The Giants need He-Man...or Craig Wilson

by Daniel on Jun 11, 2006 10:20 PM PDT

I..DON'T...HAVE THE POWER!

The Giants don't have the power of Grayskull, nor do they have the power of...uh, like, hitting extra-base hits. I noticed this in May and wrote about it here, and things haven't changed a bit.

While the Giants are 1st in the league in triples thanks to Triples Alley, they are 2nd to last in the league in doubles, and 3rd to last in home runs -- both of which are much more common than triples.

Adding to that already damaging fact is that the Giants are dead last in the league in steals and steal %, so they aren't supplementing all the singles they hit by swiping a bag here and there to get into scoring position.

The Giants are basically a station-to-station, singles-hitting team. And when hit a lot of singles and can't steal bases, it leads to...

...things like leading the league in double plays hit into.

Where can help come from? Almost nowhere, really. The way the position players are set, the only place that I can see the Giants making a change is at 1st base. The outfield, along with 3rd base, SS, 2nd base, and catcher all have players there that are either immovable because of value (or perceived value, in the case of Pedro Feliz and Mike Matheny), or because of their contract (i.e. Ray Durham and Steve Finley).

So, 1st base it would have to be. Who's available? Darned if I know, but here's a list of players performing well enough at that position on teams that actually may give them up:

Craig Wilson, Pittsburgh

Yes, that's it. All the other 1st baseman that are any good are either on teams that are chasing a pennant, or would figure large in a weaker team's hopes to rebuild.

I tend to think the Giants would have to give up a lot to get Wilson, but if they are serious about this last go 'round with Bonds, they'll pay it. Time's a-ticking, too -- the Cardinals have been reported to have an interest in Wilson, so...

...chop-chop Sabes.

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

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Comments

Re: The Giants need He-Man...or Craig Wilson

Oh, I forgot -- Wilson is currently making about 3.3 million, and is on a one-year contract, too, so the Pirates may decide to move him if they think they won't be able to pay him next season. He's been consistently solid with the bat, so I'd imagine he'd want a few more million per with a much longer contract next season.

I didn't know he was on a one-year contract, so perhaps the asking price won't be so high...besides, you know how the Giants just love to trade with the Pirates.

I'd be the best at everything, but I'd need everyone else to either die or stop being better than me first.

by Daniel on Jun 11, 2006 10:59 PM PDT reply actions

Re: The Giants need He-Man...or Craig Wilson

Wilson will be cheap because the Pirates are, for lack of a better word, stupid. Remember, they think he strikes out too much.

DFA Everybody

by JakeS on Jun 11, 2006 11:35 PM PDT reply actions

Sabean carefully weighing K-ratios

We can't use him.

Doesn't strike out enough.

by Moggeee on Jun 12, 2006 12:13 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: Sabean carefully weighing K-ratios

Ya, but can he hit into a double play once or so a game? If so I say we nab him !

DFA Alou the Elder !

by PacBellBoozer on Jun 12, 2006 12:25 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: Sabean carefully weighing K-ratios

No prob. Send bucs bonzer, nathan, and liriano (sec. 125.543a the "do-over" rule from "MLB seldom used Rules Amendments to help floundering franchises unfuck themselves)

He blames Tomko and I blame Magowan, Alou, Morris, Benitez, El Dopo and a player to be named sooner rather than later--Lance Tool Niekro

by E Ticket on Jun 12, 2006 8:40 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: The Giants need He-Man...or Craig Wilson

By no means is Wilson who I'd take first, but he's the best of what I figure to be available...which is hardly anyone. I'd rather have Nick Johnson or Justin Morneau, but I'm doubting the Nationals or Twins would part with those guys.

I'd be the best at everything, but I'd need everyone else to either die or stop being better than me first.

by Daniel on Jun 12, 2006 1:06 AM PDT reply actions

Re: The Giants need He-Man...or Craig Wilson

Forget Morneau, Sabean is not allowed to deal with the twins anymore.

by sfgreg on Jun 12, 2006 1:18 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: The Giants need He-Man...or Craig Wilson

Giants would not pull trigger on Morneau even if he was availabe. Unless he had Parkinson's disease of the Bat.

