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Around SBN: Spencer Hall's Sports Meme Power Rankings

Prospectin'....

by Grant on Dec 27, 2006 12:52 PM PST in News Comment 69 comments

The Giants are next on the Baseball Prospectus schedule of top-ten prospect writeups, which should be interesting. Kevin Goldstein is about the best thing to happen to Baseball Prospectus since, well, ever. He has a nice mix of statistical and scouting reporting, and that's much, much better than the numbers orthodoxy of past prospect lists from BP. This isn't a paid promotion, though I have worked it out to where if you sign up for a year at Baseball Prospectus, you receive a free subscription to McCovey Chronicles. That kind of value can't even be expressed in mathematical terms.

I put off doing a top-ten list last year because I don't know what I'm talking about. After getting excited about prospects like Julian Benevidez and ignoring players like Kevin Correia and Noah Lowry until they were halfway through a successful campaign in the majors, it's clear that my prognostications are even worse than what should be expected. I wanted to e-mail scouting directors and minor league front office folks and try to get some support for my opinions on a few players. But that involved effort. So here we are.

It's still a goal of mine, but the first step would be to collect some top-ten lists from the prospect mavens right now for a community opinion. My off-the-cuff top ten:

Tim Lincecum
Jonathan Sanchez
Angel Villalona
Marcus Sanders
Eddy Martinez-Esteve
Nate Schierholtz
Kevin Frandsen
Fred Lewis
Brian Wilson
Billy Sadler

I'm not wild about ranking Villalona so high before he plays a professional inning, but the competition is still there. Sanders stays even after the injury, and he'd rank that high on my list even if he were a centerfielder instead of a shortstop. My first prospect list without Travis Ishikawa makes me a sad panda.

Again, I'm an idiot when it comes to prospects. I have the same sources as everyone else - Baseball America, Kevin Goldstein, John Sickels, the great posters here, and a rudimentary understanding of stats - so there isn't any great insight to be found from my list. Just throwing it out there to get some contrary opinions....

0 recs | Comment 69 comments

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Comments

Re: Prospectin'....

I think Sadler is going to be the surprise/sleeper prospect on the list.

"I want to dip my balls in it." Louie

by MeSoKrabby on Dec 27, 2006 12:58 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Not Final

I'm currently working on my list. This is my preliminary top 10 for what it's worth:

Tim Lincecum
Big V
The Kev
Jonathan Sanchez
Nate Schierholtz
Fred Lewis
Eddy Martinez-Esteve
Emmanuel Burriss
Clayton Tanner
Brian Wilson
Bill Sadler
Marcus Sanders. Sanders could move up 2 or 3 places, but definitely not top10. He's got to prove he can 1. stay healthy, 2. field a position, and 3. hit for average and get on base at higher levels. In my mind, Burriss and Schoop have both moved ahead of him in the SS depth chart. He would still be valuable as a 2B. His value as a CF plummets.

Eddy M-E would be in the same boat except, in my mind, he hit reasonably well while he was in CT, a tough, tough place to hit and is two levels higher than Sanders highest successful level.

Putting Big V at #2 is more of a commentary on how weak I think our system is right now than an endorsement of Villalona. True, he hasn't played a pro game yet, but assuming the Giants knew what they were doing when they dropped $2M on him(I know, it's a dubious assumption at best), and with Scott Boras throwing dust in the air, I'm going to make the additional assumption that where there's smoke there's fire.

I've got to think that you have basically the same thought to rank Big V #3. I guess I'm just not quite as enthusiastic about Sanchez as you.

by DrBGiantsfan on Dec 27, 2006 1:26 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Not Final

I agree with what you say about Villalona, but don't you think Sanchez needs to rank ahead of him? And ahead of Frandsen based on upside?

by Evan on Dec 27, 2006 2:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Sanchez

I am cautiously optimistic about Sanchez. I just have reservations about his size, command, and delivery which I'm not at all wild about.

I like The Kevster because I think he is ready now(even if the Giants aren't going to let him prove it), he's a gamer. The only reservation is power which you don't absolutely have to have as a middle infielder.

