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Casey at the deadline

Assuming that Chad Santos isn't the answer, here's an attempt to break down the Sean Casey rumors. You will also note the games from the weekend will not be discussed:

Teams in contention:

Boston
Yankees
Toronto
Detroit
ChiSox
Minnesota
Oakland
Texas
Seattle
California
Mets
St. Louis
Cincinnati
Houston
Milwaukee
San Diego
Los Angeles
Giants
Colorado
Arizona

Teams who don't have a first baseman producing at an acceptable level right now:

California
Giants

Teams who might have an outfield hole, and have a first baseman with outfield experience, so trading for a first baseman would fill a lineup hole:

Oakland
Houston (though the hole is filled when Ensberg comes back from the D.L.)

That's it. The Pirates have two first basemen to deal, though Craig Wilson can field poorly at other positions too. Other teams will want Wilson off the bench or in the outfield, so there might be a bit more competition for his services. But it is most assuredly a buyer's market for first basemen. Looking at the list of suitors, I just don't see how Sean Casey isn't a Giant by August.

Pirates G.M.: I'd love to deal Casey, but we need him going forward.

Sabean: No, you don't.

Pirates G.M.: Yeah, he's a part of the rebuiliding plans.

Sabean: No, he isn't.

Pirates G.M.: Yep. I'll need Sanchez, Hennessey, and this Frandsen kid to start.

Sabean: click

Pirates G.M.: Yello? Yelllllo?

The Angels have two underperforming prospects in Kendry Morales and Casey Kotchman, and might be in the market for a rent-a-player. Kotchman has mono, which I struggled with personally for a heck of a long time, so there are no guarantees he'll be back. Oakland would be better served to find an outfielder to replace Jay Payton, rather than give anything of substance for the modest upgrade of Sean Casey. Houston just traded for Aubrey Huff, who will go to the outfield when Ensberg gets back.

The Giants and the Angels are the only two suitors, with the Angels optimistic that a young player still might step up.

two hours later

Sabean: So are you ready to stop jerking my chain?

Pirates G.M.: Hey, you're the one calling me an hour before the deadline. I hold the chips here. Hold on, I have another call.

covers the phone with his palm, and imitates the ringing of a phone

Pirates G.M.: Brrrrring! Brrrrrrrring! Hello? Well, well, well. Mr. Epstein, how nice to hear from you! Actually, Casey is still on the market. Funny you'd ask, as I was just about to deal him to San Francisco.

Sabean: If you really took another call on the same phone, I wouldn't be able to hear this.

Pirates G.M.: I'll tell you what, Theo, I'm going to have to get back to you. Sabean knows you're not really on the phone. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Right. Well, thanks for calling.

There is a twist, as Casey is from the Pittsburgh area and might want to stay with the Pirates. A new contract could be worked out between the two, should Casey stay. The Pirates might have some weird reason for keeping Casey as some sort of hometown draw. It worked out so well for the Giants and Tyler Walker.

In a sane world, however, the Pirates have absolutely no reason to hold on to Casey. He wouldn't be a part of the next contending team in Pittsburgh, he isn't exactly Mickey Mantle in terms of drawing power, and the Pirates still owe millions to Casey. Millions. As in, wouldn't they be better served tossing those millions to the next amateur player who slides down to the sixteenth round because of a strong commitment to a university? Or starting the first international scouting program in Paraguay? Or anything that doesn't involve holding on to a marketable commodity at the expense of a rebuilding team?

fifty-eight minutes later

Sabean: Merkin Valdez or Alfredo Simon. Pick one and I'll fax over the paperwork.

Pirates G.M.: Are you crazy?

covers the phone with his palm again

Pirates G.M.: Brrring! Brrrrring! Hello? Is this, uh, Mr., uh, Angels G.M.? Yes, Sean Casey is still available. Right. Right. What do you mean you aren't going to offer anything more than a career minor leaguer? You aren't even on the phone. I'm making this whole conver.... Right. Okay. I can see that. Well, if you change your mind, you know where... Hello? Yelllo?

