Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=MLB&id=1884
Richie Sexson to Giants
JJ Putz to Red Sox
Manny Ramirez to Mariners
Noah Lowry to Mariners
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=MLB&id=3760
Chad Cordero to Red Sox
Noah Lowry to Nationals
Manny Ramirez to Giants
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
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Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
In the Nationals deal Ramirez comes to The City. Same question about "other pieces" involved
Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
Richie Sexton from Mariners to Giants
Noah Lowry from Giants to Nationals
Chad Cordero from Nationals to RedSox
Manny Ramirez from Red Sox to Mariners
From the Giants perspective I just do not like these trades as we are taking on alot of dollars $14M/yr for two years for either Sexton or Ramirez and not getting rid if any significant dollars. These trade options would leave us with a choice of re-signing Barry or signing an SP to replace Lowry. We will not have the dollars to do both.
Now if we can somehow replace Lowry with Morris and a few prospects I am all in!
Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
by giantsrainman on Dec 4, 2006 8:22 PM PST up reply actions
Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
by rod beck on Dec 5, 2006 8:16 AM PST up reply actions
Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
Why give up talent and money for Manny when Bonds is available for just money?
Noah for Sexson makes even less sense. Further destabalizing an already shaky rotation undercuts any offensive improvement Sexson brings, and big Sexy is a whole lot older and more expensive than Noah as well.
Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
Think of it this way - would you trade Manny Ramirez and Noah Lowry for JJ Putz and Richie Sexson? I wouldn't. Sexson is more overrated than Manny. BPro has him at 6.2 WARP last year, but they vastly overrate his defense - Dial has him at -6 runs.
Granted, the Giants are probably going to have to overpay for 1B help at this point, and Sexson will probably only be overpaid by $3 million/year or so. But I would feel better about it if the Mariners and Red Sox sent some money our way in that deal.
If that did happen, though, this would be the probable lineup:
- Roberts/Winn
- Dreamy
- Durham
- Bonds
- Sexson
- Linden/Winn/Roberts
- Aurilia/Feliz
- Molina
- Pitcher
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Dec 4, 2006 8:24 PM PST reply actions
Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
by giantsrainman on Dec 4, 2006 8:27 PM PST up reply actions
Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
I think that there will be an OF rotation of sorts, with Bonds, Roberts, and Winn being the main starters and Linden getting a lot of playing time depending on the health and success of the others. I realize that wasn't clear from my lineup order above. I didn't mean to imply that Linden would be the starter.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Dec 4, 2006 8:33 PM PST up reply actions
Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
If SF really wants Ramirez
LF Roberts
CF Winn
RF Drew
provvides solid defense, team speed and some XBH. Once Boston thinks Drew may go elsewhere Ramirez value may come down and they be more ready to deal.
Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
Sexson is only signed for a couple more years so he's not gonna kill any long term plans, but we do get a couple years out of him.
We all like Lowry, but I don't know how much of that is based on his stats. He's been a decent, but too inconsistent starter that didn't progress last year. If you can sign Barry, trade just Lowry for Sexson and still have something leftover for an end of rotation starter I'm okay with this.
by keithr on Dec 4, 2006 8:45 PM PST reply actions
Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
Without dollars, thanks but no thanks, I would rather keep Lowry and just re-sign Bonds.
by giantsrainman on Dec 4, 2006 8:54 PM PST up reply actions
Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Dec 4, 2006 9:00 PM PST up reply actions
Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
by giantsrainman on Dec 4, 2006 9:28 PM PST up reply actions
Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
If the Giants do this trade and re-sign Bonds, this would be a tidy little line-up with a potentially great bench:
CF Roberts
SS Vizquel
2B Durham
LF Bonds
1B Sexton
3B Aurilia
RF Winn
C Molina
Bench: Feliz/Alfonzo/Sweeney/Frandsen/Linden
This leaves a rotation of: Morris/Cain/Sanchez/Correia/Lincecum
BullPen: Benitez/Worrell/Hennessey/Chulk/Wilson/Taschner/Misch
This team's pitching would be scary as hell, and exciting as hell. If the majority of the young pitchers came though, this team would be right in the thick of things in the NL West. If not, (which is likely), well, this is what rebuilding feels like. Evaluate the talent, provide the young hurlers with some experience, and see what cream rises to the top.
If you don't like this scenario, don't look at me. Tell Magowan to dip into that magic Maddux money before the Barry window closes for good.
Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
A couple points:
I don't care how many RBI Sexson has had, ever. It doesn't tell me anything about how good he is. Remember Feliz last year with 98 RBI? Remember Tony Batista in 2004 hitting .241/.272/.455 with 110 RBI? How about Joe Carter in 1990? .232/.290/.391. Yikes. That is just brutal. But he had 24 HR and 115 (!) RBI. 115 RBI. And to give you an idea of how dumb sportswriters are, well, Joe Carter and his 85 OPS+ finished 17th in MVP voting that year.
