Giants Pursuing Craig Wilson, Sean Casey

by GiantJim on Jul 15, 2006 9:35 AM PDT

Henry Schulman of the Chronicle:

"The Giants still like Pirates first baseman Sean Casey but also are pursuing teammate Craig Wilson, a right-handed first baseman and outfielder who would be easier to acquire."

Wilson is a more sensible target. His contract is up and is about 40% of Casey's annual deal. Per AB, Wilson has actually been better than Casey throuhout his career, but because he has been a part time player, can be had for much less.

This season he is out-hitting Casey in more ABs.

Niekro and one of their young pitchers(other than Cain)should do it. Sweeney then reverts to his productive role as bench LHB /occasional starter.

On Sabean's radio show on Thursday, he said replacing Niekro was his number one priority. Do it sooner than later, man, because our mediocre offense ain't helping.

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

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Re: Giants Pursuing Craig Wilson, Sean Casey

Could we throw in VizII to seal the deal?

Hey...wait a second...Are you throwing at my head?

by Ghost11 on Jul 15, 2006 9:47 AM PDT reply actions

Re: Giants Pursuing Craig Wilson, Sean Casey

Can I rant for the 300th time about how he could have picked up Choi/Pena for free to do this ?

by Aadik on Jul 15, 2006 9:47 AM PDT reply actions

Re: Giants Pursuing Craig Wilson, Sean Casey

No.

Pena

Choi

In March, I was right behind you. Today, I pretend like I always thought your idea was stupid.

by Grant Brisbee on Jul 15, 2006 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: Giants Pursuing Craig Wilson, Sean Casey

I would be happy with either player, but I don't want to lose either Sanchez or Accardo (maybe Brian Wilson) in a trade for Craig Wilson. Way to much for a "rent-a-player" of his quality. While he would be helpful, he isn't the big bat that is needed. Sabean needs to think along the lines of the Fred McGriff trade Atlanta made in '93 (Andruw Jones, please.) I'd be willing to bet Colletti is looking for a major deal.

yob

by Sayhey on Jul 15, 2006 9:51 AM PDT reply actions

Re: Giants Pursuing Craig Wilson, Sean Casey

Carlos Lee to play 1b.

FIRE FLIPPY NOW!

by nostocksjustbonds on Jul 15, 2006 5:12 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Giants Pursuing Craig Wilson, Sean Casey

ned colletti can suck it

"Baseball is life, the rest is just details."

by nick @ McCovey Chronicles on Jul 15, 2006 7:18 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Giants Pursuing Craig Wilson, Sean Casey

Wilson has 78 SO in 231 ABs

Hey...wait a second...Are you throwing at my head?

by Ghost11 on Jul 15, 2006 9:52 AM PDT reply actions

Strikeouts

Defending the Earth against the GIDP since the late 1800's

You want optimism? My glass is half-full of emptiness.

by Daniel on Jul 15, 2006 10:56 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Giants Pursuing Craig Wilson, Sean Casey

Casey is by far the better hitter in terms of BA with a career avg of .305 vs .267 for Wilson. But Casey's power numbers have fallen off a cliff. And as a LH'er, Casey's power numbers aren't likely to improve in SF. For his career, Casey has 1 HR for every 35 ABs (and much worse in recent years), while Wilson is 1 HR for every 19 AB.

Wilson is not exactly the second coming, but he sure is consistent with BA's of .264, .262, .264, .264, .268 in his last five years. Pretty nice OBP of .361 over the past five years while Casey's is .371. By way of contrast, Niekro's career OBP is .291 and Feliz is .293. Wilson strikes out a great deal more than Casey.

Obviously, either Casey or Wilson would be a significant improvement over the Sweeney/Niekro platoon. Since Wilson should come much cheaper, has more power, is RH'ed, has a OBP not much different than Casey, I think he's the better option for a rental. Plus he's only 29. If he plays well, he might be the answer for 2007 as well. A guy who can consistently hit 20+ HR, 75 RBI, .270 BA is an improvement over just about anybody the Giants have had at 1B in many years. A LH/RH platoon of Wilson/Sweeney looks enticing.

by leewhee on Jul 15, 2006 9:57 AM PDT reply actions

I'd rather have Casey than Wilson

Casey's a much more patient hitter, who may lack power but nevertheless gets on base at a very good rate. Statements like "This season [Wilson] is out-hitting Casey in more ABs" mystify me. Casey is outhitting Wilson, at least according to metrics like EQA. And I think Casey would be helped, not hindered, by Mays Field. He's a line drive hitter, not a slugger.

