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Around SBN: Jim Irsay: We Can Make It Work With Peyton Manning

Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=MLB&id=1884
Richie Sexson to Giants
JJ Putz to Red Sox
Manny Ramirez to Mariners
Noah Lowry to Mariners

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=MLB&id=3760
Chad Cordero to Red Sox
Noah Lowry to Nationals
Manny Ramirez to Giants

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

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Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
In tne Mariner deal they make out like bandits - Ramirez and Lowry. Wonder who the "other pieces" are in this deal

In the Nationals deal Ramirez comes to The City.  Same question about "other pieces" involved

by wilriv21 on Dec 4, 2006 8:14 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
Why not combine the two if Boston like Cordero better then Putz?

Richie Sexton from Mariners to Giants
Noah Lowry from Giants to Nationals
Chad Cordero from Nationals to RedSox
Manny Ramirez from Red Sox to Mariners

From the Giants perspective I just do not like these trades as we are taking on alot of dollars $14M/yr for two years for either Sexton or Ramirez and not getting rid if any significant dollars.  These trade options would leave us with a choice of re-signing Barry or signing an SP to replace Lowry.  We will not have the dollars to do both.

Now if we can somehow replace Lowry with Morris and a few prospects I am all in!

 

by giantsrainman on Dec 4, 2006 8:21 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
Of course $5M a year from both Boston and Seattle for a total of $10M a year would also work out just fine.

by giantsrainman on Dec 4, 2006 8:22 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
What if we could work it out that we threw in Benitez and his money?  Then the deal wouldn't involve such a loaded contract coming our way, and maybe we could even get a young prospect in return to balance it all out.  I'd be more willing to do something then.  I don't mind trading Lowry, but I don't want the cash to be exorbitant and not have the money to sign Bonds and another starter.

by rod beck on Dec 5, 2006 8:16 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
If I had to choose, I'll take the first trade. At least we get a slugging 1B and keep left field open for the big fella. Getting many at the expense of Lowry and Bonds makes me ill.

by mxmob33 on Dec 4, 2006 8:21 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
Both seem like bad deals to me.

Why give up talent and money for Manny when Bonds is available for just money?

Noah for Sexson makes even less sense. Further destabalizing an already shaky rotation undercuts any offensive improvement Sexson brings, and big Sexy is a whole lot older and more expensive than Noah as well.

by Bhaakon on Dec 4, 2006 8:24 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
The second deal is pointless.  It looks like Bonds is coming back, and everyone knows my feelings about Manny vs. Bonds at this point.  At least the first deal makes a bit of sense.  The first deal also looks great for Seattle.  They get Manny and Lowry?

Think of it this way - would you trade Manny Ramirez and Noah Lowry for JJ Putz and Richie Sexson?  I wouldn't.  Sexson is more overrated than Manny.  BPro has him at 6.2 WARP last year, but they vastly overrate his defense - Dial has him at -6 runs.

Granted, the Giants are probably going to have to overpay for 1B help at this point, and Sexson will probably only be overpaid by $3 million/year or so.  But I would feel better about it if the Mariners and Red Sox sent some money our way in that deal.

If that did happen, though, this would be the probable lineup:

  1. Roberts/Winn
  2. Dreamy
  3. Durham
  4. Bonds
  5. Sexson
  6. Linden/Winn/Roberts
  7. Aurilia/Feliz
  8. Molina
  9. Pitcher
That isn't so bad, right?

by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Dec 4, 2006 8:24 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
You are just flat out dreaming if you think Winn is going to stay on the team an not be a full time starter.  You may not like him but if he stays he will start period.

by giantsrainman on Dec 4, 2006 8:27 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
I think Winn will mainly start, and I generally do like him.  I just want him to be in CF, which probably won't be the case most of the time.

