Title
The bubbly post from Friday was a perfect introduction to the chamber of weekend horrors that ensued. Yay, team! ♪We're gonna ♪make it after ♪ allllll♪♪♪♪!
It reminded me of one of the video diaries from The Ben Stiller Show. Stiller plays himself as a teenager, and records himself bouncing off the walls in excitement. He was taking his dream date to a Van Halen concert that night, and was going to put the moves on her during the "Jaime's Crying" solo. He was so, so excited. He turns off the camera, and the next scene is a quick cut to the next entry in the video diary. Now Stiller looks as if he were chewed up and spit out by a hippopotamus, with clumps of sod stuck to his face and a bloody shirt. He's crying, and starts in on one of sketch comedy's more tender soliloquies:
How did it go so wrong? I mean, besides the poor starting pitching. And besides the weak hitting. And, sure, the bullpen wasn't so hot. But other than that, can someone explain just how the Giants were swept? Other than being outclassed in every capacity of the game, that is.
The worst conceivable thing for this franchise would be for the team to still be a question mark at the trading deadline. The Giants would need to be at least eight games back to consider trading guys like Jason Schmidt or Moises Alou for much-needed younger talent. If the team was two or three games back or higher, I could understand staying the course and trying to make one final playoff push. The gloomy pessimist in me just knows they will be somewhere in between. Six games back. July 31st. A pointless Ricky Ledee-type deal is completed. Sabean makes some public comments about not giving up. The free agents walk, and the team stinks next year.
Now I'll take some questions from the studio audience:
Man in the back, who should probably just mind his own business: Actually, they're just two games back.
Man in tweed coat: Two games back? They're right in the hunt! Three bad games, and you just roll over? What gives?
I'm just hoping for the Giants to go on a run. I would obviously prefer it to be a good run. I want ten straight, a courtesy loss, and then ten more wins. That's a happy-time scenario. However, I would prefer the Giants lose fifteen in a row and get a bounty of young talent back for Jason Schmidt over more .500 meandering, if the .500 meandering starts forcing us away from the top spot in the division. I would think six games back on July 31st is ground zero: a perfect storm of inaction that would just be brutal for the future of the franchise.
What helps in the short-term, though, is a paper bag, some deep breathing, and the realization that the team is still just two games back from the lead spot in the division. Two games! Even though we were swept by a less-than-perfect team over the weekend, the club is still in an enviable position. The optimism dimmed a bit with the sweep, to be sure, but we didn't give up when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor, either.
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less than perfect team...
Re: less than perfect team...
Re: less than perfect team...
by NearestNorwich on Jun 19, 2006 6:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Re: less than perfect team...
by elduderino on Jun 20, 2006 12:03 AM PDT up reply actions
Trade Deadline
Let the ritual losing begin! Er, I mean, all is not lost....go Giants!
by Lyle @ McCovey Chronicles on Jun 19, 2006 11:26 AM PDT reply actions
I would...
Re: Title
Something like that. It's the mind of Grant, his clever miscues making us see deeper into the reality that is our 2006 San Francisco Giants.
by howtheyscored on Jun 19, 2006 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions
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by Grant Brisbee on Jun 19, 2006 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions
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I still like the metaphorical value of the thing, though...
by howtheyscored on Jun 19, 2006 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions
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by biff pocoroba on Jun 19, 2006 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions
i'm sorry...
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Also, for whatever it's worth, I heard Sabean on KNBR last week talking about Feliz and it really sounded like he'd like to re-sign him for next year. He also said they'd been kicking the idea around of moving Feliz to 1B this year and giving Frandsen a shot at 3rd. He CLEARLY was disappointed with Niekro.
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by Punch Rockgroin on Jun 19, 2006 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions
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by nostocksjustbonds on Jun 19, 2006 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions
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by David A. Arnott on Jun 19, 2006 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions
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The stats would be great and we'd win a few more games, but for the price he's nowhere near enough of a difference maker. Then again, I've thought he's the most overrated player in baseball for years, so I may be a little biased.
Now... A-Rod at first (as if it's even a possibility) might be enough of a statistical swing to make me think, but the yanks would still have to eat some money cake.
by howtheyscored on Jun 19, 2006 1:25 PM PDT up reply actions
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by David A. Arnott on Jun 19, 2006 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions
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His value as a player is high, I'm not arguing. But as an actual impact player, I've never seen anything save gaudy individual stats (oh the mighty infallible statistic!) to suggest that he's worth the money.