He blames Tomko and I blame Magowan, Alou, Morris, Benitez, El Dopo and a player to be named sooner rather than later--Lance Tool Niekro

by E Ticket on Jun 12, 2006 8:46 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: The Giants need He-Man...or Craig Wilson

Hell we could have had Uggla for nothing. Morneau? Really, you dislike him that much. I think that he could be okay with a change of scenery. Sure he needs better plate discipline, but he did "okay" last year with a host of medical ailments. This season--I have the bastard on my fantasy team--he's been okay, but the freaking Twins won't let him play vs. lefties. Yes, I know this is "because he sucks vs. lefties." But, my point is that he's doesn't get a chance to improve or to prove himself. I wouldn't be surprised to see him around .250 with 30 home runs AND he's probably cheap (haven't looked).

This is where we need an imaginative front office. Morneau's better than our 1b options right now and he's undervalued and I'd take him (still prefer Vernon Wells or Carlos Beltran).

by Kent @ McCovey Chronicles on Jun 12, 2006 8:44 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: The Giants need He-Man...or Craig Wilson

Seriously - Wilson is my dream, because he's an FA to be and the idiots known as the Pirates think Burnitz would be a better player. I don't think this is a playoff team at all, but given the Giants are going to try and compete anyway, Wilson would probably be a 2 or 3 improvement over the dregs we have at 1b.

by Aadik on Jun 12, 2006 6:53 AM PDT reply actions

Re: The Giants need He-Man...or Craig Wilson

I read in one of the rumor mills that the Pirates had asked the Cardinals for Anthony Reyes for Wilson and the Cards declined. If I'm not mistaken Reyes is one of their top pitching prospects sp it makes me think the Bucs are going to ask for legitimate talent in exchange for Wilson. Any suggestions for who the Giants could part with in any such deal?

Lemaster10

by Lemaster10 on Jun 12, 2006 9:11 AM PDT reply actions

Re: The Giants need He-Man...or Craig Wilson

It seems Snatchwig would be primary trade bait, along with Hennessy and Linden. Possibly one of the relievers as well (Taschner, Wilson, Correia, etc)

by mxmob33 on Jun 12, 2006 9:21 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: The Giants need He-Man...or Craig Wilson

Under the new PED rules/testing, I don't think He-Man would look quite the same, and would probably only hit about 20 home runs...

by Josh from The New Giant Thrill on Jun 12, 2006 9:42 AM PDT reply actions

With or Without PEDs

At ATT, Wilson will have impressive warning track power, and strike out so much that he'll make Feliz look like a contact hitter.

by Moggeee on Jun 12, 2006 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: The Giants need He-Man...or Craig Wilson

Buy low on Brad Wilkerson.

David
SPORTSZILLA - kickass sports writing

by David A. Arnott on Jun 12, 2006 11:10 AM PDT reply actions

Re: The Giants need He-Man...or Craig Wilson

I should clarify that I think we're done, and that a move to pick up players should be with an eye to next year.

David
SPORTSZILLA - kickass sports writing

by David A. Arnott on Jun 12, 2006 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: The Giants need He-Man...or Craig Wilson

Am I just being a humorless Fuck here, or are you serious?

Done in June?

by mxmob33 on Jun 12, 2006 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: The Giants need He-Man...or Craig Wilson

