Sweeney v. Ellison: Steel Cage Match
It all goes back to politics. Barry Bonds told someone that Mark Sweeney invited him over, put "Sister Christian" on the hi-fi, and forced two duffel bags of amphetamines in Bonds' car as Chad Santos lit firecrackers off inside the house. There was a whole foofarah about it, Sweeney denied it all, Bonds apologized for even hinting at such a thing, and the team moved on. That was it.
Except that the Giants don't need Mark Sweeney now. He's a lefty who can't play anything but first and left, and the Giants already have the store-brand variety with Ryan Klesko. When a spot start is needed at first, Aurilia is on the bench and Feliz can always slide over to first in a pinch. Bruce Bochy isn't big on letting Dave Roberts start against lefties, so a right-handed center fielder would make all kinds of sense. Maybe Todd Linden could be that center fielder, but he isn't anyone's idea of a defensive whiz at a corner. He could be brutal in center.
Jason Ellison tore up the PCL last season, and he had an amazing spring training last March. He's having another great spring, and it's possible that the only poor offensive stretch he's had in the past year was 85 major league at-bats scattered over 83 games in six months. After his torrid spring in `06, he had six at-bats in April, and 19 in May. It's easy to give him a pass for those limited and scattered at-bats.
Ellison isn't a world-beater. He isn't ever going to be a starter on a good team, and he's probably a fringe bench player on a good bench. But he fits a need for this incarnation of the Giants, and there's that 5% chance that maybe - just maybe - the .400 hitter from Fresno is for real. Ellison is out of options, so he'll likely be with another organization if he doesn't break with the team in April.
So, if Ellison continues his huge spring - and it's obviously still early - the Giants have a decision to make. Trading Sweeney could be a public relations disaster, but he doesn't really have a spot on this team. The Ellison fan club around here could meet in a phone booth, but I can see him putting up .270/.340/.400 for several years at the major league minimum. That's the long-term view, but in the short term he's also a perfect complement for Dave Roberts.
There are probably more than a few teams who could use Sweeney as a pinch-hitting specialist. I just don't see how the Giants are one of them, and I hope the furor has died down enough for him to be traded. The phone booth is open, and I've brought artichoke dip.
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Re: Sweeney v. Ellison: Steel Cage Match
The Giants should and will choose Sweeney over Ellison. Jason will then move onto another team, where he'll undoubtedly rake the ball, make Sports Center's "Web Gems" at least 10 times this season, and fill us all with a deep sense of regret. That's the way it usually works.
by Kitspool on Mar 8, 2007 1:31 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Sweeney v. Ellison: Steel Cage Match
Ellison does indeed make a decent complement to the lefty-hitting Dave Roberts, who probably shouldn't be playing much against southpaws, but Linden can also replace Roberts. Still, Ellison's versatility and his likely being the only purely righthanded hitter in the outfield has value as the Giants fifth outfielder.
One could also make an argument for Lance Niekro as the only purely righthanded bat on the bench aside from Eliezer Alfonzo, who would likely pinch hit only in the ninth inning.
The answer to facilitating more of these bats would seem to be sending Kevin Frandsen back to Fresno to work on being a more patient hitter, waiting for more pitches he can drive, and to work on his defense on the left side of the infield. In the event of an injury to Ray Durham, he could be recalled to back up Rich Aurilia at the keystone or to start at the position.
The second step would be to limit the pitching staff to 11 pitchers. Keep in mind that those fans who are in their 30's or more can remember when teams somehow got by on as few as 10 hurlers. While it likely isn't a good idea to stretch out the Giants starters, a more prudent usage of the bullpen could seeming allow a team to get by rather well with "only" 11 pitchers.
Assuming Russ Ortiz is the #5 starter, that would still leave a bullpen of Hennessey, Correia, Kline, Chulk, Sanchez and either Wilson or Sadler -- assuming Benitez is traded.
Is it really necessary to limit most relievers to a single inning? And is it necessary to make so many lefty-righty switches?
Given that major-league rosters used to be made up only 40% of pitchers, is it really an effective use of talent to have 48% of the spots on a roster occupied by pitchers? Wouldn't 44% make a nice compromise?
by sharksrog on Mar 8, 2007 1:36 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Sweeney v. Ellison: Steel Cage Match
by hairball on Mar 8, 2007 2:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Lefty/righty fetish
It's all bullcrap. Managers don't (usually) juggle their STARTING rotation to match the other team's lineup; why is it all of a sudden so crucial in the 8th and 9th inning if it didn't matter in the first 7 innings? (Yes, it happens on extremely rare occasions that a manager will skip a starter for perceived strategic reasons, but it's rare and it's not proveable that it helps.)
by Mayor of 311 on Mar 9, 2007 10:44 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Lefty/righty fetish
by JakeS on Mar 9, 2007 11:23 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Sweeney v. Ellison: Steel Cage Match
I'm still not convinced that Klesko can come back at all, though. Maybe they can go with ten pitchers for a few weeks till they see how Klesko's shaping up.
by Evan on Mar 8, 2007 1:37 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Sweeney v. Ellison: Steel Cage Match
On the other hand, he'll only bring one scuffed ball in trade, whereas Sweeney might bring two bags of brand new balls.
by allfrank on Mar 8, 2007 1:45 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Sweeney v. Ellison: Steel Cage Match
Brring, brring!
