So much for the slow news days....
Seven years. Insane. While a list of comparable pitchers from Baseballs Reference and Prospectus isn't perfect, you have to be worried that there aren't too many pitchers on the lists who were still effective at 35. Or 34. Or, you know, 33, 32, and 31. That isn't going to be some quirk particular to just Zito's comps; that's going to be true of any pitcher. Seven years to any pitcher - Johan Santana, right now, for example - is insane.
I mean, that's Antwan Jamison money. Insane.
It's hard not to be cynical. This was done for the fan who calls KNBR and wants the Giants to trade draft picks for Miguel Cabrera. This was done to ward off criticism.
When I think about this contract, though, the bile doesn't rise to the back of my throat because of 2007. They could have paid him $300M this season for all I cared. The Giants were done for the offseason. That's where the It's Not My Money theory comes into play. Heck, that's great news for 2007. Jamey Wright, he's not.
But It's Not My Money can only go so far. If Zito is stinking up the joint or injured in 2012 and taking up 15% of the payroll, that's everybody's problem. And that's what a century of baseball history is telling us is going to happen. There's probably a one-in-ten chance that Zito enjoys the sustained success that Tom Glavine did through his 30s.
I should have had one of these posts in the can like some ghoulish obituary writer because my head is swimming with a million different impulses. For the long-term, I hate the move. For the short-term, I love it. I'm glad it isn't Carlos Lee. Really, really, really glad. Man, this is insane.
Insane. Seven years. Insane.
Hooray. Booo. Good-not-great is the new great. I'll love this deal until I hate it.
Irrational reason for optimism comment starter: I was convinced the Edgardo Alfonzo deal was perfect, and I thought the Omar Vizquel deal was going to be a disaster. Kevin Brown and Mike Hampton were eventually traded. Hey, are those straws? Lemme just grasp at those for a while.
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154 comments
Comments
Re: So much for the slow news days....
J/K. Still, it's exciting, if nothing else. Grant, I assure you, the deal was done to make the Giants better, KNBR listeners notwithstanding. You may well be right about the outcome, but at least now we have a chance to find out.
by hairball on
Dec 28, 2006 10:22 AM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
"Oh , yeah...Zito????? Holy smokes!!!!!!!!!!"
I FLEW here...
The contract years ARE nuts. Even I know this.
But this ain't "Brewster's Millions"...Brian's heart's in the right place.
Let's f'ing GO GIANTS!
by victor frankenstein on
Dec 28, 2006 7:47 PM PST
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2007 Giants Slogan:
by Kitspool on
Dec 28, 2006 10:25 AM PST
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Re: 2007 Giants Slogan:
by achiappanza on
Dec 28, 2006 1:01 PM PST
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Re: Actually
All right, hire him as Chico Esquela for the campaign!
by achiappanza on
Dec 28, 2006 4:25 PM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
by oldrips on
Dec 28, 2006 10:26 AM PST
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So much for the slow news days....
by Kent on
Dec 28, 2006 10:27 AM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
by MeSoKrabby on
Dec 28, 2006 10:27 AM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
by Moderation on
Dec 28, 2006 10:27 AM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
The point being that if the contract turn out to be Hampton-bad, the Giants may end up eating a big chunk of it as part of unloading him. Such is the way of bad contracts.
I don't expect it will turn out Hampton-bad, but it is always a possibility.
this town thinks you're a bastard - Elvis Costello
by EliminateMe on
Dec 28, 2006 11:07 AM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
by stevieg on
Dec 28, 2006 10:28 AM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
by hairball on
Dec 28, 2006 10:34 AM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
by nostocksjustbonds on
Dec 28, 2006 10:41 AM PST
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*hands the paper bag covered bottle over to you*
by WalrusMan on
Dec 28, 2006 10:28 AM PST
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Seriously though..