If there is really a strong mutual interest between Casey and Pittsburgh, he could always pull the Sidney Ponson move; force a team to give up prospects for him, and then resign with the old team. It worked out so well for Baltimore. It's kind of a Jimmy Hart/Andy Kaufman move, but it isn't against the rules.

The Vogelsong karma was paid off tenfold with the Minnesota trade, so any sympathies along those lines are misplaced. The Giants are willing to pay the rest of the salary. They'd be fine with including Lance Niekro, I'd imagine, in addition to whatever else the Pirates would want. Casey isn't Carlos Beltran from 2004, so the Pirates shouldn't hold out for any of the top young pitchers in the Giants' organization. They have every reason to trade Casey at a discount, and the Giants have every reason to want a discounted Casey. The Angels might give chase, but they would be the only competition if they do.

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Re: Casey at the deadline
I would far far prefer Wilson, but I imagine the price will be prohibitive - Littlefield ain't the sharpest tool in the shed. And I'd love to deal Valdez while he has any semblance of prospect value left - offer him and Frandsen for Wilson, and see if they bite.

by Aadik on Jul 17, 2006 12:59 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

All for Casey the Giant
The Giants need another productive major league hitter in this lineup.  Sure Casey isn't going to hit many balls out of the park, but most lefties are in that boat at AT&T anyways, at least this one won't be expecting to play a ton of long ball.  I think his line drive, gap-to-gap approach is perfect for our home field.

Winn
Viz I
Casey
Bonds
Alou
Durham
Feliz
Greene/Notgardo

Funny how much more solid the lineup looks when you take out a damn near automatic out and replace it with a professional hitter.

"San Diego, which of course in German means a whale's vagina" - Ron Burgundy

by W8ingForATitle on Jul 17, 2006 1:04 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Casey at the deadline
You really should write a sitcom about a baseball general manager.

by Skaldheim on Jul 17, 2006 1:05 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Jimmy Hart? Andy Kaufman?
Please. Shenanigans that shady put me in mind of Jim Cornette, or even Ric Flair circa 1983.

by Salemicus on Jul 17, 2006 1:16 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Jimmy Hart? Andy Kaufman?
Oh man, Jim Cornette was hysterical.
Mighty Casey would have taken Felix Rodriguez deep.

by Stuttering John Tamargo on Jul 17, 2006 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Casey at the deadline
From today's rumor-wire mongers:

"The Pittsburgh Tribune-Review reported the Angels and Yankees both are very interested in infielder-outfielder Craig Wilson, but the Pirates' high price of a pitching prospect and a Major League-ready position player have held up a potential deal."

by Roger on Jul 17, 2006 1:21 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Casey at the deadline
I've read of Wilson's price several times now, and, while probably a smart bargaining move, it's ridiculous. If the Giants (or anyone else) had a "Major League-ready position player," they'd give him a first baseman's glove and have no use for Wilson.
"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Jul 17, 2006 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Casey at the deadline
Now the Santos move makes sense - they call him up to show he's "major league ready"...
"It's not an offensive move, but it might be." - Felipe Alou

by EliminateMe on Jul 17, 2006 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

heh
"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Jul 17, 2006 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I've never understood that...
Why would a player be in the minors if he's "major league ready"
I take it back, I do blame F.P. Santangelo and Greg Papa.

by WalrusMan on Jul 17, 2006 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I've never understood that...
"Why would a player be in the minors if he's "major league ready""

If he's blocked by a player at the major league level. Like Ryan Shealy in Colorado, who's blocked by Helton. Or, a better example, Ryan Howard two years ago, blocked by Thome.

You probably weren't aware of this possibility because the last time it happened with the Giants you hadn't been born yet. And neither had your parents.

