Baseball America grades the 2007 draft
http://www.baseballamerica.com/online/draft/features/265091.html - link, have to subscribe to BA to read it. Here's what you need to know, aka Giants stuff.
Baseball America's 2007 Draft Report Cards overview
College Draft All Stars:
Andy D'alessio
Danny Otero
High School All Stars:
Nick Noonan
Giants ranked 4th best draft overall (!)
College players-best debut:
Wendell Fairley listed second, but there is a group of college players listed 1-5 above a second list with no seperate heading, and Fairley is in the second list. Not sure what that means. Also in the best debut category is high school and junior college draftees, but the Giants didn't have anyone in those categories.
Timmy Alderson is the closest to the majors among high school draftees, they say.
Not really news as we know Noonan and Alderson are great, and the lovefest for D'alessio continues. I like that Otero is getting some attention too.
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Comments
Re: Baseball America grades the 2007 draft
Still, nice to hear that we did have a good draft (though I'm sure a lot of that is due to the high number of picks we had.)
by jponry on Oct 25, 2007 12:06 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Baseball America grades the 2007 draft
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Oct 25, 2007 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Baseball America grades the 2007 draft
by Dan from NM on Oct 25, 2007 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Baseball America grades the 2007 draft
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Oct 26, 2007 9:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Nats --- WTF
Wow. I hope BA shares some of what they're having with us. The only really nice looking pick was Michael Burgess in the Supp Round. And Detwiler was one of the worst picks in the first round which cancels out any genius on the Burgess pick.
I'm not saying our draft was the best -- but it was certainly better than Washington's.
by orangeandblackattack on Oct 26, 2007 9:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: The Nats --- WTF
Other than there's probably some credit being extended to the Nats because Rizzo has a track record of knowing what he's doing with both the Dbacks and Rox.
by Roger on Oct 26, 2007 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: The Nats --- WTF
Granted the Nats were picking for need. But that's kind of a cardinal sin when it comes to the Baseball draft.
by orangeandblackattack on Oct 26, 2007 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: The Nats --- WTF
The need they should have picked for was just good pitching, not just a fast riser. Dumb pick by the Nats and I actually didn't like burgess all that much, though where they got him was a bit of a steal.
by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Oct 28, 2007 7:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Baseball America grades the 2007 draft
I guess BA is assuming that Alderson will stay a reliever? I think thats the only way you could project such a quick path to the majors for him.
by xanthan on Oct 25, 2007 12:07 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Baseball America grades the 2007 draft
Man, I hope the control is for real. Can you imagine a Giants' pitching prospect throwing strike after strike? Rapture....
by Grant on Oct 25, 2007 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Baseball America grades the 2007 draft
by jponry on Oct 25, 2007 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Baseball America grades the 2007 draft
I'm really excited about our new drafts. The minor league season next year might be more exciting than the major leagues.
by xanthan on Oct 25, 2007 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Baseball America grades the 2007 draft
by KCE on Oct 25, 2007 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
minor league more exciting than the majors
by Lyle on Oct 25, 2007 6:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Baseball America grades the 2007 draft
BA said he was closest out of all of the high school draftees -- not draftees in general. All HS draftees have a long ways to travel.
So, like, 2009 is what I'm expecting. After a September, 2008 call-up, of course.
by Grant on Oct 25, 2007 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Baseball America grades the 2007 draft
by xanthan on Oct 25, 2007 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Baseball America grades the 2007 draft
Alderson has a solid foundation but he's going to need some tweaking, like every high schooler but the pitching motion stuff could take a lot of experimentation.
by xanthan on Oct 25, 2007 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Baseball America grades the 2007 draft
I wonder why Alderson is the one who keeps getting pigeonholed as a future reliever, when Bumgarner is the one who everyone says only has one pitch.
by Evan on Oct 25, 2007 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Baseball America grades the 2007 draft
I think it's mostly because he pitched exclusively from the stretch in high school.
by xanthan on Oct 25, 2007 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stretch
by DrBGiantsfan on Oct 25, 2007 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Baseball America grades the 2007 draft
by Dan from NM on Oct 25, 2007 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Baseball America grades the 2007 draft
If his delivery out of the stretch is so odd, I wonder what it looks like from the windup . . .
by Anticon23 on Oct 25, 2007 5:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Baseball America grades the 2007 draft
by sharksrog on Oct 25, 2007 7:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Baseball America grades the 2007 draft
by EliminateMe on Oct 25, 2007 5:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Windup?