Also, I am not so much interested in career numbers. What Sexson did 7 years ago isn't terribly relevant to what he will do now. A player's performance in recent years tells us much more than his career numbers if he has had a longer career. Shawn Green has a career 121 OPS+, but do you want him now? I don't either.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Dec 4, 2006 9:36 PM PST up reply actions
Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
by nick @ McCovey Chronicles on Dec 4, 2006 9:32 PM PST reply actions
Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
Basically, if you have to go out and get Lowry on the FA market, he is going to cost you at least $9m/year.
The Giants really need hitting though.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Dec 4, 2006 9:48 PM PST up reply actions
Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
- More hits than IP (166 /159.1)
- Losing record: 7-10
- Mediocre WHIP 1.39
- Batting average against: .273
- ERA 4.74 in an NL pitcher's park
- Injury concerns to boot
Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
by howtheyscored on Dec 5, 2006 4:48 AM PST up reply actions
Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
If we're getting rid of Lowry for Sexson, 'cause the Mariners want to drop salary...well...I'd hope that we try to pick up one of their minor league guys (like Snelling, now w/o a position) or one of their "failures" (like Reed). I just think that Lowry has a pretty good up-side, especially for longer than Sexson's.
by Kent @ McCovey Chronicles on Dec 5, 2006 5:31 AM PST up reply actions
Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
Padilla (1.38 WHIP in 2006)
Meche (1.43)
Lilly (1.43)
Suppan (1.45)
Marquis (1.52)
Batista (1.53)
Eaton (1.57)
...will probably all end up getting $8-13M a year on long-term deals. If Lowry never improves on his 2006 performance (a pretty pessimistic outlook given his age and his 2004-2005 success, but not an impossible one), he will have significant value, either in a trade or in keeping us from having to overpay for a Suppan. If he does improve, he will be a rare young cornerstone on a sad and aging team.
If we can trade him for another potential cornerstone, particularly a hitter, I would be all for it, but dealing him for a pricey inconsitent veteran doesn't make much sense.
Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
At a minimum, we need one 2nd tier SP...Maddux, Lilly, Meche, resign Barry, and deal for a good position player at 1B or RF (Signing Huff for 1B could force Feliz into a utility role and not cost us any young pitching)
Ideally, we'd sign Zito for 17m/yr (they said they had extra cash to burn) to replace our ace SP, sign one of Kline or King, and have a backup plan at closer (Foulke..Riske?) if no one will take Benitez.
I just have a sneaking feeling that Sabean is considering Bonds AND Manny in the corners...a scary combo in many different ways...
We can (or at least used to) sign an aging FA bat with the best of them...If we do deal a Lowry or other young P, lets aquire what we haven't had in a long time...a solid young position player.
Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
My question is why should the Giants trade Lowry or Sanchez for Sexson when they can go out and sign Aubrey Huff for less money and keep the young pitching? Huff's not the hitter that Sexson is, but I'd rather have Aubrey and keep Lowry than get Sexson and have to shell out 10M a season for Lilly or Meche.
Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
by GiantJim on Dec 5, 2006 12:43 PM PST up reply actions
Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors

Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
It sure would be awsome to have an offense with both Barry and Manny in the middle of the batting order. However, I just don't see how the dollars work out unless we are spending a whole lot more then $85M or we get alot of dollars with Manny. I have the same concern with any trade for Sexton. Just how do we afford these two big bats and the additional pitching we need too.
by giantsrainman on Dec 5, 2006 12:26 AM PST up reply actions
Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
If you're building around young pitching, an outfield with Manny Ramirez in it is not the way to go.
Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
I wouldn't want Manny instead of Bonds, but Manny in addition to Bonds is somehow intriguing...
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Dec 5, 2006 12:19 AM PST reply actions
Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
I'm tired and can't go to bed until my essay is done, so I won't give names or numbers or anything terribly coherent, but does it seem to anybody else that Sabean cannot possibly do the things that he is saying he trying and wants to do as far as signing another infielder, another starting pitcher, relief help, and swinging some serious trade on an 85-90 million dollar payroll? It sounds, and I know that Sabean doesn't often say the same things he does as if he's working pretending that he has a lot more money to throw around than he does.
I'm pretty sure that an official payroll limit has not been announced by ownership. Is it in the least bit possible that we might be seeing an unprecedented loosening of the strings? I actually hope I'm right, but I honestly doubt it with everything that provides a sense of doubt in my body.