"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f***ing amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK

by Josh from Hollywood on Jul 17, 2006 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hmmm...
...the last Giants prospect who was tearing up the minors so badly that it made us all think, "It's too bad we already have so-and-so playing his position." This should be a fun game to kill some time today.

Oh, no, wait. This is an awful game and it's depressing me horribly.

Wasn't McCovey blocked by Cepeda or vice versa? Christ.

"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Jul 17, 2006 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Hmmm...
If you really wanted to stretch it, you could say Charlie Hayes was blocked by Matt Williams in 1989, but I'm almost embarrassed to say that. Actually, no almost about it, I am embarrassed to say that.
"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f***ing amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK

by Josh from Hollywood on Jul 17, 2006 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Hmmm...
Closest I can come up with is George Foster. Though why Kenny Henderson was blocking him is anybody's guess.

by Roger on Jul 17, 2006 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Hmmm...
Does Pierzynski blocking Mauer count for anything?  The Giants helped unblock the fecal matter in that cloggage.
Today's Spanish lesson: Como se dice "Blown save?" "Armando Benitez?" "Correctamundo!"

by Goofus on Jul 17, 2006 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Hmmm...
Maybe Sabes was just confused... he was trying to ask for Mauer the whole time.

by Roger on Jul 17, 2006 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Hmmm...
Is there a language in which "Sabean" means "Colonic?"

by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 17, 2006 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Hmmm...
Did the team think he was a star in the making who was blocked?

Foster was traded for absolutely nothing.  I really don't think the team thought he was ever going to amount to anything, or they would have gotten something, anything in return.

Vern Geishert and Frank Duffy?  They weren't even prospects!

by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 17, 2006 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Hmmm...
Yeah they knew Foster would be a star.  The guy who was really blocking him was the young Dave Kingman who they figured did everything Foster did just as well.  The reason that trade was made was because they were concerned about Chris Speier's back which was in a constant state of going out.  They thought the lack of a decent backup SS in case of a prolonged absence by Speier could end up the difference between making the playoffs and not.  In their defense, they won the division on the final day of the season and Frank Duffy ended up playing in 2 or 3 all star games (sadly not for us), so the thinking wasn't all wrong.  It just looked really bad really quickly down the road.

by Roger on Jul 17, 2006 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Hmmm...
Thanks Roger.

Although I think if Duffy played in any All-Star Games, it must have been in AAA.  Even by the standards of the 70s, he was atrocious.  Even by the standards of the Indians in the 70s, he was atrocious.  

by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 17, 2006 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Hmmm...
Also, what kills me is that they still had a sweet pipeline of talent in the early 70s.  All around the same time, they had Bobby Bonds, Kingman, Ken Henderson, Garry Maddox, Gary Matthews, and George Foster (not to mention Jack Clark a few years later, and he didn't play 1B until he went to the Cardinals in 1985).

And what did they get for that talent?

Ken Henderson AND Steve Stone were sent to the White Sox for Tom Bradley after the 1972 season.  Bradley went from mediocre to terrible.

Dave Kingman was simply sold to the Mets before the 1975 season.

Sarge was let go to free agency after the 1976 season after putting up nothing but quality numbers.

Bobby Bonds was traded for Bobby Murcer after the 1974 season.  Murcer was actually good, but not as good as Bonds (although everyone seemed to underrate Bonds in those days).  Murcer stayed for a couple years and was traded for Bill Madlock (with some filler in the deal on both sides).  That one wasn't that bad.

Garry Maddox was traded early in the 1975 season for Willie Montanez.  Montanez was actually good, too, and was traded a couple years later for Darrell Evans (again, filler for both sides too).  That one was a pretty good trade.

But!  Foster could have moved to 1B.  Bonds, Maddox, and Matthews would have been the best defensive outfield in baseball (actually, in 1973 it probably was), and they could hit!  The Giants squandered it.