I've been wondering this and watching various pitchers. Some pitchers' windups are very muted and almost look like their pitching out of the stretch.
I asked Tom House about it and he said no power is generated from the windup; that it basically gets you to the same starting point (raised leg) where the power starts getting generated. He does most of his teaching from the stretch, where less moving parts mean less can go wrong, and advises pitching from the windup only if it feels more comfortable.
by Goofus on Oct 26, 2007 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Windup?
by Bhaakon on Oct 26, 2007 8:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Windup?
by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Oct 28, 2007 7:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Baseball America grades the 2007 draft
I don't subscribe to BA, but I'm curious to know where BA ranked the Tigers' draft. Detroit didn't pick until #26 as I recall, but they took what most believed to be the second-best pitcher in the draft, Rick Porcello. Rick, who appeared to me to have this year's version of what I'll call Tim Lincecum (very good) mechanics (although in truth, Rick's mechanics might actually be closer to Matt Cain's), dropped that far because of signabilty issues.
The Tigers paid $7 million to wrap Porcello up for three or four years, but if I don't miss my guess, they pulled off a coup. Of course, pitchers are usually health gambles, but for a commitment of $7 million the Tigers may have gotten close to a decade of control of a pitcher who might earn half a billion dollars before his career is over.
by sharksrog on Oct 25, 2007 7:20 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Baseball America grades the 2007 draft
by Dan from NM on Oct 25, 2007 7:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Baseball America grades the 2007 draft
My point was that the Giants had not one but TWO picks ahead of the Tigers at #26. I'm not sure if the Tigers had any extra picks or not, but they certainly didn't approach the Giants' six picks in the top 51. Yet the Tigers were ranked just ahead of the Giants -- primarly because they drafted Rick Porcello. The Giants passed on Rick not once, but twice.
Now, I'm hoping that BOTH Mad Bum and the Second Tim turn out to be better than Porcello. Certainly they signed for a lot less together than Rick did.
But I think the Tigers got a good deal with Porcello -- even at $7 million. And I think that given the Giants outlook for 2008 and the money they have to spend with several players coming off the dole, the Giants should have been a bit more visionary and been willing to spend the big bucks on a stud like Porcello, who would have been considered a steal at #22, just as he was considered an even bigger coup at #26.
by sharksrog on Oct 26, 2007 2:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Baseball America grades the 2007 draft
The team that BA gave the highest rated drafted seven 18 year old in their first 10 picks (albeit, they were a team with five picks in the top 70).
I'd like to have seen the reasoning behind some of these choices, though it's hard to argue too much with the the top four teams.
by BruteSentiment on Oct 25, 2007 7:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Baseball America grades the 2007 draft
4th sounds pretty good to me. I'm still not very excited about Mad Bum and Jackson Williams was clearly an overdraft.
by orangeandblackattack on Oct 26, 2007 8:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Baseball America grades the 2007 draft
By ridding themselves of Matt Morris at the trade deadline, the Giants saved nearly twice as much money as was paid to Rick Porcello by the Tigers.
by sharksrog on Oct 26, 2007 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Baseball America grades the 2007 draft
by boonitez on Oct 25, 2007 9:38 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Baseball America grades the 2007 draft
I suggested the Giants should have Porcello with pick #22 and the Texas outfielder Russell with their fifth or sixth picks (#43 and #51). Carlos Gomez of Baseball Analysts or Baseball Think Factory or Hardball Times or whomever he writes for agreed that if the Giants had done so, they would have essentially run away with first place overall.
Again, I'm hoping the picks the Giants actually made are even better than the ones I suggested. We'll know five or ten years down the road.
by sharksrog on Oct 26, 2007 2:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Baseball America grades the 2007 draft
by DrBGiantsfan on Oct 26, 2007 7:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Baseball America grades the 2007 draft
I'm hoping, of course, that BOTH make it -- and Wendell Fairley and maybe Nick Noonan too!
