Giants people are saying only that talks are "ongoing'' with Cain, but there is said to be a fair amount of optimism they can keep Cain on a longterm deal for under $20 million a year. Cain already took one long team-friendly deal, but Lincecum, who has so far gone year to year, seems more likely to wind up with a two-year deal now rather than sign a contract into his free-agent years.
SF offers Tim $100M-plus but more able on Cain - CBSSports.com.
Say, this is interesting. Far more interesting than that other game where they kick the ball. They kick it! It's in the rules and everything! Now let's forget about that other game for a while.
4 months ago
Grant Brisbee
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Everything ends in tears. Otherwise it wouldn’t end.
Anyway, I have moved on to talking about tennis now! Silly handegg.
by WhatsAMataHari on Jan 22, 2012 11:59 PM PST up reply actions
Everything ends in tears
This is a very sad and disturbing statement.
"They'll put a man on the moon before I hit a home run." ~ Gaylord Perry
by calgiants86 on Jan 23, 2012 12:01 AM PST up reply actions
SENT A FRIEND REQUEST, ANSWER IT
Proud adoptive father of the fastest guy in the Giants system, Jarrett Parker
One of the best moments in Giants history, 11/1/2010
Sometimes it ends in fire. With fire, the tear ducts remain dry.
Once more, coming to you by proxy.
by howtheyscored on Jan 23, 2012 12:07 AM PST up reply actions
Just like yesterday!
"I don’t know, just chuck it as hard as you can".-Buster Posey, on how to gun down stolen base attempts
by LincecumFTK on Jan 23, 2012 12:11 PM PST up reply actions
Damn
Proud adoptive father of the fastest guy in the Giants system, Jarrett Parker
One of the best moments in Giants history, 11/1/2010
Can we trust Jon Heyman?
/trollin’
Aubrey Huff: "My body is ripped."
by Grant_ME_MERCY on Jan 22, 2012 11:59 PM PST reply actions
As long as we keep Cain
I can live with Lincecum going to greener (ahem) pastures.
"I see these guys walking around with rings on, and I want one. That's what it's all about." -Ryan Vogelsong
I’m mostly in this line.
Aubrey Huff: "My body is ripped."
by Grant_ME_MERCY on Jan 23, 2012 12:01 AM PST up reply actions
but... it's timmy!!!
Proud adoptive father of the fastest guy in the Giants system, Jarrett Parker
One of the best moments in Giants history, 11/1/2010
//hums
Lincecum, Fuck Yeah!
Striking you out to save the motherfucking Bay, yeah!
by WhatsAMataHari on Jan 23, 2012 12:03 AM PST up reply actions
I'm apparently in the minority 'round these parts
In liking Tim more than Matt.
The most delightful ecumenical contradiction in nomenclature.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
I think they’re likely to perform similarly, but Matt will be cheaper.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
Over the next 3 years, I’d take Tim. Over the next 5, probably still Tim. Over the next 7… Matt, I guess. He’s got age.
The most delightful ecumenical contradiction in nomenclature.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
Huh
For whatever reason, I had it in my head that he was closer to a full year younger.
OK, yeah, I’d just rather have Tim.
The most delightful ecumenical contradiction in nomenclature.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
if the difference is $25+ million per year versus < $20 million per year though?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
No
It all depends on the money. But the perception here seems to be that strictly performance-wise, Matt is the better bet. I disagree with that.
The most delightful ecumenical contradiction in nomenclature.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
I guess Matt appears to be trending up
while Tim is trending down
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
their '12 ZIPSes are pretty close to one another
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
I'm with you
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
Cain for under 20 mil a year would be good
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
by jponry on Jan 23, 2012 12:10 AM PST reply actions 2 recs
This calm understated comment is correct and deserves a rec.
I'm a Giants Fan, but I'll always be rooting for Matt Downs
Adopted Son:Dan Burkhart , Future Backup To Buster Posey.
Unloved Cain.
Awww. Someone needs a hug.
I volunteer!
by WhatsAMataHari on Jan 23, 2012 12:15 AM PST up reply actions
Mark Sweeney, IIRC
Cash rules everything around me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar dollar bill y'all
this is shortly after the bonds amphetamines thingy
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
I'll only support a Cain extension if it includes language prohibiting future Cain/Able word play..
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
I could get behind this.
(Awwwwwwww yeeeeah.)
"I see these guys walking around with rings on, and I want one. That's what it's all about." -Ryan Vogelsong
Know what? fuck it. I’m proud of our Niners. We could have, yknow, not had any playoff games to cheer for. It could have been like its been for nearly a decade. Nah. Better to love and lose than never to love, right? With the glory comes the heartbreak, I’ll take it any day.
Looking forward to the future for our Niners and Giants.
<3 my ladies Kanani and Britney
"History was going through my mind. It was us against history, us against no, us against can't."
You mean no offense for either team?
Still the father of two-time Cy Young Award winner Tim Lincecum.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
Better to feel this bad than to never get a chance to feel this bad.
11 01 10
Veni Vidi Vixi
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Jan 23, 2012 7:25 AM PST up reply actions
I said it last night
just didn’t get the bounces. Niners have gotten some good luck through the season including the game against the Saints last week.
I hope Williams is doing okay. Tough day for the kid.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
I forgot how freaking annoying Maria Sharapova’s little shrieks are.
by WhatsAMataHari on Jan 23, 2012 12:50 AM PST reply actions
Meh, I have bad memories of an ex named Sabine so I’m pulling for Sharapova. Are you staying up for the Hewitt – Djokovic match?
"They'll put a man on the moon before I hit a home run." ~ Gaylord Perry
It would be so awesome if Hewitt can pull off a win. I’ll catch some that match at the gym.
"They'll put a man on the moon before I hit a home run." ~ Gaylord Perry
It would be amazing, but I am not holding out too much hope.
by WhatsAMataHari on Jan 23, 2012 1:55 AM PST up reply actions
Novak-Hewitt is starting now. And I’m still awake!
Who knows if I will stay awake though
by WhatsAMataHari on Jan 23, 2012 3:06 AM PST up reply actions
Baseball
Fuck this other shit
My mind ain't nuthin' but a total blank, I think I'll just stay here and draaank - Merle Haggard
by NuschlerFace on Jan 23, 2012 2:02 AM PST reply actions 6 recs
Williams Ensure 49ers’ Super Bowl Record Stays Unblemished
Damn, well north of 5000 comments yesterday on front-page posts alone.
11 01 10
Veni Vidi Vixi
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Jan 23, 2012 5:27 AM PST reply actions
Tim woulda been a moron to take that deal
And the deal for Cain under 20 million? I’d guess
13:$10M, 14:$14.5M, 15:$18.5M, 16:$18.5M, 17:$18.5M, 18:$19M, 19:$20M, 20:$18M club option ($7M buyout)
Say, that looks familiar…
The most delightful ecumenical contradiction in nomenclature.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
I'm more upset about this Scutaro deal than I am about anything else that's happened this offseason.
The most delightful ecumenical contradiction in nomenclature.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
If you're telling me that the Red Sox would rather have Mortenson than Jonathan Sanchez
I’m calling you silly.
The most delightful ecumenical contradiction in nomenclature.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
They wouldn’t. However, they would rather have had several million dollars freed up in payroll to throw at Roy Oswalt than have Jonathan Sanchez.
I'm as tall as Mel. Why can't I hit 500 home runs?
I never forget the money
But if the Giants are going to keep telling us that winning is their #1 priority, they should probably stop letting relatively trivial amounts of money stop them from improving their team.
The most delightful ecumenical contradiction in nomenclature.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
I don’t think she means money, I think she means the Red Sox’ perspective.
"Baseball is a red-blooded sport for red-blooded men. It's no pink tea, and mollycoddles had better stay out." -Ty Cobb
Mayor of Smug.
What?
If the money was the same, why wouldn’t the Red Sox want Sanchez over Mortenson?
The most delightful ecumenical contradiction in nomenclature.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
Scutaro was dumped for his salary, which is roughly the same as Sanchez’.
2012 is going to be awesome!
OK
First, I said that the Red Sox would have rather had Sanchez than Mortenson.
Then, Ott said, sure, but the Red Sox wanted salary relief.
Then, I said that the Giants should have made the money equal, if that was the problem.
Then, rotorueter said that he didn’t think that you (Tortured) was talking about money, he (rotorueter) thought that you (Tortured) was talking about the Red Sox perspective.
Then, I asked why, from the Red Sox perspective, they would rather have Sanchez than Mortenson.
Then you brought up salary again, which we covered three steps ago.
The most delightful ecumenical contradiction in nomenclature.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
No, I think you forgot about the TIMING, and that Sanchez was already gone before the Sox shopped Scutaro.
2012 is going to be awesome!
You have to think the Yankees acquisitions of Kuroda and Pineda
affected the Red Sox plans.
11 01 10
Veni Vidi Vixi
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Jan 23, 2012 8:29 AM PST up reply actions
Look, the bottom line is that even the timing doesn't matter.
Because the Giants didn’t have to trade Sanchez for Scutaro.
I know this, of course, because Sanchez is much better than the guy the Red Sox got for Scutaro.
I know this, of course, because Clay Mortenson is awful. Like, really, really, really bad.
Look, maybe the Giants never could have traded Sanchez for Scutaro. If that’s what you’re arguing, then fine.
But the Giants absolutely could have traded SOMEONE for Scutaro, because the guy who did get traded for Scutaro is AWFUL.
The most delightful ecumenical contradiction in nomenclature.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
by GiantPain on Jan 23, 2012 8:30 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Well, let's see
Sanchez is going to make 5.6 million next year. Mortensen is going to make 600k, I’d guess.
So the Giants probably would have had to eat 5 million + give up Sanchez to get Scutaro.
My theory is they did not do this because they are cheap.
Fuck ’em.
The most delightful ecumenical contradiction in nomenclature.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
Yes. We knew the Giants were cheaping it up this year. That’s different than the generic “we coulda had that guy, our prospects are at least as good as what they got.”
But yeah, that’s some real penny pinching if 5 million or so is just too darn expensive for a shortstop on this team. Or maybe Cherington texted Sabean about it, but Sabean hasn’t delegated anyone to respond to texts, so it went unanswered. Who knows?
I'm as tall as Mel. Why can't I hit 500 home runs?
I don’t think Sanchez needs to be part of the equation, especially since the Sox were planning to keep Scutaro as soon as last week.
But what we learned over the weekend the price for a .340 OBP shortstop is his $6 million salary and a AAAA pitchers. Not beating that offer just says “We don’t care about winning this year.”
by Evan on Jan 23, 2012 7:56 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Yes. Yes. Yes.
Well put.
The most delightful ecumenical contradiction in nomenclature.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
So are you saying the Giants should have eaten 5 million as well as pick up Scutaro’s 6 million dollar contract? Cheap is cheap but that doesn’t make any sense.
by Dingoes Ate My Baby on Jan 23, 2012 8:21 AM PST up reply actions
Are you asking me if the Giants should have paid ~10 million dollars to get a 2+ WAR shortstop?
Uh, yes. Of course they should have.
Or they could have DFA’d Sanchez and given up a AAAA arm to get Scutaro, which is all that the Rockies gave. Then the money would have been equal.
Mortensen is awful. There is no reason at all that the Giants shouldn’t have gotten Scutaro instead of the Rockies.
The most delightful ecumenical contradiction in nomenclature.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
So you're saying that
That the Red Sox were not willing to trade Sanchez for Scutaro when we traded Sanchez, but, a month later, they were willing to trade Scutaro for a pitcher much worse than Sanchez.
The most delightful ecumenical contradiction in nomenclature.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
They don't really have a SS now.
I think they thought long & hard about that move, and the timing was off because stupid Sabean can’t wait to make deals.
2012 is going to be awesome!
Fine
Let’s say I concede the point that there was no way to trade Sanchez for Scutaro.
Now convince me why the Giants couldn’t have beaten the Rockies’ offer for Scutaro, knowing that the Rockies offer for Scutaro was one (1) terrible pitcher.
The most delightful ecumenical contradiction in nomenclature.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
Because Boston knew the Giants’ need for a shortstop is acute and tried to hold the Giants up over the issue, making unreasonable demands and souring the talks? I’m just spitballing here…
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Jan 23, 2012 8:35 AM PST up reply actions
Sounds about the way things go though.
Adopted Giant: Eddie I Have It Grant.
TSFGWTWS DESPITE Botchy, not BECAUSE of him.
Yeah, I mean, the Rox don’t need a SS at all. In fact, Scutaro is going to play 2nd. (Which I think he did last year.)
2012 is going to be awesome!
So your thoughts on how the negotiations went is something like:
Red Sox: Give us Belt
Giants: What? No! Belt is our future!
Red Sox: We want Belt.
Giants: No.
Rockies: We’ll give you Mortenson
Red Sox: If you don’t give us Belt, we’re going to take Mortenson.
Giants: Wait, what?
Red Sox: We want Belt.
Giants: No.
Red Sox: We’ll take Mortenson.
Rockies: Done!
The most delightful ecumenical contradiction in nomenclature.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
This is pretty ridiculous
Even for you
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
Azmanz Bet: 1st HoF: Clemens > Bonds
by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 23, 2012 8:40 AM PST up reply actions
Entirely possible.
