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SF Giants' Contract Crisis

For the San Francisco Giants, last year was one to forget. A slow death all season, 2011 was in fact the antithesis of 2010’s magic and perseverance. The clock struck twelve for Cinderella as we bid farewell to unlikely heroes Andres Torres and Cody Ross.

The World Series hangover has passed. The injuries have drifted away. Buster and Freddy should be ready to bounce back. And the Giants actually have a lot to prove this year. San Francisco is transforming from a mid-market team into a large market franchise. The Giants have enjoyed many seasons of watching their young studs spin gems for pennies on the dollar. That time has come and gone.

And so, General Manager Brian Sabean has made it very clear that the Giants’ main objective this offseason is to extend starting pitchers Tim Lincecum (1A) and Matt Cain (1B). The Freak is eligible to become a free agent after the 2013 season while Cain is eligible to test the market after the 2012 season. Can you imagine the Giants without their two horses? It’s a scary thought to envision them in pinstripes.

Star-divide

Here’s where we stand.

Timmy’s arbitration case is likely to set an MLB record. After making $14 million in arbitration last year, Lincecum is probably going to see a figure in the neighborhood of $19 million for 2012 and perhaps $25 million in 2013. Cain draws $15 million in 2012 but again, will become a free agent after that. And it’s all quiet on the Western Front.

Here’s the problem.

  • 33 year-old Cliff Lee is on his 2nd year of his massive 5-year $120 million contract from the Phillies.
  • CJ Wilson got 5 years $77.5 million from the Angels (which was actually a hometown discount).
  • Mark Buehrle just signed a 4-year $58 million deal and he’ll be 33 by Opening Day!
  • CC Sabathia? Back in October he signed a $25 million vesting option adding onto his original 7-year $161 million contract from George Steinbrenner in 2008.

Every time a big name starting pitcher gets a big-ticket contract, the market value of Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain continue to increase. They’re both 27 years of age and on the precipice of their prime. More importantly, both are proven big game pitchers and remarkably durable.

It’s pitchers like Lincecum and Cain that teams love to vulture on. Outside of Seattle’s Felix Hernandez, I can’t think of two better bargain-priced aces. There is simply too much money out there for the Giants not to take signing these two very seriously.

Here’s the solution.

The Giants absolutely must open up the checkbook for these two guys, this much we know. But the way to go about this is to let Timmy file for arbitration this year and in turn, focus all efforts on extending Matt Cain long-term. If Cain walks, then Timmy is more likely to follow suit.

So I say to the Giants brass, sign him up! Matt Cain for 6 years, $100ish million. Averaging nearly 212 innings pitched every year since 2006, he’s earned it. That way, you have your ace as insurance even if Lincecum leaves after 2013. No payroll flexibility? Aaron Rowand’s contract expires after this season, as does Aubrey Huff’s. That’s $23 million off the books right there. And how are you going to justify paying Barry Zito $19 million in 2012, $20 million in 2013 and a $7 million buyout on an $18 million club option in 2014. Answer: you can’t. Pay Cain.

Once Cain’s finances are taken care of, the Giants’ front office can turn their attention towards their long-haired sensation. Act 2 of this complicated contract crisis is even more important/delicate. I shouldn’t even have to explain how imperative it is for the Giants to resign Tim Lincecum. He transcends baseball. He is a San Francisco icon.

Still clamoring for that impact bat? Well, we tried. And now all we have to show for is a bunch of Carlos Beltran jerseys selling for 50% off. Let’s just hope Zack Wheeler doesn’t turn into Joe Nathan. But beat writer Andrew Baggarley is right: “If [Lincecum] loses three more 1-0 decisions to Clayton Kershaw, that frustration could influence whether he wants to stay. When you bang your head against a wall enough times, you get a headache. That’s just how the world works.” If you can’t supply any run support, then pay them their due. Victim’s of some of the worst run support ever seen, Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain have kept their chins up and their mouths shut for too long for the Giants front office not to offer them big contracts.

What do you all think?

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

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I think...

the fact that Cain and Lincy have kept their mouths shut in dealing with the run-support issue, and haven’t lambasted brass in the media, points to the fact that these guys are valuable BEYOND their talent level. In a “me-first” culture, with athletes spouting selfishness all the time, these two kids (and Bummy) at the tops of their games stay humble, respectful, and PUBLIC-attitude free.