I just looked at his salary information over his career..his estimated total salary is $18,035,000. He'll double that in a year with us.
by WalrusMan on
Dec 28, 2006 10:36 AM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
so much for us not negotiating with scott boras.
by wjackalope on
Dec 28, 2006 10:37 AM PST
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Payroll
by stevieg on
Dec 28, 2006 10:39 AM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
by out machine on
Dec 28, 2006 10:39 AM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
Moral of the story, my old job sucked and my new job does not suck. I hope Zito refrains from sucking too.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on
Dec 28, 2006 10:40 AM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
by Kitspool on
Dec 28, 2006 10:47 AM PST
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No, but
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on
Dec 28, 2006 10:53 AM PST
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Do you throw lefty?
by Pants Man on
Dec 28, 2006 10:55 AM PST
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Re: Do you throw lefty?
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on
Dec 28, 2006 11:00 AM PST
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CONGRATS on the better gig, Baron!!
by Mayor of 311 on
Dec 28, 2006 3:22 PM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
Nobody knows what's going to happen five years from now. To commit that kind of money to Zito that far in the future is crazy.
However, let's treat this like that time we were 20 years old and just stepping out into the world: Ride it, baby! We don't know when we might crash into a drudge-a-licious 9-5 or 7-6 or 5-10 job, so go out to bars and make passes at complete strangers! Drive your Chevy to the levy! Make a banner that says "Zitonians Live Here!" Eat nothing but sushi and Alize for three straight days!
I know the analogy is strained, but I just feel there's plenty of upside to this deal for us fans.
by David Arnott on
Dec 28, 2006 10:44 AM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
by howtheyscored on
Dec 28, 2006 10:46 AM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
by Chulk on
Dec 28, 2006 10:47 AM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
by someguynamedg on
Dec 28, 2006 10:55 AM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
We all know about the bad. How about the good?
- Zito is going to the NL from the AL, so it's a good bet that his ERA will drop by a good .4 or so.
- He will never give up a HR to a LHH in AT&T
- He is only 28, so we are looking at his true talent level and probably not a decline (yet)
- He gets to pitch to pitchers, which will help his K rate and BB rate
- He is going to a league where the hitters don't know him, which should help out of the gate
- He eats a lot of innings, and well
- It takes pressure off of the young pitching
- It pushes everyone back a spot, so the worst pitcher on the team is now a better pitcher than before, especially in the rotation
- No Bruce Chen, Russ Ortiz, Damien Moss, et al in the rotation
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on
Dec 28, 2006 10:58 AM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on
Dec 28, 2006 10:59 AM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
by hairball on
Dec 28, 2006 11:31 AM PST
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thank you for that
by wjackalope on
Dec 28, 2006 11:05 AM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
That Ortiz nonsense was making me sick.
by victor frankenstein on
Dec 28, 2006 7:53 PM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
by fugazism on
Dec 28, 2006 11:02 AM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
by Blake on
Dec 28, 2006 11:03 AM PST
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Clearly worth it.
by WalrusMan on
Dec 28, 2006 11:10 AM PST
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Re: Clearly worth it.
Probably not. I'm getting awfully pessimistic in my old age...
by Blake on
Dec 28, 2006 11:13 AM PST
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Re: Clearly worth it.
C'mon. This doesn't make sense until the season is underway. Who would've picked the Tigers?
by hairball on
Dec 28, 2006 11:40 AM PST
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Who?
http://www.mccoveychronicles.com/story/2006/3/20/163724/507
by WalrusMan on
Dec 28, 2006 3:28 PM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
by taliesin on
Dec 28, 2006 1:08 PM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
by Pants Man on
Dec 28, 2006 1:11 PM PST
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On The Five - Year Grace Period...Thing...
by victor frankenstein on
Dec 28, 2006 7:57 PM PST
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What about this?
by MeSoKrabby on
Dec 28, 2006 11:06 AM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
by sf11 on
Dec 28, 2006 11:09 AM PST
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What do you mean by that?
by WalrusMan on
Dec 28, 2006 11:13 AM PST
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Re: What do you mean by that?
by lunaticfringe1 on
Dec 28, 2006 11:23 AM PST
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Re: What do you mean by that?
by nostocksjustbonds on
Dec 28, 2006 11:30 AM PST
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Re: What do you mean by that?
by lunaticfringe1 on
Dec 28, 2006 11:44 AM PST
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Re: What do you mean by that?
by someguynamedg on
Dec 28, 2006 11:23 AM PST
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Re: What do you mean by that?
by tk on
Dec 28, 2006 12:15 PM PST
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Re: What do you mean by that?
