Mock Roster Proposal
Now that Aaron Rowand is a Giant, here are some other moves to make:
Tim Lincecum for Alex Rios
then
Matt Cain for Melky Cabrera
then
Noah Lowry/Jonathan Sanchez for Coco Crisp
then
sign Mike Cameron to a 3-year/$40M deal.
then
sign Corey Patterson to a 3-year/$30M deal
The result would be this lineup:
Dave Roberts - CF/1B
Melky Cabrera - CF/2B
Alex Rios - CF/RF
Aaron Rowand - CF to rule them all
Randy Winn - CF/3B
Mike Cameron - CF/C
Coco Crisp - CF/SS
Corey Patterson - CF/LF
IT WOULD BE A LINEUP OF CENTER FIELDERS!!!!!!!!!! AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Two things would make the Aaron Rowand signing okay:
- His power doesn't drop back to the 12-homer Rowand of 2005 or 2006.
- The Giants now try and move Randy Winn in a deal that helps solve the Giants' corner infielder problem.
Meet the new Sabean, same as the old Sabean.
0 recs |
208 comments
Comments
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
by Dan from NM on Dec 12, 2007 1:37 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
by ResDog on Dec 12, 2007 1:37 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
by gianator on Dec 12, 2007 1:38 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
by mxmob33 on Dec 12, 2007 1:39 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
by Scottsdale on Dec 12, 2007 1:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
by ilselu1 on Dec 12, 2007 2:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Adopted!
At least he'll be fun to watch... at least he'll be fun to watch... try to breathe... sigh...
by antinous on Dec 12, 2007 1:39 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Adopted!
If it's firstys, I adopt our 1B of the future, our 2008 #5 pick.
by tellusfrank on Dec 12, 2007 10:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Adopted!
Your general responsibilities as adopter are defending your adoptee when they start to get canned on. Mayor of 311 was Sabean's adopter (since given him up, I believe). He had the hardest job.
by howtheyscored on Dec 12, 2007 11:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
Real Men of Genius -- Here's to you, Mr. Multiple-Center-Fielder-Signing-General-Manaaaaager!
by Skaldheim on Dec 12, 2007 1:39 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
by Kitspool on Dec 12, 2007 1:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
by wcw on Dec 12, 2007 1:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
by redhornet78 on Dec 12, 2007 2:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
feel good hit of next summer....
by The Gene Hackman on Dec 12, 2007 11:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
by Dan from NM on Dec 12, 2007 1:40 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
by Big Daddy J on Dec 12, 2007 1:41 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
by Scottsdale on Dec 12, 2007 1:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
by dangjackson on Dec 12, 2007 1:43 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
by Evan on Dec 12, 2007 1:45 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
by Big Daddy J on Dec 12, 2007 1:45 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
by jponry on Dec 12, 2007 1:45 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
by Kitspool on Dec 12, 2007 1:45 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
by UnleashTheGore on Dec 12, 2007 2:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
by MikeyJ on Dec 12, 2007 2:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm okay with it.
Also, I think that this signing makes it very obvious that Winn, Roberts, or Lewis are likely candidates to be packaged away in another deal. I'd be VERY surprised (even taking into account Sabean's track record) that we're going to start the season with this many outfielders.
The other pros to this trade....
We didn't have to trade Lincecum or Cain to get him.
It probably also means that Matsui is off the table. I thought that was a bad idea to take him on.
by Sigualicious on Dec 12, 2007 1:45 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: I'm okay with it.
by allfrank on Dec 12, 2007 4:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The reverse is also true
by awesomer on Dec 12, 2007 1:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: The reverse is also true
by Goofus on Dec 12, 2007 8:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: I'm okay with it.
by achiappanza on Dec 12, 2007 2:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: I'm okay with it.
by lincysgiants on Dec 12, 2007 3:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: I'm okay with it.
by Sigualicious on Dec 12, 2007 4:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: I'm okay with it.
by allfrank on Dec 12, 2007 4:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely yes
The only difference is we gave Rowand one more year. The dollar per year is the same.
by Sigualicious on Dec 12, 2007 4:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Absolutely yes
by achiappanza on Dec 12, 2007 5:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Absolutely yes
by Goofus on Dec 12, 2007 8:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Absolutely yes
by Sigualicious on Dec 12, 2007 9:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
by Mordy From Monsey on Dec 12, 2007 1:46 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
So, this would be trading a market-value CF platoon (Roberts is a overpriced) *and* two draft picks for an above-market CF with great defense.