I’m just at an utter loss in reaction to people who think that Scutaro was ungettable.
The most delightful ecumenical contradiction in nomenclature.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
he was gettable, but they probably asked for cain, or madison.
Adopted Giant: Eddie I Have It Grant.
TSFGWTWS DESPITE Botchy, not BECAUSE of him.
I mean come on. The Redsox aren’t dumb, if WE know Sabean doesn’t negotiate well, the sox gotta know that.
Adopted Giant: Eddie I Have It Grant.
TSFGWTWS DESPITE Botchy, not BECAUSE of him.
Sure
The Red Sox can ask for whatever they like.
But, hell, look at who they got for Scutaro. Is there no way the Giants could have said, “hey, look, we’ll give you Runzler, who isn’t great, but who is at least better than Mortenson.”?
The most delightful ecumenical contradiction in nomenclature.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
I wouldn’t think that during that stage of negotiations the Giants knew who the Sox were asking for with regards to other teams. That only weakens the Sox bargaining stance.
Adopted Giant: Eddie I Have It Grant.
TSFGWTWS DESPITE Botchy, not BECAUSE of him.
Why would the Giants be in on
a negotiation between two other teams? I mean, if everyone knew how that deal was going, they’d offer their crappy pitchers, too. The Sox wouldve had their pick of crappy ptichers.
2012 is going to be awesome!
The Giants wouldn't have had to be in on the negotiations
All they had to do was put in an offer, which it’s fairly obvious they did not, because there’s no real offer the Giants could have put together than isn’t better than Clay Mortenson, who, again, is terrible.
The most delightful ecumenical contradiction in nomenclature.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
The way you phrased your last post
inplied that the Giants did know about Mortensen.
I just can’t see getting exercised about Scutaro when if the Giants weren’t cheap, they would have signed Reyes.
2012 is going to be awesome!
There's degrees of cheapness
The cheapness exhibited in the case of not signing Reyes is comprehensible, if not advisable.
The cheapness exhibited in letting the Rockies get what could have been a big upgrade at shortstop for this team for nothing is lamentable.
Adjectives!
The most delightful ecumenical contradiction in nomenclature.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
Maybe they think
that a guy upstairs of 35 who spent the last season playing 2nd sounds too much like Tejada. I think they’ve just put in a hard & fast rule about old SS.
And btw, I’m not defending them, it just seems like how they think right now. It’s as if they have tunnel vision and can only see Matt & Tim right now.
2012 is going to be awesome!
Scutaro spent last season at shortstop. He played only 18 innings of 2B in 2011.
The most delightful ecumenical contradiction in nomenclature.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
Adjectives!
Cainable?
11 01 10
Veni Vidi Vixi
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Jan 23, 2012 9:07 AM PST up reply actions
As an aside
I am so ready for the season to start just to avoid having these discussions about the FO.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
Well, right now.
The most delightful ecumenical contradiction in nomenclature.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
Ok, that I can believe.
I guess it’s a good thing you forget your own rage so quickly.
2012 is going to be awesome!
Rage is a strong word
Nothing this offseason has made me actually angry. Just Giants-angry.
The most delightful ecumenical contradiction in nomenclature.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
I think the way to put it is...
Ugh… really guys? REALLY?
Watching the Giants play baseball is like buying tickets 162 times a year to have Mike Tyson pretend your testicles are a speed bag.
by danieljgrant on Jan 23, 2012 7:20 AM PST up reply actions
SANCHEZ FOR CABRERA!!! Its almost like they didn’t even shop Sanchez around.
Kickham where it hurts
by say hey nation on Jan 23, 2012 7:27 AM PST up reply actions
I mean, holy cow
The Rockies gave up Clay Mortenson for Marco Scutaro.
Clay Mortenson was worth -.1 WAR last year in the majors. He has a career major league ERA of 5.12.
And in 64 AAA innings in 2011, Mortenson had a 9.42 ERA.
That is not a typo.
Please, please, do not try to pretend that the Giants couldn’t or shouldn’t have beat that offer.
The most delightful ecumenical contradiction in nomenclature.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
The Boston Red Sox likes Scutaro so much
They traded him for a -.1 WAR player.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
Kudos, You are a sick, sick man, but you are very good at it -- wcw
Murray Hewitt?
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Jan 23, 2012 8:29 AM PST up reply actions
LOL SAN FRANCISCO SPORTING FRANCHISES
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
Azmanz Bet: 1st HoF: Clemens > Bonds
by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 23, 2012 7:39 AM PST reply actions
Would you count the Warriors as a San Francisco sporting franchise?
I don't have a very high opinion of southern California, in sports or in general
by short_shifter on Jan 23, 2012 7:41 AM PST up reply actions
Does anyone else ever have this problem?
McC won’t open from the bookmark, but it will if I go to Fear the Fin and then over from there. This happens periodically.
2012 is going to be awesome!
I never have that problem. The two annoying things I get are following a link over here from twitter and not being able to post cuz I’m not logged in. And the first time I load the page not having “new comments” show up. [A post will say “42 comments” – not “42 comments 10 new”]
Adopted Giant: Eddie I Have It Grant.
TSFGWTWS DESPITE Botchy, not BECAUSE of him.
The comments on the linked article are pretty bad.
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
Azmanz Bet: 1st HoF: Clemens > Bonds
by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 23, 2012 7:49 AM PST reply actions
The only reason Tim would turn down $100M is if he is really money hungry, or if he wants to go to a big market team i.e. NY/BOS. He already has a ring, so what’s the difference between $100M and say $120M?
I realize with some teams payroll is an issue, but keeping 2 aces on your team should be worth the money. If you won’t pay, someone else GLADLY will.
I’d say about 20 M is the difference between 120 and 100M
Kickham where it hurts
by say hey nation on Jan 23, 2012 7:51 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah but the honor and privilege of having the opportunity to play in New York or Boston is worth far more than $20 million.
"Can Manchester United score? They always score... Peter Schmeichel is forward... Beckham, in towards Schmeichel- it's come for Dwight Yorke. Cleared... Giggs with a shot- SHERINGHAM!"
by Useful_Idiot on Jan 23, 2012 7:57 AM PST up reply actions
I just want to throw this out there
I can’t stand when, after your team loses, opposing fans feel the need to visit your team’s forum and say something like “Hi there, New York D-Bags fan here, just wanted to say you have a great team and we feel awful for you. Good luck next season!!” That annoys me.
Okay, back to the Timmy discussion.
"Can Manchester United score? They always score... Peter Schmeichel is forward... Beckham, in towards Schmeichel- it's come for Dwight Yorke. Cleared... Giggs with a shot- SHERINGHAM!"
Hey listen, I know your team outplayed us tonight BUT THINK WHAT THAT MEANS FOR NEXT YEAR!
Kickham where it hurts
by say hey nation on Jan 23, 2012 7:55 AM PST up reply actions
HEY NINERS FANS, IMMA LETCHU FINISH
"I see these guys walking around with rings on, and I want one. That's what it's all about." -Ryan Vogelsong
I can’t stand talking about hand egg right now, so I’m fully immersing myself into baseball…watching the Ken Burns series, gonna throw in the 2010 WS DVDs, and I’m banning myself from watching/reading ESPN/SI for a good couple weeks.
Thank you guys for not rehashing last night’s crap here. On to better things. Like keeping Timmy and Cain.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
Oh snap!
…though it’s tempting to root for Red Tails based on its intentions alone, I fear it would be similar to clapping extra loud for the handicapped child at the little league game, a celebration of effort over execution.
Jeff Myers
Metro Times (Detroit, MI)
Rotten Tomatoes
11 01 10
Veni Vidi Vixi
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Jan 23, 2012 8:03 AM PST reply actions
Not to get all "that guy who posts huge block posts" all the time, but
"In this information age, the average fan has so much information at his/her disposal, they have all the players, stats, projections right there,’’ said Sabean. "But this game is so much more than those stats and analysis and metrics. It’s ultimately about human beings.
"In 2010, we had a few things happen. We brought Buster Posey up, and at first we had him at first base just to provide some offense for us. As we saw him catch, it enabled us to trade Bengie Molina.
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
Azmanz Bet: 1st HoF: Clemens > Bonds
by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 23, 2012 8:05 AM PST reply actions
No, Sabean, it's not ultimately about human beings.
At it’s fundamental core, baseball is about statistics. It is about one statistic, in particular – which team scores more runs than the other team. That is the only thing that matters. It’s ultimately about numbers.
The most delightful ecumenical contradiction in nomenclature.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
It's about both
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
by CalBear949 on Jan 23, 2012 8:24 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
GP is in Washington DC
That’s why there are no people involved.
"It's too LATE to stop now!" - John Lee Hooker
IT'S SCIENCE
"One thing I’ve learned about a roster,’’ Sabean said. "Every year, you’re going to have one pitcher do better than you expected and one pitcher do worse. One reliever to do better and one to do worse. And one hitter do better and one do worse. It never fails.’’
Sundrendy!
Well, it’s kind of true, no?
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Jan 23, 2012 8:15 AM PST up reply actions
So, on average, a team does what they are projected to do over the course of a season. So, hoping like hell that they do better than they project is a flawed strategy? I’m confused.
by GuyWhiteyCorngood on Jan 23, 2012 9:32 AM PST up reply actions
86 wins is what happened last year
with historically bad luck.
"I see these guys walking around with rings on, and I want one. That's what it's all about." -Ryan Vogelsong
Zito getting injured for the first time and being replaced by Ryan Vogelsong. Historically bad luck. Panda returning to form after a mediocre season. Historically bad luck. Continued health from Tim, Matt, and Mad. Historically….
A lot of good things happened last year too.
by GuyWhiteyCorngood on Jan 23, 2012 11:22 AM PST up reply actions
Go look at the RISP numbers.
Regardless of everything else, that’s historically bad.
"I see these guys walking around with rings on, and I want one. That's what it's all about." -Ryan Vogelsong
On the other hand, go look at the pitching numbers. The Giants ranked among the best/luckiest in BABIP and in LOB%, and were best by a mile in HR/FB. Some of that is skill and some of that is luck, but collectively the effect is stronger than that of the RISP calamity.
Vogelsong produced roughly a half win’s worth of surplus value over what Zito had produced in the previous two seasons, and 2010 is probably the aberrant season for Pablo, rather than the other 3.
"I see these guys walking around with rings on, and I want one. That's what it's all about." -Ryan Vogelsong
And Freddy Sanchez and Nate Schierholtz getting injured should probably be expected too. And having a catcher get injured isn’t exactly out of the ordinary. And having a first basemen perform like he did 2 years prior isn’t unexpected.
I’m not saying that on a spectrum of good luck to bad luck that the 2011 Giants didn’t fall on the bad luck side of the mid point, but I just don’t see it as this epitome of Murphy’s Law.
by GuyWhiteyCorngood on Jan 23, 2012 11:45 AM PST up reply actions
I never said Murphy's Law.
Losing your starting catcher for four months probably happens less than you are suggesting.
And again, there is no rational explanation for the RISP numbers. They were historically bad, and as such probably unsustainably bad.
"I see these guys walking around with rings on, and I want one. That's what it's all about." -Ryan Vogelsong
Didn’t they also win an abnormal number of 1 run games? And didn’t our Pythagorean record have us at 80 wins?
So let’s say our BARISP numbers come up a bit, which would add to our Pythagorean number, but then our actual record reflects our pythagorean number a little better. And maybe we lose a few more 1 run games. Couldn’t we very easily still be at 86 wins?
by GuyWhiteyCorngood on Jan 23, 2012 11:54 AM PST up reply actions
A pythag that was a product of the putrid numbers with RISP.
"I see these guys walking around with rings on, and I want one. That's what it's all about." -Ryan Vogelsong
I'll show you a python
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
Kudos, You are a sick, sick man, but you are very good at it -- wcw
I’m not really interested in bartering over what was lucky or wasn’t lucky.
I would not term the team that the Giants fielded last year a true-talent 80-win team, even after the injuries.
"I see these guys walking around with rings on, and I want one. That's what it's all about." -Ryan Vogelsong
Sure
Similarly, I wouldn’t term the team the Giants are planning on fielding next year a true-talent 90 win team either.
The most delightful ecumenical contradiction in nomenclature.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
Unlike the Giants numbers with RISP
Your pessimism is sustainable.
"I see these guys walking around with rings on, and I want one. That's what it's all about." -Ryan Vogelsong
Sure, the RISP numbers are likely to regress
But I don’t have a lot of faith in our 1-run-game record from last year either, and the bullpen is something I expect to be substantially worse than last year.
The most delightful ecumenical contradiction in nomenclature.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
Did you stop reading after the second sentence? Because I mentioned that exact point.
So let’s say our BARISP numbers come up a bit, which would add to our Pythagorean number
But then if this happens
but then our actual record reflects our pythagorean number a little better.
We’re still at 86 wins, which brings us back to
86 wins is what happened last year
with historically bad luck.
by GuyWhiteyCorngood on Jan 23, 2012 12:26 PM PST up reply actions
Refer to
I’m not really interested in bartering over what was lucky or wasn’t lucky.
"I see these guys walking around with rings on, and I want one. That's what it's all about." -Ryan Vogelsong
No more than I am. I just don’t get how you can feel that it would be next to impossible for us not to win more than 86 games this year.
by GuyWhiteyCorngood on Jan 23, 2012 12:39 PM PST up reply actions
It would make sense for you to feel confused
Given that I didn’t say that.
