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nationals get kearns and lopez

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2518314

man, that's all it took to get kearns? royce freaking clayton and gary majewski?

plus the reds give up on their young ss, lopez, an all-star last year.

what are the reds thinking???

more importantly, why wasn't sabean in on the kearns sweepstakes???

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

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i don't...
understand this trade.  AT ALL
You look like I need a drink

by kenshin1 on Jul 13, 2006 1:16 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

On the surface..
That is a horrible trade from the Reds perspective.

by mxmob33 on Jul 13, 2006 1:17 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: nationals get kearns and lopez
This is insane. How can you possibly trade two good young near-stars for random bullpen help?

by Evan on Jul 13, 2006 1:17 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: nationals get kearns and lopez
what makes no sense is the fact that the reds held onto kearns so tightly...i'm SURE they've gotten better offers before for him...way better than royce clayton and gary majewski!!!!!!

by Bruins17 on Jul 13, 2006 1:18 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

We are all on drugs
I'm convinced that pharmaceuticals contributed to the decision-making here.

by Skaldheim on Jul 13, 2006 1:24 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: nationals get kearns and lopez
I just can't fathom this one.

by Grant on Jul 13, 2006 1:26 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: nationals get kearns and lopez
i feel like i'm on crazy pills right now.

are we all just idiots or can we all make better decisions than half of the gms that are out there right now????

didn't the reds trade away willy mo pena just so kearns would have a spot to start everyday???

by Bruins17 on Jul 13, 2006 1:28 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: nationals get kearns and lopez
That was an insane decision to begin with... Kearns had a spot after they traded Casey, if they had played Dunn at 1B. Instead, the GM decided that getting SCOTT HATTEBERG and putting him there was too good to pass up and traded Pena to make that feasible.

by David Arnott on Jul 13, 2006 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: nationals get kearns and lopez
I would like to point out that Jim Bowden--yes, THAT Jim Bowden--just swindled the Reds.

by David Arnott on Jul 13, 2006 1:31 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: nationals get kearns and lopez
I've always thought Bowden was a fool, but in the past six months, he's turned Brad Wilkerson, Bill Bray, Royce Clayton, and Gary Majewski into Soriano, Kearns, Lopez, et al.  Pretty dang good.

by losingcalifornia on Jul 14, 2006 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: nationals get kearns and lopez
Everyone who thinks Bowden's an idiot take one step back.

by Roger on Jul 13, 2006 1:33 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: nationals get kearns and lopez
Sabean - get on the phone with the Reds right now and offer Correia for Dunn.

by Fog City Blues on Jul 13, 2006 1:36 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: nationals get kearns and lopez
seriously man, after seeing a trade like this, i'd trade accardo for dunn straight up!!

by Bruins17 on Jul 13, 2006 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: nationals get kearns and lopez
Is there something I am missing here?  

by out machine on Jul 13, 2006 1:58 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: nationals get kearns and lopez
I would have given Sanchez for Kearns and Lopez.
"I want to dip my balls in it." Louie

by MeSoKrabby on Jul 13, 2006 2:00 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

In a heartbeat.
And I love Sanchez.

by Grant on Jul 13, 2006 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: In a heartbeat.
Me, too.
"I want to dip my balls in it." Louie

by MeSoKrabby on Jul 13, 2006 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Do you think...
Bowden pretended to hesistate before agreeing to the deal or said "yes" immediately followed by 1-2-3 no take backs.
You look like I need a drink

by kenshin1 on Jul 13, 2006 2:10 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Do you think...
You live in DC, right? If you were wondering why there were fireworks going off above RFK Stadium in the middle of the afternoon, it's because Bowden said "yes."

by Kitspool on Jul 13, 2006 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Do you think...
I thought no take backs was automatic at the major league level... That for GMs, and for players the rule book clearly states that in the bigs no tag backs is automatic. It's actually why the transition from the minors is often so difficult.

Or was Bowden just rubbing the rule in?

Coming to you by proxy

by howtheyscored on Jul 13, 2006 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Krivsky on ESPNews
The Reds GM's explanation for the trade: "You have to give up something to get something."

Yeah that's brilliant.

REPORTER: "Brad Pitt, you just dumped Angelina Jolie so you could marry a toothless crack whore with AIDS. How come?"
BRAD PITT: "Well, you have to give up something to get something."