Idiot.
by wcw on Dec 12, 2007 1:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
by Sigualicious on Dec 12, 2007 2:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: That's what he said
by Sigualicious on Dec 12, 2007 2:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
by Goofus on Dec 12, 2007 8:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
2005-2007 road slugging
Rowand .438
Roberts .414
If you think those 25 points in slugging make up for Roberts 15-point OBP advantage, you may well be right. Results in comparable ballparks indicate, however, that over the last three years Rowand and Roberts have been very much the same batter.
by wcw on Dec 12, 2007 9:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That's a somewhat ridiculous comparison
by Sigualicious on Dec 12, 2007 11:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: That's a somewhat ridiculous comparison
Rowand 788 .438
Roberts 679 .414
100 extra ABs are not something to sniff at, so I'll rephrase: Rowand's bat is the same as a platoon of Dave Roberts and Rajai Davis.
Rowand is better than Roberts and Davis, but not by much. Davis's slugging vs lefties over the same three years? An adequate .394, with a .377 OBP.
Davis plays pretty good defense, too.
by wcw on Dec 13, 2007 6:53 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
Winn
Rowand
Schierholtz
Back up: Davis
Trade Roberts for corn flakes and milk to be named later.
Id be okay with trading Winn as well and keeping a Roberts/Davis platoon.
Just please, do something about this. My blood pressure cant take it and i'm only 23 dammit.
by Giant Voodoo on Dec 12, 2007 1:47 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
by scotterduder on Dec 12, 2007 1:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
by EliminateMe on Dec 12, 2007 1:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
Winn: 292/356/462/818 10 HRs
Rowand: 299/368/475/843 10 HRs (with more games in the smaller parks in the East)
by allfrank on Dec 12, 2007 4:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
I do now foresee a Cain for A Jones trade.
by allfrank on Dec 12, 2007 4:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
by victor frankenstein on Dec 12, 2007 7:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
Like Rowand, Sabean has chased after an object with full, unbridled force. The object could, possibly, have been attained, if the correct path was taken to it. However, the smart route was not taken, with Sabean and Rowand bloody and broken, face first into a wall.
In Rowand's case, it was a ball. In Sabean's case, it's a World Series Ring.
by AngelintheInfield on Dec 12, 2007 1:47 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
by EliminateMe on Dec 12, 2007 2:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
by Coach Kline on Dec 12, 2007 1:49 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
by Mordy From Monsey on Dec 12, 2007 1:49 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
If we end up with a Roberts-Rowand-Winn outfield, I'll be pissed.
by jponry on Dec 12, 2007 1:52 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
by groug on Dec 12, 2007 1:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Roberts-Rowand-Winn outfield
I really hope this signing means that the Giants will unload some of these outfielders, and I don't mean the young ones.
by Widget on Dec 12, 2007 2:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
by allfrank on Dec 12, 2007 4:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
by rellubcat on Dec 12, 2007 7:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
by tellusfrank on Dec 12, 2007 11:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
The sum conclusion (based mostly off BABIP) was that Rowand was going to come back down to earth, and that the power wasn't going to last. Well, the power lasted, although his numbers did come down to something more resembling his very solid 2004 season.
So, which Rowand are we getting? The .270/.320/.420 from his worse years, or the .310/.370/.515 from last year? If the former, then yeah, this stinks. If the latter, I don't hate this move. Yeah, I hate the money, and the years, but that production from CF, even regressed to a .290/.340/.470 isn't horrible.
That's the best I can come up with. If Rowand doesn't suck, this move isn't horrible. Good lord, but that is a pathetic excuse for an argument.
Snap judgement: the only reason I don't hate this move is that it means Lincecum stays. Addition by non-subtraction?
by Ott on Dec 12, 2007 1:55 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
Dave Roberts, in other words, with better defense.
