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Another modest proposal

How bad are the Giants? There are 425 ways to answer that right now; #40 is that I attended a wedding with an A's fan and a Padres fan, and they spent a combined 30 seconds making fun of the Giants. That's it. Any rough patch for the Giants in the past decade would have been guaranteed for about an hour of entertainment for everyone but me. Neifi Perez jokes would have flown like champagne. I would have been asked once again to explain the allure of Kirk Rueter.

Not anymore. The Giants have reached Tampa Bay Devil Rays status - a target that's just a little too easy at which to poke fun. Except the Devil Rays know how to develop hitting, so they're a team on the rise. Except except the Devil Rays still don't know how to develop pitching. It's been over a decade, and that organization.hasn't been able to do it. So it's time to work something out.

Best-of-seven series. Devil Rays and the Giants. The winning team gets to take five players home with them from the positions the teams are incapable of developing on their own. Barry Zito is eligible to be picked, as long as Matt White pays off the remainder of Zito's contract. White does this because he was a Giants-spurning weenie, and it's only right.

If the Giants win the series, they'll have Carl Crawford, B.J. Upton, Delmon Young, Evan Longoria, and Rocco Baldelli. If the Devil Rays win, they take Lincecum, Cain, Sanchez, Lowry, and a free Zito. You can sub players in and out as your preferences demand. If you think Reid Brignac is more likely to rebound than Baldelli, put him in the cart. Loves you some Bumgarner? He's yours, Tampa.

Without this modest proposal, the Devil Rays are going to have a fantastic offense without pitching. The Giants will have a fantastic staff without any offense. They can both suck together, or they can take a chance at becoming an instant super-team. If the Devil Rays win, we can all just pretend the proposed Giants move to Tampa actually happened.

At the very least, I'll continue to entertain scenarios such as this instead of mulling over loss after loss after loss.

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Re: Another modest proposal
I actually think the D-Rays need relief pitching moreso than they need starting pitching at the moment... not that they wouldn't take those guys, but they have Shields, Kazmir and Sonnanstine already in the majors and a bunch of other talented guys on the way in Niemann, McGee, Price, Hammel, Wade Davis, etc. Sadly, they could have an excellent offense and a solid starting staff in the near future even without this proposal. (That said, their relief pitching is truly putrid... you thought the Giants 'pen was bad!)
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Jun 11, 2007 9:22 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Another modest proposal
I say go for it.  As punishment though the losing team should take the rejects from the opposing team.  Can you imaging the Giants with the Rays starting rotation?

So the next three games we are against one pitcher with an ERA of 4.something, and the other two above 5.  Will we score more than 5 runs for the series or am I delusional again?  I think I will watch tonights game even though I'm sure it will feel like pounding my head against a brick wall, over, and over, and over again.

What's the over/under for times we load the bases tonight with less than two outs and don't score?  I say 3.  We'll actually load the bases four times, but one will be with no outs so our GIDP scores a run, although there will be no RBI, but hey, a run is a run.

by paboperfecto on Jun 11, 2007 9:22 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Another modest proposal
I say over/under for the series' runs scored for the boys is 7. I'd take the under.
Hack Leonard could beat up Chuck Norris

by DiegoGiant on Jun 11, 2007 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Another modest proposal
I'll take the over. We tend to slip 12-1 victories in between our 2-1 losses from time to time.
"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Jun 11, 2007 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Another modest proposal
Way under. At this rate they'll be lucky to score more than 3.
Coming to you by proxy (I adopted: Dave Righetti!)

by howtheyscored on Jun 11, 2007 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Another modest proposal
the devil rays drafted james shields.  in the 16th round.  
what comparable hitter have the giants drafted?

by xbhaskarx on Jun 11, 2007 9:24 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Another modest proposal
I think Noah Lowry is a much better hitter than him.
Mandowear | comics | Sugarman FTW

by Natto on Jun 11, 2007 9:28 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Another modest proposal
Interestingly enough, yesterday I was going to write this comment in the Gameday Thread.
So can we trade offenses with the DRays or something?

GET OUT OF MY HEAD, GRANT

Mandowear | comics | Sugarman FTW

by Natto on Jun 11, 2007 9:25 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Another modest proposal
On the subject of loading the bases...