"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f***ing amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK

by Josh from Hollywood on Jul 13, 2006 2:12 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Krivsky on ESPNews
So in your scenario Brad Pitt gave up Angelina Jolie (who, mind you, I'm in that 2% of people who don't think she's *all* that) so he could get AIDS?

Even fake, it just doesn't seem right... I mean, there has to be a better way to get AIDS. It's not just sex. I mean, he could have given up NOT shooting up with a bunch of dying addicts who only have one needle collectively. See, it's this kind of problem solving that makes me think I actually should get into this GM business.

I could do it, right? How hard could it be?

Coming to you by proxy

by howtheyscored on Jul 13, 2006 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Krivsky on ESPNews
I can already tell you're smarter than both Krivsky and Bowden. Combined.
"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f***ing amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK

by Josh from Hollywood on Jul 13, 2006 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Krivsky on ESPNews
You're a pretty sharp fellow. You don't have a resume laying around that you feel like faxing me, do you?
"Fear is temporary, regret lasts forever."

by Brian Sabean on Jul 13, 2006 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: nationals get kearns and lopez
here are a couple bats that might be available...

who would you guys want the most and who would you give up to get them?:

  1. bobby abreu
  2. carlos lee
  3. alfonso soriano (although that seems less likely now that the Nats look like buyers not sellers)
  4. andruw jones
For my money, I'd hope that the Giants go after Abreu pretty hard. Not sure what the Phillies need but I'd give up any combination of Sanchez, Accardo, Winn, Finley, Lowry, Hennessey, or Correia to get him.  

by Bruins17 on Jul 13, 2006 2:18 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: nationals get kearns and lopez
I'd rather have Lee, he's younger(I think) and still has his power. A Winn, Vizquel, Lee, Alou or Winn, Vizquel, Durham, Lee, Alou lineup would be just fine with me.
"I want to dip my balls in it." Louie

by MeSoKrabby on Jul 13, 2006 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: nationals get kearns and lopez
adam dunn
"Baseball is life, the rest is just details."

by nick on Jul 13, 2006 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: nationals get kearns and lopez
The Reds can't make the trade they just did and move Dunn now. For the moment, at least, they're buyers.
FIRE FLIPPY NOW!

by nostocksjustbonds on Jul 13, 2006 10:17 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: nationals get kearns and lopez
I dunno, guys. This sounds like a pretty decent deal to me. Of course, I could've had Kearns and Lopez for Vizcaino and Kline, but I didn't like the net loss in IORG (Intangibles over Regular Guy).
"Fear is temporary, regret lasts forever."

by Brian Sabean on Jul 13, 2006 2:44 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: nationals get kearns and lopez
Considering Kearns is only making $1,850,000 and Lopez $2,700,000, it wasn't exactly a salary dump. What a head-scratcher...

by Josh from The New Giant Thrill on Jul 13, 2006 2:46 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: nationals get kearns and lopez
Not defending the move from the Reds prospective but I have heard (not so much seen) that Lopez is a defensive liability, a leading example of great fantasy player not nearly as great real player.  Kearns I have never been too impressed with, probably because he is always hurt, a real head scratcher now that he is healthy and producing.

The real question is if these two could have been had for something similar to Kline, Wilson, and Viz II why weren't we in on that action?

"San Diego, which of course in German means a whale's vagina" - Ron Burgundy

by W8ingForATitle on Jul 13, 2006 2:55 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: nationals get kearns and lopez
Is there another decent salary site besides Cots? The Reds link isn't working. Or, I guess the actual question is whether anyone knows the status of Kearns and Lopez after this year?

by Josh from The New Giant Thrill on Jul 13, 2006 3:02 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: nationals get kearns and lopez
Keith Law of ESPN says Both Kearns and Lopez are available for Free agency after 2008.
"I want to dip my balls in it." Louie

by MeSoKrabby on Jul 13, 2006 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: nationals get kearns and lopez
The real question is:  What happened to Kearns after this:

<pre>
 Year Ag Tm  Lg  G   AB    R    H   2B 3B  HR  RBI  SB CS  BB  SO   BA   OBP   SLG   TB   SH  SF IBB HBP GDP
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+---+---+--- +---+---+
 2002 22 CIN NL 107  372   66  117  24  3  13   56   6  3  54  81  .315  .407  .500  186   0   3   3   6  11
</pre>

by zenbitz on Jul 13, 2006 3:12 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: nationals get kearns and lopez
As I put it on The Griddle, after a quick look at all the numbers...

