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Adam Dunn Anyone?

Padres dreaming of Dunn
Dye would be a logical fit for the Dodgers or Padres, and the Padres also are eyeing Reds left fielder Adam Dunn. Acquiring Dunn would be a risk -- he becomes a free agent at the end of the season if he is traded -- but that doesn't bother the Padres.

The Reds' price tag, however, probably would.

Dunn is their biggest chip, and the Reds would be excoriated if they traded another offensive part for bullpen help after sending outfielder Austin Kearns and shortstop Felipe Lopez to the Nationals in such a deal last season.

The emergence of right-hander Justin Germano theoretically could make righty Clay Hensley available, but the Padres will need to be careful -- they've got two 40-somethings in their rotation, righty Greg Maddux and lefty David Wells, plus oft-injured righty Jake Peavy.

A right-handed hitter probably would be the best fit for the Padres, but Dunn is one hitter whose power is big enough to overcome pitcher-friendly Petco Park.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6885404

If Clay Hensley is enough why wouldn't Jonathan Sanchez be enough?  

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

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Re: Adam Dunn Anyone?
Um, no way thank you. No Adam Dunn.
Your 2012 NL ERA champion: Sergio Romo

by Lyle on Jun 5, 2007 2:02 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Adam Dunn Anyone?
why the hell not?
In Soviet Russia, save blows Benitez!

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Jun 5, 2007 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Adam Dunn Anyone?
Err - not going to happen. A fox sports rumor doesn't make it true. Any Reds official would scoff at a Jonathon Sanchez for Adam Dunn deal. Moreover, upon being dealt, Dunn can void the 2nd year of his deal and become an FA -which makes it even more illogical for a rebuilding team.

by Aadik on Jun 4, 2007 10:42 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Adam Dunn Anyone?
If it could be done as a sign-and-trade I'd probably be for it, but I don't really see it happening.

Really, the thing most memorable about that article is the first time I've ever seen a sportswriter use the word "excoriated."

Barry Zito: Mike Hampton with a guitar

by JakeS on Jun 4, 2007 10:50 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Adam Dunn Anyone?
Er, momentary dyslexia there, I mean "trade-and-sign" of course.
Barry Zito: Mike Hampton with a guitar

by JakeS on Jun 4, 2007 10:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Adam Dunn Anyone?
Again, as I attempted to quantify what Dye would bring us, I'll attempt to quantify Dunn's impact.

My mancrush on Adam Dunn is well-documented. However, if we put him in right field, we will be LOSING production from Randy Winn. Dunn is that bad of a fielder. If we put him at first base, where he belongs on an NL team, the UZR data suggests he's a terrible defender there, too, about as bad as he is in LF, and he could actually be a full win worse with the leather than Klesko over the course of a season.

With the bat, Klesko's true performance level is somewhere around 70 RC, and Dunn's is somewhere around 100. So, Dunn is three wins better with the bat and one win worse with the glove, meaning that, over the course of an entire season, Dunn is worth about two wins more than Klesko, but only if he plays 1B. That's significant, but the roster implications don't help matters, and replacing Winn with Dunn is a non-starter, so I don't see it happening.

David Arnott
Sportszilla -- Kickass Sports Writing
Adopted EME

by David Arnott on Jun 4, 2007 10:57 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Adam Dunn Anyone?
>over the course of an entire season, Dunn is worth about two wins more than Klesko

And about 10x as expensive. Couldn't the Giants use the extra money to find others who make up the win differential?

Jesse Foppert: Welcome home, my son. And meet your adopted brother, Kelvin Pichardo. He's from the Dominican Republic.

