Change
Joe Lefebvre is out as the Giants hitting coach. Here's a handy guide for the next guy:
What Lefebvre said to Ray Durham:
What Lefebvre should have said to Ray Durham:
What Lefebvre said to Rich Aurilia:
What Lefebvre should have said to Rich Aurilia
There are really good hitting coaches, I'm sure. It's likely that there are terrible hitting coaches who are too quick to tinker with the swings of young players. I don't think Lefebvre was the former; he wasn't magic. And he probably wasn't the latter; the young players the Giants had did just fine, for the most part.
Am I being too glib? Is there really a hope that the Giants can bring in some hitting genius to help the offense? My guarantee: the new guy is going to be hired based on his theories of littlethingsology. Hitting to the right side with no outs. Sacrifice flies to set up the sacrifice bunts that set up the sacrifice flies. Hopefully, he'll also be able to bring something substantial to the table.
Dual comment starter: Does the hitting coach make a huge difference at the MLB level? And who's your guess at Lefebvre's replacement? I'm guessing J.T. Snow, though that's nothing but speculation.
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94 comments
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Re: Change
by Mark carry on on
Oct 9, 2007 1:43 PM PDT
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Re: Change
by Bhaakon on
Oct 9, 2007 2:27 PM PDT
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Re: Change
"Matt, Matt, Matt, you're being glib"
Anyways, huzzah! I'm glad to see Joe go. I don't think coaches can polish a turd into gold but at the same time I think they can help.
I can't remember what game it was this year, but the Giants were getting shutout and by the 7th inning or so the other pitcher had only thrown 70 pitches at most. They did a in-game interview with Joe and he rambled off this piece of advice "I think we just need to be more aggressive" I couldn't believe it. I expected to hear "Maybe take a few pitches, be selective, look for something to drive" but, instead, his response was "HACK AWAY FELLAS!"
by xanthan on
Oct 9, 2007 1:44 PM PDT
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Re: Change
by Lyle on
Oct 10, 2007 6:40 AM PDT
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Re: Change
by leftymalo on
Oct 9, 2007 1:45 PM PDT
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Re: Change
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on
Oct 9, 2007 1:56 PM PDT
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Re: Change
by nvsfg on
Oct 9, 2007 2:04 PM PDT
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Re: Change
by Lipssan1 on
Oct 9, 2007 3:54 PM PDT
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Re: Change
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on
Oct 9, 2007 5:15 PM PDT
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Re: Change
PBB <hearts> older ladies...not just the MILF's
by PacBellBoozer on
Oct 9, 2007 9:13 PM PDT
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Re: Change
Probably a good thing she's an ex.
by BruteSentiment on
Oct 9, 2007 5:24 PM PDT
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Re: Change
by howtheyscored on
Oct 9, 2007 5:34 PM PDT
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Re: Change

by PacBellBoozer on
Oct 9, 2007 1:46 PM PDT
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Re: Change
::sniff::
Talk about Sabes' dumpster diving, though, check out that shirt.
by satyricrash on
Oct 9, 2007 5:41 PM PDT
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Re: Change
by robbgin on
Oct 9, 2007 1:49 PM PDT
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Re: Change
by Natto on
Oct 9, 2007 1:59 PM PDT
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Another job?
by howtheyscored on
Oct 9, 2007 2:00 PM PDT
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Re: Another job?
by howtheyscored on
Oct 9, 2007 2:01 PM PDT
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Re: Another job?