NATS Get:
-(KEARNS) Currently serviceable MLB OF with a stellar minor league track record who is still young enough that it can fairly be said of him he just hasn't put it all together yet.
-(LOPEZ) Young MLB SS with an up and down minor league track record, but a breakout season in the bigs last year. Defense might be untenable at SS, but he's still young enough that it can fairly be said of him he still has time to improve that aspect of his game.
-(WAGNER) Former 1st round pitching prospect who put up filthy numbers in college. In the pros, he's walked too many guys, but the Ks are always there, and he's still young enough that it can fairly be said of him he still has time to figure out how to lower those walk totals. Until he does, he's a viable setup type guy, and if he does reduce the walks, he'll be a closing candidate.

REDS get:
-(MAJEWSKI) A middle reliever who hasn't shown that he can strike guys out consistently. In a good year, he's a setup guy, and in the long run all you can expect him to be is decent back of the bullpen filler.
-(BRAY) The left handed version of the first-round prospect above, only with a year less experience, and fewer walks. He looks to be a good relief prospect, especially if those Hits/9 would ever drop.
-(HARRIS) Infielder blocked on the big club. Was never a GREAT prospect anyway. The last time he put up even close to impressive numbers was 2004 in the PCL, an extreme hitter's league. Also blocked on his new team.
-(CLAYTON) Tony Womack, only with less speed and no positional flexibility.
-(THOMPSON) Very young, raw, undersized, right handed pitcher who hasn't shown a great K/BB ratio in 2 pro seasons. Too early to tell.

I thought the Reds were buyers. This makes no sense at all. None. Even the Yankees taking a flier on Ponson makes more sense.

by David Arnott on Jul 13, 2006 3:18 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: nationals get kearns and lopez
Solid analysis. Although I honestly think that the Reds GM thought he was being a buyer in this deal, just like Sabean thought he was buying when he acquired Hawkins last year. Jerome's 17 workmanlike starts in Chicago would have helped us a lot more than LaTroy's mediocre bullpen work did last year, and I really doubt Majewski and Bray will contribute as much Kearns and Lopez down the stretch. But a ton of blown saves will drive a GM to overpay for bullpen help.
"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Jul 13, 2006 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: nationals get kearns and lopez
But we turned Hawkins into Kline, Woo hoo!
"I want to dip my balls in it." Louie

by MeSoKrabby on Jul 13, 2006 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: nationals get kearns and lopez
It's like Cinderella's coach turning into a pumpkin, except, its really like a pumpkin turning into a left handed pumpkin.
"I want to dip my balls in it." Louie

by MeSoKrabby on Jul 13, 2006 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: nationals get kearns and lopez
left-handed pumpkin... i love it. i can see felipe's eyes, at first squinting at the pumpkin sitting in the bullpen, then continuing to stare at it while he slowly walks to the phone to call it in in the 8th.
Dodgers fans eat their young.

by redhornet78 on Jul 14, 2006 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: nationals get kearns and lopez
This is why I think the D-Rays could have got more for Huff... desperate GMs make desperate offers. (Granted, the Reds bullpen this year would make even the most levelheaded GM desperate.)
"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Jul 13, 2006 3:34 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: nationals get kearns and lopez
And looking at some other blogs and message boards, the popular sentiment is "<insert GMs name> could've beaten that package easily by offering <insert somewhat effective relievers names> and <insert replacement level utility infielder's name>!  We could've had Kearns and Lopez!"

by Fog City Blues on Jul 13, 2006 8:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Giants and Sean Casey?
Right under this crazy Reds-Nats deal, I see it says "Giants interested in Sean Casey" on ESPN's links... but I don't have Insider.  

Anyone out there who would like to share the info?

by dangjackson on Jul 13, 2006 5:36 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Giants and Sean Casey?
I'm no fan of Sean Casey, but I'd be willing to give up Kline to have another option at 1B. Hell, I'll throw in Worrell.

by antinous on Jul 13, 2006 5:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, and to answer your question...
Jul 13 - According to a report in the San Francisco Chronicle, the Giants could have an interest in acquiring Sean Casey from the Pirates.

Casey, who the Pirates acquired from the Reds last offseason, is in the final year of his current contract.

by antinous on Jul 13, 2006 5:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Oh, and to answer your question...
Talk about a nothing article.