I think that there will be an OF rotation of sorts, with Bonds, Roberts, and Winn being the main starters and Linden getting a lot of playing time depending on the health and success of the others.  I realize that wasn't clear from my lineup order above.  I didn't mean to imply that Linden would be the starter.  

by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Dec 4, 2006 8:33 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
Lowry for Sexson is just a horrible, horrible trade. Lowry for Manny would be fine if Manny (or Bonds) could play first, but they can't, so it's just a lateral move at the cost of a talented and relatively cheap young pitcher. No thanks.

by Evan on Dec 4, 2006 8:26 PM PST reply actions  

If SF really wants Ramirez
why don't they really put the squeeze on Boston. Start talking about signing Drew. An OF of
LF Roberts
CF Winn
RF Drew
provvides solid defense, team speed and some XBH. Once Boston thinks Drew may go elsewhere Ramirez value may come down and they be more ready to deal.

by wilriv21 on Dec 4, 2006 8:39 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
I don't know.  I kinda like Lowry for Sexson.  As we've seen it's not easy to get a big bat.  You have to give up something.  If they bring in Sexson and sign Barry that moves Aurilia to 3b and puts Feliz at a more tolerable super-sub role.  The lineup then looks pretty nice.  

Sexson is only signed for a couple more years so he's not gonna kill any long term plans, but we do get a couple years out of him.  

We all like Lowry, but I don't know how much of that is based on his stats.  He's been a decent, but too inconsistent starter that didn't progress last year.  If you can sign Barry, trade just Lowry for Sexson and still have something leftover for an end of rotation starter I'm okay with this.  

by keithr on Dec 4, 2006 8:45 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
I like the lineup too.  But where do you find any money to replace Lowry in the rotation?  All the money is spent on Sexton, Bonds, Durham, Roberts, Feliz, Molina, and Aurilia.  In fact, I would expect the Giants to let Bonds go an play Feliz in LF so that they have the Bonds money to spend on pitching.

Without dollars, thanks but no thanks, I would rather keep Lowry and just re-sign Bonds.  

by giantsrainman on Dec 4, 2006 8:54 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
I guess if there's no money left, you go with Correia and Hennessey in the rotation until Tim the Enchanter is ready.

by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Dec 4, 2006 9:00 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
The New York Yankees Offense would be hard pressed to win with a rotation of Morris, Cain, Sanchez, Hennessey, and Correia.  This is just crazy talk.

by giantsrainman on Dec 4, 2006 9:28 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
Personally, I think Lowry for Sexton would be a steal for the Giants, and leave most Mariners fans weeping openly. If anything,  Sexton is *under*rated- some mighty impressive numbers- 7 seasons with 30+ HR (2 w/45 HR!), 6 seasons with 100+ RBI, 2-time all star, career .269  .350  .526.

If the Giants do this trade and re-sign Bonds, this would be a tidy little line-up with a potentially great bench:

CF Roberts
SS Vizquel
2B Durham
LF Bonds
1B Sexton
3B Aurilia
RF Winn
C  Molina

Bench: Feliz/Alfonzo/Sweeney/Frandsen/Linden

This leaves a rotation of: Morris/Cain/Sanchez/Correia/Lincecum

BullPen: Benitez/Worrell/Hennessey/Chulk/Wilson/Taschner/Misch

This team's pitching would be scary as hell, and exciting as hell. If the majority of the young pitchers came though, this team would be right in the thick of things in the NL West. If not, (which is likely), well, this is what rebuilding feels like. Evaluate the talent, provide the young hurlers with some experience, and see what cream rises to the top.

If you don't like this scenario, don't look at me. Tell Magowan to dip into that magic Maddux money before the Barry window closes for good.

Humm Baby!

by Kid Fresh on Dec 4, 2006 9:07 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
Replacing Feliz with Sexson in the lineup adds 40 runs. Sexson's an awful fielder, and Feliz is better than Aurilia ... let's say the defensive hit is 10 runs, though I suspect it's more than than. Your net gain is 30 runs (which is to say, about 3 wins). All well and good, but Sexson makes $14 million a year, so you haven't really got money left for anything else, and you've got a bad bullpen and a worse rotation.

by Evan on Dec 4, 2006 9:20 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
I agree that Sexson is a very good hitter.  I just worry about how much he will cost.

A couple points:

I don't care how many RBI Sexson has had, ever.  It doesn't tell me anything about how good he is.  Remember Feliz last year with 98 RBI?  Remember Tony Batista in 2004 hitting .241/.272/.455 with 110 RBI?  How about Joe Carter in 1990?  .232/.290/.391.  Yikes.  That is just brutal.  But he had 24 HR and 115 (!) RBI.  115 RBI.  And to give you an idea of how dumb sportswriters are, well, Joe Carter and his 85 OPS+ finished 17th in MVP voting that year.

