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Around SBN: Kentucky Wildcats 66, Alabama Crimson Tide, 55: Postmortem

ART

by Grant on Nov 20, 2007 2:07 PM PST in News Comment 58 comments

The Giants aren't in a position to trade for peak-value players. They aren't going to get their grubby little paws on players like Howie Kendrick, Jay Bruce, and Joba Chamberlain. Ergo, my All-Realistic Target team:

C - Jeff Clement (blocked by Johijima)

1B - Mike Jacobs (low OBP, but it's possible he hasn't hit his peak yet.)

2B - Jared Goedert (farther away from the majors than the rest, but this would give the Kevin Frandsen experiment some time)

SS - Ben Zobrist (over .400 OBP at every stop in the minors with great defense; blocked by Brendan Harris and Reid Brignac)

3B - Andy Marte (out of options; former top prospect)

LF - Adam Lind (nice power; low-OBP in a OBP-fetish organization, but still just 23)

CF - Jason Ellison (the Giants don't need any more centerfielders...at all. They need power, and there isn't a CF with power who isn't going to cost a premium)

RF - Nelson Cruz (miserable start to his MLB career, but great minor league numbers)

The Giants couldn't trade for all of these players, but if any of them can be had for some of the lesser prospects, it would be a good way to build some top-level depth for the AAA/MLB shuttle and get a couple of immediate starters. Jacobs is probably the biggest stretch, as he's not likely to be cheap when the Giants are good again. If you don't accept his inclusion on this list, allow me to substitute Joe Dillon.

Comment starter: Any favorites of yours who could be had on the open market?

0 recs | Comment 58 comments

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Comments

Re: ART

A hearty thumbs up to Ben Zobrist and Jeff Clement; they seem the most "blocked" and would fill great needs, and I think we have something their current teams might want. Mike Jacobs maybe, although I've been convinced by the posters here that Sexson might be worth a gamble in a salary swap. The others not so much.

The SF Giants: agressively promoting young talent since 2008.

by Lyle on Nov 20, 2007 2:04 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: ART

Why go after Mike Jacobs when you could get this guy? Jordan Brown, like Clement, is blocked at the major league level (Ryan Garko). He has sported a BB/K ratio close to one and isn't considered an elite prospect because he doesn't hit many HRs for a guy with his build. He only hits doubles!

by Nathan on Nov 20, 2007 2:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Two Bums might be available

The Dodgers for some reason are constantly looking to upgrade 3b even though they have Andy LaRoche ready, willing and able. Another bum who could be had at the right price is Delwyn Young who will be 26 yrs old next season.

by wilriv21 on Nov 20, 2007 2:07 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Two Bums might be available

I think there is a big difference between A-Rod and Miguel Cabrera versus Andy LaRoche, as nice a prospect as he is, and thus their interest in upgrading.

Blake DeWitt was a 3B blocked by LaRoche so he moved to 2B. Not sure what the Dodgers are thinking about 2B if Kent leaves, but thought I would throw his name out there, seems like a nice hitter.

"I'm a Giant now... I like watching the ball get up there" - Wendell Fairley "I'm really proud to be on this team." - Nate Schierholtz

by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Nov 20, 2007 8:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Two Bums might be available

Apparently LA made a 4 yr offer to Mike Lowell.

by wilriv21 on Nov 20, 2007 9:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Two Bums might be available

There's clearly a difference between an obvious first ballot HOFer and a probable HOFer and any prospect. That said, there's a much smaller difference between LaRoche and Betemit, or LaRoche and hobble-legged Nomar. This doesn't seem to be a case so much of a special option popping up and blocking LaRoche, but rather a distinct consideration on the organization's part that LaRoche doesn't deserve the job and they need to find someone -- anyone -- else to take over.

My boy ain't fat, he's just big boned. Big bat, too.

by Roger on Nov 21, 2007 8:38 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: ART

Give me Milledge or give me death!!!

Matt Williams....My Hero!!!

by ACgiant87 on Nov 20, 2007 2:10 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: ART

I keep seeing Milledge's name mentioned in posts like this. Is this serious, or am I late to an inside joke?

Personally, I'm just not seeing a whole lot of upside to the guy.

by tobias on Nov 20, 2007 5:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: ART

um . . . Power, speed and great defense in a high OBP young package that made it to the majors in three years outta high school.

er, if he doesn't have upside, not many people do.

he just got a bad rap in NY. Let's think like not-sabean for a minute. Cutting a rap album has affected his value as a commodity, though his baseball talent stays unaffected. this is the very definition of buying correctly.