by leftymalo on Jun 4, 2007 11:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Adam Dunn Anyone?
Also, I should mention that the hitting stats aren't park-adjusted. Penalize Dunn slightly for moving to a park that kills lefty power hitters not named Bonds, guys like Dunn, and the gap shrinks between Klesko (who's played in Petco/ATT the past few years) and Dunn (who's played in a hitter's park in Cinci).
David Arnott
Sportszilla -- Kickass Sports Writing
Adopted EME

by David Arnott on Jun 4, 2007 11:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Adam Dunn Anyone?
I can't get the zip file of the 03-07 UZRs to open (assuming that's what you're referring to), but Dunn has about a ~60 game sample at first base since 2003... I think the guy who computes UZR would tell you not to make any conclusions about Dunn's 1B ability based on 60 games. Not that he's a good first baseman, but he might not be quite a full win worse with the glove than Klesko.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Jun 4, 2007 11:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Adam Dunn Anyone?
That's why I wrote "suggests". I recall an anonymous scout in some column last year saying Dunn was a terrible 1B, too. Didn't wanna take the time to dig it out. If you follow Tango/MGL's work, too, then you'll probably also be receptive to the idea that AT&T Park would be particularly detrimental to Dunn's game in ways that it is to Helton, Klesko, et al, and isn't to Winn, Durham, and a few others.
David Arnott
Sportszilla -- Kickass Sports Writing
Adopted EME

by David Arnott on Jun 5, 2007 2:07 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Adam Dunn Anyone?
AT&T Park would be particularly detrimental to Dunn's game

Can you expand on this? My hunch is that guys who hit a lot of towering flyballs, like Dunn (and like Bonds) are the sort of power hitters who would be least hurt by our park.

by Evan on Jun 5, 2007 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Adam Dunn Anyone?
Then we just start Dunn at first...I see no problem with that.  Or move Winn to center and bench Roberts.

by Chulk on Jun 4, 2007 10:59 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Adam Dunn Anyone?
I'd be cool with trading Sanchez for him. Most definitely. I don't know if it would take more than that, though.

We would definitely have to have some assurance that we could sign him longterm though before making any trades.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Jun 4, 2007 11:15 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Even Crazier Idea!
Giants Get:
Ken Griffey to play RF (must waive 10/5 no trade rights)
Adam Dunn to play 1B (must waive option to void 08 Team Option with this trade)
4 bottom of the pile 40 Man Roster Bodies

Reds Get:
Matt Morris to join Rotation
Jonathan Sanchez to join Rotation
Steve Kline to join Bullpen
Ryan Klesko to join Outfield
Fred Lewis to join Outfield
Daniel Ortmeier to join Outfield
Choice of 2 non 40 Man Roster Prospects 20 year old or older  

Resulting Giants 25 Man Roster:

LineUp:
Randy Winn CF
Ray Durham 2B
Adam Dunn 1B
Barry Bonds LF
Ken Griffey RF
Bengie Molina C
Pedro Feliz 3B
Omar Vizquel SS

Bench:
Dave Roberts OF
Mark Sweeney OF
Rich Aurilia IF
Kevin Frandsen IF
Eliezer Alfonzo C

Rotation:
Barry Zito
Matt Cain
Noah Lowry
Tim Lincecum
Russ Ortiz (Travis Blackley if Russ injured)

Bullpen:
Troy Percival (sign as Free Agent)
Brad Hennessey
Kevin Correia
Vinnie Chulk
Randy Messenger
Patrick Misch
Jack Taschner

by giantsrainman on Jun 4, 2007 11:38 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Even Crazier Idea!
You're still here?
Sabean Trek: The Search for 100 Losses

by ToddLindenHasAPosse on Jun 4, 2007 11:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Even Crazier Idea!
Why wouldn't I be?  It ain't even midnight yet.

by giantsrainman on Jun 4, 2007 11:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Even Crazier Idea!
You still ain't making sense
Sabean Trek: The Search for 100 Losses

by ToddLindenHasAPosse on Jun 4, 2007 11:49 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Even Crazier Idea!
Yeah, let's get older and slower, and have less plate discipline.
Your 2012 NL ERA champion: Sergio Romo

by Lyle on Jun 5, 2007 2:05 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Even Crazier Idea!
It's Sabes' wet dream.

by xanthan on Jun 5, 2007 8:02 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Even Crazier Idea!
now hang on a minute, Adam Dunn walks a ton.  100 + over the past three years.

Griffey?  not as much, but he walks enough.

In Soviet Russia, save blows Benitez!