But thank you for sharing that, and so quickly!

by dangjackson on Jul 13, 2006 5:49 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: nationals get kearns and lopez
I haven't checked the Reds' sites or with my father, a lifelong Reds fan, but after scratching my head over this one the only thing that occurs to me is that I've heard the Reds have some outfield prospects in Triple and Double AA who seem not that far behind Kearns in their development at this point so it's close to being a Lopez for some relievers deal -- and if you look at how much the Reds relievers have cost their team maybe it's worth the risk.

by NearestNorwich on Jul 13, 2006 7:25 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: nationals get kearns and lopez
Denorfia was the Triple AAA guy I was thinking of. And one of the relievers from Washington is a former No. 1 just coming into his own with a mid-90's fastball. Let's remember Liriano and hold off judgment on this one. It's hard to believe Bowden would get the better of anyone.

by NearestNorwich on Jul 13, 2006 7:43 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: nationals get kearns and lopez
Still indefensible. If they think Denorfia is better than Kearns in totality (remember Kearns is an elite defensive corner OF and a decent defensive CF), then the real comparison is Denorfia to Hatteberg/Aurilia at 1B, since they could have brought up Denorfia and moved Dunn to first. I like Bray, but the fact remains that he's a middle reliever and a reliever he will be. If you're thinking Thompson could be something, well... he could be something. Kearns and Lopez ARE somethings.

by David Arnott on Jul 13, 2006 8:50 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: nationals get kearns and lopez
Right. And even if Denorfia legitimately does make Kearns expendable, that's no reason not to get fair value for him in a trade.
"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Jul 13, 2006 9:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: nationals get kearns and lopez
What I'd like to see is both Alous to the Marlins for Cabrera and Girardi.

Whatever happens, I fully expect Sabean to overpay to get a player the Giants don't really need. Just watch him trade for Mike Lieberthal.  This has been his M.O. of late, although last year's July trade was a good one.

by tobias on Jul 13, 2006 11:12 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: nationals get kearns and lopez
Oh this is silly.  Why replace Matheny with Girardi?

by zenbitz on Jul 14, 2006 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: nationals get kearns and lopez
The only logical explanation is this:  Bowden knows where all the skeletons are in the Reds ownership and he has incriminating pictures.  Otherwise, this makes no sense at all.

One of the two players - Kearns or Lopez - for that package would have made more sense, particularly since they are throwing in their closer of the future, Wagner.  Because Majewski's only 26 and has had two great seasons as a reliever now.  And Bray is doing well this season, only 23 and has a plus slider (from my book, Minor League Baseball Analyst by Deric McKamey), good against lefties.  From same book, Daryl Thompson has a plus fastball, only 20, good command, maybe they want to convert him to relieving like we did with Sanchez (Don't know how's he's doing in minors this season).  

And Clayton's only going over to replace Lopez, I assume.  But to give up both players, there must be something unknown to us to explain that, perhaps Lopez' fielding is OK statistically because he doesn't try to make any hard plays?  (All assumptions, anyone has stats on his defense?)  

According to my BP 2006 book on Lopez, "Having an excellent arm and other plus defensive tools has not yet translated into being a good all-around defender in Lopez's case, as he has shown minus range; better positioning and experience should help in that regard."  Wow, the had him at a "-11" last season at SS, which means he cost his team 1.1 wins (@10 runs per win) with his defense last year, which is pretty bad...

Maybe they thought Clayton's defense would save more than Lopez's offense, but he was rated "-6" so he wasn't much better than Lopez and he certainly hit a lot worse.

One of them, maybe, but both?  Madness!!!  

Madness that we should have been party to, only the only trading chip we had that the Reds would want is Kline.  Had Accardo been doing better or Worrell was pitching like he was the past few years, we probably could have done the trade with, say, Sanchez and Vizquel, and that would have been about equal, because while the relievers are older, Vizquel is much better offensively and defensively over Clayton.  Then we could put Austin at 1B, Lopez at SS, bring up Munter and Taschner to replace the relievers, and the lineup would be that much more powerful.

But I think the lack of established relievers or relievers who were knocking the eyes off people, like Papebon, meant that we had no play in this jackpot, we would have had to trade with another team to get another good arm in order to work something out with

Go Giants: Winn It All with Feliz

by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Jul 14, 2006 2:40 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

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