I agree it's a close call.

by DrBGiantsfan on Dec 27, 2006 3:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Not Final

I get the worries/criticisms of Sanders, but Schoop and Burriss ahead of him? Especially Schoop? If you're talking about performance at a higher level, it would seem that those two are hardly poster boys. Schoop in particular had only two good months out of three while repeating the lowest level of the American minor league system.

by BruteSentiment on Dec 28, 2006 12:52 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Not Final

With the quality of the Giants' system, it makes sense to me to go with Sharlon Schoop, if only because I really like his name.

by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Dec 28, 2006 1:18 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Sharlon Schoop

I didn't say I would rank Schoop ahead of Sanders as an overall prospect, just ahead of him at SS. I haven't seen Schoop play. He did commit a few errors this last summer, but BA has named him as the organizations best defensive SS with comparisons to Omar on at least two seperate occasions. That alone puts him in the running. His hitting improved noticeably last summer albeit at a low level of play. 2007 needs to be a breakout year for him at some level. I'm thinking Augusta. Right now, I've got to rate him at least even with a guy who has been close to disastrous on D at SS, bombed at the plate last season and seems to have intractable injury problems.

by DrBGiantsfan on Dec 28, 2006 7:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Sharlon Schoop

He's said to have power potential but I'm skeptical about that. He's a small middle infielder, I don't have much hopes for power out of that frame. However, he's 19, still a growing kid. If the organization is serious about developing his power potential he can get on a weight program to bulk up and work on his hitting and maybe I'll be proven wrong. For once, I hope I am proven wrong.

Read SFDugout. It'll make you a better person.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 28, 2006 9:26 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Sharlon Schoop

Hey, look at it this way, he's bigger than Ray Durham. Just keep repeating: power is the last tool to develop, power is the last tool to develop...

by Roger on Dec 28, 2006 9:32 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Sharlon Schoop

I dunno, I think RayRay's butt equals one Schoop. Not that there's anything wrong with junk in ze trunk. I'm just saying.

Read SFDugout. It'll make you a better person.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 28, 2006 9:41 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not sure...

I don't follow the prospects as much but here's what I can see from what I've heard.

Lincecum
Sanchez
Villalona
Frandsen
Wilson
Schierholtz
Lewis
Sadler
Martinez Esteve

All others I don't really know. Pretty sad though when your #1 position prospect hasn't played a single inning of professional baseball.

Here's to a good 2007. Or 2008. Or 2009. Or 2010. Or...

by WalrusMan on Dec 27, 2006 1:36 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Is this based on potential or actual performance?

Lots of teams have dropped "bad" money on high picks and international players. Let these kids earn their rankings based on performance and not potential.

Potential can get you drafted high or signed at a young age. Potential can get GMs fired. Perrformance can help you win more than potential.

by wilriv21 on Dec 27, 2006 2:43 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Travis Lee

I agree and when I do this list--largely groping in the dark because I am still a n00b when it comes to prospects--I'll take that into consideration. Alls I have to say here is: Travis Lee. Thank you and goodnight.

Read SFDugout. It'll make you a better person.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 27, 2006 2:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Travis Lee

SDSU, baby!

"I want to dip my balls in it." Louie

by MeSoKrabby on Dec 27, 2006 3:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Potential vs Upside

When you are rating prospects, you have to take both factors into consideration. Big V shouldn't rank even in the top 10 of a good farm system. We don't have a good farm system right now.

by DrBGiantsfan on Dec 27, 2006 3:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

In ANY farm system

Has the Dominican Diaper Dandy even been taught how to lace up his shoes yet? I don't care about Boras wanted him. I don't care SF gave him a huge bonus. Has the kid even had a couple of hits yet off someone other than women's softball team at Sacred Heart of San Cristobal? C'mon, lets be objective here.