Is that any better? Was any of that filth transferred to one PBB?!?
by PacBellBoozer on
Oct 9, 2007 2:32 PM PDT
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Sadly, no
by howtheyscored on
Oct 9, 2007 3:26 PM PDT
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Re: Change
I'd like to see JT get the job as hitting coach. If not, he can coach first base and work as an infield instructor, doing what Ron Washington did with the A's before he went to the Rangers. I think JT would make a great coach in any capacity.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on
Oct 9, 2007 2:02 PM PDT
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Re: Change
by howtheyscored on
Oct 9, 2007 2:03 PM PDT
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Re: Change
by Stuttering John Tamargo on
Oct 9, 2007 3:32 PM PDT
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Re: Change
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John , d'ja see this peephole down here?
by victor frankenstein on
Oct 9, 2007 5:05 PM PDT
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Re: Change
by Stuttering John Tamargo on
Oct 9, 2007 5:09 PM PDT
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Re: Change
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on
Oct 9, 2007 5:14 PM PDT
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Last time I ever reference anyone in a bowtie.
Then again, I'm pretty damn sure Rene Lachemann was also drooled over in that same book, and he's just as canned.
Bad day for dudes with weird French names.
by multiphasic on
Oct 9, 2007 2:20 PM PDT
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Re: Change
by EliminateMe on
Oct 9, 2007 2:24 PM PDT
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Re: Change
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on
Oct 9, 2007 2:27 PM PDT
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Clean-up on aisle 3
Why not Mr. San Diego? Yes, he is managing SDSU but he is also doing some tv work for TBS for MLB playoffs. Go ahead Bochy, give Tony Gwynn a call. He has the hitting credentials and has coached/managed so he knows how to instruct the kids. Would be nice to see a team full of hitters who have a plan and also use the entire field.
by wilriv21 on
Oct 9, 2007 2:38 PM PDT
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Upshaw
I bartend downtown SF and Upshaw used to come in like he owned the place. He would ask for twice as much--for half the price--and worst of all, since nobody recognized him (for good reason), he'd flash his 2002 NLCS ring around like as if it wasn't a huge spit in the face reminder of a World Series lost to Giants fans.
Oh, and he couldn't teach anybody how to hit either.
by Birdman on
Oct 9, 2007 2:39 PM PDT
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Re: Upshaw
You always see 'em whispering with the runner. I like to imagine they say something like "See that white thing over there? That's second base..."
by EliminateMe on
Oct 9, 2007 2:47 PM PDT
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Re: Upshaw
http://www.mccoveychronicles.com/comments/2005/9/29/43058/8029/8#8
I'm still available, but my price has gone up.
by Goofus on
Oct 9, 2007 3:14 PM PDT
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Re: Upshaw
by EliminateMe on
Oct 9, 2007 3:22 PM PDT
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Re: Upshaw
by JRPhillips on
Oct 9, 2007 3:58 PM PDT
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Re: Change
by orangeandblackattack on
Oct 9, 2007 3:03 PM PDT
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Re: Change
JT is my favorite as a replacement. Maybe he can teach Schierholz and Ort some plate discipline.
by southcitysteve on
Oct 9, 2007 3:05 PM PDT
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Re: Change
by southcitysteve on
Oct 9, 2007 3:26 PM PDT
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Re: Change
seriously, I'm thrilled about this. It shows that at least SOMEONE in SFG HQ is paying attention and making noises about being accountable.
Wooooo.
by delorean on
Oct 9, 2007 3:12 PM PDT
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No one told me it was Fucking Day
by Stuttering John Tamargo on
Oct 9, 2007 3:33 PM PDT
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Re: Change
by Traylude on
Oct 9, 2007 10:35 PM PDT
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yay!
This after the GM's candidate for team MVP had a .298 OBP with 15 walks and 53 strikeouts.
by wjackalope on
Oct 9, 2007 3:30 PM PDT
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Re: Change
Hearing how good Bobby Bonds was at identifying pitchers' pitch-sequence tendancies and identifying them tipping their pitches made me wish he was still alive and coaching our guys.
by Goofus on
Oct 9, 2007 4:01 PM PDT
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Re: Change
by Stuttering John Tamargo on
Oct 9, 2007 4:23 PM PDT
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Re: Change
by howtheyscored on
Oct 9, 2007 4:32 PM PDT
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Re: Change
by southcitysteve on
Oct 9, 2007 4:44 PM PDT
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Re: Change
Unless I have completely missed on my guess, Flannery failed Durham and Aurilia in that he couldn't correct their mistakes even enough to get them close to their career averages.
