WFAN reports possible (edit: kenshin) Sanchez for Matsui
John Heyman is saying that Sanchez is the one for Matsui. Yanks might take on some salary.
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
286 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
Matsui is a productive hitter, but I don't really know about a 33 year old with his contract.
Also, doesn't he have a no-trade clause?
Marketing wise and Japanese TV revenue wise I guess he'd pay for himself.
I really don't buy it though, doesn't seem like a fit for either team
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
by sup3rk1ng on Dec 6, 2007 2:05 PM PST up reply actions
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
by Angry Monkey on Dec 6, 2007 1:56 PM PST reply actions
Update
Re: Update
by nostocksjustbonds on Dec 6, 2007 4:50 PM PST up reply actions
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Dec 6, 2007 5:51 PM PST up reply actions
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 6, 2007 2:01 PM PST reply actions
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
I seriously hope the thing about Lincecum was a joke, because ... no. Just no.
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 6, 2007 2:16 PM PST up reply actions
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
Plus, if you see my sig, I have other reasons to be unhappy.
If there were monies back..
Either would be fine for me. I've always heard the minor league budget comes from elsewheres as the major league payroll.
Re: If there were monies back..
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
Unless you're saying spend that $26M in scouting?
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
It's ironic that Porcello
The Tigers didn't rebuild the "correct" way. They signed players, Pudge Rodriguez and Magglio, who "wouldn't be on the next good Tigers team".
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Dec 6, 2007 5:53 PM PST up reply actions
because...
yes,,,
Re: yes,,,
Be patient
Re: yes,,,
you completely missed my...
There are literally NO realistic moves the Giants can make to get into the playoffs, let alone the world series. Do you really think the Giants stand any chance against Detroit, Boston, NY or Cleveland.
Our chances our minuscule no matter what we do. Trading young players does not make sense but losing Sanchez has no long term repercussions for the team
Re: you completely missed my...
Dude, I certainly did
I don't think the Giants can compete with those American League teams (and luckily we don't have to, but that's besides the point I guess). We have to compete with the NL West to try and get into the crap-shoot playoffs. Even so, we'd be lucky to get out of the cellar in 2007, I'll admit. Again, it boils down to how much value you put in Sanchez. I'm not as high on him as most people are I guess...my bad. I hope I'm wrong.
so...
In a vacuum without giving up talent, that's not a great move.
Re: so...
So in a vacuum, without giving up talent, it's not a great move. But it certainly isn't a horrible one either.
Re: sparkling recommendation
so...
Your argument is "Matsui is not a terrible player". No one disputes this claim. He is pretty damn close to being an exactly average player.
Re: so...
This was my point. I was trying to be clear.
then...
That the Matsui move is not good but its OK because you don't like Sanchez?
Re: then...
Re: then...
In other words:
Because one team had their marketing blast through the roof because of a high profile Japanese player it doesn't me we need to find a Japanese player to excite the Japanese contingency of the Bay Area.
The Japanese are by far the SMALLEST represented Asian community in the Bay Area. If they want to sell a lot of tickets to people of the Asian persuasian they need to sign someone who's last name is Chang, Wang, or Lee.
** This is an incredibly disjointed post.
by Sigualicious on Dec 7, 2007 11:32 AM PST up reply actions
Re: then...
What Chinese/Korean/non-Japanese player has the draw that someone like Ichiro or Matsui have? More importantly, which of these players are available to be signed or traded for right now?
Just because the Japanese population in the Bay Area is the smallest "Asian" community in the Bay Area, it does not mean there isn't a positive marketing potential there. I'd be willing to say there is a SIGNIFICANT positive marketing opportunity there.
Re: then...
If you're looking to have a marketable player BECAUSE of their ethnicity, why wouldn't you just go for the jugular? We shouldn't be arguing over which Japanese player we should get to attract more fans or which Taiwanese or Korean player either.
The fact of the matter is, the bay area is home to one of the largest populations of central americans in the US yet the Giants have done virtually nothing to promote Giants games to our locals with bilingual Spanish speakers.
So you'll forgive me that I think trading for a Japanese outfielder who is past his prime is a stupid idea if it's "marketing to a demographic" that we're after.
