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2012 MLB Draft Snapshot - Power Hitters

The other night I was watching my new favorite show Clubhouse Confidential on MLB network. Brian Kenny does a great job, bringing in some of the best writers such as Joe Sheehan and Dave Cameron and pairing them off with baseball stick-in-the-muds like Larry Bowa. He keeps the number crunching fast paced, relatively simple and interesting. The show I was watching had to do with the Nationals possibly breaking camp with phenom Bryce Harper. Kenny dipped into the history of the greatest hitters in MLB history to demonstrate the possible struggles Harper might face. They covered Mickey Mantle’s famous first year, Al Kaline. Alex Rodriguez and Ken Griffey Jr. Then he dropped some old school footage on the most successful teenage great in MLB history: Mel Ott.

Star-divide

Here is the link to the piece:

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=20095071&c_id=mlb

Mel Ott was born in Gretna, Louisiana. Batted left, threw right. Played his entire career for the New York Giants. He was 5’9 and 170 pounds. He hit 511 Home Runs, with a slash line of 304/414/937. He led the national league six times, and led the Giants in HRs for 18 of his 22 years, consecutively from 1928-1945. He is the original Giants slugger. Grim fact I did not know: Ott died in a car wreck in 1958. Frankie Frisch and Carl Hubbell died similar deaths, Hubbell on the same date as Ott 30 years to the day.

So Ott went straight to the majors, in 35 games hit 383/393/417 as a 17 year old, 82 games hit 282/335/380 his 18 year old year and then went 124 games with 322/397/524 with 18 HRs as a 19 year old. That was the comparison year they were discussing with Harper. His 20 year old season was a huge breakout, 150 games, 328/449/635 with 42 round trippers, and the rest is history.

We all do this once in a while. All-time Home Run list. Cut it off at 500. Marvel at a bunch of the greatest hitters in baseball history, currently 25 strong. Aaron, Ruth, Mantle. Bonds and Griffey. Everybody has their preferences and grudges. It is always a hot button topic. Only half the teams in baseball even have one hitter on the list. Some have to share a hitter. The Cubs have Ernie Banks and Sammy Sosa. The Red Sox have Teddy Ball Game and a big piece of Manny Ramirez. The A’s have Jimmie Foxx, and have to share Mark McGuire and Reggie Jackson. Even the Yanks only have Ruth and Mantle, sharing Alex Rodriguez and Reggie. And every Giant fan knows how many we have. Four. We have four of the greatest sluggers in history, more than any other team. Only Ott played every game for the Giants, but there is no debate with Mays, McCovey or Bonds. They are Giants of the game.

It is also fun because the Dodgers have none. They try and put their stink all over the place, with 5 guys part timing it: Murray, Sheffield, Ramirez, Robinson and Thome. But none of the biggest sluggers for the Bums. They have to dip down into the low 400s to share Piazza and Duke Snider. Snider sits as the bottom guy on the 400 plus club with 407, 47th overall. Konerko should join the club and Big Papi has a pretty good chance if he can keep it up this year as well. In this new era Pujols is the only current player who will make a charge towards 600 and beyond. Harper could well be the next.

Why bring up home runs? They’re the most exciting part of baseball. They still matter to stats geeks. They lead highlight shows. The Giants don’t hit enough of them. This messes with our established slugging history and makes us surly. 24. 44. 4. And of course 25. Don’t have to say another word.

Current Giants who have the ability to hit home runs, reduced standard of the day, we are looking for power of over 20 HRs a year.

Pablo Sandoval. Currently has 20-30 HR power, some people think he can bump it to plus 30 a year.

Buster Posey: solid 20-30.

Aubrey Huff: has 7 years of over 20, 2 of those over 30.

Brandon Belt: quit laughing, he has the potential to hit 20-30. I said potential.

Melky Cabrera, Freddy Sanchez, Angel Pagan, Nate Schierholtz all fall into the 15 and under category. Whoever plays RF eventually might surprise, but it will be a surprise.

Potential in the system:

Tommy Joseph has 38 HRs in 2 years of the minors. He will be tested in the Eastern.

Brett Pill has 84 HRs in 6 years of the minors. He hit 25 last year in Fresno. He will most likely make the 25 out of spring training.

Adam Duvall hit 22 HRs in the Sally last year. It may have been against some not-stellar pitching. He will hit some more in San Jose this year.

Chris Dominguez hit 18 HRs in 2 stops last year. He will most likely move to Fresno but there is a chance they’ll throw him back to the Eastern.

Recent draftee Andrew Susac has the most usable power potential of the bunch. He should be a 20 HR guy. That is all potential though, he has to suit up in San Jose.

Recent draftee Ricky Oropresa has light tower power potential, but has to prove its not just batting practice generated. He will either go to Augusta or join Susac in SJ.

There is also the sleeper Alex Burg. He hit 14 at San Jose, he will be tested by the Eastern as well.

