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Delayed Outrage

"Say what you want about Pedro and Omar -- I don't know where we would have been in a lot of innings in a lot of games in a lot of weeks without the type of defensive play we had from the left side of the infield," Sabean said."
That quote is from a month-old sfgiants.com article, so it isn't exactly fresh. I missed it the first time around. It might be the worst Sabean quote I've ever read.

Where would you have been in those innings in those games in those weeks, Brian? Last place. By a ton. That strategy failed. Having defensive specialists on the left side of the infield did not help the Giants more than whatever the competition did to build their roster.

Now the most productive hitter from that last place team is gone. Now the Giants can afford even less to have no-hit defensive specialists in their lineup. They can afford even less to put a premium on mostly intangible qualities like "team speed." My offseason would be complete if Sabean would acknowledge this just once.

Open ridiculous quote thread. If someone can find a sillier quote from Sabean, I'd like to read it. This one even beats the "If we signed Vlad, we wouldn't have been able to get Michael Tucker, Dustin Hermanson, Chad Hermansen, or Chad Lowe"-quote.

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Re: Delayed Outrage
Under MLB's new scoring rules, doesn't a great defensive play result in the team's offense being credited with a run?

p.s: I'd actually give Sabes words some weight if the Giants, you know, fielded a rotation of Lowe, Westbrook, Cook and two other groundballers.

by Nathan on Nov 9, 2007 1:26 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Delayed Outrage
"I am not an idiot"

Was he making a denial of a premonition of the truth?

by positiveuphemism on Nov 9, 2007 1:28 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Delayed Outrage
wow i hate to follow that....i think.... but yeah didnt have to go far to discover some sabrilliance.

"The statement was made as a product of my frustration feeling that the popular belief is to simply sign a big-name free agent to a big contract, thus wrapping all your hopes, present and future, on one player vs. the strength in numbers theory."
[on not making an offer to vlad]

Ohhhh we arent going to just build around one player ......what team have i been watching for the last 5 years?

Merkin Valdez...... I swear he's still alive.

by peteisathug on Nov 9, 2007 1:53 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Delayed Outrage
and yes i love dot dot dot
Merkin Valdez...... I swear he's still alive.

by peteisathug on Nov 9, 2007 1:54 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Delayed Outrage
I'm a big fan of elipses as well. There's even a rule for them... if you care....

It's 3 dots to indicate a pause between two parts of the same sentence and 4 dots to indicate a pause that directly precedes a full stop. The fourth dot in this case is, in fact, the full stop.

:) !!!

Dave Righetti: You Know You Want It. / Also, my blog. For writers.

by howtheyscored on Nov 9, 2007 2:33 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Delayed Outrage
I see that he uses 6 dots at times, what could that mean?
Fairley odd parent to Wendell...

by Mark carry on on Nov 9, 2007 2:42 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What's the fifth dot?
With the season over, I release my adoptee Brian Sabean. Good luck in the world, little buddy.

by Mayor of 311 on Nov 9, 2007 4:10 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That's a typo
Steve Kline: How okay is he, really? I would say he is pretty okay.

by groug on Nov 9, 2007 9:16 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: That's a typo
I'm kind of ashamed I didn't make that pick-up.
Dave Righetti: You Know You Want It. / Also, my blog. For writers.

by howtheyscored on Nov 9, 2007 10:33 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sigh.
Dammit, HowThey.  I am hopeful that along about the 500th time I set you up with this straight line, you'll deliver the punch.  We have about 200 more to go.  Apparently.
With the season over, I release my adoptee Brian Sabean. Good luck in the world, little buddy.

by Mayor of 311 on Nov 10, 2007 11:49 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Delayed Outrage
There's a piece of knowledge that's sure to get me laid countless times in the future....

by ololo3 on Nov 10, 2007 12:05 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Delayed Outrage
I know I can't even count the number of times I've been laid since I started using that in my pick up lines.
Dave Righetti: You Know You Want It. / Also, my blog. For writers.

by howtheyscored on Nov 10, 2007 12:32 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Delayed Outrage
From - http://sanfrancisco.giants.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071107&content_id=2295617&vkey=new s_sf&fext=.jsp&c_id=sf

On Omar

"In a lot of ways he outplayed his previous two years," Giants general manager Brian Sabean said recently, referring to seasons in which Vizquel won his 10th and 11th Gold Glove awards. Vizquel recorded a .986 fielding percentage this season, second among National League shortstops to Colorado's Troy Tulowitzki (.987).