I realize this argument is analagous to the White Sox's White Flag Trade argument, but bear with me... The Dodgers are an elite team in the NL. Barring swathes of injury (hasn't that ALREADY happened?), they simply are. They have a loaded farm system to plug in prospects with confidence whenever anyone goes down. They're in first place despite having a bad record in one-run games (12-16, thank you Danys Baez!), and despite underplaying their short-season Pythag. record by three games. The Giants are right about where they're expected to be according to short-season Pythag. (underplaying by one game), but they've also got an unreasonably good record in one-run games (18-11). I think Bonds is what he is now--he won't return to 2002 form--and when teams figure out that he just isn't slugging, they'll challenge him more and the OBP will drop. I think Moises is what he has been last season to this season; still very good to great when he's playing, but bound to lose significant playing time to injury (and it may get worse). I think the pitching staff is still two years away from potential greatness (Cain, Lowry, Lincecum in the rotation, plus [pleasepleasepleaseplease] vintage Dontrelle?). And finally, I think we could get better value if we start now. If the plan is to build up to three years from now, spending the money freed up by Bonds's retirement, by Finley's departure, by Morris's departure, by Matheny's departure, and building around the wheat separated from the minor league chaff (Frandsen, Burriss, Lincecum, God knows who else), plus the mid-career guys (Winn), plus God knows who will be a good free agent signing (Crawford?), then we ought to gather guys now who will be rising in abilities three years from now instead of gambling that Players X, Y, and Z won't completely fall of the cliff while still on our roster (The 3B Who Shall Not Be Named, Timmy).

Right now, the White Sox would probably jump at the chance to acquire Omar/Mo in a package deal. They'd move Pods to CF, Omar would be playing for a fellow Venezuelan... It makes too much sense. We could demand McCarthy, Josh Fields, and a few other chits. God knows what the Mets/Yankees would offer for Morris. The Reds have an old-school GM that might jump at an offer for Benitez. I'm just saying that, even if we think Schmidt is back and can still be worth our while three years from now, we can still get great value out of our MLB roster. This is NOT a World Series winning team. It just isn't. Give us two more higher tier starting pitchers, and then I can buy our chances, but it just isn't happening this year. You wouldn't want to do that, anyway, as it would drain a decidedly unloaded farm system.

Feel free to dismiss this as the raving of a severely disappointed Giants fan. I'm getting help, I swear.

David
SPORTSZILLA - kickass sports writing

by David A. Arnott on Jun 12, 2006 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: The Giants need He-Man...or Craig Wilson

I'm sorry -- there just isn't any way that giving up in June when about four games out is any sort of way to think...ever.

Any logic you may bring into an argument after saying a team is done in the Giants present circumstances is blown out of the window.

No, it certainly doesn't look good, I'll admit, but: 1) this division hasn't yet proven it's much better than last season, and 2) the Giants were a worse team last year in a worse position later in the season and still got to within a couple of games of first.

I'd be the best at everything, but I'd need everyone else to either die or stop being better than me first.

by Daniel on Jun 12, 2006 7:32 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: The Giants need He-Man...or Craig Wilson

It won't happen. Magowan is a fan. A fanatic. Really. He wants to win today. (and even yesterday if the old guys on the roster are any indication) He wants to win Every Season. Including this season. He will instruct Sabaen to get those players (within the constraints of his self-imposed salary cap) that they mutually agree upon that give them the best chance of winning now--not 2 years, or 3 years from now.

His problem is not desire, it is the choices that he and Sabaen make that are the problem.

He blames Tomko and I blame Magowan, Alou, Morris, Benitez, El Dopo and a player to be named sooner rather than later--Lance Tool Niekro

by E Ticket on Jun 12, 2006 8:00 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: The Giants need He-Man...or Craig Wilson

E, what is your source on this?

by zenbitz on Jun 15, 2006 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: The Giants need He-Man...or Craig Wilson

done in june. i couldnt agree more. i say fire sale . get some good and something this franchise hates but YOUNG TALENT, lets look to next season and all the available payroll. last thing we need is to mess that up with undesireables from the bucs. WHEN THE BONDS ERA ENDS WE WILL WIN. mark my worrds next season will be spent becoming a team and the following season we go on our run. i am counting the days barry takes his knees, tv's , recliner, media problems, attitude, posse, bad attitude and any other baggage i left out. WOW. THATS A LOT. come to think of it for a senior citizen with sub par numbers and 1/4 total payroll.

beatLAallday

by beatlaallday on Jun 12, 2006 12:40 PM PDT reply actions

Fire sale, eh?

Not to be offensive, but this is why you're not running a MLB team -- running fire sales in June when you're team is a few games out would get you fired fairly quickly, not to mention getting the unique opportunity to have an entire metro area hate you.

