V
by Grant Brisbee on Jan 31, 2008 8:47 AM PST
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PrintI'm usually not one for self-promotion -- as you'll recall, GrantFest was a disaster -- but I just realized that I've been writing about the Giants for five years now. Five freaking years. Except for a brief hiatus in 2004, it's been a pretty consistent haul too. I've learned a lot. For example, I've learned that I should be running the Giants' personnel department. Yep, it's true. To prove it, I've compiled five predictions, opinions, or reactions from the past five years
My Five Greatest Moments:
Durham, 2B
Aurilia, SS
Bonds, LF
Alfonzo, 3B
Cruz, CF
Linden, RF
Torcato/Niekro, 1B
Torrealba, C
With a staff of:
Schmidt
Moss
Foppert
Ainsworth
Williams
A lot would have to fall into place, but that could be a juggernaut.
Oh, yeah. Jose Cruz, Jr. has had three straight years of 30/30, Edgardo Alfonzo is just starting to wind down his career, and first base isn't an issue anymore because of Torcaniekro there. Hear what I'm sayin'? It's the sooth, baby.
Lesson learned: Stop, just stop, trying to go too far into the future. "The 2013 Giants will have quite the pickle on their hands with Tim Lincecum, Madison Bumgarner, Matt Cain, Tim Alderson, and ...urrrrkrkrrr." (Note: the "urrrrkrkrrrr" signifies that I've been tazed. I'll trust you to do the right thing if I forget this lesson.)
Roberts
Vizquel
Durham
Bonds
Sexson
Aurilia
Winn
Molina
That's not bad. Not great...but much better than I could have guessed. It would hinge on that trade for a first baseman with substantial power, though. I was excited. Sign a guy like Maddux, and the rotation would have been solid, too.
Ah, how topical. Yes, at this time last year, I was still thinking that the Giants could compete. When they brought back Pedro, everything was ruined! Forget that the team was relying on five players over the age of 35 to make huge contributions to the offense. That was a non-issue. It was all Pedro's fault! Grrrrrr! Oh, and Richie Sexson was the solution to the Giants' problems, too.
Lesson learned: Remember that scapegoats make you feel better, but they're usually just one contributor to a larger problem. And that larger problem is that the Giants are tearing, have torn, and will tear your heart out.
The Giants lost the 2004 division because their bullpen was awful. Armando Benitez was the best reliever on the 2004/2005 offseason market. Ergo, post prompter ex hoc facto, the Giants needed to sign Armando Benitez.
Lesson learned: Armando Benitez is an unwatchable tub of goo.
Dammit. What would the odds in Vegas have been for a successful career for Francisco Liriano? Dude would pitch five minor league innings before his uvula would get sore, and that was it until the next season. And Joe Nathan? 2001 AAA: 7.33; 2002 AAA: 5.61; 2003 NL: 2.96. Note that there were major shoulder problems mixed in. How was that not a good time to trade him? Wasn't it perfectly reasonable to assume he'd regress or get hurt again? If you get a chance at an above-average catcher in his 20s, you give up your injury-prone pitchers every time. Dammit.
Lesson learned: Sometimes -- and I know I'm just riffing here -- young pitchers actually succeed. So maybe you shouldn't treat them like drink tickets at a company Christmas party. They don't lose all value once the night is over. Sometimes, it's okay to hold onto them, or at least you shouldn't trade them for players whose value is all tied up in a turf-aided batting average when you have a perfectly acceptable 20-something alternative already in place.
This was even worse than the previous transgression because it cuts to the quick of the Bad Bad Arrogant Blogging Nerd Who Has Never Played a Day in His Life-stereotype. Why was I so opposed to Nathan in the bullpen? Because of AAA stats. When would those stats start to be useless? When a guy shows up in Scottsdale in February and starts throwing mid-90s gas with a nasty curveball.
Lesson learned: Watch the players before getting too sure of yourself, jackass. Especially the pitchers. It took about two innings for me to see why the Giants put Nathan on the roster. It's a little tougher with hitters, but if a guy is throwing fantastic stuff and controlling it well, sometimes it makes sense to minimize the past struggles.
Cherry-pick some of your own past idiocies or lavish praise on me. Your choice.
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by EliminateMe on Jan 31, 2008 10:30 AM PST up reply actions
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Who knew that was going to go so horribly wrong?