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Jun 5, 2007 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Even Crazier Idea!
I'm fairly confident that this scenario is not going to play out.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Jun 4, 2007 11:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Even Crazier Idea!
I think you win the Understatement Of The Entire History Of Time award.
Steve Kline: He's pretty okay!

by groug on Jun 4, 2007 11:50 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Even Crazier Idea!
What do you think it would take to get both Griffey and Dunn?  I don't see less then 2 years of Dunn and Griffey's injury risks being worth more.  I even debated suggesting less.

by giantsrainman on Jun 4, 2007 11:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Even Crazier Idea!
I don't know if that's a fair deal or not (though I wouldn't touch Griffey with a 10-foot pole... the thought of him playing RF at AT&T makes me physically ill. WHIFFEY IS NOT YOUR SAVIOR!) but I'm pretty sure a trade like that (essentially 8 for 2) is not going to happen.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Jun 4, 2007 11:58 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Even Crazier Idea!
I do think Griffey's injury history reduces his trade value.  But, I also think he has finally figured out how to play and stay healthy ala Barry Bonds.  I also think he would be fine in RF at AT&T just like Moises proved to be fine in RF at AT&T.

by giantsrainman on Jun 5, 2007 12:04 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Even Crazier Idea!
Have you watched Griffey play defense anytime lately? His range is just about zero. According to UZR, he's been worth -6 runs on D so far this year and it's been about that bad (albeit in CF) pretty much every year since 2003. Moises was never a terrible fielder... not to the extent that Griffey has become. Griffey in RF at AT&T would be ugly.

And his trade value has certainly diminished, but I am 99.9% sure we're not going to trade for him. And I don't see any reason to think he's learned how to play and stay healthy...

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Jun 5, 2007 12:11 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Even Crazier Idea!
Whatever liabilities Griffey has on defense (and I think you are overstating them) are not just made up on offense but blown away on offense.  By the way, why do you think Griffey's range has decreased?  Could it not be because he no longer goes full out (like Bonds) in order to make sure he doesn't hurt himself again?

by giantsrainman on Jun 5, 2007 12:21 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Even Crazier Idea!
I'd guess his range has decreased because of the incredible amount of leg injuries he's had over the past decade? And he's old?

I must take umbrage with your assertion that Griffey's offense makes up for his atrocious defense. By BPro, he's been worth only 1.7 wins above a replacement player thus far because his defense is so terrible (around the same (-7) as his UZR rating.) Over a full season, he only projects to be worth 4.8 - not a bad number, but not a good one either. You underestimate the importance of defense to a player's value.

As for Bonds, he's actually been average to slightly below average on defense the last few years by most accounts. Not an asset, but not a liability either.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Jun 5, 2007 12:27 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Even Crazier Idea!
I thought people were being overly harsh towards you recently, but it seems to me like you're purposely trying to get negative reaction.

I'd rather have Manny Ramirez as our designated right fielder than Griffey's bat and glove on the Giants.

Why don't we try to lure Eric Davis out of retirement while we're at it. Or maybe Joe Morgan--he had some of his best years in the booth when he was with us--and he did hit that homerun that time.

Dunn for Sanchez isn't bad as long as we can work out a long term deal with Dunn before the trade.

Do they know to win the game a team has to actually score at least once?

by noahthek on Jun 5, 2007 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Even Crazier Idea!
That's definitely crazy.
Mandowear | comics | Sugarman FTW

by Natto on Jun 4, 2007 11:50 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Even Crazier Idea!
It's just SO crazy it might....

nah.

by zenbitz on Jun 5, 2007 7:59 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm a Dunn too, and I'll pass...
So one day, I got a little crazy and looked up a bunch of stats on lefties in AT&T.  It was prompted by the impending acquisition of Klesko and a belief that lefties do not fair too well here in the park by the bay.  I had sheets of scribbled upon paper and I was going to post it all here.  

Well I got too busy and haven't had the chance to do it.  One day I will go through the scratch and post my findings.  What I can say, is that the majority of lefties see a significant decline in power numbers at AT&T.