And finally Angel Villalona is the wild card of the organization, coming back from 2 years of exile from murder charges in his native Dominican Republic. As a former top ranked prospect, it is completely impossible to predict how it turns out. His batting practices were legend, his games filled with fitness issues and attitude, and he was one of the youngest players ever in San Jose. He most likely would do extended spring training and then Augusta or San Jose, but he first has to get his feet wet on American soil.

And we’re done! So there aren’t any Bryce Harpers in the organization. In this day and age, every top hitting prospect is hugely hyped. A once a decade or generation talent like Harper is so widely scouted there just aren’t the surprises of the golden era. Commerce Oklahoma. Birmingham Alabama. The hometowns of legend are now replaced with showcases and travel teams. Nobody cares where ARod or Harper grew up.

Edit: Honorable mention HRs: SJ: Gary Brown hit 14, Jarrett Parker hit 13, Hector Sanchez had 11. In Richmond I forgot about Roger Kieschnick, who had 16. Kieschnick is fading, but should be included in power potential.

My theory is the Giants are one bat away from ignition. Really it is 2 bats, because it depends on Belt proving out as a viable major leaguer. If you combine Sandoval and Posey with Belt and a slugging corner something – RF/LF and batting right handed preferred, you suddenly have a pretty nice middle of the order. There is a whole lot of if in that sentence, I know. The Giants need a straw to stir the drink. They need it sooner than later, and don’t have time to wait around for a HS bat to develop. So its not a great situation in that regard. When does Andrew McCutchen hit free agency again?

I am trying to rank these guys seriously. The ranking is by power potential. Looking for the best sluggers in the 2012 draft, across all positions. The rub of course is the Giants won’t have a high probability of getting any of these guys with the 20th pick, and the ones that drop might go to college to chase the really big bonus of a top 5 signing bonus in a couple of years.

Top 12, ranking order: Victor Roache, Joey Gallo, Adam Brett Walker, Mike Zunino, Keon Barnum, Ron Miller, Richie Shaffer, Brian Johnson, Byron Buxton, Courtney Hawkins, Christian Walker, Stryker Trahan, Lewis Brinson

First casualties of the CBA: Jameis Winston and Anthony Alford, highly touted preps who will definitely go football.

Also considered, alpha order: Alex Bregman, Carlos Correa, Josh Elander, John Hogan, Peter O’Brien, Andrew Rash, Rock Rucker, Preston Tucker, Nick Williams, Trey Williams, Jesse Winkler

1. Victor Roache, Junior from Georgia Southern (OF)

6’1 225 R/R 9/17/1991

The Goods: Led the nation with 30 HRs even with these new NCAA bats. Looks athletic enough to stick in the outfield instead of moving to 1B. Punishes the baseball with very good bat speed.

The Bad: Contact issues. Struck out 42 times each year. 151 ABs in 2010, 230 ABs in 2011. Not fast, but moves well for a football player sized guy. Raw from picking up baseball late and cold weather guy from MI, but has taken a nice step forward last year.

The Stats: 326/438/1216 last year at Georgia Southern.
The Ranks: BA#9, Mayo #10

The Giants: The only chance of him falling is if teams get scared off by his struggles with breaking balls or he has a terrible year. Tons of hype. The white whale.

2. Joey Gallo. HS from Gorman HS (NV), LSU commit (1B/3B/P)

6’4 200 L/R 11/19/1993

The Goods: Top potential power from the HS ranks with 25 HRs in high school. Light tower power, roped a legend at PetCo at PerfectGame. He also pitches, right-handed and sits in the low 90s. Easy swing with plus bat speed.

The Bad: Big time contact issues to go with the swing. Most likely profiles at 1B due to speed and glove.

The Stats: HS: 471/558/1198
The Ranks: BA#21, Mayo #23

The Giants: By the 20th pick, will Gallo’s advisors be done with the draft if he falls? Is he a better project than Tommy Joseph? While one might dream of Adrian Gonzalez one other comp is Freddie Freeman. Do you want to dream on Freddie Freeman?

3. Adam Brett Walker, Junior from Jacksonville (1B/OF)

6’5 225 R/R 10/18/1991

The Goods: Legitimate power to all fields with a long swing. Giant of a man who comes from an athletic family; runs a 6.8/60. Patient hitter and a hard worker.

The Bad: He had an awful Cape against advanced pitching, and struck out 56 times in 134 ABs. He may not be athletic enough to stick in the OF despite the speed, his future may be 1B. If the hit tool doesn’t work, the power is sort of pointless.

The Stats: 409/486/1168 at Jacksonville, 13 HRs
The Ranks: BA #31, Mayo N/R

The Giants: This guy might be the 1-B to Roache. The questions are can his contact issues be fixed and how athletic he is in the field. There should be hype that might take him up near Roache or issues that drop him into the Barr wheelhouse.

4. Mike Zunino, Junior from Florida (C)

6’2 215 R/R 3/25/1991

The Goods: Best catcher in the draft, Pops is a Reds scout, had catching gear since he was 6, student of the game, very good power and the long swing that goes along with it so much of the time. Natural leader, pull hitter, built, and he took on the SEC and kicked it in the jaw.