I think Snow is definitely worth a shot.
by Woody Wins on
Oct 9, 2007 4:08 PM PDT
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Re: Change
by Goofus on
Oct 9, 2007 4:40 PM PDT
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Re: Change
by Stuttering John Tamargo on
Oct 9, 2007 5:06 PM PDT
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Re: Change
by Woody Wins on
Oct 9, 2007 5:50 PM PDT
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Re: Change
by howtheyscored on
Oct 9, 2007 4:50 PM PDT
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Re: Change
by EliminateMe on
Oct 9, 2007 5:20 PM PDT
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Re: Change
by groug on
Oct 9, 2007 10:12 PM PDT
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Re: Change
by BCsteve on
Oct 9, 2007 5:20 PM PDT
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Re: Change
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on
Oct 9, 2007 5:23 PM PDT
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Re: Change
JT Snow's career AVG: .268
Morgan definitely had a more distinguished career than Snow, but not because of his batting average.
The thought of Rickey Henderson as a coach is hilarious enough to be worth trying for that reason alone. He'd be out there telling Bochy "You should put Rickey in, Rickey can still hit better than any of these guys..."
Or maybe he'd institute mandatory naked batting practice.
by EliminateMe on
Oct 9, 2007 5:32 PM PDT
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Re: Change
by BCsteve on
Oct 10, 2007 9:24 PM PDT
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Re: Change
I do think a pitching coach can make a difference at the big league level, but only when the hitters actually need help (which the Giants obviously did), and when the hitters listen.
I have no in-house candidates I'd suggest. None of the Giants hitting coaches in the minors have impressed me much. Although, maybe Roberto Kelly....
by BruteSentiment on
Oct 9, 2007 5:27 PM PDT
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Re: Change
by NearestNorwich on
Oct 9, 2007 5:27 PM PDT
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Re: Change
by NearestNorwich on
Oct 9, 2007 5:31 PM PDT
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Re: Change
by The Thrill on
Oct 9, 2007 5:43 PM PDT
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Re: Change
by EliminateMe on
Oct 9, 2007 5:49 PM PDT
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Re: Change
by Goofus on
Oct 9, 2007 6:29 PM PDT
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Re: Change
by Moggeee on
Oct 9, 2007 11:07 PM PDT
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Re: Change
But I would speculate that a hitting coach matters less on any team that has a great hitter like Bonds on it, even if the rest of the team is young. Bonds wasn't taking advice from Joe Lefevbre, I'm sure. And rookies who see Bonds not working with the hitting coach are (possibly even subconciously) going to be less likely to go to the coach themselves. By Lefevbre's own account, he mostly waited for players to come to him rather than approaching the players.
So, hypothetically, you might as well keep Lefevbre around as long as Bonds is on the team. With Bonds gone, you've got a better chance of having the coach make a difference, so you should make sure you actually have a good one...
by EliminateMe on
Oct 9, 2007 5:49 PM PDT
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Re: Change
by rxmeister on
Oct 9, 2007 7:05 PM PDT
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Can someone please explain
by Giant Fan in Singapore on
Oct 9, 2007 7:10 PM PDT
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Re: Can someone please explain
by southcitysteve on
Oct 9, 2007 9:39 PM PDT
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Check the bullpen
by Moggeee on
Oct 9, 2007 11:35 PM PDT
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This is like the SATs
Grant's in second place because he made us pass an intelligence test before we could vote.
by Moggeee on
Oct 9, 2007 11:22 PM PDT
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Re: Change
The new hitting coach should preach patience, especially to the young guys. The 2008 version of the Giants probably won't score much more than the 2007 version, but they have a fighting chance by getting the starters out early and forcing opponents to use their bullpen sooner.