Also, I am not so much interested in career numbers.  What Sexson did 7 years ago isn't terribly relevant to what he will do now.  A player's performance in recent years tells us much more than his career numbers if he has had a longer career.  Shawn Green has a career 121 OPS+, but do you want him now?  I don't either.

by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Dec 4, 2006 9:36 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
You have to wonder if Sabean is thinking about dealing Frandsen at this point.  I obviously don't know what other organizations think about him, but he is coming off of a strong AFL and his value could be at its highest.  If somehow we aquire Sexson there would be no room for him on the bench with Aurilia and Feliz sharing the super-sub role.

by sfgreg on Dec 4, 2006 9:19 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
trading lowry for sexson would be stupid. decent hitter at all-star prices, versus good pitcher who costs less than alfonso soriano will make in a month - that's a nobrainer, people.
"Baseball is life, the rest is just details."

by nick @ McCovey Chronicles on Dec 4, 2006 9:32 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
Lowry doesn't even have to be that good to make him valuable.  He very well could be Jarrod Washburn quality, and Washburn got a 4/$37.5m contract last year.

Basically, if you have to go out and get Lowry on the FA market, he is going to cost you at least $9m/year.

The Giants really need hitting though.  

by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Dec 4, 2006 9:48 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
Lowry's last season:
  • More hits than IP    (166 /159.1)
  • Losing record: 7-10       
  • Mediocre WHIP 1.39   
  • Batting average against: .273   
  • ERA 4.74 in an NL pitcher's park
  • Injury concerns to boot
Lowry is good, only when looking through orange-and-black colored glasses.
Humm Baby!

by Kid Fresh on Dec 5, 2006 4:19 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
What are you talking about. I don't remember this... last season... that you speak of.
Coming to you by proxy

by howtheyscored on Dec 5, 2006 4:48 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
I happen to like Lowry as an inexpensive, innings-eater type of pitcher who can be very good AND he's NOT old.  I know that Manny will bring "excitement" to SF and many Giants fans.  I think that we should be very careful with trading him as he's one of the few trading pieces that we have.  

If we're getting rid of Lowry for Sexson, 'cause the Mariners want to drop salary...well...I'd hope that we try to pick up one of their minor league guys (like Snelling, now w/o a position) or one of their "failures" (like Reed).  I just think that Lowry has a pretty good up-side, especially for longer than Sexson's.

by Kent @ McCovey Chronicles on Dec 5, 2006 5:31 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
Fair enough, kid, but this winter, older pitchers like...

Padilla (1.38 WHIP in 2006)
Meche (1.43)
Lilly (1.43)
Suppan (1.45)
Marquis (1.52)
Batista (1.53)
Eaton (1.57)

...will probably all end up getting $8-13M a year on long-term deals. If Lowry never improves on his 2006 performance (a pretty pessimistic outlook given his age and his 2004-2005 success, but not an impossible one), he will have significant value, either in a trade or in keeping us from having to overpay for a Suppan. If he does improve, he will be a rare young cornerstone on a sad and aging team.

If we can trade him for another potential cornerstone, particularly a hitter, I would be all for it, but dealing him for a pricey inconsitent veteran doesn't make much sense.

"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Dec 5, 2006 11:55 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
If sabean has half a brain left...and it appears he might, he's on the right track in regards to shopping Lowry and signing a FA SP or two.  What is our one true commodity? young pitching.  If he meant any of the babel he's thrown out over the years about drafting heavily on pitching due to it's higher value, he needs to cash in at some point.  He tried with the AJ fiasco and Ponson and hadsome success in dealing aardsma and jerome for Hawkins->kline and landing winn for foppert/yorvit.

At a minimum, we need one 2nd tier SP...Maddux, Lilly, Meche, resign Barry, and deal for a good position player at 1B or RF (Signing Huff for 1B could force Feliz into a utility role and not cost us any young pitching)  

Ideally, we'd sign Zito for 17m/yr (they said they had extra cash to burn) to replace our ace SP, sign one of Kline or King, and have a backup plan at closer (Foulke..Riske?) if no one will take Benitez.  