The Bad: Really not much. That long swing, and maybe some struggles with offspeed pitches. This guy is a beast.

The Stats: SEC player of the year, hit 371/442/668 in 2011.

The Ranking: BA #5, Mayo #5

The Giants: Not a chance of him falling.

5. Keon Barnum, HS from King HS (FL), commit to Miami (1B/OF)

6’4 225 L/L 1/16/1993

The Goods: Lefty bat with excellent bat speed. Strong arm, but most likely a 1B. Power to all fields but big time pull power.

The Bad: He is old for his age, yet has raw skills. He will likely profile at 1B, although he runs a 7.0/60. His swing is long and he’s prone to strikeouts.

The Stats: 491/654/964 SLUGGING. He walked 26 times to go along with 55 ABs. SSS
The Ranks: BA #88, Mayo #42

The Giants: Not sure what kind of bonus demands this guy would have, not being a top ranked guy. The comp was Fred McGriff. That is something to dream on. Left handed 1B with that kind of size of course brings up Stretch. And that’s a stretch. Still, very interesting guy.

6. Ron Miller, HS from Serra HS (CA) commit to UNLV (1B/3B)

5’11 215 R/R 1/7/1994

The Goods: Excellent raw power and bat speed. Very simple swing, coming from a compact muscular body. Should be able to handle third, and has the arm for it or the OF.

The Bad: Swing can get long. He isn’t fast, his times were 7.22/60.

The Stats: 459/544/1125 with 34 hits, only 1 HR. Doubles machine.
The Ranks: Unranked

The Giants: This guy was recently raved about by Klima, you can check the report there. He has a really nice swing. He is falling through the cracks, not listed in BA, Mayo or ESPNHS but the latter has a great write up and video on him.

7. Richie Shaffer, Junior from Clemson (1B/3B)

6’4 195 R/R 03/15/1991

The Goods: This guy might be 1-C to Roache/AB Walker. At the moment he has the most usable power of the three. He has plus power, and he slugged six HRs in the Cape this summer. He has a strong arm that could profile at the outfield corners in addition to 3B.

The Bad: Slow runner, his range may move him to first. His bat has some holes in his swing, particularly inside stuff.

The Stats: Clemson Career: 318/426/981 with 20 HRs

The Ranks: BA #26, Mayo #25

The Giants: It depends on how athletic he is and if they can fix his swing or live with the Ks. Personally I love the three true outcome guys. Seems like he is athletic enough for RF because of the arm. I want to know more.

8. Brian Johnson, Junior from Florida (P/1B)

6’3 225 L/L 12/07/1990

The Goods: Very interesting 2-way player. He has some of the best raw power in the entire draft, hitting from the left side. He also profiles as a mid-rotation lefty with a big frame, an innings eater type with the hitting bonus. A vet of Team USA and a big intangible for a very high octane Florida squad, this guy needs a serious look for sure. On the batting side, he has Ryan Howard comps, he hit 3 HRs for Team USA in 4 games. This guy definitely is a multi-tasker, he pitched games on the Cape in addition to the CWS and the national team. On the pitching side he has a 3/4 delivery with good sink. 4 pitches, a fastball, slider, change up and curve. I believe the first 3 are rated as plus pitches. Fastball goes up to 92, so he’s not fireballing but has an advanced feel for the plate and is aggressive with hitters.

The Bad: Is middle of the rotation projection bad? Scouts and reviews seem very split down the middle on which way he should go, slightly leaning towards pitching. The Stats: 2011 NCAA: 8-3, 3.62 ERA in 15 starts, 79 IP, 72Ks/15 BBS 1.17 WHIP

The Rank: BA #8, Mayo #15

The Giants: Might have a safety pick with this guy. His power tool could work if he can pick up 1B.

9. Byron Buxton, HS from Appling County HS (GA), commit to GA (OF)

6’2 190 R/R 12/18/1993

The Goods: 5-tool HS guy who is getting huge hype. Very fast with line-drive gap stuff going on now but enough power potential that he’s getting talked about in the top 5. He can stick in CF with his speed.

The Bad: Not physically developed, that is all 5-tool dreaming. He has more tools than polish with the raw talent.

The Stats: 2nd in the UnderArmour home run derby
The Ranks: BA #3, Mayo #9

The Giants: Don’t have a chance of drafting this guy, who has Upton brother comps.

10. Courtney Hawkins, HS from Carroll HS (TX), commit to Texas (OF/P)

The Goods: He has shown plus plus power, to all fields. Very good bat speed with some explosion off the bat. Plus arm in the OF with 6.60/60 speed and runs well once underway. Also pitches, went 10-2 with 2.35 ERA and 81Ks,

The Bad: He is very raw. He has some swing mechanic problems involving lunging at the ball.

The Stats: 410 BA 940 SLG 15 HRs 22 SBs
The Ranks: Unranked

The Giants: Most likely a pretty strong commit to Texas. This guy seems less well rounded and not as fast as Buxton. He has demonstrated more power so he should maybe ranked ahead of Buxton but I got scared of all the national hype.

