Estes's Ghost: The Return
We're 1/14th through the Barry Zito contract. To put that into perspective, that's the equivalent of the first 12.5 minutes of The Godfather. That's when Michael Corleone is just arriving at the wedding. All we know is that Al Pacino is playing some sort of soldier-type; the rest of the story is completely open. So take heart, Zito-watchers. It took a lot for Michael to go from a spit-and-polish war hero to the leader of an organized crime family. There was a progression, an arc. Things happened. Nothing stayed the same. Maybe Zito still has a chance to be average or good.
Or maybe Zito will start for the Giants in a playoff game in 2013, which could be their first in 10 years. And maybe as the 82-mph fastballs are ripped past various fielders, and as eighth- and ninth-place hitters are walked on 17 pitches each, we can cut to various members of the ownership group getting pushed out or bought out. Yeah, that's the better analogy.
Barry Zito: Uh, not really. I mean, I renounce the idea of walks, but I can't really do much about the actual walks. I've been trying different things over the past few decades: meditation, computerized analysis of my motion, breathing techniques, humming "Dancing Nancies" to myself when I start my motion...nothing works. Maybe that's a good thing, though, because I had to stop throwing my curveball after '11. When I actually throw this little league fastball in the strike zone, it tends to go out faster than it went in. I should probably see about getting a second pitch soon.
Perranoski IV: Just say "I do renounce them."
Zito: I do renounce them.
So go back and revisit the Zito Worry-O-Meter here, and update your level of panic. I was at a "5"; now I'm at an "8". There's a long way to go in this contract, but the only way I could see things improving would be for Zito to magically develop pinpoint command. If Randy Johnson could do it in his late-20s, it isn't impossible. It's just not bloody likely.
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Re: Estes's Ghost: The Return
I was willing to give Zito a chance to improve, but it's just gotten worse. Rotoworld says he's given up 6 or more runs in 6 of 18 starts this season... so a third of the time, he's gone out there and just got bombed. Seriously, what the hell? I don't get how he was able to be so successful for such a long time in Oakland... his stuff is nothing special and he has no command of it.
by jponry on
Jul 9, 2007 9:33 AM PDT
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Various members of the ownership group...
by victor frankenstein on
Jul 9, 2007 5:54 PM PDT
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Re: Various members of the ownership group...
by howtheyscored on
Jul 9, 2007 6:41 PM PDT
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Re: Estes's Ghost: The Return
-He's old (27?!) and past his prime
-He misses the crazy shenanigans of those partying A's
-He misses his boyfriend Billy Beane
-He doesn't think he gets enough run support
-He fucked with his delivery over the winter and it's set him back
What do you guys think?
by tk on
Jul 9, 2007 9:48 AM PDT
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Re: Estes's Ghost: The Return
Sincerely,
The beane Counter
:-P
by Goofus on
Jul 9, 2007 2:34 PM PDT
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A hill of Beanes
by tk on
Jul 9, 2007 4:28 PM PDT
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Re: Estes's Ghost: The Return
by SF Pete on
Jul 9, 2007 9:54 AM PDT
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Re: Estes's Ghost: The Return
by Goofus on
Jul 9, 2007 2:32 PM PDT
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This is how I feel...
The die is cast , the deed is done , the man can't compete consistently at an acceptable level...and all we can effectively do about it is this:
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by victor frankenstein on
Jul 9, 2007 5:59 PM PDT
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Re: Estes's Ghost: The Return
My only hope is that the changes to his delivery over the winter, the ones that Righetti talked him out of, indicate an awareness on Zito's part that his old tricks aren't really working any more, and he needs to figure out how to add some velocity or otherwise shake things up. Maybe he can try it again this winter, and actually get some support from the organization.
by Evan on
Jul 9, 2007 9:56 AM PDT
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Re: Estes's Ghost: The Return
by Dan from NM on
Jul 9, 2007 11:14 AM PDT
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Re: Estes's Ghost: The Return
by Evan on
Jul 9, 2007 2:09 PM PDT
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Re: Estes's Ghost: The Return
by mxmob33 on
Jul 9, 2007 12:58 PM PDT
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Re: Estes's Ghost: The Return
by getnby on
Jul 9, 2007 10:05 AM PDT
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Re: Estes's Ghost: The Return
by SF Pete on
Jul 9, 2007 10:10 AM PDT
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AaaaaaaaaaaaaaaBOOM!
by EliminateMe on
Jul 9, 2007 10:55 AM PDT
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Re: Estes's Ghost: The Return
by zenbitz on
Jul 9, 2007 10:06 AM PDT
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Re: Estes's Ghost: The Return
by Lyle on
Jul 9, 2007 12:45 PM PDT
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Re: Estes's Ghost: The Return
by zenbitz on
Jul 9, 2007 10:07 AM PDT
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Re: Estes's Ghost: The Return
Anybody blaming Sabaen for this mess is blaming the wrong guy unless you want to pin the retention of Mark Sweeny and the trading of Jason Ellison as the cause of the Giants demise.
by E Ticket on
Jul 9, 2007 10:32 AM PDT
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Re: Estes's Ghost: The Return
Me too. It seems clear that Sabean was given a brief to land a big-name free agent, basically as a public-relations move.