I'd be the best at everything, but I'd need everyone else to either die or stop being better than me first.

by Daniel on Jun 12, 2006 7:58 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: The Giants need He-Man...or Craig Wilson

beatLAallday

by beatlaallday on Jun 12, 2006 12:40 PM PDT reply actions

Re: The Giants need He-Man...or Craig Wilson

oh yeah .NO CRAIG WILSON . hes not in our plans for the future.

beatLAallday

by beatlaallday on Jun 12, 2006 12:41 PM PDT reply actions

Re: The Giants need He-Man...or Craig Wilson

That's the point, fella. He's on a one-year contract, the Giants are trying to do something one last time with Bonds...remember?

I'd be the best at everything, but I'd need everyone else to either die or stop being better than me first.

by Daniel on Jun 12, 2006 7:33 PM PDT up reply actions

Fairy Tales DO Come True, It Can Happen to You...

...When you're Old in the Knees but residing in the West...

The tragedy is WE ARE NOT DONE.

With Bonds back, even at 50 percent Impulse Power (his ongoing 2006 level) we still are an even bet to win the Dreadful West.

Then it's FOUR AND OUT. Or, Schmidt, then FOUR AND OUT.

This is the West. Baseball's version of s Saharan Mirage. Even crap like us has a chance, a good chance to win this limpathon.

Magowan and Sabean like to hang championship banners, even if they're made of burlap. This division, this year, is a cheap way to get one.

by Moggeee on Jun 12, 2006 2:37 PM PDT reply actions

This is all insane talk -- ALL OF YOU!!

First of all, Craig Wilson would excerbate our existing problem -- our freakin' inability to hit right-handed pitchers, be they Ian Snell or Victor Santos, or Josh Johnson, or whoeverthefuct. There is absolutely no reason to give up a valuable (or even seemingly valuable -- shiny and illusory) prospect to get a guy who is going to walk at the end of the year and is doubtful to present a meaningful upgrade to the Sweeney/Niekro/(even Ishikawa) tri-headed platoonamajig.

Second of all, as Moggeee just wrote, WE ARE NOT DONE. A week ago, I was so excited for this upcoming homestand, anticipating that if veteran know-how was ever going to pay off, it would this week, but like the rest of you, my heart was ripped out of my chest by Tim Worrell and our lineup full of Caribbean retards who swing at slop nightly.

Does anyone here besides insane David from Sportzilla actually think that the Dodgers are an elite team??? They are one Nomar Garciaparra groin pull from offensive irrelevance, and their starting pitching is way more hapless than ours. At least we have a rejuventated Jason Schmidt -- they have Brad Penny, a great pitcher for sure (esp. against SF), but not exactly a beacon of durability. Besides Penny and Derek Lowe (Jamey Wright v2.0), the Dodgers have exactly ZERO dependable starters, AND Gagne is out again for what seems like the 18th time.

We have every right to be pissed at our team for their lackluster play. Just like last season the age is showing on the guys Sabean has collected, and I am dreading the dog-days of summer when I fear this lineup will fall upon itself, like so many old brittle bones forming a Jenga puzzle.... but we shouldn't lose hope.

Sabean, for all his arrogance and dependence on "veterans" over the years, has shown an increased willingness to use younger players over the debacle of the last 18 months. If we are going to truly upgrade our team, he'll get rid of Worrell and replace one of our current corner infield situations with a serious lefty bat. Or he'll trade for Sean Casey and I'll hang myself.

But seriously, it's only June 12th and we are THREE games back of the Dodgers. THE FREAKIN' DODGERS!!! If they were so elite, they'd have a 10-game lead, the way we've tried to give it away all season.

And honestly, maybe Sean Casey wouldn't be so bad. I don't know, I'm hurtin' guys. We need to win some games.

Mike.

Losing California Productions

by losingcalifornia on Jun 12, 2006 3:26 PM PDT reply actions

Re: This is all insane talk -- ALL OF YOU!!

>"Does anyone here besides insane David from Sportzilla actually think that the Dodgers are an elite team???"

I don't think they are now, but I think they will be by the end of the year -- after they trade some of their ample offensive depth for some more pitching.