11. Christian Walker, Junior from South Carolina (1B)

6’0 220 R/R 3/28/1991

The Goods: Power hitter who was tough enough to play through a broken hammate bone in Omaha. This one might get scoffed at, but he seems like a patient hitter with good pop who might take it to the next level this year. His teammates call him the Terminator.

The Bad: Like other South Carolina guys, not as much scout hype. Might not have enough power to be a MLB 1B, at least not a prototypical one.

The Stats: 361/442/1006 with 9 HR, 32 BBs/26Ks
The Ranks: Unranked

The Giants: Wait and see what he does this year. He is one of the keys to a good team in college, and maybe the broken hammate is holding back the hype.

12. Stryker Trahan, HS from Acadiana HS (LA), Ole Miss commit (C)

6’1 220 L/R 4/25/1994

The Goods: Left handed catchers don’t grow on trees. Short stroke, excellent bat speed. Lots of power potential with solid contact. He is fast, different showcases had different speeds, but 6.54 to 6.80 is excellent for a guy built like a fullback. He is named for the Burt Reynolds TV show “BL Stryker”. Pop times under 2.0.

The Bad: Interestingly, its Mayo who says he may have to move off of position. BA loves him at catcher. The usual batting language with power bats is thrown around.

The Stats: 460/545/736 – the video game type stats you want to see in HS players.

The Ranking: BA #12, Mayo #24

The Giants: I bet BA is more right than Mayo. If he drops, it becomes a signing bonus issue at #20. Should they try? YES! The more Cajuns in this organization the better, says I. He’s left handed, he’s built like a fullback but runs like a tailback.

13. Lewis Brinson, HS from Tamarac HS (FL), Florida commit (OF)

6’3 180 R/R 5/8/1994

The Goods: Sort of a sleeper, this guy looks like a possible 1-B to Buxton. He has comps to Dexter Fowler because of his wiry build, but he is supposed to have more power. He has above average bat speed, 6.5/60 and should fill in his frame. He should be able to stick in CF with his speed, range and arm.

The Bad: Extremely raw. Chasing 5 tool players is always extremely risky. He has some batting stance issues.

The Stats: Won the Underarmour HR Derby, over Buxton. 473/623/1496.
The Ranks: BA #51, Mayo #29

The Giants: Wendell Fairley. Is Sabean in a bunker already?

Discussion

The HS OF class is quite large and deep. They will get a lot of hype. I’m going to do a post on just those guys.

Comment starters: Do the Giants need more power?

What is a better investment at the time of the draft, power or pitching?

Which guys look like logical picks?

Will bonus demands wipe out any potential at the 20 spot of landing power?

Who is the likeliest to slip?

What was your favorite HR of the year in 2011 for the Giants?

Who are guys I missed? I'm sure there are a ton.

The Giants had the small framed power guys (Ott), the 5-tool power (Bonds) and the big lanky and strong power (McCovey) as well as just simply, the greatest: Willie Mays. The beauty of baseball is there are all sorts of different body types who can play the game. Obviously the guys above most likely won’t be special players or most likely even make the majors necessarily. You never know for sure though.

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

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Giants Top 10 HR List

Plus a couple. SF/NY, just as Giants

646 Willie Mays
586 Barry Bonds
511 Mel Ott
469 Willie McCovey
247 Matt Williams
226 Orlando Cepeda
189 Bobby Thompson
186 Bobby Bonds
176 Will Clark
175 Jeff Kent
163 Jack Clark
157 Jim Ray Hart
157 Johnny Mize

by shankbone on Feb 16, 2012 3:12 PM PST reply actions  

My quick hits on your points:
- Giants could of course use more power, but I’d take pitching over power. It’s a personal preference. If they build the roster right, around pitching, outfield speed and OBP guys with only one or two boppers, they can live with a lineup that doesn’t hit a ton of home runs. I can live with a Nate Schierholtz hitting 10-15 homers in an outfield corner if he gets on base (I know, not Nate’s bag thus far in his career) and plays excellent D. If the decision comes down to a power bat vs. a power arm, I’m hoping they take the arm.
- I like Trahan, and am intrigued by your report on Shaffer. Curious to see what kind of year he has in the ACC.
- As we’ve covered already, Giants are historically loath to take a HS bat in the first round; chance of losing a crack at a power bat is thus mitigated. None of the high school players we’ve talked about sound like they’re anywhere close to sure things. Trahan I like because of the possibility he could play catcher. If they go for power, I’d feel much more confident going for a power guy (Roache, Shaffer).
- Favorite HR of 2011 for the Giants: I only get to see them on TV on the few occasions they play on ESPN or when they play the Braves, so I didn’t see this one live…but I can’t tell you how happy I was when I was watching Sportscenter while eating my cereal and saw the clip of Chris Stewart jacking one into the left field bleachers (against the Pirates I think?). Second place: I was at the game in Atlanta when Cody Ross broke up Randall Delgado’s no-hitter by sitting fastball on 3-1 and hitting it about 450 feet. Weird but true: I was present for both of the Boss’ no-no busting dingers while he was in a Giants uniform…I was at game 4 of the 2010 NLDS when he took Derek Lowe deep.
My own comment starter: As a fan, what is more exciting as a walk-off in a big game: A home run or a play at the plate? I go with option B; the idea of Buster whacking one up the gap in left-center and Panda chugging around from first while I’m screaming the whole time gives me goose bumps for some reason. Thoughts?

