Sabean chat - some interesting tidbits
Highlights:
On upgrading offense: "In moving forward without Bonds, we understand that we will need to address the need for a middle-of-the-order presence. We'll thoroughly explore the trade and free agent markets, knowing that our pitching depth may engage us in trade talks for such a player. "
More on upgrading: "We're definitely looking to build this team around pitching, speed and defense, all attributes that are suited to both AT&T Park and the style of play in the National League West. Our starting pitching is among the best in the game, and there are a lot of clubs that would like to be able to say that. Again, we realize that we have to upgrade our offense and our bullpen."
On Frandsen: "Kevin will probably be given a chance to be an everyday player with a position to be determined."
Q: In your opinion, who was the Giants' 2007 MVP?
Sabean: Bengie Molina.
On Ortmeier: "Ortmeier has impressed everybody with how quickly he's been able to pick up the first-base position. Hopefully, he'll develop the power desired from a corner infielder. "
On potential #5 starters: "Correia and Sanchez will be given that opportunity. "
Q: Are Matt Cain and Lincecum "untouchable" as far as possible trades in the offseason?
Sabean: Probably.
On Schierholtz: "Schierholtz will play in the Arizona Fall League this offseason and gain more at-bats against quality prospect pitching. He obviously played well enough at the big-league level this year to be in the mix for playing time next year."
On Velez: "Velez will participate in the Arizona Fall League, playing mostly second base."
Q: What were positives this year?
Sabean: Unquestionably, our starting pitching and the emergence of Wilson, Walker and Hennessey at the end of the year.
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
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......wow
Sabean: Bengie Molina.
Well you have your answer folks. Sabean does not know anything about baseball.
by awesomer @ McCovey Chronicles on Oct 1, 2007 8:01 PM PDT reply actions
Re: ......wow
Re: ......wow
Players more deserving than Molina
Cain
Lincecum
Lowry
Winn
maybe even Feliz
by awesomer @ McCovey Chronicles on Oct 1, 2007 8:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Re: ......wow
Bengie 134 games
Bonds OPS+ 170
Bengie OPS+ 87
by nostocksjustbonds on Oct 1, 2007 8:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Re: ......wow
If anyone truly had been more valuable than Barry, that player would have had a wonderful season or -- more likely -- Barry wouldn't have had a really good season and the Giants would have finished with the worst record in the majors.
Re: Sabean chat - some interesting tidbits
by Mark carry on on Oct 1, 2007 8:11 PM PDT reply actions
Re: Sabean chat - some interesting tidbits
he refused to say that kfran has already won the 2nd base job
he has opened the possibilty of trading cain and/or lincecum
he says that ort needs to develop power when the guys he's been putting at first never had power
he refused to give any real props to the position prospects
he refused to answer any real questions put to him by real fans
fire sabean...he is evil
Re: Sabean chat - some interesting tidbits
I don't think any player or prospect is totally untouchable. For instance, lots of teams out there are going to be desperate for pitching this winter, not the least being the Dodgers. Ned Colletti is also going to be under intense pressure to produce a winner next season. Let's say he has a brain cramp and offers Kemp, LaRoche, Kershaw and Hu for Tim Lincecum. I'd say Sabean should at the very least give that some serious thought.
by DrBGiantsfan on Oct 1, 2007 10:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Re: Sabean chat - some interesting tidbits
Re: Sabean chat - some interesting tidbits
by Lyle @ McCovey Chronicles on Oct 2, 2007 3:57 AM PDT up reply actions
Re: Sabean chat - some interesting tidbits
Why should he guarantee Frandsen the starting 2B job? Shouldn't he earn it? They need to leave options open.
"he has opened the possibilty of trading cain and/or lincecum"
He said they're "probably untouchable". He should never close a door completely or show his hand. If the phone rings with interest in Cain, he wants to be able to say "Can I interest you in this nice shiny Lowry and some prospects?"
"he says that ort needs to develop power when the guys he's been putting at first never had power"
I think you'd have criticized Sabean no matter what he said on this subject and would have screamed bloddy murder if he said "We don't think power at first base is important.".
