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minor lines, 8/8/07

Tiny by steve S on

AAA: Fresno defeated New Orleans 7-0

Fresno: LF Brian Horwitz: 2 for 4
Fresno: CF Fred Lewis: 2 for 3, HR, BB, GiDP
Fresno: P Matt Kinney: 2 for 3, SO

Fresno: RHP Matt Kinney: 6.1 IP, 6 H, 0 R, 0 ER, 2 BB, 3 K, 0 HR
Fresno: RHP Scott Munter: 1.2 IP, 1 H, 0 R, 0 ER, 1 BB, 1 K, 0 HR
Fresno: RHP Tyler Walker: 1.0 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 0 ER, 0 BB, 0 K, 0 HR

Lewis connected for a HR in his first PCL game since late June.  Also with two hits each were Horwitz and Kinney, raising their respective AVGs to .327 and .250.

Kinney, Munter and Walker combined for a shutout.  Kinney lowered his ERA from 4.26, which was already the best ERA among the Grizzlies starters, to 4.06.  Munter stranded two inherited runners.  Walker's 12th appearance with the Grizzlies was the first time he had not allowed a hit.

AA: Connecticut defeat Akron 3-2 (13 innings)

Connecticut: RF John Bowker: 4 for 6
Connecticut: 2B Julio Cordido: 3 for 6

Connecticut: RHP Brooks McNiven: 5.0 IP, 7 H, 2 R, 2 ER, 1 BB, 3 K, 0 HR
Connecticut: RHP Justin Hedrick: 2.1 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 0 ER, 2 BB, 1 K, 0 HR--1 PO
Connecticut: RHP Billy Sadler: 1.2 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 0 ER, 1 BB, 2 K, 0 HR
Connecticut: RHP Osiris Matos: 2.0 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 0 ER, 0 BB, 1 K, 0 HR
Connecticut: RHP Kelvin Pichardo: 1.1 IP, 1 H, 0 R, 0 ER, 1 BB, 0 K, 0 HR
Connecticut: RHP Brian Anderson: 0.2 IP, 1 H, 0 R, 0 ER, 0 BB, 1 K, 0 HR
Akron: LHP Chuck Lofgren: 6.0 IP, 7 H, 2 R, 2 ER, 3 BB, 5 K, 0 HR--2 HB

Bowker and Cordido accounted for 7 of the Defenders' 13 hits.  They raised their respective AVGs to .296 and .259.

McNiven's ERA rose just above 3.00.  Five Defenders relievers, all of whom are arguably among the Giants top forty prospects, combined for eight shutout innings.  Hedrick continues to walk a lot of batters, but it does not show up in his ERA it seems.  Sadler made his third appearance since his demotion, and he has not allowed a run in that time.  Matos saw his ERA dip below 3.00.  Pichardo's strikeout rate has definitely dropped since his promotion nearly a month ago.  Anderson picked up his 25th save.  Lofgren, perhaps the Indians top prospect, has pitched better than his 4.22 ERA would indicate as he has struggled with runners in scoring position.

A+: San Jose lost to Stockton 6-2

San Jose: SS Brian Bocock: 1 for 4, HR, 2 SO
San Jose: 3B David Maroul: 1 for 3, HR, 2 SO
San Jose: LF Eddy Martinez-Esteve: 1 for 3, BB
Stockton: CF Jonathan Zeringue: 2 for 3, HR, 2B, HBP, SO

San Jose: LHP Paul Oseguera: 5.0+ IP, 7 H, 6 R, 5 ER, 2 BB, 5 K, 1 HR
Stockton: RHP Andrew Bailey: 7.0 IP, 2 H, 0 R, 0 ER, 2 BB, 7 K, 0 HR

Maorul and Bocock connected for their 20th and 4th HRs this year.  In his second game with San Jose, EME reached base twice.  Zerigue, who started the year with the D'backs' double-A affiliate before joining the A's high-A affiliate, had a big game as he continues to dominate the Cal League.  The 24-year-old entered the night hitting .311/.385/.588 in 119 AB.

Oseguera's ERA rose to 3.23.  He failed to retire any of the three batters he faced in the 6th inning.  For the second straight night, the Giants were shut out by a Stockton starter.  Bailey, who had a 2.02 ERA last summer in the NWL, lowered his ERA nearly a full run in his 7th Cal League start.