A stellar use of $20 million a year.
by wcw on Dec 12, 2007 2:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
by allfrank on Dec 12, 2007 4:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
More of the same
If we can swing trades for both Roberts and Winn - or at least one of them, plus getting something useful for Lewis and/or Davis - then this will make some sense. In the meantime, though, it looks an awful lot like the thinking that led to last year's four-first-basemen lineup.
by EliminateMe on Dec 12, 2007 1:57 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: More of the same
by Giant Voodoo on Dec 12, 2007 2:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
by scotterduder on Dec 12, 2007 1:59 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
F for Sabean and all who sail with him.
B for Tidrow and pitchers.
B for marketing and media.
Works out to about a C in my book.
In other words -- the Cubs of the freaking West Coast.
by wcw on Dec 12, 2007 2:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
by jwirt19 on Dec 12, 2007 2:03 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
by Glasscock on Dec 12, 2007 2:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
by Glasscock on Dec 12, 2007 2:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
For: Rolen+Duncan
Nevermind... pipedream and I knew it the instant I was done typing it, but maybe that would net us a decent 1B/3B combo. New starting OF is Schierholtz Rowand and Lewis. Hell, this general idea just makes too much sense for Sabean, even if the Cards would bite.
by Smoke on the Water on Dec 12, 2007 5:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
lol.
by jponry on Dec 12, 2007 2:03 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
by jponry on Dec 12, 2007 3:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
by howtheyscored on Dec 12, 2007 3:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
by Glasscock on Dec 12, 2007 2:04 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
"Rowand is a prime candidate to drop off after posting big numbers in his walk year with the Phillies. Thanks in part to the offensive-friendly environment of Citizens Bank Park, where he batted .319 with a .937 OPS, the 30-year-old finished with career highs in homers (27), RBIs (89) and runs (105) last season. Now, he'll be playing half his games at AT&T Park, a much tougher venue for hitters. Rowand will probably top off at around 20 jacks, with subsequent drops in RBIs and runs in 2008. Leaving a potent Phillies lineup for one that's still under post-Barry Bonds reconstruction doesn't help matters, either. Throw in his decreased activity on the basepaths, and Rowand is looking like an average mixed-league outfielder at this point."
by ilselu1 on Dec 12, 2007 2:04 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
by allfrank on Dec 12, 2007 4:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
If he trades Cain or Lincecum after this POS singing I'm driving up to SF with a can of gasoline and a lighter and burning the Giants home office down. @#$!^*
by GiantFanInExile on Dec 12, 2007 2:04 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
by Bring Back the Thrill on Dec 12, 2007 2:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
by allfrank on Dec 12, 2007 4:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
by GaryEdmundCarter on Dec 12, 2007 2:05 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
by GiantFanInExile on Dec 12, 2007 2:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
Oh, don't forget the Gold Glove, either...
by GaryEdmundCarter on Dec 12, 2007 2:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
by GiantFanInExile on Dec 12, 2007 2:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
by howtheyscored on Dec 12, 2007 2:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
Like I said, if Rowand hits 18 or so HR's and has a .300 or so average, he's worth the 60 million for 5 years. Yeah, 4 years would have been better, but hey, the Giants charge $30 to park and $8.50 for a beer for a reason.
by GaryEdmundCarter on Dec 12, 2007 2:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
by GiantFanInExile on Dec 12, 2007 2:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
Also, you seem to be overlooking the fact that Rowand is 30, not 35. He's just reached his power years. I'm not saying that he'll hit 25 HR's but he'll hit 18 or so. 18 or so HR's, .300 or so average, and Gold Glove defense = a good signing.
Lap it up, pilgrim, Rowand is a Giant.
by GaryEdmundCarter on Dec 12, 2007 3:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
Rowand EqA the last four years: .292, .252, .252, .294
Roberts EqA for the same years: .260, .283, .283, .253
'Nuff sed.
by wcw on Dec 12, 2007 3:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
When is the last time Roberts hit 27 HR's or 15 HR's or even 10 HR's?
You should be ashamed of yourself.