There are exceptions (I think I remember these correctly):
Chad Tracy
Jim Edmonds
Ken Griffey
Barry (of course)

Adam Dunn has not done well.  His AT&T AB's are a very small sample size, but the larger sample seems to indicate that most lefties lose power, especially HR in our park.  

I have considered what element it is that gives some lefties success here over the vast majority.  Seeing Barry hit here with more frequency than any other power lefty gives a little indication.  Could the two important factors be:

The willingness and power to hit HR's the other way.

The tendency to hit line drive home runs to left over high, arcing HR's.

I haven't seen Tracy and Edmonds hit enough to say that they would fit this mold.  Griffey, who has hit well here (very small sample) does fit the profile of a line drive HR hitter.

It's just specultaion, though.  I can't really say with sincerity that this is it.  It seems to fit with my (incomplete) observational data.

Nonetheless, I would be very hesitant to bring in Adam Dunn.  The guy walks a ton, but his true value lies in the ability to get on base AND hit the bomb.  If he were to lose some of that power, I think we would definitely be overpaying on him.

Now that I have put forth all that, Klesko had bad numbers at AT&T before this year.  But now he seems to be enjoying it tremendously (more small sample).  In fact, his numbers at home are significantly better than his road numbers (which are bad, stinky bad). He only has one homer at AT&T but he also has only one on the road and it could be an indication that he is just plain losing the power to hit HR's in general.

Still, if management goes after power LH, I think they really, really should consider park factor.  Myself, I'll pass on Dunn, thanks.

-- Born Yesterday

by thatdog on Jun 4, 2007 11:50 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: I'm a Dunn too, and I'll pass...
And criminies, don't trade Sanchez for this guy!!!  Not that I want to hold on to Sanchez, but if we're going to trade him, use that chip wisely.  Put him in a package to bring back INEXPENSIVE players who have shown talent and results.

Sanchez and Morris with some throw ins should fetch something interesting and useful.

-- Born Yesterday

by thatdog on Jun 4, 2007 11:55 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Everyone says this over and over
Please give some examples where you think Morris and or Sanchez can bring back something inexpensive of value.

Also please don't say something like Teahen or Crawford. We've heard enough of that already.

by awesomer on Jun 5, 2007 12:09 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Everyone says this over and over
I have no doubt that any example he provided you would find fault with.  You are emotionally tied to the idea of trashing and burning the current position player roster and then rebuilding from scratch.  Any idea to the contrary your emotions demand that you find fault with.

by giantsrainman on Jun 5, 2007 12:13 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Everyone says this over and over
Yeah, because everybody around here but you is just harboring personal vendettas left and right. Shove it.
Barry Zito: Mike Hampton with a guitar

by JakeS on Jun 5, 2007 12:17 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Everyone says this over and over
Unfortunely, too many here have indeed become too emotionally attached to blaming Sabean.  I am sorry, but when the glove fits I just have to conclude that it is indeed your glove.  

by giantsrainman on Jun 5, 2007 12:27 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Everyone says this over and over
No matter how many times you say this, it doesn't make it true.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Jun 5, 2007 12:29 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Everyone says this over and over
Yeah, I think it's pretty likely that ten or fifteen  different people here with different opinions are all harboring personal biases on the subject. I mean, nothing about that seems questionable at all. At least there's one person to stand against the masses and see the light.
Barry Zito: Mike Hampton with a guitar

by JakeS on Jun 5, 2007 12:31 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Everyone says this over and over
Jake, it is hard to emotionally detach and very rare when emotions are at their highest.  Right now the emotions of the LuniticFringe (and I actually mean this affectionately believe it or not) make it impossible for most to emotionally detach.   I too am very upset with the Giants wasting the Greatest Player in my lifetime by not surounding him with the support he needed (VLAD!) when he was at his best.  But, I do have the talent to emotionally detach and this talent allows me to still see the good in Sabean inspite of my anger with him.  Believe it or not I still see the good in George Bush too inspite of my even stronger anger with him.  I don't blame those that don't have this talent.  They are the majority.  But, I do feel compelled to point out that there are other options besides just going with these very strong emotions.