But my point is that instead of having what has been ranked anywhere from the best to fourth-best draft with their six picks in the top 51, they likely could have been a runaway pick as the consensus pick for best overall had they drafted Portello and the outfielder Russell.
True, they would have had to spend several million more, but would you rather they spend the extra money on potential superstars and stars, or on Barry Zito? My point is that it appears the Giants are thinking like a middle-of-the-pack team (spending huge bucks on a good but not great player) instead of thinking like a future World Champion by risking that money on young players who could become superstars or stars.
by sharksrog on Oct 26, 2007 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Opinion
The important thing to remember about these grades is they are just an opinion and doesn't really count for anything. The goal is to eventually look back on 2007 as a great draft which I see as a good possibilty.
by DrBGiantsfan on Oct 26, 2007 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Addendum
by DrBGiantsfan on Oct 26, 2007 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Addendum
by Grant on Oct 26, 2007 5:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Addendum
Actually, I would have been happier if we had nabbed a hitter instead of Bumgarner.
by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Oct 28, 2007 8:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Addendum
I have a Lincecum-like fascination with Alderson, so I'm probably biased. Funky delivery + otherworldly control = fascination.
by Grant on Oct 29, 2007 9:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Addendum
The success rate thing I agree with, but high school pitchers don't exactly fair too well either. And they get hurt.
I would have preferred Jason heyward to either, though there were a ton of people hatin' on him too.
by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Oct 29, 2007 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Addendum
by DrBGiantsfan on Oct 26, 2007 7:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Addendum
by Grant on Oct 26, 2007 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Addendum
by Goofus on Oct 26, 2007 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Addendum
by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Oct 28, 2007 8:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Baseball America grades the 2007 draft
by rxmeister on Oct 26, 2007 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Baseball America grades the 2007 draft
The Giants draft appears to be very good. I think they had a chance to make it their best draft EVER. It still could be, but I don't think their chances are nearly as good by going the way they went compared to the way I suggested.
I hope to be wrong.
by sharksrog on Oct 26, 2007 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Baseball America grades the 2007 draft
by rxmeister on Oct 27, 2007 7:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Baseball America grades the 2007 draft
by orangeandblackattack on Oct 27, 2007 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Baseball America grades the 2007 draft
(j/k, I wish I'd had a baseball comp for that joke, but I've been following the NFL draft a heck of a lot longer than I've been following the MLB draft. That said, I pretty much agree with your statement. There isobviously some veeeerrrry good reason why the kid doesn't suck f he's going to get that tretment)
by howtheyscored on Oct 27, 2007 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Baseball America grades the 2007 draft
by Grant on Oct 27, 2007 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Baseball America grades the 2007 draft
When I get into statistics, you mock me, and I doubt it will be any different when I say I like a guy's mechanics.
Will Rick turn out to be good? We'll need to wait a while to find out. He's only a high schooler. But his mechanics lead me to believe that he has a chance to be very good and also to stay healthy.
If I were basing my evaluation solely on statistics, it is hard to beat the K/BB ratios of both Mad Bum and Timmy Two.
Since Porcello is in the American League, I guess it would be a nice scenario if all THREE worked out well. I worry more about the health of Mad Bum and Timmy Two than about Porcello's though.
Mechanically, I really like both Fairley and Noonan. Their swings seem pretty darn sweet.
by sharksrog on Oct 27, 2007 5:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Baseball America grades the 2007 draft
by rxmeister on Oct 28, 2007 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Baseball America grades the 2007 draft
by Roger on Oct 28, 2007 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Baseball America grades the 2007 draft
Josh Beckett (at #2)
Josh Girdley
Bobby Bradley
Brett Myers
Ty Howington
Jason Stumm
Richard Stahl
Gerik Baxter
Beckett was the Porcello of that draft: everyone's choice as the best high-school pitcher, and demanding a huge contract to sign. I don't think the Marlins regret ponying up the money.