Re: then...
Re: then...
I listen to the Giants broadcasts in Spanish. And the only times I hear things about the Giants on the Spanish radio stations it usually only to promote their upcoming radio broadcasts. It's also very rare to see Giants commercials on any of the spanish television stations.
And you're right the Giants don't shy away from making a big deal about the rich latin past but I think most of that is expressed to the english speaking audience. And nearly all of the spanish speaking Giant heavyweights of the past have been Domincan and various other carribeans (which is kind of like trying to get us Americans excited about great Canadian baseball players).
I know that their aren't a lot of Mexican, El Salvadorian, and Guatamalen (which is what like 90% of the bay area Spanish speakers are) ballers out there these days but I think it would be nice if the Giants made a larger effort in attracting this immense population of wouldbe Giant fans.
I realize a lot of this needs to come from within the team as well. What the Giants really need is a spanish speaking JT Snow or Rich Aurillia in their prime (talented fan favorites) and I guarantee you'll see s$#t blow up.
Re: then...
He says he's "H20 friendly"
Oh , that's NOT an "H"...
Well , Ang Lee. Better film to review in the clubhouse.
Or Stan Lee , the writer and Oliver Hardy's best bud.
by victor frankenstein on Dec 9, 2007 6:27 PM PST up reply actions
I suppose the
If no talent is given up, that's a GREAT move in the current market.
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
Take on salary?
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
No.
And if we include Lincecum, we can have Shelley Duncan? Is that a joke?
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
awful is overstating it...
Re: awful is overstating it...
Now, if Lincecum was included for Shelley Duncan, it would, in fact, be a horrible, awful, terrible, mind bogglingly bad deal.
Re: awful is overstating it...
Re: awful is overstating it...
Re: awful is overstating it...
Re: awful is overstating it...
Re: awful is overstating it...
Re: awful is overstating it...
Re: awful is overstating it...
At that time the Red Sox named Theo Epstein as their GM. Theo said immediately that the Red Sox would improve their scouting and development. Now, a lot of the reason the Red Sox won the World Series is because other than the Yankees, they have more money to spend than any other team. But part of it was some stellar draft picks they have made over the past five years.
Instead of building their scouting and development back when it could have made a significant difference for the 2008 season, the Giants were on the verge of intentionally giving up draft picks.
The Red Sox were visionary. The Giants have been reactionary. Thus Brian Sabean has dug himself such a big hole that he is actually considering "The Franchise." Literally.
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
However I hate that this will mean no Fred Lewis in LF, and we REALLY need to get rid of some of our OFs now.
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 6, 2007 2:17 PM PST up reply actions
Zito is unmovable
Seriously, no team would touch him.
Depleted Uranium Shells
by Lyle @ McCovey Chronicles on Dec 6, 2007 4:09 PM PST up reply actions
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
If they took Roberts, I'd be less happy, but it would pave the way for a Lewis/Davis platoon.
This could also portend another deal, like Winn for Tejada or something.
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
Fukodume's agent has also stated that he would take less $$ to play on the west coast.
If this deal lands us Fukudome + a decent Yanks prospect, I could actually be happy with it.
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
by southcitysteve on Dec 6, 2007 2:31 PM PST up reply actions
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
Anyway, I hope this move wouldn't take away ABs from Nate or Lewis. Maybe Freduardo can play RF and Nate can snag 1B from Ortmeier (with Winn in center).
I'm in agreement with those who actually think this isn't so bad. I like Sanchez and realize that outside of the big, untradeable 2 and Noah, he's clearly our best trade chip. But that said, I think we learned from Sabean's scary interest in Rios that the Giants aren't going to be willing to enter next year with a historically bad offense-- they're too terrified that no one would show up to watch them play. As shortsighted as this trade is, at least it's Sanchez and not Lincecain. I can cope with the loss of the former for some short term relief from historical awfulness, but not the latter.