Sad.  

by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 17, 2006 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Hmmm...
Thanks for all the detailed background, guys. I was seven in 1977, so I never knew all of these details. My thoughts on the matter were pretty much, "The Giants used to have that guy who just hit 52 home runs? Wahhhhhhh!"
"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Jul 17, 2006 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Hmmm...
I was 3 in 1977.  I had to look all of this stuff up or glean the information from those in the know.

I had pretty much the same thoughts about Foster being a former Giant though, except that I got the information later.  Remember how legendary Foster was from 1977 until Cecil Fielder hit 51 in 1990?

Wow!  He had FIFTY-TWO homers!  Unbelievable!  Ooooooo!

Now most people probably have no idea who George Foster is.

by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 17, 2006 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Foster...
...Austrailian for "beer".
Today's Spanish lesson: Como se dice "Blown save?" "Armando Benitez?" "Correctamundo!"

by Goofus on Jul 17, 2006 5:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Hmmm...
Frank Duffy was never an All-Star.  

by tobias on Jul 17, 2006 9:04 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Hmmm...
Not true, he was Cleveland's All Star rep two years in a row around 74/75 (before Buddy Bell got good enough to be Clevelands de rigeur).  The problem with playing Foster at 1B was we had McCovey there AND they were trying to figure out what to do with Kingman in 71.  Of course, then the Horace Stoneham firesale began and there nobody left at all.  The outfield of Bonds/Matthews/Maddox would have been great had they made any attempt to keep them together instead of scattering the whole team.

by Roger on Jul 18, 2006 7:33 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Hmmm...
1972... Gaylord Perry
1973... Buddy Bell
1974... Gaylord Perry, Frank Robinson and George Hendrick
1975... George Hendrick
1976... Dave La Roche
1977... Dave La Roche, Jim Kern and Dennis Eckersley

I see no evidence anywhere that Frank Duffy was ever an All Star.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/d/duffyfr01.shtml

Forget Bonds--indict Felipe.

by tobias on Jul 18, 2006 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Hmmm...
Hmmm, I'm gonna have to look into this.  The bile rising to my tongue as he tipped his cap I will never forget!  There must be a last minute injury replacement slipping through the cracks. Super research time!

by Roger on Jul 18, 2006 1:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Hmmm...
Desi Wilson was blocked by Mark Carreon.  Of course, Wilson was so crappy that he could be blocked by Mark Carreon...

Actually, it's fairly rare to see a great player blocked.  Think of Miguel Cabrera being moved to the OF, Pujols going between 3B, LF, and 1B, or even Bonds going to LF because of Van Slyke (actually, Van Slyke came the year after Bonds came up, but the switch was easy enough).

Usually the guys that are blocked are first basemen, especially lefty throwers, who are too immobile to play the OF, and especially in the NL because there is no DH.  I suppose it happens with catchers too, but the frequency of great, can't miss, strong bat catchers being developed is pretty rare.

With McCovey and Cepeda, both were with the big club, but there was a lack of playing time because Cepeda, who was most definitely the better OF, didn't want to play LF and was quite vocal about staying at 1B.  McCovey was the better hitter, but he was an absolutely terrible OF.

Alvin Dark seemed to go along with whatever Cepeda said because McCovey kept quiet and Cepeda complained all the time, so McCovey, who was ROY at age 21 in 1959 (Cepeda was ROY in 1958 at 20), didn't become the regular starter until 1963 at age 25.  Even in 1963, McCovey was the starter in LF, not 1B, and this continued in 1964 even though Stretch was injured a lot that year.

Finally, in 1965, when McCovey was 27, Cepeda was injured all year and McCovey became the regular 1B.  Cepeda was traded very early the following season.  Unfortunately, he was traded for Ray Sadecki, which was generally considered the worst trade in Giants history until a certain ill-tempered catcher came over from the Twins...