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on
Dec 28, 2006 12:24 PM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
With Cain and Lincecum on the way, in 3-4 years, Zito could be our 3rd best pitcher, which may not be a bad thing.
by nostocksjustbonds on
Dec 28, 2006 12:56 PM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
"It takes a lot of pressure off two people, which I think is very important," Giants first baseman and outfielder Mark Sweeney said. "Matt Cain is one of them. Taking Jason Schmidt's spot is asking a lot. I think that would be pushing it a little bit, even though he's going to be our No. 1 for years and I think the world of him. And also Matt Morris, who is going to bounce back. He put a lot on his shoulders.
"I think it does a lot of that. It adds to the flexibility of our staff, too. Having Noah Lowry third or fourth is pretty good."
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2710389
by Pants Man on
Dec 28, 2006 1:08 PM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
by Stoned Slacker on
Dec 28, 2006 11:12 AM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
by MeSoKrabby on
Dec 28, 2006 11:28 AM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
Nothing less.
by WalrusMan on
Dec 28, 2006 11:31 AM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
by PacBellBoozer on
Dec 28, 2006 1:44 PM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
by reeky on
Dec 28, 2006 3:52 PM PST
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Unfortunately,
by nostocksjustbonds on
Dec 28, 2006 11:20 AM PST
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Re: Unfortunately,
-D
by dw4848 on
Dec 28, 2006 11:56 AM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
by someguynamedg on
Dec 28, 2006 11:23 AM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
On the plus side, Zito automatically becomes our best guitar player on the team. Also, did you know that his uncle is THE Patrick Duffy? Bobby Ewing in the house!
by lunaticfringe1 on
Dec 28, 2006 11:28 AM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
by MeSoKrabby on
Dec 28, 2006 11:30 AM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
by Barry Zito on
Dec 28, 2006 11:34 AM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
by groug on
Dec 28, 2006 1:38 PM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
by PacBellBoozer on
Dec 28, 2006 1:49 PM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
by Fog City Blues on
Dec 28, 2006 2:00 PM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
by nostocksjustbonds on
Dec 28, 2006 11:37 AM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on
Dec 28, 2006 11:51 AM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
this town thinks you're a bastard - Elvis Costello
by EliminateMe on
Dec 28, 2006 12:01 PM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
Underwear puns. Ha.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on
Dec 28, 2006 12:26 PM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
by PacBellBoozer on
Dec 28, 2006 1:51 PM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on
Dec 28, 2006 2:06 PM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
Frandsen: "Oh sure, I played some in the minors..."
this town thinks you're a bastard - Elvis Costello
by EliminateMe on
Dec 28, 2006 12:00 PM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
by victor frankenstein on
Dec 28, 2006 8:02 PM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
by Blake on
Dec 28, 2006 11:33 AM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
by Natto on
Dec 28, 2006 11:34 AM PST
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He can't hit worth a lick!
In all seriousness, the dude does have an exemplary medical history. He needs to stay healthy and productive for at least the first 6 years. Otherwise, the ownership should take the money and pay off the park twice as fast.
by lunaticfringe1 on
Dec 28, 2006 11:36 AM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
by GiantQuacker on
Dec 28, 2006 11:42 AM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
Me not like 7 years.
Me not like 18 million per year.