In short, I think those of you arguing that this isn't the right move because Matsui (probably) won't be on the next Giants team that competes are stubbornly correct, but given what we know of the Giants' overall philosophy, that whole 'wait 'til 2010' thing was never going to work. Realistically, this organization refuses to look at itself as in full-rebuild mode in any way, or at least to project that image to the public. I think the best we can hope for is that SF adopts the strategy to rebuild the farm system and hang onto the stud youngsters (i.e. Lincecain) we have now-- everything else is expendable to make the team not quite as putrid to watch in the interim.
In the long run, maybe that means we don't compete until 2011-2012 instead of 2010-2011, but I think that's probably a sacrifice Giants brass is willing to make for the PERCEPTION of an effort to contend. It's not something we should be thrilled at, but we'd better get used to it, because that's just the way it's going to work, I'd say.
by Smoke on the Water on Dec 6, 2007 3:02 PM PST up reply actions
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
Its just not a move I can get really excited about. With the limited trading chips the Giants have, they should be trying to acquire YOUNG position players, not declining ones.
by southcitysteve on Dec 6, 2007 3:11 PM PST up reply actions
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
by southcitysteve on Dec 6, 2007 2:29 PM PST up reply actions
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
by KCE on Dec 6, 2007 2:22 PM PST up reply actions
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Dec 6, 2007 10:14 PM PST up reply actions
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
I thought it was all Bonds's fault that we had an old team. ;_;
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
Winn
Durham
Matsui
Molina
Aurilia
Feliz
Vizquel
SP
Anyone else's dream lineup? Sure is mine.
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
by KCE on Dec 6, 2007 2:28 PM PST up reply actions
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
by KCE on Dec 6, 2007 2:35 PM PST up reply actions
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
by nostocksjustbonds on Dec 6, 2007 4:55 PM PST up reply actions
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
Roberts/Davis
Winn
Tejada
Masui
Sexson
Molina
Frandsen
Vizquel
smells better
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
by KCE on Dec 6, 2007 2:28 PM PST up reply actions
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
Meh
by orangeandblackattack on Dec 6, 2007 2:26 PM PST reply actions
Re: Meh
Depends on how SF feels about Lincecum
Re: Depends on how SF feels about Lincecum
Re: Meh
Re: Meh
Re: Meh
I'm very high on Correia and think he could be the best #5 in the league next season.
I like Sanchez, but don't see the same consistency and number of plus pitches. He's basically a lefty with a plus-fastball.
On a somewhat related note, I've recently been emulating Jonathan's facial hair (goatee with no mustache...something Mrs. Goofus and I affectionately call the "Filthy Sanchez" in his honor.)
Re: Meh
by southcitysteve on Dec 6, 2007 2:47 PM PST up reply actions
Re: Meth
another point
If you're going to trade a latin guy for Matsui, I think Edward James Olmos might be more fair. Shaving for those guys must be trickier than a lunar landing.
Mrs. Goofus is quite the strange one...
Nevermind.
Re: Meh
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 6, 2007 3:23 PM PST up reply actions
Re: Meh
Zito 244/323/ 403 BA/OBP/ SLG vs. Right handed Batters.
Lowry 277/378/425 BA/OBP/ SLG vs. Right handed Batters.
Sanchez 321/412/500 BA/OBP/ SLG vs. Right handed Batters. ( 166 Plate appearance)
Granted this is just a quick thumbnail sketch.
Zito's career numbers much better at 229/305/364.
Just for giggles Corriea is 257/320/392 vs. Right handed batters.
Re: Meh
Re: Meh
Please don't forget to stop by the concession stand on the way out. We are running a special on rare, limited edition, Benitez Tee Shirts. They make a great stocking stuffers.
good point..
Re: Meh
by southcitysteve on Dec 6, 2007 2:34 PM PST up reply actions
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
Re: WFAN reports Sanchez for Matsui
Sorry, I just want to fit in.
Whenever he comes to bat...
OK...
Looking at his stats, him being a lefty will probably drop his power down, probably into the high teens or around 20 HRs, although perhaps increse his triples with our alley.
Another thing, his page says he played 3B exclusively in Japanese ball. With his knees is it possible for him to move back? Is this something really common in Japanese baseball, to take a 3B and turn him into a LF/RF?
Re: no one...
Re: no one...
Re: no one...
I guess if I investigated more..
