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RU-49

Thumb_tiny by Grant on in News

FYI: The following Peanuts strips were not altered in any way. Charles Schulz was just that good.

I'll admit it. Just about every one of my Benitez Photoshops -- like Trumando or Animando -- are thought of independent of an Armando blown save. I'll make them, giggle a bit, and then wait like a vulture for the next blown save. Sometimes, I have to wait an entire offseason. I consider myself prepared for the failure. There is a bit of a ghoulish ambulance-chasing quality to it, but that's part of the job. If a quip or an insight can't be had, a silly little picture might do.

Allow me to switch gears for a moment, and I'll tie it all together. Everyone knows what Charlie Brown stands for. He's the ultimate loser. Every time he tries to fly a kite, it's eaten by a kite-eating tree. Every time he tries to kick a football, it's pulled away. So, if you're creating a situation where the ultimate loser is trying to close out a baseball game, how can you possibly have him blow it in super-loser fashion?

A home run? Bah. Even Eck gave up the homer to Kirk Gibson. Robb Nen walked off several different fields as opposing players circled the bases.

No, it would have to be something so ridiculous, yet so plausible, that it would convey the Ultimate Blown Save for the last person who should have been on the mound in the first place.

Seriously. Why was there any reason to have that strip in my collection of pictures? There wasn't. It's a ridiculous situation that would be impossible to imagine actually happening. Yet it happened. And I had to dig through Peanuts collection after Peanuts collection, hoping I could find it. I have about ten different Benitez-mocking pictures in the archives; other readers have contributed even more. But that strip was the one we needed to have on call. Luck of the draw, but I failed to foresee just how low Armando could sink.

Armando Benitez can not pitch under pressure. A closer's job is to pitch under pressure. It's like having a police officer who doesn't believe in using force, or a veterinarian with a fear of dogs. The Mets fans were being loud and insulting; Armando wanted to shut them up. He couldn't. It was the Ultimate Blown Save for the last person who should have been on the mound in the first place.

You had to admire it in a way. It was kind of artistic.

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Re: RU-49
Seriously - just legendary. Absolutely legendary.
Barry Zito: Mike Hampton with a guitar

by JakeS on May 30, 2007 10:11 AM PDT   0 recs

Re: RU-49
My thoughts exactly. I haven't laughed so hard in a VERY long time. Kudos, Grant. Perhaps the Giants could pick up on Grant's idea and give, say, the first 20,000 attending the next home game bats, balls and gloves for to pelt A.B. next time he takes the mound.

by tomofcda on May 30, 2007 11:37 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: RU-49
If I get to throw a bat at Blownitez, I'll be happy to bring my own.
Proud adoptive father of the All-Father and his 1.99 ERA

by EliminateMe on May 30, 2007 11:47 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: RU-49
I have the feeling I should save the Sporting Green article and tell the story to my grandchildren someday.

by NinthWithoutNen on May 30, 2007 10:13 AM PDT   0 recs

WOW
At a certain point, we'll just have to embrace it. "Armando is my Co-Pilot" shirts, and that kind of stuff.
Succumb to Tiny Tim! Adopted dad of Minor Izzy

by hairball on May 30, 2007 10:50 AM PDT   0 recs

Somehow
"My Boss is an Incompetent Dominican Baseball Player" doesn't quite have the same ring.
Bruce Bochy gets his big head from me.

by Stuttering John Tamargo on May 30, 2007 11:07 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: RU-49
I still have the same thought I've had for years (and I'm sure I've said in some way on this site at least a few times before): if you have a guy who handles pressure well, has great stuff, and can get Ks almost at will, then it might be worth it to have him close (but still not for a lot of money). Otherwise, I think the position of closer shouldn't even exist, because it puts too much constant stress on one pitcher. The ninth shouldn't be looked at any different than any other inning. If it helps, just look at the ninth as if it's the eighth. If the guy who pitched the (actual) eighth is throwing well, leave him in. If someone emerges as someone who does well late in games, put him in more in the eighth and let him pitch into the ninth.

by Josh from The New Giant Thrill on May 30, 2007 10:55 AM PDT   0 recs

Re: RU-49
"if you have a guy who handles pressure well, has great stuff, and can get Ks almost at will, then it might be worth it to have him close"

We have one little funny guy who fits that description, and he is currently thriving as a starter. I think Tiny Tim would be the best closer in the NL if given a chance, but I'm not sure I want him to be given a chance. The fact that I even ever think about it is a testament to the direness of the Giants' predicament, considering how awesome Tim has been as a starter (8-0 in professional ball).