I just have a sneaking feeling that Sabean is considering Bonds AND Manny in the corners...a scary combo in many different ways...

We can (or at least used to) sign an aging FA bat with the best of them...If we do deal a Lowry or other young P, lets aquire what we haven't had in a long time...a solid young position player.

by DaStick on Dec 5, 2006 12:09 AM PST reply actions  

Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
I don't have much problem with the Giants trading promising young pitchers for promising young hitters, but that's not what is going on here.

My question is why should the Giants trade Lowry or Sanchez for Sexson when they can go out and sign Aubrey Huff for less money and keep the young pitching? Huff's not the hitter that Sexson is, but I'd rather have Aubrey and keep Lowry than get Sexson and have to shell out 10M a season for Lilly or Meche.

by Bhaakon on Dec 5, 2006 12:39 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
Sounds like we're on the same page, although, short of resigning Schmidt, we already have a gaping hole in our rotation.  Sure we can bring up some more youngins (Linecum) and see what sticks, but all of these veteran position player signings sends a message that there is some hope of contending.  It would also follow that we'd need to add to the rotation now via free agency to avoid having to deal away more talent at the deadline, optomistically speaking.  Any thought of dealing Lowry would make it all the more important..  

by DaStick on Dec 5, 2006 12:55 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
Well put. $8M for Lowry and Huff in 2007, with Lowry signed to a great four-year deal, or $25M for Suppan and Sexson in 2007, with Suppan signed to a brutal four-year deal.
"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Dec 5, 2006 11:40 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
Or even $5-$6 million for Wilson/Lowry.  Leaves Sabean more money to blow on the Felizs, Molinas and Roberts of the world.
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." - Jimi Hendrix

by GiantJim on Dec 5, 2006 12:43 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
I just have a sneaking feeling that Sabean is considering Bonds AND Manny in the corners

LicensetoPills: they say this to my family. to barry bonds family. and i say, "i'll bust you up. here is a candy corn."

by jponry on Dec 5, 2006 12:13 AM PST reply actions  

Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
Manny did play RF all the years he played in Cleveland.  I remember Manny as a CFer with the Charlotte Knights in AAA before he came up to Cleveland. We all thought Alou would be horrible in RF and we were wrong.  Maybe we are wrong about Manny too.  It is well known that none of the defensive matrics do a good job of accounting for the effects of the Green Monster.  Maybe Manny isn't as bad on defense as we all think.

It sure would be awsome to have an offense with both Barry and Manny in the middle of the batting order.  However, I just don't see how the dollars work out unless we are spending a whole lot more then $85M or we get alot of dollars with Manny.  I have the same concern with any trade for Sexton.  Just how do we afford these two big bats and the additional pitching we need too.

by giantsrainman on Dec 5, 2006 12:26 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
Yeah, but EVERY metric has him as that bad, on the road AND at home and even if you halve his defensive numbers, they're still shockingly terrible.

If you're building around young pitching, an outfield with Manny Ramirez in it is not the way to go.

LicensetoPills: they say this to my family. to barry bonds family. and i say, "i'll bust you up. here is a candy corn."

by jponry on Dec 5, 2006 8:22 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
I'm all for getting Sexson, but I wouldn't want to give up Lowry for him. I'm curious as to who else it would take to get him. As for Manny, no thank you.
LicenseToPills: barry bonds says words, they have nothing to do with his thoughts, they are just subjects and predicates in his mental kingdom

by Natto on Dec 5, 2006 12:15 AM PST reply actions  

Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
With Bonds and Manny in the corners, we sure wouldn't have any complaints about offense any more.  And realistically, over a full season, Manny wouldn't be that much worse than Moises was.  Manny also has experience handling balls off of short, high walls.  It's Triples Alley I would worry a lot about.  Maybe rotating Roberts and Winn in CF would keep them fresh, which they would really need.  Remember that Bonds isn't bad at all in LF, but he isn't great, so the CFer couldn't effectively cheat toward RF so much.