Why yes, yes I do.
70 were killed in a Chinese mine explosion.
And that's the hardest news of all.
Re: Facts
by southcitysteve on Dec 6, 2007 2:52 PM PST up reply actions
I add another fact?
Then there will be about 3 or 4 others that come by afterwards when we say things like...
"Roger Clemens signed with the Yankees!"
and
"Jerome Williams signed with the A's!"
Roger Clemens signed with Jerome Williams
we should sign Roger Clemens!
by nostocksjustbonds on Dec 6, 2007 4:59 PM PST up reply actions
Re: Facts
Because that's what she said!
But she lied, so that's what she said but lied.
Boy I'm lame at creating any humor.
Re: Facts
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 6, 2007 3:25 PM PST up reply actions
Re: Facts
Wait a second...
you guys are impossible!
I do NOT see why anyone would be PO'd about this trade. We had a few extra arms, we needed someone GOOD as a hitter, WE DIDN'T trade Tiny! Damn guys... you guys are impossible!"
Re: you guys are impossible!
Yes but to be fair...
I agree with some it was a pointless diary...
It's almost better for boards like this to stay smaller. Almost.
Re: I agree with some it was a pointless diary...
Re: I agree with some it was a pointless diary...
Mom!!
Re: you guys are impossible!
Re: you guys are impossible!
Re: you guys are impossible!
Re: you guys are impossible!
Re: you guys are impossible!
Re: you guys are impossible!
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 6, 2007 5:51 PM PST up reply actions
and now from the NY state of mind
Scroll down to the notes thread and read it from a NY Yankees fan mindset. Expanding the deal could be interesting in the long run.
Can this diary get any more ridiculous?
so, yes, i wouldn't mind matsui for lowry. if we aren't going to compete we at least have to pretend we tried.
Re: was...
so if we do get matsui for lowry+ that means no retarded trading away of future cy young winners, right? that's another reason i'm all for the trade.
finally, is anyone else going to this thing tonight? my roommate said it has something to do with "the dark knight"...
http://www.whysoserious.com/steprightup/register.aspx
it's not showing in the bay area but we're going to the l.a. show... if it's something special i'll post it later in this off-the-wall diary.
Re: Can this diary get any more ridiculous?
I'll probably still go see it for Daniel Craig, but lol.
Re: Can this diary get any more ridiculous?
Re: Can this diary get any more ridiculous?
Re: Can this diary get any more ridiculous?
Re: Can this diary get any more ridiculous?
Attention Statheads
Re: arbitrary...
by southcitysteve on Dec 6, 2007 3:51 PM PST up reply actions
Re: arbitrary...
Carloz Gomez's value >>>> Matsui's
by awesomer @ McCovey Chronicles on Dec 6, 2007 3:17 PM PST reply actions
Re: WFAN reports possible (edit: kenshin) Sanchez
3:45 p.m., from Jayson Stark
* A source says the Giants did call the Yankees about Hideki Matsui. They're offering their starting pitchers (Tim Lincecum, Matt Cain or Noah Lowry) for bats, but they are just exploring to see if there is a match. Matsui has a full no-trade clause, and it isn't known whether he would waive it to go to San Francisco or anywhere else.
lol..
Re: WFAN reports possible (edit: kenshin) Sanchez
Expand the deal
Re: Expand the deal
Re: WFAN reports possible (edit: kenshin) Sanchez
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 6, 2007 3:29 PM PST up reply actions
Re: WFAN reports possible (edit: kenshin) Sanchez
Re: WFAN reports possible (edit: kenshin) Sanchez
Re: WFAN reports possible (edit: kenshin) Sanchez
by UnleashTheGore on Dec 6, 2007 3:33 PM PST up reply actions
Re: WFAN reports possible (edit: kenshin) Sanchez
Re: WFAN reports possible (edit: kenshin) Sanchez
Re: WFAN reports possible (edit: kenshin) Sanchez
That said, unless it's a trade I personally agree with and support, I'd rather not find out.
Re: WFAN reports possible (edit: kenshin) Sanchez
Do you think Dirty had enough opportunities in a defined role to see if he sticks?