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I am an idiot.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jan 31, 2008 9:13 AM PST up reply actions
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I also remember thinking that, although Jason Schmidt had a chance to be very good, John VanderWal was really going to make a huge difference.
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by wishiwasbond on Jan 31, 2008 9:25 AM PST reply actions
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by BondOrBust on Jan 31, 2008 10:12 AM PST up reply actions
I think one of my shining moments in life...
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Congrats on five great years, Grant. Looking forward to many more, unless of course the site redesign is a disaster, in which case I'll start posting on ChrisHaft.com.
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I thought never bringing back Jeff Kent was fine, I was sure that meant we would spend money to bring in Vlad.
I was high on such great prospects like Jr Philips(JR is going to come in here and curse me), Van Landingham, Estes, Ainsworth, Niekro.
I too, thought Beneitiez was a good signing. I knew he had troubles but anything is better then Tyler Walker, or Dustin Hermanson I told my self.
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by howtheyscored on Jan 31, 2008 9:51 AM PST up reply actions
Just some of the highlights
Like watching Power Rangers well into the "Aqua Power Rangers" years, I had very very high hopes for Lance Niekro for waaay too long.
I thought Rashaun Woods was a great draft pick at the time.
I went an saw Saw IV because my ex-roommate was paying for it. Even at no charge, that was a huge mistake.
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- liking the Alfonzo signing
- liking Jerome Williams after his K rate tanked
- not hating the Pierzynski trade enough
At the time I wrote
for the record: ugh.and I didn't even love Mr. Bonser's prospects. my ugh is twofold:
one, I got to see our new catching hero play here in the Twinkiedome,
and he's yet another hacker. I'm tired of hackers. two, it just seems to
me Nathan, Bonser and Liriano should have fetched a little more -- but
then that's often how I feel about Sabean's trades.well, I guess that settles one lineup spot.
'Ugh' and 'should have fetched a little more' seem like classic failure-through-understatement.
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I thought Alfonzo was a great signing.
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Its a different game today and the Giants are a different team.. In '97 we were a small market team.
Now we are playing with the big boys - where money doesn't always mean your gonna be good.
They need to make some changes, Sabeans already got one foot out the door with this steroid shit. Good Riddance..
I'm just excited to watch baseball again. We've all got low expectations this year, so lets just enjoy watching these young guys play ball. We won't know what to expect in '09 until the trade deadline this year.
by justinohan on Jan 31, 2008 10:18 AM PST reply actions
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I thought Klesko would be a difference-maker last year. He didn't suck, but he certainly didn't make a difference.
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I remember in 2006 watching him take BP once and he never even got a ball to the warning track, despite doing his windmill swings.
It was embarrassing that his at-bat song with the Padres was "Bad to the Bone."
At the end of the 2005 NLDS vs. STL, he came up with a chance to tie the game and we all laughed because we knew that wasn't gonna happen. Instead, he hit a 15-hopper to the mound to end the season. And none of us were surprised. His power was shot.
How can you argue with this?
I'm a little to amused by that picture I think.
Something else..
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1.I was extrmely excited when we "won" Morris
2.I got excited when we got Latroy Hawkins
3.I thought Zito would change the franchise... too bad he can't hit
4.Randy Winn is a power hitter, and the perfect corner outfielder.
5.Moises Alou was the protection Bonds needed, and we are going to the World Series (Well maybe if he actually was ever in the same lineup, it was like there was only one seat on the bench for both of them..)
My best thoughts that may have worked out but maybe not:
We should have traded Schmidt for Milledge, so we could have another outfield prospect! Oh wait.....
Things I commend myself for thinking:
1.Roberts was a bad signing from the get go
2.We did not need Durham
3.We should not have signed Bonds last year,
by dant on Jan 31, 2008 10:45 AM PST reply actions
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by howtheyscored on Jan 31, 2008 11:00 AM PST up reply actions
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Its funny I hear alot of Giants fan , complain about Bond and the $14M contract that gave us 170 OPS. But nothing said form them about Aurilia(5M), Durham(7M), Roberts(6M), Feliz(5), Morris(10M, I think we paid it all) and Blownietiez(9M). No all them and the media want to talk about is how we gave Bonds $14M, like if we would have never signed Bonds the team would have won 90 games , LMAO.
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I really thought Todd Linden would turn into a decent major league hitter.
I really thought Damon Minor would turn into a decent major league hitter.