'Nuff said.
by GaryEdmundCarter on Dec 12, 2007 4:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
The headline stats are different, true, mainly because Rowand has played his home games in parks like Philly and Chicago South. Here are each player's HR park factors for respective parks and years:
Rowand home Roberts home
2005 1.04 0.75
2006 1.20 0.98
2007 1.42 0.81
But hey, if you want to believe every hitter who passes through Colorado is great, be my guest.
Just don't ever run my baseball team, m'kay?
by wcw on Dec 12, 2007 10:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
also i have read every projection in the book about most of these guys, and let me tell you they were far off last year and will continue to be far off this year, so please dont ever base an argument on that
by jeffc on Dec 13, 2007 4:41 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
Roberts career OPS+ (adjusted for park effects) : 90
Rowand career OPS+ (adjusted for park effects) : 106
by GiantFan on Dec 13, 2007 5:27 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
His bat is, however, very much like a platoon of Roberts and Davis. http://www.mccoveychronicles.com/comments/2007/12/12/164639/53/206#206
by wcw on Dec 13, 2007 6:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
by GiantFanInExile on Dec 12, 2007 4:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
by GiantFanInExile on Dec 12, 2007 4:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
Rowland won't guarantee a first place finish, but he'll go a long way towards helping the Giant's wild card chances. I means really, you have to admit that.
As for paying off the debt of the park, too effing bad. $8.50 a beer and $30 parking and a packed house every night means they have some money to spend.
by GaryEdmundCarter on Dec 12, 2007 6:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You think...
by WalrusMan on Dec 12, 2007 9:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
by GiantFanInExile on Dec 12, 2007 9:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
by scotterduder on Dec 12, 2007 10:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
I don't have an utter disregard for stats, but I know enough about baseball to tell the stats geeks of the world that baseball is not math, it's baseball.
So, do me a favor, and go to Fontanetti's in San Jose and take a little BP. Stay off the computer for at least 3 days and then you'll be OK.
by GaryEdmundCarter on Dec 13, 2007 11:26 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
Matt Cain: "I'll take that one less hit, everybody looks at peripherals these days, screw W-L records."
by Scottsdale on Dec 12, 2007 2:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
The Gold Glove means very little about good defense.
And about the HRs, what part of "in seven seasons only hit more than 15 HRs twice" means that we should ever expect him to hit 18 at AT&T? We can expect his power numbers to be moderately depressed by park effects to begin, but compound that with the fact that last year was a fluke AND a fluke that was helped out by a band box... I barely think it's reasonable to expect him to hit more than 12.
by howtheyscored on Dec 12, 2007 3:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
Look at his numbers and you'll see that his first season he only played in 63 games and got 123 at bats. Of course he didn't have 15 jacks that season. In his second season he played 126 games and his third 93. It wasn't till his 4th-7th seasons that he got a real chance to put up numbers that we can evaluate him by on a season by season basis.
Over the last 4 seasons, including his two dud years (13 homers and 12 homers) he averages 19 a season. That's not shabby. Sure, it'll be tougher in SF, but please, no more "in seven seasons only hit more than 15 HRs twice". Faulty logic.
by khasson on Dec 12, 2007 3:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
by GaryEdmundCarter on Dec 12, 2007 3:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
Even so, I don't know how much we can read into career year last year, and based more heavily on his career numbers, expecting 18-20 HRs out of him is probably the high end of what we should expect him to do, especially at AT&T. I just don't like saying "I'll be happy if this player fulfills a best case scenario" is really the way I want to look at this signing. If I looked at signings that way, I'd never think any decision the team made was bad.
by howtheyscored on Dec 12, 2007 3:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
- Career year in 2007
- Played his entire career with more than half his games in in hitter-friendly ballparks
- Now playing 100 games a year in Mays Field, LA and Petco
- Played with teams that had good hitters up and down the lineup
- Now playing on a team with Bengie Molina, cleanup hitter...