Me hope Zito better than b4.
by Poe on
Dec 28, 2006 11:44 AM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
by attinger on
Dec 28, 2006 11:46 AM PST
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Thats pretty much exactly how I feel
Who's to say that this won'e be the best long-term contract signed in this redic. off season? No one, so I prefer to believe it will be.
I've been told by others I'm entirely too optimistic about sports, but I really do go into every year thinking we've got a chance. And yes, I've rooted for/followed the Giants for the last 20 yrs, so maybe that takes away from my credibility...but so be it!
Go Zito, go Giants
by Andy from DC on
Dec 28, 2006 12:35 PM PST
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Re: Thats pretty much exactly how I feel
Just think: 4 years into the contract, it is highly likely that not one current starting position player will still be on the team, let alone starting (some will be gone next year even). Bonds, Durham, Vizquel, Roberts, Winn, Klesko, Aurilia, Feliz, Molina - all gone. We'll have entirely different things to worry about.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on
Dec 28, 2006 12:40 PM PST
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Feliz will still be around
Skeptics are invited to note that Feliz was first called up the same season PBP opened and has been on the roster ever since.
But yeah, the rest of those guys are probably gone.
this town thinks you're a bastard - Elvis Costello
by EliminateMe on
Dec 28, 2006 1:42 PM PST
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Re: Feliz will still be around
by hairball on
Dec 28, 2006 1:54 PM PST
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NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
7 YEARS plus an option PLUS a no trade clause. I think I'm going to throw up.
by lunaticfringe1 on
Dec 28, 2006 11:48 AM PST
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Re: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Cover up.
Attinger...please remain seated. Thank you.
by victor frankenstein on
Dec 28, 2006 8:12 PM PST
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Re: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by Birdman on
Dec 29, 2006 7:32 AM PST
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not my money
by SFfaninNYC on
Dec 28, 2006 12:03 PM PST
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Re: not my money
by Roger on
Dec 28, 2006 12:08 PM PST
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Slow starter
Zito's career numbers in April: 11-15, 5.04, 1.392 WHIP
Zito's career numbers after April: 91-48, 3.31, 1.227 WHIP
That second guy is pretty damn impressive... I hope we get him for at least three or four years!
April has been a key reason for Zito's "down" years (2004 and 2006).
April 2004: 6.83 ERA
Rest of 2004: 4.11 ERA
April 2006: 5.93 ERA
Rest of 2006: 3.53 ERA
A rocky start seems almost inevitable... I predict a lot of freaking out about this deal during the first month of the season.
by Pants Man on
Dec 28, 2006 12:13 PM PST
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Re: Slow starter
by Roger on
Dec 28, 2006 12:20 PM PST
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Re: Slow starter
by achiappanza on
Dec 28, 2006 1:21 PM PST
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also
Matheny and Worrell?
Ortmeier?
Sweeney?
by irwin on
Dec 28, 2006 12:20 PM PST
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Re: also
The Sweeney for middle reliever trade will come soon, I bet. Either that or Sweeney for LHH backup catcher. Or Sweeney for second- or third-tier prospect. At any rate, he is useful, cheap, and tradeable.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on
Dec 28, 2006 12:36 PM PST
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Re: also
They then either go with Knoedler or find a vet to backup Molina
by irwin on
Dec 28, 2006 1:42 PM PST
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Re: also
And if we want to turn Sweeney into something even marginally useful, we'll have to get creative. No one offered Sweeney more than a million per year following his career year in 2005, so I don't expect he has much value after his mediocre 2006. Klesko (career EqA of .300) got $1.75M, Stairs (.291) got a minor league deal, and there hasn't been much interest in Burnitz (.277) or Finley (.273). If these aging lefties aren't wanted, I don't think teams will be lining up for Sweeney (.266). Could we find someone to take on his modest contract? Probably. Could we find someone to give up something of value for this right? I sincerely doubt it.
by Pants Man on
Dec 28, 2006 2:14 PM PST
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they are considering Mark Loretta!