by Evan on Oct 28, 2007 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Baseball America grades the 2007 draft
by DrBGiantsfan on Oct 28, 2007 6:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Baseball America grades the 2007 draft
by rxmeister on Oct 29, 2007 7:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Baseball America grades the 2007 draft
Anyway, if somehow I got to choose, yes, I'd rather have Bumgarner and Alderson than just Porcello. But that was never a real choice -- rather, it was between (a) Porcello and Alderson, or (b) Bumgarner, Alderson, and an extra $5 million to spend elsewhere. Given that choice, I'd take (a). Or, in my dream first round, Heyward at #10, Porcello at #22, and Alderson (hopefully) at #29.
by Evan on Oct 29, 2007 9:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Baseball America grades the 2007 draft
by Roger on Oct 29, 2007 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Choice?
by DrBGiantsfan on Oct 29, 2007 9:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Choice?
True, the Giants may not have even budgeted enough money for Porcello, let alone the players who would have followed him. But I think not budgeting heavily for the draft is being penny-wise and pound-foolish.
Then again, the Giants have had great success with Sabean's drafts, so I guess they know what they're doing. :)
by sharksrog on Oct 30, 2007 12:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Baseball America grades the 2007 draft
...if that means anything to anyone here.
by Mark carry on on Oct 26, 2007 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Baseball America grades the 2007 draft
by oldjacket on Oct 26, 2007 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Baseball America grades the 2007 draft
by Goofus on Oct 26, 2007 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Baseball America grades the 2007 draft
by krazybalr on Oct 26, 2007 8:57 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Baseball America grades the 2007 draft
And that can be the difference being a contender or not, between being a true contender compared to a marginal one, or between being a contender and a future World Champion.
by sharksrog on Oct 26, 2007 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Baseball America grades the 2007 draft
So I'm willing to give the Giants a mulligan on Porcello. It could have left Alderson wanting 2.5 and Fairley 2.0 and then the whole draft is falling apart. Not to mention putting a high schooler on the 40 man.
However Jackson Williams was not a good pick. There was still much better talent on the board.
by orangeandblackattack on Oct 26, 2007 10:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Baseball America grades the 2007 draft
There was better talent available, sure, but I think labeling him as being a bad pick is wrong.
by Anticon23 on Oct 26, 2007 11:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Baseball America grades the 2007 draft
Would he have been? Probably, yes.
by Bhaakon on Oct 27, 2007 12:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Baseball America grades the 2007 draft
by Roger on Oct 27, 2007 9:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Baseball America grades the 2007 draft
by DrBGiantsfan on Oct 27, 2007 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Baseball America grades the 2007 draft
by Evan on Oct 27, 2007 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Baseball America grades the 2007 draft
Let's look at Porcello -- or Tim Lincecum or Phil Hughes or any of several other very fine young pitchers. Yes, $7.5 million is lot of money to pay for an unproven player. But if Rick realizes his potential, he could wind up making 50 to 100 times that much over a long career. By drafting Porcello, the Tigers lock up Porcello for something like nine years -- six of them at the major-league level.
During those six major-league years, they will perhaps pay Rick as much money as they would pay a veteran great pitcher in little more than a single season.
So if Porcello turns out to be great, the Tigers got a huge bargain -- especially if they can re-sign him without breaking the bank once he becomes a free agent. If he turns out to be good, they probably still haven't overpaid. If he turns out to be so-so, they've overpaid somewhat. And obviously if he turns out to be a stiff, they've wasted $7.5 million.
I personally think they took a darn good risk. Stars are what win championships. True, they can't do it alone, but it is darn hard to win a championship without at least a couple of them -- and preferably one or two superstars and three or four other stars.
If a team sees in Rick Porcello a good chance of stardom or even superstardom, I don't think $7.5 million is too much to risk.
Heck, Rick has a lot better chance of being a superstar pitcher than Barry Zito does, and his $7.5 million pales in comparison to the $126 million the Giants are paying Barry.
Rick is a far bigger risk than Barry, but he also has a much higher upside at this point. Porcello could become what Zito WAS. Barry is highly unlikely to ever regain that.