Pedro Feliz: Marginally better this year.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Nov 20, 2007 10:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: ART

Power? 15 HR in 2004, 8 in 2005, 11 in 2006 and 2007? That's not what I would call a power hitter. And even Schierholtz has had better Minor League SLG than Milledge's .479.

As for Milledge's speed, it doesn't seem to translate into much in the way of base-stealing success. Pretty much 2 for 3, which is downright poor for a minor leaguer. I don't even see a lot of triples from this guy.

His OBP is promising, and he showed some moderate promise with the Mets this past year, but I really don't see much to get excited about. I think there are far better prospects out there who can be had for less than the overrated, over-hyped Milledge.

by tobias on Nov 21, 2007 8:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: ART

well when you power through the minors as fast as Milledge did (reached the majors at 21), I think it's okay that his homers were just subpar. He still has projectability in his swing and since he'll be just twenty-three next year, it's safe to assume he has some growing time and should be quite well adjusted to MLB pitching.

The difference in OPS is nil between Schierholtz and Milledge, but i'll give the edge to Schierholtz because of the homeruns. However, because milledge has made it to the majors quickly and performed at pretty much Randy Winn's level during only his second year is pretty impressive. I think Nate still needs more time in the majors before anyone should lay down any kind of judgement.

Still, i like Milledge better than Schierholtz and I think he could be quite good for some time. at the absolute worst, he's Randy Winn Plus.

Also, New York apparently isn't all that infatuated with him. (signing shawn green + moises alou and their comments to the press) I think we could still have him for cheap.

Pedro Feliz: Marginally better this year.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Nov 22, 2007 9:29 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: ART

I honestly think we could pick up Marte for one of our bullpen arms. A Hennessy or even a Messenger with maybe a side helping of Taschner should do it.

My boy ain't fat, he's just big boned. Big bat, too.

by Roger on Nov 20, 2007 2:19 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: ART

Doubtful. Not when you consider they had four non-closer relievers (Perez, Betancourt, Lewis, Fultz) who sported better ERAs, WHIPs and K/9 rates than both Messenger and Hennessey. They also just signed this guy.

Also, their organization isn't one for trading for relievers or giving relievers long contracts. Atleast since they traded for Blob Wickman.

by Nathan on Nov 20, 2007 2:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: ART

True, but bullpen seems to be the area of concentration for their offseason and Marte's is gone for 2008. They can't keep him unless he's on the big club and I don't see how they find a roster spot for him. Every day that ticks off the calendar they're getting closer to a choice of selling him cheap or putting him on waivers.

My boy ain't fat, he's just big boned. Big bat, too.

by Roger on Nov 21, 2007 8:33 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: ART

Season ending press conference. Here's what the Indians are supposedly thinking.

I think Marte can be had. Some things to consider.

Indians have NO high level (AA, AAA) minor league depth at the position. If the Indians move him before spring training, the price will be steep.
Bullpen arms will certainly not get that trade done. (A) Their major league and minor league depth is good. (B) The Indians don't view relievers as being worth more than 1-2 year contracts. Thus, they'd view any trade of a reliever as a 1-2 year rental, at best. I seriously doubt that they'd part with their only viable 3B prospect for a relief pitcher.

Their only real NEED is @ 3B and LF. Every other position has good young talent. There are two Indians players on Grant's list (Goedert and Marte). I could certainly see the Giants acquiring Quentin from the Diamondbacks (in a Lowry trade) and shipping Quentin to the Indians for Andy Marte (3B), Jard Goedert (2B) and maybe Jordan (1B).

by Nathan on Nov 21, 2007 12:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: ART

The Giants should target teams that need #3/#4/#5 type starters. Milwaukee and Arizona are the two that immediately come to mind. The good news is that both teams do a good job developing position talent. Not so much with the pitching.

The fact that Milwaukee trading anything more than a warm bag of peanuts for Mota tells you what you could fetch for Lowry or Snachez.

by Nathan on Nov 21, 2007 12:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: ART

Steven Pearce?

by KCE on Nov 20, 2007 2:20 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: ART

I've never actually seen Pearce play, but his stats are impressive, which probably makes him close to untouchable for Pittsburgh.

by Buzzword on Nov 20, 2007 3:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: ART

maybe they'll take Zito for him?