>"They are one Nomar Garciaparra groin pull from offensive irrelevance"

Let me get this straight. The Dodgers, who lead the NL in BA, OBP, OPS and RUNS, with hardly any help from their best hitter of last season, is one Nomar injury from "offensive irrelevance"? They've scored 21 more runs than the 2nd highest scoring NL team -- which has scored just 27 more than the 9th place Giants -- and play in a pitcher's park, so they're the best offensive team in the league BY FAR. They boast more talented young hitters (Kemp, Martin, Aybar, Ethier, Guzman) than they have room for. More than any other team in baseball, they can afford injuries to their hitters, and have survived several already -- Kent, Mueller, Lofton, Garciaparra, Navarro.

Yes, their pitching is shaky. In fact, the only hope I have for the near future is that Colletti gets raped at the trading deadline while trying to bolster their staff. In the meantime, if you want to put some money on the Dodgers NOT winning this division, please e-mail me.

"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f***ing amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK

by Josh from Hollywood on Jun 12, 2006 6:06 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: This is all insane talk -- ALL OF YOU!!

>"Does anyone here besides insane David from Sportzilla actually think that the Dodgers are an elite team???"

>I don't think they are now, but I think they will be by the end of the year -- after they trade some of their ample offensive depth for some more pitching.

We'll see. I hope, like you state later, that Colletti bungles his first in-season trade.

The league will make their adjustments against their young hitters soon enough. I think Kemp, Martin, Ethier, and Aybar are solid hitting prospects, but virtually every rookie that enters the league has to eventually deal with advanced scouting. While I think all four of the aforementioned are good prospects, I don't think any one of them is such a stud where their hitting will be impervious to pitching adjustments. Guzman, I think is overrated and will be in the minors soon enough.

Drew, Garciaparra, Lofton, Kent, Mueller, Penny, et cetera... all I hear is injury-prone. Plus, they have Bret Tomko.

If things progress as they stand today, then yeah, the Dodgers are the favorites to win the division. But they have just as many flaws as the Giants, and as I wrote in my previous post, this season is now incumbent upon Sabean to improve, and salvage. He has to make a trade, for something better than Craig Wilson.

Losing California Productions

by losingcalifornia on Jun 12, 2006 6:48 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: This is all insane talk -- ALL OF YOU!!

For the record, I agree with you on Guzman. I don't like his swing -- long and awkward. Unfortunately, he's the only one who looks overrated to me. Ethier might just be a 4th OF, and Aybar may have to be a platoon player (doesn't look great batting RH), but I think that's the LEAST they'll be. Meanwhile, Kemp and Martin look like big-time building blocks.

My worst fear is that Colletti will get pitching help without having to give up Kemp or Martin. If I were him, I'd get Guzman back to AAA and use him as bait come July.

"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f***ing amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK

by Josh from Hollywood on Jun 12, 2006 8:05 PM PDT up reply actions

Comments

1. The Giants are hitting RHP better than LHP:
vs. RHP .266/.336/.425
vs. LHP .252/.344/.381

2. Craig Wilson hits righties better than Niekro, and lefties better than Niekro, and Niekro starts more than anyone else at 1B when he's not hurt.

2006 vs. righties
Wilson .258/.329/.461
Niekro .272/.324/.388
Sweeney .280/.311/.510

career vs. righties
Wilson .256/.344/.462
Niekro .230/.278/.356
Sweeney .265/.356/.416

2006 vs. lefties
Wilson .294/.400/.569
Niekro .214/.250/.405
Sweeney .000/.143/.000 (only 18 ABs)

career vs. lefties
Wilson .300/.408/.559
Niekro .293/.331/.587
Sweeney .197/.291/.299

3. I was going to write something about the Dodgers offense but Josh beat me to it. They aslo lead the NL in AEQR with 352 adjusted equivalent runs. The Reds are the only NL team really close, at 345, with the Mets 3rd at 330. The Giants are 11th at 294, just behind the Cardinals, Astros, Pirates and just ahead of the Rockies.