Casey is also hugely overpaid (but a FA at the end of the season) so should be cheaper in terms of prospects, while not adding any long term cost. Casey would also likely give better "sandwich" picks when he left as a free agent. And that's without even getting into the question of fielding, where Casey owns Wilson. Wilson's ability to play the outfield has no real value to the Giants - we want a guy to play first every day.

by Salemicus on Jul 15, 2006 10:28 AM PDT reply actions

Re: I'd rather have Casey than Wilson

Your ideas intrigue me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

That was exactly what I've felt about the two for a month, but haven't been able to put my finger on.

by Grant Brisbee on Jul 15, 2006 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: I'd rather have Casey than Wilson

And for some reason he sees the ball real well here. He fits this park, and he fits into this lineup better than Pottsburg's. Casey is a much better acquistion.

Actually, a scarecrow with no arms is an improvement over Niekro.

Niekro is a complete tool who had no business signing a professional contract. Guys with totally spastic swings like his that are successful are 1 in a million shots (Willie McGee, Glenallen Hill) Throw in his injuries, and he's just a waste of a perfectly good game jersey. His daddy should have taught him a knuckleball, because the old man proved the addage when it comes to pitchers hitting. Its hard to do, and they can't do it.

In any event, it appears Niekro will go the way of Nixon--we won't have him to kick around anymore. Hope he has a nice career in the Golden League with Jose Canseco

He blames Tomko and I blame Magowan, Alou, Morris, Benitez, El Dopo and a player to be named sooner rather than later--Lance Tool Niekro

by E Ticket on Jul 15, 2006 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: I'd rather have Casey than Wilson

Actually, Niekro did learn the knuckler from his dad, I assume it's insurance for when he hits his 30's and he still hasn't made it yet.

Go Giants: Winn It All with Feliz

by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Jul 17, 2006 4:27 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: I'd rather have Casey than Wilson

No doubt Casey's more patient, but that comes with a price. He strikes out less, but hits into far more GIDPs than Wilson.

Over the past few years, Casey actually hits LH'ers better than RH'ers: .321 vs .303. But Wilson's numbers against RH'ers aren't that bad: .257 vs .284.

Both players have about the same RBI/AB numbers.

One of the more interesting stats about Casey over the past few years: he has hit significantly better on the road vs. home. He's hitting .341 on the road and only .278 at home. And he hits .351 in the day vs .289 at night.

So that's a point in Casey's favor. Not only does he hit better on the road, he particularly hits well in SF. And the Giants play a lot of home day games. So maybe he'll win the batting title with the Giants.

Still don't like a 1B who projects to hit 5-10 HRs a year, especially with a team with weak power numbers that stands to lose its top 4 HR guys in the offseason.

by leewhee on Jul 15, 2006 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: I'd rather have Casey than Wilson

Something else that is worth mentioning is that Casey is supposed to be a great clubhouse guy. I don't normally pay too much attention to stuff like that but I've heard it so many times with Casey.

by SF Pete on Jul 15, 2006 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions

I'd rather have Wilson than Casey

Wilson is better this year, better the last three years before, more versatile (C/1B/OF vs. straight 1B), cheaper, easier to acquire (less competition for his services), easier to re-sign, younger, and c'mon, he's craig wilson. Dude's tight. I'd much rather have him.

Course, either one of them... and about half a dozen guys in most teams' farm systems... would be an improvement over Niekro, who won't be nearly enough to trade straight up for either Craig or Case. Or a bag of used baseballs...

"Baseball is life, the rest is just details."

by nick @ McCovey Chronicles on Jul 15, 2006 7:25 PM PDT up reply actions

I think that summarizes things nicely for me

Thanks.

You want optimism? My glass is half-full of emptiness.

by Daniel on Jul 15, 2006 10:51 PM PDT up reply actions

My Bad

regarding Wilson "out-hitting Casey in more ABs". Last I had looked, Wilson had a higher OPS, but as of now, they are about even at .830. Wilson has 60 more AB this season.

For their careers Wilson has an OPS+ of 120 (very good, eg: Moises Alou has a 128) and Casey has a 112. But GMs tend to be more impressed with old school numbers, BA and RBIs, so Casey would likely fetch a higher price despite his larger salary. Also, Wilson seems like the better longer term answer at 1B, because of salary and age.