Let him at least play in the lowest, darkest and deepest rung of minor league ball before any anointment. Whatever happened to people earning their way up the ladder? Heck, I bet nobody will have Horwitz rated but he has won a couple of batting titles and hit around .280 in AA. He has earned much more than this kid, Sanders etc. And please no more Whitaker on any lists.

by wilriv21 on Dec 27, 2006 4:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Potential

The thing with Villalona is that you have to either have him in your top 5 or not list him at all. Its all about value and who will make a greater impact for the big club eventually. There has to be some projecting involved, just like there is with Lincecum, who hasn't pitched above A ball and is still far from a done deal as a major leaguer.

Potential just has to be a big part of the equation. I take Villalona every day of the week over guys like Shierholtz, Lewis, Sanders and twice on Sunday. I have to believe most GMs would too, which is why he ranks higher, having played professionally yet or not. I can see the argument for Sanchez, Frandsen and even Wilson, who have already arrived and should impact the team now with added potential going forward.

Uribe to Thompson to Clark... never forget.

by Birdman on Dec 27, 2006 7:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Potential vs Production

I do understand that there is high praise for the kid. I hope he is the second coming of Mike Schmidt. All I ask is that he play some pro ball before being rated so high. These list are highly dynamic and with a solid performance a player can rise rapidly. Let the kid play in instructional league, DSL heck even in low A before we rate him.

Lincecum has come a long way rapidly. He excelled in Hi A and in playoffs. I am much more comfortable with his ranking because he has earned his praise because of production. Once Villalona starts raking then start ranking.

by wilriv21 on Dec 27, 2006 7:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Potential vs Production

If I'm not mistaken, he did report to the IL this fall. But nonetheless, prospect lists are based on scouting, potential, and projection. As I recall BA has gotten flak over the years for listing people like Stephen Drew, Justin Upton, and I think Alex Rodriguez very high in their prospect lists before they ever played in a single pro game, and their reply(which I agreed with) was that these players scouting reports justified the rankings. Now I've never actually read a 3rd party scouting report on Villalona, so I can't comment very intelligently, but the fact is he's under contract in the system, he's now a pro, and his presence has to be accounted for in some way in a system as lacking in high ceiling position prospects as ours is.

by Roger on Dec 28, 2006 9:07 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Once a top 10 prospect always a top 10 prospect?

Ok, so based on based on scouting, potential, and projection a player can get on a top prospects list.

How does he maintain there if he does not perform?

He might still have the same potential and projection but is not producing. Happens each and every year. Big bucks paid, lots of resources including man hours spent. Scouts and organizations also have an ego and often will not admit they misjudged talent or desire.

At some point a player must perform or they will not be considered a prospect.

by wilriv21 on Dec 28, 2006 4:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Performance vs Potential

That's true, but at least Big V hasn't failed at anything yet. That's more than you can say for most of our more established prospects.

by DrBGiantsfan on Dec 28, 2006 4:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Where has Horwitz failed?

and please no Vorp, eqa, espn, FALN TNA just strict scouting, potential and production

by wilriv21 on Dec 28, 2006 6:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Where has Horwitz failed?

Brian Horwitz has, so far, failed to show any kind of HR power whatsoever and can only play LF. Do you think he's a major league prospect under those circumstances?

by DrBGiantsfan on Dec 28, 2006 6:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Where has Horwitz failed?

Think if he continues to hit MLB will find a place for him.

by wilriv21 on Dec 28, 2006 6:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Where has Horwitz failed?

Well, unless he can switch to the infield or CF(too late and never), he would have to consistently hit well over .300 in MLB to be of value. Can't say it won't happen, but very unlikely.

by DrBGiantsfan on Dec 28, 2006 7:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Potential vs Production

I disagree with WilRiv here, but I think the debate may be more about a different issue than stats vs tools. FWIW, I believe that I was someone who a few years ago put a lot of emphasis based on stats; now I find myself putting more emphasis on tools. I suppose you could argue that this is because of a general acceptance of the stars and scrubs approach preferred by many stats-heads. If there is really bench/replacement level talent freely and widely available in the minors, then the emphasis in prospect rankings should not be on who has the stats to become the next utility infielder, fourth outfielder or fifth starter; rather the emphasis should be on who has the tools to become an above average player.