Anyway, McCovey lost, I would say conservatively, a good 40 HR and 750 AB by not starting early in his career.  McCovey was the better player, but Cepeda was louder and had a better batting average, and he insisted on playing first even though the team would have been far better served by having him play OF.

The trade was considered an unmitigated disaster, but in those days, the Giants had farm system talent coming out of their ears.  Compared to today, it is absolutely crazy to think about.  And the talent were all fine-hitting position players (except for Juan Marichal and Gaylord Perry).  Even with the player development in full swing, though, the Giants insisted on having the worst hitting SS and 2B they could find.  Hal Lanier, Tito Fuentes, Dick Schofield, Jose Pagan:  these guys made Neifi and VizII look like Bon.. Burk.. ok JT Snow.  Let's not get too carried away.

This wasn't the first trade the Giants made to get some pitching, either.  Flippy himself was traded after 1963 for a few players, the centerpiece being Bob Shaw, who actually had a great season in 1965, but that was about it.

Cepeda seems like a very cheery "Beisbol berry berry good to me - have a Cha Cha bowl!" kind of guy now, but he was something of a big whining complainer back then.  If anyone is wondering why McCovey is so beloved, even more than Mays back in the day, it might have something to do with him having the hitting skill (ok almost) of Bonds and the cheerful, polite personality of JT Snow.

by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 17, 2006 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Hmmm...
Cepeda was also the all-time King of the meaningless 9th inning HR. Nobody could hit meaningless homers like Orlando.

You're right, really great hitters never actually get blocked (as the Phils proved with Howard, shipping out a future member of the 500 Homer club to make room for him).  The Giants have stuck McCovey nad Jim Ray Hart in the OF, and put Dave Kingman at 3B to get them into lineups.  If the bat will play they'll find a place for the glove.

by Roger on Jul 17, 2006 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Hmmm...
That very interesting about Cepeda, I never knew that. It really makes me wonder why his number is retired and he is so well-treated by the oranization, a la Mays, McCovey, Marichal. Then again, he doesn't have a statue, just a food stand.

As for the blocked topic, you're right about players being moved. Todd Helton played more OF than 1B his first call-up to the team in '97 because he was blocked by the Big Cat. When he showed he could hit, the Rockies chose not to re-sign Galarraga. There are tons of examples of that.

I do think the Pirates might have believed Bonds was a LF from the start though. He didn't have great arm, and he played in LF in college (though he was "blocked" from CF by future MLB CF Oddibe McDowell). In fact, Bonds was blocked from CF all through the early part of career -- McDowell, Van Slyke, Darren Lewis. I wonder whether Bonds played CF coming up in the minors or LF.

"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f***ing amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK

by Josh from Hollywood on Jul 17, 2006 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Hmmm...
The Bonds in the minors question is a good one.  I know he played all CF his first year in the majors, but I don't have fielding information for his minors career.

As for Cepeda and his current popularity:  I don't know how well-known the complaints about position and playing time were back then.  It may be that the fans just didn't hear about such things from the reporters and broadcasters (maybe Roger knows?).

But it is even more amazing when you consider that in the mid-70s Cepeda was arrested at San Juan Airport while trying to pick up 150 pounds of weed.  That put him in prison for almost a year and kept him out of the HOF for 20 years.  I would imagine that the average Giants fan would be far less likely to denigrate him for that than the fans of most teams, but it was a pretty big deal at the time.

Back then Cepeda was dealing in a whole different kind of Cha Cha Bowl.

by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 17, 2006 5:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The weed I knew about.
Not only was that arrest not held against him, but until he got into the HOF, a lot of people argued loud and long on his behalf in the Bay Area that the drug stigma was what was keeping him out unfairly.
"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f***ing amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK

by Josh from Hollywood on Jul 17, 2006 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Hmmm...
Nice post, thought I would throw out Mark McGwire, 3B, because the A's thought some other schlub (can't remember his name, Rob something?) was the better 1B, but when he Phillsbury Flopped, McGwire was returned to 1B and the rest of his career.
Go Giants: Winn It All with Feliz

by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Jul 19, 2006 7:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Hmmm...
That's easy. Will Clark being blocked by Mike Aldrete and Harry Spilman at the beginning of 1987...

