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Around SBN: Kentucky Football: Tee Martin Reportedly Leaving for USC

Noah Lowry

Many of you here are way more knowledgable than I. So I ask a simple question about Noah Lowry. A lot of the rumors right now are about Joe Blanton. Why is Noah not even mentioned in the same breath? Am I undervaluing Joe Blanton or overvaluing Noah? Blanton seems like he had a decent year last year but nothing special. Maybe he is slightly better than Noah, but why is he getting top notch prospects in return for his services? Can someone please help a brother out? Why is this guy coveted?

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

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Re: Noah Lowry
Blanton is more durable, has superior peripheral statistics, and pitches in the American League.

by rotorueter on Dec 17, 2007 8:06 AM PST reply actions  

Re: Noah Lowry
and Noah got hurt at the end of last year...
Psycho killer, qu'est-ce que c'est?

by shikantaza on Dec 17, 2007 8:14 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Noah Lowry
I guess that falls under durability though...
Psycho killer, qu'est-ce que c'est?

by shikantaza on Dec 17, 2007 8:28 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Noah Lowry
Exactly.  If Nibblin' Noah posted a BB/9 of 5+ in the harder league, he might have an ERA approaching 6.00.

by KCE on Dec 17, 2007 8:18 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Noah Lowry
Once Beane moves Blanton though, Lowry's value will go up.  Teams that want a lefty for their rotation will pony up for a guy under a good contract for several more years, and I think Sabean is counting on this.  

The problem for the Giants is that deals are available now that would fill the Giants' 1B and 3B needs, and Sabean may move faster than he otherwise would want to.  I think Lowry's value will be higher a month from now, but I suspect he'll be gone by then.

by Buck Henry on Dec 17, 2007 8:26 AM PST reply actions  

Re: Noah Lowry
Bingo. Let the Blanton market determine Lowry's trade value. Noah will become the best available starter that teams don't have to cut of a leg to get.

by Birdman @ McCovey Chronicles on Dec 17, 2007 11:39 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Noah Lowry
Blanton:
14-10, 3.95 ERA, .269 BAA, 1.22 WHIP
230.0 IP, 240 H, 40 BB, 140 K
2nd AL in IP; 3rd AL in CG

Lowry:
14-8, 3.92 ERA, .265 BAA, 1.55 WHIP
156.0 IP, 155 H, 87 BB, 87 K
3rd most BB in NL

There are three big differences that I see:
(1) Durability- Blanton is a horse, whereas Noah seem to be capable of pitching fewer innings.  Even outside of ERA, Ks, and all of that, teams really value a pitcher that can eat up innings.
(2) Control- Noah gives up WAY too many walks and this bumped his WHIP up a good deal.
(3) Strikeouts- An out is an out, but more strikeouts usually mean better stuff.

The lack of strikeouts plus the lack of control is a big red flag.  You have successful pitchers who are wild, but make up for it with amazing stuff.  You also have pitchers without really good stuff, but can locate the ball so well that they can still trick hitters and prevent them from hitting the ball with power.

Noah is neither.  He has below average stuff, and horrible control.  Yet, he is fairly successful.  You can chalk this up to either being a gamer, or being lucky.  I think it is a bit of both.

If the market doesn't heat up from Noah after Blanton gets traded, the best thing to do is to keep Lowry and hope that he can show teams that he is durable and has better control than last year indicates.  If he can do those things, we will likely be able to get something good before the trade deadline when teams are desperate for that last piece that can put them into the playoffs and beyond.

Psycho killer, qu'est-ce que c'est?

by shikantaza on Dec 17, 2007 8:27 AM PST reply actions  

Re: Noah Lowry
How many years does he have to do it before he's not lucky anymore?  

He has essentially been doing it for 3.5 years not, his only blemish has been Sept 2006, when he finally was shut down because of elbow problems, but prior to Sept, his ERA and stats were very much like the stats for him for his career.  I think he has shown that he's not like other pitchers, he knows how to pitch with less than stellar stuff and to get people out with it.

"I'm a Giant now... I like watching the ball get up there" - Wendell Fairley "I'm really proud to be on this team." - Nate Schierholtz

by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Dec 17, 2007 5:13 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Noah Lowry
Well, he's only managed a sub-3 ERA with a 1:1 K/BB ratio once, so I would say it would take more than one season with that kind of ERA combined with those peripherals before I'm convinced.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Dec 17, 2007 7:04 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Noah Lowry
Noah wasn't particluarly lucky in 2004.  He posted a 3.82 ERA with a 1.29 WHIP.  He wasn't particularly lucky in 2005, when he managed a 3.78 ERA with a 1.31 WHIP.  He wasn't particularly lucky in 2006, when his 4.74 ERA was driven by an increase to 1.39 in his WHIP.

Noah was lucky in 2007 when despite a leap to 1.55 in his WHIP, his ERA remained at about the same level as 2004 and 2005, coming in at 3.92.

Give me the Noah of 2004 and 2005, and I wouldn't be so anxious to trade him.

by sharksrog on Dec 17, 2007 8:33 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Noah Lowry
BP actually has a luck metric that I used to write about Noah on my blog a few months ago.

Quoting from that post

If you've never heard of this Luck statistic, here is BP's official definition:

>>Luck, as measured by the number of extra wins, and short losses the pitcher actually got, versus his expected record. LUCK = (W-E(W))+(E(L)-L)

It's based on estimated wins and losses. Looking at how similar pitchers with the same statistics faired. Here's the BP definition of estimated wins:

>>Expected win record for the pitcher, based on how often pitchers with the same innings pitched and runs allowed earned a win or loss historically (this differs from how it was computed, which was a more complicated, theoretical calculation).