If forced to bet the house on whether Rowand's 2008 HR total will be closer to 15 or closer to 20, I'd bet on 15 without batting an eye.
by tobias on Dec 12, 2007 6:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
by allfrank on Dec 12, 2007 7:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
by GaryEdmundCarter on Dec 13, 2007 11:01 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
Here's hoping they all happen. Even the seventh thing. I think he'd be aces.
by tobias on Dec 14, 2007 10:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
The truth is I have no idea which version of the wildly inconsistent Aaron Rowand we're going to get, but I'm trying really hard not to be fooled by his career year (maybe the wrong way to think, sure), and the rest of his career just doesn't inspire a whole lot of power confidence. I'd be happy if he hits 18-20 HRs, but if he regresses and depresses (for park), I just don't think I should be able to expect it.
by howtheyscored on Dec 12, 2007 3:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
by khasson on Dec 12, 2007 3:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
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by allfrank on Dec 12, 2007 4:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
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by Angry Monkey on Dec 12, 2007 2:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
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by GiantFanInExile on Dec 12, 2007 2:06 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Sabean's though process:
<booooooooooo!>
Screw you then, full no trade clauses for all! And miniature american flags for me!
by howtheyscored on Dec 12, 2007 2:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
by GaryEdmundCarter on Dec 12, 2007 2:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
Or, "some 3b" would have also been acceptable.
by howtheyscored on Dec 12, 2007 2:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
Cheer up, Bubby. All is not lost.
by GaryEdmundCarter on Dec 12, 2007 2:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
I also believe that forcing Nate to learn 1b next season could have serious negative effects on his hitting. He shouldn't have to be worried about a new position when what we really need is for him to adjust to hitting a an MLB level.
I've long argued that Nate at first is pretty dumb, and I don't like it any more now than I did before. I'd rather Nate takes another year at Fresno than have to learn first base in order to get a few at bats.
by howtheyscored on Dec 12, 2007 3:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Neither has a shot at being avg at those positions
by awesomer on Dec 12, 2007 3:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
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by GiantFanInExile on Dec 12, 2007 3:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
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by jeffc on Dec 13, 2007 4:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
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by howtheyscored on Dec 12, 2007 2:07 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
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by scotterduder on Dec 12, 2007 2:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
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by Evan on Dec 12, 2007 2:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
They have Huntington now
Finally, the Giants win at something.
by awesomer on Dec 12, 2007 2:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
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by jwirt19 on Dec 12, 2007 2:13 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
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by Skaldheim on Dec 12, 2007 2:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
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by MidKnight on Dec 12, 2007 2:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
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by jeffc on Dec 13, 2007 4:52 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
what about roberts and hennesey for crede?
by son of riles on Dec 12, 2007 2:18 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
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by Angry Monkey on Dec 12, 2007 2:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
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by GiantFanInExile on Dec 12, 2007 2:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
- Rowand doesn't bat like Rowand 2005 and 2006, but instead like Rowand 2007.
- The giants try to move Winn.
Sabean, try and fill a position the Giants need. A 1b. A 3b. AA and AAA level prospects.
Stupid Rowand. Stupid Sabean. Stupid stupid stupid.
Anger makes me want to start a pool for AR's first concussion, first DL stint for broken bone, and when he'll pull a Matheny all due to his reckless play.
i need to calm down. jeesh. for one, I didn't have cable or sportcenter this past season, so rowand is still a teens hr power guy and "web gem" concussion waiting to happen. Maybe, he has matured into a 30 HR slugging Gold Glove CFer. (still need to trade away Winn and Roberts now though.)
by kennv on Dec 12, 2007 2:22 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
salary: $90m
At $60m I would just be a little sour about the draft pick and the sheer idiocy involved. At $90m, I think to myself, 'that's a lot of Villalonas someone could have signed.'
Is there a worse large-market GM than Sabean right now?
by wcw on Dec 12, 2007 2:57 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: salary: $90m
by JakeS on Dec 12, 2007 2:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: salary: $90m
by zenbitz on Dec 12, 2007 3:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: salary: $90m
by nick on Dec 12, 2007 3:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: salary: $90m
I guess I can go back merely to being sour about the draft pick and the sheer idiocy. The highest compliment I can pay Brian Sabean is that he's merely an idiot.
Nice work.
by wcw on Dec 12, 2007 3:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: salary: $90m
by EliminateMe on Dec 12, 2007 3:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: salary: $90m
by wcw on Dec 12, 2007 3:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
Seriously, this is bullshit. I hate being the laughingstock of the baseball world and now we just have another untradable fucking Barry Zito commodity. GODDAMMIT. I'm sorry for cursing.
by JakeS on Dec 12, 2007 2:59 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
(lather rinse repeat)
by nick on Dec 12, 2007 3:11 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
Oh wait.