"he refused to give any real props to the position prospects"
I disagree. He's said nice things about Ort, Nate and KFrand. Baring a FA aquisition, he's annointed Davis the starting CF next year.
Re: Sabean chat - some interesting tidbits
the man is an evil bastard
ort has to develop power, but its ok for sabean to keep signing first baseman that have no power??? horseshit
and ort had exactly the same amount of hr's that klesko did...in half the at bats....
when talking about the prospects, he tempered his remarks, as if it would kill him to speak glowingly about them
kfran hits 370 in the month of sept, against contending teams....ray spends the year fighting not to fall below the mendoza line...i think kfran has earned the spot....unless you think that st really means something
the entire chat showed how myopic and out of touch our gm is
this team will lose 100 games next season, and you will spend that time patting sabean on the back for a job well done
Re: Sabean chat - some interesting tidbits
I don't think Goofus is Sabean Apologizing. I just think he's trying to look at things a little more evenly than many of us who are just ape crap over the edge with the guy and his double speak (myself included).
by howtheyscored on Oct 2, 2007 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Re: Sabean chat - some interesting tidbits
Looked more like submergence to me.
by leewhee on Oct 1, 2007 9:07 PM PDT reply actions
Re: Sabean chat - some interesting tidbits
Re: Sabean chat - some interesting tidbits
Re: Sabean chat - some interesting tidbits
by Punch Rockgroin on Oct 1, 2007 10:36 PM PDT reply actions
Interesting GM tidbits
Re: Sabean chat - some interesting tidbits
by nostocksjustbonds on Oct 2, 2007 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions
Re: Sabean chat - some interesting tidbits
- The Giant Doughnut: 2007 SF Giants Offensive Output and Brian Sabean's Daily Breakfast
- Barry Scary: How to Build a Baseball Team with Exactly One Offensive Threat
- "It sounds ridiculous, but really, I don't think we performed or competed or took the field like a last-place team." And Other Terrible Opines.
- Suck
Re: Sabean chat - some interesting tidbits
Re: Sabean chat - some interesting tidbits
I don't care if what he says is largely diplomatic political rhetoric. I just don't want to hear such total tooish nonsense coming out of anybody's mouth who is connected to running or building this team.
It's awful.
Not everything he said is bad, but enough of it that I'm just going to ignore the worthwhile parts.
Re: Sabean chat - some interesting tidbits
by howtheyscored on Oct 1, 2007 11:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Re: Sabean chat - some interesting tidbits
I fear what asking the man the time of day would bring.
"In a sense it's a quarter past 12. But when you think about it, we're really on Mars."
by Punch Rockgroin on Oct 2, 2007 12:05 AM PDT up reply actions
Re: Sabean chat - some interesting tidbits
I know our fans are really going to miss eating at convenient hours, but it really is what's best for the ballclub, and we think it's got to be what's best for lunch, too.
<Ralph Barbieri: "I'm hungry. How did the lunch block react when you told it?">
Well, it was obviously a little disappointed, but I think it knows where we're coming from and we have a real understanding.
<From the other room, Lunch: "Suck it, Giants.">
by howtheyscored on Oct 2, 2007 12:37 AM PDT up reply actions
Re: Sabean chat - some interesting tidbits
by Lyle @ McCovey Chronicles on Oct 2, 2007 5:01 AM PDT up reply actions
Re: Sabean chat - some interesting tidbits
Okay, benefit of the doubt time is over. Sabean no longer has any idea of what makes a winning baseball team.
Giants postseason breakdown- Good Summary
Re: Giants postseason breakdown- Good Summary
Re: Giants postseason breakdown- Good Summary
Re: Giants postseason breakdown- Good Summary
Re: Giants postseason breakdown- Good Summary
Re: Giants postseason breakdown- Good Summary
by nostocksjustbonds on Oct 2, 2007 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Re: Giants postseason breakdown- Good Summary
If that's how Sabean is evaluating our pitchers, then he is an idiot. Based on his W-L record, Matt Cain should be traded, but that would be just retarded.
by nostocksjustbonds on Oct 2, 2007 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions
Re: Giants postseason breakdown- Good Summary
by howtheyscored on Oct 2, 2007 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions
Re: Giants postseason breakdown- Good Summary
- Know would want to take Zito and his contract on, especially after a season in which he lost more games than he won.