by leftyqb6 on Feb 16, 2012 7:26 PM PST reply actions  

The Chris Stewart first home run of the year was tops for me. Mota cheering the crowd was absolutely awesome. I also enjoyed Belt’s splash hit at the end of the year, it seemed like he just let all the crap of the year fade away and swing, he definitely looked happy with that one. Freddy Sanchez squaring up on the St. Louis rookie who was throwing very high 90s heat was great, that was the Huff 3HR game. Welcome to the majors kid.

I think the most exciting plays are at the plate. Another great game this year was Sandoval hitting for the cycle at Coors because he needed the triple last. As the ball started rolling away you knew he was going for it. That was awesome. Older fans who I will always be jealous of got to see Willie Mays take extra bases. I’m pretty excited about Gary Brown for that aspect of the game.

I think you’re right about pitching versus power. Especially in this era. There is a deep pool of RH arms for them to choose from, which would be the most logical and predictable move.

For the Giants to take a chance on AB Walker or Shaffer, they would have to really like the potential and figure on being able to make the adjustments necessary. They don’t have much of a track record with that yet, as Belt hasn’t done it at the highest level. The HS guys are fun to dream on, but I think the Giants don’t have any history with trucking that and they are most likely in a fill-in strategically spot, like with Panik. I really see them having a list of 3 pitchers with a safety list of 2 position players, both proven bats from college and the cape.

by shankbone on Feb 17, 2012 7:50 AM PST up reply actions  

Couple minor points on your 500 HR musings (which I loved): A’s have to share Foxx as well, as he hit a little less than half of his HRs with the Red Sox. Also, what the heck do the Dodgers have to do with Jim Thome?

But on to the more important stuff. Don’t know if you saw John Manual’s recent column on Victor Roache, but it’s a bit of an eye-opener. Only 5 current starters in baseball come from Roache’s profile of RH hitting college corner OF. The underlying lesson for me in that column is that, among other things, playing major league baseball requires extraordinary athleticism, and players who are already consigned to corner OF slots (or 1b, frankly) in college would seem to be somewhat short in that department. Being a RHH exacerbates the athleticism problem by introducing the platoon split problem.

Not saying that I’d stay away from Roache necessarily because of it, but it is an interesting consideration.

by Roger on Feb 17, 2012 5:33 AM PST reply actions  

Good catch with Foxx. I don’t know why I didn’t glace at his stats. He’s a Philly A in my mind, he played 6 1/2 years in Boston. Jim Thome was acquired for the 2008 playoff push, big deal about reuniting with Manny. He didn’t do a thing for them, not a single HR so he shouldn’t qualify. Frank Robinson had 19 HRs with them in 1972, that was a better example of attaching the Bum Stank.

I saw the article, just re-read it. It is an eye-opener, and what I came away from it is a RH corner OF gets a bit typecast with the stiffness label, and there is a good reason for that. Right on with the need for extraordinary athleticism point. Roache hit the most HRs in the NCAA since 2003 with these new bats, but one thing that gets glossed over is what type of competition is he facing in Georgia Southern’s conference? Its still impressive, but after starting out hot in the Cape, pitchers started throwing breaking balls at him and he didn’t have an answer. I’m sure teams took notice of that as well. I bet his raw power is just too much in the end, and he’ll go in the teens ahead of our pick. Just please not the 19th pick.

by shankbone on Feb 17, 2012 8:11 AM PST up reply actions  

Roache really doesn’t fit the profile that Manuel was peddling, though. He has above-average athleticism, plays RF with good D, and is not projected to be a LF/1B defensive liability as a pro. You’ll notice that the poster boy for the RH power hitting corner OF in Manuel’s article is Pat Burrell. Anybody that has seen Burrell and Roache play ball in college would never confuse the 2 in terms of their defensive abilities and athleticism.

I’ll also mention that shank’s description of Roache being “not fast” is wrong. BaseballAmerica’s scouting report on Roache coming out of HS stated that he had “plus speed”:

Roache was on the radar before this spring. BA’s scouting report on Roache coming out of high school in Ypsilanti, Mich., in 2009 described him as a player with power and plus speed, and the Tigers drafted him in the 25th round. But his rapid ascent to a potential top-round talent may have surprised some.

