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Around SBN: Veterans Share Their Favorite Sports Memories

Hockin' LOOGYs

Pending free agents Steve Kline and Mike Stanton: Part something of an irregularly updated series.

A history of left-handed relievers of the past decade:    (Don't Stop Believin' starts to play in the background....)

Terry Mulholland
Doug Creek
Jim Poole
Rich Rodriguez
Alvin Morman
Alan Embree
Aaron Fultz
Chad Zerbe        ("Up and down the boulevaaaaaard....")
Troy Brohawn
Scott Eyre
Wayne Franklin
Kevin Walker
Jason Christiansen
Jeff Fassero
Jack Taschner
Steve Kline
Mike Stanton        (Streeeetlight people!)

Traded for: Jim Poole, Alvin Morman, Alan Embree, Wayne Franklin, Jason Christiansen, Steve Kline, Mike Stanton

Times the trade-for-a-lefty-specialist gag has worked: Once? Twice? (Embree and Kline. Too early to tell for Stanton....)

Times the gag turned into an absolutely brutal trade: No Morman, and the Giants might have made the playoffs in 1998, even though he was just a throw-in player to the Joe Carter trade. The Wayne Franklin trade is almost worse than the Pierzynski trade; sure, it isn't like Carlos Villanueva and Glenn Woolard are going to be All-Stars, but at least there was a good reason to think Pierzynski would help a team.

Number of players picked off the scrap heap who did just as well as the others: Most of them. Rodriguez, Eyre, and Fassero did just fine, for the most part.

Conclusion: Don't trade for lefty relievers unless it follows the Embree specs. Good stuff, past success, and a complete non-prospect going the other way. Actually, Dante Powell was only 24 when he was traded for Embree, so I guess he still could have rubbed it in our face. Before going to Powell's Baseball Reference page, I had no idea his full name was Le Jon Dante Powell. If I knew French for "the throw hits the mound, and caroms away!", I could have made a snarky joke there.

So, no trades for lefties. Bad. No.

Free agent replacements:

They're out there, and they're all about 35. Arthur Rhodes, Tom Martin, Jamie Walker, Alan Embree....oh, yeah, I love the offseason.

Free agent replacements that would actually help the team:

If they prevent a big contract from keeping Steve Kline on the team for three expensive years, all of them. But most of these guys are interchangable.

In-house replacements:

I still have no idea why Taschner gets hit so hard in the majors, but he'd be one the first line of defense. Pat Misch probably isn't going to be a starter in this rotation for a while, so it might make sense to have him take over the Fassero role next year.

Would bring Kline/Stanton back at...

Kline, 1 year/$1M with a team option
Stanton, 1 year/$1M with a team option

That's not probably going to cut it for either, especially Kline, but that's what I'd pay if it meant adhering to a strict budget. If it's a loose budget that hand handle an extra $2M or $3M on top, it wouldn't offend to have either back at a higher price for the short term.

Guess at actual salary, destination

No idea as to destination, but the salaries could be in the range of 1 year/$2M for Stanton and 2-year/$6M for Kline.

First choice to replace them?

Anyone with a decent history and reasonable salary demands, including Kline and Stanton. There are fair gambles to be taken with guys like Frank Brooks or Ryan Meaux. They wouldn't cost anything more than the league minimum, but there is something to be said for cost certainty. Guys like Kline and Stanton stinking wouldn't raise the same questions that a Meaux or Wunsch would. Give me a year or two of Jamie Walker, clearly the class of the group. Hopefully the World Series appearance doesn't raise his profile too much. Anything close to Scott Erye money? Forget it. Then I'll take a side of Taschner to round out the bullpen. I still believe.

Trade options

See above. Unless the reliever in question can get both righties and lefties out, trades are a waste of resources.

Conclusion

I like having both Kline and Stanton in the bullpen, but would rather see the Giants address other areas with their money. If I had to choose just one, I'd choose Stanton. He'll only require a one-year deal, and his breaking ball can still make people look stupid. He only made $1M last season, so maybe he'd come back for the same amount. It's pretty clear that the lefty specialist role is the last thing to worry about on the team.