But seriously, I do think Sweeney has slightly more preceived value the other guys you mentioned because of his recent performance. But no, I agree that he wouldn't fetch much by himself.
by irwin on
Dec 28, 2006 2:47 PM PST
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Re: also
by lunaticfringe1 on
Dec 28, 2006 12:41 PM PST
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Re: also
Niekro and Ellison are out of options and don't seem to fit into the team's plans, but it's always nice to have plenty of depth in the spring when you have an old and creaky roster. I would lose Knoedler and Munter for the time being, and not lose any sleep over either of them.
by Pants Man on
Dec 28, 2006 1:03 PM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
by Steve on
Dec 28, 2006 12:23 PM PST
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I agree with the opening of the MLB.com article...
"The Giants' rotation has just got better."
this town thinks you're a bastard - Elvis Costello
by EliminateMe on
Dec 28, 2006 12:24 PM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
First of all the Giants will only spend about 29 million on their rotation next year with 3 lefties, possibly 3 200 innings guys and two guys with legit Cy Young Potential. Better bang for your buck than any other NL rotation with the possible exception of the Marlins.
Secondly the Giants cannot afford to look like losers we needed a big name signing so we look like an attractive destination otherwise we will end up like the Royals or Detroit 3-4 years ago when you have to overpay for ALL of your free agents. Furthermore this signing will help establish a relationship with Boras that might bring other quality free agents our way.
Thirdly with young pitchers like Cain Lowry Sanchez and Lincecum we can afford to invest a larger amount of money in one pitcher.
Finally since Zito will be pitching in the NL West he will be making almost 2/3 of his starts in pitcher's parks SF 15-17 starts SD 2 starts LA 2 starts.
Overall this is a very good signing and when Zito out pitches Schmidt by a lot it will look even better. Also I bet a good chunk of this money will be deferred and that money I believe comes out of a different budget so this will have less of a payroll impact than it appears.
by cksf on
Dec 28, 2006 12:48 PM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
Hopefully this will turn out to be a good acquisition even years from now.
by ololo3 on
Dec 28, 2006 1:08 PM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
by oldrips on
Dec 28, 2006 1:30 PM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on
Dec 28, 2006 1:40 PM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on
Dec 28, 2006 1:50 PM PST
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[rimshot]
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on
Dec 28, 2006 2:08 PM PST
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Re: [rimshot]
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on
Dec 28, 2006 2:27 PM PST
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Oh but I did
So what are you: Team Pam or Team Karen? Or do you just want them to make out like many of my friends do?
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on
Dec 28, 2006 3:16 PM PST
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Re: Oh but I did
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on
Dec 28, 2006 3:56 PM PST
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Re: Oh but I did
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on
Dec 28, 2006 4:02 PM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
by Roger on
Dec 28, 2006 1:59 PM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
He's delaying the rebuilding process in order to keep his job. I'm on to you, Sabes.
by Punch Rockgroin on
Dec 28, 2006 1:12 PM PST
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Overbid?
Still, the Rangers made it fairly clear they weren't going to go higher than 6 years/$88 million and the Mets were offering more money but a shorter contract (somethling like 5 years/$75 million). Who knows what Boras said to them -- and this is simplifying how the negotiations probably went -- but apparently the Giants outbid the closest team by $38 million.
Did they not essentially end up bidding against themselves? It's a classic Sabean trait, and not a good one.
by Kitspool on
Dec 28, 2006 1:30 PM PST
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Re: Overbid?
by nostocksjustbonds on
Dec 28, 2006 1:57 PM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
Zito, 2006
Home ERA: 4.71
Road ERA: 2.97
That is for 17 road starts and 17 home starts, with the IP very close (112 to 109).
Why? I am not sure. But he did give up 18 HR at home and 9 HR on the road.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on
Dec 28, 2006 1:33 PM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
Luck? Park? I'm not sure.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on
Dec 28, 2006 1:36 PM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
by irwin on
Dec 28, 2006 1:43 PM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
by taliesin on
Dec 28, 2006 7:15 PM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
My buddy's questions, which I think are the only really pertinent ones: How does this make the team better? Do you really think the Giants can win the World Series now?