A-: Augusta lost to Lakewood 13-1

Augusta: 3B Ryan Rohlinger: 2 for 4

Augusta: LHP Benjamin Snyder: 4.0 IP, 7 H, 5 R, 3 ER, 0 BB, 3 K, 0 HR--1 E
Augusta: RHP Paul Lussier: 0.2 IP, 6 H, 3 R, 3 ER, 1 BB, 1 K, 0 HR--1 WP
Augusta: RHP Adam Ortiz-Jusino: 2.1 IP, 1 H, 0 R, 0 ER, 0 BB, 0 K, 0 HR
Augusta: RHP Craig Whitaker: 0.2 IP, 5 H, 5 R, 3 ER, 2 BB, 1 K, 0 HR

Rohlinger, who had two of the GreenJackets' six hits, raised his AVG to .241.

Snyder had seemed to be on a roll this summer, but now nearly a third of the earned runs he has allowed this season (10 of 31) have come in his last four starts, raising his ERA to 2.16.  Lussier and Whitaker saw their ERAs rise to 4.50 and 6.75, respectively.  Ortiz-Jusino had his longest appearance of the year.  He retired seven of eight batters faced and stranded all three inherited runners.

ssA: Salem-Keizer defeated Boise 5-0

Salem-Keizer: 2B Brock Bond: 1 for 3, 2 BB, E
Salem-Keizer: 3B Andrew Davis: 3 for 4, 2B, BB
Salem-Keizer: RF Sean Van Elderen: 1 for 2, 2B, 3 BB
Salem-Keizer: SS Sharlon Schoop: 2 for 3, 2 2B, BB, IBB, SO

Salem-Keizer: RHP T.J. Brewer: 6.0 IP, 3 H, 0 R, 0 ER, 1 BB, 6 K, 0 HR--1 WP
Salem-Keizer: LHP Joe Paterson: 1.0 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 0 ER, 0 BB, 2 K, 0 HR
Salem-Keizer: RHP Timothy Egart: 1.0 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 0 ER, 0 BB, 3 K, 0 HR

Schoop had perhaps his best game as a Volcano.  He doubled his doubles total, which is not a good thing this late in the season.  Davis raised his AVG to .279.  Bond continues to get on base at better than a .500 clip.  Van Elderen had his 19th double.  He also had three walks, which seems rather surprising for someone who entered the night with a BB/AB ratio below 5%.  

Brewer had the best start of his pro career, including season highs in K and IP.  He tied a season-low in hits allowed.  In two perfect innings, Paterson and Egart struck out all but one of the batters they faced.

R: Giants defeated Padres 10-2

Scottsdale: SS Charlie Culberson: 2 for 5, 2B, SO, GiDP, E
Scottsdale: 2B Nick Noonan: 2 for 5, 2 2B
Scottsdale: 1B Andy D'alessio: 1 for 3, HR, BB
Scottsdale: 3B Angel Villalona: 0 for 4, SO

Scottsdale: RHP Lars Knepper: 5.0 IP, 4 H, 1 R, 1 ER, 1 BB, 4 K, 0 HR
Scottsdale: LHP Gregorio Geronimo: 1.0 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 0 ER, 0 BB, 3 K, 0 HR

Two first round supplemental picks, Noonan and Culberson, were the only Scottsdale hitters with multiple hits, raising their respective AVGs to .304 and .259.  Culberson committed his 12th error in 31 games.  D'allesio, one of three Giants to go deep for a HR, raised his league-leading total to 10 HRs.

Knepper picked up his first win as he lowered his ERA to 2.12.  The 20-year-old Geronimo had his best appearance of the year when he struck out the side in the 6th inning.  He had allowed at least one baserunner in his previous ten appearances this year.

DSL: Giants lost to Royals 2-0 (7 innings)
(completed early due to rain)

Giants: CF Carlos Willoughby: 1 for 2
Giants: LHP Franklin Noel: 4.0 IP, 6 H, 1 R, 1 ER, 0 BB, 4 K, 0 HR

The 18-year-old Willoughby had the team's only hit, raising his AVG above .300.  The 18-year-old Noel, making just his second start among 22 appearances, now has 42 H, 23 BB and 52 K in 48.0 IP with a 3.00 ERA.