Has anyone kept a count of how many times we've loaded them up with less than 2 outs and failed to score this season?  Or even the last 2 weeks?

I'd go back and count 'em up myself only I fear that my head would explode!

I used to be disgusted, but now I try to be amused!

by PLUChris on Jun 11, 2007 9:37 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Another modest proposal
It does feel like they do it at least three times a game.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Jun 11, 2007 9:38 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Another modest proposal
I counted 88 billion, with an appropriate margin of error.
Coming to you by proxy (I adopted: Dave Righetti!)

by howtheyscored on Jun 11, 2007 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Renewable food source
Are you suggesting we eat the Giants?
Strikeouts are boring. Besides that, they're fascist. Not boring: Emmanuel Burriss. Not fascist: SF Dugout

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jun 11, 2007 9:42 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Another modest proposal
Nothing to add, really, other than that "Loves you some Bumgarner?" is a wonderful use of the English language.
"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Jun 11, 2007 9:46 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Another modest proposal
This post dovetails nicely into a discussion on anther thread regarding Elijah Dukes.

It is clear that he is probably not someone you would want to have as a friend/husband.

BUT,

He's hitting under the mendoza line right now and it could be time to buy low. In my opinion he's worth Morris, and possible Lowry or Sanchez.

Thoughts?

My VORP is higher than Merkin's VORP.

by Poe on Jun 11, 2007 9:52 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Another modest proposal
The only one you need to be hesitant to be trading away is Lowry. The other two should be dealt instantly for Dukes, and Lowry probably should be as well.

To get a legit on base, power hitting CF for 6 years of control should be acted upon immediately.

Yes, he has had some issues with the law. Though they appear to be more numerous and maybe more wrong, I like to compare this to another Bay area troublemaker recently acquired, Stephen Jackson. Yes he has off field issues, yes he can sometimes cause trouble on the field as well. But can the guy ball? If they answer to that is yes, then I want him on my team.

by awesomer on Jun 11, 2007 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Another modest proposal
Maybe if they threw in Young and Tropicana Field.

by Stoned Slacker on Jun 11, 2007 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Another modest proposal
The field would bring down the value of the deal. I wouldn't trade Niekro for Dukes if we had to take that field as part of the bargain. Eugh.
My VORP is higher than Merkin's VORP.

by Poe on Jun 11, 2007 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Another modest proposal
One Word: Noonan

by Whipping Boy on Jun 11, 2007 9:54 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Another modest proposal
I posted this in the diary section but I actually meant to post this here:

The Giants are toast, the sooner we all accept that the better.  I have been as optimistic as anyone else the past three seasons, but I believe that optimism has only set us farther back.  Consider me a full fledged doom and gloomer as of now.  And I it kills me to say this but the sooner we all become doom and gloomers the better.  

Think about it: every time the Giants put some sort of winning streak together, it causes all of Giants nation to start thinking ridiculous thoughts of World Titles.  Sure you don't need a perfect team to win the WS because magic does happen.  Really, no NL team other than the Mets SHOULD have won the WS last year but it happened because that's the postseason.  But can anyone here honestly say that if this team SOMEHOW made it to the postseason we would get anywhere near the pennant, let alone winning it all?  Division titles and Pennants are nice, but SF has NEVER won a World Series! I live in LA right now and fully understand the significance of this - any time a Dodger fan wants to argue baseball he only needs to pull that fact out and suddenly there is no arguement. The LA Dodgers have won the World Series.  The SF Giants have not.  Giving us flashes of hope to make the postseason is not good enough.  We need to buckle down and start a full fledged, multi-year campaign towards winning it all.  

And that is why I am a doom gloomer.  Because every time we put together something good it only serves to placate the masses and therefore put off the eventual fire sale that needs to occur.  Sabean refuses to hit rock bottom- and while hitting rock bottom isn't a necessary prescription towards improvement - at this point it might be the only thing that allows all of the Giants community to take a good hard look in the mirror.  Maybe then we will begin to question why the current management has been obsessed with skimming the surface of mediocrity.  Building teams capable of making temporary surges, only to revert right back to the mean.  It worked for three seasons as attendance held up.  But now the air is being let out, and I say, let it all out.  Sell sell sell, finish this miserable season (seasons) and please lets move on!  