by giantsrainman on Jun 5, 2007 12:46 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Everyone says this over and over
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Jun 5, 2007 12:50 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Everyone says this over and over
I love that gopher... thing... whatever it is.
Good news: Brian Sabean has left us in position to be in contention by the next century, at least.

by Punch Rockgroin on Jun 5, 2007 9:09 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Everyone says this over and over
You know what, if those that hate Xeifrank can ignore the second biggest troll around here (at least he's civil), maybe I can find that sort of "talent" in myself.
Barry Zito: Mike Hampton with a guitar

by JakeS on Jun 5, 2007 1:17 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Everyone says this over and over
If the glove fits you must acquit

by kwyjibo on Jun 5, 2007 9:28 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Everyone says this over and over
I'm sorry none of your trade proposals make sense. :(
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Jun 5, 2007 12:19 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Everyone says this over and over
Just as you are emotionally tied to making talk radio-esque suggestions. Why on earth would the Reds trade their best hitter for Jonathon Sanchez?

by Aadik on Jun 5, 2007 12:19 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Everyone says this over and over
The Cards need a catcher - how about Alfonzo for Pujols!
Barry Zito: Mike Hampton with a guitar

by JakeS on Jun 5, 2007 12:23 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Everyone says this over and over
Even better - the Yanks need a 1b? Phil Hughes for Klesko!

by Aadik on Jun 5, 2007 12:23 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Everyone says this over and over
I see you like to build a straw man and attack it when you don't have what it takes to address the actual debate.

by giantsrainman on Jun 5, 2007 12:24 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Everyone says this over and over
Because they seem to be willing to consider trading him for Clay Hensley and I think Jonathan Sanchez is better then Clay Hensley.

by giantsrainman on Jun 5, 2007 12:23 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Everyone says this over and over
Ken Rosenthal mentioned Hensley as a possibility... there's no indication that the Reds are willing to do it.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Jun 5, 2007 12:29 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Everyone says this over and over
So I take it Rosenthal and I are equally idiots in your eyes when it comes to Dunn's trade value.  I find alot of what Ken says that is personality driven (like his hatred of one Barry Lamar Bonds) as indeed idiotic.  But, I do think he knows talent and knows what the trade value of players are and what teams are both hoping for and willing to settle for to trade a particular player.

by giantsrainman on Jun 5, 2007 12:34 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Everyone says this over and over
Except that even Rosenthal never says that the Reds would do that deal. He hypothesizes that the Padres would be willing to trade Hensley, perhaps as part of a package for Dunn, nothing more.
Barry Zito: Mike Hampton with a guitar

by JakeS on Jun 5, 2007 12:35 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Everyone says this over and over
Where the hell do you get that from? I'm just pointing out that Rosenthal is only speculating... there's no proof that the Reds truly think Clay Hensley is a fair return for Adam Dunn.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Jun 5, 2007 12:36 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Everyone says this over and over
Give me a break.  Ken wouldn't speculate about it if he didn't think the Reds would consider it.  You and the rest of those attacking me have been caught with me having a knowledgable expert on my side and you are just trying to dig your arguement out of the impact of this.  Sorry, it ain't working except to those already in your choir.

by giantsrainman on Jun 5, 2007 12:49 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Everyone says this over and over
For someone who says they are able to detach emotionally from a situation, you sure seem to having a tough time of it at the moment.

By the way... all Rosenthal said was: "The emergence of right-hander Justin Germano theoretically could make righty Clay Hensley available,"

That's all. I'm sorry you're reading more into his statement than you should be.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Jun 5, 2007 12:55 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Everyone says this over and over
Nobody on this board takes more personal attacks then I do.  I ain't complaining and I never will.  They don't bother me and they never will.  
I understand that it is just human nature to attack that which you find different and do not understand.