Re: WFAN reports possible (edit: kenshin) Sanchez
I don't see how we are going to suddenly get a raft of young guys that can hit, and will be ML ready in 2-3 years.
The only reason to stay away from guys like Matsui is to spend the money elsewhere. I don't see how 13M/2 years can be spent on anything that helps the team in 2010. I mean, teams won't just sell you their prospects.
That being said, what I don't like about Godzilla is that he's really not that good (although immediatly becomes best hitting on the Giants), might decline fast, and plays OF. Plus Sanchez has some significant upside.
This is a good move only if you have lost faith in Sanchez becoming an ace reliever or solid starter.
Re: WFAN reports possible (edit: kenshin) Sanchez
Re: WFAN reports possible (edit: kenshin) Sanchez
by UnleashTheGore on Dec 6, 2007 3:45 PM PST up reply actions
Re: WFAN reports possible (edit: kenshin) Sanchez
Re: WFAN reports possible (edit: kenshin) Sanchez
His questions for Sabean and Steve Young are generally pretty well thought out and bring back some decent responses. Young is a pretty open book, but Sabean isn't. Besides, I've said it before and I'll say it again: Ralph vs. Sabean is some of the best 20 minutes of talk radio there is.
Re: WFAN reports possible (edit: kenshin) Sanchez
I'd appreciate Ralph's provoking questions more if:
- They didn't take forever
- He wasn't more interested in working his own opinion into the question than hearing what his guest's answer is
Re: WFAN reports possible (edit: kenshin) Sanchez
Re: WFAN reports possible (edit: kenshin) Sanchez
Ralph and Tom's reaction? Jay who? How can we expect these guys to properly analyze a major trade when they don't even know who the minor league player of the year was? Ok, the average fan probably won't know, but these guys are supposed to be "professionals."
by nostocksjustbonds on Dec 6, 2007 5:06 PM PST up reply actions
Re: WFAN reports possible (edit: kenshin) Sanchez
Goofus pointed out that Ralph "thinks" he knows about baseball. I get the same impression. Just because he's on the radio doesn't mean a thing. You either know your subject or bring on an expert that does. Listerners will trust you more if your honest with them and not be a blowhard.
For the life of me, with all the money Ralph makes (good for him and his family) you would have thought he would have gone to a speech therapist for that lateral lisp.
But what I really think bothers me more than anything is they can't seem to leave there egos in the airlock to the studio.
The two of them should get down on their hands and knees every morning and thank the radio gods they have a job.
Well,
Mentioned on MLB.com now:
Doesn't mean that anything will actually happen though.
If it goes down, any chance we could move to 1B?
As much as I really do like Ort, and wouldn't mind if he were our 1b, if we get Matsui, I'd rather see him at first, Winn in Center, Nate in Right and Lewis/Davis/Ort/Roberts(gag) in left.
Re: Mentioned on MLB.com now:
I wonder if there's any deal the Yankees would do that would be worth Cain or Lincecum.
Re: Mentioned on MLB.com now:
Re: Mentioned on MLB.com now:
link to Marquez: http://pinstripespa.blogspot.com/2007/10/top-10-prospects-8-jeff-marquez.html
http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/M/Jeff-Marquez-1.shtml
we...:
We will not get an offer anywhere near the Santana package from the yanks.
Understandable
Re: Understandable
by nostocksjustbonds on Dec 6, 2007 5:09 PM PST up reply actions
Re: Mentioned on MLB.com now:
by denny on Dec 6, 2007 8:20 PM PST up reply actions
Re: Mentioned on MLB.com now:
by Smoke on the Water on Dec 6, 2007 9:14 PM PST up reply actions
Re: Mentioned on MLB.com now:
I'm not shocked to see what you guys are saying. Is it realistic? No, but neither are we. It's just natural for fans to overhype their own players, especially the young ones (most of us didn't want Johan if it cost us Hughes).