Succumb to Tiny Tim! Adopted dad of Minor Izzy

by hairball on May 30, 2007 11:09 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: RU-49
I'll take 7IP, 3ER with the potential for no-hit or shutout every five days over a save everyday.  This is especially true if there is someone else in the rotation that is doing the same thing as well and the rest of the rotation is pretty rock solid.

by sfgfan on May 30, 2007 11:41 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: RU-49
dont forget 8 Ks :)
I nominate Common Sense as the new GM of the San Francisco Giants.

by fanofvanlandingham on May 30, 2007 11:47 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: RU-49
I couldn't possibly agree more.  Closer has become far and away the most overvalued position in the game, and the Giants' GM is a firm believer in it.  You see sloughs of new closers developed every year because they're solid relievers on teams that haven't paid out the ear for a "proven closer."

Than, the newly developed closer becomes a free agent, and cashes in from one of the many GMs that do insist on having a "proven closer."  I'm not against having one designated person to pitch the ninth, but not at the price they're coming.  For Armando to be worth what he's making, he'd have to have a 100% save percentage.

by ololo3 on May 30, 2007 11:53 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Closer by committee
The problem is that each time a team tries the closer-by-comittee method, i.e. no closer, they tend not to be successful.  Or at least they aren't perceived as successful.  I think Boston tried this last.

Anyhow, you know an old school team like the Giants aren't going to attempt this.  Best (and fairly likely) scenario is to get rid of Benitez by any means possible, probably DFA, and promote one of Ortiz-Hennessey-Correia to closer.  I would guess Ortiz, since he's the most old school.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." - Jimi Hendrix

by GiantJim on May 30, 2007 12:04 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Closer by committee
The problem with closer-by-committees that have been attempted so far is that the teams didn't use particularly good relievers to implement them.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on May 30, 2007 12:12 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Closer by committee
Right, or committees have just had bad luck in their implimentation. Doesn't mean it couldn't work.  But the fact that it hasn't worked in the small sample of attempts, means that a team like the Giants will never try it.
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." - Jimi Hendrix

by GiantJim on May 30, 2007 12:16 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Closer by committee
I can't say I'd agree with that. I'd say we already tried it in 2004.  That's how we got into this Armandomess.

by Roger on May 30, 2007 12:35 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Closer by committee
I guess you're right, but only be default, not by pre-meditation.  The year you are referring to, 2004, the job was initially given to Matt Herges after Rob Nenn couldn't come back from surgery and certain people were traded for a catcher.  After Herges bombed out, it was given to Brower.  By the time Brower bombed, Felipe was using his revolving door theory.  I can't really remember who, if anybody, he settled on.

But in retrospect the Giants would have been better off sticking with Felipe's wacky carosel than spending the money on Mando.  No that that was easy to predict.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." - Jimi Hendrix

by GiantJim on May 30, 2007 1:14 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Closer by committee
We ended up with Dustin Hermanson who did a serviceable job but was overworked (as usual).
Mandowear | comics | Sugarman FTW

by Natto on May 30, 2007 1:51 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Closer by committee
Right.  Already seems so long ago.
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." - Jimi Hendrix

by GiantJim on May 30, 2007 2:15 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Closer by committee
It doesn't necessarily have to remain closer by committee, though.  Once a member of the committee proves himself worthy, he could be moved into the closer role.  I mean mathematically, I can't imagine this method would lead to more losses given that the team would be able to spend the money they WOULD have spent on the "proven closer" on another high priced player that contributes more than just one inning every few games.

by ololo3 on May 30, 2007 12:25 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Closer by committee
Exactly. Pitchers go through slumps the same way hitters do, and it doesn't make too much sense to have the same pitcher pitch in the most important part of the game in every save situation unless he's dominant pretty much all of the time. Let the position evolve naturally over the year. If someone steps up, pitch him later in the games and into the ninth...

by Josh from The New Giant Thrill on May 30, 2007 1:21 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Closer by committee
What you're describing - going with the hot hand and replacing him when he gets cold - is closer by committee.
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." - Jimi Hendrix

by GiantJim on May 30, 2007 1:38 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: RU-49
I've been for that... the '70s version of closing.  But if you are attached to closers, I've seen studies that the most effective use is with -1, 0, or +1 run differentials, not 1-3.

by achiappanza on May 30, 2007 2:21 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: RU-49
That's not the 70's.  The 70's had a defined closer, only until Bruce Sutter, they would pitch up to 2 or 3 innings at a time.  I think you have to go back to the 30's when there wasn't a defined closer, but at that time there were only a couple of relievers on each team.