Seriously, guys don't need a ton of power or superior physical skills to take pitches and foul off close ones and shorten their swings with 2 strikes. If they can't do that, they shouldn't be in the bigs.
by nostocksjustbonds on
Oct 9, 2007 7:21 PM PDT
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Re: Change
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on
Oct 9, 2007 7:53 PM PDT
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Making quick outs on slop nightly
by Moggeee on
Oct 9, 2007 11:26 PM PDT
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Re: Making quick outs on slop nightly
by Lyle on
Oct 10, 2007 7:02 AM PDT
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Re: Change
Lefebvre absolutely ripped him. What I remember most was a quote that went something like this:
"You aren't Barry. You aren't Moises. You dont have the bat-speed that those guys have. You have to stride on every pitch or else you aint hittin' shit."
Lefebvre was right to point out Tucker's bad habit but the way he was communicating with him led me to believe that he probably didn't earn a lot of respect in the clubhouse.
by Woody Wins on
Oct 9, 2007 8:22 PM PDT
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Re: Change
by milesntrane on
Oct 10, 2007 4:28 AM PDT
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Re: Change
by thatdog on
Oct 9, 2007 10:38 PM PDT
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Re: Change
by Moggeee on
Oct 9, 2007 11:28 PM PDT
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Re: Change
and why the fuck did they keep gardner for
and they dont even have balls when they fire anyone...they are gonna offer both jobs somewhere else in the org???
upshaw maybe, but joe shouldnt be allowed anywhere near prospects.
as for what a batting coach can do in the majors, not alot, but when i read that kfran had a conversation with bonds about his approach, and then amazingly his avg and power numbers go up...lefevbre wanst doing his job.
by bacci40 on
Oct 10, 2007 12:40 AM PDT
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Re: Change
Agreed that Joe should be out entirely, though.
by howtheyscored on
Oct 10, 2007 8:32 AM PDT
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Re: Change
im sorry, but if you really want to send a message about change, you clean house, not make minor moves and shuggle personnel.
i understood when they asked alou to stay in the org...the guy still has a good eye for talent, is a part of the giants family and is a very good, good will ambassador.
but what does lefevbre bring to the table?
as for upshaw....werent our overall steals up this year?
as for a replacement for lefevbre...if bonds gets no takers, i would love for him to come on board....i know that wont happen, but the man can teach.
by bacci40 on
Oct 10, 2007 10:48 AM PDT
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Re: Change
Anyway, I just don't agree with your basic conceit. Oh well.
by howtheyscored on
Oct 10, 2007 11:00 AM PDT
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Re: Change
How do you know he didn't help Lincecum when he struggled early this season?
How do you know he didn't help Cain when he struggled last season or help keep him sane when all was breaking loose around him.
How do you know he didn't help Zito straighten things out?
My point is that I really doubt you can say with authority that "he sure as heck isnt giving any good advice to either rags or the pen".
by Goofus on
Oct 10, 2007 5:16 PM PDT
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Re: Change
by milesntrane on
Oct 10, 2007 4:23 AM PDT
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Re: Change
by milesntrane on
Oct 10, 2007 4:26 AM PDT
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Re: Change
right after bonds gave him some tips, his avg and power numbers improved dramatically
by bacci40 on
Oct 10, 2007 10:50 AM PDT
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Re: Change
by zenbitz on
Oct 11, 2007 3:57 PM PDT
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Re: Change
by howtheyscored on
Oct 11, 2007 11:40 PM PDT
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Re: Change
by Lyle on
Oct 10, 2007 7:04 AM PDT
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Re: Change
"Sabean said he will consider in-house and outside candidates to fill the slots. Logical candidates for hitting coach include Jim Bowie, the Giants' Triple-A hitting coach; Padres minor-league hitting coordinator Tony Muser and onetime A's first baseman Mike Epstein, who is out of organized ball but long has had Bochy's ear on hitting."
by ResDog on
Oct 10, 2007 8:59 AM PDT
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Re: Change
(I forget where I read the quote, someone remind me or post a link if you recall reading the same thing).
by Van Smack on
Oct 10, 2007 1:29 PM PDT
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