Now, of course, somewhere between the hysteria on this site, and our sites lays the truth: Matsui isn't a superstar, and Lincecum and Cain aren't the best young pitchers in baseball. Matsui is a very good hitter and marketing dream; and Lincecum and Cain aren't the next coming of Clemens (in fact, we're debating where either would fit in the rotation, with Hughes, Chamberlain, Wang, Pettitte, and Kennedy already slotted; probably #4 slot). Factoring everything in, I think a package of Matsui, Tabata or Jackson, and Horne is more than fair for Cain.
by denny on Dec 6, 2007 9:41 PM PST up reply actions
Re: Mentioned on MLB.com now:
June 12 vs. TOR 6 IP, 4 H, 2 R, 2 ER, 4 BB, 5 SO
June 24 vs. NYY 5.2 IP, 2 H, 1 R, 1 ER, 5 BB, 2 SO
And as far as your proposed Matsui, Tabata or Jackson & and Horne for Cain trade. Dream on. The Giatns wouldn't do that for Lincecum let alone Cain, they're looking for position players who would be ready to play in 08'. Not players like Tabata or Jackson who are still years away from playing.
Cain/Lincecum vs. Hughes/Chamberlain
August 26, 2007
Which team's young pitching combination do you like better, the Yankees' Phil Hughes and Joba Chamberlain or the Giants' Matt Cain and Tim Lincecum?
D.J. Kennedy
Anaheim
D.J. has mentioned four of the very best young pitchers in the big leagues. Cain consistently has spun quality starts since breaking into the majors two years ago at age 20. Lincecum and Chamberlain had the best 1-2 combination of pitches in the 2006 draft and needed precious little minor league time before enjoying immediate success in the bigs. I ranked Hughes as the best pitching prospect in the minors entering the season--and his pure stuff isn't as good as that of the other three guys.
Separating prospects like this basically comes down to nitpicking. I'll take the San Francisco duo, because Cain has proven more in the majors more quickly than Hughes, and because Lincecum's long-term health is a safer bet than Chamberlain's. A number of teams passed on Chamberlain in the 2006 draft because they couldn't get medical clearance on the long-term health of his left knee.
That said, New York's pitching future is in good hands with Hughes and Chamberlain. If the Giants have the best pair of pitchers who are 23 or younger, the Yankees very may well have the second-best duo.
Re: Cain/Lincecum vs. Hughes/Chamberlain
Now, the folks who post here at McCovey Chronicles are die-hard Giants fans. Extremely smart about their team and baseball. From a purely baseball decision, you are probably right: it's not worth giving up Cain or Lincecum for Matsui and prospects.
But talent is only one factor in the decision-making process. The reason we think this could get done is that your owner financed your stadium out of his own pocket. When you've got THAT much debt to pay off, and you see that this one trade isn't going to lift your team out of the cellar, any more than keeping Cain and Lincecum will result in you guys being a formidable power (you finished last WITH Bonds, how you gonna do without him, while the rest of the division improves?)you're going to then see how you can replace Bonds from a marketing perspective.
The reason he might want to get Matsui is to increase his revenue. Matsui is an international superstar, the best Japanese hitter of his generation. With a large Asian population in the Bay Area, trading for Matsui would be a huge publicity coup. Over the course of his career, a potential million Matsui Giants jerseys would be sold here and abroad. Fans would come to see Matsui, more so than Alex Rios, a nice young player but hardly a big name or difference-maker.
Do you guys really think the past 5 years your owner was concerned about winning? You tied a huge portion of your payroll to Bonds, and ensured you had no other huge ego superstars on the team, so it would be all about him. Your record was poor, but how was attendance? Revenue?
Don't underestimate that factor, nor the players the Yanks could offer you. Matsui would not only cover the marketing side, but he would instantly be your best hitter. (He's not Bonds old btw). The key baseball-wise would be who else you could get from us. We have a deep farm system. Juan Miranda is a power-hitting Cuban 1b who would be an upgrade over Klesko/Aurilia. Tabata or Jackson could be ready to take over at CF in 2009, and be productive for 15 years. Alberto Gonzalez is a slick-fielding SS who most people compare to Vizquel. Alan Horne, while not in Cain or Lincecum's league, is probably better than Lowry, and definitely Correia or whomever else you're throwing in your rotation.
by denny on Dec 7, 2007 9:02 AM PST up reply actions
Several points
Secondly, Matsui is not a big name or a difference-maker either. Matsui was a big name in JAPAN. That he is an international superstar is irrelevant. He is not a superstar in the US. Ichiro is a bigger star in the US than Matsui. Baseball wise, Alex Rios is a better player than Matsui.