The two (three) are winners in every way. They are solid performers, public icons, and all around good people.

If either of these guys is in another teams uniform before the age of 35, it will prove the ineptitude of the F.O.

Lock em up.

COMIN' ATCHA, FROM ANCHORAGE, ALASKA!

Fathaigh go mbuaimid!

Proud adoptive Father of Joe Panik. 2011 NWL MVP .

Job 1:14-15

by bigboneded on Jan 12, 2012 3:29 PM PST reply actions  

Agreed.

I would even argue that Lincecum’s “perceived” market value would be more of an impetus to move him instead of Cain, not to mention his marketability. One thing is for sure, the Giants cannot sit on their hands. A decision must be made.

http://candlestickconscience.com
Follow me @OGBaySean

by BaySean on Jan 12, 2012 3:36 PM PST up reply actions  

SF Giants' Contract Crisis

I just think it is next to impossible for the Giants to get both Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain signed long term. The Giants are still stuck with Zito for the next two years at 19 and 20 mill. So if you look at 2013 your going to have three players, Zito, Cain and Lincecum taking up close to 60MILL. I simply don’t see how they can spend almost half the budget on three starting pitchers. Maybe they are able to do something with Zito in buying out the final three year, but I doubt it. The 2013 20MILL owed to Zito is just going to kill the Giants in getting both Cain and Lincecum signed. I think everyone is underestimating what Cain can get as a free agent also. I think some team will offer Cain something very much like Cliff Lee.

by Giants-Just-Win on Jan 12, 2012 3:31 PM PST reply actions  

Unless Lincecum is traded or signs a serious below-market extension

They’re going to be paying him >$20M pretty much no matter what through arbitration. So you’ve got $40M on those two guys. Bumgarner is projected to hit arb in 2014. Vogelsong is signed for $5M in 2013; he’ll almost certainly be taking a rotation spot. Not sure what’s going to happen with Surkamp, but he could replace Cain if Cain is allowed to walk or traded.

The rotation will then cost about $45M for the front four (Lincecum, Bumgarner, Vogelsong, Zito). Let’s leave the fifth spot open to see if we can afford Cain or need to use Surkamp.

The bullpen, then. Wilson will likely make around $10M in his final year through arb, Romo could be up to $5M in his second trip through, Lopez is signed for $4M, and we’ll assume that Hembree and Runzler are ready for the minimum, Casilla and Mota are retained (calling it $5M for both, with Casilla taking the majority in his final arb trip), and Affeldt walks. That’s seven pitchers for about $20M – five righties and two lefties, one long man, a pretty traditional bullpen construction. Not sure who will close, but that doesn’t matter so much. So $65M for nearly all of the pitching staff.

Onto the offense. Sandoval will be in his second arb year – working off a $5M or so base in 2012, with a good year he could get maybe $9M. Posey is projected to hit arb for the first time in 2013 as well – coming off a major injury in 2011, unless he goes absolutely nuts I don’t see more than $4M – his ROY won’t be enough to mitigate the injury in 2011, but that’s still a pretty big first-time award. Huff is gone, Belt in first, with a $2M buyout for Huff. I really don’t see Sanchez coming back, and with Panik probably not ready, Fontenot may be installed as the everyday 2B, and will cost around $1.5M. Can’t count Charlie Culberson out though – with a strong year in Fresno he may be given the job. Crawford will almost certainly be the everyday SS for the minimum. Infield costs $17.5M. Pagan and Cabrera both project as free agents after 2012 – it’s possible one gets an extension, but not that probable. More likely, Brown or Peguero is handed the CF position and Schierholtz gets a shot at RF (if he isn’t getting one now). LF is a bit trickier – there’s no clear candidate unless Brown AND Peguero are starters. What I find more likely is Pill getting the 1B job and Belt moving to LF. But that’s not obvious either. Let’s leave LF open for now and see where that leads, installing a farm product in CF and Nate in right for $2M; if he’s given a starting job this year and does well, he could earn more, but a bench role would earn him less. That means the 7/8 of the starting offense requires about $20M in commitments. So far we’ve committed $85M.