He’s fast, but he’s not that quick. It takes him a while to get up to top speed, but his top speed is well above average.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

by Fla-Giant on Feb 17, 2012 3:56 PM PST up reply actions  

Good call. I’ll try and tighten up on the descriptions. From the clips I’ve seen he moves very well for being a built guy. I didn’t write that very well.

by shankbone on Feb 17, 2012 7:30 PM PST up reply actions  

You can contextualize it certainly, but I don’t see anyway of avoiding that fact that Roache fits the profile. He’s a RHH and he plays a corner OF slot in college. That’s the entirety of the profile being described there — not how well he plays he, not how athletically he plays it, not what he’s projected to play, simply the fact that he plays corner OF in college and is RH. Whether Roache will overcome that or not is another matter, but unless you’re suggesting that no other RH college corner OF of recent vintage (other than handful in the majors now) had decent speed and athleticism it’s hard to say that the numbers don’t apply to Roache.

by Roger on Feb 18, 2012 10:31 AM PST up reply actions  

Yes, but I think that Manuel wrongly lumps in guys that played RF in college with guys that played LF. For the most part, the “stiff” athletes that Manuel is referring to played LF in college, while from what I’ve seen in following college ball over the past decade is that teams have a very large tendency to put their more athletic OF in RF and their stiffs in RF. For a certain percentage, that is probably due to the trend that the more athletic defenders tend to have stronger arms.

Excerpting from the article, Manuel admits that the prospects he’s profiling are mostly unathletic, poor-defending, bat-only guys:

The most common refrain I have heard over the years from scouts about righthanded-hitting corner bats (both among outfielders or first basemen) is that they are “stiff.” The image of the right-right stiff corner bat is ingrained in the game. Stiffness means limited defensive ability and, more importantly, a limited ability for a righthanded hitter to combat breaking balls from righthanded pitchers. Obviously it helps any amateur player to run well or really mash, but the righthanded-hitting corner oufielder usually doesn’t provide significant defensive value, so the offensive demands are higher for these players.

Since Roache is athletic, does have good speed, plays at least above-average D in RF, and can’t be described as “stiff” then I don’t think that he falls into the category that Manuel is identify – other than he is a RHH corner OF in college ball.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

by Fla-Giant on Feb 18, 2012 12:22 PM PST up reply actions  

Well, again RHH corner OF in college ball was the only parameters Manuel set, and when you look around the majors and can only find five of them playing regularly that’s pretty eye opening. And it’s eye opening exactly because of the objections you raise, which only makes the paucity of them in the majors the more glaring. Your arguments make what Manuel’s pointing out more impactful, not less. Because in spite of the things your noting, theyre still disappearing from major league lineups.

by Roger on Feb 18, 2012 4:56 PM PST up reply actions  

I just think that it’s cyclical. There’s also a paucity of college 3B in the majors and the power output for LF and 3B in the 2009-11 timeframe are well below the average from the 70s-2000s.

Once again, my point is that when you dig down and look at the type of corner OF that have been produced by college programs over the last 15 years Roache stands out from the crowd.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

by Fla-Giant on Feb 18, 2012 9:22 PM PST up reply actions  

The latest Baseball America scouting report says Roache has “fringe average” speed, so I’m guessing he’s slowed down since high school, which is typical.

by Dan from NM on Feb 18, 2012 7:04 PM PST up reply actions  

I’ve also seen reports that have him rated at above-average. IMO, the evaluators that are downgrading his speed are likely adding in a quickness factor. Not to mention that he broke his ankle in the fall of 2010 and had to have 8 metal screws inserted in it. His foot and lower leg were not operating at 100% capacity in the spring and summer of 2011 (when BA scouted him).

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

by Fla-Giant on Feb 18, 2012 9:28 PM PST up reply actions  

Adam Brett Walker in SoCal

Anybody that wants to see Adam Brett Walker in person should get out to USC this weekend. The Trojans are hosting Walker and his USC teammates in a 3 game series starting today and ending Sunday. Start times:
Friday = 6:00
Sat = 2:00
Sun = 1:00
http://campussportsconnection.com/ncaa/usc-trojans/baseball/195693/usc_opens_2012_season_by_hosti

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

by Fla-Giant on Feb 17, 2012 3:18 PM PST reply actions  

Vandy vs. Stanford

For those of you in the Bay Area, two of the top 10 teams in the nation will be playing a similar 3 game series this weekend. Stanford will be hosting Vanderbilt at the Sunken Diamond. Start times:
Friday = 5:30
Sat = 1:00
Sun = 1:00

LHP Mark Appel, LHP Brett Mooneyham, 3B Stephen Piscotty, OF Austin Wilson, and middle-infielder Kenny Diekroeger lead the Cardinal, while Vandy is led by OFs Tony Kemp and Mike Yastrzemski (grandson of the Boston’s HOFer), and young pitchers Kevin Ziomek and Tyler Beede.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

by Fla-Giant on Feb 17, 2012 3:31 PM PST up reply actions  

Going to try and drag my brother-in-law to a day game. Nice heads up.

by shankbone on Feb 17, 2012 7:27 PM PST up reply actions  

D'ohhh
The Trojans are hosting Walker and his USC Jacksonville teammates

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

by Fla-Giant on Feb 17, 2012 9:06 PM PST up reply actions  

shank, nice writeup to get our appetites sharpened.
And I love you saying Keon Barnum is old for his age. I know just what you mean