Yes, I am by nature a contrairian (I am not going to bother to look up how to spell this correctly).  To me you just can't come to a truely logical and dispassionate point of view with out being able to consider that the other point of view might be right.  Believe it or not, I do accept that opinions contrary to mine might be right and in some cases (maybe even most cases) probably are right.  But, until I am convinced by logic and facts rather then emotions and attacks I will continue to voice my contrary opinions so that all can hear both the popular view and my contrary view.  Even if some choose to belittle my views and give them now weight, even if few find them entertaining or informative, I find the discussions they lead to (when stripped of emotion) both entertaining and informative and that is why I am hear posting.

by giantsrainman on Jun 5, 2007 1:15 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Everyone says this over and over
Well, I certainly find these discussions entertaining.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Jun 5, 2007 1:17 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Everyone says this over and over
I find them a little tiring. Or, wait, maybe I'm just tired...

Well, the debates I enjoy quite a bit. The squabbling I find kind of tiring.

I am pretty tired, too. What am I doing up at 1:25 in the morning, anyway??? It's not like I have any papers I'm putting off anymore since I finished school (and thank God for that). I'm going to bed.

Coming to you by proxy (I adopted: Dave Righetti!)

by howtheyscored on Jun 5, 2007 1:27 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Everyone says this over and over
I have my first day of work tomorrow and I'm still up for some reason. I'm dumb like that.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Jun 5, 2007 1:28 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Everyone says this over and over
By the way, I think you would find that you would suffer far fewer personal attacks if you weren't so inflammatory in nearly every comment you make.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Jun 5, 2007 1:22 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Everyone says this over and over
Forget it, he's an arrogant prick with a Spock complex. Maybe if we ignore him he'll go away.
Barry Zito: Mike Hampton with a guitar

by JakeS on Jun 5, 2007 1:24 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Everyone says this over and over
As much fun as poking the troll is, at some point you have to stop.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Jun 5, 2007 1:26 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Everyone says this over and over
Nowhere in that article does it say the Reds were considering trading Dunn for Clay Hensley. It says that Hensley would be available as a chip, nothing more.
Barry Zito: Mike Hampton with a guitar

by JakeS on Jun 5, 2007 12:31 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You may personally think this
But you'd be in the clear minority  I believe. Last year Hensely went 11-12 with a 3.71 era and opponents hit only .248 off him.

(Now of course these aren't the metrics I like but we're talking about dealing with Krivsky here, guy's a grade A moran. Felipe Lopez + Austin Kearns for Gary Majewski and Bill Bray? HAHAHAHAHAHA)

Sanchez on the other hand was for all intents and  purposes a reliever, and posted a 4.95 era with opponents hitting .257 off him.

Obviously this means Hensley > Sanchez.

*This isn't too serious a post, I don't want to look up too much tonight but there are a bunch of other reason Hensley is probably better than Sanchez.

by awesomer on Jun 5, 2007 12:31 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Everyone says this over and over
Awesomer, I don't post often but I don't think I have ever given any indication that I would suggest something like that (Morris and Sanchez for Crawford).

What I consider for a trade like that is trading these guys as a part of a package for a young talent that has yet to hit the major leagues.  It would have to be someone on the cusp.  Joey Votto is intriguing to me, but there are a couple of problems with this:

The Reds have no incentive to do this.  Dunn could leave Cincy and Votto could fill 1B.  Cincy isn't really dying for someone like Morris.

Contenders who may be looking for pitching don't seem to have the kind of players of which I am thinking (at least on the surface).

Regardless of those issues, I think it is in the team's interest to target guys like Votto.  To make that deal, it would proabably take a package of Morris, Sanchez, and throw-ins.  In return, the Giants receive "a guy like Votto", and throw-ins.  The throw-ins would need to have some value to the team trading with the Giants (ie bullpen arms, defensive ability. etc).

I keep saying "guys like Votto" because my minor league knowledge is pretty much limited to the Giants.  As stated before, the Reds do not have incentive to move Votto.  Also, if You read my post above, I'm not sure about bringing lefty power hitters.  But if You want more names:

Brian Barton - Cleveland.  Would probably take less than what I suggested above, a little further away in AA.

Josh Fields - Sox may not be interested in SP.  I've heard others here talk about Fields.

Billy Butler - Would command a lot.