There’s always going to be some “you win some, you lose some,” but I think the team is good enough to realistically contend for the first wild card. If the Diamondbacks win 95 games again the Wild Card is probably the best they can hope for, but I am more bullish on the Giants chances to win 90 games than a lot of people on here.
Whether it will pan out that way, I don’t know. But I do expect certain areas to regress at least marginally in their favor.
"I see these guys walking around with rings on, and I want one. That's what it's all about." -Ryan Vogelsong
No, you just implied it by saying that the Giants won 86 with HISTORICALLY bad luck. How else can I take that?
I guess if you feel the Giants have significantly downgraded this year, you could think they could fall in the 85-86 win range without HISTORICALLY bad luck, but then that still poses the question of why you make the comment in the first place.
I mean, someone says they’re anticipating the team winning 86 games, why else would someone point out that the team won 86 games last year while suffering under HISTORICALLY bad luck other than that person feels it would be nigh on impossible for them to repeat that number?
by GuyWhiteyCorngood on Jan 23, 2012 12:53 PM PST up reply actions
To illustrate that
the “Hope like hell” meme is somewhat overstated.
Again, you’re clearly reading way too far into my comments, so I don’t really know how I can reassure you there. I personally do feel that the Giants are an 86-92 win team as constructed, but I’m not going to tell anybody that all other outcomes are outside the realm of possibility.
"I see these guys walking around with rings on, and I want one. That's what it's all about." -Ryan Vogelsong
Holy hell, he's even dumber than I thought
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, future CF for the World Champion San Francisco Giants.
"And besides, if I wanted to participate in a mindless patriotic ritual where my voice isn’t really heard, I would vote." - Chris Marcil
He learned to catch by playing first base in Fresno!
11 01 10
Veni Vidi Vixi
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Jan 23, 2012 8:27 AM PST up reply actions
I understand what he is saying. I just wish our General Manager is a little more tactful with the language
What he is saying is that stats and projections often times goes to the lowest common denominator. You strip out all the factors you cannot control, remove as much randomness as you can, and then make up the difference with a model that shows “if all else are equal” what the player’s performance should be.
Sabean comes from a scouting background. What do scouts do? They are paid to observe those factors. They are paid to figure out why Pablo has a higher BABIP than he is “supposed to”. They are paid to understand why Matt Cain suppresses home runs in an illogical way. He has to defend them because that is their job. The stats community treats those reports as circumstantial evidence and discard them because often times they conflict each other, so the only way to get to the common denominator is to remove it altogether and rebuild it base on a model. That’s the only way to get consistency in the projection.
Do I trust Sabean with the veteran leadership and playing the games the right way bullshit? No of course I don’t. But at the same time there ARE things that scouts add that needs to be taken into consideration. And I can respect that.
I just wish he focuses a little less on the truly intangible stuff and focus more on the semi-intangible stuff.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
Kudos, You are a sick, sick man, but you are very good at it -- wcw
by jctGamer on Jan 23, 2012 8:42 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd.
"I see these guys walking around with rings on, and I want one. That's what it's all about." -Ryan Vogelsong
I just wish that Sabean wouldn’t blow so much money on stiffs. Maybe that is changing.
proud son of greatgiantfan; b. Apr 29, 2009, d. Jul 30, 2010.
That isn't going to happen.
Actually, if Tim doesn’t want to give the team any kind of a discount on the first couple of his FA years, I would rather they just sign hijm to a 2 year deal and let him go after that.
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
Azmanz Bet: 1st HoF: Clemens > Bonds
by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 23, 2012 10:58 AM PST up reply actions
I'm beginning to feel this way, too.
He may change his tune if the Giants actually get somewhere in 2012.
2012 is going to be awesome!
man it’s gloomy outside.
Adopted Giant: Eddie I Have It Grant.
TSFGWTWS DESPITE Botchy, not BECAUSE of him.
And kind of gloomy in here too...
wait…what ?
I'm a Giants Fan, but I'll always be rooting for Matt Downs
Adopted Son:Dan Burkhart , Future Backup To Buster Posey.
I think I'm in the bargaining stage of grief
I’m saying things like:
“probably better for my life that I didn’t have to fly back to SF for Super Bowl weekend”
“we would’ve lost to the Patriots so at least our undefeated SB record is intact”
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
Right there with you:
“I might have to work Super Bowl Sunday.”
“I don’t think we could have beat New England.”
after a good night’s sleep and hot cup of coffee I’ve come to a couple of realizations. The 49ers didn’t lose last night because of one guy, they lost because they couldn’t convert on third down. Also, I remembered that I don’t give a shit about football.
totally made a baby during the 2010 World Series. It's a girl.
I'm in the best shape of my life.
Another thing I'm mad about:
Chris Snyder going to the Astros for cheap. Really coulda used him, too.
The most delightful ecumenical contradiction in nomenclature.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
Over/under on days active next year:
50
by Grant Brisbee on Jan 23, 2012 8:23 AM PST up reply actions
If the Giants are planning on 100 games from Posey
That would line up quite nicely.
The most delightful ecumenical contradiction in nomenclature.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
Wait...
…you think they can control when a guy is/isn’t on the DL and coordinate that to Posey’s days off?
Bold Prediction: Pablo Sandoval finishes 1st or 2nd in 2012 NL MVP voting. I'm Twittering now (well maybe not literally now): @GoofusMcP
They’re going to hit him in the knee with a hammer when they feel he needs a 60 day break.
Fuck Armageddon, this is hell.
i used to be a catcher like you...
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
Kudos, You are a sick, sick man, but you are very good at it -- wcw
I'm already anticipating my pure rage
When Scutaro gets a big hit against us next year
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
LOL LOL LOL
Mike Petriello @MikeSciosciasTI 10m
Um, that’s why. RT @darrenrovell: Why do companies release Super Bowl commercials before game? Volkswagen’s already been viewed 7M+ times
Retweeted by Sam Miller
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
Fucking owned
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
Kudos, You are a sick, sick man, but you are very good at it -- wcw
Upon further review and after careful consideration.
I think I would have preferred that the Niners were one of the teams playing in the Super Bowl.
Did you review show the ball hitting the Niners in the knee?
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
That awkward moment when you’re rooting for a referee to make the wrong decision.
by Grant Brisbee on Jan 23, 2012 8:41 AM PST up reply actions
he used to be an adventurer like you
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
Kudos, You are a sick, sick man, but you are very good at it -- wcw
troll
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Jan 23, 2012 8:38 AM PST up reply actions
Points off of blown punt receptions
The new handegg market inefficiency.
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
Azmanz Bet: 1st HoF: Clemens > Bonds
by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 23, 2012 8:41 AM PST up reply actions
UGH.. From Barnwell's column
To some extent, it’s “fairer” to scapegoat Kyle Williams for the 49ers’ loss to the Giants in overtime on Sunday. New York’s chances of winning leaped from just 22 percent to 46 percent after Williams’ muffed punt handed them the ball, and hopped from 52 percent to 85 percent when Williams fumbled the ball away a second time in overtime
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
C’mon guys…let’s just let it go and stop re-hashing it.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Jan 23, 2012 8:46 AM PST up reply actions
I wonder if Braves fans have stopped rehashing the Brooks Conrad thing yet.
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Jan 23, 2012 9:22 AM PST up reply actions
Seeing as how we're drawing connections between Kyle Williams an Jose Cruz Jr,
I’m guessing we’ll be hashing for a while yet.
11 01 10
Veni Vidi Vixi
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Jan 23, 2012 9:26 AM PST up reply actions
Brian Sabean does not accept those numbers.
It’s a human game.
11 01 10
Veni Vidi Vixi
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Jan 23, 2012 8:50 AM PST up reply actions
Pretty much this
After the two late drives against the Saints served as his redemption song and national coming-out party, Alex Smith really didn’t have a very effective performance in the NFL title game. He hooked up with Davis when the tight end got open downfield for two long scores, but he was frequently inaccurate and bounced far too many passes into the turf. Smith started the game 3-for-10, with the Davis pass sandwiched between two checkdowns to Frank Gore, and he finished an incredible 1-for-9 for three yards on throws to his wide receivers. Michael Crabtree was effectively bottled up by Corey Webster, and outside of a missed bomb to a somewhat-open Williams, the wide receivers didn’t do Smith any favors.
In reality, the narrative surrounding Smith and his passing having turned the corner with the Saints win was inflated by the drama behind it (and Smith’s incredible sweep for a touchdown). The Niners went up 17-0 early in that game with a nice touchdown pass to Davis and a couple of Saints turnovers. The offense basically stalled from that point on until late in the fourth quarter, when Smith led two long drives against the league’s sixth-worst pass defense (per DVOA) to win the game. It was wildly entertaining and Smith made some great throws, but it wasn’t even up to the standards of what Tim Tebow did against a far better defense in the wild-card round, let alone some marker that Smith had taken a big leap forward. Against a good pass defense on Sunday, Smith didn’t get the job done. His defense gave him three realistic drives late in the game with a shot at winning the NFC, and if we ignore the fourth drive that started with 19 seconds left and served to pad his stats, Smith went 1-for-6 for 11 yards with a sack and a dangerously forced checkdown.
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
I was quite content to read football talk on MCC during the season
But is it too much to ask that now that the season is over, that be relegated to NN?
That could be out of line. Apologies if it is.
The most delightful ecumenical contradiction in nomenclature.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
There’re another two weeks in the handegg season.
I have Croix de Candlesticks older than you.
Golden Gate Beer Bars | Tweetybox
by troymccluresf on Jan 23, 2012 8:57 AM PST up reply actions
It's the day after the NFC Championship
And considering how much non-baseball talk occurs here it’s a bit out of line.
And most importantly, Niners Nation blows
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
I really want to like NN but I just can’t.
Kickham where it hurts
by say hey nation on Jan 23, 2012 8:58 AM PST up reply actions
I agree
If nothing else, make a fanpost about it and the masochists can group over there.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Jan 23, 2012 9:00 AM PST up reply actions
It's, what, 12 hours since the game?
11 01 10
Veni Vidi Vixi
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Jan 23, 2012 9:08 AM PST up reply actions
Eh... I know what you mean
It is not even ST yet. I would venture that “lunch” has more time on MCC than Niners do.
Blerg
by Myemail21479 on Jan 23, 2012 9:24 AM PST up reply actions
Undecided
Probably something like trail mix and water.
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
Azmanz Bet: 1st HoF: Clemens > Bonds
by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 23, 2012 9:25 AM PST up reply actions
I am going to eat pie flavored cake and graham crackers
Blerg
by Myemail21479 on Jan 23, 2012 9:30 AM PST up reply actions
Not his best game.
Other than two perfect touchdown throws, of course. But I still think people underrate the value of him not turning the ball over. If Goldson isn’t so quick to the ball, Eli throws two devastating picks. Smith didn’t win the game for the Niners, but Eli sure didn’t win it for the Giants, and he came a lot closer to losing it for them.
by Grant Brisbee on Jan 23, 2012 8:55 AM PST up reply actions
I’m hearing a lot of chatter (mainly on ESPN) that ELI played the game of his life and is 100% elite now. But the dude basically threw 4 interceptions on two passes.
Kickham where it hurts
by say hey nation on Jan 23, 2012 8:57 AM PST up reply actions
I understand the media’s job these days is to lionize players so they have something to market, but the media insisting Eli played well, much less “elite” just makes me shake my head. They only way his game could be considered good is if you don’t look beyond the most superficial stats (Win, Yards, TDs) As noted, he essentially threw multiple interceptions. He threw for 316 yards (holy crap, biblical!) but did it on 58 attempts. A 4.2 average per attempt is pretty horrendous. He simply did not play well. Better than Smith. But not at all well.
The defensive lines were the only real standouts on the day. Perhaps you could loosen the standards and include Gore, Davis and Cruz. But the game really turned on dropped interceptions and Kyle Williams. Which doesn’t make for good storytelling or jersey sales. I just wish some major talking head somewhere would be honest about it.
by BestHyperboleEver on Jan 23, 2012 9:34 AM PST up reply actions
Second only to their douchebags.
"I see these guys walking around with rings on, and I want one. That's what it's all about." -Ryan Vogelsong
49ers front 7 played a heck of a game
Those are the guys I feel bad for.
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
Azmanz Bet: 1st HoF: Clemens > Bonds
by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 23, 2012 9:38 AM PST up reply actions
Best in the league?
Kickham where it hurts
by say hey nation on Jan 23, 2012 9:45 AM PST up reply actions
if not the best, one of
Proud adoptive father of the fastest guy in the Giants system, Jarrett Parker
One of the best moments in Giants history, 11/1/2010
Justin Smith is unbelievable
something at least i’m not used to seeing on the 49ers in previous years
Proud adoptive father of the fastest guy in the Giants system, Jarrett Parker
One of the best moments in Giants history, 11/1/2010
You must be pretty young. The 49ers had a long run of dominant DTs/DEs. Watching Bryant Young was a treat and wasn’t very long ago.
by BestHyperboleEver on Jan 23, 2012 9:54 AM PST up reply actions
That's what i'm saying
it’s been a while. Andre Carter was the last guy to provide any real pass rush
Proud adoptive father of the fastest guy in the Giants system, Jarrett Parker
One of the best moments in Giants history, 11/1/2010
I guess I just don’t consider that all that long ago.
by BestHyperboleEver on Jan 23, 2012 9:56 AM PST up reply actions
haha
i’d say it’s been over 5 years…. Young was a beast, but to have more than one guy rushing the QB providing consistent pressure is something i haven’t seen much at all
Proud adoptive father of the fastest guy in the Giants system, Jarrett Parker
One of the best moments in Giants history, 11/1/2010
Couple things on this
Eli moved the ball way better than Alex did.