But back to the definitional component of the issue. It seems the argument is at the heart of what defines a prospect. For better or worse, the conventional definition is anyone signed by an organization who has not yet surpassed a playing time threshold (130 AB or 50 IP in MLB). So Angel Villalona is a prospect in the same way that Daisuke Matsuzaka is a prospect. If someone wants to add to the definition that a prospect must have played at least one inning for a minor league in the United States, then one could do that. But I think one needs to be upfront and honest about that.

I also hear discussion whether someone as old as Jack Taschner should still be considered a prospect. I understand the concern there, but to me it seems arbitrary to start a new rule that a prospect should not be older than a certain age. My view is that to have a more meaningful conversation, you stick with the accepted definition of a prospect and rate them according to their potential.

by steve S on Dec 28, 2006 9:09 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Prospectin'....

I'm in no way a prospect maven, but I think you have to rank Frandsen and Lewis ahead of Schierholtz, Sanders, and EME. Those latter three may have more upside, but at this point they're all longshots to have any substantial major-league career.

by Evan on Dec 27, 2006 2:46 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I agree with Travis Lee

SDSU for life.

"I've got a Giant Attitude"

by The Thrill on Dec 27, 2006 4:52 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Prospectin'....

Tim Lincecum
Jonathan Sanchez
Kevin Frandsen
Nate Schierholtz
Eddy Martinez-Esteve
Emmanual Burris
Brian Wilson
Fred Lewis
Billy Sadler
Marcus Sanders

by Sinister Dick on Dec 27, 2006 5:49 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Prospectin'....

Tim Lincecum
Jonathan Sanchez
Kevin Frandsen
Angel Villalona
Brian Wilson
Eddy Martinez-Esteve
Emmanuel Burris
Billy Sadler
Fred Lewis
Clayton Tanner
Marcus Sanders
Nate Schierholtz

Uribe to Thompson to Clark... never forget.

by Birdman on Dec 27, 2006 7:15 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Prospectin'....

Brian Wilson is being pretty underrated IMO. He's got the stuff, has a great minor league track record and has been lights out in Winter ball. Gotta give some love for the guy who Sabian has basically said (as straight forward as Sabes can) would be the closer in 2007 if Benitez is traded.

Schierholtz is on life support to me. He has a gaping hole in his swing that I questioned could hold up at higher levels. His move from 3B to RF hurt, but if he can't adjust his approach he could have a real tough road ahead. His fall performance was telling.

I like Sanders a lot at 2B, but like Dr. B, can't put him in the top 10 until he survives a season productively at A ball or higher.

Uribe to Thompson to Clark... never forget.

by Birdman on Dec 27, 2006 7:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Prospectin'....

That's a little cold to Nate. For a guy with a gaping hole in his swing, reducing his K rate by around 40% while going up a level AND moving from a hitter's park to an EXTREME pitcher's park. "Life support" seems a little harsh.

"When I think of how many times the Enemy has tried to kill Gary Busey..."

by multiphasic on Dec 27, 2006 7:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Prospectin'....

You're right. Life support is a little harsh.

BTW, I'm trying to think of a movie Gary Busey hasn't successfully been killed in. Coming up blank.

Uribe to Thompson to Clark... never forget.

by Birdman on Dec 28, 2006 12:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Prospectin'....

Well, there's The Buddy Holly Sto--.....oh yeah, that ended badly for him, too.

by sularz on Dec 28, 2006 6:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Prospectin'....

Did he die in Point Break?

And Boom Goes the Dynamite

by Andy from DC on Dec 28, 2006 6:27 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Prospectin'....

Yes he did, but he made it out alive in Black Sheep with Chris Farley and David Spade.

"I want to dip my balls in it." Louie

by MeSoKrabby on Dec 28, 2006 7:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Prospectin'....

Rookie of the Year?

I've grown up a lot since before dinner, when we last talked.

by groug on Dec 28, 2006 1:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Prospectin'....

I very much disagree about Schierholtz. I don't think the hole in his swing is as gaping as some think, and I don't think his year in Connecticut was anything bad, especially as he was playing through a hand injury. I think he's got a good overall approach from what I saw in San Jose. I expect he'll have a big year in Fresno this year.

by BruteSentiment on Dec 28, 2006 1:02 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Prospectin'....