So I pose this new outlook: Be a Doom and Gloomer in the name of optimism! Cheer for the Giant's demise if only to give us the valuable wake up call we desperately need.  It's been great having Barry, that's an understatement, but I am actually excited for the post-Barry era.  Barry gave us as good as chance as ever to win the WS, and we got the equivalent of a bad bounce in that.  Time to move on from that.  The new era in Giant's history is on our doorstep - the only question will we be a pitching dominant title contender or a pitching dominant also-ran?

by Dutchfury on Jun 11, 2007 10:35 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Another modest proposal
Way to prove the Giants suck #41 - while at the Padres/Mariners game yesterday, not one person in my section remarked in the least when the big F appeared next to the SF/OAK 2-0 score, indicating a final score/giants loss. In years prior, this would normally elicit some taunting in my general direction or an overall '"yippee"-type comment from the Compadres Club idiots. Sad that I miss being heckled. But oh so indiciative of how bad we suck. We're not even on the radar anymore. People were watching the Rockies score and cheering against them and not the Gigantes. Disgusting.
Hack Leonard could beat up Chuck Norris

by DiegoGiant on Jun 11, 2007 10:59 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Another modest proposal
Our team has a payroll about $90,000,000, with roughly 60% tied up in the offense (and 83% of the pitching budget is for Zito, Morris and Mando) and yet, we can't score runs with any consistency. Fred Lewis ain't gonna hit grand slams and cycles every day (and he ain't gonna do nothing right now).

With so much money paying for so little production, I have to conclude that the Giants are the MLB equivalent of the Oakland Raiders.

something interesting.

by nostocksjustbonds on Jun 11, 2007 11:09 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Another modest proposal
This is a good analogy and I was thinking the same thing:
  • Not performing up to low expectations, but still delusional and think they should be competitive
  • Pretty much universally disliked by other cities
  • Primary "bad guy" (Al Davis/Barry Bonds) is a shell of his former self
  • Cool unis still mean lots of merchandise sales
The answer: Ryan Klesko. The question: Doesn't matter. (.312/.395/.477 as of 6/7/07)

by Goofus on Jun 11, 2007 1:21 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Another modest proposal
I quibble with one small point, we know that Barry is still alive, he is playing at least. I am not sure that Al Davis is.
I adopted Barry Bonds

by BondsApologist on Jun 11, 2007 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Another modest proposal
Since Davis probably wears Depends at this point and since Grant once described Bonds' running as that of a toddler with a full diaper, perhaps they're actually the same person.  Come to think of it, I've never seen them in the same room.

If the Giants trade for Dukes, that would be a Raideresque move in at its purest (and extremely disappointing), but in fairness, it was the Niners who signed Lawrence Phillips.  

The answer: Ryan Klesko. The question: Doesn't matter. (.312/.395/.477 as of 6/7/07)

by Goofus on Jun 11, 2007 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Another modest proposal
Bonds has better hair than Davis.
Jesse Foppert: Welcome home, my son. And meet your adopted brother, Kelvin Pichardo. He's from the Dominican Republic.

by leftymalo on Jun 11, 2007 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Another modest proposal
The only problem with this proposal is that the D'Rays are actually loaded with pitching prospects.  Did you get a load of Andy Sonnanstine's performance yesterday?  Well, there's a lot more where that came from.  Add in David Price, who should be ready at least as fast as Tim Lincecum was, well, the D'Rays actually don't need to trade with anyone. They could be the powerhouse of the division as early as next year or 2009 at the latest.

by DrBGiantsfan on Jun 11, 2007 11:43 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

If TB was a stock, I would buy it
This team is going to be good soon and for a long time. Loads of talent EVERYWHERE and under new ownership. SF should be around to pick up whatever TB may discard.

by wilriv21 on Jun 11, 2007 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Another modest proposal
I'D hit it.

It had to be said.