Your first sentence sounds like a Tebow defense.
If he can keep his INT % at 1% I’d be ecstatic. Don’t think it’s happening.
Alex also had one awful throw that could’ve/should’ve been picked.
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
I'm going to say anything crazy like Eli's the lesser quarterback ...
But there’s value in not throwing wacky shit into double coverage. It’s a conscious decision that adds to Smith’s value and detracts from Eli’s. I still think Smith is too cautious, but I also think that can be unlearned with time/confidence. I think that’s what we saw in the Saints game, but I think the gameplan for a rainy game was “Just don’t turn the damned ball over” and he regressed.
Your first sentence sounds like a Tebow defense.
Noting that Smith threw two perfect deep balls for touchdowns? Yeah, I’m basically fellating Tebow with that one.
If he can keep his INT % at 1% I’d be ecstatic.
Ha ha ha. No you wouldn’t.
by Grant Brisbee on Jan 23, 2012 9:06 AM PST up reply actions
DFASmith
11 01 10
Veni Vidi Vixi
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Jan 23, 2012 9:14 AM PST up reply actions
Don’t fuckup, Alex Smith?
Once more, coming to you by proxy.
by howtheyscored on Jan 23, 2012 9:16 AM PST up reply actions
It’s just too bad I had to compound “fuck up” to make that work.
Once more, coming to you by proxy.
by howtheyscored on Jan 23, 2012 9:16 AM PST up reply actions
Eli and the Giants offense is more developed. It really isn’t fair to compare them to Alex and the Niners. Did you know Joe Montana threw 3 interceptions in the NFC championship game against the Cowboys in 1982?
Alex threw for more yards on the day and with less attempts than Manning. If not for the fumble by Williams, Manning wouldn’t have had his 2nd TD pass. Manning should have been picked off a couple of times.
Aubrey Huff: "My body is ripped."
by Grant_ME_MERCY on Jan 23, 2012 11:23 AM PST up reply actions
It's easy for them to be more developed.
They have better receivers and a better quarterback.
"I see these guys walking around with rings on, and I want one. That's what it's all about." -Ryan Vogelsong
Eli used to not be good. Actually, he was plain awful.
From what I can tell, Alex is getting better under Harbaugh’s leadership. If the Niners can improve at the the position for next season, great.
Aubrey Huff: "My body is ripped."
by Grant_ME_MERCY on Jan 23, 2012 11:31 AM PST up reply actions
Eli’s first season with a 60% completion percentage and a 2:1 TD:INT ratio was 2008, when he was 27. It’s kind of easy to forget that Smith is only 27, and this was only his 2nd season in which he started every game.
I'm just a teenage dirtbag, baby.
.
Manning’s second full season was reminiscent of his 2005 campaign. He started off playing well and completed over 65 percent of his passes through the first four games. However, he struggled in the second half of the season and his production diminished towards the end of the regular season.
…
For the year, Manning threw for 3,244 yards, 24 touchdowns and 18 interceptions. He completed 57.7 percent of his passes, a five point improvement from 2005, but he again struggled badly in the second half of the season. Manning finished the season with a quarterback efficiency rating of 77.0 (18th in the league) with 6.2 yards per attempt.
All I was trying to point out was that QB’s and offenses need time to develop. Some QB’s are late bloomers. Maybe Alex is one of those type’s or maybe not.
Aubrey Huff: "My body is ripped."
by Grant_ME_MERCY on Jan 23, 2012 11:40 AM PST up reply actions
As long as he continues to throw passes that land two yards before the receiver, I’m going to remain skeptical of his ability to function at a desirable level.
"I see these guys walking around with rings on, and I want one. That's what it's all about." -Ryan Vogelsong
In most cases it’s all about timing and repetition.
He’ll never be one of the greats, that’s for sure. Like I said, if the Niners can improve with someone else, they should. Right now I see Alex as no worse than average.
Aubrey Huff: "My body is ripped."
by Grant_ME_MERCY on Jan 23, 2012 11:52 AM PST up reply actions
I know it’s different and all when you’re being chase by Jason Pierre-Paul and all, but I work with 14-year olds who can make a 3 yard pass to the sideline and hit someone in the chest.
"I see these guys walking around with rings on, and I want one. That's what it's all about." -Ryan Vogelsong
Well there is the 2008 shoulder surgery and the development of new mechanics to consider.
If the Niners do commit more money to him, hopefully they are fully aware of the risks.
His teammates also should have a say in the matter.
Aubrey Huff: "My body is ripped."
by Grant_ME_MERCY on Jan 23, 2012 11:57 AM PST up reply actions
If he’s still hampered by a shoulder surgery that he had three seasons ago, then he shouldn’t be your starting quarterback.
Drew Brees had a far more invasive surgery with a much lower recovery rate, and he has become the most accurate passer in the NFL.
"I see these guys walking around with rings on, and I want one. That's what it's all about." -Ryan Vogelsong
Alex Smith was the #1 overall pick in the 2005 draft for a reason.
SI draft profile:
Accurate in the short field, leads receivers over the middle and places throws where only his target can make the reception.
If he’s partially broken, he’s partially broken. Hopefully the Niners know what they are doing.
Aubrey Huff: "My body is ripped."
by Grant_ME_MERCY on Jan 23, 2012 12:32 PM PST up reply actions
I really think it’s a matter of consistency, which strikes me as having less to do with injury than it does with mechanics in general. See Sanchez, Johnathan.
Throws a dime 40 yards downfield to Davis, bounces a 3 yard checkdown to Gore.
"I see these guys walking around with rings on, and I want one. That's what it's all about." -Ryan Vogelsong
Consistency definitely is his main issue. He improved on it this season. Maybe he continues to improve on it, and maybe he doesn’t.
Aubrey Huff: "My body is ripped."
by Grant_ME_MERCY on Jan 23, 2012 12:39 PM PST up reply actions
He's inconsistently improving his consistency?
11 01 10
Veni Vidi Vixi
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Jan 23, 2012 12:44 PM PST up reply actions
I'd say there's absolutely value in him not turning the ball over
But aren’t turnovers, traditionally, one of the most wildly fluctuating stats from year-to-year?
The most delightful ecumenical contradiction in nomenclature.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
Not really?
I mean, it’s not like batting average.
by Grant Brisbee on Jan 23, 2012 9:16 AM PST up reply actions
Huh. For some reason I thought that was the case.
The most delightful ecumenical contradiction in nomenclature.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
More like HRs.
Adam Dunn can all of a sudden drop down to 20 or whatever, so they can fluctuate. But they are a pretty steady stat.
by Grant Brisbee on Jan 23, 2012 9:19 AM PST up reply actions
Noted.
And thanks.
The most delightful ecumenical contradiction in nomenclature.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
I might have used BB/9. You see guys improve their “control” over time. Tom Brady can go from 2.5% before turning 30 to 1.6% after, after, for instance. But you probably know what you’re getting.
Because the NFL plays a 16 game schedule, notable fluctuations probably have more to do with differences in strength of schedule than the inherent stability of the stat itself.
Once more, coming to you by proxy.
by howtheyscored on Jan 23, 2012 9:25 AM PST up reply actions
I’m not sure about interceptions. Fumbles are basically random possession generators, though.
Once more, coming to you by proxy.
by howtheyscored on Jan 23, 2012 9:18 AM PST up reply actions
STOP TALKING FOOTBALL THE SEASONS OVER!
Kickham where it hurts
by say hey nation on Jan 23, 2012 9:26 AM PST up reply actions
The only thing I will bitch about regarding the game last night
Was the play calling in the last 5 minutes or so. It was pretty fucking terrible.
However, the 49ers essentially win this game if not for Williams. I know folks are trying hard not to pile on the guy, but that fact is hard to deny.
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
Azmanz Bet: 1st HoF: Clemens > Bonds
by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 23, 2012 9:10 AM PST up reply actions
I'd say the entire fourth quarter and overtime were pretty abysmal.
It didn’t help that the Giants were getting that pressure up front like the Ravens seemed to and Smith was back to Smithing his passes, but, there you have it.
Even if Williams hadn’t fumbled, do you really think the 49ers would’ve moved the ball any better than they had before that point? 4 or 5 completely wasted series.
If he doesn’t run towards the ball like an idiot the first time, the game probably nevers gets to OT.
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
Azmanz Bet: 1st HoF: Clemens > Bonds
by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 23, 2012 9:18 AM PST up reply actions
It sucks and it turned out to be a horrible mistake. but:
1. He saw a pretty friendly bounce on the first hop and likely thought he had a chance at a clean pick-up. When the second bounce was less friendly he was in a terrible position.
2. The returner should stay near the ball in case the coverage team touches the ball but doesn’t possess it, allowing him to pick it up and return it risk-free.
I’m not trying to excuse him. Just explain the thought process.
by BestHyperboleEver on Jan 23, 2012 9:41 AM PST up reply actions
He definitely stutter-stepped a few times as he headed towards it.
You could see him thinking “Oh I should get that. No, it’s gonna bounce. Well, mayb- OHNOOOOOOOOOO.”
But
1. He saw a pretty friendly bounce on the first hop and likely thought he had a chance at a clean pick-up.
As Sublime said, “That’swhenthingsgotoutofcontrol.” Returners are supposed to clear out when it hits the ground because oblong balls do not bounce predictably. Again, something Williams should have learned around age six or so.
11 01 10
Veni Vidi Vixi
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Jan 23, 2012 9:55 AM PST up reply actions
Actually, this isn’t Pop Warner. Returners aren’t necessarily supposed to clear out. He should have been more decisive and, in this case, given more space than he did. But he should hang nearby to direct teammates who have their back to the ball, pick it up if the coverage touches the ball but doesn’t down it, and, if he gets a clean bounce, simply recover and fall to the ground to avert the loss of another 10 yards of field position from bounces.
He screwed up, but at this level there are a lot more responsibilities and choices than just catch-it-or-run-screaming-the-other-direction.
by BestHyperboleEver on Jan 23, 2012 10:01 AM PST up reply actions
Yesterday we were giving him a pass for his inexperience.
Now he’s supposed to be Steve Nash out there, knowing where all his teammates are, too?
No.
If he’s so inexperienced and only returning due to injuries, his explicit instructions needed to be catch it or clear out.
11 01 10
Veni Vidi Vixi
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Jan 23, 2012 10:16 AM PST up reply actions
I guess that's that, then.
11 01 10
Veni Vidi Vixi
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Jan 23, 2012 10:21 AM PST up reply actions
Sorry. I didn’t really see where to go from there and I’m not a fan of cyclical arguments.
by BestHyperboleEver on Jan 23, 2012 10:24 AM PST up reply actions
yea... basically
either catch the ball or get the hell out of there and let the ball bounce. He wasn’t the only reason the 49ers lost… but he was alot of it… you have got to secure the ball when you catch it as well
Proud adoptive father of the fastest guy in the Giants system, Jarrett Parker
One of the best moments in Giants history, 11/1/2010
Agreed.
He didn’t use Tom Rathman’s “four-points” ball-securing technique. Which I’m sure he’s heard a thousand times.
And I agree completely that he’s got to catch the ball or get the hell away. (Oh, and one more thing on a near-disaster-that-wasn’t: DON’T DIVE FOR A PUNT. Another one of Williams’ huge mistakes.)
by Here Be Giants on Jan 23, 2012 10:47 AM PST up reply actions
Oddly
And I didn’t know this till today, apparently Williams was known for fumbling in college. In fact, his final play was a fumbled punt return bouncing off his leg in a tie game which ended up as a loss.
Allegedly, something similar happened to him on the last play of his high school career, too.
by Every6thDay on Jan 23, 2012 12:19 PM PST up reply actions
I'm going off a very, very sketchy tweet from last night
(from someone I don’t know who retweeted something I wrote):
@BizarroCuz
Just read Kyle Williams ended his college career w/ a fumbled KO that lost the game, & HS career dropping the game winning TD. #ChokeMachine
by Every6thDay on Jan 23, 2012 12:36 PM PST up reply actions
Well, no wonder everyone predicted the end of his NFL career in the immediate aftermath yesterday. Patterns, man, patterns!
11 01 10
Veni Vidi Vixi
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Jan 23, 2012 12:25 PM PST up reply actions
Yea
Run game was working, pass game wasn’t, and they were passing on 1st, running on second and failing on 3rd and 6.
3rd down was horrible, attack Williams all you want, but I don’t know a team that can win by failing so hard on 3rd down.
Blerg
by Myemail21479 on Jan 23, 2012 9:28 AM PST up reply actions
You know the 49ers, right? Because without Williams mistakes or dropping easy interceptions, they would have done just that. And, to a slightly lesser degree, have been doing just that all season.
by BestHyperboleEver on Jan 23, 2012 9:43 AM PST up reply actions
Yea, that was 4 turnover swing
I haven’t watched every game, since it is out of market, but on redzone I have been keeping an eye on them.