Sabean lives in opposite-land, where below-average players are SUPER SUPERSTARS dsfjkbjfkdsb!!111
I bet we're gonna get Rios..
by lmaozedong on Dec 12, 2007 3:12 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
by BondOrBust on Dec 12, 2007 3:20 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
by barblechuck on Dec 12, 2007 3:21 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
by sfgreg on Dec 12, 2007 3:24 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
- the roster currently sports four (4) CF-capable OF in Winn, Roberts, Lewis and Davis
- giving up draft picks for FA has worked *real* well lately (like 2005.. ugh..)
- Rowand's bat will be moving from a bandbox to a real park
- and that you hear the other high bidder was 3Y/$20m
Thanks.
That idiot...
by wcw on Dec 12, 2007 3:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
My name is Hugh. I played center field in the Montclair Junior Baseball League in the fabled summer of 1977. Coincidentally enough - I played for the Giants! I would welcome the opportunity to bolster your outfield, which is looking a little thin. I would only require three years at 6 million per. Such a deal! My agent, XieFrank Boras, awaits your call.
by HughG16 on Dec 12, 2007 3:26 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: THE RESERECTION OF GORNYSON!!!!!
by howtheyscored on Dec 12, 2007 3:27 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: THE RESERECTION OF GORNYSON!!!!!
by southcitysteve on Dec 12, 2007 4:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: THE RESERECTION OF GORNYSON!!!!!
But yeah, that was the joke.
by howtheyscored on Dec 12, 2007 4:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: THE RESERECTION OF GORNYSON!!!!!
by Natto on Dec 12, 2007 4:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
by JakeS on Dec 12, 2007 4:00 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
by JakeS on Dec 12, 2007 4:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
Rowand is expected to bat fifth? Who is batting third and fourth? I think Sabes forgot that protecting Barry's bat isn't a problem without Bonds. Is the 3-4-5 actually Winn, Durham, Rowand?
I'm more confused than before...
At least Sabean said Cain and Lincecum are untouchable now. That, at least, is encouraging.
by lincysgiants on Dec 12, 2007 4:07 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
- Winn
- B-Money
- Rowand
- DRoberts Lf
- Frandsen? 3b
- Winn Rf
- Benji C
- Rowand Cf
- Durham 2b
- Ort? Richie? Schierholtz? 1b
- Vizquel SS
by oldjacket on Dec 12, 2007 4:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
by The Nick on Dec 12, 2007 5:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
Possible Rolland? No, Cards have too many outfielders..
Inge? No way... don't see it happening..
Two for one Matsui deal, maybe?
Three for one deal with the Astro's and Carlos Lee? (yea, a guy in Houston has told me this has been discussed locally but I can't find anything on it)
Anything goes, thats for sure.... really to me the only way this doesn't make sense is if this is the only move we make...
I smell a blockbuster coming..... wait.... no maybe thats the Gallo wine plant down the street.
by HarshInFresno on Dec 12, 2007 4:09 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
This is in short, a terrible move. It's this kind of pissant maneuver that will delay the return of a strong Giant's team by diverting money that could go to promising free agents in 08 and 09. Once again, Sabean signs a player after a career year.
It also creates problems for developing our young outfielders like Davis and Schierholtz. I understand people were impatient to see something, anything happen. But this is a failure and we won't be fielding a competitive team now until 2010 at the earliest or more likely until 2011.
by orangeandblackattack on Dec 12, 2007 4:39 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
THIS IS NOT THE NFL OR YOUR MONEY
by Sigualicious on Dec 12, 2007 5:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Alas
Maybe the current owners will sell the team to someone who doesn't mind losing money to win ball games. Unfortunately there's not that many rich people who like to lose money. It's far more likely that they get someone who wants to make an annual cash profit from their team. And then we end up with the 1970-1985 Giants.
by orangeandblackattack on Dec 12, 2007 5:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It doesn't really matter if it's not our money...
by WalrusMan on Dec 12, 2007 9:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
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by boonitez on Dec 12, 2007 4:40 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
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by jponry on Dec 12, 2007 4:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
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by Giant Escape on Dec 12, 2007 4:44 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
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by JakeS on Dec 12, 2007 5:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
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by Giant Escape on Dec 12, 2007 5:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
You don't stock 16,000 outfielders with out having some kind of plan...