I like Grant's list pretty well. Nevertheless, I'd push Frandsen up a spot because he's so close to the majors, plays good defense at second and doesn't have to hit much to stick in the majors.

by Dan from NM on Dec 27, 2006 8:07 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Prospectin'....

I'd probably have Lewis much higher, just based on things I've read as his game came together the last season-and-a-half, and the fact that he started playing baseball full-time very late, so his age is less of a concern. He's my choice-du-jour for First Significant Position Player Produced By The System Since Bill Mueller. About Villalona, lets see how he does this year, and what the scouting reports say as they begin to roll in. Hard to get a read on Martinez-Esteve, with the constant injuries and the stories about defensive horrificness and apathy. And I'd probably have Burris in the top 10 rather than Sanders. I'll be surprised if Sanders even makes it to the majors, let alone has a significant career. Which probably means he's going to be a star.

Interesting that six of the top eight on Grant's list are hitters. Have the Giants' really improved their position-player situation that dramatically, or has the pitching in the system (beyond the Big Two) sunk down to the mediocrity that has characterized the hitting for so long?

Overall, however you tweak it - a pretty depressing top 10, which fits right in with this pretty depressing offseason.

Finding some impact players in the next draft, with picks at #10, 22, 29, 34, 51 and 60 or so, will be just critical. Not going to have that kind of opportunity again for a long long time.

by FavoriteSpring on Dec 27, 2006 9:07 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

About the hitters/pitchers...

I think the problem is the big pitching prospects that we had (Cain, Lowry, Correia, Hennessey) are all no longer prospects. All others have been traded away and now we have players such as Wilson, Sadler, etc.

Here's to a good 2007. Or 2008. Or 2009. Or 2010. Or...

by WalrusMan on Dec 27, 2006 10:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Prospectin'....

Kevin Goldstein is about the best thing to happen to Baseball Prospectus since, well, ever.

Kevin Goldstein is fantastic, I just wanted to put that in writing. No love for the SB Nation representation over at BP though Grant? ::shakes head::

by Marc Normandin on Dec 27, 2006 9:40 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Prospectin'....

Actually, I really like the player profiles. You do an excellent job of picking players who are tough to forecast.

But yeah, Kevin Goldstein rocks. One of the things that sets BP apart from other stathead outfits is the willingness to blend the best information you can get -- whether it's from scouts, analysts, PECOTA, whatever.

by Dan from NM on Dec 27, 2006 10:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Prospectin'....

Thank you, much appreciated. I try to pick guys who aren't always in the spotlight, although that's a little tougher to do in the offseason when teams spend $100 million on adequacy.

I'm very pleased with the diverse voices BP has at the site, as well as the resources they pull from. Adding Kevin Goldstein was fantastic; he's putting together a Top 100 prospect list for this year's annual, and I can't wait to get a look at it.

by Marc Normandin on Dec 28, 2006 12:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Prospectin'....

Well, you're always a SBN guy first. Womb to tomb. Sperm to worm. That's how we roll.

by Grant on Dec 28, 2006 9:14 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Prospectin'....

Here's my list as of now. I strongly hope this list looks much different in November, after our draft picks have had a chance to play for us:

Lincecum
Sanchez
Villalona
Schierholtz
Sadler
Wilson
Burriss
Frandsen
Tanner
Copeland
Romo
Sanders
EME
Velez
Hedrick

I agree with DrB on Villalona. And I agree with Brute on Schierholtz. Although I'm now skeptical about them both, I think Sanders is slightly more likely to reach the majors than EME is. Certainly EME has a higher ceiling, I just think he's less likely to reach his. I have no confidence in Lewis. I think Dan Griffin and Sergio Romo will have big years this year. Super-deep-sleeper pick: RHP Manuel Cabeza.

Waiting for Nate, Marcus, Nick, & Emmanuel

by Lyle on Dec 28, 2006 8:07 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Prospectin'....

But the more important question: is it Ben or Benj Copeland?