Mandowear | comics | Sugarman FTW

by Natto on Jun 11, 2007 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Another modest proposal
I'd hit it with a car.
Strikeouts are boring. Besides that, they're fascist. Not boring: Emmanuel Burriss. Not fascist: SF Dugout

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jun 11, 2007 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Can we PLEASE make a run at Crawford?
Can we please make a run at him?  Something centered around Lowry / Sanchez for a legit 3 hitter is fine with me.  We still have our three aces in Barry, Matt and Tiny Tim.

Furhter, can Moris be dealt while his value is still high?  

Finally, are we going to make a run at Texiera in the offseason?  A 27 year old guy who can hit you 30 homers, knock in 100 rbi, and hit about 285-300 sounds like solution in the making for the Giants PB (post Bonds).

by CEO of the William VanLandingham FanClub on Jun 11, 2007 1:31 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Can we PLEASE make a run at Crawford?
Tex isn't a free agent until after '08, actually. And I don't think we have the chips to acquire both him and Crawford via trade.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Jun 11, 2007 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Can we PLEASE make a run at Crawford?
You're thinking too small.  Until we get a guy who can hit 70 HR a season with an OPS of 1.3 or so, it's just not worth committing.  Until that time we will rent older experienced players, to hopefully stay competitive barring injury, or stupidity, or a sudden sharp foreseeable decline in production.

by paboperfecto on Jun 11, 2007 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Can we PLEASE make a run at Crawford?
I don't like the nickname Tiny Tim for Lincecum.

Tiny Tim was a cripple and died. The reference is deeply flawed. Do you want Tim Lincecum to cripple and die?

Coming to you by proxy (I adopted: Dave Righetti!)

by howtheyscored on Jun 11, 2007 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Can we PLEASE make a run at Crawford?
No, but his opponents will!
Mandowear | comics | Sugarman FTW

by Natto on Jun 11, 2007 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bless The Fastball and pass the Roast Goose
Agreed that we all can do better than to use the weak and diminutive moniker Tiny Tim.

For instance, Tiny Toy Cannon, though also derivative, is much the more apt description.

And in fairness to the text by Charles Dickens, Tiny Tim only appeared to die in a dream sequence of A Christmas Carol.

In the rousing closing scene, Tim was to be the main beneficiary of Ebeneezer Magowan's...er Scrooge's...newfound generosity.

"God Bless Us, Everyone!"

(Especially young pitchers who fire away with no offensive support.)

by Moggeee on Jun 12, 2007 9:43 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bless The Fastball and pass the Roast Goose
I thought we settled this a long time ago:

The Enchanter

Hack Leonard could beat up Chuck Norris

by DiegoGiant on Jun 12, 2007 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

After Tim came up Tiny in his last effort...
Consider the fanbase The DisEnchanted.

by Moggeee on Jun 15, 2007 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hmmm....
Interesting proposal.  It does seem only fair to offer Tampa Bay this opportunity, since SF did leave them at the altar in 1992.

by achiappanza on Jun 11, 2007 2:44 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Another modest proposal
I think it would work almost just as well with the Rockies, to be honest-- and it would seem more dramatic.  Make it just for two players: Rockies want Lincecum and Cain, Giants are after Holliday and Helton/Hawpe/Atkins (your choice).  Best of seven series played at a neutral site.

If the Giants won, a lineup of:

  1. Winn, CF
  2. Durham, 2B
  3. Holliday, RF
  4. Bonds, LF
  5. Helton, 1B
  6. Molina, C
  7. Feliz, 3B
  8. Vizquel, SS
Could really rake.  Gotta love that 1-6.  

Eh, who am I kidding, I'd rather have the D-Rays players too, just thought I'd be interesting and propose a different swap.

Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...

by Smoke on the Water on Jun 11, 2007 3:14 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Another modest proposal
how about the d-backs instead?
In Soviet Russia, save blows Benitez!

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Jun 11, 2007 6:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Another modest proposal
We don't need Scott Kazmir. Sure he's a lefty and a great pitcher. But we've got Noah who can be a fifth starter or play right field. The giants need hitting. Face it, they suck at it.  Anyway, good picks grant
West Sunset Baseball. Number 1 for like, 40 years running

by K on Jun 11, 2007 8:49 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

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