Billy Beane: Hello?
Brian Sabean: Billy! MoneyBilly! BillyB!
BB: Sigh. Hi Brian.
BS: Hey, just perusing the ol' Arizona Republic, and I saw...
BB: I'll take Ellison and Jonathan Sanchez for Marco Scutaro.
BS: Wha...how did you know I was going to ask...
BB: OK, OK, you're killing me, my bad, see what I get for trying to outfox you. Ellison and Sanchez, throw in that utility whatsisname, Frandsen, and you can have Scutaro AND Chad Bradford.
BS: But...Bradford...isn't he...
BB: Did I say Bradford? Sorry -- Gaudin. Chad Gaudin. Good looking kid. He's not really French, it just sounds like it.
etc.
by leftymalo on Mar 8, 2007 2:03 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Sweeney v. Ellison: Steel Cage Match
by JakeS on Mar 8, 2007 2:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Sweeney v. Ellison: Steel Cage Match
by lyricalkiller on Mar 8, 2007 2:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Sweeney v. Ellison: Steel Cage Match
by E Ticket on Mar 8, 2007 2:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Sweeney v. Ellison: Steel Cage Match
by lyricalkiller on Mar 8, 2007 2:09 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Sweeney v. Ellison: Steel Cage Match
by nostocksjustbonds on Mar 8, 2007 2:33 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Sweeney v. Ellison: Steel Cage Match
With Sweeney, you know what you're going to get. His ceiling isn't as high as Ellison's. (I guess his basement isn't as low either). Anyway, I just think that, given the choice, you go with the younger guy who can run because Sweeney and Ellison will both horribly misplay balls in the outfield but at least Ellison can catch up with it faster as it rolls toward triple's alley.
Also, I kind of like the idea of playing with a pitcher-light roster so that each guy really has a defined role.
by saveuszito on Mar 8, 2007 2:40 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Sweeney v. Ellison: Steel Cage Match
by hairball on Mar 8, 2007 2:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Sweeney v. Ellison: Steel Cage Match
by howtheyscored on Mar 8, 2007 3:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Sweeney v. Ellison: Steel Cage Match
by wcovington on Mar 10, 2007 7:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Sweeney v. Ellison: Steel Cage Match
Herb Tarlick vs Les Nessman
Marlin Perkins vs Croc Hunter
WTFGAS
by E Ticket on Mar 8, 2007 2:59 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Sweeney v. Ellison: Steel Cage Match
by Grant on Mar 8, 2007 4:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Sweeney v. Ellison: Steel Cage Match
by E Ticket on Mar 8, 2007 4:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Steered in a new direction
by Moggeee on Mar 8, 2007 4:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Steered in a new direction
by nostocksjustbonds on Mar 8, 2007 5:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Quibble von Beef
by Moggeee on Mar 8, 2007 5:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Quibble von Beef
by E Ticket on Mar 8, 2007 6:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No contest
by Moggeee on Mar 8, 2007 4:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Sweeney v. Ellison: Steel Cage Match
There's no way that Marlon Perkins would go up against the Croc Hunter himself. He'd send Jim to do it, like always.
by Skaldheim on Mar 9, 2007 12:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Sweeney v. Ellison: Steel Cage Match
Nice try, Grant. Next you'll be asking us who's buried in your tomb.
by Lyle on Mar 8, 2007 3:42 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Sweeney v. Ellison: Steel Cage Match
by E Ticket on Mar 8, 2007 4:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Sweeney v. Ellison: Steel Cage Match
by wcovington on Mar 10, 2007 7:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Sweeney v. Ellison: Steel Cage Match
Ellison needs to play somewhere else. Preferably in the American League. Think Billy Beane will trade Harden for him? After all he is
by Sayhey on Mar 8, 2007 3:46 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Sweeney v. Ellison: Steel Cage Match
But beware. Better men before you have sought the secret of Magellan's Compass, and all have failed.
by howtheyscored on Mar 8, 2007 4:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Sweeney v. Ellison: Steel Cage Match
But to the real point, Sweeney is a force off the bench in late innings and Ellison is a spring training wonder who will never amount to much. Trade the latter while someone might be impressed with his stats.
by Sayhey on Mar 8, 2007 9:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Sweeney v. Ellison: Steel Cage Match
Against lefties we can have Winn play CF with Linden in right. I realize Winn is inferior against lefties , but I'll take Randy Winn vs anyone over Jason Ellison.
Give me the 2 pure lefty bats off the bench por favor. The Giants will be going with 3 inexperienced players on the bench (Frandsen, Linden, Alfonzo) all of whom have little pinch hitting experience. Then we have Klesko who has been an everyday player most of his career and will likely see lots of starts when he's healthy here.