But Sabean needs to be fired anyway. Even if you let him off the hook for the big moves (the ones that a good GM would talk his boss out of making), he has proven repeatedly that just he's a poor judge of ballplayers. Over and over again, he has passed up better, cheaper players in order to acquire dispiriting, injury-prone mediocrities.
by Evan on
Jul 9, 2007 10:57 AM PDT
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Re: Estes's Ghost: The Return
by zenbitz on
Jul 9, 2007 12:12 PM PDT
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Re: Estes's Ghost: The Return
Buster Olney: Joe: Kevin Kernan of the NY Post reported on TV the other day that he's hearing that Brian Sabean will be let go after the All-Star break. Either way, it's hard to imagine him returning for '08...
And I do realize this is ESPN quoting a guy from the NY Post.
by SF Pete on
Jul 9, 2007 12:20 PM PDT
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Re: Estes's Ghost: The Return
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on
Jul 9, 2007 12:41 PM PDT
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Re: Estes's Ghost: The Return
by getnby on
Jul 9, 2007 10:10 AM PDT
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Re: Estes's Ghost: The Return
by jponry on
Jul 9, 2007 10:13 AM PDT
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Re: Estes's Ghost: The Return
Its all mental, I think. It breaks his concentration incessantly on the mound, he loses focus right in the middle of his delivery, his mechanics are breaking down and he's routinely falling out of his arm slot while his arm drags and a whole bunch of crap we would expect to see from somebody who can't find a clue with a rake. Thats why his fastball is flat and wild, and his curve roly poly like in a pie throwing contest.
He could get everything back after the all-star break and it wouldn't surprise me. On the other hand it could take until next season. Or until the next polar shift.
by E Ticket on
Jul 9, 2007 10:14 AM PDT
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Re: Estes's Ghost: The Return
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on
Jul 9, 2007 10:21 AM PDT
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Re: Estes's Ghost: The Return
And so it goes.
by E Ticket on
Jul 9, 2007 10:31 AM PDT
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Re: Estes's Ghost: The Return
by howtheyscored on
Jul 9, 2007 12:05 PM PDT
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Re: Estes's Ghost: The Return
Given all his zen crap, though, one would have thought that adjustment period would have been much shorter.
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on
Jul 9, 2007 6:27 PM PDT
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Re: Estes's Ghost: The Return
Head cases are legion. Hammaker, Estes, and now Zito?
by getnby on
Jul 9, 2007 10:28 AM PDT
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More headcases
by tk on
Jul 9, 2007 10:45 AM PDT
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Re: Estes's Ghost: The Return
I mean, why kill yourself for the 2007 SF Giants?
by zenbitz on
Jul 9, 2007 10:31 AM PDT
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Re: Estes's Ghost: The Return
by getnby on
Jul 9, 2007 10:43 AM PDT
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Re: Estes's Ghost: The Return
by Lyle on
Jul 9, 2007 12:51 PM PDT
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Re: Estes's Ghost: The Return
by robbgin on
Jul 9, 2007 1:00 PM PDT
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Re: Estes's Ghost: The Return
If he's a headcase, nothing will fix him as long as the contract is in effect...
by Skaldheim on
Jul 9, 2007 1:10 PM PDT
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Re: Estes's Ghost: The Return
Dumb, Dumber, Dumbest
We all have a cross to bear you guys just picked the heaviest and most awkward to carry.
The only thing that keeps us pinstripers going is knowing we did it 26 times, don't know how you guys can stand it.
by yankeefan57 on
Jul 9, 2007 1:33 PM PDT
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Re: Estes's Ghost: The Return
by Punch Rockgroin on
Jul 9, 2007 1:37 PM PDT
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10
by WalrusMan on
Jul 9, 2007 1:33 PM PDT
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Re: 10
by Natto on
Jul 9, 2007 11:46 PM PDT
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Re: Estes's Ghost: The Return
by positiveuphemism on
Jul 9, 2007 2:20 PM PDT
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Re: Estes's Ghost: The Return
Here's a wacky idea...send him down to Fresno , where he can search for that Lost Chord all he wants and not cost us games (negligible offense notwithstanding). If he finds it...Next Day Air his pale ass back.