I wouldn't want Manny instead of Bonds, but Manny in addition to Bonds is somehow intriguing...

by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Dec 5, 2006 12:19 AM PST reply actions  

Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
Cain and his .77 FB/GB would end up in a psych ward by July.

by Bhaakon on Dec 5, 2006 12:42 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
I'd rather see the Manny money spent on Zito...then deal young P for a young position player.  God, if those Schmidt for Howard rumors ever had any truth to them...

by DaStick on Dec 5, 2006 12:59 AM PST reply actions  

Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
I have had the benefit of reading that Sabean is planning to trade for SP - which makes sense if Lowerey is traded.  And if we get either Manny or Sexy, we've got players to trade.

by allfrank on Dec 5, 2006 1:04 AM PST reply actions  

Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
Seriously, with everything that I've been hearing and looking at the money we have left, and based on the idea that Sabean seems to be trying to put together a team with good pitching on top of its mediocre hitting, it strikes me that the Payroll would have to go up to a good $115 for it to come close to happening.

I'm tired and can't go to bed until my essay is done, so I won't give names or numbers or anything terribly coherent, but does it seem to anybody else that Sabean cannot possibly do the things that he is saying he trying and wants to do as far as signing another infielder, another starting pitcher, relief help, and swinging some serious trade on an 85-90 million dollar payroll? It sounds, and I know that Sabean doesn't often say the same things he does as if he's working pretending that he has a lot more money to throw around than he does.

I'm pretty sure that an official payroll limit has not been announced by ownership. Is it in the least bit possible that we might be seeing an unprecedented loosening of the strings? I actually hope I'm right, but I honestly doubt it with everything that provides a sense of doubt in my body.

Coming to you by proxy

by howtheyscored on Dec 5, 2006 1:28 AM PST reply actions  

$85M
With as much money as MLB has been making that last couple of years and with many other teams increasing their budgets, it only makes sense that the Giants would do the same.  I think there is a good possibility that their budget has increased, but I guess we have to wait and see if that's true and, more importantly, how much.

by Nick Schulte on Dec 5, 2006 8:16 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: $85M
I agree.  There is this quote, which seems to imply that money is no object, from John Shea of the Chonicle:

"That Ramirez prefers the Angels -- who are refusing to surrender their valuable late-inning relievers -- and might want the two $20 million option years to be exercised isn't stopping the Giants' pursuit. They've got the most freed-up money since the Peter Magowan group bought the team, and finishing runners-up in the bidding for Alfonso Soriano and Carlos Lee could make them more desperate to land Ramirez."

The available FA money, which we've been assuming is $45 million, may be more like $50-$55 million.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." - Jimi Hendrix

by GiantJim on Dec 5, 2006 12:38 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: $85M
Yeah, it wouldn't surprise me if they bump up the budget a little.

Of course, it also wouldn't surprise me if they leave the budget around $90M and just squeeze more contracts in by backloading them. Get ready for Jeff Suppan's $4 year $40M deal to look like 3M-10M-12M-15M. Good times.

"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Dec 5, 2006 12:54 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
The Lowry-Sexson idea intrigues me.

I'm a big fan of Richie Sexson.  He's flawed, but he's a big stick who can blow open a ballgame.  If this deal was proposed two years ago, I would be jumping up and down in favor of it.  He'll be 32 next year, and he's bound to get worse and worse from here.  Still, he'd be a big upgrade to the Giants anemic offense.

If I had to trade any of the Giants young starters, Lowry would be the one.  He seems to have the mark of "close, but no cigar" on him.  The league may very well have figured him out -- will he be able to rebound again?  Tough to say.

If Seattle paid about $5 million of Sexson's salary each year, I'd be in favor of this deal.

by Skaldheim on Dec 5, 2006 8:43 AM PST reply actions  

Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
Now the latest is Lowry, Sanchez and wilson just to land Manny?  Phulease..  Just get busy signing Huff, Bonds and someone to replace Schmidt and forget about overpaying for ManRam....

by DaStick on Dec 5, 2006 10:28 AM PST reply actions  

Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
Sexson you up 162 games a season!
Biggest mankinder in the history of no brain.

by Goofus on Dec 5, 2006 1:27 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
Richard Lockwood Sexson. If that's not a porn name I don't know what is.
Read SFDugout. It'll make you a better person.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 5, 2006 11:56 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
His first name is actually Richmond, but "Lockwood Sexson in a three way with Manny and the Giants" might be something one would read on the cover of an adult oriented DVD.
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." - Jimi Hendrix

by GiantJim on Dec 5, 2006 1:56 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/baseball/294724_mbok05.html

Here's a link to news from Seattle about the Lowry to Seattle rumor (Giants get Sexson).

