Lincecumania
Jeff Passan wrote a piece on Tim Lincecum here, which linked to an old Cal Leaguers video here. The comments section of the YouTube video is worth the price of admission. We live in an age where the words "I read what Kevin Goldstein wrote about Lincecum...but, you know, shaunlovesboobies raises an interesting point," can almost make sense.
And the McCer who dropped the Tim the Enchanter reference did some fine work.
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Re: Lincecumania
Hmm.
I guess that makes E the guy in the raincoat hunched over in the children's section.
Re: Lincecumania
That has to be in the discussion of E/library metaphors.
by Grant Brisbee on Mar 6, 2007 10:54 PM PST up reply actions
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by E Ticket on Mar 7, 2007 8:25 AM PST up reply actions
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I've said too much.
by Grant Brisbee on Mar 7, 2007 8:58 AM PST up reply actions
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But I agree with Grant
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Zito, Lincecum, and Cain
PRAY FOR RAIN!
Yeah, it could use a little work on a metric level, but I like where it's going...
Re: Lincecumania
My prediction?
Pain!
by Grant Brisbee on Mar 6, 2007 10:51 PM PST up reply actions
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by howtheyscored on Mar 7, 2007 12:09 AM PST up reply actions
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My comment was as such:
___________
The simple act of throwing overhand puts wicked stress on the shoulder. His deliver isn't THAT radical. His arm speed matches his body speed, so as long as those two are on pace with each other I don't see any more risk for him than any other pitcher.
___________
I don't know if it's true, but it sounded right in my head. I guess that makes me about as credible as any other YouTube poster.
Re: Lincecumania
You're probably not as wrong as you think you may be.
by howtheyscored on Mar 7, 2007 12:12 AM PST up reply actions
Re: Lincecumania
Underhanded is for lobbing. Overhand is for throwing, seems the more natural order of things.
Maybe "they" have never tried to hit a moving object, or a stationery one for that matter, but throwing underhanded doesnt quite do it. I mean, have you ever seen any of those old war movies, and see a guy throw a hand grenade, like a softball?
I think what "they" mean is that throwing underhanded puts less strain on certain musculoskeletal parts. I don't think throwing underhanded is natural like it has traditionaly been implied. Less strainful maybe. But not a natural throwing motion.
I mean could you just picture Roberto Clemente going back into the right field corner and then throwing out the runner trying to go from first to third, underhanded? Or how about the 5-4-3 GIDP underhanded? Heck, even in softball, the only person throwing underhanded is the pitcher, and thats only because the rules dictate it. There is nothing in the rules that prevents a hardball pitcher from throwing underhanded. Yet nobody does. Submariner doesn't count because while the delivery is below the belt, the wrist is still outside the elbow when the ball is released, so it is still considered to be "overhand".
I'm just not sure where this underhand is supposed to be more "natural" came from. I just don't think its true. Throwing overhand is much more natural. Injury prone? I dunno. My understanding that pitching underhanded is not as strainful. I don't know. I never could throw like a girl.
by E Ticket on Mar 7, 2007 7:34 AM PST up reply actions
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Can anyone verify my theory of arm speed and body speed?
Re: Lincecumania
Willie Mays often threw submarine, although rarely when he needed to throw his hardest. Tim Lincecum comes directly over the top, although his curve ball still looks like 11-5 to me, rather than the 12-6 I've seen it described as. Maybe 11:30-5:30? :)
Of course it would be best for his curve to be 1-4 or 7-10, depending on start time.
Re: Lincecumania
I want that on a T-shirt.
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by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Mar 7, 2007 8:07 AM PST reply actions
Speaking of which...
http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/files/mechanics/discussion/controlled_fury_tim_lincecum/
Re: Speaking of which...
Re: Speaking of which...
by Punch Rockgroin on Mar 7, 2007 11:52 AM PST up reply actions
Re: Speaking of which...
Re: Lincecumania
The important thing was that Tim learn that he can't succeed by consistently throwing the ball down the middle. It appears he did that.
No one has commented on this, but after the Fresno pitching coach (perhaps an indication of where Tim will open the season) visited him after Tim gave up four hits to the first five batters, Tim proceeded to record five outs on just 16 pitches. And that was after throwing two quick balls to the next batter he faced.
By the way, on the pitch count I posted on Tim in that game, I missed two balls that he threw. Still, I'll take 21 strikes on 32 pitches from him any time (which is what he was officially recorded with. I had him with 22 strikes and 10 balls. Perhaps I misunderstood the call on a pitch over the radio.) Regardless, 21 or 22 strikes on 32 pitches is very fine. It was Tim's command of the strike zone, not his control in locating it, that did him in during that first inning.
And after the visit from the pitching coach, Tim made a fine adjustment, throwing 11 strikes on his final 16 pitches and locating them in much better places.
Re: Lincecumania
http://www.dailymotion.com/docterhojo/video/xygoc_tim-lincecum
and its enbeded in my site www.smirnoffinpaloalto.com
by smirnoff on Mar 7, 2007 6:07 PM PST reply actions
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I have a question for you regarding this video. The video makes it appear that Tim is pitching from the top of if not behind the rubber. I think that is an optical illusion, since I know that he attempts to pitch with his the right side of his cleats just above the pitching rubber and the left side of his cleats just below it. I'm thinking what appears to be the rubber is actually the slot in front of it and that Tim is indeed pushing HARD off the front of the pitching rubber. Does that make sense?
When Tim is viewed from the front, he appears to be putting little effort into his throws. But when viewed from the side, one can see how his whole body explodes forward.
I sort of envision Tim's delivery as if I were viewing a whip. Tim's body is like the stem of the whip, driving forward to essentially snap his arm forward like the tip of a whip. To me that puts little strain on the arm (tip of the whip).
Tim's dad compares Tim's body during delivery to a pole during a pole vault. I think that conveys both how he gets so much velocity from a short (for a pitcher), thin, wiry body and how he is able to throw so many pitches so hard without losing much velocity or suffering even a single sore arm.
Tim has worked very hard for most of his life to keep his core strong and flexible. After all, his body is his stem of the whip or his pole to "vault" his arm over. Tim's dad believes it is the conditioning and the motion itself that contributes to Tim's success more than genetics.
Given that Tim's dad was clocked at 88 mph at age 55 using essentially the same motion as Tim uses would indicate the genetics aren't bad either, although it is probably equally true that it was the method and conditioning that allowed Chris to throw that fast at such an advanced pitching age moreso than his genetics.
I was also clocked at 88 mph at the age of 55. Unfortunately it resulted in the CHP giving me a ticket.

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