And here is an updated version of my Future Forty, my take on the Giants top prospects:

  1. RF Nate Schierholtz
  2. 3B Angel Villalona
  3. RHP Henry Sosa
  4. RHP Timothy Alderson
  5. 2B Nicholas Noonan
  6. LHP Clayton Tanner
  7. SS Emmanuel Burriss
  8. LHP Patrick Misch
  9. RHP Brian Wilson
  10. LF John Bowker
  11. LF Eddy Martinez-Esteve
  12. CF Eugenio Velez
  13. LHP Benjamin Snyder
  14. RF Dan Ortmeier
  15. SS Sharlon Schoop
  16. SS Charles Culberson
  17. LF Benj Copeland
  18. C Jackson Williams
  19. RHP Billy Sadler
  20. SS Brian Bocock
  21. LHP Erick Threets
  22. RHP Osiris Matos
  23. 1B Travis Ishikawa
  24. CF Clay Timpner
  25. RF Brian Horwitz
  26. 2B Marcus Sanders
  27. CF Michael McBryde
  28. RHP Kelvin Pichardo
  29. RHP Justin Hedrick
  30. LHP Paul Oseguera
  31. RHP Merkin Valdez
  32. RHP Waldis Joaquin
  33. LHP Alexander Hinshaw
  34. LHP David Quinowski
  35. RHP Brian Anderson
  36. RHP Taylor Wilding
  37. RHP Kevin Pucetas
  38. RHP Chris Begg
  39. C Pablo Sandoval
  40. OF Angel Joseph

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

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Re: minor lines, 8/8/07
does anyone else race to the bottom of these daily notes looking at how villalona did??

random notes/observations:

  • i feel bad for fred lewis
  • craig whitaker is looking more and more like a busted first round draft pick
  • will they keep noonan in rookie ball all year or will they give him a late promotion??
Sabean stop giving away our first round draft picks!!

by z4 landshark @ McCovey Chronicles on Aug 8, 2007 11:13 PM PDT reply actions  

Re: minor lines, 8/8/07
The AZL is the first league to end its regular season.  A year ago, it seemed like about eight members of the AZL were promoted to different locations for the final week for the other clubs.  I would not be surprised to see that again, where Noonan could head to the NWL.

by steve S on Aug 8, 2007 11:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: minor lines, 8/8/07
Heh, I've been scrolling to the bottom for Villalona's line too.  The problem is that Culberson keeps grabbing my eye with his daily lines.

Yeah, it was really fair to send Freddie down, but I suspect that's the last time he'll be there.  

by Skaldheim on Aug 9, 2007 8:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

I do the daily Villalona scroll
Sad that I'll probably be doing it for several years.
***

Succumb to the Enchanted t-shirt! Adopted dad of Minor Izzy

by hairball on Aug 9, 2007 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

Re: minor lines, 8/8/07
That is a sad sad farm system. There's one prospect who might do something, 2 guys who might be league average, and a couple of promising arms.
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.

by Aadik on Aug 8, 2007 11:29 PM PDT reply actions  

Re: minor lines, 8/8/07
Only one hitter who might do something?  That seems pretty pessimistic to me.  In your view, is that Schierholtz, Villalona, Noonan or someone else?

by steve S on Aug 9, 2007 12:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

Re: minor lines, 8/8/07
Villanova - I like Nate, but I don't he's going to be more than an average RF (again, that would be better than Randy Winn, so its still an improvement). Given the Giants inability to produce even average hitters, that's still a good thing.
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.

by Aadik on Aug 9, 2007 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'm calling BS
You must be one of those people who gets off on being pessimistic.

There are several hitting prospects with upside in that list, but where I think you really miss the mark is on the pitchers. A couple promising arms? Many systems would kill for the young pitching depth that we have, not including the recent spate of graduates, that would seem to indicate pretty good handling of said prospects as well.