Again, he is also a better fit with Sweeney, who is a similar-type of hitter to Casey(LHB/high OBP)and provides a useful role off the bench for little money. The Giants already have Bonds and three switch hitters in their line-up. They need another RH power bat, which Niekro was supposed to provide.

The "Niekro and a young pitcher" was just me speculating, but I agree with Lefty, that the Giants will need at least that, because of the demand from the other potential buyers for Casey/Wilson. Besides Cain, I would include Sanchez as an untouchable. I have no problem giving up anybody else.

by GiantJim on Jul 16, 2006 8:56 AM PDT up reply actions

I like the young power arms

If there's a way to do Niekro/Hennessey for Wilson, maybe with a Merkin Valdez throw-in, I'd be all for it.

You want optimism? My glass is half-full of emptiness.

by Daniel on Jul 16, 2006 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Giants Pursuing Craig Wilson, Sean Casey

The deal sounds like too much for a player at the end of the year is a FA. Niekro straight up is fine.The Pirates get a player with several years on a contract and still may turn it around, but, in exchange,the Pirates only lose a player that will be gone at the end of the year anyway for a last place team. Niekro and a pitcher seems like too much. That said I would take Wilson over Casey.

Keeping a close eye on the Giants AAA players

by Andy In Fresno on Jul 15, 2006 11:12 AM PDT reply actions

Re: Giants Pursuing Craig Wilson, Sean Casey

In many ways, Wilson is a RH'ed version of Sweeney. Only he can hit RH'ers better than Sweeney hits LH'ers. He can play OF and 1B. Has a lot more power. And is six years younger.

I say sign them both. Wilson has played as much outfield as 1B in recent years. Put Wilson in LF or RF and have him back up Casey at 1B. He can also serve as the 3rd string catcher. Or second-string, for that matter.

by leewhee on Jul 15, 2006 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: Giants Pursuing Craig Wilson, Sean Casey

Which means Sabean will give them Sanchez and Accardo with Niekro.

by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 15, 2006 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: Giants Pursuing Craig Wilson, Sean Casey

Remember that Casey's "true" value is distorted by how many teams are in the running for him. The Giants may offer Niekro and a young pitcher, but three other teams may force them to bid higher. Nothing happens in a vacuum.

Me gustan tomar mis copas / Aguardiente es lo mejor / También la tequila blanca / Con su sal le da sabor

by leftymalo on Jul 15, 2006 5:46 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Giants Pursuing Craig Wilson, Sean Casey

I would hope...hope against hope...that Sabean won't give up young pitching again to fix a problem while the young pitching is the very thing that has stabilized his bullpen.

That would be stupid on a higher plane than I could fathom.

You want optimism? My glass is half-full of emptiness.

by Daniel on Jul 15, 2006 10:47 PM PDT up reply actions

I'm convinced that the Giants should sell now

I have absolutely no hope for the next 2 seasons, which in ten years will be referred as the "lean years"

FIRE FLIPPY NOW!

by nostocksjustbonds on Jul 15, 2006 5:14 PM PDT reply actions

Re: I'm convinced that the Giants should sell now

The next year or two will be lean. The plus will be the starting pitching will be good even without resigning Schmidt. Hopefully they will sign Feliz at the end of this year. Good pitching will keep you at least in the game.

Keeping a close eye on the Giants AAA players

by Andy In Fresno on Jul 15, 2006 5:42 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: I'm convinced that the Giants should sell now

More than that I think. once you get into lean years it's very hard to get back out of them. Two leads to 10 in the blink of eye. Especially when there's no long term plan in effect. Ask the good folks in Milwaukee and Pittsburgh.

by Roger on Jul 16, 2006 8:25 AM PDT up reply actions

It really is this simple for me

I've seen too many games this year where the Giants are down a couple of runs and a home run could bring them back, or they're up a run or two and a home run could put the game away, and they can't do it.

Wilson could hit one or three of those home runs. Casey, hardly a chance.

I'd take Wilson.

Also, with the injuries of Bonds and Alou, the Giants just don't have much quick run-scoring capability -- adding Casey would be like bringing J.T. Snow back, only with a few more singles and doubles thrown in.

Trust me, while Casey would definitely be an upgrade and is overall as good of a hitter as Wilson, we'll all regret it on those days that both Alou, Bonds, or both are not playing and the Giants make another trip to the singles bar.

You want optimism? My glass is half-full of emptiness.

by Daniel on Jul 15, 2006 10:38 PM PDT reply actions

Oh, and by the way

While it's better rather than worse that Casey seems to hit well in San Francisco, let's play the sample size card...how many plate appearances does Casey actually have in San Francisco? Can't be more than a couple hundred at best, right? Do we really want to count on that as something that'll continue?