Oh , Fresno would be a slap in Management's face?
Might knock some of that clownface makeup off.
by victor frankenstein on
Jul 9, 2007 6:11 PM PDT
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Re: Estes's Ghost: The Return
Curveball pitchers are just always going to be inconsistent. Zito is not a good pitcher, but next year he's just as likely to pitch like this year's Matt Morris instead of last year's Matt Morris.
Still an unconsionably terrible contract, but we're probably seeing the worst it will get right now.
by Voodoo Chile on
Jul 9, 2007 6:54 PM PDT
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Re: Estes's Ghost: The Return
by Lyle on
Jul 10, 2007 7:07 AM PDT
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Re: Estes's Ghost: The Return
by Sandor Clegane on
Jul 9, 2007 9:20 PM PDT
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Re: Estes's Ghost: The Return
Not that I hate Zito. I think he's a nice pitcher (or can be) not worth his contract. He'd be a perfectly fine fourth or fifth starter. But he's paid like an Ace on a team where 3 homegrown pitchers are outperforming him for next to nothing compared.
by Punch Rockgroin on
Jul 9, 2007 9:31 PM PDT
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e: Estes's Ghost: The Return
We should start a pool. Year...month...even Day of Announcement.
Side bets for destination.
By the time he DOES leave (In search of his Lost Ability) we'll have amassed a tidy sum.
by victor frankenstein on
Jul 9, 2007 11:34 PM PDT
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Re: Estes's Ghost: The Return
Of course, if it were that simple, I'd be straight by now.
As a longtime fan of his, and as someone who is attracted to this type (else clearly I would be a fan of people who I find uninteresting and are statistically successful) Zito was seriously spooked out of his mind by the contract and the concomitant pressure. Particularly difficult is how bad the team has been outside of him, which has made the frustrations of the fanbase boil over, a fanbase whose anger has already successfully pushed one looks-good-but-not-working pitcher from merely problematic through to unpopular to hated to out the door. (Hi Mando.)
The size of the contract automatically engendered a very natural resentment among everyone who makes less. That undercut Zito's likeability quotient immensely, without actually having to do with his being likeable. He was a lot more likeable, record aside, when he was making less than a million dollars a year. If Tim Lincecum were not making major league minimum, but, say, was making $10 million a year, he'd be far less liked.
Zito is the kind who notices that, and like E said, it has affected him. He knows he's on probation, that he cannot, cannot, live up to 126 000 000. But he's trying to, which makes things worse. Like in most things particularly baseball, the harder you try ...
I don't know how to fix this. It is a confluence of factors, how bad the team is, how angry and impatient we the fanbase is, the sheer size of the contract. I say this because the usual "remedies" -- release him, trade him, fire the GM, get rid of Magowan and Baer (!?!) -- are far more difficult, with far more negative consequences, than simply accepting this is a bad season (or bad half-season) and believing the abilities that made him so successful, and beloved on the other side of the Bay, will reassert themselves.
There may be something to the send-him-down thing. I read the quote he gave to Schulman in the Gate today. Still sounds calm and reasonable. I think he's repressing, not meditating. To send him down would be an admission not of failure, but of being in trouble, by the front office, and would probably tick him off and get him to snap out of what to me looks a lot like denial.
Barry Zito has been, since he first showed up, my favorite player. Why? Because he's my type, plus he was good. I looked at him and thought he's like Estes (my Shawnie) but level-headed and can pitch in the playoffs. I spent too many years dreaming of him wearing orange and black to turn my back on him now. I'll just grit my teeth and bear it. But I definitely will have a hard time going to see him at the ballpark this season. I won't be able to take the boos.
by shanghaijim on
Jul 9, 2007 9:26 PM PDT
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Re: Estes's Ghost: The Return
That con artist...Alyssa was just a prop then...
by victor frankenstein on
Jul 9, 2007 11:44 PM PDT
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Re: Estes's Ghost: The Return
by shanghaijim on
Jul 11, 2007 9:15 AM PDT
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Re: Estes's Ghost: The Return
by getnby on
Jul 10, 2007 6:58 AM PDT
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Re: Estes's Ghost: The Return
by shanghaijim on
Jul 11, 2007 9:14 AM PDT
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Re: Estes's Ghost: The Return
I still think that he could improve and be decent over the next couple years, but the length of this contract pretty much guarantees it will be one of the worst ever.
by Poe on
Jul 10, 2007 12:56 PM PDT
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