Chris Shelton - By the trade deadline, Detroit might be very interested in both a starter AND a closer.  I don't think it would take both to get Shelton.

I'm not expecting something crazy good in return for Morris and Sanchez.  Wouldn't we all love to have someone like Alex Gordon or Ryan Braun on the team.  Realistically, I think we can fill a void at one of the corner postions more than adequately with such a trade.  Whaddya think?

-- Born Yesterday

by thatdog on Jun 5, 2007 2:32 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry if it seemed I was attacking you
I was just frustrated in general with posts we had for a week or two here where every new trade would be "OMG let's send Armando and Lowry and EME for Mcab, and you know what we'll even toss in Feliz" as if that is a positive addition to the trade.

I think some of these names are much more realistic then what was mentioned before. I agree that Votto and Butler are going to be damn near impossible to get, I'm not sure either team would take Cain or Lincecum for them at this point.

After Crede's struggling this year, I think the Sox are almost surely going to pass on him as a FA, and Fields will probably step in there.

Haven't heard much about Barton, and I think Shelton is a realistic goal as the Tigers seem set to give Marcus Thames 1B in the future as their OF is pretty crowded. I do agree with what it would take for him, and I think it is a pretty attainable goal for the giants.

by awesomer on Jun 5, 2007 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Sorry if it seemed I was attacking you
Fields was called up today by the White Sox.

If the Tigers are using Thames at 1B, I have to believe that they have little faith in Shelton.

Shelton really tanked after a hot start last year, so pitchers may have figured him out.  I can't say for sure, but the Giants probably have some sense as to whether Shelton is some kind of answer or another Lance Niekro.  I would bet that Shelton is available for some bullpen help - unfortunately, that isn't out strong suit, is it?

by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jun 6, 2007 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Adam Dunn Anyone?
I See No Reason Why The Giants Would Not Be Able To Get Adam Dunn and Ken GrifFey Jr. For Scott MunTer And Jonathan SanChez.  Ken GrifFey Has Only One Functional Limb, His Right Arm, And Wheels Himself Around the Outfield, But He'll Be Fine.  Your Hatred Of Brian Sabean Blinds You LuniTics Of My Genius. Getting SuperStars For the LineUp Will Make Them WinNers
Sabean Trek: The Search for 100 Losses

by ToddLindenHasAPosse on Jun 5, 2007 12:42 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Adam Dunn Anyone?
Ken Griffey Jr is a rusting hulk of his old self.  He is absolutely fragile, his defense is atrocious, and he won't be a part of any Giants future even if the Giants did trade for him.  He is exactly the kind of player (old, declining, injury-prone, and poor defensively) that the Giants should not be pursuing.

Adam Dunn has an option that voids if he is traded before 2008, so if you trade for him, he is a rental for the rest of the season.  After two years of being a 6.5 WARP players, he had a 3.7 WARP season last year, and is on pace for a 3.9 WARP season this year.  Granted, that probably goes up a bit if he moves to 1B, because he is bad and getting worse in the OF.  To re-sign him, it will probably take at least $15m/year and probably more.

Adam Dunn is, by all accounts, lazy, unwilling to work on defense, and not particularly devoted to conditioning.  But would he help the team?  Absolutely.  There are some good reasons to think about Dunn, though.  Depending on what it would take to get him, you would end up with a big bat in the middle of the order, which this team desperately needs.  You also end up with a Type A FA at the end of the year, so if you don't sign him, you get compensation picks.  He also only makes $10.5m this year, 1/3 of which has been paid, so he is a relatively cheap boost if you acquire him this year.  If you do re-sign him, he can stick at 1B and learn the position, and he is one of relatively few guys in the league with the great power to beat the RF wall.

It all depends on how much you have to give up.  The Reds aren't a contender and probably don't want Morris.  They would want Sanchez, but I think a lot of people are overrating Sanchez's trade value.  Maybe Lowry and Sanchez and some other minor-leaguers could get it done, but I am really not sure how much the Reds want to get rid of him.