Bonds stands alone.

by nostocksjustbonds on Nov 20, 2007 8:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: ART

I think you could argue that we've got equivalents of several of those guys in our own system. Justin Leone for Joe Dillon. Eugenio Velez or Antoan Richardson or several other guys for Ben Zobrist. Frankly, I don't see the point with a number of these picks. Clement would be nice, and I could handle taking a flyer on Marte.

***

Succumb to the Enchanted t-shirt! Adopted dad of Minor Izzy

by hairball on Nov 20, 2007 2:34 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: ART

Justin Leone = minor league FA. Although I'd rather see him starting in 08 than Fleas.

Other than that, good points. See no need especially to trade for a 2B.

by SnowLeopard on Nov 20, 2007 2:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: ART

I'd rather see Sergio Leone instead of Feliz. At least he is a "Professional"

by Armz Dealer on Nov 20, 2007 7:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: ART

I'd rather see Tea Leoni instead of Feliz

Bonds stands alone.

by nostocksjustbonds on Nov 20, 2007 8:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

(polite golf clap)

With the season over, I release my adoptee Brian Sabean. Good luck in the world, little buddy.

by Mayor of 311 on Nov 21, 2007 12:10 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: ART

(impolite golf clap)

by SnowLeopard on Nov 21, 2007 12:59 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Tea Leoni

Strangely, David Duchovny would rather see Pedro Feliz at 3B for the Giants. Go figure.

The SF Giants: agressively promoting young talent since 2008.

by Lyle on Nov 21, 2007 3:07 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: ART

For the past three years, Joe Dillon has had a AAA OPS of over 1.000. The last time Leone broke .900 was in '04.

And comparing Antoan and Velez to Zobrist doesn't make sense. Zobrist is a solid glove at short, and he's never had a minor league OBP under .400. Richardson is a low-level center fielder, and Velez is a CF/2B with a .350 career minor league OBP.

by Grant on Nov 20, 2007 2:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: ART

Oops pow surprise!

Thank God that's over.

by southcitysteve on Nov 20, 2007 3:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: ART

I may have been a bit hasty. I'll look closer at the differences between Dillon and Leone.

Maybe I just needed a bit more explanation on why to take these guys. At first glance, I saw another old minor league 3B with power, and another young speedy minor leaguer without power. Based on those admittedly vague, catch-all factors, I thought, boy, we have those already.

Should have known better than to mess with the big G.

***

Succumb to the Enchanted t-shirt! Adopted dad of Minor Izzy

by hairball on Nov 20, 2007 3:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: ART

Sixty percent of the time, I research half of the crap I write about all of the time.

by Grant on Nov 20, 2007 3:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: ART

I don't really know much about him, but reading what people here think of him... The idea of getting Jeff Clement has me genuinely excited. Here's hoping!

"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler

by JRPhillips on Nov 20, 2007 2:43 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: ART

I think that the emergence of Daric Barton, and Billy's fetish for defense keeping Cust out of the outfield, may make Dan Johnson available. Although any player from our minor league system that Billy asks for are probably exactly the ones we should hold on to ...

by SnowLeopard on Nov 20, 2007 2:49 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: ART

I've long been in favor of acquiring DJ.

***

Succumb to the Enchanted t-shirt! Adopted dad of Minor Izzy

by hairball on Nov 20, 2007 3:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: ART

DJ is definitely available.

The Giants could probably flip the guy they got for Sweeney (Denker? I forget his name) to the A's for DJ. I think he'd be a league-average first baseman in the NL for essentially the league minimum salary, which is a lot better of an option than Sexson.

by PaulThomas on Nov 20, 2007 5:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: ART

I'm afraid of what would happen if we tried to make a trade with Oakland.

Brian Sabean: So, Billy, what kind of starting point are we looking at for Dan Johson?

Billy Beane: What have you got?

BS: Well, that's the thing. I don't know their names personally but I had my assistant make a list and we'll fax it straight over.

Fax Machine: Beep beep beep beep beep beep beep boooooooooooooooop boo boo boooooooooooooooop riiing riiing riiing dzzzzzzzja woop.

BB: Yeah Brian, got it. Let me take a look here.

<silence>

BS: Hello?