Read SFDugout. It'll make you a better person.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 28, 2006 8:11 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Prospectin'....

As Benj, I give him a 15% chance to reach the bigs. As Ben, I forecast a 23.3% chance. I'm going with Ben, Baron.

Waiting for Nate, Marcus, Nick, & Emmanuel

by Lyle on Dec 28, 2006 8:41 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Prospectin'....

He's listed as Benj on MILB.com and Ben everywhere else. I wonder what happened there.

Read SFDugout. It'll make you a better person.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 28, 2006 8:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Prospectin'....

It's definitely Ben.

When I talked with him, he didn't correct me when I called him that.

by BruteSentiment on Dec 28, 2006 10:32 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Prospectin'....

I'm pretty sure it is "Ben." The only place I know that listed him as "Benj" was MinorLeagueSplits.com. I presume that was a typo, which I presumably amplified by repeatedly linking to it.

I really can't see listing Sergio Romo here at all. I am mildly surprised that the name Nick Pereira has not come up at all in this thread of comments. Wasn't he a big fan favorite this past summer? At least my recollection is that I tended to be criticized for not putting him in my top ten prospects for the organization.

by steve S on Dec 28, 2006 8:55 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Prospectin'....

Where can we find the Great steve S' rankings? McCovey Prospectus.

"I want to dip my balls in it." Louie

by MeSoKrabby on Dec 28, 2006 9:02 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Prospectin'....

Pereira killed the Cal League before the All-Star break and then got called up to Fresno where he had a very pedestrian rest of the season. I like him and I am watching him closely. I'm waiting for him to make the adjustment to throw well at AAA. He had an outstanding K/BB ratio at every level before AAA, and lost that once he got to Fresno. He'd worked on his offspeed stuff since the beginning of last season and said that was the pitch he was comfortable with throwing in counts where he's behind hitters.

He'll be all right once he gets how to pitch in AAA. Then he has to figure his stuff out at the major league level and that is a discussion unto itself. But for now I think he's doing fine.

Read SFDugout. It'll make you a better person.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 28, 2006 9:07 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Prospectin'....

Steve, FWIW I have Pereira just under my list above. And I haven't changed my signature since this past season - I'm still a believer.

Waiting for Nate, Marcus, Nick, & Emmanuel

by Lyle on Dec 28, 2006 9:32 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Prospectin'....

Speaking of Pereira, do people here think he would be best served next April pitching for Fresno or Connecticut?

A couple weekends ago, I started making out a rough draft of a table of projected assignments for players in the organization. One particular noticeable hole in my mind was the Connecticut rotation. Who is going to be there? I pencilled in Lincecum and Broshuis for Connecticut, even though I would not be surprised at all if they keep Lincecum on the West Coast in April, whether in San Jose or Fresno. With Pereira, Palmer, Begg, Misch and a minor league free agent or two pencilled in for Fresno, who does that leave in Connecticut? Was there any other starter in San Jose or Augusta last year who earned himself a promotion to Connecticut?

by steve S on Dec 28, 2006 10:07 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Connecticut

You are right. CT looks like a black hole for both pitching and hitting. Well, it's a black hole for hitting every year. Anyway, maybe Joe Martinez makes the jump to CT. I could see at least one out of Ben Snyder, Kevin Pucetas or Adam Cowart making the jump too. Beyond that, I'd look for Sack, Martinez and Moreno as roster filler.

Followup question: Where do Whitaker, Griffin and Acosta go if they are healthy?

by DrBGiantsfan on Dec 28, 2006 4:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Connecticut

I have Whitaker, Griffin and Acosta penciled in for San Jose. I would be surprised if Pucetas or Cowart made the jump to the Connecticut rotation. Guys who have jumped to the Connecticut rotation in recent years include Jonathan Sanchez, Pat Misch and Kevin Correia; I don't quite see Ben Snyder in that category given my current knowledge about him.

I don't know what to make of Sack. I suspect that Gregorio Martinez and Anthony Moreno would not fare well in double-A. It will be interesting to see what role Alex Hinshaw has next year. If his Hawaii stats reflect real progress, perhaps he is a candidate.