BTW:  Giantsrainman didn't start out too well, but he is trying to be a part of this community and has been decidedly less douche-y.  Maybe people could give him a chance before jumping all over his posts?  And Giantsrainman - you would do well simply to post your thoughts and argue your points without saying "ANTI-SABEAN BIAS ANTI-SABEAN BIAS" every time someone disagrees with you - remember, that isn't a compelling answer to criticisms of your proposals.

by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jun 5, 2007 3:38 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Question for You
Would You send Lowry and Sanchez to the Reds for Dunn straight up?
-- Born Yesterday

by thatdog on Jun 5, 2007 4:03 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Question for You
Lowry and Sanchez for just the remainder of 2007 of Dunn?  Am I the only one that thinks the Reds would jump all over this if we were foolish enough to make this offer?  If we actually did this I don't think it would take long for you all to forget all about the "AJ" trade.  

Sanchez and a lessor prospect should be all it takes.  

Lowry to me is almost as untouchable as Lincecum or Cain.  We would have to get an already in the majors and already showing signs of .850+ OPS bat that is just as far away from free agency and just as cheap as Noah for me to be willing to trade Lowry.

by giantsrainman on Jun 5, 2007 4:17 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Adam Dunn Anyone?
Adam Dunn hits HRs and strikes out. He's a white Cecil Fielder, or a good Regie Sanders
Dodger Fans LOVE Benitez!

by milesntrane on Jun 5, 2007 8:57 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Adam Dunn Anyone?
Dunn's abundance of Ks puts me off, plus the fact that the team would have to give up way too much to get him, when he's not really worth what we'd send over in exchange.

Pass.

Strikeouts are boring. Besides that, they're fascist. Not boring: Emmanuel Burriss. Not fascist: SF Dugout

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jun 5, 2007 9:27 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Adam Dunn Anyone?
Remember, strikeouts are not necessarily bad.  They're twice as good as hitting into a double play.

by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Jun 5, 2007 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Adam Dunn Anyone?
I'm not much fan of a guy who either hits the ball a million miles or can't hit it at all.
Strikeouts are boring. Besides that, they're fascist. Not boring: Emmanuel Burriss. Not fascist: SF Dugout

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jun 5, 2007 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Adam Dunn Anyone?
It's all in the ratios.  And the walks.

by zenbitz on Jun 5, 2007 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Adam Dunn Anyone?
It seems to me that to just try to evaluate whther Dunn is worth Sanchez or Sanchez + Morris or Lowry leaves out an important part of the assessment.  
  We already have Klesko, who I happen to think is the better player, particularly defensively.  Even offensively I don't see much of an upgrade if Dunn were to replace Klesko:
Klesko   BA   OBP   SLG
07       308  383   477   in ATT
05       248  358   418   in Petco
career   281  372   507

Dunn    
07       255  353   530   in Cinci
06       234  365   490
career   246  378   514

Maybe you trade Klesko for Dunn.  But why would you trade away good pitching to get another Klesko to replace Klesko?  Don't we have enough 1bmen?
  As Teddy points out, there is somewhere around a 2 game improvement from Dunn, over the course of an entire season, and (if I recall correctly) using Dunn's bandbox numbers in comparison with Klesko's Petco numbers.  Don't we lose the one or two wins Dunn gives us by having to replace a pitcher?

by allfrank on Jun 5, 2007 1:52 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't compare career numbers at this point
Klesko is about to turn 36, Dunn is 27. Though Dunn's power numbers are already awesome, 27 is considered by many to be the "primetime" power age, so its not to say Dunn's numbers could increase some.

I'm fairly certain Klesko's not going to be near his .879 career OPS numbers, I think the Giants would be pretty thrilled with .825 to be honest. Right now his BB% is down quite abit and his OBP is up because of his unusually high BA tied to his .360 BABIP.

Klesko's numbers are also probably skewed this year because of his platoon splits, he has 104 PA against RHP as opposed to only 17 vs lefties.

I think Dunn overall would be a sizeable improvement over Klesko and for certain over Aurilia. Maybe the reds want Aurilia back? Kinda doubt it but by the way they screwed around with EE earlier this year who knows.

by awesomer on Jun 5, 2007 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

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