Marvin Barrios, come on I'll show you your bedroom. Don't stay on the phone too long to Panama, please.

by foothillsfan on Feb 17, 2012 4:53 PM PST reply actions  

Indeed. The birthdates on these guys scare the hell out of me.

by shankbone on Feb 17, 2012 7:28 PM PST up reply actions  

Adam Brett Walker

Went to the USC-Jacksonville game today. Sat in the visitor section, nice and empty, looked across the aisle, there’s Scott Boras. Walker had a pretty bad game. Couple K’s, one on a check swing looking and one swinging. Couple of dropped balls in the field on non-routine plays. He had a nice knock up the box and a stolen base right after in the sixth. Left at the stretch, J-ville got swept by the Trojans. Walker had 2 hits and 4 Ks in the series, 1 or 2 BBs.

Came away very impressed with Jacksonville CF Dan Gulbransen, he showed excellent speed and good instincts. Had a triple in the first, he got held up on a double he could have stretched later on. Made a great grab in center, and excellent range on the routine plays. He’s got a fair amount of hype as well. Lefty bat. Has a rep as a fitness freak.

Only one game, can’t really get too much of an impression. I have to agree though with what you said in some previous threads about Walker Fla-Giant. He looked lost going back on a pop fly, and just didn’t really look comfortable at all in the field. He did have a drive off the CF wall on friday night for a 2RBI double off our draft-pick MBA candidate Andrew Triggs, its a huge OF, that’s impressive. He also had a nice dig on a bad throw that I saw, and the SB was nice. He has obvious field presence due to his size, he’s a man among boys. Gut reaction about OF: no way.

I have to say I was impressed with Boras. He watched the whole game. He was on his phone once or twice. Met with one or two people, had a couple casual conversations but for the most part just hung out by himself and watched the game. I know the rep, but that’s what I saw.

by shankbone on Feb 19, 2012 7:50 PM PST reply actions  

I’d love to get to see some Terps games this year. From Aaron Fitt’s tweets at this weekend’s series in LA it sounds like they’ve got a nice accumulation of talent. Yeah Terps!

by Roger on Feb 20, 2012 6:28 AM PST up reply actions  

Terps pull one ot the weekend’s biggest upsets taking 2 of 3 at UCLA.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

by Fla-Giant on Feb 20, 2012 11:38 AM PST up reply actions  

I’ll be attending several UCLA games this year, unfortunately they don’t have much in terms of upper round talent for 2012. Sophomore Adam Plutko could go high in 2013 though.

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My boy Shawn Payne takes his walks and his VROOM to Augusta this season.

by free f.p. #14 on Feb 21, 2012 1:53 PM PST up reply actions  

Thanks for the report. I saw from the box scores that ABW was still playing 1B and not LF. ABW seems to me to be a guy that fits in very well to Manuel’s college corner OF category.

BTW, Victor Roache this weekend Victor Roache went:
4 for 10 with 2 HRs, 2 singles, 3 BBs, 1K, and 1 HBP

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

by Fla-Giant on Feb 20, 2012 11:50 AM PST up reply actions  

Kyle Zimmer

Oh, and my new favorite college pitcher for the Giants to grabe at #20 is Kyle Zimmer of the Uni of San Francisco. This guy has only been pitching full-time since the beginning of 2011 and has huge arm strength. He made huge strides in his mechanics last season and has been throwing a FB that touches 98 mph. He’s very raw, but has huge upside. All you fans in the Bay Area should take some time this college season to get over to USF on a Friday and watch him pitch.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

by Fla-Giant on Feb 20, 2012 11:54 AM PST up reply actions  

Draft-eligible pitchers who have only recently converted to pitching are right in the Giants’ wheelhouse. I’m sure Zimmer is near the top of Tidrow’s wish list right now.

Now is the winter of our discontent
Made glorious summer by this son of Cabrera.

by Lyle on Feb 20, 2012 12:39 PM PST up reply actions  

Big fan of Zimmer.

Follow me on Twitter
My boy Shawn Payne takes his walks and his VROOM to Augusta this season.

by free f.p. #14 on Feb 21, 2012 1:53 PM PST up reply actions  

After these reports of 98 I imagine Klima will be tooting his horn a bit more than usual. I think he isn’t accepting comments and I know a couple people who have put some things up on his site, myself included. I like Zimmer a lot as well.

I can see Chris Beck dropping as the HS guys get hype and bump him down the ladder. Should be a couple interesting college RH arms if the Giants want to go that route.

by shankbone on Feb 21, 2012 5:48 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, Klima just put up a really complimentary new post on Zimmer including vid clips. Those clips and the reports of him touching 98 mph this past weekend are what has gotten me really interested in Zimmer now.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

by Fla-Giant on Feb 21, 2012 9:50 PM PST up reply actions  

Haven’t read it yet but Klima has a post on Duane Underwood now. That guy is my favorite of the Georgia prep RH pitchers. Just wanted to get that down before I read the Klima piece. Hope he has some video on him. Now that you’ve pointed out the pat on the back part of Klima I am noticing it a lot more.