Look for something to happen after the first of the year...
by HarshInFresno on Dec 12, 2007 4:57 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
I guess I have a few reservations for the following reasons;
- The getting younger idea only works if the youngsters aren't blocked, and the outfield is one place where you now just blocked Rajai, Freddy, and Nate.
- Rowand is a talented player, but not one to build a franchise around, I think he could be a good RBI guy...but who will be on base?
- This seems to be a move that opens the door to other moves... but I want to know what moves and who is the trade bait? If it's a Sanchez for Matsui deal then I'm in...but if it's a Lowry for Bill Hall deal I'm out (not that I don't kinda like Hall, but he's an outfielder/second baseman...which further murders the youth movement)
by lincysgiants on Dec 12, 2007 5:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
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by Dan from NM on Dec 12, 2007 7:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
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by lincysgiants on Dec 12, 2007 7:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
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by allfrank on Dec 12, 2007 8:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
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by saveuszito on Dec 12, 2007 5:37 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
Parallels are obvious.
by zenbitz on Dec 12, 2007 7:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
It has become pretty obvious that because of the state of the giants, going forward, sabean is going to have to add that extra year or an extra million or two to lure any free agents to sign in sf. all of the arm-chair GMs out there should temper their snarky comments and answer one question: What in god's name would you have done given the state of this team to improve this club for next year?? I for one say Rowand is a step in the right direction since those absurd one sided trades being proposed on this board are not only unrealistic, but a waste of time.
by mccormick22 on Dec 12, 2007 6:06 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
Speaking of trades... Because the Giants helped themselves with this signing it would seem to make the Giants a bit stronger when it comes to dealing with other clubs. Other GMs are less likely to see desperation as a factor in dealing with the Giants.
The only move I'd make prior to spring training is to go after a third-baseman. Let Ortmeier have first base in spring training. As hard as it is to take for many Giants fan, start Durham just so he has the opportunity to rebound, and if so, trade him. Same can be said for Winn. Give Schierholtz some playing time, then deal Winn in they can.
by RUSirius on Dec 12, 2007 10:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal

lol
by jponry on Dec 12, 2007 6:29 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
by Natto on Dec 12, 2007 7:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
One CF to rule them all...
by The Gene Hackman on Dec 12, 2007 6:33 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: wow
by jponry on Dec 12, 2007 7:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: wow
My Sans-A-Belt slacks are the A-Rod of my pants collection. Not sure I'd sign them for 5-60, though.
by Your mother on Dec 12, 2007 8:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
by resco16 on Dec 12, 2007 8:55 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
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by stevealbs on Dec 12, 2007 9:08 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
by KCE on Dec 12, 2007 9:14 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Good timing: season tix "deadline" today
But I've been so frustrated by the direction of the team (or should I say directionlessness of the team?). I have been feeling more and more like the season tixholders were being played for suckers. This signing cinches that I am not renewing today... and I'm leaning away from renewing by the January deadline, too. Crap weasels.
by Mayor of 311 on Dec 12, 2007 10:07 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Good timing: season tix "deadline"
by groug on Dec 12, 2007 10:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Good timing: season tix "deadline"
Not to mention, I could no longer sleep with my employee-wife-of-deputy-chief-of-staff. Nor officiate illegal weddings between people of the same gender.