- Cain is much better than his W/L record would indicate and they'd be foolish to deal him (for anything other than the moon the stars).
- Lowry's W/L record makes him look shiny to potential suitors and he's a good trade candidate to bring in some offense.
Re: Giants postseason breakdown- Good Summary
Too bad he left out the most important part of the plan: revamping the minor league system to develop good young hitters (ie: not pop-less wonders or mindless hackers) along with (NOT in place of) the good young pitchers.
Re: Sabean chat - some interesting tidbits
Nothing should be committed to at this point other than keeping all options open. He should not be guaranteeing starting jobs to the kids (since those can and should become lies should better options appear), not be guaranteeing a trade (that may not come, especially if a rival GM can leverage the embarrassment of breaking a promise if a trade isn't made), not not be saying they'll spend their way out of this (thus becoming a target of every agent of every player on the market), not ruling out (or in) anything. The decisions should only come once actual options have sought out, and any talk before then is at best hypothetical speculation, and at worst reducing the team's leverage.
Yet still, people come out and cry criminal when Sabean talks, just as they'd probably be just as apeshit crazy if he said nothing at all to us.
Anyone who expects something of substance to be said now, or at any point until a move is actually made, is fooling themselves.
Re: Sabean chat - some interesting tidbits
No matter what anyone says, the voices of fans do have an impact on front offices. We were given two pretty dramatic examples of that with the Giants this year. So wanting to be one of those voices that has an impact just seems like responsible fandom to me.
Re: Sabean chat - some interesting tidbits
You can not answer questions and still show that you have a basic understanding of the game you make a career of.
by howtheyscored on Oct 2, 2007 8:11 AM PDT up reply actions
Re: Sabean chat - some interesting tidbits
I agree with Brute, I think Sabean said enough to talk about without giving away any detailed plans.
Re: Sabean chat - some interesting tidbits
Oh well. Sometimes that's just how the listening schedule goes.
by howtheyscored on Oct 2, 2007 9:29 AM PDT up reply actions
Re: Sabean chat - some interesting tidbits
"I think if you look at our season, it's probably a more pressing issue to make sure we have that in order," Bochy said of the Giants' bullpen [...]
Re: Sabean chat - some interesting tidbits
Re: Sabean chat - some interesting tidbits
Re: Sabean chat - some interesting tidbits
I am really sick of Sabean apologists covering for him everytime he says something stupid like "Molina was our MVP for 2007". The dude had a .295 OBP. That's borderline worthless even for a catcher.
I guess he's the MVP because someone has to catch those pitches or they'll all go to the backstop!
Oh, I suppose he's just "saying that for the media, it's not what he really thinks" or "he's trying to pump up his trade value" or "he holds his cards so close to his chest, you never really know what he's thinking".
Idiot.
Blind Man's Bluff
Re: Sabean chat - some interesting tidbits
If the Batting Coach was anyone but Sabean's BFF, he would have been fired years ago. Several teams fired their hitting coaches mid-season, and yet the most impotent offense in the league stuck with theirs. It makes me want to bring the pain.
It's going to be an interesting winter
Most, if not all, say get another power hitter yet scream when when Sabean addresses Messers. ARod, Hunter and Jones. Are you aware SF had averaged more runs WITHOUT Bonds in line-up than with Bonds in line-up? Hard to believe, but the Giants averaged 4.03 runs in the 116 games Bonds was in the lineup; in 46 games without him, they averaged 4.67 runs. Who knew the brother was keeping us down?
Let Sabean address the SF Giants needs this winter as he tries to build a winner. Not all of his transactions will be blockbusters. Some may even be controversial. He has done this before and I will give him the opportunity to make this proud franchise respectable and a winner again.
Re: It's going to be an interesting winter
That said, I'm certainly looking forward to seeing how the team takes shape.
Re: It's going to be an interesting winter
JESUS. Please tell me you are joking/being sarcastic. If not, there needs to be an IQ test to be allowed to post. I don't think our forefathers realized how stupid people could be when they came up with that free speech idea.
