in the $20 million or whatever to sign him, let him play here for a season.  If we tank, we can deal him off at the deadline.  If we keep him, we offer him arbitration (once again, Boras won't let it happen), some other team signs him to a huge contract, and we get two compensatory picks for him.

At least, that's what I'm hoping.  And this probably would never work.

Brian Anderson: converting saves and dominating as best he can.

by Anticon23 on Sep 23, 2007 11:26 AM PDT   0 recs

Re: Pollyanna
I was thinking that if you replace "Wilson, Sexson, Lowell and Hunter" with "ARod, Burrell and Tejada", the team would be more fun to watch and probably be better than the 2007 Giants.

I still think an outfield of Winn, Roberts/Davis, Schierholtz and Lewis would be a nice advantage for the pitching staff.

C - Molina
1B - Burrell
2B - Frandsen
SS - Tejada
3B - Arod
LF - Winn/Roberts
CF - Roberts/Davis
RF - Schierholtz/Lewis

I'd look forward to seeing how that team does.

Attention all cars: Be on the look-out for Ryan Klesko's missing power.

by Goofus on Sep 23, 2007 1:20 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: Pollyanna
I don't think we can afford to add the salries of all three of Burell, Tejada, and A-Rod.  We can afford two but not three.  We could though afford Burrell, Tejada, and Lowell.  Salary aside, I do not like the idea of giving up as much pitching as I think we would have to give up to get Burrell and Tejada.  I also think that Burrell has played too well this year for Philly to still be wanting to trade him.

by giantsrainman on Sep 23, 2007 2:06 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Pollyanna
Goofus,

You are though on the right track with not getting any more outfielders.  Outfield is really the only place where we have a shot to develope inhouse impact bats.  We are letting Barry go to give ABs to these prospects.  It would be counter productive to then go out an sign an outfield bat to now block these prospects.

by giantsrainman on Sep 23, 2007 2:09 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Pollyanna
"We are letting Barry go to give ABs to these prospects."

You have got to be frakkin kidding me. We are letting barry go to give at bats to a bunch of prospects we dont think will amount to anything. On top of that we are letting the best hitter in the NL go over winn and roberts.

by covenant on Sep 26, 2007 5:02 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Adam Dunn?
What about trading a pitcher or two for Adam Dunn and have him play 1B? Can he play 1B?

by DrBGiantsfan on Sep 23, 2007 9:58 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: Adam Dunn?
Adam Dunn gets full no-trade protection when/if the Reds pick up his option.

If they don't, I wouldn't mind the Giants signing him.

Steve Kline: Pretty okay, but only on a whole season basis and not based on what he's doing now.

by groug on Sep 23, 2007 10:04 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Adam Dunn?
They will either trade him or pick up the option.  You don't let a player like that just walk away.

by DrBGiantsfan on Sep 23, 2007 10:46 PM PDT to parent