But I still think it's too early to give up on the season. A lot can happen in the next couple of months, if we're out of it at the trade deadline then look to see what you can get for Alou or Schmidt if you aren't going to resign him. Right now, I think we should be asking about Craig Wilson, don't give up a top prospect (and do we even have one now? Lincecum?) but see what he will cost. We can always trade him again in a month and a half.

by Nick Schulte on Jun 12, 2006 6:44 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Comments

That surprises me, but sniffs of small sample size. Plus, have any of you seen the way we've hit against mediocre right handed pitching lately? Maybe you've forgotten that the Giants hit .254/.313/.378 against RHP and .286/.338/.454 against LHP in 2005. Or that your 2006 total against RHP includes individual batting lines from Greene, Alou, Feliz and Vizquel that are well above their career norms and destined to regress towards the mean.
Have you ever seen Craig Wilson play? Whatever upgrade he represents over Niekro/Sweeney/Ishi is not worth whatever we'll end up giving up. Second time I've said that.
It's June 12th. Seems like a lot of you are awfully impressed by the Dodgers. I'm not.

Losing California Productions

by losingcalifornia on Jun 12, 2006 7:22 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Comments

the Giants shouldn't have to give up the farm, because Wilson is on a one-year contract.
he's a large upgrade over anyone the Giants have trotted out at first, and the stats support that. Look at Wilson's career, and you'll see consistency. The Giants' various options at 1st represent inconsistency, and not a lot of hope for more than mediocrity.

By the way, a lot of the Giants 2005 right-handed hitting problems came from one source -- the absence of Bonds.

I don't think the Giants can afford to break down all of the lefty/righty stuff at this point -- Wilson is likely the best available hitter at 1st base, period. If you have a chance to get him, and you want to get a little better to make a run this year, you get him.

It's really that simple.

I'd be the best at everything, but I'd need everyone else to either die or stop being better than me first.

by Daniel on Jun 12, 2006 7:43 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Comments

E will hate me, but I'd rather have an unappreciated Justin Morneau and an unappreciated and AAA'd Jason Bartlett for EME and...Crusty Alou...throw in a the ghost of Cody Ransom for good measure.

by Kent @ McCovey Chronicles on Jun 12, 2006 8:53 PM PDT up reply actions

E will hate me,

--may your sister sleep with a thousand dodger goats

He blames Tomko and I blame Magowan, Alou, Morris, Benitez, El Dopo and a player to be named sooner rather than later--Lance Tool Niekro

by E Ticket on Jun 12, 2006 9:30 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: E will hate me,

Holy shit, how'd you know that? Man, that's between us, don't let the rest of 'em know.

by Kent @ McCovey Chronicles on Jun 12, 2006 9:31 PM PDT up reply actions

Barnyard Fun

E, you got Kent's sister's phone number?

by Moggeee on Jun 12, 2006 10:59 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Comments

Good points (and you're in first).

by Kent @ McCovey Chronicles on Jun 12, 2006 8:48 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: This is all insane talk -- ALL OF YOU!!

Hm. Um, I never said getting Wilson was the best solution, only that it was likely the best given the situation -- there always could be options that I'm not privy to, of course.

Secondly...lighten up, man. I was just throwin' an idea out there for discussion, not giving you fodder to judge my sanity.

I'd be the best at everything, but I'd need everyone else to either die or stop being better than me first.

by Daniel on Jun 12, 2006 7:50 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: The Giants need He-Man...or Craig Wilson

Has anyone looked at ballpark-adjusted figures for Wilson? It's my impression that the NL Central, where he plays most of his games, has some real launching pads. I could be all wrong on this. But I'm with those who say it's way too early to give up on this season.

by NearestNorwich on Jun 12, 2006 8:16 PM PDT reply actions

Re: The Giants need He-Man...or Craig Wilson

Yeah..wait 'til we're 52-57, twelve games back.
I'm going to write that down now...

"Either you're yelling for us, or you're yelling at us." - bygone SF mgr with my initials, i.e. JB

by victor frankenstein on Jun 12, 2006 8:38 PM PDT reply actions

Re: The Giants need He-Man...or Craig Wilson

All afternoon and into the evening, I sat on my call to blow up the team; I let it go and enjoyed life. Now that I'm back home, I wander back here, read a couple responses, and I'm still for it. Nobody talks about the Mariners legitimately being in the race (despite being only 3 games out) because so many peripheral team stats and subjective assessment say they won't hang. I see the same thing with the Giants.