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Re: Hockin' LOOGYs
no love for Joe Price?
We'd be pretty good if we didn't suck so bad.

by nostocksjustbonds on Oct 26, 2006 2:13 PM PDT reply actions  

Re: Hockin' LOOGYs
Personally, I long for the days of Kevin Rogers.
The Dodgers are evil.

by irwin on Oct 26, 2006 2:14 PM PDT reply actions  

Re: Hockin' LOOGYs
Kevin Rogers totally rocked in....uh....was it '93? Dang, I'm not getting any younger.
Waiting for Nate, Marcus, Nick, & Emmanuel

by Lyle @ McCovey Chronicles on Oct 27, 2006 6:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Hockin' LOOGYs
I miss Scott Eyre.  I opt for Sabes trying to work a deal like that again.  Maybe Taschner or somebody can have a lucky, from out of nowhere year like John Johnstone of the late 90's.

by out machine on Oct 26, 2006 2:29 PM PDT reply actions  

Re: Hockin' LOOGYs
Good god, we've barely healed the rift caused by the bitter Todd Greene furor, and now you want to rip the scab off by talking LOOGYs? Have mercy, Grant! Can't we all just get along?
"The first point is whether my brain is still operating...I'll figure that out after the season." - Felipe Alou

by EliminateMe on Oct 26, 2006 2:39 PM PDT reply actions  

Re: Hockin' LOOGYs
<NITPICK>

Alvin Morman came over with Jose Mesa and Shawon Dunston, not Joe Carter.

</NITPICK>

Mighty Casey would have taken Armando Benitez deep.

by Stuttering John Tamargo on Oct 26, 2006 2:44 PM PDT reply actions  

Re: Hockin' LOOGYs
I knew I should have checked that. Eh, it was in the same week. I forgive myself.

by Grant Brisbee on Oct 26, 2006 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

don't worry. As I said in another thread:
Mormans are fools.
Once more unto the breach, dear friends (where "breach" = another meaningless October.)

by Mayor of 311 on Oct 26, 2006 10:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Hockin' LOOGYs
I was all set to read this whole post, then Journey came on and I had a Pavlovian response to change the channel.

by Roger on Oct 26, 2006 2:47 PM PDT reply actions  

Re: Hockin' LOOGYs
If I remember right, Rodriguez we got in a trade with Arizona.

I agree, we go with Stanton, who will want reasonable money, plus he can be backup at closer, depending on what they do with that position or even in spite of what they do, closers sometimes just fall off the wagon just like that, as Brewers, Astros learned.  

Kline pitched well enough that he is going to still want big bucks, probably Eyre and Howry type money ($3M per), who are in the same age range and performance range.  I like him but pass.

I think $1M plus option could get Stanton.  His overall 2006 stats are not much better than his 2005 stats and his 2005 stats got him $1M and a trip to Washington.  Plus he's 40 for next season.  The main plus is he closed pretty well, so maybe make it $1.5M, that's still not too bad.

by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Oct 26, 2006 3:02 PM PDT reply actions  

Re: Hockin' LOOGYs
If I remember right, Rodriguez we got in a trade with Arizona.

Rich Rodriguez was signed as a free agent.  You're confusing him with Felix Rodriguez, who was acquired via trade with Arizona.

If you whine about Liriano, I will .gif you.

by Fog City Blues on Oct 26, 2006 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Hockin' LOOGYs
Oh yeah, that's right, Loogies, got it, thanks!

That reminds me of a story, don't think he is the same guy, probably not, but I think the guy's name was also Rich Rodriguez.  

I was taking Chabot College's summer baseball class, which, with so few people there, was basically you and a buddy taking turns hacking at the pitching machines offerings, which was a lot of fun, and you share dirty jokes while waiting for the coach to show up.  One day, the coach actually shows up with guys from the team and starts up a practice game.  I was a bit nervous behind the cage as I had never faced live pitching before.

An older gent was watching with me and introduced himself to me and pointed out his son to me, who was the pitcher.  From my spidey sense, I had the feeling that he viewed me as competition for his son, so when I relayed to him my trepidations over batting, he told me of his son's first time batting, how the ball hit him in the mouth and there was blood all over. He laughed.