The order of effectiveness is +1, 0, -1.  It becomes fairly random when there is a two run or greater differential, so there's no point in using your best pitcher at that point.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." - Jimi Hendrix

by GiantJim on May 30, 2007 2:38 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: RU-49
It is likely that the old concept of the fireman was a better concept than the closer.  For instace, Roy Face once went something like 18-1 with 10 or 12 saves in that role.

The difference was that the fireman often came in earlier in the game and pitched more innings.  One of the problems with the present closer role is that sometimes situations arise in which they are overused -- while during many other times they have to be brought into two- or three-run save situation or even non-save situations to keep them from getting rusty.

I guess the advantage of the closer has been that some pitchers have been able to be VERY dominant by pitching only very short stretches.  I guess if a team consistently comes up with one-inning, one-run save situations, the closer concept could work well.  But since such high-leverage situations aren't either that common or that regular, closers often get used in too many low-leverage situations.

Personally, I used to like the days when relievers came in with no outs and the bases loaded and really EARNED their saves.  I think that unless a team has a highly-dominant closer who is getting consistent high-leverage save opportunities, that team might benefit more from if nothing else, using its closer in longer-inning situations.   That would give him higher leverage when he was used.  It also would make him UNavailable more often, which would then force the team to get creative with its other pitchers in occasionally closing out games.  That should have the added advantage of having other pitchers somewhat trained if the primary closer were to go down with injury and need to be replacd.

I think in baseball, most things are done because that is the way everyone else does them or because they have been done that way for a long time.  I think the sport would benefit from re-examining the WHY'S of what it does, which could result in some changes in the HOW.

But I think far too many baseball men are about as creative as a gelding.

by sharksrog on May 30, 2007 4:10 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: RU-49
As you know, baseball strategy really does change over time, but when it changes, everybody changes with it.  Nobody bucks the trend.  It seems to be game managed by lemmings. The "book" is constantly rewritten, but once it is, managers feel that the penalty is capital punishment if they deviate from the norm.  Although somebody must deviate or there would never be any changes.

Relief pitching is a great example of that.  100 years ago there was one relief pitcher per team who pitched when the other pitchers got injured.  Eventually there became dedicated relief pitchers, who came in because they were pitching better than the starters in late innings.  As you stated, there were periods when the #1 relief pitcher would come in the 4th or 5th inning, when the starter didn't have it and just finish the game.

Now, the best relief pitcher comes in at the beginning of the 9th inning, for only one inning, and when there is a save situation (1 - 3 run lead).  Occasionally in a tie game at home.  Often the #2 and #3 relief pitchers throw in more meaningful situations.

The strategy will change from here.  It always does.  The question is how?

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." - Jimi Hendrix

by GiantJim on May 30, 2007 5:08 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

One of these things is not like the other
I believe closing is more about attitude than stuff. Nen or Beck would go out there without their A stuff, and still get it done. I really think Lidge lost his edge when Pujols hit that homer off him in the NLCS. Completely shattered the guy, and he hasn't been right since.

You can't just say you're the biggest badass there is when you go out there. You have to believe it, act it, be it, do it. Beck and Nen had that. Lidge lost it. Mando doesn't have it, if he did at all. Thus Mando does not belong there.

Strikeouts are boring. Besides that, they're fascist. Not boring: Emmanuel Burriss. Not fascist: SF Dugout

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on May 30, 2007 2:58 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: One of these things is not like the other
There is a huge mental aspect to it, and I think the comments here underestimate what it takes to close games.....no doubt we're a spurned bunch right now.  

These guys get paid the big bucks because they deal with extraordinary pressure.  Not a situation you want to be using mere mortals in every night, you want a banger back there.

Thing is, as far as I can tell these guys can be found just about every year, either internally or from other teams' castoffs (combined with terrific scouting).  Signing Benitez for this kind of money should get Sabean fired, along with about 20 other moves in the last five years.

by Stoned Slacker on May 30, 2007 3:43 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: One of these things is not like the other
Through the end of the 2002 season, Brian's moves generally turned out BRILLIANTLY (or if not, at least neutrally).  But since that season ended, he has made more poor moves than good ones.  Somehow his luck just seemed to run out.

As Brian said after making the Matt Williams trade (which didn't bother me, by the way), "I am not an idiot."  And he's not.