Niners D was impressive. After whatever adjustment they made to Cruz, they shut the Giants down.
Blerg
by Myemail21479 on Jan 23, 2012 9:56 AM PST up reply actions
In general, obviously you’re right. Winning without performing on 3rd down is unsustainable. I was just pointing out that the 49ers have been doing it.
by BestHyperboleEver on Jan 23, 2012 10:13 AM PST up reply actions
There is literally nothing left to do with sports (LOL Sharks LOL Warriors/Kings)
until baseball season begins. AT BEST, we can talk about the terms of whatever extensions the Giants may or may not sign Cain and Lincecum to.
Really sucks.
dude let's rage
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
Kudos, You are a sick, sick man, but you are very good at it -- wcw
Eh. I'm perfectly content with the 49ers only being glorious in my memory.
There’s no need to sully such a glorious run with modern kylefoolery. The league isn’t meant for Californians anyway. The franchise’s success will be a curious footnote in league history and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that.
We'll have much to celebrate when Sabean trades Belt for Alexei Ramirez and ownership opens the coffers for Prince Fielder
Pagan CF
Posey C
Sandoval 3B
Fielder 1B
Ramirez SS
Cabrera RF
Huff LF
Sanchez 2B
Man can dream.
The most delightful ecumenical contradiction in nomenclature.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
1) Alexei is really good
2) Alexei is under contract for 5 years
3) Alexei is cheap. His current contract is 4 years, 31.5 million, with a club option for 10m and one more year.
The most delightful ecumenical contradiction in nomenclature.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
1) He is good, I agree. And consistent; has played in 136 games or more in 4 seasons in a row. And underrated.
2) He is under contract for 5 years. Belt is under contract for 5? years.
3) Belt is cheap too. And 7 years younger.
Yes
But Ramirez is a shortstop. That’s the whole reason.
The most delightful ecumenical contradiction in nomenclature.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
Plus, a decent or passable 1B is going to be easier to come by, and all of the others who can spot start there
I hate to lose Belt, because I love him. LOVE. But this is one of those moves where I’d get it.
Yah no doubt, main reason is he plays shortstop, and plays it well. I just wonder since he’s already what, 28, 29, a few years down the road he’s going to be slowing down and Belt will be in his prime years. But for the next couple of years, I could see where this trade would make a lot of sense for the Giants. And probably the White Sox too.
Easy 2-4 WAR upgrade at SS
and 2-4 WAR at 1B. Fielder would be upgrade to Belt anyways.
It would be a massive upgrade at 2 spots, at the cost of 20-30 mil a year.
Blerg
by Myemail21479 on Jan 23, 2012 9:58 AM PST up reply actions
I think this discussion was limited to the Ramirez for Belt aspect of my plan
The most delightful ecumenical contradiction in nomenclature.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
I can concede that this team needs a SS
but I would think the idea is to try to help the offense by keeping the good hitters (especially the cheap ones) and adding to them.
2012 is going to be awesome!
Of course
If you can trade for Alexei Ramirez without giving up Belt, do it.
But if you have to give up Belt, do it anyway.
The most delightful ecumenical contradiction in nomenclature.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
I would trade Belt for 4-5 years of Alexi in a second too
It would free up 1B or a corner OF spot long term.
Blerg
by Myemail21479 on Jan 23, 2012 10:18 AM PST up reply actions
Posey or one of the 2 catching prospects
Carlos Pena just got 7.25 mil for 1 year. 6.5 Mil at SS gets you Tejada, or 21 mil gets you 3 years of Uribe.
It is just so much more difficult to fill SS with FA money, if internal options are not available.
Blerg
by Myemail21479 on Jan 23, 2012 10:48 AM PST up reply actions
We did not try to get the "Chicago" SS
N-O-T
Blerg
by Myemail21479 on Jan 23, 2012 9:33 AM PST up reply actions
In retrospect, after having slept on it, that 49ers game remains pretty stupid.
Once more, coming to you by proxy.
by howtheyscored on Jan 23, 2012 9:17 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
I refuse to take this as a given.
Once more, coming to you by proxy.
by howtheyscored on Jan 23, 2012 9:26 AM PST up reply actions
Bonkers schedule.
Once more, coming to you by proxy.
by howtheyscored on Jan 23, 2012 9:28 AM PST up reply actions
aging talent?
Justin Smith is the only one I can think of.
proud son of greatgiantfan; b. Apr 29, 2009, d. Jul 30, 2010.
The play calling is really frustrating.
Also, I didn’t watch the last few minutes after the fumble. Did the giants actually run offensive plays?
Kickham where it hurts
by say hey nation on Jan 23, 2012 9:29 AM PST up reply actions
Why? Is that kind of dumb?
Kickham where it hurts
by say hey nation on Jan 23, 2012 9:30 AM PST up reply actions
They were just ramming it up the middle.
As Buck (or Aikman, I don’t remember) said, if they just keep pounding it, they’ll either hit the end zone or improve the FG try. The Niners D really had the fight go out of them at that point.
11 01 10
Veni Vidi Vixi
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Jan 23, 2012 9:34 AM PST up reply actions
Play calling is always moronic/brilliant in retrospect.
by BestHyperboleEver on Jan 23, 2012 9:45 AM PST up reply actions
That playcalling needed no hindsight to be decried as moronic.
I refer you to approximately 50% of the GDT comments yesterday as proof.
11 01 10
Veni Vidi Vixi
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Jan 23, 2012 9:57 AM PST up reply actions
Were they all right after plays that didn’t gain yards?
by BestHyperboleEver on Jan 23, 2012 10:14 AM PST up reply actions
You mean pretty much all of them?
Yep.
11 01 10
Veni Vidi Vixi
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Jan 23, 2012 10:20 AM PST up reply actions
Yep.
The draw on 3rd and 8 is brilliant if it works and moronic if it doesn’t. That’s just the way it goes.
by BestHyperboleEver on Jan 23, 2012 10:22 AM PST up reply actions
And the passes and the passes and the passes and the passes
were moronic at the time. Passing the ball in the second half with the lead and a dominating defense = moronic.
11 01 10
Veni Vidi Vixi
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Jan 23, 2012 10:23 AM PST up reply actions
was that just a rumor, Fielder and the Nats?
proud son of greatgiantfan; b. Apr 29, 2009, d. Jul 30, 2010.
Makin' me proud, Sacramento!
A 35-yo radio station intern got the entire Bill Walsh coaching tree tattooed on his ass for tickets to the game.
11 01 10
Veni Vidi Vixi
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Jan 23, 2012 10:00 AM PST reply actions
wow... well, at least he went to a good game
Proud adoptive father of the fastest guy in the Giants system, Jarrett Parker
One of the best moments in Giants history, 11/1/2010
DAMMIT, Tigers could've had him!!!
DKnobler DKnobler
On Oswalt, I hear the Tigers were very interested (even had Verlander call him), but he didn’t want to go to Detroit. May land in Boston.
Proud adoptive father of the fastest guy in the Giants system, Jarrett Parker
One of the best moments in Giants history, 11/1/2010
WHITE WHALE
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
Azmanz Bet: 1st HoF: Clemens > Bonds
by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 23, 2012 10:03 AM PST up reply actions
ALBINO TROUT!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
Azmanz Bet: 1st HoF: Clemens > Bonds
by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 23, 2012 10:08 AM PST up reply actions
Wait, you tricked me, whales are mammals.
by GuyWhiteyCorngood on Jan 23, 2012 10:11 AM PST up reply actions
PLAID PORPOISE
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Jan 23, 2012 10:24 AM PST up reply actions
ANGRY ANGLERFISH
I'm a Giants Fan, but I'll always be rooting for Matt Downs
Adopted Son:Dan Burkhart , Future Backup To Buster Posey.
My previous year's white whales have all turned out to be bad things
Nick Johnson
Justin Duchschererererer
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
Azmanz Bet: 1st HoF: Clemens > Bonds
by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 23, 2012 10:13 AM PST up reply actions
lol u
"Baseball is a red-blooded sport for red-blooded men. It's no pink tea, and mollycoddles had better stay out." -Ty Cobb
Mayor of Smug.
SIGN ALL THE INJURED DUDES!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
Azmanz Bet: 1st HoF: Clemens > Bonds
by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 23, 2012 10:16 AM PST up reply actions
Dunno, but damn
Proud adoptive father of the fastest guy in the Giants system, Jarrett Parker
One of the best moments in Giants history, 11/1/2010
I'm trying to pick out a picture of Buster for my desktop.
Any suggestions? I can’t decide whether I want batting or catching or jumping for joy.
2012 is going to be awesome!
This pictures shows his bendy skills
by say hey nation on Jan 23, 2012 10:26 AM PST up reply actions
/flagged?
Proud adoptive father of the fastest guy in the Giants system, Jarrett Parker
One of the best moments in Giants history, 11/1/2010
/BANNED!!!!
Proud adoptive father of the fastest guy in the Giants system, Jarrett Parker
One of the best moments in Giants history, 11/1/2010
/NO U
Proud adoptive father of the fastest guy in the Giants system, Jarrett Parker
One of the best moments in Giants history, 11/1/2010
split personalities suck
Proud adoptive father of the fastest guy in the Giants system, Jarrett Parker
One of the best moments in Giants history, 11/1/2010
That one of him pumping his fist rounding first, with him lit against the shadowed RF stands.
11 01 10
Veni Vidi Vixi
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Jan 23, 2012 10:27 AM PST up reply actions
It seems like we will be seeing him playing a lot of first base this season
"They'll put a man on the moon before I hit a home run." ~ Gaylord Perry
by calgiants86 on Jan 23, 2012 10:30 AM PST up reply actions
Conidering that Belt wont get 200 AB's this season and another year of team control will be squandered
that’s a pretty good idea.
GIANTS BASEBALL: HOPE LIKE HELL!
by Cody_ransom on Jan 23, 2012 11:29 AM PST up reply actions
I'd take that bet.
"I see these guys walking around with rings on, and I want one. That's what it's all about." -Ryan Vogelsong
That he gets over 200 PAs.
"I see these guys walking around with rings on, and I want one. That's what it's all about." -Ryan Vogelsong
?
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Jan 23, 2012 10:31 AM PST up reply actions
Or..
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Jan 23, 2012 10:31 AM PST up reply actions
Last one
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Jan 23, 2012 10:32 AM PST up reply actions
GP as Thomas?
"They'll put a man on the moon before I hit a home run." ~ Gaylord Perry
by calgiants86 on Jan 23, 2012 10:38 AM PST up reply actions
Aye.
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Jan 23, 2012 10:39 AM PST up reply actions
xx
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
Kudos, You are a sick, sick man, but you are very good at it -- wcw
That looks painful.
There are some good ones of Buster & Madbum planning world domination on the mound.
2012 is going to be awesome!
Man... Giants fans on twitter talking about how Fielder will come to the Giants
Proud adoptive father of the fastest guy in the Giants system, Jarrett Parker
One of the best moments in Giants history, 11/1/2010
My sister asked me about it a couple of weeks ago. I don’t know where this shit comes from.
2012 is going to be awesome!
Shit usually comes from assholes.
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
An astute observation, from a scientific mind.
"They'll put a man on the moon before I hit a home run." ~ Gaylord Perry
by calgiants86 on Jan 23, 2012 10:39 AM PST up reply actions
“usually”
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
Kudos, You are a sick, sick man, but you are very good at it -- wcw
Colostomy.
"They'll put a man on the moon before I hit a home run." ~ Gaylord Perry
by calgiants86 on Jan 23, 2012 10:47 AM PST up reply actions
you know what “an astute observation, from a scientific mind” was? You losing in NHL 12… some of the time at least… and Marleau running into the boards, lol
Proud adoptive father of the fastest guy in the Giants system, Jarrett Parker
One of the best moments in Giants history, 11/1/2010
lol I suck haha. Don’t get to play that often :(. Marleau killing himself was amazing though.
"They'll put a man on the moon before I hit a home run." ~ Gaylord Perry
by calgiants86 on Jan 23, 2012 10:54 AM PST up reply actions
Haha, i don’t either to be honest, it’s mostly NBA 2k12, and i need to start playing Batman… i have no idea what that was with Marleau, haha, funniest thing i’ve seen, should’ve saved it
Proud adoptive father of the fastest guy in the Giants system, Jarrett Parker
One of the best moments in Giants history, 11/1/2010
Snappy Hank
Henry Schulman @hankschulman
You speak to him? Can i quote you? RT @yossarianboogie: Except that he doesn’t want to be a Giant in 5 years. Not at the rate they’re going.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
Kudos, You are a sick, sick man, but you are very good at it -- wcw
With 140 characters, I would think someone who considers himself a writer, seeing as he gets paid to do it, could squeeze in “Did” at the beginning of his question.
by GuyWhiteyCorngood on Jan 23, 2012 10:53 AM PST up reply actions
Bonus Rosterbation
…Dodgers fans hope that Fielder is a holdout for a big contract with the new ownership
Sharks hockey, college basketball, warriors... Gaels ranked #20/21? THANK GOD
Proud adoptive father of the fastest guy in the Giants system, Jarrett Parker
One of the best moments in Giants history, 11/1/2010
lol sharks hockey
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
Kudos, You are a sick, sick man, but you are very good at it -- wcw
considering going to more Gaels games
Proud adoptive father of the fastest guy in the Giants system, Jarrett Parker
One of the best moments in Giants history, 11/1/2010
that Bronco/Gaels game was awesome Saturday night
Proud adoptive father of the fastest guy in the Giants system, Jarrett Parker
One of the best moments in Giants history, 11/1/2010
TEBOW TEBOW TEBOW
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
Kudos, You are a sick, sick man, but you are very good at it -- wcw
HEY, WHAT THE HELL
Proud adoptive father of the fastest guy in the Giants system, Jarrett Parker
One of the best moments in Giants history, 11/1/2010
Sorry, amigo. Basketball just doesn’t do it for me. Glad that you can get into it though, February is a rough month for the sports fan who can’t.