$126 million is 17 times $7.5 million. Did the Giants get 17 times as much potential value when they signed Zito as the Tigers got when they signed?
The Giants got a product that is much safer, they got a product that is more immediate. But did they truly get 17 times the value?
I didn't like the signing of Zito, and I don't like their not taking a risk on Porcello.
Perhaps the Giants will prove that by taking Alderson instead of Rick, they knew precisely what they were doing. I hope that is the case.
But I can almost assure you that the Tigers were quite happy when everyone before them passed on Porcello. Just as the Giants were no doubt delighted when nine teams ahead of San Francisco passed on Tim Lincecum.
IMO Brian Sabean overvalues mediocre and good players in comparison with how he values very good and great players. Good players help, and mediocre players are better than poor ones. But it is stars and superstars who usually win championships.
Those stars and superstars need a supporting cast, but they carry the show. A team made up of supporting cast members isn't going to carry the show very often.
I remember the Warriors of the mid 80's. I felt they had the best bench in the league. Unfortunately, much of it was starting, and the Warriors weren't good at all.
The Giants without Barry Bonds are a much more balanced offensive team. Last season they were a one-man show. This year they have great balance. The show is gone. The balance is excellent. Only the hitting talent is missing. Only.
by sharksrog on Oct 27, 2007 5:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Baseball America grades the 2007 draft
As it was, I would rather have Bumgarner, Alderson, Fairley, Noonan and Culberson than Porcello plus 5 college draftees like Jackson Williams.
by DrBGiantsfan on Oct 27, 2007 8:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Baseball America grades the 2007 draft
Another example of what you are saying is from a few drafts ago. Who made the better use of their bonus money, Arizona with Stephen Drew or San Diego with Matt Bush?
The difference for the Giants is I don't think the gap between Bumgarner or Alderson and Porcello is nearly as great as the difference between Drew and Bush.
by DrBGiantsfan on Oct 27, 2007 8:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Baseball America grades the 2007 draft
I say that if you want to be a champion and have limited resources for doing so, you need to find highly-productive ways to spend your money.
I'm saying that if Porcello turns out to be as good as I think he will, NOT to pay him $7.5 million would be wrong. If he becomes a great pitcher, that $7.5 million could become 1% or 2% of the money he makes over his full career.
And the $7.5 million gives the team paying it a chance to wrap up six years of Porcello's major league career. If Rick goes on to have a very productive 15-year career in the majors, that is 40% of his major-league career he would be playing for the Tigers -- at low salary rates.
I think the Giants had a wonderful opportunity to start thinking more creatively with the 2007 draft. I think they fared well in the draft. But with more creative thinking, I think it is possible they could have had one of the best drafts EVER.
Hey, maybe they still WILL (have had one of the best drafts ever in 2007). I'm all for it!
by sharksrog on Oct 30, 2007 12:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Baseball America grades the 2007 draft
by wilriv21 on Oct 26, 2007 5:44 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Baseball America grades the 2007 draft
I'll leave it at...I think this is a draft that will be viewed as underappreciated in four years time. And I it could be an awesome draft and the undisputed best in a year, but someone will always find a 'miss' that would've made it better.
Time for a little follow-up:
Not shockingly, D'Alessio got a lot of play in the Giants-only team report: Best Pro Debut and Best Late Round pick. D'Alessio also was named as Best Power Hitter, but they noted Fairley (who was the Best Athlete and Fastest Runner) has the potential to surpass him.
Noonan: Best Pure Hitter (Shocker).
Best Defensive Player: Jackson Williams and his 43% rate of catching basestealers, and mentions about his blocks, calling games and leadership of a pitching staff, with a mention to Charlie Culberson.
Bumgarner got 'Best Fastball but Alderson was also mentioned. Alderson got Best Secondary Pitch.
Dan Otero and Steve Edlefsen also got good mentions as late-round picks.
For 'The One Who Got Away' (better known as players who went unsigned), BA notes the Giants signed the first 29 players they picked, implying almost no one did. The player noted was Tyler Ladendorf, who had already turned down a six-figure deal from the Yankees.
by BruteSentiment on Oct 30, 2007 1:08 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

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