At the least, Sabes has to make some calls and come to an understanding with other GMs that if his team falters any more in the next month and a half that guys will become available. DBacks, Rox, Pads, Bums, Bucs, Fish, and Royals are out, as they're either in-division or would want prospects back. However, I'd be willing to trade prospects to the Rays for Carl Crawford, or consummate a similar deal for someone who's about to be arb-eligible. I mentioned the Pale Hose earlier... Would we want Andy Marte (Tribe)? Would the Tiggers be stupid enough to give up Joel Zumaya? Does Saltalamacchia make Brian McCann expendable, or vice versa (Bravos)? Would the Cards trade Reyes and some no-name for Schmidt straight up? God help us if we end up with Wily Taveras, but do the 'Stros have anyone else we might want in exchange for Mo?

Still bitter.

David
SPORTSZILLA - kickass sports writing

by David A. Arnott on Jun 12, 2006 9:53 PM PDT reply actions

Re: The Giants need He-Man...or Craig Wilson

The names you mentioned are exactly why it won't happen. Nobody recognizes them. They could all be Babe Ruth-Albert Pujols-Tome Seaver clones in a couple of years. Nobody will pay pacbell park money to see a rebuilding team-- they don't sell out now with bonds and schmidt and in contention. magowan is as impatient as any giant fan. he has no stomach for rebuilding as you can see from the lineup construct for the last several years. even if its a false hope, he hopes. he believes in the baseball fairytale that anything can happen in baseball as long as you're mathematically alive. he is obsessed with that.

you remember the 70's? me and and peter magowan, and jon miller and about 49,999 empty seats do. the novelty of new candlestick had worn off, and the giants were constantly dumping salary and "rebuilding"

it was not fun to sit in that concrete port-a-potty in windchill 45 degree weather and watch bobby murcer and charlie williams and a bunch of stiffs from phoenix and amarillo named ed halicki and john the cunt montefusco.

not. going. to. happen.

i could be wrong. (disclaimer if magowan/sabaen come out of their stupor)

He blames Tomko and I blame Magowan, Alou, Morris, Benitez, El Dopo and a player to be named sooner rather than later--Lance Tool Niekro

by E Ticket on Jun 12, 2006 10:41 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: The Giants need He-Man...or Craig Wilson

People watch winning teams. The Giants haven't been selling out every game even with Bonds/Alou playing more or less every day. 10,000 people showed up at the Stick when the team sucked. 35,000 people showed up when they were good.

David
SPORTSZILLA - kickass sports writing

by David A. Arnott on Jun 12, 2006 11:07 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: The Giants need He-Man...or Craig Wilson

Which is to say that making the team better for two-three years from now is a much better option from a business point of view than sitting on the decaying 2000 All Stars.

David
SPORTSZILLA - kickass sports writing

by David A. Arnott on Jun 12, 2006 11:30 PM PDT up reply actions

Really?

With Bonds and Alou playing more or less everyday?

The Giants have played 63 games -- Bonds has played in 48 of them, and Alou has played in 29 of them.

That's not quite everyday...

I'd be the best at everything, but I'd need everyone else to either die or stop being better than me first.

by Daniel on Jun 12, 2006 11:33 PM PDT up reply actions

Not every day...

But it does qualify them for early Social Security payments.

by Moggeee on Jun 12, 2006 11:49 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Really?

I should have been clearer. Thinking "one or the other", typing what I did... but it only inadvertently illustrates my point, that the "stars bring the fans" only applies to the greatest superstars at their peaks. Win, and they will come. When the Giants are mediocre, the people trickle away, and if they ever SUCK for a while, as they will if the expected period with a dearth of talent comes, then the fans will really stay away. We ought to lay the groundwork for future seasons as best we can with what we've got now. Debt service gets supported by in-stadium advertising alone. It's time to buy more bingo cards.

David
SPORTSZILLA - kickass sports writing

by David A. Arnott on Jun 13, 2006 12:45 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: The Giants need He-Man...or Craig Wilson

BillieJean Randy Moffitt King...is NOT my mother...