Sigh. But no, I'm tired of feeling punked out like a prison bit&h. We'll see how I feel next month, but I am not thrilled with giving them more money. Besides, I am 42 and in decent shape, though utterly unathletic-- they could hire me on the centerfielder staff at the league minimum salary.
by Mayor of 311 on Dec 12, 2007 10:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
I'm thinking Rowland plays Deep CF (he loves running into walls), Rajai or F-Lew Mid-CF and Roberts Shallow-CF (only because of the ball dudes have a better arm than him).
by NuschlersDip on Dec 12, 2007 10:18 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Keith Law
http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3152808&name=law_keith
Rowand is a dead-fastball hitter with a complicated, high-effort swing that produces a lot of sound and fury, but a lot of swings and misses as well. His power is part real and part the effect of the hitters' parks where he's spent his entire career (56 homers at home versus 37 on the road). He's not enough of a contact hitter to predict high averages, and his batting average has fluctuated accordingly throughout his career. He is not patient, going after the first fastball he sees (or thinks he sees), never drawing more than 44 unintentional walks in a season. He's now moving to a bigger ballpark that's about as unfriendly to home runs as Philadelphia's park is friendly to them, and he's not going to make up for the loss of that power with good OBPs.
The Giants just gave a very good fourth outfielder who's stretched as an everyday player in most years five years and $60 million. It's reminiscent of the Angels' signing of Gary Matthews Jr. last winter -- a deal they regretted enough to replace him this winter. But the Giants' in-house alternatives were bad enough that the Rowand deal does make them a win or two better per year in the short term. They're not going to get their money's worth, nor was it worth giving up a second-round pick to sign him, and since the Giants are not likely to contend for at least the first three years of Rowand's deal, it's hard to see why they'd move to make such a large and lengthy commitment.
He also made the following comment in the comments section in response to a poster's whining about the farm system:
kevcon - they did draft very well in 2007, best of any club in my opinion. Lots of high-ceiling guys who won't all pan out, but enough of them should to help form the core of the next good Giants team, five or six years down the line.
by KCE on Dec 12, 2007 10:19 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Keith Law
by jponry on Dec 13, 2007 4:15 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Keith Law
by GiantFan on Dec 13, 2007 5:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Keith Law
by KCE on Dec 13, 2007 7:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Keith Law
How this was better than a Roberts/Lewis/Davis CF eludes me.
by wcw on Dec 13, 2007 8:22 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Keith Law
It's all about his BA.
When he hits. .270ish, he's a good 4th OF. (05-06)
When he hist .305ish, he's a solid starter (04,07)
by zenbitz on Dec 13, 2007 10:00 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
Andrew Jones avg $18 mil/year 2 yrs
Torii Hunter avg $15 mil/year 5 yrs
Mike Cameron who knows, but suspended for 1st part of next season
Aaron Rowand avg $12 mil/year 5 yrs
This is the going rate, people! We live in an era of baseball where the sport is making more money than ever before, and salaries are exploding more every year. Sabean just got a Gold Glove-caliber center fielder, a decent hitter with a little pop in his bat, and a grab bag full of "intangibles" and "clubhouse presence" for a below-league average for those skills. Yes, five years is a long time, but Rowand will only be 35 at the end of this deal.
I would agree with the general sense of pessimism here if this was the only signifigant move Sabean and the Giants make this off-season, but I believe there a few other things in the hopper right now that will make this deal part of a larger picture. Bottom line, we get an All-Star CF, and don't trade Linecain (declared "off-limits" in Sabeans' press conference today), keeping our core starting pitching intact.
Patience, people -- Sabean has re-stocked his front office with a new set of opinions/brain trusters, and is clearly navigating some troubled waters with a team in emergency rebuilding mode, and the first Giants team in over a decade that is not rebuilding with veteran quick-fixes around a superstar. Not to mention he's going to the bargaining table with teams who are painfully aware of all of the Giants' weaknesses, empty farm system, and acute needs. Yes, he brought us to this point and should shoulder at least part of the blame for the franchises' deep woes right now, but give him a chance to dig his way out.
I'll be right there piling on if Sabean signs or trades for more veteran stopgaps in a misguided attempt to contend RIGHT NOW rather than rebuild, but right now the Rowand signing is an encouraging sign that the franchise is building for the future...good luck and bless all Giants fans everywhere, cause it's bound to be a bumpy ride!
by eppmeister on Dec 12, 2007 11:43 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mock Roster Proposal
If you're defending this move you're sanity needs to be checked.
by Kestrel on Dec 13, 2007 1:51 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Mock Roster
His lineup fell in the deep
Someone reached in and grabbed it
It was a mock roster!
by The Gene Hackman on Dec 13, 2007 2:24 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

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