Our SP, based on the luck stat. Positive scores means that the pitcher was lucky and negative scores indicate bad luck.

Matt Cain: -13.52 (the fourth lowest "luck" score since 1959)
Barry Zito: -2.76
Noah Lowry: +4.32 (this shouldn't surprise anyone)
Tim Lincecum: +0.94
Matt Morris: +0.92
Kevin Correia: -0.69 (includes both starting and relieving)
Jonathan Sanchez: -2.07 (includes both starting and relieving)

Lowry was lucky, but he wasn't the luckiest pitcher in the bigs last year, that goes to Paul Byrd who scored a (+8.23)

If anyone's interested, you can read the rest of the post here.

http://www.baycityball.com/2007/10/08/unlucky-18-and-rotation-thoughts/

by xanthan on Dec 17, 2007 8:43 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Noah Lowry
Can anyone surmise why Lowry fell off a cliff in the first place? The dude was totally dealing for his first couple years in the majors--above average K rate, below average walk rate. And of course the near-no-hitter against Boston.

And then, kerplunk. What's up with that?

by Steve on Dec 17, 2007 8:43 AM PST reply actions  

Re: Noah Lowry
I still maintain that a lot of his struggles go back to his Opening Day start in 2006 against the Braves when he left in the 2nd with the oblique strain. When he came back after that DL stint, he was never right again. I wonder if he changed his mechanics to compensate for the injury and he's just never been able to get back in that groove.

Otherwise, he might be a guy that was deceptive the first time through the league that got figured out big time and has never made the necessary adjustments.  Once guys started laying off that changeup and sitting on that fat fastball, every outing has seemed like a struggle.  

by KCE on Dec 17, 2007 8:55 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Noah Lowry
From what I observe pitch to pitch, Lowry's changeup is just not the same as when he came up.  Sometimes, yes, but most of the time it doesn't have that fade at the end.  

BTW, I wonder if Wily Mo Pena has ever gotten back into the shoes he lunged out of trying to hit that changeup Noah's first season?

by DrBGiantsfan on Dec 17, 2007 9:07 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Noah Lowry
yea... Noah used to be really fun to watch.  Then that beautiful change disappeared :(
Psycho killer, qu'est-ce que c'est?

by shikantaza on Dec 17, 2007 9:16 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Noah Lowry
I'm sure there's a certain contingent that still think Noah is fun to watch.
Nattowear | comics | Durham? I hardly know 'im!

by Natto on Dec 17, 2007 11:13 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Noah Lowry
I'm going write a main-page post about Lowry's declining K-rate, so if you think you have a must-read theory, you'll have to explain it twice. Or just ignore my post. That's probably far more likely.

by Grant Brisbee on Dec 17, 2007 9:22 AM PST reply actions  

Re: Noah Lowry
ignore what?
"cynical yet whimsical giants related signature"

by The Gene Hackman on Dec 17, 2007 10:32 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Noah Lowry
His post.
Dave Righetti: You Know You Want It. / Also, my blog. For writers.

by howtheyscored on Dec 17, 2007 11:15 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Noah Lowry
GOD DAMMIT!
Dave Righetti: You Know You Want It. / Also, my blog. For writers.

by howtheyscored on Dec 17, 2007 11:16 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Noah Lowry
"it happens to the best...
...it happens to the rest"
"cynical yet whimsical giants related signature"

by The Gene Hackman on Dec 17, 2007 12:07 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Noah Lowry
Isn't the definition of sarchasm "The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the recipient who doesn't quite get it."
Rockies juggernaut rolls o...ver , dead. NL West TempestTeapot CASE IN POINT!

by victor frankenstein on Dec 17, 2007 7:24 PM PST up reply actions  

Beane wants a team to overpay for Blanton
what he asked for...

dodgers-kemp/dejesus/mcdonald
reds-bailey or cueto+
mariners- jones/morrow
mets- told they didnt have enough

i think they might bring blanton's price down. likely it would take a top 50 prospect + several 2nd tier, but those previous demands seem unlikely. also i think it will be an NL team, whoever is desperate most. cant afford santana/bedard asking price or dont want  to give 40mill+ to silva/lohse, blanton might a solid alternative

by rayver723 on Dec 17, 2007 9:41 AM PST reply actions  

Re: Noah Lowry
i was wondering the exact same thing. (why blanton over lowry)  there have been some convincing arguments here, but the difference between the rumored packages the a's are seeking for blanton and what it sounds like the giants are being offered for lowry is huge.  noah has had success with little to no run support the last two years.  yes he has played in the NL, in a pitcher's park, but a mid-90's fastball seems to be a little overvalued on the trade market.  i think we should focus on what we can get for sanchez.

by sam23 on Dec 17, 2007 10:34 AM PST reply actions  

Re: Noah Lowry
I wonder if Marc Normandin at BP might be willing to do a "Player Profile" on Noah Lowry...

I'm sure there are more interesting candidates, but it might be kind of cool to see what he can find in the pitch-by-pitch data.  

by KCE on Dec 17, 2007 10:46 AM PST reply actions  

Re: Noah Lowry
I hope the fact he's a lefty and has a tidy fixed contract through 2010 helps somewhat balance out the fears over last year's numbers/dead arm.

by DaStick on Dec 17, 2007 12:25 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Noah Lowry
Sabean has already turned down Lastings Milledge for him, so maybe the offers for Noah are better than we think they are. Perhaps Sabean is holding out for a heist.
Bring me a cleanup hitter please!!

by rxmeister on Dec 17, 2007 5:43 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Noah Lowry
I was not aware of this, do you have a link?

by Mr Scruff on Dec 17, 2007 6:31 PM PST up reply actions  

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