by Josh from The New Giant Thrill on Jul 17, 2006 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Hmmm...
That wasn't much of a block...more like a speed bump.
"It's not an offensive move, but it might be." - Felipe Alou

by EliminateMe on Jul 17, 2006 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Hmmm...
I'll go ahead and look dumb, and ask: I assume that's sarcasm?  Clark came to the majors before Aldrete and was the starting 1B most of '86 (plus he was only in the minors for 3 months), hard to work up a good blockage in that amount of time).

by Roger on Jul 17, 2006 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Hmmm...
Yeah, I was kidding, but I'm the one who looks dumb for putting the wrong year! It was 1986, and during that year before Will got going 1B duties were split between Aldrete, Spilman, and even (for one game) Bob Melvin.

by Josh from The New Giant Thrill on Jul 17, 2006 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Hmmm...
I miss me some sweet pinch-hittin' Spilman.

by dangjackson on Jul 17, 2006 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Hmmm...
Clark started the season with the Giants.  His first AB ever HR against Nolan Ryan was on opening day that year.  He wasn't in the minors that year until July, I believe, and he only had 20 AB for Phoenix.

I can't remember exactly, but I am pretty sure that he was injured in early June and didn't go to Phoenix until he had a rehab assignment in late July.  He was back with the big club at the end of July and pinch-hit for a week or so.  Although he wasn't hitting that well when he left the big club, I am pretty sure that the absence wasn't because he needed more seasoning, or he would have had more ABs with Phoenix.

Does anyone remember the injury?

by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 17, 2006 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Hmmm...
Yeah, it was a big bummer, he was going pretty good then I recall him doing a number to his wrist somehow and being out for a while.  The minors was his injury rehab after recovering.

I'll leave it to the next person to describe exactly what he had...

Go Giants: Winn It All with Feliz

by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Jul 19, 2006 7:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Hmmm...
"I assume that's sarcasm?"

On this site?

"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f***ing amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK

by Josh from Hollywood on Jul 17, 2006 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Hmmm...
Sarcasm is illegal at McC, sir, and I never slice.
Today's Spanish lesson: Como se dice "Blown save?" "Armando Benitez?" "Correctamundo!"

by Goofus on Jul 17, 2006 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Hmmm...
Huh?  Will Clark had already been made the starting 1B in 1986.  Remember "You Gotta Like These Kids?"

Spilman was brought over to be a pinch hitter.  Aldrete was always going to be an OF.  He only played 37 games at 1B in 1986.  The Giants absolutely knew he would be the starter, and he did play 102 games at 1B in 1986.

No one was going to block the Thrill.  And after 1985, there was no one to block him anyway.  David Green?  Broken down Dan Driessen?

by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 17, 2006 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry fellas...
Whoops.  I meant "Aldrete was always going to be an OF.  He only played 37 games at 1B in 1986.  The Giants absolutely knew Will Clark would be the starter, and Clark played 102 games at 1B in 1986."

by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 17, 2006 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Hmmm...
Um, I think you mean Brokeback Dan Driessen.  Hey hey hey.

by dangjackson on Jul 17, 2006 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I see why if he's in your organization...
That would be the case, but if he's major league ready then he'd be able to be traded for another major league player to fill a hole at the major league level.  Especially if you've got a guy like Helton, he's not going to be a guy who drops off and you need to be ready to replace him.
I take it back, I do blame F.P. Santangelo and Greg Papa.

by WalrusMan on Jul 17, 2006 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Casey at the deadline
Too logical!  And besides, we need our first baseman to flash some leather.  Is Mark Grace available?

by zenbitz on Jul 17, 2006 1:33 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Grey Boxes = Comedy Gold (This is not a recording)
My favorite line:

"Pirates G.M.: Brrring! Brrrrring! Hello? Is this, uh, Mr., uh, Angels G.M.?"