Is it February 19 yet?
Ha, for sure, February is probably the slowest month of the year sportswise, but luckily only 28 days
Proud adoptive father of the fastest guy in the Giants system, Jarrett Parker
One of the best moments in Giants history, 11/1/2010
Sorry, you get 3.6% more February this year.
"Man, you just can't beat a good bowl of gumbo." ~ William Nuschler Clark
WHAT!?!?!!!!!!!!!!
Proud adoptive father of the fastest guy in the Giants system, Jarrett Parker
One of the best moments in Giants history, 11/1/2010
Not on my work calendar. February only has 27 days this year.
by GuyWhiteyCorngood on Jan 23, 2012 11:10 AM PST up reply actions
Agreed
but they are driving me insane. I think they actually make me miss baseball more.
2012 is going to be awesome!
Still first in the division! I still have my soccer and rugby and world rally championship.
"They'll put a man on the moon before I hit a home run." ~ Gaylord Perry
by calgiants86 on Jan 23, 2012 10:55 AM PST up reply actions
oh and tennis!
"They'll put a man on the moon before I hit a home run." ~ Gaylord Perry
by calgiants86 on Jan 23, 2012 10:56 AM PST up reply actions
Tennis goes without saying but it's only another week.
But once I get DirecTV, I’m gonna watch every Davis Cup match, every damn tourney-of-the-week.
2012 is going to be awesome!
It's weird
but I’m much more upbeat when the Giants are 4 games out than when the Sharks are leading the division.
2012 is going to be awesome!
I like the tournament
But other than that I don’t watch college basketball.
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
Azmanz Bet: 1st HoF: Clemens > Bonds
by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 23, 2012 10:53 AM PST up reply actions
I watch my crappy team
But not much else.
The most delightful ecumenical contradiction in nomenclature.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
George Washington?
Proud adoptive father of the fastest guy in the Giants system, Jarrett Parker
One of the best moments in Giants history, 11/1/2010
Go COLONIALS!
"They'll put a man on the moon before I hit a home run." ~ Gaylord Perry
by calgiants86 on Jan 23, 2012 10:56 AM PST up reply actions
Season ticket holder, right here.
They’re on a nice little run right now, having beat Richmond and Charlotte. Hopefully it portends more good things.
The most delightful ecumenical contradiction in nomenclature.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
Hell yeah! We have gone to a couple Colonials games pretty fun.
"They'll put a man on the moon before I hit a home run." ~ Gaylord Perry
by calgiants86 on Jan 23, 2012 11:00 AM PST up reply actions
New A's Fans
The COLONials
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
Kudos, You are a sick, sick man, but you are very good at it -- wcw
.
"They'll put a man on the moon before I hit a home run." ~ Gaylord Perry
by calgiants86 on Jan 23, 2012 11:02 AM PST up reply actions
I was in Phoenix this weekend. We stayed right across the street from the Mariners/Padres stadium. It got me pretty excited about Spring Training.
by BestHyperboleEver on Jan 23, 2012 11:34 AM PST up reply actions
quick question: The Show or MLB 2k
Proud adoptive father of the fastest guy in the Giants system, Jarrett Parker
One of the best moments in Giants history, 11/1/2010
What makes The Show that much better
Proud adoptive father of the fastest guy in the Giants system, Jarrett Parker
One of the best moments in Giants history, 11/1/2010
The pitching, the hitting, the fielding, the commentary, the injuries, the graphics, the pretty much everything.
"They'll put a man on the moon before I hit a home run." ~ Gaylord Perry
by calgiants86 on Jan 23, 2012 11:14 AM PST up reply actions
I wholeheartedly disagree with the pitching.
The analog pitching is infinitely better in 2K, and the standard pitching is the same thing we’ve been playing since 2000
They have analogue pitching in the show too. sooo yeah
"They'll put a man on the moon before I hit a home run." ~ Gaylord Perry
by calgiants86 on Jan 23, 2012 11:16 AM PST up reply actions
/doesn’t use analogue pitching
"They'll put a man on the moon before I hit a home run." ~ Gaylord Perry
by calgiants86 on Jan 23, 2012 11:17 AM PST up reply actions
Okay then
The show’s pitching has been the standard for about 10 years. I’m not trying to say it’s bad, it’s just a beaten horse.
I like the analog pitching because it’s a bit more engaging, and I just found 2K’s more fun.
Look, I'm not trying to say that The Show is anything but the best baseball game available
But 2K is not a shitty game. They had one really bad year in 09, but they’ve been consistent, reliable time sinking entertainment otherwise. They’re a bit buggy, yes, and the commentary’s crappy, but even the Show’s gets old by the third game in two days.
Was 2K9 really that much worse than the other versions?
Because that’s the only one that I played extensively in the 2K series. I wish EA Sports still made a baseball game.
I'm just a teenage dirtbag, baby.
Yeah, the QA was probably the worst on it that year.
I only ever buy one sports game a generation, but this time I went for 2 because 2K11 was a hell of a lot more put together, and hey, we had just won.
Makes sense
I could have waited for two weeks to get 2K10, but I didn’t want to wait and I wanted the one with Timmy on the cover. Too bad the game didn’t do the cover justice.
I'm just a teenage dirtbag, baby.
things i wish for:
EA making baseball games
2K making football games again
COMPETITION is always good for the consumer
Proud adoptive father of the fastest guy in the Giants system, Jarrett Parker
One of the best moments in Giants history, 11/1/2010
I almost like the pitching a ton in 2k… but i haven’t played The Show yet, so i wouldn’t know, definitely going to check some reviews too
Proud adoptive father of the fastest guy in the Giants system, Jarrett Parker
One of the best moments in Giants history, 11/1/2010
need to check the tape too
Proud adoptive father of the fastest guy in the Giants system, Jarrett Parker
One of the best moments in Giants history, 11/1/2010
The Show is epic good. 2K wins as far as presentation and analog pitching goes, but those aren’t game breakers.
Fuck Armageddon, this is hell.
one thing 2k lacks at is probably gameplay outside of pitching, fielding is just always interesting
Proud adoptive father of the fastest guy in the Giants system, Jarrett Parker
One of the best moments in Giants history, 11/1/2010
my only complaint is that
and the hitting is interesting
Proud adoptive father of the fastest guy in the Giants system, Jarrett Parker
One of the best moments in Giants history, 11/1/2010
The gameplay is infinitely better. 2K would occasionally glitch and have ridiculous errors occur. The Show is a bit better graphically, and much more realistic. It is a harder game to play, but it’s worth it. Also, Road to the Show lets you create a player and take your career from AA to the majors.
I'm just a teenage dirtbag, baby.
2K would occasionally glitch and have ridiculous errors occur.
That is a bit redundant, seeing as the definition of 2k Sports is “a horribly made, buggy game, that lacks polish and proper testing”
by GuyWhiteyCorngood on Jan 23, 2012 11:17 AM PST up reply actions
NFL 2k5 was probably my favorite sports game
Proud adoptive father of the fastest guy in the Giants system, Jarrett Parker
One of the best moments in Giants history, 11/1/2010
I’ll admit I’ve never played a 2k football game.
by GuyWhiteyCorngood on Jan 23, 2012 11:24 AM PST up reply actions
also that 2k11 Jordan basketball game
was pretty damn good.
And yeah, I had 2K5 back in the day. It was phenomenal.
2k12 is unbelievable, i absolutely love the fact they put the history in the game too
Proud adoptive father of the fastest guy in the Giants system, Jarrett Parker
One of the best moments in Giants history, 11/1/2010
I’ve heard really good things about that game. I think that might be my next game purchase.
I'm just a teenage dirtbag, baby.
Well, people might not like basketball games because they are kinda fluckey, but this one has some of the best commentary in any game i’ve played and all the historic teams in it. Fun game
Proud adoptive father of the fastest guy in the Giants system, Jarrett Parker
One of the best moments in Giants history, 11/1/2010
/Doris Burke’d
"They'll put a man on the moon before I hit a home run." ~ Gaylord Perry
by calgiants86 on Jan 23, 2012 11:31 AM PST up reply actions
sideline reporter... solid
Proud adoptive father of the fastest guy in the Giants system, Jarrett Parker
One of the best moments in Giants history, 11/1/2010
oh hell no shes terrible. Steve Kerr is the only tolerable announcer on that game. Still fun though. Also it seems like every time I play it when I have friends over one of the announcers invariable mentions, “throwing it down like pound cake.”
"They'll put a man on the moon before I hit a home run." ~ Gaylord Perry
by calgiants86 on Jan 23, 2012 11:36 AM PST up reply actions
Meh, i like Sager, Kellogg, and Kerr, Burke’s hardly in the game though. I just like the conversations they have about every team, and go in depth even about the history of the team
Proud adoptive father of the fastest guy in the Giants system, Jarrett Parker
One of the best moments in Giants history, 11/1/2010
I must have a different copy or something. Seriously 90% of the time they are talking about NOT THE GAME. “Udonis Haslem changed his underwear last season and that really helped his 3pt percentage” type bullshit. And then Doris Burke pops up like every 20 seconds. LOL
"They'll put a man on the moon before I hit a home run." ~ Gaylord Perry
by calgiants86 on Jan 23, 2012 11:39 AM PST up reply actions
hahahaha, yea, i know man, they hardly talk about what’s going on, but seriously, i’d rather hear about the history/stuff about the team or players than what’s going on, i know what’s going on since i’m playing it, lol
Proud adoptive father of the fastest guy in the Giants system, Jarrett Parker
One of the best moments in Giants history, 11/1/2010
My favourite Doris Burke-ism
“That’s my boy, from Day 1. Before the NBA. That’s my college roommate,” he said of the former University of Florida standout. “Our relationship is a lot deeper than just basketball. He’s like Dwyane is to me, except we’re just different colors”
Udonis Haslem (racist) on Mike Bibby
"They'll put a man on the moon before I hit a home run." ~ Gaylord Perry
by calgiants86 on Jan 23, 2012 11:43 AM PST up reply actions
HA, way to go Haslem
Proud adoptive father of the fastest guy in the Giants system, Jarrett Parker
One of the best moments in Giants history, 11/1/2010
He’s like my friend just a different color .. woooow lol
"They'll put a man on the moon before I hit a home run." ~ Gaylord Perry
by calgiants86 on Jan 23, 2012 11:44 AM PST up reply actions
How about just saying he’s your friend and call it a day?
Proud adoptive father of the fastest guy in the Giants system, Jarrett Parker
One of the best moments in Giants history, 11/1/2010
exactly lol. It’s become an inside joke with me and my buddies
"They'll put a man on the moon before I hit a home run." ~ Gaylord Perry
by calgiants86 on Jan 23, 2012 11:47 AM PST up reply actions
Thanks
I think I played 2K8 or 2K9 a few years ago and I thought it was decent. I expect basketball games to have a few glitches because of the continuous movement, but I always liked NBA Live and March Madness in the mid 2000s.
I'm just a teenage dirtbag, baby.
Yea, if you thought 2k8 and 2k9 were decent, 2k12 will absolutely blow your mind. Great graphics, and the production/gameplay is pretty spot on for the most part… warriors are a running team, that’s the only way to play them in the game, lol
Proud adoptive father of the fastest guy in the Giants system, Jarrett Parker
One of the best moments in Giants history, 11/1/2010
I love the Legends mode, replaying historic matchups. 94 Knicks vs Magic? Showtime Lakers against the Clyde Drexler Blazers? So cool.
Fuck Armageddon, this is hell.
It was very well done.
"We didn’t win our independence from the British to watch Aaron Rowand hit this bad"
"There is not seeing the ball well, and then there is that." - David B. Flemming describing an Aaron Rowand AB.
by 1ManWolfPack on Jan 23, 2012 11:35 AM PST up reply actions
Road to the Show is better in concept than execution
I got annoyed at the silly “points into skills” system and the mostly arbitrary (i.e., not actually skill based) things I was assigned to do to get more points. I wanted a simpler system, and I especially wanted the ability to just take over the career of a current MLB player. Why, why cannot I not just play out Pablo’s career, or Cain’s? That’s all I really want.
I'm as tall as Mel. Why can't I hit 500 home runs?
Or when they tell you to steal in stupid situations and get benched when you fail.