Now at discount, I'm all over that. Hell, I'd eat off of that.
by howtheyscored on Jun 19, 2006 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions
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A)Individual statistics lead to team success. That's just a fact. When ARod hits 48 home runs, it helps his team. Any argument of his unclutchness ends when you have to confront that ARod is a productive player, period. He's really good when his team is leading, when the game is tied, and he's really good when his team is behind. He's a great player in April, and a great player in September.
B)Don't believe me? Argue with evidence. Here are his career splits. And his numbers since joining the Yankees. They support my assertions.
C)If you think statistics and numbers don't tell you anything useful and don't possess the power of language, try arguing that point with someone who works in insurance or advertising, a physics professor, or an economist.
D)Everyone who tries to argue the "ARod always chokes in high pressure situations" line forgets that he carried the Yankees in the 2004 ALDS.
E)David Ortiz, the guy people inevitably point to in discussions like these, has much more obvious flaws. He can't play defense at all. He utterly kills righties, but becomes Brad Wilkerson when he hits against lefties. Ortiz is a great hitter, but I'd take ARod over anyone in baseball, even Pujols, as Rodriguez plays a more premium position, doesn't have the injury history, and is easily just as good a hitter, if not demonstrably better.
by David A. Arnott on Jun 19, 2006 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions
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How much of his salary would you take on?
How much would you give up for him?
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I would trade any four guys in the system for him, although at least 1-2 would have to be guys who get paid at least 7M/year. The possible exception is Schmidt (and Bonds who wouldn't go and Yanks wouldn't eat his salary), because I don't see the Giants making any kinda run this year without someone with the chops to be an ace.
I guess if they Yanks demand Feliz and Vizquel (although why with Jeter?) then you couldn't make the deal...
The only think I don't like is that Arod is wasted at 3rd. I would love to see Arod -> Yanks, Vizque -> someone who needs a SS -> what ever to the Yanks.
Can Arod play 2B?
Oh, this is silly. NEVER HAPPEN.
My beef with ARod
A) I don't think that his stats don't help teams to win games. I even said that with him the Giants would win more games, plain and simple. Great defense plus runs and rbis = more in the win column. Of course he'd help.
B) Yeah, I believe you.
C) I absolutely think that statistics and numbers tell you quite a lot about the value of a player and would be happy to argue alonside someone who works in insurance or advertising, a physics professor, or an economist about the inherent value of statistics. I absulotely do not, however, think that statistics tell you everything and in my opinion with A-Rod something is missing, and I know that it's not in his game and I know it's not in his ego or his sportsmanship, but some aspect of his contribution to the collective team has, over the course of his career, not been translating to be the component that helps the team to the proverbial next level.
D) A-Rod does have a tendency to choke in the big game. Not all the time, yes, but enough to make people notice. This isn't a point that makes all that much difference to me, though. His performance shouldn't be expected to carry the team every single time they get into a high pressure game. That's why Texas was always so bad with him, because they never put anybody around him.
E) I hate David Ortiz. He's a fat, ugly, obnoxious player who couldn't make it in the NL and has only given me headaches over the years.
The problem with arguing against A-Rod is that it sounds like I wouldn't take him if I could. I would. I positively would. He's one of the best individual players in the league and compared to our corner infield he's like that big chocoalte mousse cake to the kid who's been eating stray tree branches in the woods because his parents left him in the woods and he's not fast enough to catch anything that's not a tree branch. Faulty simile, I know, but it's kind of to the point.
He'd be a great business steal, too. People want to watch A-Rod. I'd probably want to watch A-Rod. Revenue would be great.
I'm reserved about the guy because for that kind of money I want another Barry, I want a Joe Montana - guys whose impact on the team exceeded what their statistics would lead you to believe (and Barry's stats this year are awful for his money, but he's still impacting with his presence... with something).
For crying out loud, he's been a damn Yankee. Nobody could possibly argue that he hasn't had the team around him. He was supposed to be the final piece, but since he came on board that piece has still been missing.
For 8-15 million, he's bang for your buck. For more I start to get wary because I can't define why he consistently hasn't made the impact that he should have, that his stats tell us he should have. For less I start to need to wear new pants. I think that says what I mean.
by howtheyscored on Jun 19, 2006 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Re: My beef with ARod
by NearestNorwich on Jun 19, 2006 6:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Re: My beef with ARod
Maybe the lesson here is that it's best to spend your money on pitching - it certainly seemed to work for the Braves in the 90's. And pitching injuries are so unpredictable, that assembling a strong-on-paper staff is still no guarantee of a successful season. Luck and good health are the wild cards, and unpredictable.