$85M
Re: $85M
"That Ramirez prefers the Angels -- who are refusing to surrender their valuable late-inning relievers -- and might want the two $20 million option years to be exercised isn't stopping the Giants' pursuit. They've got the most freed-up money since the Peter Magowan group bought the team, and finishing runners-up in the bidding for Alfonso Soriano and Carlos Lee could make them more desperate to land Ramirez."
The available FA money, which we've been assuming is $45 million, may be more like $50-$55 million.
by GiantJim on Dec 5, 2006 12:38 PM PST up reply actions
Re: $85M
Of course, it also wouldn't surprise me if they leave the budget around $90M and just squeeze more contracts in by backloading them. Get ready for Jeff Suppan's $4 year $40M deal to look like 3M-10M-12M-15M. Good times.
Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
I'm a big fan of Richie Sexson. He's flawed, but he's a big stick who can blow open a ballgame. If this deal was proposed two years ago, I would be jumping up and down in favor of it. He'll be 32 next year, and he's bound to get worse and worse from here. Still, he'd be a big upgrade to the Giants anemic offense.
If I had to trade any of the Giants young starters, Lowry would be the one. He seems to have the mark of "close, but no cigar" on him. The league may very well have figured him out -- will he be able to rebound again? Tough to say.
If Seattle paid about $5 million of Sexson's salary each year, I'd be in favor of this deal.
Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
Dick Sexson
Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
by lunaticfridge on Dec 5, 2006 11:25 AM PST up reply actions
Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 5, 2006 11:56 AM PST up reply actions
Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
by GiantJim on Dec 5, 2006 1:56 PM PST up reply actions
Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
Here's a link to news from Seattle about the Lowry to Seattle rumor (Giants get Sexson).
Lowry is a cheap pitcher who can only get more valuable, whereas Sexson is still overpaid and can only get worse. I don't see how getting Sexson for him would make a lot of sense, unless Boston is sending some of their better position prospects to us or even Coco Crisp, or whatever the CF name is, or if we dump Benitez too in the deal. The deal as outlines is preposterous, Seattle and Boston are the ones who are in a financial bind, the Giants should be getting more out of the deal because Lowry is a cheap and good resource, unless there is something about him that the Giants know and we don't.
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Dec 5, 2006 12:41 PM PST reply actions
Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
If we're reading Sabean right, it seems that there is more money in the budget than previously thought. Despite some wasteful contracts (Molina, Feliz, Roberts), the Giants actually seem like they have $30 million more to spend on sluggers and pitchers.
There are likely more intelligent ways to spend the mone than on Manny/Sexson and Lily/Suppan, but the idea of a line-up with Manny and Bonds in the corners, sounds like it would be entertaining to watch, and somewhat competitive for 2007, assuming the pitching doesn't self-destruct.
All these rumors do make it seem that Linden and Frandsen won't see the light of day.
by GiantJim on Dec 5, 2006 12:56 PM PST up reply actions
Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
Re: Trade Rumors
"Meanwhile, Angels General Manager Bill Stoneman is believed to have met Monday night with Atlanta GM John Schuerholz to discuss a trade for Adam LaRoche, the Braves' 27-year-old first baseman who hit .285 with 32 home runs and 90 runs batted in last season.
The appeal of LaRoche -- beyond being young, productive and, as a player in his first year of arbitration, relatively cheap -- is that the Angels believe they can swing a deal for him without giving up pitching.
The Braves, in need of a leadoff man and a second baseman to replace Marcus Giles, who is expected to be traded, are interested in speedy utility player Chone Figgins and first baseman Casey Kotchman."
Can't we put together a comparable package to get this trade done?
Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
My conservative estimate is that Barry and Manny together are worth about 12 WARP, and that counts defense. It is entirely possible that Manny and Barry will be better than that because it is likely that both will be healthier this year.
12 Wins is a big deal. BPro sets replacement level at a .351 winning percentage, so an entire team of replacement-level players would win 57 games. If two players alone can get you to 69 wins, then the other 6 positions only need to average about 3 WARP apiece to get you to 87 wins. That isn't that difficult. And although the positive WARP players also have to make up for the negative ones, and the zeroes like Feliz, this team shouldn't have a ton of negatives because Sabean is putting together a deeper team than we have seen from the Giants in a long time.
That doesn't mean that the Giants would be any kind of great team, but the way the NL has been lately, that certainly would get you into the playoffs. And this team has the potential to have good pitching. The youngsters will get better, and you can get a career year from anyone. It would also depend on who replaces Lowry (or whomever else is traded), and it would require a little luck, but a team with Barry and Manny as the hitting backbone definitely has the potential of being pretty good.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Dec 5, 2006 10:10 PM PST reply actions

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