Lowry is a cheap pitcher who can only get more valuable, whereas Sexson is still overpaid and can only get worse.  I don't see how getting Sexson for him would make a lot of sense, unless Boston is sending some of their better position prospects to us or even Coco Crisp, or whatever the CF name is, or if we dump Benitez too in the deal.  The deal as outlines is preposterous, Seattle and Boston are the ones who are in a financial bind, the Giants should be getting more out of the deal because Lowry is a cheap and good resource, unless there is something about him that the Giants know and we don't.

Now sign the big boy....

by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Dec 5, 2006 12:41 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
In a world where Soriano and Lee are getting $16-$17 million a year, I wouldn't say that Sexson is overpaid.

If we're reading Sabean right, it seems that there is more money in the budget than previously thought.  Despite some wasteful contracts (Molina, Feliz, Roberts), the Giants actually seem like they have $30 million more to spend on sluggers and pitchers.  

There are likely more intelligent ways to spend the mone than on Manny/Sexson and Lily/Suppan, but the idea of a line-up with Manny and Bonds in the corners, sounds like it would be entertaining to watch, and somewhat competitive for  2007, assuming the pitching doesn't self-destruct.

All these rumors do make it seem that Linden and Frandsen won't see the light of day.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." - Jimi Hendrix

by GiantJim on Dec 5, 2006 12:56 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
I think with Manny and Bonds in the corners, the league might make a special exemption and allow us to play both Roberts and Winn in CF.
Biggest mankinder in the history of no brain.

by Goofus on Dec 5, 2006 1:29 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Trade Rumors
What about a trade with Atlanta for Adam LaRoche?  I read this in the LA Times:

"Meanwhile, Angels General Manager Bill Stoneman is believed to have met Monday night with Atlanta GM John Schuerholz to discuss a trade for Adam LaRoche, the Braves' 27-year-old first baseman who hit .285 with 32 home runs and 90 runs batted in last season.

The appeal of LaRoche -- beyond being young, productive and, as a player in his first year of arbitration, relatively cheap -- is that the Angels believe they can swing a deal for him without giving up pitching.

The Braves, in need of a leadoff man and a second baseman to replace Marcus Giles, who is expected to be traded, are interested in speedy utility player Chone Figgins and first baseman Casey Kotchman."

Can't we put together a comparable package to get this trade done?

by huro1010 on Dec 5, 2006 2:05 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Manny Ramirez - 3 Way Trade Rumors
I am intrigued by Manny in RF.  You guys are well aware of my thoughts about Manny vs. Bonds, but to have both?  Manny may be overpaid and overrated, but he is still quite a valuable player.  As bad as Manny's defense is, he is still a good enough hitter to be a 6 or 7 marginal win player, and with a little luck, better than that.  I would be much more inclined to make such a deal if the Red Sox were sending along at least a few million of Manny's salary too, though.

My conservative estimate is that Barry and Manny together are worth about 12 WARP, and that counts defense.  It is entirely possible that Manny and Barry will be better than that because it is likely that both will be healthier this year.  

12 Wins is a big deal.  BPro sets replacement level at a .351 winning percentage, so an entire team of replacement-level players would win 57 games.  If two players alone can get you to 69 wins, then the other 6 positions only need to average about 3 WARP apiece to get you to 87 wins.  That isn't that difficult.  And although the positive WARP players also have to make up for the negative ones, and the zeroes like Feliz, this team shouldn't have a ton of negatives because Sabean is putting together a deeper team than we have seen from the Giants in a long time.

That doesn't mean that the Giants would be any kind of great team, but the way the NL has been lately, that certainly would get you into the playoffs.  And this team has the potential to have good pitching.  The youngsters will get better, and you can get a career year from anyone.  It would also depend on who replaces Lowry (or whomever else is traded), and it would require a little luck, but a team with Barry and Manny as the hitting backbone definitely has the potential of being pretty good.

by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Dec 5, 2006 10:10 PM PST reply actions  

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