And I would not be surprised to see Chris Begg back in Connecticut again. It's not fair, but the Canadian is probably better adapted to the cold weather there in April.

by steve S on Dec 28, 2006 5:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Connecticut

Last year was the first year in a long time that the Giants haven't pushed one pitcher from S-K to CT. Cowart and Pucetas certainly put up the kind of numbers that would make you think about jumping them. I think you may be underestimating Snyder a bit.

by DrBGiantsfan on Dec 28, 2006 6:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Prospectin'....

I put Ryan Sadowski in the AA rotation, but I'm only guessing he would be back by then.

I agreed with Dr.B about Joe Martinez going up because of his age and 4 years in college. I also though Dave Mckae might be a longshot and that Darren Sack should be a good choice because of his performance.

by Derelict on Dec 28, 2006 4:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Dave McKae

I like the idea of pushing him to CT. At his age, let's see what he can do.

by DrBGiantsfan on Dec 28, 2006 6:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Dave McKae

I was putting Cowart in at AA too. But maybe they start him at a lower level to raise his trade value? They did it with Hensley. With so many underachievers this year, we might need to create as many overachievers as we can for deadline trade bait.

by Derelict on Dec 29, 2006 12:51 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Prospectin'....

I suspect that Tim the Enchanter is going to be the only prospect listed as excellant. They just put the Padres and the socal brethren didn't have a single Excellant prospect, with Kevin Kouzmanoff being one of two very good prospects.

I think that Villalona will cut it as very good, and probably Sanchez too. Sadler, Wilson, and Frandsen seem like border cases.

I think it's interesting to note whatever the prospect list is for the Giants, the rankings with non-rookies 25 years or younger for the Giants will only have one difference with the prospect list:

1. Matt Cain

by oldjacket on Dec 28, 2006 8:44 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

OHmyGOD!!!!!

Giants sign ZITO.

7 years, $126 mill.

Shit.

I continually ask myself why I am a Giants fan.

by Shawn Estes for President on Dec 28, 2006 9:25 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: OHmyGOD!!!!!

Yeah, baby! I love it.

by achiappanza on Dec 28, 2006 10:09 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Prospectin'....

Another list. Here is how I would probably rank them this morning, plus in parantheses how I ranked them in mid-September just to demonstrate how fickle my opinion might be based upon a little fall/winter ball, which should be nearly meaningless to how I rank them:

RHP Tim Lincecum (1)
LHP Jonathan Sanchez (2)
3B Angel Villalona (4)
2B Kevin Frandsen (6)
RF Nate Schierholtz (3)
LF Eddy Martinez-Esteve (5)
RHP Brian Wilson (7)
LF Fred Lewis (8)
RHP Billy Sadler (16)
SS Emmanuel Burriss (11)

And whatever Kevin Goldstein writes today could cause me to change my mind again.

by steve S on Dec 28, 2006 9:26 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Prospectin'....

This is about what I'd come up with. My EME enthusiasm will not die quietly, although this is obviously a pivotal year for him.

"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Dec 28, 2006 10:54 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Mike McBryde

I'm surprised I have seen his name at all come up. Maybe not a top 10, but a top 15. From the reports, the team seems to think that he plays a MLB-ready CF right now and only needs the bat to come around to make it. He has great speed.

And if CF doesn't work out, he has a good pitching arm and could still make a transition. Given the versatility, his name should come up, perhaps before that of Burriss.

We'd be pretty good if we didn't suck so bad.

by nostocksjustbonds on Dec 28, 2006 3:13 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Mike McBryde

I like McBryde's potential a lot. He's coming off an injury though and his S-K stats make it semm like he's not going to be a quick mover.

Top 15 is possible for Baseball America to rank him, but we don't have much to go on about his contact ability other than his stats.

by Derelict on Dec 29, 2006 12:47 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Mike McBryde

I believe McBryde hit something like .344 his Soph year in college. He, of course, missed his entire Jr season with the pulled hammy.

by DrBGiantsfan on Dec 29, 2006 6:15 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

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