Unfortunately, he's not a genius, either.

by sharksrog on May 30, 2007 4:12 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: One of these things is not like the other
Assuming this was true - how could you tell?
If you look at numbers, it's going to be very hard to conclude that a (bad) closer was bad because he was bad or because he didn't like 9th inning juju.

If you just observe players - you are not likely to get the sample size of players you need to accurately judge this.

by zenbitz on May 31, 2007 11:32 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: RU-49
Wow, that comic was actually painful.  Good ole' Peanuts.

This offseason, there needs to be a new television special made: "An Armando Benitez Christmas."

Mando could spend weeks hyping his children up on what a wonderful Christmas morning they're going to have - all the presents they could possibly want, etc.  He promises his wife that he'll do all the shopping this year, and although she's surprised by his seeming change of heart, she agrees.

Then, when Christmas day comes, the kids rush out only to find a room completely devoid of presents.  Their hearts are broken, and when Mando's wife angrily asks him how he could have forgotten to provide the Christmas he promised for his children, he just shrugs, and tells her "It ain't my fault.  You think it's easy being a father?  You want to blame someone, blame Santa Claus for not actually existing."

Then, "Hark! The Herald Angels Sing" plays as the credits roll.

by ololo3 on May 30, 2007 11:46 AM PDT   0 recs

Re: RU-49
Maybe there's a flashback to Christmas Eve, as Mando frantically tries to find a store that's open so he can get his shopping done.

"It's not my fault," he'll say later.  "The mall was out of position."

Steve Kline: He's pretty okay!

by groug on May 30, 2007 11:50 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: RU-49
Ooh, I like that, because then, he can smugly insist: "I did my job."

by ololo3 on May 30, 2007 11:58 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: RU-49
I hear Charlie Brown has 17 saves and a 1.90 ERA at single-A Salem-Keizer.

I'm just sayin'.

Tim Lincecum is the light and truth, and I will enjoy becoming pure energy when he determines it is time to ascend.

by HughG16 on May 30, 2007 11:50 AM PDT   0 recs

Re: RU-49
What are you talking about?

Nathan came on in the 12th and shut down the Mets and we won.  Man, that was awesome.

by sfmaynard on May 30, 2007 11:54 AM PDT   0 recs

Re: RU-49
Yeah, good job by Joe.  He looked a little tired though.  Maybe he should get the night off tonight and Bochy can let Accardo pitch if there's a save situation.

by Mike Benjamin Hit King on May 30, 2007 11:58 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: RU-49
It's a good thing Bad Vlad hit that grand slam to put us ahead!
Mandowear | comics | Sugarman FTW

by Natto on May 30, 2007 12:11 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: RU-49
Yeah, and Linc was keeping pace with Zito. I can't believe the Mets gave him that ridiculous contract.
The bright side: Brian Sabean should be out of a job in a few months.

by Punch Rockgroin on May 30, 2007 2:53 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: RU-49
SNAFU--Situation Normal, Armando Fucked Up.  

by getnby on May 30, 2007 12:09 PM PDT   0 recs

Very nice
FUBAR - Failure Upon Bringing in Armando to Relieve
Bruce Bochy gets his big head from me.

by Stuttering John Tamargo on May 30, 2007 12:35 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: RU-49
ROTFL - Roll Out the Fishing Lines
(This one's over and we're going home.)

by achiappanza on May 30, 2007 2:28 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: RU-49
My wife doesn't understand, not can she play, baseball in any shape or form.  OK, she can play a little catch, but THAT's IT.  She's looking for a part time job this summer.  I'm thinking closer, OK?  How bad could she be?

by getnby on May 30, 2007 12:18 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: RU-49
Can she blow saves at the major league level?

If she can do that without throwing her teammates under the bus, that's an improvement over what we've got...

by sfmaynard on May 30, 2007 12:49 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: RU-49
Bring back Wayne Franklin.
Lindsey Nelson sucks! - anonymous drunk Giants fan

by John Tamargo on May 30, 2007 12:21 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: RU-49
12/1/2004
Free agent Armando Benitez and the San Francisco Giants agreed to a three-year contract Tuesday, a move that stabilizes the club's closer role that's been in flux since Robb Nen got injured two years ago.

"He's the prototype," general manager Brian Sabean said. "He has been and will be a dominant force at the end of the game. ... He's a guy we had our eye on."