***

Succumb to the Enchanted t-shirt! Adopted dad of Minor Izzy

by hairball on Aug 9, 2007 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions  

No, he's not all that pessimistic
Only 7 pitchers can crack the top 20 of a crappy positional player system according to steve s rankings. Two are relievers (which aren't all that useful really) and one may not make it as a starter (Alderson) according to many publications. Misch is already up here and may stay, so he'll probably lose prospect status soon enough. The other three are all low A arms, which while dominating now, is still low A ball and are simply promising at this point.

by awesomer @ McCovey Chronicles on Aug 9, 2007 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

Re: No, he's not all that pessimistic
"According to steve s rankings"--One caveat I would want to make is that we are getting to that point of the season where we are getting further and further away from the last good scouting reports on many of the above players.  That decreases the precision of this list.  This reflects what I know right now, or what I think I know, and there are probably several large inaccuracies in my knowledge, which will immediately become evident when reading the next edition of the Prospect Handbook, for example.  (For example, prior to the last Handbook, did anyone have Bocock even in contention for their top prospects list?)

I do think that this is about the weakest this farm system has ever been in starting pitcher candidates this decade, although maybe that looks better once Bumgarner signs.  How many pitchers on this list have a good chance to be more than a #4 starter?  I think you could make a decent argument that Sosa is the only one.

by steve S on Aug 9, 2007 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: No, he's not all that pessimistic
I agree,  but would say that's more a sympton of graduating so many SP prospects to the big leagues in a short amount of time (Cain, Lowry, Lincecum, Misch, Sanchez, Hennessy, Correia).

In fact, for all the negative talk of the Giants farm system, that is a rather impressive collection of arms to all come up in the same relative time frame.

by mxmob33 on Aug 9, 2007 9:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: minor lines, 8/8/07
Henry Sosa -- #3 with a bullet!
Jesse Foppert: Welcome home, my son. And meet your adopted brother, Kelvin Pichardo. He's from the Dominican Republic.

by leftymalo on Aug 8, 2007 11:30 PM PDT reply actions  

Re: minor lines, 8/8/07
I pretty much agree with your top 40, your missing Jose Valdez, who's having a tough year but still has a lot of potential I think, Also I think Copeland and Sandoval should be higher on the list.

by Keenlow on Aug 8, 2007 11:55 PM PDT reply actions  

Re: minor lines, 8/8/07
I don't disagree on Jose Valdez's potential.  But his odds of reaching it seem pretty low.  For discussion, is Valdez's potential any higher than Craig Whitaker's?

I think I'm comfortable with where I have Copeland and Sandoval.  But I kinda wish I had moved Ortmeier lower by several spots, and that would move Copeland up one spot.

by steve S on Aug 9, 2007 12:01 AM PDT up reply actions  

Re: minor lines, 8/8/07
I don't quite understand why his odds are in better or worse than someone like Villalona's in terms of reaching one's "full potential". He's young, 19, and he's already 6' 7''. He has the physical ability and the time to grow as a ballplayer. He obviously needs to figure out how to handle his big fastball and develop some off speed stuff, but the potential is there, which is all you can really ask of a young, raw prospect.

Whitaker is about 4 years older and has a laundry list of injuries. At this point I would say Valdez has a better chance of reaching his potential simply because he has more time to do so.

by Keenlow on Aug 9, 2007 1:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

Re: minor lines, 8/8/07
I'm also surprised how low Sandoval is, not that he's both catching and hitting again at a high level and young age. Would love to hear your thoughts on why. I'd probably have him in the early teens in the Ortmeier/Schoop range.

The rest of the list is pretty on with my thoughts. This is probably a good time to thank you again for doing these daily reports.

by Birdman @ McCovey Chronicles on Aug 9, 2007 12:09 AM PDT reply actions  

Re: minor lines, 8/8/07
...NOW that he's catching and...

by Birdman @ McCovey Chronicles on Aug 9, 2007 12:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

Re: minor lines, 8/8/07
Maybe I am still holding Sandoval's 2006 performance against him to a large degree.  Can you look at his 2006 and 2007 stats and get any sense for what kind of hitter he is?  Last year he showed no power.  It's kinda shocking when your SLG is lower than your AVG from the previous year.  Then the power returns this year when he starts playing a much more difficult defensive position?  I am also holding the poor OBP against him.  Is there any everyday player currently active in MLB who had a sub-.300 OBP in a full-season in high-A ball?