If by outplayed you mean, did worse than his previous 2 years by far, then I agree.

by xanthan on Nov 9, 2007 1:55 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Delayed Outrage
WHAT.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Nov 9, 2007 3:06 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Delayed Outrage
Yeah, I heard Omar spent a lot more time with the guitar than the hitting coach this year.

by kingofthacove on Nov 9, 2007 3:55 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Delayed Outrage
I think that was a mis-qoute. He surely meant to say "In a lot of ways, he played over his head the last two years."
Fool me seven times, shame on you. Fool me eight or more times, shame on me.

by Bhaakon on Nov 9, 2007 8:00 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Delayed Outrage
"In a lot of ways, he played the last two years."
Dave Righetti: You Know You Want It. / Also, my blog. For writers.

by howtheyscored on Nov 9, 2007 8:04 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Delayed Outrage
It looks like it.  Although if they're saying the Giants lost because Bonds got payed too much, they are wrong.  It's hard for me to tell since I can't read ___.

P.S.  That image practically broke my internets.

Adoptive father of David Quinowski: Fuck it, dude, let's go bowling

by marcello on Nov 9, 2007 1:56 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Delayed Outrage
Sorry, Baron, but that image almost broke my internets too. Link or crop, if you could. That thing was freaking huge.

by Grant on Nov 9, 2007 2:01 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Delayed Outrage
The fact that things like this exist show how much Sabean is respected these days.

I've said this before but the man is so blinded by pride that he refuses to acknowledge even his most obvious blunders.  Perhaps, just perhaps, had he ever given and interview where he showed even the slightest amount of humility, cognisant Giant fans would give him a slightly longer leash.  It absolutely disgusts me how good he has become at finger-pointing and blame-deflecting.

Anyway, sorry for the rant...here's my quote:

"Well, we had some hot-outs."

--Sabean referring to some of the hard-hit line drives that resulted in outs in a game where the Giants were shut out by the Brewers' Wes Obermueller.  Circa 2004.

I'd kick more tires if I weren't so hamstrung.

by Woody Wins on Nov 9, 2007 2:09 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Delayed Outrage
"Sabean praised Vizquel's 'athleticism and year-round work habits, more so his enthusiasm and passion for the game. He's going to be the glue in the middle of the infield, really as long as he wants to play.'"

From here:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/11/07/SPIST7O6R.DTL&hw=vizquel&sn=006& amp;sc=174

So I guess we should look forward to having Omar in the infield for another 5 years?!  This quote terrifies me and further proves to me that Sabean is an idiot.  

by Chaco on Nov 9, 2007 2:42 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Delayed Outrage
Anything about Vizquel pales into comparison with Feliz.  How about this, from today's signing announcement re Vizquel:

While the Giants are discussing bringing back third baseman Pedro Feliz, Sabean said that if Feliz wants a multiyear deal it might not be something the Giants pursue. Sabean acknowledged he had no discussions with the representative for Alex Rodriguez, Scott Boras, at the general managers' meetings this week in Orlando.

from here:

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-giants-vizquel&prov=ap&type=lgns

by NiceGuysFinishEtc on Nov 9, 2007 3:23 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Delayed Outrage
Forgot to mention . . . the topper for me was not merely that they are considering bringing him back but the notion that they "might not" pursue a multi-year deal.  How about "abso-freaking-lutely never" consider letting the guy in the ballpark again?

by NiceGuysFinishEtc on Nov 9, 2007 3:26 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Delayed Outrage
Wow... LaRoche for Lowry. Get it done so we don't have to talk about this.

by CrackaJack on Nov 9, 2007 4:29 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No Feliz please.
I can't take another year of his ineptitude.   Do not resign him.

by beaunose on Nov 9, 2007 3:37 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Delayed Outrage
There are so many to choose from.  Try these on.

"Neifi is an accomplished Major League middle infielder who increases our pool of choices at second base while we wait for the free agent market to further define itself," said Sabean.

"Neifi is an accomplished Major League middle infielder who can hit for average, run well and play on either side of second base" said Sabean. "Like a lot of the players we've signed this winter, he'll provide Felipe (Alou) with a lot of versatility. Neifi has the advantage of being a switch hitter and can steal a base when called upon. He adds depth to our infield on any given day."