Lindsey Nelson sucks! - anonymous drunk Giants fan

by John Tamargo on May 30, 2007 12:28 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: RU-49
For the mathematiclaly challenged, what the above recap from 2 years ago means is that we have now been waiting 5 years to stabilize the closer's role.
Lindsey Nelson sucks! - anonymous drunk Giants fan

by John Tamargo on May 30, 2007 12:30 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: RU-49
I was excited about Armando when we first signed him.

His 2004 season, he was 47/51 in saves/opps.  His WHIP was .818!  That is better than the best seasons by Rivera or Smoltz or Nen.

Benitez has been an absolutely dominant closer before, but never in a Giants uniform.

by sfmaynard on May 30, 2007 12:58 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: RU-49
Sigh, I was waiting for these to pop up.
Park, Park Wherever you may be You eat dogs in your home country But it could be worse, you could be scouse Eating rats in your council house

by Tajiri on May 30, 2007 12:40 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: RU-49
Sorry.
Made me feel better to look back and realize that we only have 4 more months of this guy (unless Sabean sacks up now).
Lindsey Nelson sucks! - anonymous drunk Giants fan

by John Tamargo on May 30, 2007 12:47 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: RU-49
If Blownitez was trying to emulate Charlie Brown, he blew that chance too. He was supposed to wait until the CHAMPIONSHIP. That balk was the only thing missing from a certain game 6 I have trouble remembering.
I did MY job.

by MeSoKrabby on May 30, 2007 12:52 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: RU-49
At least ol' Chuck is loveable.
Mandowear | comics | Sugarman FTW

by Natto on May 30, 2007 1:12 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: RU-49
RU-49? Birth Control Device.
Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son.

by Rude thoughtless little pig on May 30, 2007 1:42 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: RU-49
Benitez is making Tyler Walker and Matt Herges look serviceable. I see nothing to loose by using Russ in the closers spot. Yes he nibbles a lot, but he has always worked his way out of walks. It's when he's walking people and getting hit is when he gets in trouble, and so far in relief, he isn't getting hit.
Russ handles pressure way better than Benitez.

http://giantsbaseballblog.blogspot.com/

http://giantsbaseballblog.blogspot.com/

by trecole696 on May 30, 2007 1:45 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: RU-49
I do think that Armando is on a very short leash, at this point.  From a public relations perspective, he's assualting their fan base.  And Magowen, Sabean and co. are very cognizant of these things.
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." - Jimi Hendrix

by GiantJim on May 30, 2007 2:20 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: RU-49
The thing is, Russ is the first alternate for the starting rotation.  It would be better to close with someone who could be the long run solution.

Unless of course Russ is lights out as a closer.  Last night's scare makes me doubt that.

by achiappanza on May 30, 2007 2:41 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: RU-49
His biggest mistake was not charging Balkin' Bob Davidson after the game was tied.

Solve SO many problems:

  1. Giants have a chance to get out of the inning and go to the 13th
  2. Benitez hopefully suspended for season w/out pay for assaulting umpire
  3. Davidson killed

by zenbitz on May 30, 2007 1:57 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: RU-49
Win, win, win situation!
We won the Football League again, this time on Merseyside

by Tajiri on May 30, 2007 2:25 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: RU-49
The gun says 91? He wishes! (ha!)
Coming to you by proxy (I adopted: Dave Righetti!)

by howtheyscored on May 30, 2007 11:33 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: RU-49
91 is actually the number of bullets in the six-shooter he plays Russian roulette with.
Proud adoptive father of the All-Father and his 1.99 ERA

by EliminateMe on May 31, 2007 10:22 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: RU-49
http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/benitar01.shtml

I love how baseball reference has Armando's weight as 180lbs.  

Who dat is? That's just Ortmeier's daddy.

by rotorueter on May 30, 2007 2:06 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: RU-49
Listed weight: Real weight:: Bengie Glove location: 'Mando pitch location

by GiantQuacker on May 30, 2007 2:24 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: RU-49
I signed on to this blog JUST SO I COULD RIP ON BENITEZ. I can't stand this guy anymore. for three years we have had to put up with him and his fat, lazy ass. What's worse, he does all these facial contortions and body language when he's out on the mound. Is this guy not a professional? Is he not being paid like 10 mil a year to do the job of CLOSING out ball games? yet he is out there throwing fat juicy meatballs over the plate that don't break, eating fat juicy meatballs as he gets fatter and fatter, and making up excuses for his performance and doing goofy contortions and body language.