That said, it's not like I am that big of a fan of the ten names I listed ahead of him, so I would have little issue with ranking him ten spots higher.

by steve S on Aug 9, 2007 9:01 AM PDT up reply actions  

Re: minor lines, 8/8/07
I'd have to agree with you Steve that's it's virtually impossible to get a read on who Sandoval is as a hitter at this point (except that he's a free swinger).  However, in answer to your question, just taking a couple of random stabs I did find two pretty good players who fit your description. Kenny Lofton's first year in pro ball he put up a .286 in the NYP rookie league. And Sammy Sosa once posted a .282 OBP in the High A FSL. So that would argue that Sandoval's age is still weighing in his favor to improve.

But to me, the big argument for moving him up the list is his move back to catcher, a position which is absolutely the least stocked in baseball at both the major and minor league levels.  I would guess the majority (and maybe the vast majority) of organizations don't have anybody above a C or C- level prospect at catcher. So IF Sandoval can stick there and IF (as he was once rumored to be) his D is above average at the position, then we have to look at his offensive contribution through that lens.  The Giants originally moved him off Catcher because they hoped it would unleash his offensive potential.  That experiment clearly failed. But perhaps returning him to the position he's comfortable with will provide happier returns.

by Roger on Aug 9, 2007 9:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

Re: minor lines, 8/8/07
I think Witter deserves a place on the list
The Cowart Report. Adam Cowart has been adopted

by April3rdLifeBegins on Aug 9, 2007 12:14 AM PDT reply actions  

Re: minor lines, 8/8/07
Wow Im happy to see Bowker crack your top 10, I thought the guy is having a great year, and think he is a pretty decent prospect.

What do you Think of Andy Delasso. The guy is tearing teh cover off the ball in AZL with 10 jacks. Will he be in Augusta next year, maybe San Jose?

Forget trading the old guys, Sabean must go first!!!!

by ramirez415 on Aug 9, 2007 1:01 AM PDT reply actions  

Re: minor lines, 8/8/07
I think I am surprised I ranked Bowker that high, but I didn't like the alternatives better.

I'd have a very hard time ranking a college player in the AZL who was not drafted in the first five rounds in my top 40 list at this juncture.  I'm sticking with my rule of thumb: If you're old enough to drink, your AZL stats are meaningless.

I would be surprised if D'alessio is in San Jose next year.  It would seem to me that Brett Pill has done more to earn that spot.  Arguably, Chad Rothford has outperformed D'alessio too.

by steve S on Aug 9, 2007 9:06 AM PDT up reply actions  

Re: minor lines, 8/8/07
FYI-

Lewis' HR was an inside the park job. Hit it to left center and the outfielder dove, missed, and the ball kicked. He scored easilly, cruising across the plate standing up. I think he played last night also, but looked a lot more intense and into the game today.

by Brags on Aug 9, 2007 1:04 AM PDT reply actions  

Re: minor lines, 8/8/07
I'd comment on D'Alessio not being in the Top 40, but I know where that would go (age vs. level primarily, and mix in a low average for his level).

I will say that he is the player that shocks me most having not been moved up.

SFDugout.com - Returning Offseason 2007

by BruteSentiment on Aug 9, 2007 1:08 AM PDT reply actions  

Re: minor lines, 8/8/07
Yeah, I don't really see what he could learn or prove by staying in rookie ball.
Steve Kline: He's pretty okay!

by groug on Aug 9, 2007 1:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

Re: minor lines, 8/8/07
EME hasn't done anything this year to be the #11 prospect. What's the reasoning behind that placement, particularly with similar disappointment TI being put at #23?
Congrats, Barry. You're the best there ever was in this game.

by nostocksjustbonds on Aug 9, 2007 1:35 AM PDT reply actions  

Re: minor lines, 8/8/07
The list is about potential, not about 2007 performance, although that does say something about potential.  I think EME's potential is better than those on the list below him.  His odds of achieving some degree of that potential appear to be declining.