Look, this is why people say statistics are misleading. It's because too often people who use them have no idea what they're doing. If you really think our lineup is better without Bonds you are WRONG. There is nothing subjective about this. Sorry for being so rude, but this is getting ridiculous.
Re: It's going to be an interesting winter
If it were the other way around and the team scored more runs with Bonds in the lineup, I'm guessing you'd have no problem offering it as evidence that Bonds should have been brought back.
Re: It's going to be an interesting winter
Re: It's going to be an interesting winter
Re: It's going to be an interesting winter
Many of those games Bonds missed were late in the year when the Giants had stopped playing Durham and Roberts every single f---in' game. So maybe sample size combined with the absence of the varsity lineup conspired to give us this statistic. Or maybe it's just sample size. Either way it's definitely a fluke and goes against all research that has illustrated the absence of a peer effect in baseball.
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Oct 2, 2007 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Re: It's going to be an interesting winter
Re: It's going to be an interesting winter
OK. I don't have time to do this properly, but I will try to 'splain. Here is how I would try to understand this anomaly.
- Check the number. Anyone do this? What is the source?
- What is the standard deviation of runs scored/game. The SD in 116 games is always going to be smaller than 46 games, but lets say it's 0.5 rpg - then the difference is signficant. What if it's 1.0 rpg? There is a whole field devoted to determining the statistical significance of numbers like this, and the probability that the difference is true or random.
OK, so we do that and we are sure that the difference is actually significant:
3) We know how Bonds hit in the games he played. How did his replacement hit (OBP, SLG)? How did the rest of the team hit (OBP, SLG)? It might be true that the rest of the team ALSO hit better, but now not the runs are distributed poorly, but the hits were!
This should leave you with a couple of hypotheses:
a) Barry made the rest of the Giants hit worse
b) Barry made the rest of the Giants less clutch
c) Hitting for power and getting on base does not help you score runs.
d) Giants were unlucky when Barry played
It's obvious to me that a,b, and c are ridiculous. Anyone have any others?
And no, I am not going to do the statistics for anyone for <$100/hour.
Dr. Zenbitz, Ph D.
Re: Sabean chat - some interesting tidbits
Reminds me of how well the Warriors played better, scored better last year without Richardson. As Nellie said, Jason does what he does but doesn't make the people around him better. Bonds--even more so.
Re: Sabean chat - some interesting tidbits
Re: Sabean chat - some interesting tidbits
by howtheyscored on Oct 2, 2007 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Re: Sabean chat - some interesting tidbits
/dusty
Sorry, this analogy doesn't work
by awesomer @ McCovey Chronicles on Oct 2, 2007 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Re: Sabean chat - some interesting tidbits
There are many explanations for the disparity in run-scoring: opposing pitchers, ballparks, etc.
Barry sat out day games that followed night games. The 2007 NL ERA was 4.62 during day games and only 4.34 in night games -- a difference of more then a quarter of a run. SO clearly teams across the League fared better offensively during games played in daylight.
This stat and the point it tries to make may be far-fetched, but surely no more far-fetched than believing, even for a second, that this team is better offensively without Bonds.
Re: Sabean chat - some interesting tidbits
CF Rajai Davis
2B Kevin Frandsen
LF Randy Winn
1B Nick Johnson
3B Mike Lowell
RF Nate Schierholtz
C Benji Molina
SS Omar Vizquel
Sure, it's definitely possible. All this is to make my simple point that TWO good 4th, 5th hitters are better than ONE cleanup masher. So for instance, even if we get AROD, it's useless unless we get a Lowell to bat behind him as well.
Re: Sabean chat - some interesting tidbits
I just would hope we get something more like Nick Johnson 2006 than 2007.
But how would we acquire Nick Johnson?
Re: Sabean chat - some interesting tidbits
by giantsrainman on Oct 3, 2007 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Re: Sabean chat - some interesting tidbits
Re: Sabean chat - some interesting tidbits
by giantsrainman on Oct 4, 2007 12:25 AM PDT up reply actions

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