I see no "non-clutchiness" in A-Rod, and would be happy to have him on the Giants, but not at Barry Bonds prices. And certainly not in a trade for Matt Cain.
by Lyle @ McCovey Chronicles on Jun 20, 2006 5:53 AM PDT up reply actions
Re: My beef with ARod
While other teams will need to spend lots of money chasing ellusive quality pitching, the Giants have an opportunity to exploit cheap young arms and devote more money to the offense, which always seems to be less difficult to find.
Brainiac
I have another idea: leave Feliz at 3rd and sign a frickin' legit 1B as a free agent. And no, I don't mean JT Snow or anyone over 40.
Or maybe Sabean will sign Jamie Moyer and convert him to 1B. That oughta extend his career a few extra years.
by leewhee on Jun 19, 2006 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Re: Brainiac
OK, what free agent 1B that's available RIGHT NOW do you have in mind? As I said above, he was talking about THIS season to address the lack of offense at 1B.
At least Sabean is trying to think of a way to bolster the offense without trading away prospects.
Re: Brainiac
Re: Brainiac
by howtheyscored on Jun 19, 2006 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions
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Frandsen -> 3B is moronic.
Niekro/Sweeney platoon sucks, but it's better then "Kevin Fuckin' Frandsen."
33 1/3 Mc Covey bucks if you get the movie reference.
Giants made their 1B bed (like always) and now they have to lay in it.
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But in the realm of interesting divisional stats:
NL Central: 202 combined wins (equiv. of 168 in 5 team division)
*NL WEST: 175 combined wins*
AL East: 175 combined wins
AL Central: 174 combined wins
NL East: 168 combined wins
AL West: 141 combined wins (equiv. of 176 in 5 team division)
Tied for second in the league in wins to date, even with adjusted numbers (which is to say nothing for divisional winning percentages... Too lazy to add AND divide everything).
by howtheyscored on Jun 19, 2006 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Just curious...
Re: Just curious...
Re: Just curious...
by Ruths Curse Steakhouse on Jun 19, 2006 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions
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I know everyone wants to hang onto every possible prospect, but I'm comfortable giving up a couple of decent young guys to make something significant happen in return. The Giants need a big bat so bad it hurts. The pitching? It ain't perfect, but it'll do the job.
So I say go get get that big bat as soon as possible. Why wait until the trade deadline? Let's start running away with the division right now. And what happens if they do something risky right away and in a month they still look ugly? Then they can trade that big bat (and maybe even a couple of other guys) at the deadline.
Who was it, Cliff Floyd, that the Expos traded for and away within the span of a month a couple of years ago? I think that's the kind of approach the Giants should be taking.
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Alou ~= Kent with the bat BUT the average RF is way better than the average 2B. Double whammy!
Re: Alou...
by PacBellBoozer on Jun 19, 2006 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Re: Alou...
By RC (no park adjustments), Kent still out PRODUCED Alou in '05, and compares well in previous years.
Even if you squint and say that Kent = Alou, Durham at 2B << some scrubby league average RF. So, it's a net loss.
Of course, that assumes that they could FIND a scrubby league avg. RF for an appropriate salary with a flashlight.
Again, it all comes back to Alfatso. EF+Durham was supposed to replace Kent. But they became injury prone/washed up.
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by howtheyscored on Jun 19, 2006 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions
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Toga.
Toooooooga.
Tooooooga.
TOOOOOOOGA.
TOOOOOOOOOOGA.
Sean Casey
We could get this guy for a good minor leaguer. He's not worth the franchise, but we could get him without giving up too much.
He'd be a vast improvement over EVERYONE we have playing at 1b this season. And he'd fit right in with the giants because he doesn't have much power, has been around for awhile, and will hit into 3 dp's a game. what else could we ask for?
by nostocksjustbonds on Jun 19, 2006 3:41 PM PDT reply actions
Re: Sean Casey
I agree that Casey isn't a total savior, but he is definitely above average, which we don't have now. If the Pirates don't want too much, then Casey would be fine. I would prefer better, but who else is available?
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jun 19, 2006 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions
"Which minor leaguer?"
Re: Sean Casey
by Josh from The New Giant Thrill on Jun 19, 2006 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Re: Sean Casey
Casey at PacBell
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/5930/career_by_all_batting_splits.html
Re: Casey at PacBell
by Punch Rockgroin on Jun 19, 2006 5:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Re: Casey at PacBell
Casey wouldn't be bad. We just couldn't expect him to hit any better than he normally does.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jun 19, 2006 6:31 PM PDT up reply actions

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