BB: One second there, B. I think I'm onto something. Hold on, alright, I'm going to get the Rays on the phone.

BS: Oh. I see. So, uh... that's it? Should I call you back?

BB: No, no, Brian. Stay on. We're just going to three-way this conversation.

BS: Three... uh... hey, listen, I'm not here to kick those tires. I'll just call back later. You know. Let me know what the D-Rays-

BB: Rays. No D anymore. They're just the Rays.

BS: You're shitting me?

BB: Jesus Christ....

<silence>

BB: No, I'm not shitting you.

BS: Hot damn. Anyway, just let me know what the "Rays" offer you for Dan. We'll see about matching it.

BB: Listen, no, you're not understanding me. I think you have something the Rays could use. They have something I could use. And I have something you could use. Following?

BS:...kind of...

BB: So i'm just going to get them on the phone here.

BS: I think I see what you're getting at. Just call me back when you're done there.

BB: No, Brian, we can all talk at the same time.

BS: Don't fuck with me, Beaney. You know I don't like these mind games of yours.

BB: Just calm down, man. Just listen. We can all be on the phone at the same time. Talking to each other.

BS: We both know that's impossible.

BB: Screw it, I'm dialing. Learn by doing, "Sabesey."

<ringing on line>

BS: What the hell?

BB: That's the Rays. They'll pick up in a minute. We'll get this whole thing figured out.

BS: What the hell kind of game are you playing at, Billy? What are they offering? What do they want???

BB: Calm... just calm down.

BS: Where's that list? Ah. Here, here. What have the got? We've got Cain and Lin-see-cume...? Or something. Let's start there!

BB: Alright, alright, don't twist my arm.

<Beane hangs up on Rays>

<day ends>

Dave Righetti: You Know You Want It. / Also, my blog. For writers.

by howtheyscored on Nov 20, 2007 10:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: ART

[Gentleman in tuxedo, with closely trimmed grey moustache, rises out of finely apolstered seat in opera house, clapping vigorously. Close up of eye - a tiny tear is forming.]

"BRAVO! BRAVO!!"

by SnowLeopard on Nov 21, 2007 12:54 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Sabean phones Beane

Excellent, Garrett! I think you perfectly captured the dynamic of their relationship. Please keep us updated on Brian's phone calls with other GM's.

The SF Giants: agressively promoting young talent since 2008.

by Lyle on Nov 21, 2007 3:12 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: ART

Really, hts - At the end of the day, I think Sabes knows what a conference call is.

However I am pretty sure that his VCR flashes "12:00"

by zenbitz on Nov 21, 2007 9:23 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

DJ definitely available

just not sure what type of value he has

apparently Johnson was one of Theo's targets as a 1b, if they didnt resign Lowell and had to move Youkilis back to 3b. so i guess he has some value as a league minimum 1b, 3 yrs from free agency. wouldnt take any top prospects, but maybe some 2nd tier ones

by rayver723 on Nov 20, 2007 11:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: ART

Clement will be hard to get, but the Lowry possibility looms. Obviously I'd like to have him though

I'm a big Lillibridge guy as well, he's blocked by Yunel and Elvis.

I like Wladamir Balentien, but I don't think we could get both Clement and him. Still, 2/3 of SEA's OF is set with Jones and Ichiro, he's not untouchable.

Frandsen for 3B (til July 08)

by NeifiChicken on Nov 20, 2007 3:02 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: ART

he's blocked by Yunel and Elvis

You're gonna slap your forehead in a minute.

by Evan on Nov 20, 2007 3:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: ART

Woops...forgot he got traded to Tex for Teix

Still...blocked by Yunel

Frandsen for 3B (til July 08)

by NeifiChicken on Nov 20, 2007 3:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: ART

As much as I want to have Clement, I have to think that the Mariners are going to hand onto him as their catcher of the future. Johjima's contract is up after this year, so my guess is that they'll give Clement a year as the backup and then they'll plan on starting him.

Steve Kline: How okay is he, really? I would say he is pretty okay.

by groug on Nov 20, 2007 3:29 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: ART

I'd take Lind and Zobrist.