I would say something similar about Ishikawa.  I asked myself if I thought his ceiling had gone down.  I don't think so, although his odds of reaching that ceiling have decreased.  So I left him ranked ahead of guys whose ceiling I perceive to be bench players.

by steve S on Aug 9, 2007 9:12 AM PDT up reply actions  

Re: minor lines, 8/8/07
Thank you.
Congrats, Barry. You're the best there ever was in this game.

by nostocksjustbonds on Aug 9, 2007 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

Re: minor lines, 8/8/07
Wow, get past 5 and that list gets ugly in a hurry, don't it?  I think personally I'd have to move Nick down to 3, and bump Velez up into the Top 10, and Sandoval up about 10 spots.  Otherwise it seems mostly in line with my thinking.

But I do have one question: what in your mind creates the great disparity between Burriss and Bocock?  Both are reputed to be great playmakers with the glove and have a lot of work to be done to make them offensively viable.

On the season, here are their cumulative numbers:
Burriss .265/.325/.308
Bocock .255/.322/.363

Pretty similar and that's with, at this point, Bocock having spent about 2/3 of the season at the higher level and Burris 2/3 at the lower level.  Burriss is about to reach 60 SB for the season, but Bocock has a considerable (relatively speaking) more pop, with 35 XBH on the season.

What is separating these two for you enough to put one at 7 and one at 20?

by Roger on Aug 9, 2007 5:57 AM PDT reply actions  

Re: minor lines, 8/8/07
About two weeks ago, Velez would have been several spots higher.  His slump the past four weeks or so knocked him back down several spots for me.

You make a good argument about Burriss vs Bocock.  Maybe I am just a Burriss apologist, but I am pretty much giving him a pass for his horrible first six weeks of the season.  Burriss is among the league leaders in AVG in a pitcher-friendly park in a pitcher-friendly league.

Bocock has shown more pop.  He has also shown a lot more strikeouts.  I could be wrong, but my feeling is that the holes in his approach are likely to get exploited at the next level.  Arguably, they are already exploited at this level.

by steve S on Aug 9, 2007 9:17 AM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Where's Cowart?
Several spots behind Pucetas, which was not enough to make the list.

by steve S on Aug 9, 2007 9:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

for that matter..
...I guess I don't need to ask where Romo is...
Your 2012 NL ERA champion: Sergio Romo

by Lyle @ McCovey Chronicles on Aug 9, 2007 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: minor lines, 8/8/07
Thanks for the future forty, Steve. Looking at these lists always helps to clarify my thoughts about the farm system.

Here's another question along the lines of Roger's Burriss/Bocock comparison: what separates Nate Schierholtz and Pat Misch? To my eye, their reasonable ceilings are pretty comparable (Noah Lowry or Jamie Moyer for Misch, Garret Anderson or Geoff Jenkins for Schierholtz). Schierholtz is younger, but he also has further to go. Each has had a breakthrough year at AAA, and each has performed very well in a brief big-league callup. I just wonder whether we've underrated Misch (as we underrated Lowry) because he doesn't have one particular flashy talent.

Also, I'm suprised not to see Jesse English on the list. What do we make of him at this point? He's been around forever, but has thrown fewer than 170 innings as a pro. On the other hand, he's still 22, and has been a strikeout machine at every step.

by Evan on Aug 9, 2007 7:52 AM PDT reply actions  

Re: minor lines, 8/8/07
You make a good argument for Misch.  I was surprised he ended up as high on the list as he did.  It seems perhaps he should have been higher.  I guess I have never been quite as sold on Misch as others have been, going back to breakout season in 2004.  

(Some may remember an old conversation between various Giants bloggers heading in the 2005 season comparing Misch and Hennessey.  Without looking it up, my recollection is that I was the primary apologist for why Hennessey was the better prospect.  I think I looked pretty good on that score until this year, but maybe the others will look better from 2008 onward.)

I thought about Jesse English.  Ultimately I decided that one great month in the NWL was not enough to make up for multiple years of reports about questionable makeup.  If he keeps it up, maybe two greats months in the NWL will make me feel differently.