"They'll put a man on the moon before I hit a home run." ~ Gaylord Perry
by calgiants86 on Jan 23, 2012 12:03 PM PST up reply actions
I hate that! Well, that and the fact that if they tell you to steal you have to go on the first pitch of the AB. If I don’t go then because the pitcher was holding me really close, and then I steal on the second pitch of the AB, I still fail that objective.
I’ve heard they’ve made some improvements to the goal requirements in the last couple of years though. I think they got rid of requiring you to get x number of rbi over the next 2 weeks type of thing. It pisses me off so much when they tell me to get 10 rbi and then in then I get 8 PA with runners in scoring position. Hope you’re batting 1.000 with RISP and sock a few dingers!
by GuyWhiteyCorngood on Jan 23, 2012 12:32 PM PST up reply actions
The Show >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Steaming Pile of Poop >>>>>>>>>>>>> MLB 2k
"They'll put a man on the moon before I hit a home run." ~ Gaylord Perry
by calgiants86 on Jan 23, 2012 11:10 AM PST up reply actions
I saw Moneyball this weekend. That’s about all I can say about it.
by GuyWhiteyCorngood on Jan 23, 2012 11:11 AM PST up reply actions
Nah, I think this opinion's bullshit.
2k is up to the standards of an average sports game that most people are used to. Average just isn’t good enough anymore. The pitching’s fun, and the general gameplay is entertaining. The production values are clearly less, and the modes are lacking but it is by no stretch a bad game.
It’s basically average and worth playing if you need a baseball game and you’ve only got an Xbox.
right, so if you're stuck with 2k
it’s decent, but if you have the choice, it’s clearly the show?
Proud adoptive father of the fastest guy in the Giants system, Jarrett Parker
One of the best moments in Giants history, 11/1/2010
ok, that makes sense
Proud adoptive father of the fastest guy in the Giants system, Jarrett Parker
One of the best moments in Giants history, 11/1/2010
One big thing I really liked about 2K that you don't get in the Show
is the option to decide your own destiny in their My Player mode. It’s not that realistic, but I didn’t want my player to be traded from the Giants. In the Show’s Road To The Show mode, you have no choice. They will trade you, and trade the shit out of you. If you play 2-3 seasons, expect to be traded at least twice. Usually always before you get to the majors.
An option to turn off trades would have been cool. But I’m just being picky.
Fuck Armageddon, this is hell.
Damn, but that’s kinda like being on a major league team anyway, being traded around all over the place
Proud adoptive father of the fastest guy in the Giants system, Jarrett Parker
One of the best moments in Giants history, 11/1/2010
I agree, it’s cool for its realism. But for whatever reason my players keep ending up on the Diamondbacks, and it kills me inside.
Fuck Armageddon, this is hell.
That’s true, but it does seem excessive. If it happened occasionally, it would be perfect. But it seems to happen in every career mode started. In real baseball, teams do hang on to their prospects sometimes.
I'm just a teenage dirtbag, baby.
Don’t hold me to this, but I think if you go into “my sliders”, you can set it so trades aren’t made as often.
by S. Pickford #25 on Jan 23, 2012 11:35 AM PST up reply actions
Bummer. I’m in my second season and haven’t been traded yet. I’m now a little sad about this.
by S. Pickford #25 on Jan 23, 2012 11:43 AM PST up reply actions
LOL YOUR TRADE VALUE!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
Azmanz Bet: 1st HoF: Clemens > Bonds
by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 23, 2012 11:44 AM PST up reply actions
Giants gave me a 7 year 100 million contract after my rookie season.
"They'll put a man on the moon before I hit a home run." ~ Gaylord Perry
by calgiants86 on Jan 23, 2012 12:01 PM PST up reply actions
Wait, what? via Mike Sando
“He thinks he may have separated his shoulder in the third quarter, so he is in the training room,” Kenny Williams said by phone from San Francisco.
Proud adoptive father of the fastest guy in the Giants system, Jarrett Parker
One of the best moments in Giants history, 11/1/2010
bout Kyle
Proud adoptive father of the fastest guy in the Giants system, Jarrett Parker
One of the best moments in Giants history, 11/1/2010
“That information he has not said anything about publicly and will not because he felt strongly that he could get the job done. There are no excuses; we don’t do that. I don’t want that misconstrued.”
Proud adoptive father of the fastest guy in the Giants system, Jarrett Parker
One of the best moments in Giants history, 11/1/2010
Oops.
Aubrey Huff: "My body is ripped."
by Grant_ME_MERCY on Jan 23, 2012 11:14 AM PST up reply actions
.
ESPNChicago.com
San Francisco 49ers punt returner Kyle Williams was playing with an injured left shoulder Sunday when his fumble in overtime set up the New York Giants for a game-winning field goal in the NFC Championship Game, according to Williams’ father.
Chicago White Sox general manager Kenny Williams said that his son was undergoing treatment Monday with the 49ers training staff for an unspecified shoulder injury.
“He thinks he may have separated his shoulder in the third quarter, so he is in the training room,” Kenny Williams said by phone from San Francisco. “That information he has not said anything about publicly and will not because he felt strongly that he could get the job done. There are no excuses; we don’t do that. I don’t want that misconstrued.”
Kyle Williams, a second-year player out of Arizona State, made two miscues late in Sunday’s game. Aside from his overtime fumble, a rolling punt early in the fourth quarter glanced off his knee. The Giants recovered that at the 49ers’ 29-yard line and scored a go-ahead touchdown less than three minutes later.
I count four mistakes Williams made in the game. The first was the fumble on the reverse play that should have been recovered by the Giants. The second was him diving, and somehow catching, for a punt. The third was letting the bouncing punt ball touch him. One of the first things they teach you in high school is to stay away from a punt ball if it’s on the ground and you have no intent on picking it up. And lastly the fumbled football in overtime. In a situation like that, the punt returner should know that the most important thing is to protect the football because it could instantly lose your team the game.
It was more than just physical errors Williams made, it was also mental errors. My dad called the him a “hotdog”, and I agree. He’s a cocky, stupid little guy. I still want him back next season, though.
Aubrey Huff: "My body is ripped."
by Grant_ME_MERCY on Jan 23, 2012 11:14 AM PST reply actions
Yea
There were also 2 dropped INTs when 2 defenders crashed into each other. Those were big swings.
And 0 for 3rd down for the offense, the final nail in the coffin. All 3 things had to happen for the Giants to win…. and they did.
Blerg
by Myemail21479 on Jan 23, 2012 11:27 AM PST up reply actions
Kyle Williams:
The 49ers’ answer to Cody Ransom.
by betterthanbochy on Jan 23, 2012 11:50 AM PST up reply actions
This was what I was thinking.
Aubrey Huff: "My body is ripped."
by Grant_ME_MERCY on Jan 23, 2012 11:58 AM PST up reply actions
Fifth mistake:
waving for a fair catch at the 15 with 20 yards of running room in front of him.
11 01 10
Veni Vidi Vixi
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Jan 23, 2012 11:59 AM PST up reply actions
might have to do with muffing the punt before
Proud adoptive father of the fastest guy in the Giants system, Jarrett Parker
One of the best moments in Giants history, 11/1/2010
No doubt.
Once things started going wrong for the poor kid, he just kept zigging where he needed to zag and vice versa.
TBH, both Harbaughs kinda screwed their special teams yesterday:
- Williams, with four screwups under his belt already on the afternoon, shouldn’t have been put in a position to make a fifth one with the game on the line.
- Baltimore’s kicker came sprinting out with like 10 seconds on the play clock and rushed the kick despite having a timeout left.
11 01 10
Veni Vidi Vixi
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Jan 23, 2012 12:19 PM PST up reply actions
Yes! I remember this.
Aubrey Huff: "My body is ripped."
by Grant_ME_MERCY on Jan 23, 2012 12:33 PM PST up reply actions
I think I would favor rebuilding to huge contracts for Cain and Timmy.
Ban me.
But seriously, Do we want 250 million tied up in two pitchers? I think the team would be more competitive over the next 6 years of they traded them now.
I fear however that Sabean and ownership is so concerned with not bottoming out and getting tagged as a “rebuilding” team that they would rather drop 250-300 million on these guys.
GIANTS BASEBALL: HOPE LIKE HELL!
If Cain's deal's nice
Then you have an alright rotation and can rebuild without bottoming out entirely when you trade Tim for a middle rotation guy and some decent building blocks.
This is doomsday for me. But I don’t know if I can be as passionate about this team if they let Cain walk. It was hard enough watching what happened to Noah.
I am super cool with Cain at less than 20 mil a year
Especially at 5 years or less.
Tim I prefer to see him pitch one more year. If he can resume the 7+WAR, or even 6, then he is worth the gamble, for such a high end.
Blerg
by Myemail21479 on Jan 23, 2012 11:29 AM PST up reply actions
I am hoping for a Weaver type deal for Cain
Timmy is harder to read. Need to see how the next two years play out
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
by CalBear949 on Jan 23, 2012 11:48 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
It's gonna take 300 actually. My first post was way too optimistic.
Tim should demand 200 million unless he sees a substantial decline over the next two seasons.
Lincecum for me is the PERFECT trade chip. He still has two years of team control, and he’s already given you what are likely his best seasons. I am fine with 40-42 million over then 2 seasons, but after that, I’m not that interested in 7 years for 180 million.
GIANTS BASEBALL: HOPE LIKE HELL!
by Cody_ransom on Jan 23, 2012 11:28 AM PST up reply actions
Nobody getting paid close to $20M is a perfect trade chip.
"I see these guys walking around with rings on, and I want one. That's what it's all about." -Ryan Vogelsong
Fair enough.
But I think there would be multiple suitors, because it’s still very probable that he will outperform his salary even if he gets 45 million for the next two seasons. If the Giants threw in 7-8 million they could get a massive haul for two years of Lincecum.
GIANTS BASEBALL: HOPE LIKE HELL!
by Cody_ransom on Jan 23, 2012 11:37 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah. The team's ultimate trading chip (pitching wise), easily, is Bumgarner.
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
Easily.
"I see these guys walking around with rings on, and I want one. That's what it's all about." -Ryan Vogelsong
Honestly
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
Truly Madly Deeply
"I see these guys walking around with rings on, and I want one. That's what it's all about." -Ryan Vogelsong
Ostensibly
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
There's probably at leas one team out there that will pay 7/180
But it’ll be interesting to see what happens with Fielder because he’s a bit analagous to Timmy in that he has a body that historically wouldn’t hold up at his position and he’s already produced MVP calibur numbers.
GIANTS BASEBALL: HOPE LIKE HELL!
by Cody_ransom on Jan 23, 2012 11:35 AM PST up reply actions
We really wouldn't be more competitive.
You’re not always going to get surplus value. Sometimes, it’s better to hang onto the value you already have, as there’s no guarantee you will get that value back.
Maybe you can get a good package in return for one of them, though I have my doubts given how much they’re being paid. But doing so requires all but torpedoing the pitching staff, when you could just let their contracts play out the string, offer arbitration, and then get a first round pick if they walk.
"I see these guys walking around with rings on, and I want one. That's what it's all about." -Ryan Vogelsong
I agree that letting the contracts play out
is probably the best strategy.
GIANTS BASEBALL: HOPE LIKE HELL!
by Cody_ransom on Jan 23, 2012 11:38 AM PST up reply actions
I think Cain can be retained at a reasonable price, and should be retained. His departure is also of more immediate concern, as our pitching talent in the farm system needs more time. Tim, on the other hand, will probably be overpaid by whatever team takes him – Giants or otherwise – perhaps by a full win’s worth (I’m guessing he makes at roughly $26M AAV). So I’d rather hang on to Cain.
"I see these guys walking around with rings on, and I want one. That's what it's all about." -Ryan Vogelsong
This
Also trade value for Timmy in 2013
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
by CalBear949 on Jan 23, 2012 11:46 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
I think this is unfeasible, and because of the payroll politics would result in a PR nightmare for Sabean. I doubt this happens.
"I see these guys walking around with rings on, and I want one. That's what it's all about." -Ryan Vogelsong
Depends on what Timmy is asking for and the trade return
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
by CalBear949 on Jan 23, 2012 11:50 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Unless the Giants eat pretty much all of his salary, I don’t see them getting anything even marginally useful in return.
"I see these guys walking around with rings on, and I want one. That's what it's all about." -Ryan Vogelsong
Obvious it would be to a team that could re-sign him
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
by CalBear949 on Jan 23, 2012 11:53 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Not too many teams that have room to take on that kind of payroll
That are in contention.
"I see these guys walking around with rings on, and I want one. That's what it's all about." -Ryan Vogelsong
Jesus, the Mets got Wheeler for 2 months of Beltran! Why does everyone keep saying this? Surely, Tim will fetch something useful, even if you wait.
2012 is going to be awesome!
we don't get to deal against Brian Sabean
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
Kudos, You are a sick, sick man, but you are very good at it -- wcw
2 months of Big Papi!
"They'll put a man on the moon before I hit a home run." ~ Gaylord Perry
by calgiants86 on Jan 23, 2012 11:56 AM PST up reply actions
Even if they could, I wouldn't count on it.
Plus, given the talk around Wheeler I wouldn’t call a maybe-starter-maybe-closer who’s had mixed numbers and is three years away from the majors an amazing return.
"I see these guys walking around with rings on, and I want one. That's what it's all about." -Ryan Vogelsong
Pitching prospects are also extremely hard to project. Because of Wheeler’s control problems in the low minors, talk has started of him moving to the bullpen, namely as a closer.