Thirdly, Cain has been on the team several years. And has been very good too. Lincecum is probably THE most hyped young pitcher in MLB nowadays, on par with King Felix. Lincecum at the least, marketed correctly, is worth more marketing revenue than Hideki Matsui.
More Godzilla info
Matsui was a surprising addition to the list of players that Sabean discussed here. The left fielder is a proven run producer who hit .285 (.367 on-base) with 25 home runs and 103 RBIs in 143 games last season. He also will turn 34 in June, is owed $13 million in each of the next two seasons and has a full no-trade clause.
A source familiar with Matsui's thinking said he probably would waive the no-trade provision out of deference to the Yankees' wishes, and would enjoy living in San Francisco.
The Yankees also need starting pitching and would love Lincecum, but the Giants are only considering him in the Rios deal. Noah Lowry could interest the Yankees, but Sabean hinted that the left-hander hasn't fetched any solid offers outside of San Diego, Arizona and Colorado.
Re: More Godzilla info
Re: More Godzilla info
Re: More Godzilla info
Re: More Godzilla info
Ah well, at least they tried.
Apology
Let me clarify something, if Lincecum will ever go to the Yankees, it will be in a completely different deal not the Matsui deal.
I would trade Sanchez for Matsui, we need to have somebody who can hit next year, and we have a lot of starters. If this deal gives us the opportunity to dump Roberts on them, then I will be very happy with the deal.
Re: Apology
You don't throw Roberts into a deal just to dump him. He's a productive major leaguer, an excellent lead-off hitter against RHP, and his salary is not keeping us from signing any FAs.
You only trade him if he brings back something that helps the team.
Re: Apology
by Grant Brisbee on Dec 6, 2007 9:26 PM PST up reply actions
Re: Apology
Re: Apology
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 7, 2007 5:37 AM PST up reply actions
Re: Apology
I'd also trade Winn if we could get anything useful for the same reasons.
Re: Apology
I'm fine with trading him, but for me, it has to be to either sweeten a deal or bring back value on his own.
Re: Apology
Re: Apology
make this deal
If any of you want a good laugh, listen to the kool-aide brigade on doublexx1090.com or whatever their p.o.s. url is.
Matsui plus a prospect?
"A source familiar with the early discussions said Matsui and a prospect might be enough to net Lowry or Sanchez. Giants righthander Tim Lincecum is considered untouchable."
and -
"The Yankees would prefer trading Matsui over Damon, whom they like in leftfield, and would rather keep Cabrera, who is only 23. But besides the Giants, teams have greater interest in Damon and even more in Cabrera."
http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/yankees/ny-spyanks1207,0,4645310.story
Assuming it will be Matsui+prospect for Sanchez, rather than Lowry (at least until the Santana/Bedard/Haren situation works itself out) - is there a Yankees prospect that could make this trade worthwhile for both sides?
Re: Matsui plus a prospect?
I'm a Yankees fan and follow their farm system pretty closely. Maybe I can help you with some of their prospects.
I assume the Giants are looking for bats. Do they need to be Major League ready? What positions?
The Yankees' system is stocked with arms, but there aren't a whole lot of impact bats. The best of them are probably all at least a year away, and most of them are in the outfield.
Austin Jackson is a 20-year-old center fielder who broke out in the second half in High-A ball this year. He's a five-tool player and probably their best non-pitching prospect. His BA/OBP/SLG in 67 games at high-A last year was .345/.398/.566 with 10 HR, 15 2B and 13 SB. He's at least a year away, probably more like two.
Jose Tabata has the next highest ceiling. He's a 19-year-old right fielder who can hit for average and has good plate discipline right now, and is expected to develop power. He went .307/.371/.392 in High-A this year as an 18-year-old despite having a wrist problem most of the season. He had surgery a couple of months ago to fix it. He's almost certainly two or three years away.