Oh yeah, and I agree with the whole baseball analysis part, too.

"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f***ing amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK

by Josh from Hollywood on Jul 17, 2006 1:39 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

The Vogelsong Karma
was my favorite Robert Ludlum novel.

by Evan on Jul 17, 2006 1:55 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Casey at the deadline
Casey vs. righties:
2006 : .305/.411/.381/.792
2005 : .298/.361/.419/.780

Sweeney vs. righties:
2006 : .301/.365/.516/.881
2005 : .303/.402/.493/.895

Casey on the road:
2006 : .341/.433/.489/.922
2005 : .330/.389/.451/.840

Sweeney on the road:
2006 : .310/.410/.607/1.017
2005 : .305/.401/.500/.901

I can't help but think that simply removing Niekro's at-bats from the equation is going to help the offense as much as a trade for Casey would. Sweeney is helpless against lefties (and Casey surprisingly deadly), but that hole could be filled cheaply with an Eduardo Perez-ish journeyman. Besides, Santos is at 1.000/1.000/1.000/2.000 vs. lefties in his career.

"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Jul 17, 2006 2:16 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Casey at the deadline
If Sweeney is tearing up RHP like this then forget Sean Casey.  And there shouldn't be a game with a RHSP that Sweeney isn't starting.  

by orangeandblackattack on Jul 17, 2006 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Casey at the deadline
That absolutely killed me to see Niekro starting against righties.  Just brutal.

Plus, Eduardo Perez would have been a great pickup, he was available, and the Indians were ready to sell because they were so far out of it.

The Mariners already traded for Perez.

Craig Wilson would be a very good fit.  I don't know if Sabean wants to play games with Littlefield, though.  He seems to want an awful lot for a guy that they have been unwilling to make a regular starter.  On a brutal team.

by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 17, 2006 3:59 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Casey at the deadline
Go get Julio Franco. Sabean's solution is age over beauty.

by lunaticfringe1 on Jul 17, 2006 2:38 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Casey at the deadline
And why hasn't Linden learned how to play 1st base yet?!

by lunaticfringe1 on Jul 17, 2006 2:39 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Casey at the deadline
This is a freaking genius question.

by dangjackson on Jul 17, 2006 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Casey at the deadline
He was blocked in Fresno by Chad Santos.
"It's not an offensive move, but it might be." - Felipe Alou

by EliminateMe on Jul 17, 2006 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Grant's impact
"Kotchman has mono, which I struggled with personally for a heck of a long time, so there are no guarantees he'll be back."

Apparantly there are no guarantees when Kotchman will be back because Grant personally struggled with mono for a heck of a long time.

Grant Brisbee, leaving his mark on the game.

Today's Spanish lesson: Como se dice "Blown save?" "Armando Benitez?" "Correctamundo!"

by Goofus on Jul 17, 2006 2:52 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Grant's impact
Any chance you got mono from Mike Dunleavy?

by dangjackson on Jul 17, 2006 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Grant's impact
Are trying to insinuate that Grant gave Kasey Kotchman mono?
"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f***ing amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK

by Josh from Hollywood on Jul 17, 2006 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Grant's impact
You know, I thought I snipped that part out. Guilty of a WUI, am I.

by Grant on Jul 17, 2006 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Grant's impact
What's a "WUI"?
Today's Spanish lesson: Como se dice "Blown save?" "Armando Benitez?" "Correctamundo!"

by Goofus on Jul 17, 2006 5:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Grant's impact
Writing under the influence. I did the writing on a Saturday night at, like, 2:00 because the idea struck me.