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!!

by ih8benitez on May 30, 2007 2:31 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: RU-49
why can't they put Hennessey in the closer spot for the rest of this season? and then when Bonds is gone next year, that will free up a ton of scrilla to actually re-tool the club and go out and get a viable closer (along with some other decent players who can maybe hit a little).

by ih8benitez on May 30, 2007 2:34 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: RU-49
Dumb
Overweight
Unable to throw strikes
Callous
Heavy
Emotional and Expensive

by ih8benitez on May 30, 2007 2:37 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: RU-49
Sounds like my first girlfriend (except she could throw strikes)
Lindsey Nelson sucks! - anonymous drunk Giants fan

by John Tamargo on May 30, 2007 3:14 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: RU-49
SCUBA--San (Francisco) Can't Use Benitez Anymore

by getnby on May 30, 2007 2:50 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: RU-49
When Giants fans get down on a player (such as Mark Gardner, Marvin Benard, Shawon Dunston, Livan Hernandez and now Armando Benitez) in recent years, they are unrelenting, seemingly regardless of the facts.

What did all those players have in common (with the possible exception of Dunston, even though surprisingly had the Giants held on in game six of the 2002 World Series, Shawon would have been a hero in his final game as a Giant)?  They had their problems -- but not as many as Giants fans made them out to have.

When it comes to players that get in our doghouse, there is no longer any gray area.  They are just flat-out EVIL.  And unless they play really well for a really long time, we just aren't going to see anything but black.

by sharksrog on May 30, 2007 3:40 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: RU-49
While I don't disagree with you, a key difference between those players and Mando is attitude.  Giants fans grew to hate Gardner, Hernandez, Vizcaino, Notgardo, etc, based purely on their weak on-field performance.

With Mando, you've got not only weak on-field performance, but he acts like a pure asshole both on and off the field.  If you're a great player, we can tolerate a bad attitude (see: Bonds), but if you suck as a ballplayer, and suck even more as a human being...

Basically Benitez actually IS evil.

by ololo3 on May 30, 2007 3:46 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: RU-49
I assume you mean ED-gardo?
Bruce Bochy gets his big head from me.

by Stuttering John Tamargo on May 30, 2007 3:56 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: RU-49
Yep, that's what I meant.  My fingers apparently weren't on the same page, though...

Thanks for the correction.

by ololo3 on May 30, 2007 4:04 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: RU-49
I didn't hate any of those guys like I do Benitez. Dunston and VizII were just annoying as washed-up husks of once decent ballplayers. Gardner and Benard I always pulled for. Livan I came to dislike, but not like Mando. Pierzynski is the only one who comes anywhere close as an object of disgust.
Proud adoptive father of the All-Father and his 1.99 ERA

by EliminateMe on May 30, 2007 4:50 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: RU-49
And remember, everyone, Pierzynski kneed the trainer in the nuts.

So,, also an asshole off the field, in addition to grounding into approximately 536,000 double plays.

Steve Kline: He's pretty okay!

by groug on May 30, 2007 4:52 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: RU-49
Here are the facts on Armando Benitez as a Giant:

he was signed to a 3 year deal worth 21.5 million

He's pitched 85.6 total innings.
His WHIP as a Giant is 1.48.
He's allowed 14 HR (1.47 HR/9... a high mark for a closer)
He's gotten 45 saves (probably the amount he should be getting in one season!) while blowing 14, for a 76% save percentage (not good.)
He has blamed his teammates for blown saves and poor outings and has irritating antics on the mound. Generally carries himself like someone who is much better than he actually is.

I don't know... seems pretty rational to hate the guy. Sabean is paying him to be a lights-out closer and he's really been anything but. If he was pitching lights-out, but with a few horrendous blown saves, I would agree with you. But he's not. He's been pretty consistently bad (especially for a closer making relief ace money) and has been prone to absolutely horrific outings. Even his saves usually involve unnecessary amounts of drama.

Quite frankly, I don't agree with you on the case of Armando Benitez at all.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on May 30, 2007 10:18 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Wait, wait, wait, wait....

So that Peanuts cartoon was an original from Schultz?  

If so, that's some Nostradamus shit.

Hitler was a Dodgers fan.

by The Nick on May 31, 2007 1:00 AM PDT   0 recs

Re: Wait, wait, wait, wait....
The only thing I had to do was scan and resize it.

by Grant on May 31, 2007 8:18 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Wait, wait, wait, wait....
Good Lord.  If only Schultz were alive to see his comically implausible event come to fruition.  
Hitler was a Dodgers fan.

by The Nick on May 31, 2007 10:30 PM PDT