"You can never pass up an opportunity to add a young left-handed hitting catcher who has been an All-Star and owns post season experience," Sabean said. "A.J. is a young man who's just coming into his prime and we're excited about adding a quality left-handed bat to our lineup."

"LaTroy's acquisition certainly strengthens and deepens our bullpen, which obviously needs bolstering," said Sabean.

"The type of person or professional I am, I don't take any satisfaction in anybody's demise or inability to do his job," Sabean said. "I'll say one thing about Armando. He was strong enough to be a whipping boy.

by slcgiant on Nov 9, 2007 5:32 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Delayed Outrage
"The type of person or professional I am...."  So, what, someone can't be both a person AND a professional?  Ouch.  Maybe if Sabes wasn't so much of a person, he'd also be strong enough to be a whipping boy....

by ololo3 on Nov 10, 2007 12:23 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Delayed Outrage
The fact that Sabean still has a job is ludicrous
Frandsen for 3B (til July 08)

by NeifiChicken on Nov 9, 2007 5:43 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Delayed Outrage
The first rule of Fight Club is, you do not trade Tim Lincecum. #2 - The second rule of Fight Club is, you DO NOT trade Tim Lincecum.

And don't trade Cain either.

by Dan from NM on Nov 9, 2007 6:58 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Delayed Outrage
I would like to apologize for this post. First, it's in the wrong thread. Second, I was drunk. Third, I'm not as funny as I think.

by Dan from NM on Nov 10, 2007 10:37 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Delayed Outrage
In any other line of work, Sabean would have been fired for incompetence long ago.  He made good trades for Snow, Livan, Kent, and Schmidt, but the times have moved on past him a long time ago.  And the plurality of his positive results seem to have come because Bonds decided got pissed at Mark McGwire's fame back in 98.  Anyway, my opinion is, yes, our team is an absolute mess, and it is pretty much 100% Sabean's fault.

In other news : yes Feliz flails at pitches way off the plate, looking clueless in the process.  Yes no team can afford 4-5 under .310 OBPs in the lineup and expect to sniff .500.  And yes the following stats are cherry picked, and they don't tell the story, blah blah.  Yes we could and should do a lot better than Fleas.

That said [ducking] :

RBIs, SF Giants, 2004-2007
PedroFeliz    335
RayDurham    291
BarryBonds    254
OmarVizquel    154
RandyWinn    147
MoisesAlou    137
EdgardoAlfonzo    120
MarquisGrissom    105
J.T.Snow    100
MichaelTucker    95

Total Bases, SF Giants, 2004-2007
PedroFeliz    975
RayDurham    868
BarryBonds    723
RandyWinn    648
OmarVizquel    586
MoisesAlou    418
J.T.Snow    317
MichaelTucker    284
EdgardoAlfonzo    338
MikeMatheny    234

by SnowLeopard on Nov 9, 2007 7:33 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Delayed Outrage
Yes, you're right, the Giants have sucked offensively since 2004!
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Nov 9, 2007 8:14 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Snow Leopard Been Eating that Yellow Snow!
That argument re total bases is about the most specious thing I've seen that HASN'T come out of BS's office itself.  Very few of those players played in all four years Leopard selected.  Let's ignore the outs Double Playdro makes and instead look at total bases per at bat.

Total Bases Per At Bat, SF Giants, 2004-2007           
BarryBonds        723    1122    0.64
MoisesAlou        418    772    0.54
RandyWinn        648    1397    0.46
RayDurham        868    1930    0.45
J.T.Snow        317    713    0.44
PedroFeliz        975    2232    0.44
M. Tucker        284    714    0.40
MikeMatheny        234    603    0.39
Ed.Alfonzo        338    887    0.38
OmarVizquel        586    1660    0.35

Whoop de do, he's better than Tucker, Matheny, Alfonzo, and Vizquel.

by NiceGuysFinishEtc on Nov 9, 2007 9:17 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Delayed Outrage
Oh my goodness, there are so many contenders...
"Don't talk to me about on-base percentage; that sabermetrics crap just gives me a headache."

I don't care if it's apocryphal. I don't care if he didn't actually say it. He still meant it.