I thought the Giants should have held onto Dustan Mohr.
I really thought Calvin Murray would turn into a decent major league hitter.
Damon Minor..
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by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jan 31, 2008 11:54 AM PST up reply actions
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by Andy from DC on Jan 31, 2008 12:29 PM PST up reply actions
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But he did have a .390+ OBP that year. :(
By the way, LOL at his BB-Ref sponsor: Mohr is one of the many building blocks. Let's build the Rays Fan Nation into a force.
I've gotta laugh at the stupidity...
"If Sabean constructs a roster that finishes below .500 for the third straight season, his job would have to be in question, right?" -Offseason 2006/2007
I mean, come on.
Re: I've gotta laugh at the stupidity...
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Created and Produced by Conan O'Brien. Ridiculous TV cast. Acclaimed writers. Apparently that's worth, like, 3 episodes. Sucks.
by howtheyscored on Jan 31, 2008 11:35 AM PST up reply actions
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I liked the Alfonzo signing.
I liked Felipe Alou as manager hiring (although Bob Melvin was my first choice).
I thought Ainsworth, Foppert, and Jerome Williams were going to be solid starters for years.
I was happy to see Jeff Kent leave because I thought he was a red-ass and bad chemistry.
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by EliminateMe on Jan 31, 2008 11:25 AM PST up reply actions
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- I thought bringing in Benitez was a good move, until I actually saw him in person.
- I thought letting Kent go was a good idea. D'oh.
- I thought bringing in Galarraga was a bad idea.
- I really thought Worrell was a horrible closer...until I saw what followed.
- Last year, I thought all the vets the Giants signed would be flippable at the trade deadline. If I had meant "because they're dead meat on the grill," I would have been right.
- I actually thought I'd post to my own blog last season...go figure!
Re: Where ya been anyways Skaldheim?
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Actually, I was not really thrilled with the Benitez signing. You see, I spent the 90's in NYC. Aside from
a) too much money
b) closers are generally overpaid anyway
c) FAT TUB OF GOO
d) coming off obviously peak season
I think the kindest words I had was "nice 2004, but glad it's not my money". But I didn't exactly predict the wretchedness we actually suffered.
Not me!
by EliminateMe on Jan 31, 2008 12:33 PM PST up reply actions
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Oh, wait a second...
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by The Gene Hackman on Jan 31, 2008 11:32 AM PST reply actions
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-Thinking Nathan would never be healthy.
-Ok with Kent leaving after '02.
-Liking the Alfonzo signing.
and many more that others have already listed.
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I think he ended up at the same psychiatrist as Brit did
by wishiwasbond on Jan 31, 2008 12:13 PM PST reply actions
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didnt most of us think that joe nathan was just a nice average major league reliever?
if it was always 100% when forecasting certain talent or moves, then half the blogging world wouldnt exist.
speculation is the key to continued conversation when newsdays are slow
by son of riles on Jan 31, 2008 12:14 PM PST reply actions
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on an unrelated note i started printing "NL champs" shirts after we acquired Shea Hillenbrand.
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I thought Shawn Estes was going to be a Cy Young winner one day.
I too sipped the Kelly Downs kool aid. He did pitch a seven hit shut out one time. (Don't know why I remember that... just thought it was funny when, after the last out, the Giants announcer said: And Downs pitches a seven-hitter! I've heard of pitchers tossing no-hitters, one-hitters, even two hitters... but seven hitters?
I though Bochy would be a decent manager, hence, I overestimated him. Roger Craig, Dusty Baker, and Felipe Alou all were pretty cool managers with moments of brilliance and great charisma. BOTCHEE seems like a tool who is stuck in his lefty-righty match up ways.
Side-note: it's funny to think about each managers quirks:
Roger Craig- endless pitch outs, shredding pitchers tendons by teaching the split-finger... but he brought some humm baby positivity back to the club, and had a wonderful knack for staying with the hot hand when calling on the pen. (Ex: Joe Price, 3 scoreless innings in the playoffs)
Dusty Baker- burning pitchers out by ignoring pitch counts, often bone-headed strategic moves (letting pitchers hit), lack of creativity like double switches... strengths were that he was a player-loved manager, and in fact very likeable, and a great batting coach.