Democracy is lovely but baseball is more mature. BVCE supports Manny Burriss and SF Dugout.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Nov 20, 2007 4:02 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: ART

KC has a whole $#@%load of first basemen. How about taking a flyer on Craig Brazell just to see what would happen if you handed him 600 MLB AB's?

by DrBGiantsfan on Nov 20, 2007 5:08 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: ART

If you're picking up random minor league sluggers, I'd suggest Val Pascucci, whose MiLB numbers are a zillion times better than Brazell's. He might well have a starting job today if Montreal hadn't been run by brainless incompetents... er, excuse me, Omar Minaya in the early part of the decade.

by PaulThomas on Nov 20, 2007 5:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Zillion?

Sure, I'd take a flyer on Pascucci too. I think to say his numbers are a "zillion" times better is a bit hyperbolic. Here's their career minor league stats:

Brazell- .284/.320/.490

Pascucci- .275/.395/.490.

by DrBGiantsfan on Nov 20, 2007 10:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: ART

What would the Giants have to give up to get Adam Lind? He's probably the only player mentioned that I'd be interested in.

by Cainer on Nov 20, 2007 6:12 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: ART

Sabean needs to make a serious push to get Jason Ellison.

Nattowear | comics | Durham? I hardly know 'im!

by Natto on Nov 20, 2007 8:25 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: ART

I thought we agreed that we aren't gonna trade Timmy?

by SnowLeopard on Nov 20, 2007 8:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: ART

Dang it, I thought this was going to be a topic about Art Vandelay.

Adopted Giant Brian Wilson: Welcome Back!

by sfgreg on Nov 20, 2007 8:26 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: ART

Josh Phelps is free and has a career line of .273/.344/.476. I suppose he's kind of a stathead cliche at this point, but he could probably handle first base.

As an Albuquerque Isotopes fan, I heartily endorse Joe Dillon, who hit .360 here a few years ago. He's getting a little old. He'll be 32 next year.

I'd be thrilled to have Jeff Clement, but, you know, I don't think I'm as high on him as some of you. There are real questions about his defense, and his offensive track record isn't spotless either. He had some pretty rough stretches this year in Triple-A. I'd still like to have him, of course.

by Dan from NM on Nov 20, 2007 9:31 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: ART

I believe Albuquerque is the best hitters' park in baseball these days, so I'd be leery of Dillon's numbers. (Also Pascucci, Seabol, etc.). Dillon did hit well this year with Nashville, though.

I used to go to a lot of Dukes games when I was a kid, and I remember it being even crazier then. Every game seemed to end up 11-7 or something. Greg Brock hit 44 home runs one year and we thought he was going to be a superstar. Mike Marshall hit .373 one year and .388 the next, with power. Candy Maldonado hit .335/.398/.598. Mickey Friggin' Hatcher hit .371. Then these guys would get to Chavez Ravine and flop.

This was pre-Coors, and I don't think it had really occurred to people yet that baseball was just a drastically different game at high altitude. It was fun to watch, though.

+1 on Clement.

by Evan on Nov 21, 2007 7:16 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Drunk

Yep, Albuquerque is at a higher elevation than Denver, and it's one of the most extreme environments in baseball. Nevertheless, Baseball Prospectus translates Dillon's 2005 as .292/.378/.488, which ain't bad.

by Dan from NM on Nov 21, 2007 11:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Todd linden is back in the bay

or california at least with AAA Sacramento for 08.signed as an milb FA with A's. is this guy done or does Beane tur nhim into another Jack Cust lol

by rayver723 on Nov 20, 2007 11:40 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Todd linden is back in the bay

A's do seem to do better with developing hitters than we do ...

by SnowLeopard on Nov 21, 2007 12:47 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: ART

There's lots of interesting names there, but it'd depend on how much they required in return.

Lowry & Sanchez are probably our most valuable players in trade talks, and personally i'd like to see us use them to upgrade at 2 of 1B, 3B, C or SS. If we can get good prospects for lesser players then we should look to make such deals.

Clement, Zobrist & Lind are the most interesting of those prospects & Marte would be worth trying to get too. Jacobs, Goedert & Cruz may be worth a shot as well, although i wouldn't be looking to give up too much for them.

Dan Johnson is a case of the grass is greener, and has put up poor offensive numbers (Like Feliz, but without the glove) I certainly wouldn't be interested in giving up much for him, but he may be worth a low risk shot.

by GiantFan on Nov 21, 2007 4:54 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: ART

Why hello, person who's never posted before.

Nattowear | comics | Durham? I hardly know 'im!

by Natto on Nov 24, 2007 4:19 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

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