The Pulitzer committee shant hear of that story, however....

by Grant on Jul 17, 2006 5:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Casey at the deadline
What't the asking price of Victor Martinez these days now that he's a first baseman?

by lunaticfringe1 on Jul 17, 2006 2:55 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Casey at the deadline
It won't happen.  He is signed through 2009 for cheeeaaap (07:$3M, 08:$4.25M, 09:$5.7M).  Even his option for 2010 is only $7m.

I think he only plays 1B when Broussard sits against LHP, right?

by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 17, 2006 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Casey at the deadline
What happened to Finley at 1B?  Now that Alou's back, isn't that an option?
Today's Spanish lesson: Como se dice "Blown save?" "Armando Benitez?" "Correctamundo!"

by Goofus on Jul 17, 2006 2:58 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Casey at the deadline
We're looking for improved production, right?  BTW, the Washington Post this morning included this line: "Niekro is batting .249 with four homers and 29 RBI, but is in an 8 for 45 slump." I just loved the use of BUT in that line.

by Roger on Jul 17, 2006 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

"....but is in an 8 for 45 slump."
In his case, its an 8 for 45 streak.
He blames Tomko and I blame Magowan, Alou, Morris, Benitez, El Dopo and a player to be named sooner rather than later--Lance Tool Niekro

by E Ticket on Jul 17, 2006 5:57 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you were going to do that
then why not just play Sweeney there?

by Nick Schulte on Jul 17, 2006 3:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Casey at the deadline
I think Felipe just said that Finley was not an option at 1B.  He also said Moises was not an option at 1B.

by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 17, 2006 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Casey at the deadline
Cream of wheat...

by lunaticfringe1 on Jul 17, 2006 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nice
Great post. A little research makes Grant deadly, and the fictitious conversations don't hurt.

I didn't realize there are so few teams in position to want Casey. If he's cheap, great. If not, we've still got Mark Sweeney and the Pirates over played their hand.

by Dan from NM on Jul 17, 2006 4:48 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Pirates over played their hand.
There are many reasons the Pirates have been horrible for many years.  This is one of them.  They are run by the same folks who think 59 Edsels are classics.
He blames Tomko and I blame Magowan, Alou, Morris, Benitez, El Dopo and a player to be named sooner rather than later--Lance Tool Niekro

by E Ticket on Jul 17, 2006 6:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Pirates over played their hand.
Or a 58 Buick Roadmaster.  Mmmmmm chrome!

by Lipssan1 on Jul 17, 2006 6:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rocks falling apart
in the bottom of the 8th.  Gotta love Ray King!

by Lipssan1 on Jul 17, 2006 6:42 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Casey at the deadline
Casey is a singles-hitting .280-.310 hitter with NO pop. That we would even consider acquiring him is a reflection of how far this franchise has fallen.

It's time to be a seller, not a buyer -- though Magowan and Sabean don't have the cojones to do anything about it. The Giants are a fundamental nightmare (how can you try to score on a fly ball with Bonds up next!) with a mediocre present and no future. The worst thing that could have happened this year has happened -- the NL West is awful, so the Giants are still in the race. What we needed was for a team to break the race open early and stay there. Too bad -- we're going to (stink) for years.

by drdon on Jul 17, 2006 10:37 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Casey at the deadline
Get your dawber up, Humm Baby!

I disagree.  With a future starting rotation of (take your pick) Cain, Lowry, Lincecum, Sanchez, Hennessey, or maybe someone among Joaquin, Martis, Griffin, Pereira, etc., our rotation should be good for a long time, plus Accardo, Wilson, Correia, Valdez, plus others filling the bullpen, that should be good for a long time as well, with replacement pitcher parts coming out of ears should anyone falters.  

So our pitching staff is set for the foreseeable future, we have a pitcher's park (of sorts), we have a big budget that we can then use to get the position players we lack (or trade for big money players other teams want to get rid of for lesser prospects), and a crummy NL West, I think we should be competitive for a long time going forward.

Go Giants: Winn It All with Feliz

by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Jul 19, 2006 7:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

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