"Either you're yelling for us, or you're yelling at us." - bygone SF mgr with my initials, i.e. JB

by victor frankenstein on Jun 13, 2006 1:25 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: The Giants need He-Man...or Craig Wilson

She/he's just a girl who claims that I am the one

Waiting for Travis, Nate, Marcus, and Nick P.

by Lyle @ McCovey Chronicles on Jun 14, 2006 6:32 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: The Giants need He-Man...or Craig Wilson

All this fire-sale talk is just silliness. Baseball is not won on paper, there's a reason they play the games. Taking the first 1/3 of the season and just projecting out the stats for the rest of the year will rarely turn out accurate in the end.

by mxmob33 on Jun 12, 2006 10:59 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: The Giants need He-Man...or Craig Wilson

I'm not just taking the records at the one-third mark and saying this is how we'll finish. I specifically leaned on peripheral information to try to project how the teams will do from here on out, and Josh added some more specifics above. Also, by mentioning subjective assessment, I'm getting at the idea that the expectations for this team at the beginning of the season shouldn't have been all that high, and they still aren't because they're not performing. Look at our "ideal" lineup. Starting Matheny means we're already hindered. Add Feliz and Niekro, and even with solid pros like Vizquel, Winn, and Durham, you need Bonds and Alou to play like they're still at their peaks in order to get beyond 15th In The Majors Status. And that's before getting to the rotation: Cain/Lowry are still on the developmental upswing, Morris was a wild card who could have been good to terrible, and, apparently, we drew "Crap-a-licious", Schmidt comes with red flags, though an optimistic view pegs him as solid to great averaging out to very good over the course of the season, and WrigCorrHenn can't be expected to be better than an adequate fifth starter. In the best of all reasonable scenarios, the Giants would have a true #1 in Schmidt, a true #2 in Morris (#2 meaning you love having him in your rotation, but wouldn't feel comfortable depending on him as an ace), another #2 in Lowry (as I recally, he has a scary list of PECOTA comparables... scary, as in not good), a #3 type guy from Cain's first full season, and a passable back of the rotation committee. Again, that's in an everything-breaks-our-way scenario, we have a top-six-in-MLB rotation. My sense is that a 50th percentile view of the whole staff (and someone really should look up the PECOTA numbers for us non-subscribers) is either in the neighborhood of what we're getting or a little better than what we're getting. They are what they are. If you want to advocate adding pieces in an attempt to make this team into a real playoff force this season, please do. I'd like to know how you'd do that without screwing the pooch for life post-Bonds.

My grammar is terrible right now. And I'm still bitter about this team.

David
SPORTSZILLA - kickass sports writing

by David A. Arnott on Jun 12, 2006 11:28 PM PDT up reply actions

And I'm still bitter about this team.

As we all should. Its not like their performance is a surprise, nor likely to change. But thats here. Magowan sees it differently. He always believes there is a chance to win--now.

It could even be exponenentially worse. The nagging injuries, by August and September could be exacerbated this year by the new "no greenies" allowed. Imagine old guys last year who were out of gas with them. Imagine even older guys this year without them. Dog days could turn into the end of days.

And all of this coming off a 3 game losing streak. Imagine what we will all sound like if the fellas rip off a run to the toilet like last June.

He blames Tomko and I blame Magowan, Alou, Morris, Benitez, El Dopo and a player to be named sooner rather than later--Lance Tool Niekro

by E Ticket on Jun 13, 2006 8:20 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: The Giants need He-Man...or Craig Wilson

Fuckers, leave Schmidt alone. He's fun to watch, especially if you're partial to dominating pitchers - which he once was, and who knows - maybe will be again! Is this unrealistic? Why can't we keep two starters who provide right-now hope? Or should I just stop tuning in for three years?
Yeah, fuckit, Deal 'em all. Mets are hot.Changing horses.....NOW.
(Psych!)

"Either you're yelling for us, or you're yelling at us." - bygone SF mgr with my initials, i.e. JB

by victor frankenstein on Jun 12, 2006 10:19 PM PDT reply actions