If Zimmer really is hitting the high 90s that will give him some big time helium. DrB thinks he’s an injury risk. I like that quick release.

by shankbone on Feb 22, 2012 10:21 AM PST up reply actions  

He was a lot more of an injury risk a year ago. As the video clips that Klima presents on his website show, he’s cleaned up his mechs quite a bit inth elast year. Put him with Tidrow and Rags and he could likely get even better. Sadly for us, he seems to be one of those guys that is going to catch everybody’s attention this year and be long gone before teh #20 pick.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

by Fla-Giant on Feb 22, 2012 2:03 PM PST up reply actions  

I’m going to start a rigorous training regimen that allows me to be fully emotionally ready on draft day to say “I have confidence in whoever the team picks because they’re drafts this decade have been exceptional”. I was almost there last year but the unexpectedness of the Panik pick caused me to fall from confidence. This year, I’ll be giving full-throated support!

That said, born a HS toolsy lover, stay a HS toolsy lover. Guys who I think could fall to us that I’d love to welcome to SF include Carlos Correa, Dave Dahl, and Byron Buxton (cue the Wendell comps in 3..2..1…)

by Roger on Feb 22, 2012 6:52 AM PST up reply actions  

And this guy Lewis Brinson as well! Or is that too close a name to Freddy Lew?

I’m going to do HS OF next. Love the 5-tool talent to death. Even if we ain’t gettin’ it.

by shankbone on Feb 22, 2012 7:29 AM PST up reply actions  

“their”. Jesus. Blogs have destroyed my grammatical credibility.

by Roger on Feb 22, 2012 7:54 AM PST up reply actions  

Nice call, Fla! Except maybe the part about him being available at 20. Did you see this?

by Roger on Feb 22, 2012 6:27 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, I hadn’t seen Fitt’s tweep, but I had already come to the conclusion that Zimmer is likley not going to be around at #20. Quoting from my own comment above:

Sadly for us, he seems to be one of those guys that is going to catch everybody’s attention this year and be long gone before teh #20 pick.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

by Fla-Giant on Feb 23, 2012 8:04 AM PST up reply actions  

I saw ABW play yesterday

FSU was hosting Jacksonville in a mid-week game, and there was a lot of ugly plays (I’ll chalk it up to early season jitters). FSU won 16-9, after trailing by a 6-2 score starting the 3rd inning.

Walker had a medicre game, going 1 for 3 at the plate – with a single and 1 K. FSU was pitching around him in the beginning, so he showed good patience by working a BB in each of his first 2 ABs, but he proceeded to get thrown out trying to steal 2B and then got picked off 1B by the pitcher. He’s got the big power, but I’m still not buying him as a good risk in the first round. If he’s still on the board in the 2nd round then he might be a good gamble for the Giants.

Gulbransen, the JAX CF impressed me, too. He was one of the 2 best players in the game. I don’t see him being a good pick for the Giants, though

James Ramsey played CF and had a nice game, but didn’t show me anything new from what I saw last year.

The one guy that stuck out for me on the FSU squad was Jace Boyd, the LHH junior 1B. He went 4-5 (1 double & 3 singles) with 1 BB and 5 RBI. Last year he was really a dead pull hitter, but in yesterday’s game he was staying on the ball and using the entire field. He’s still not anything more than an average defender at 1B, though.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

by Fla-Giant on Feb 22, 2012 2:20 PM PST up reply actions  

Maybe the hype is getting to ABW a bit too. He was perfect in SBs last year, the pickoff/cs plays seem like early frustration with being pitched around maybe? I agree on the 2nd round being a better fit.

With Gulbransen, good pick at all for the Giants or not in the first 3-4 rounds? Its hard to tell how much hype he will get during the year. I’ve even seen some Chase Utley comparisons, which is pretty high praise. His stat line is certainly impressive. I thought he had a very advanced feel for the game. Utley might be crazy though.

I want to see some Florida and Fl State games. Have to wait for later in the season most likely for hoops to die down. MLB network put on the games from Houston last weekend, got to listen to Harold Reynolds schmooze various local dignitaries. I like Reynolds more than most, so I was amused by it. Caught parts of the UC Irvine/Southern game, nobody really stood out.

by shankbone on Feb 22, 2012 3:04 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, ABW was perfect in SBs last season, but it was only 12 for 12 – not exactly anything to write home about.

Florida will be playing at least 3 games on the Thursday night ESPNU national game of the week this season.

As for Gulgransen, I’ve only ever seen him in CF, so not sure where the Utley comps come from. If the Giants think he can make the switch to 2B then he might be worth a pick starting in the 4th round, but as a CF he doesn’t seem to add much to the Giants depth chart. If he’s still on the board after the 10th round he might be worth a shot.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

by Fla-Giant on Feb 22, 2012 4:50 PM PST up reply actions  

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