His ceiling is top-25, but he is not looking as much like a lead pipe lock for a #1 or #2 SP as he once did.
"I see these guys walking around with rings on, and I want one. That's what it's all about." -Ryan Vogelsong
I agree that pitching prospects are hard to project, mainly bc of injury concerns, but I think the concerns about moving Wheeler to the bullpen are overblown. He’s the clear top prospect for the mets, over another sp prospect matt harvey.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/top-15-prospects-new-york-mets/
Being the clear top prospect for the Mess
is not exactly the highest praise in the world.
11 01 10
Veni Vidi Vixi
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Jan 23, 2012 12:20 PM PST up reply actions
There’s also the fact that pitching is really fucking hard. I’d consider “putting it all together” as a much bigger barrier to success as a SP than injury.
"I see these guys walking around with rings on, and I want one. That's what it's all about." -Ryan Vogelsong
Except for the part where you throw strikes.
"I see these guys walking around with rings on, and I want one. That's what it's all about." -Ryan Vogelsong
7 for 180 is too much
5 for 120 with 6th year option to 150 is my max. That might be high for some here, I agree it is high.
Blerg
Doh
/reply fail
Response is to Cody Ransom…
Blerg
by Myemail21479 on Jan 23, 2012 11:32 AM PST up reply actions
That’s way too much money for Cody Ransom.
Giants Baseball: Hope like hell™
Proud father of the man in charge of taking your hard-earned cash.
lulz, was thinking the same thing
Bold Prediction: Pablo Sandoval finishes 1st or 2nd in 2012 NL MVP voting. I'm Twittering now (well maybe not literally now): @GoofusMcP
A 5/120 deal is essentially a 3 year/80 million dollar FA contract
Why the hell would he take that?
The most delightful ecumenical contradiction in nomenclature.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
he likes SF?
Proud adoptive father of the fastest guy in the Giants system, Jarrett Parker
One of the best moments in Giants history, 11/1/2010
He could easily get 6 or 7 years on the open market, though.
Carter Jurica!
"Has anyone really been for even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?"
by GrahamCrakalaka on Jan 23, 2012 11:34 AM PST up reply actions
He wont get 80 million for 3 if
He continues to slide under a 4 WAR mark
Or, he gets hurt.
It would be buying some insurance, and he could get 25 mil a year for 5-6 years. Should he have no injuries, at 32-33 he could still lock up another big contract.
Blerg
by Myemail21479 on Jan 23, 2012 11:58 AM PST up reply actions
He probably won't take it
I was just saying, that is about my limit of comfort.
Blerg
by Myemail21479 on Jan 23, 2012 11:59 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah Sacramento!
The new terminal is nice
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
by CalBear949 on Jan 23, 2012 11:38 AM PST via mobile reply actions
Isn't it?
What ya in town for? Need any dining tips?
Andre Ethier: Gross-o-Matic 5000
-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler
Mediation
Dining tip would be great
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
by CalBear949 on Jan 23, 2012 11:43 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
And are you at the Matsui courthouse or what?
Andre Ethier: Gross-o-Matic 5000
-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler
new tram is cool
Almost got my arm taken off though
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
by CalBear949 on Jan 23, 2012 11:41 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
lolololol
SamMillerOCR Sam Miller
@
@mccoveychron u r 5
Carter Jurica!
"Has anyone really been for even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?"
by GrahamCrakalaka on Jan 23, 2012 11:41 AM PST reply actions
lol owned!
Proud adoptive father of the fastest guy in the Giants system, Jarrett Parker
One of the best moments in Giants history, 11/1/2010
Just buy out Tim's arb years
Either he continues to be a 4+ WARA pitcher and leaves after 2013 or his performance declines and you can offer a shorter contract for far less money after 2013. I am completely fine with Tim willing to take on all of the risk over the next couple of seasons.
I, like most, develop emotional attachments to really good baseball players on my team, but it has to be a two-way street. Matt took a team friendly contract already and now wants to get paid. That is completely undertsandable. Tim has never even considered this and I am fine with that as well, but it also makes it easier for me to let some other team pay market rate for Tim. I’d rather use that money on a player who is invloved more than 33 times a season.
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
Azmanz Bet: 1st HoF: Clemens > Bonds
by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 23, 2012 11:53 AM PST reply actions
I agree!
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
by CalBear949 on Jan 23, 2012 11:55 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
I agree!
"They'll put a man on the moon before I hit a home run." ~ Gaylord Perry
by calgiants86 on Jan 23, 2012 12:02 PM PST up reply actions
I think my head just exploded.
The first six innings are overrated.
Yea
If you are willing to pay full market, why not take 1-2 years to see how comfy that sounds.
Blerg
by Myemail21479 on Jan 23, 2012 12:01 PM PST up reply actions
I don’t even see the need to buy out his 2013 season. Are we worried he’s going to get a $30 million contract through arbitration next year? Why risk guaranteeing what sounds like 20-25 million dollars.
Giants Baseball: Hope like hell™
Proud father of the man in charge of taking your hard-earned cash.
Owners don't want to set arbitration benchmarks
if you sign a deal, you’re not going to arbitration. you just… signed a deal.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
Kudos, You are a sick, sick man, but you are very good at it -- wcw
I asked Schulman if the Giants were even involved in Scutaro talks
hankschulman Henry Schulman
@LoganDobson I never heard that, but since the Sox made it clear they wanted to clear his 6 mil, I doubt it.
San Francisco Giants: Unwilling to pay 6 million dollars for a substantial upgrade at shortstop.
The most delightful ecumenical contradiction in nomenclature.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
BUT THAT'S TEJADA MONEY
AND THINK OF ALL THE POOR STARVING LOOGYS
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
Are you even surprised at this point?
"They'll put a man on the moon before I hit a home run." ~ Gaylord Perry
by calgiants86 on Jan 23, 2012 12:12 PM PST up reply actions
Your real name isn't GiantPain? I'm shocked and appalled, good sir.
"I don’t know, just chuck it as hard as you can".-Buster Posey, on how to gun down stolen base attempts
by LincecumFTK on Jan 23, 2012 12:20 PM PST up reply actions
East coast bias?!!!!!!
darrenrovell darren rovell
57.6 million people watched Giants-49ers. 48.7 million people watched Pats-Ravens. Remarkable numbers.
Proud adoptive father of the fastest guy in the Giants system, Jarrett Parker
One of the best moments in Giants history, 11/1/2010
Game with the New York team will always have the highest ratings
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
OT Work
Don’t you love it when you craft a painstakingly meticulous solution to a given problem and then have the client in question flip out because they have no basic understanding of the system and in so doing sabotage their case? And isn’t it even better that this problem came about because a government employee made a stupid mistake that they don’t want to admit and so are making you do pointless work in order to solve the non problem? I love it when all of this happens!
Andre Ethier: Gross-o-Matic 5000
-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler
That never happens. Clients are always sane and well educated about the process. And if they wouldn’t admit they did something wrong, it’s probably not important. And even if it was important, well, the client probably assumes that you can figure it out and fix it. After all, that’s what he/she is paying all this money for, what are you doing just sitting around thinking anyway, do something.
I did! I solved the problem!
JUST SIGN THE BLOODY DOCUMENT!!!
Andre Ethier: Gross-o-Matic 5000
-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler
Gee guys, barely 600 comments by noon? I am disappoint!
Adopted Giant: Eddie I Have It Grant.
TSFGWTWS DESPITE Botchy, not BECAUSE of him.
You're still mad that jponry denied us our shot at 3000 last night.
11 01 10
Veni Vidi Vixi
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Jan 23, 2012 12:22 PM PST up reply actions
Lol, well it’s only what? 40 comments shy of 3000? If I cared that much I’d go sosillyquy all over the thread!
Adopted Giant: Eddie I Have It Grant.
TSFGWTWS DESPITE Botchy, not BECAUSE of him.
I considered that too, but spamming for numbers didn't feel right.
Mr. 3000 taught me to let go of such things.
11 01 10
Veni Vidi Vixi
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Jan 23, 2012 12:45 PM PST up reply actions
My thoughts on Tim/Matt
I really want a deal for Matt because it’ll ensure we have them both for two more years. I also agree with Lars above about Tim. Let him play out the next two years and let’s see wher we are with the roster, his performance and where the payroll is.
Also:
Baseball people believe Cain might be able to match Cliff Lee’s $120-million as a free agent if he tested the market after the year, but word is that he badly wants to stay in San Francisco.
This sounds like it might be bad news for the “pessimists” who like to say Cain desperately wants out of S.F.
Bold Prediction: Pablo Sandoval finishes 1st or 2nd in 2012 NL MVP voting. I'm Twittering now (well maybe not literally now): @GoofusMcP
Who says that?
I think people mostly make jokes because of Cain’s run support.
I feel like most people make those comments more about Lincecum
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
I've seen it said about Cain
Bold Prediction: Pablo Sandoval finishes 1st or 2nd in 2012 NL MVP voting. I'm Twittering now (well maybe not literally now): @GoofusMcP
All pitchers are exactly alike and value the same things, duh!
This people stuff is bogus, man.
2012 is going to be awesome!
I don't think they are jokes.
"I see these guys walking around with rings on, and I want one. That's what it's all about." -Ryan Vogelsong
If they are, they’re not funny.
Giants Baseball: Hope like hell™
Proud father of the man in charge of taking your hard-earned cash.
About him wanting to leave that is. No run support is funny because it’s true.
Giants Baseball: Hope like hell™
Proud father of the man in charge of taking your hard-earned cash.
Right.
I think when people say that Cain wants out so he can be a “winner,” I don’t usually pick-up on any humor suggest that it’s anything other than quite serious armchair psychology.
"I see these guys walking around with rings on, and I want one. That's what it's all about." -Ryan Vogelsong
Cain has had that issue for years
Tim had even for the Giants, bad run support last year.
I don’t think any pitcher likes giving up 2 runs and the team losing than giving up 3 runs and the team winning.
Blerg
by Myemail21479 on Jan 23, 2012 12:36 PM PST up reply actions
Lets sign this guy. Click the link to find out who it is. CHAMPAGNE ROOM.
LINK: http://twitpic.com/8aiuce
"Baseball is a red-blooded sport for red-blooded men. It's no pink tea, and mollycoddles had better stay out." -Ty Cobb
Mayor of Smug.
That's kind of awesome, actually.
"I see these guys walking around with rings on, and I want one. That's what it's all about." -Ryan Vogelsong
From Deadspin
Why We Scapegoat
Because Billy Cundiff exists, Ravens fans don’t have to come to terms with the fact that one of the best rushing teams ceded the turf to one of the worst. Or that they could only turn three New England turnovers into six points. Or that their offensive line turned to soggy swiss cheese at the merest whiff of Vince Wilfork.
Because Kyle Williams exists, 49ers fans don’t have to grasp that their offense went 1-for-13 on third down, the one being a pointless hail mary at the end of regulation. Or that they all but gave up after halftime on what had been an effective run game. Or that the vaunted San Francisco D didn’t force a single turnover, and had no answer for Victor Cruz.
11 01 10
Veni Vidi Vixi
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Jan 23, 2012 12:37 PM PST reply actions
Counterpoint
To some extent, it’s “fairer” to scapegoat Kyle Williams for the 49ers’ loss to the Giants in overtime on Sunday. New York’s chances of winning leaped from just 22 percent to 46 percent after Williams’ muffed punt handed them the ball, and hopped from 52 percent to 85 percent when Williams fumbled the ball away a second time in overtime. Those are pretty enormous swings, and while Williams did contribute a 40-yard kickoff return in the fourth quarter that set up the game-tying Niners field goal, he caught just one of the five passes thrown to him. If he didn’t cost San Francisco the game on his own, he was a huge part of the equation.
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
Yeah, I'm with you. Sometimes it really is just the one guy.
I’d originally critiqued a bunch of the claims in the second paragraph I quoted, but decided to just post it without comment. The whole thing’s pretty good, and not very long; I just didn’t want to post the whole thing.
11 01 10
Veni Vidi Vixi
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Jan 23, 2012 12:43 PM PST up reply actions
Well, they did have a pretty damned good answer for Victor Cruz in the second half and were able to make enough adjustments to put great pressure on Eli the Great.
by Every6thDay on Jan 23, 2012 12:39 PM PST up reply actions
Ya’all know there’s a new thread, right?
http://www.mccoveychronicles.com/2012/1/23/2728010/matt-cain-contract-prediction-thread
Adopted Giant: Eddie I Have It Grant.
TSFGWTWS DESPITE Botchy, not BECAUSE of him.
Shift_A
Just getting this devilish thread off of 666 posts. Get thee behind me, Grant!
Giants baseball: So hollow, so empty.
"You don't go out with the pressure that you've gotta be perfect. It's more, 'I know I'm capable of throwing a shutout, so I should probably strive for that every time I go out. And if I don't, then I bite myself in the ass, not everybody else.' "--Tim Lincecum discussing how he deals with the shitty Giants offense.
127 million and one penny/7 years
Cause he’s worth more than Zito
My two favorite teams are the Giants, and whomever is playing the Dodgers!
by World Series or Bust on Jan 23, 2012 5:59 PM PST reply actions
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