It would take a lot to get either of those guys. Definitely more than Lowry or Sanchez if they're paired with Matsui.
Many of their best remaining position players were 2007 draftees. Braedyn Pruitt, Brandon Laird and Brad Suttle are all third baseman. Pruitt and Laird were both great after the draft. Suttle signed late and hardly played at all. Justin Snyder played 2B, SS and CF and hit for a great average with a ton of walks.
There's also Juan Miranda. He's a 24-year-old first baseman who defected from Cuba. He split the season between Single-A and Double-A and showed good power and plate discipline.
I really doubt the Yankees would trade Matsui straight up for Lowry or Sanchez. I imagine they'll set their sights on Cain or Lincecum since they probably don't even want to trade Matsui. Are the Giants desperate enough for a bat to consider Matsui and Ian Kennedy (Major League ready, third best pitcher in the system behind Hughes and Chamberlain) for either one?
by yanks on Dec 7, 2007 1:03 AM PST up reply actions
Re: Matsui plus a prospect?
Re: Matsui plus a prospect?
Re: Matsui plus a prospect?
Only way this makes sense to me is if the Yanks have been told that one of those two would be desired by the Twins or A's in a package for Haren or Santana.
by denny on Dec 7, 2007 9:57 AM PST up reply actions
Re: Matsui plus a prospect?
Uh.
Uh.
I got nothin'.
Well, I'm sure you guys could use Barry Zito in long relief. He's quite durable.
Re: Matsui plus a prospect?
BTW, didn't mean to disparage your team, apologize, it came out wrong. I was just pointing out that Lowry and Sanchez would both be bullpen guys for us, and with all the available bullpen free agents out there and comparison of needs, why would we trade what would be your cleanup hitter and have to throw in a prospect for either a long-man or setup guy? Matsui for both would make sense from our side. We could throw in a prospect for that, but for just ONE of them? Not getting a warm and fuzzy. yanks don't do salary dumps, and that's only way that trade would make sense.
by denny on Dec 7, 2007 10:39 AM PST up reply actions
Re: Matsui plus a prospect?
Re: Matsui plus a prospect?
Zito
Hughes
Wang
Pettitte
Mussina
If any of those guys gets hurt, we could always bring up Kennedy or Joba. By 2009, Mussina, Pettitte, and Pavano's contracts (a combined $38.5 million per year) will be gone, giving us a relatively cheap rotation of
Hughes
Zito
Chamberlain
Wang
Kennedy
Sure, Zito's salary might be an albatross come 2010, but that's water under the bridge for us! He isn't a power pitcher, and might hold up well. Unlike Lowry, he's proven he can handle the AL, and has post-season experience.
by denny on Dec 7, 2007 2:19 PM PST up reply actions
Re: Matsui plus a prospect?
Re: Matsui plus a prospect?
BB
Re: WFAN reports possible (edit: kenshin) Sanchez
Re: Matsui
Re: Matsui
What's Lowry's repertoire? Is he a finesse pitcher? Seems he walks alot of guys, is that true? His WHIP has been high, and the ERA will go up quite a bit as he moves from PAC BELL and the NL West to the AL East.
I don't think Hideki would require an extension to waive his NTC. He's the ultimate team player, and if the Yanks want to trade him, he'd defer. Plus, I think he would feel more comfortable in SF than NYC.
He will be turning 34, but isn't that young on your team? He has averaged an OPS of 900 here in the States. I'll bet he'll get 25 homers with an OBP close to .400 over there. He's also known as a great clutch hitter.
by denny on Dec 7, 2007 10:47 AM PST up reply actions
Re: Matsui
Statheads will tell you he doesn't stike out enough hitters and relies too much on double-plays.
One thing that I think everyone here would agree on, he's a bulldog and very good athlete that fields his position well. He doesn't get rattled on the mound and seems to get tougher with men on. Although it would barely matter to an AL team, he's VERY good with the bat and takes pride in his hitting/bunting.
I persoanlly like Lowry, but we have SP depth and he seems like the odd man out since he's a proven starter without the high upside of Cain and Lincecum, who we all want to try to hang onto.

by 



