Felipe Alou- "0.3 IP" Alou. Bullpen craziness. Surliness with press and players at times. Distant. On the positive side, he juggled line-ups nicely, worked bench players into games often, and I consider Felipe to be a brilliant in-game baseball strategist.... at least until his last year when he got a little, well, old in the head.
Botchy- he likes him his vets.
The Upside of Downs
Had a respectable WHIP a few of those years, and I remember one season ('87? '88?) hearing he had logged more "quality starts" than the bigger names of the rotation -- that is, until the inevitable injury and DL stint.
Kelly had tough stuff to hit -- he just ran low of petrol by the fifth, and was usually gasping for air by the seventh inning...
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I too was excited about Alou's hiring and felt we had to sign Benitez.
And I was the world's biggest fan of Jesse Foppert (like more enthusiastic than Sharkrog over Timmy).
After the third out of the bottom of 6th inning in Game 6, I turned to a friend and said, "Geez, we better get Ortiz outa there before he falls apart."
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i really really liked the alou signing at the time: i kept telling people, whenever they were upset, "don't worry, the giants signed moises alou."
i thought our lineup was stacked after we dealt for hillenbrand. i thought he was going to put us over the top.
i told my dad in 99 that bill mueller was the kind of player that could win a batting title some day. he eventually fulfilled the prophesy.
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- Ensberg gone
- Mcpherson gone
- Crede?
- Edwin Encar? (I hope)
- Look for a 1st Basemen/Frandsen @ 3rd?
by justinohan on Jan 31, 2008 2:39 PM PST reply actions
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You know.
V
-I wasn't for Vizquel enough.
-I didn't like the AJ trade, but I wasn't vocal enough about it. Hell, even ESPN was talking around what an asshole he was/is.
-I didn't mind Benitez at the time. He turned out to be a disaster, but I still don't think that his signing was "nuts." How was I (or anyone) to know that he'd break down? By the way, the dancing 'Mando Head is the one graphic that makes me laugh aloud every time I see it.
-I was okay with the Winn signing. Actually, I still don't think that he was a bad signing. I was okay with it because I thought that he could hit, was pretty durable, and that his (at the time) price wouldn't be that bad in subsequent years. Then again, that Randy Winn was a signing of note is evidence of how screwed we are.
-Wrong, way wrong on LaTroy Hawkins. I thought that he was going to be a quality addition to the bullpen.
-Wrong on Durham at times as well.
-I liked Cain, but not enough.
Right?
-Jesus, two years of freaking crying to trade Schmidt. Two trades that I wanted were Kinsler/Gonzalez from Texas--by the way, San Diego traded LESS than Schmidt and got Gonzalez and Young--and Vernon Wells (didn't know he'd hurt his shoulder either) and someone like a young Aaron Hill.
-There are others, but this is for another day.
by Kent @ McCovey Chronicles on Jan 31, 2008 4:58 PM PST reply actions
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You do have a way with words. It's been five great years. Thanks. And I mean that.
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My worst?
AJ Pierzynski: misunderstood
Jerome Williams and Deivi Cruz = Bob Feller + Hanley Ramirez.
I was twelve-ish so i give my retardation a little leeway but Deivi? That's borderline shunnable.
by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Jan 31, 2008 11:24 PM PST reply actions
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Question about another Grant quote from Boof:
I can't imagine Sabean trading Nathan knowing his shoulder was about to devolve into powdered toast, but there was something the front office wasn't too keen on. It might have been a mental or physical problem, but the tone surprises me. This was a player who would have been discarded long ago by most organizations, but the Giants stuck with him. I wouldn't have put him on the roster to start the season, but the team did, and they were rewarded. To give up on him now, and to basically say, "ehhh, whatever", is odd. Sabean didn't seem adverse to doing some dumpster divin' for some free agent bullpen help to replace Nathan, that's for sure. "
Did this ever get explained? I had never thought of it before, but they really did stick with Nathan through all the surgeries and rehabs, and to dismiss him so nonchalantely seems strange. Just curious if this was ever explained.
Re: Question about another Grant quote from Boof:
by Grant Brisbee on Feb 1, 2008 3:45 PM PST up reply actions
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- Was absolutely sure Edgardo would prove me right.
- Was absolutely sure Todd Lindern would prove me right.
- Understood the Pierzynski trade.
- Understood the Blowneitez signing.
- Thought the Felipe signing was terrific.
- Got really bent out of shape when they released Dustin Mohr.
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