Incidentally, I am planning to take in a couple Volcanoes games before the end of the season, so maybe I will get to see him in person.  I thought about going up there in mid-July, but there are so few prospects on the team this year, that it just didn't quite seem worth it.

by steve S on Aug 9, 2007 9:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

Re: minor lines, 8/8/07
I know D'allesio is older, but he was one of the more proficient college hitters and this is his first year in pro-ball, so I think its fitting that he is in the AZL. If he is struggling in the minors next year, maybe then we can write him off. BUT... He is absolutely mashing, leading the league in RBI (35), HR (10), SLG (.592), with a .285 batting average. He is also in the top 10 in most of the other hitting categories. I think we might want to see him at a higher level before we start writing him off.
Lets just bring up the AZL Giants. All of them.

by AngelintheInfield on Aug 9, 2007 8:18 AM PDT reply actions  

Re: minor lines, 8/8/07
anyone heard an update on 22yo Kelyn Acosta

by melottfan on Aug 9, 2007 8:58 AM PDT reply actions  

Re: minor lines, 8/8/07
I missed when EME moved up to SJ. Good to see him getting it together. I just hope it lasts.
Strikeouts are boring. Besides that, they're fascist. Not boring: Emmanuel Burriss. Not facist: THE RETURN OF SF Dugout

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Aug 9, 2007 10:10 AM PDT reply actions  

Re: minor lines, 8/8/07
nice list, and obviously prospects are what get us excited these days.
I would push up Timp and Horwitz, who aren't that old and have succeeded in Fresno, over Bowker, Ort, and Ishi. The low level flame throwers are still our only strength.  We'll know more about Sandoval later, but his hitting keeps improving.

prospecthound sometimes runs separate pitchers and hitters lists. If we listed only power hitters--those likely to ever hit, say, 25 HR in a year--it would be sparse.  AngelV is a big maybe; Nate would have to develop more power; then Copeland has potential, and we'd be lookin at Rothford and Fairly.

adopter/sponsor of "Go, Antoan" Richardson

by foothillsfan on Aug 9, 2007 1:55 PM PDT reply actions  

Re: minor lines, 8/8/07
Isn't this Snyder's first full season? He must be tired.
"But I AM a stepchild!"-Pedro Feliz

by Smotheredinhugs on Aug 9, 2007 3:02 PM PDT reply actions  

Re: minor lines, 8/8/07
Yes, Snyder was a 4th round draft pick last year.

by steve S on Aug 9, 2007 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: minor lines, 8/8/07
When does Ishikawa fall off the prospect lists?
"But I AM a stepchild!"-Pedro Feliz

by Smotheredinhugs on Aug 9, 2007 3:04 PM PDT reply actions  

Re: minor lines, 8/8/07
Uh, Steve, you are joking about Culberson and Williams, right? Even if your list is strictly based on ceilings (and my list is clearly more about likelihood of reaching the majors + ceiling), do you believe these guys project out above Matos, McBryde, Pichardo, Joaquin, Wilding, and Sandoval? (Heck, in a ceiling-only list I think I'd put Sandoval in our top ten easily). I like Witter, LaTorre, Buller, Holm, and Knoedler better than Williams - although I reserve the right to change my mind in a couple of years :)
Your 2012 NL ERA champion: Sergio Romo

by Lyle @ McCovey Chronicles on Aug 9, 2007 4:12 PM PDT reply actions  

Re: minor lines, 8/8/07
I probably gave the wrong impression earlier that this is a list based upon ceiling.  It's a list based upon making an impact at the major league level.  So the ceiling has to be high enough to make an impact, and then you factor in the likelihood.

You appear to be among those quite skeptical of Culberson and Williams.  I think they have chances to be everyday players.  Matos, Pichardo, Wilding and maybe Joaquin too are relievers at best.  

I thought I was one of the bigger McBryde fans in this forum, but he seems to lack any real approach to hitting yet.

I can't see rating LaTorre, Holm or Buller ahead of Williams.  I think a lot of people are focusing upon what he is not in their mind, i.e., worthy of a first round pick.  He's still worth an early round pick, right?  That puts him ahead of most of the others catchers you mention I should think.

by steve S on Aug 9, 2007 10:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: minor lines, 8/8/07
I was wondering what your reasoning on Williams is.  Not that I necessarily disagree, but I'd simply like to hear it rather than just see a list.