First, we have no idea what will happen four years from now. I'm confident in believing that Zito will be very good for the next two seasons, and, if pushed, could be cautiously optimistic about three or even four seasons. As others have pointed out, the "beauty" of a longass deal like this one is that the team will be completely remade within the span of the contract, with Zito as the centerpiece; no more Feliz, Omar, Bonds, Durham, or Winn by the third(?) year, so it'll be a completely different team built around #s 75 and 43. The only thing that could screw it up is if he craters. It's a distinct possibility, but even if he does, so what? That means that we'll be a 90 million dollar team that should be 110 million. Should Zito be the next Mike Hampton, it's reasonable to guess our payroll will still be ahead of the Rockies, DBacks, and Padres, and still behind the Dodgers... basically how it is now. So, in the murky future, I choose to see the downside as more of a two foot high speed bump than a brick wall.
For now, the team is definitely better. I know it's technically fallacious to compare projections for the current year to last year, but:
The offense won't be as good, since all the additions won't make up for a declining Bonds and Durham, and a departed Alou.
The fielding will improve or stay the same, despite the replacement at 1B and the aging middle infield (which I don't think will see that much of a fielding decline, if at all), the outfield gets better with two CFs in the deep parts of the park. Feliz returns with his GG-caliber D.
Zito=Schmidt
Cain gets better
Morris's production catches up to his peripherals
Lowry maintains
5th starter improves due to lack of Jamey Wright
Now compare to the rest of the division: Our rotation beats the Rox and DBacks easily (even with a healthy Webb all year). The Dodgers' top three in the rotation are better when healthy, but with Schmidt (groin, etc), Penny (arm, conditioning), and Lowe (effort, concentration) all potentially problems, and the back end not as good as the Giants' back end (Wolf, coming off surgery, and Billingsley vs. Lowry, stagnating, and Linsanchennesorreia), it's either a wash or in favor of the Giants, depending on how you're feeling at the moment. The Padres' rotation has the best 1-2 in the division (the league?) with Peavy/Young, but Clay Hensley should be in the bullpen, and Bud Black will take every opportunity not to use a fifth starter this year. So Pads/Dods/GMen are now even, pitching-wise, all three of them better than just about any other team in the league, save perhaps the Mets once Pedro returns, or the Fish if the youngsters continue their improbable group success. Let's say the hitting works out well enough--I think a reasonable estimation of "pretty good year for this team" is seventh best in the league in EqA--and the pitching plays out as I've laid out, then we've got a great shot at making the playoffs.
That leads to the second question. Once in the playoffs, we're the team no one wants to face because of our 2-righty-2-lefty rotation and nasty righty-righty-lefty Lincecum-Wilson-Sanchez bullpen, plus a closer we acquired at the deadline, and, as everyone should know by now, the playoffs are like playing Twister, in that, yeah, there are things you can do to help your chances of winning, but it's still mostly luck, and if you screw up you REALLY look bad. But with a 1-2 with Zito and Cain's upside, I'd love our chances if we make the playoffs this year and next.
I may just be irrationally optimistic at the moment, but I think our crappy division makes the move a little more palatable, especially in the short term.
by David Arnott on
Dec 28, 2006 1:59 PM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
by nostocksjustbonds on
Dec 28, 2006 2:23 PM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
by someguynamedg on
Dec 28, 2006 2:36 PM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
by nostocksjustbonds on
Dec 28, 2006 3:03 PM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
Remember the wise words of Yogi Berra: "90% of this game is half mental".
this town thinks you're a bastard - Elvis Costello
by EliminateMe on
Dec 28, 2006 4:13 PM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
by capnk on
Dec 28, 2006 10:34 PM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
"NEYER: The only thing this deal does is make the Giants look ridiculous. Granted, Zito's ERA will get a boost from the National League and the Giants' home ballpark. And this one isn't as dumb as the Mike Hampton deal with the Rockies. But based on the facts at hand, this looks to me like one of the dumber free-agent signings ever. Zito just isn't very good. And if he's worth $18 million per season, Santana's worth $25 million."