Sufficiently spooked, when my turn came up, I took three lame-ass swings and was prepared to slink back to the waiting area when the third strike, which wasn't close, got by the catcher, and even though there was a batting cage there to contain the ball, I was alert enough to run to first and I was safe as he had trouble getting his hands on the ball.  I think I even eventually scored, but that was my first and only time against live pitching.

I still have that same mental image of a bloodied mouth come up whenever I tell this story, amazing how the mind works sometimes.

by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Oct 26, 2006 5:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Hockin' LOOGYs
I was going to post my opinion, but then you did it for me. Anyway, this is what I think, too.
Coming to you by proxy

by howtheyscored on Oct 26, 2006 5:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Hockin' LOOGYs
And don't forget the veteran savvy that Stanton brings.  Perfect.  Actually might be of some interest watching an old geezer close out for the Giants Kiddie Corps of 07.  

It could happen. duhduhduh-duhduhduh.

by E Ticket on Oct 26, 2006 7:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

Damn...
...I already have unenthusiastic transaction fatigue and we haven't even done anything yet. I'm really having a hard time getting excited about this winter. Surprise me, Sabean!
"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Oct 26, 2006 3:02 PM PDT reply actions  

Re: Damn...
Thanks for giving a name to the syndrome that has affected me since 2004.

by out machine on Oct 26, 2006 4:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

last thing to worry about on the team.
THE BALL DUDES!!!  WHAT ABOUT THE BALL DUDES!!!!

by E Ticket on Oct 26, 2006 4:56 PM PDT reply actions  

Thank god!
I was afraid you were gonna suggest Finley.
"The first point is whether my brain is still operating...I'll figure that out after the season." - Felipe Alou

by EliminateMe on Oct 26, 2006 5:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Hockin' LOOGYs
So, no trades for lefties. Bad. No.

Two of the worst trades of all time have been for lefty relievers

Bagwell for Larry Anderson [ok, technically he is right handed, but he is screwy enough to be a lefty.]

Giles for Ricardo Rincon.

The Dodgers are evil.

by irwin on Oct 26, 2006 5:12 PM PDT reply actions  

Need at least 2 LHP in bullpen
Stanton stated he enjoyed his short stint in The City and would like to re-sign. One year and an option years sounds fair.

Kline and Giants should negogiate a similar deal but monies should not exceed 2m yr. If he wants more then Giants should continue to look internally at Taschner (ouch), Misch, Threets etc.

by wilriv21 on Oct 26, 2006 5:14 PM PDT reply actions  

Re: Hockin' LOOGYs
good lord.  scooter and suppan describing a change-up.  KNBR here i come.
If worms had daggers, birds wouldn't f*ck with 'em

by the degenerate on Oct 26, 2006 6:17 PM PDT reply actions  

Re: Hockin' LOOGYs
I think they both should be walking. This team is not contending next year - spending $4 million on two guys who are not going to help in the future makes no real sense. Kline might net a draft pick, but Stanton is 41 - what good does he do us? Every other team recognizes the relief pitching is essentially fungible - the Rule 5 pickups, the minor league FA's, and what not - except the Giants. Hell, they manage to overpay for crap and get stuck holding the bag (see Worrell, Tim and Blownitez)

by Aadik on Oct 26, 2006 6:20 PM PDT reply actions  

Re: Hockin' LOOGYs
Frankly, I think Stanton's value as a spot closer could be very valuable in the process of developing Brian Wilson into the role or as a stopgap from having Kevin Correia have to take the one inning trip every few days (since KC is still holding out for a starting spot, but who I love as a Super-Fassero).

So that's at least two of the young guys who signing Stanton very potentially helps, which translates to helping "the future" of the bullpen. Sure, Mike could bust completely at 41 and with only the second half of last season going for him, but for 1/45th (based on generous estimates) of our available payroll, I think that's a chance worth taking on what I think is a pretty good chance he'll be effective.

Coming to you by proxy

by howtheyscored on Oct 26, 2006 7:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

For Grant:
I believe

le jet frappe le monticule, et carambole loin

is reasonably close to what you were looking for.

Waiting for Nate, Marcus, Nick, & Emmanuel

by Lyle @ McCovey Chronicles on Oct 27, 2006 6:46 AM PDT reply actions  

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