Sweeney is a proven pinch hitter and I don't feel Ellison brings anything to the table that outweighs Sweeney's PH ability and his clubhouse presence. If Ellison were a Bill Hall type (solely in the sense that he could play INF and CF) than I might feel differently but he is not
by NeifiChicken on Mar 8, 2007 5:39 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Where did my life go wrong?
But I'll admit, it kind of depends on how Bochy deploys the roster. I'd like to see a Klesko/Aurilia/Feliz platoon at the corners where Klesko starts against most righties and Aurilia plays most of the time -- either at third or at first. This would make Sweeney the top lefty pinch hitter off the bench, a job he's well suited for.
Second, I don't think Linden's defense is all that bad. He's fine in left and right. I'm willing to tolerate Linden in center, but Winn can certainly handle that position regardless.
I say we see what kind of return a Benitez and Ellison offer would get us from the Marlins, who are desperate for a center fielder.
Also, I'm drunk.
by Dan from NM on Mar 8, 2007 7:54 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Where did my life go wrong?
by leftymalo on Mar 9, 2007 8:06 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Where did my life go wrong?
by wcovington on Mar 10, 2007 7:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Sweeney v. Ellison: Steel Cage Match
by DrBGiantsfan on Mar 8, 2007 8:34 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Sweeney v. Ellison: Steel Cage Match
If they do have to choose, I would have to go with Ellison. If we could pencil in a year like 2004 or 2005 for Sweeney, that would be different, but Sweeney wasn't that hitter in 2006 (or 2000-2003 for that matter). He's 37 and his 259 at-bats last year were a career high. He had a .565 OPS at AT&T last year, and a .373 OPS vs. lefties. (And, believe it or not: .551 as a pinch hitter.) So, basically he's an older guy with a career slugging precentage of .401 that you can't use at home, can't use vs. lefties, and don't particularly want in the field or running the bases. He can draw a walk from time to time, and he's great in the clubhouse, but I'd rather keep a more athletic player and let Tim Flannery try to keep everybody loose.
And then I'd pray that Ellison quickly gets over whatever mental block makes him unable to catch the ball or run the bases in the big leagues.
by Pants Man on Mar 9, 2007 12:27 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Sweeney v. Ellison: Steel Cage Match
The kid has some talent and tons of desire, but he goes noodles when he's in our outfield -- those painful goofs in critical situations. He needs to go somewhere else, probably following the raking-for-another-team scenario suggested by Kitspool, and probably via a harebrained trade as suggested by LeftyMalo.
Besides, the Bonds/Sweeny thing will develop into a great Martin-and-Lewis act as the season goes on...
by reeky on Mar 9, 2007 7:57 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Cholera or Dysentary?
Sweeney is pretty ineffective, despite being, I am sure, a nice fella. Ellison likewise, and frankly, I am well past tired of the excuses for Ellison of "not enough playing time" or whatever. A baseball being hit off a bat and traveling in an arc is the same phenomenon whether it occurs at AT&T Park, Fresno's park, Ellison's high school field, his Little League fields, and every point on Earth that is below 3000 feet and still on land. DEFENSE is the ONE CONSTANT in ALL sports. Ellison is and always will be a chucklehead.
And as for not getting enough playing time to improve his batting, OTHER GUYS manage to earn their way into more playing time one way or the other, but he hasn't. Therefore, the fact that he hasn't gotten enough ABs to improve his hitting is also properly placed at his (quick but randomly directed) feet.
Yes, that's right, you heard me. I called Jason Ellison a chucklehead, and I'll take on the lot of you.
by Mayor of 311 on Mar 9, 2007 10:56 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
oh, yeah--
My hope: someone impresses enough in spring training to make dumping both those guys thinkable.
by Mayor of 311 on Mar 9, 2007 10:59 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Cholera or Dysentary?
by JakeS on Mar 9, 2007 11:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Cholera or Dysentary?
this town thinks you're a bastard - Elvis Costello
by EliminateMe on Mar 9, 2007 11:44 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Cholera or Dysentary?
Before you get too worked up in your frustration with the choice of Sweeney and Ellison, let's remember that this is the 25th spot on the roster we're talking about. Let me remind you of three guys:
- Cedric Durst 248/281/353
- Julie Vera 238/273/381
- Benny Bengough 247/281/353
by Goofus on Mar 9, 2007 12:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Julie Vera... pretty sure I dated her in the 1990s
by Mayor of 311 on Mar 9, 2007 1:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Cholera or Dysentary?
by zenbitz on Mar 9, 2007 3:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Cholera or Dysentary?
by wcovington on Mar 10, 2007 7:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Sweeney v. Ellison: Steel Cage Match
I still go with Sweeney here. I think we need a reliable bat off the bench more than BBPLIDR.
this town thinks you're a bastard - Elvis Costello
by EliminateMe on Mar 9, 2007 11:43 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Sweeney v. Ellison: Steel Cage Match
by wcovington on Mar 10, 2007 7:22 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I like your thinking, Wes
by Mayor of 311 on Mar 14, 2007 8:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

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