Me, I'm just a fan, not a Sabermetrician, so I'm pretty confused as to how anyone could justify saying Zito "just isn't very good." Seems like overstatement is an overused rhetorical technique among certain stats-centric types -- perhaps as a vestige of a time when their opinions were regarded as bizarre.
As for the salary and length-of-contract objections, I'd be curious to see some historical data on the last decade's increase in salaries among the highest paid 10% and among the highest paid 50% of MLB players. I have to assume that Sabean et al. see Zito as a top 10% player in terms of performance right now and project him as above-average through the life of this contract. I'd guess that if they're right (big "if"), that $18 million average will seem like a perfectly appropriate salary.
by sularz on
Dec 28, 2006 2:52 PM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
by JakeS on
Dec 28, 2006 3:04 PM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
No, it isn't great. No, he may not keep that up. No, he may not be worth $18m per. But he is still quite a good pitcher.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on
Dec 28, 2006 3:14 PM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
by JakeS on
Dec 28, 2006 3:22 PM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
by hairball on
Dec 28, 2006 3:58 PM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
by MeSoKrabby on
Dec 28, 2006 3:52 PM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
by JakeS on
Dec 28, 2006 3:03 PM PST
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Dude...
by Kitspool on
Dec 28, 2006 3:08 PM PST
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Re: Dude...
by JakeS on
Dec 28, 2006 3:10 PM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
by APGiantsFan on
Dec 28, 2006 3:14 PM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
by JakeS on
Dec 28, 2006 3:23 PM PST
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Not true, there is one.
Article on greatest seasons ever:
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=5777
by irwin on
Dec 28, 2006 3:41 PM PST
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Re: Not true, there is one.
by JakeS on
Dec 28, 2006 3:49 PM PST
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Re: Not true, there is one.
by hairball on
Dec 28, 2006 4:01 PM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
by JakeS on
Dec 28, 2006 3:30 PM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
by oldrips on
Dec 28, 2006 4:11 PM PST
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star power
by VidaWantsYourCar on
Dec 28, 2006 3:31 PM PST
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Re: star power
People wait for intimidators to win, and for craftsmen to lose. They simply don't get it.
Zito is a craftsman.
by hairball on
Dec 28, 2006 4:03 PM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
"I think it's a very, very good fit," Joe Zito said. "Truly, I am respectful of the owners who came forward and would believe in Barry to such a degree that they would go this far. I am profoundly respectful of that. He is truly happy."
Question: What is the word "respectful" a euphemism for in this case? "f'ing amazed"? "ga-ga"? "happy as a pig in shit"?
by reeky on
Dec 28, 2006 4:13 PM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
by drysdalecousin on
Dec 28, 2006 4:15 PM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
this town thinks you're a bastard - Elvis Costello
by EliminateMe on
Dec 28, 2006 4:20 PM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
We definitely got the better end of that exchange...
this town thinks you're a bastard - Elvis Costello
by EliminateMe on
Dec 28, 2006 4:20 PM PST
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My Two Cents
OTOH, does it make us a better team today than we were yesterday? You bet it does!
My brain says this is a bad, bad deal. The fan in me says "live for the moment! Who cares about the future? It ain't my money!"
BTW. How much is it going to take to sign Johan Freaking Santana when his turn comes?
by DrBGiantsfan on
Dec 28, 2006 6:12 PM PST
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Re: My Two Cents
by Sayhey on
Dec 28, 2006 6:53 PM PST
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Re: My Two Cents
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on
Dec 28, 2006 7:56 PM PST
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Re: So much for the slow news days....
by drysdalecousin on
Dec 28, 2006 8:14 PM PST
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