"People are getting the message. The right people are getting it, but the people we want to further attract, or make sure we hold onto, are being affected by what we consider the lunatic fringe. That's my frustration, that they don't have a bigger view of the world."

I love that BS sees himself as broad-minded, intellectually curious and sane. And the rest of us are knuckle-dragging, narrow-minded mouth-breathers for having the temerity to think and even go so far as speak aloud the notion that the Giants should've tried to sign Vladimir Guerrero.

"We are at a crossroads in my mind, and apparently the fans, the press and some people in the clubhouse felt he needed to go. Now we're going to find out what they're made of. We'll see who's strong enough to be the whipping boy now."

The theme that stands out for me is BS's utter contempt for Giants fans. It's one thing to harbor this kind of contempt in secret. With BS, it's on display, paraded arrogantly and repeatedly.

The worst quote, though...the most idiotic and incomprehensible quote of all, doesn't actually come from BS. It comes from Peter Magowan, at the press conference announcing BS's 2-year contract extension:

"It's evident that he is a shrewd baseball man who will find a way to get this team back to where we all want it to be."

by tobias on Nov 9, 2007 11:56 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Delayed Outrage

I guess, from our perspective.  "The only thing worse than an idiot, is an idiot that gets lucky for a couple of years".

by zenbitz on Nov 11, 2007 3:17 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Delayed Outrage
The makeover of the Giants started this past mid season trade deadline will last best case scenario through next years off season.  It's just not possible to turnover the roster in one offseason, not without over-paying in terms of trade talent and free agent $$$.

I have zero problems with the resigning of Vizquel, with 3 projected lefties on the starting 2 whom are not strike out pitchers, Lowery (for now) and Zito are happy guys right now.

It's a one year deal with a vesting option (140 game played).  The deal doesn't contain any "no-trade" provisions nor does Vizquel have 5-10 rights.

I expect Vizquel to play slightly less than full-time and for his year to come in somewhere between his 2006-07 performances.  If is team is now a speed/defense team he certainly fits the mold.

I also expect he will either

1 be traded at next years trade deadline, or

2 played so that his deal does not vest and he leaves as a free agent (this year he was a type B which would entitle the Giants to sandwich pick)

Having a shortstop who makes all the routine plays like he does is ideal when you are developing young arms AND he wanted to be here.  This was a no-brainer.

by Bern SF on Nov 11, 2007 10:41 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Delayed Outrage
The makeover of the Giants started this past mid season trade deadline will last best case scenario through next years off season.

Jeez, I hope not.

*  It's just not possible to turnover the roster in one offseason, not without over-paying in terms of trade talent and free agent $$$.

It IS however possible to overpay in terms of trade talent and free agent $$ without significantly improving the team

*I have zero problems with the resigning of Vizquel, with 3 projected lefties on the starting 2 whom are not strike out pitchers, Lowery (for now) and Zito are happy guys right now.

Cain, however, remembers what it's like to pitch when your team can't score.

1 be traded at next years trade deadline, or

Most of Sabean's deals seem OK if his plan is to actually trade the overpriced veteran savvy for some young talent before the deadline.  And yet, it never happens.

This was a no-brainer.

Oh, I agree sir, I agree.

by zenbitz on Nov 12, 2007 11:38 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Delayed Outrage
RE: Omar  being  played ( with out merit)  so that his vesting option does not kick in.  

  Did Sabean fire Botchy while I was gone for the week end?  

     If not this is another Durham type deal. Maybe little smaller in scope but remarkably similar.

    Else we are reliant on Sabean trading a  " Savvy Veteran " player away before Bochy triggers the option.  

by daveinexile on Nov 12, 2007 9:00 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Delayed Outrage

"In some ways, we scored enough runs"

When referring to the downfalls of the 2007 season.

I know he was referring to the bullpen, and it was bad at times but I simply can't stand how little he seems to care about fielding a major league lineup.

On a side note this is one of my first posts in this excellent forum.

I'm a hardcore SF Giants fan and I have read all the subjects and all the posts from this website every day for the past few years now and have never thought about joining in the fray but I think I might try from now on.

by hollywoodlarry on Nov 12, 2007 6:01 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Delayed Outrage
Make sure you're witty. Voting for newcomer of the year is still ongoing.
My boy ain't fat, he's just big boned. Big bat, too.

by Roger on Nov 12, 2007 8:58 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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