...okay, a bit of a cheap shot there. But if Casey can somehow manage to only SLG .423 in the Great American Home Run Ballpark, I can't help but think that number wouldn't improve in San Francisco.

Just me a-talkin', thassall.

You want optimism? My glass is half-full of emptiness.

by Daniel on Jul 16, 2006 12:57 AM PDT reply actions

Re: Giants Pursuing Craig Wilson, Sean Casey

Again I say; Wilson has 78 SO in 231 ABs. Should that be considered a....concern?

Hey...wait a second...Are you throwing at my head?

by Ghost11 on Jul 16, 2006 9:42 AM PDT reply actions

Again

No. He's plenty productive even with the strikeouts, and you'd much prefer those strikeouts when he does it with a man on 1st and less than two outs -- especially considering that I'd project Wilson somewhere in the middle of the order, so there'd be somebody hitting behind him capable of going yard.

It's a slight concern, yes, but I'd be more concerned with Casey's career 1.61 ground ball/fly ball ratio. Can you say "raised potential for even more double plays"? I wouldn't be that worried about it if the Giants batted Casey lower in the order, but somehow I can just envision Casey batting 3rd in front of Bonds with men on base with his ground ball tendencies.

(shudder)

You want optimism? My glass is half-full of emptiness.

by Daniel on Jul 16, 2006 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions

Wilson

I tried to start the get-Craig-Wilson-bandwagon about a month or two ago. I don't see any reason to jump off at this point.

by Nick Schulte on Jul 16, 2006 11:25 AM PDT reply actions

Me, too

Back on June 11th. I don't see any reason to jump off, either, unless of course I spy me some bandits a-trailin' us on our bandwagon. Then, all bets are off, and you're on your own.

You want optimism? My glass is half-full of emptiness.

by Daniel on Jul 16, 2006 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Giants Pursuing Craig Wilson, Sean Casey

How about... we all hope that Brian Sabean pulls something out of his ass and trades for someone better than both of these guys..

Losing California Productions

by losingcalifornia on Jul 16, 2006 10:51 PM PDT reply actions

Re: Giants Pursuing Craig Wilson, Sean Casey

...albert pujols it is.

"Baseball is life, the rest is just details."

by nick @ McCovey Chronicles on Jul 17, 2006 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Giants Pursuing Craig Wilson, Sean Casey

I don't think his ass is that big.

Go Giants: Winn It All with Feliz

by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Jul 17, 2006 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Giants Pursuing Craig Wilson, Sean Casey

Getting Sean Casey just smells too much like getting JT Snow again, and for the same type of salary, even if we do resign him. Unless we are trading Allen Watson for him, I don't see why we would want Casey unless they give him away to us for some A-ball non-prospect. And they want a starting pitcher plus a starting position player, only Niekro would fall under that definition for us (or Finley I guess) and why would they want Niekro if even we cannot use him?

Craig Wilson, however, they have totally non-respected his hitting for two years now, so they cannot really ask for much for him, how can they if they even couldn't even start him. But if you look at their career stats, they are very similar in OPS.

Sure Wilson strikes out a lot. So did Bobby Bonds. But he has 4 seasons worth of games played already and his OPS is still .849 in spite of striking out a lot, so he must be doing something right. And he has been as good at home as away, .861 OPS at home, .837 on the road. Not great but decent and way better than Niekro has been. And though he doesn't hit RHP as well, he still has a .802 OPS against then, while mashing LHP .971 OPS.

So he should cost less in terms of talent given up, hits about as well as Casey overall, plus we want him to be an RBI guy and for that you want someone whose OPS derives more value from SLG than OBP, or more specifically ISO, younger, still control, RHH, and if you go for small samples, he kills at AT&T Mays Field, .357/.367/.536/.902 in 28 AB with 1 HR, so where's the argument against Wilson? I've never seen any good reasons for not getting Wilson, I've been for him since last year when he wasn't being used and Snow was sucking.

Just give them Hennessey and another pitcher prospect, I don't see how another team could beat that because to beat that other teams would have to offer one of their top pitching prospects and, frankly, Wilson isn't worth a top pitching prospect. Just none of our best prospects/young pitchers as the throw-in, or simply no pitcher on Steve S's Top 25 list.

Go Giants: Winn It All with Feliz

by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Jul 17, 2006 5:06 PM PDT reply actions