That's why I prefer reading your stuff over BP's rankings.  :)

SFDugout.com - Returning Offseason 2007

by BruteSentiment on Aug 9, 2007 11:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: minor lines, 8/8/07
Culberson's still so young that he has a lot of time to make some strides in his development, but Williams has some history and putting that together with scouting reports, I'm wouldn't say he has much of a chance to be an everyday player. I understand catching is a position where you get a lot of good glove no hit players, but I don't look at Williams and see a player with a ceiling of being a major league regular. I'd say more of a ceiling of being a backup catcher and a long way to go before even that ceiling is very likely.

by Roger on Aug 10, 2007 7:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

Re: minor lines, 8/8/07
Yea, but then all the scouting reports say he's a light-hitting catcher.

Yet he is second on a good team with 5 HR, and T-13th in the league.

Even with a .233 average, that's not light hitting, IMO.  It's possible what few scouting reports we saw (ones from BA were put together obviously hastily and after the fact) were wrong.

SFDugout.com - Returning Offseason 2007

by BruteSentiment on Aug 10, 2007 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: minor lines, 8/8/07
Still, let me connect this discussion back to my earlier post regarding Pablo Sandoval.  Before they moved him from catcher the reports were that he was a catch and throw specialist who managed staffs well, blocked the plate exceptionally, and threw out 30% of runners (according to the '05 Prospect Handbook). He was moved to 3B in a failed attempt to unlock his power potential.  If he's back as a catcher for good (and one who's now getting some that power out of his bat) then I think the comparison to Williams is in Sandoval's favor, since after all, Pablo hit .330/.333/.425 in the NWL two years ago when he was only 19, as opposed to Williams' .233/.340/.419 as a 21 year old coming out of a major college program.

by Roger on Aug 10, 2007 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: minor lines, 8/8/07
There's a fair point there, but one would be remiss to point out that Sandoval was a shipwreck the next season in Augusta, and though I heartily believe that moving positions can affect a player, I don't think it can as much as Sandoval dropped off.

Of course, a similar comparison can't be made on Williams until we see what he does in full season ball.

I don't like to make too many judgments on hitters in their first couple of months of full-season ball, because of the rather significant differences between playing college ball and pro ball (the increased schedule, the heavier wood bats, etc.).

Obviously, that is something Sandoval didn't have to go through.

What worries me more is Williams' defensive lapses, although he has seemingly gotten better in the past few weeks.

SFDugout.com - Returning Offseason 2007

by BruteSentiment on Aug 10, 2007 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: minor lines, 8/8/07
Great work, Steve, much appreciated.
  Do you think, essentially, Blackely, Palmer, Kinney have no value? won't see the bigs in a Giants uniform?

by allfrank on Aug 9, 2007 7:00 PM PDT reply actions  

Re: minor lines, 8/8/07
Kinney is just too old to be considered a prospect.  Palmer made the list once this year I think and has trended more or less in the wrong direction ever since.  I thought about Blackley, who did make BA's preseason list of the Mariners top 30 prospects.  But I just don't see enough there I like.  Is he a guy you would keep on a major league roster for more than two or three starts?  Maybe I am missing something with him, which would not surprise me, but I just don't see someone with a major league future there.

It might make sense to call up Kinney for a spot start this month, presuming the Giants have an open spot on their 40-man roster.  When you send Kinney back to the minors, who cares if you lose him on waivers?  He was going to be a minor league free agent at the end of the season anyway.

by steve S on Aug 9, 2007 10:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: minor lines, 8/8/07
BBA came in the mail yesterday

I have to say I'm liking Timpner better than in the past -- previously, I thought his upside was 4th outfielder and it would take a turn-around at the plate to do that -- plus I really haven't paid attention enough to notice him going from the low .300s to mid .300s

now that he is top 5 in the league in avg after most of the season and was again mentioned as a better defensive player, I'm thinking his upside has to be 3rd outfielder

... and rank him in the low 20s

by melottfan on Aug 10, 2007 7:23 AM PDT reply actions  

For an organization known for pitching
In the SF Top 20 there is only 7 pitching prospects. This is much lower number of pitching prospects than I would have thought or hoped for.

 

by wilriv21 on Aug 10, 2007 1:21 PM PDT reply actions  

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