Still have to fill out the bench. Burriss will likely get a spot, along with maybe Gillaspie or Dominguez. Fontenot could take a role if he is pushed out of a starting job, and the same holds true for Nate. Finding another utility OF shouldn’t be too difficult or expensive – Tyler Graham and Justin Christian look like obvious candidates but will have to at least be interesting in 2012. Still, the bench in total shouldn’t cost more than $5M for five players. Let’s be extra generous and call it $8M.

$93M in commitments now, with SP, LF, and possibly 2B open. Call it $20M for Cain, and you’re up to $113M of a presumably static $130M budget. $17M to find a starting LF and maybe 2B should not be difficult – no one is saying those positions have to be filled by world-beaters, and one may be filled internally leaving lots of cash open for the other. Or you can just call that a cushion on underestimating arb awards or extension money. Of course, if Wilson or Zito are traded (not ridiculous on the former, and we’d have to kick in some cash for the latter but with a mediocre season someone would pay a bit) we’d free up more space, and their production could likely be replaced.

Unless I’m vastly underestimating some awards, and I don’t think I am, we should be able to pay Cain $20M. Just looking at three players with $20M salaries taking up half the budget looks bad, but that’s before you realize how cheap the rest of the team is. Posey, Sandoval, Belt, and Bumgarner will all be relatively inexpensive for the next several years at least, and they’re providing a lot of value right now. That money could get eaten up quick if Sabean continues the “let’s pay left-handed relievers $5M a season” strategy, but there is clearly a way to keep Cain and not go over-budget – in fact, it seems he fits into the budget quite nicely.

Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)

by quincy0191 on Jan 12, 2012 6:06 PM PST up reply actions  

dear god

Carter Jurica!
"Has anyone really been for even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?"

by GrahamCrakalaka on Jan 12, 2012 6:43 PM PST up reply actions  

I think you missed a handful of 3/$39 deals for Jamey Carroll and Willie Bloomquist and Melky Cabrera. Also, they’re probably not going to go to arb with Pablo or Posey so god knows what they might give out to either. More seriously, I think there’s a decent chance that Bumgarner could be arb eligible after the 2012 season, because they bumped up the Super 2’s significantly in this CBA.

I have to say, the thing I came away from this post thinking was: $133mil roster and we have Brett Pill for a 1B?!

by Roger on Jan 13, 2012 5:51 AM PST up reply actions  

I don't see $133M and Pill at 1B

And this was just looking at “what do we have that might prevent a Cain extension?” As of right now, that list does not appear substantial enough to say that we can’t afford to keep Cain and Timmy.

I got up to $113M including Cain and needing only a LF and a 2B, where Belt is at first and Pill isn’t a consideration $17M for two spots, considering possible breakthroughs for Culberson, Brown, Peguero, Parker, and even Panik, is not insubstantial at all. The only way Pill is the 1B on a $113M roster for 2013 is if we spend $20M on a 2B and/or we have to pay a lot more through arb than we though. Bumgarner could be part of that (right now he’s not projected to reach arb until 2014 so that’s what I went with) but he won’t likely get much more than $5M. Avoiding arb with Sandoval/Posey would save us money as we guarantee a longer contract. Keeping Cabrera would fill the LF hole, so that’s nearly a complete team, and there’s no way he’d get that much.

Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)

by quincy0191 on Jan 13, 2012 3:58 PM PST up reply actions  

Ah yeah, I thought it was $113 + 20 for Cain. Anyway, I was probably so shocked by this:

What I find more likely is Pill getting the 1B job

that my comprehension skills were destroyed for the rest of the post.

by Roger on Jan 14, 2012 1:20 PM PST up reply actions  

I meant I think Pill getting the 1B job and putting Belt in LF is more likely than Brown AND Peguero taking starting outfield jobs (which would allow Belt to stay at 1B and push Pill off the roster) for significant portions of the 2013 season, if not the entire season. I think that’s reasonable, particularly given the FO, even if it’s probably not what I would do.

The LF hole is one that’s going to have to be addressed through trade or free agency – we really don’t have the corner OF bat we need coming up through the system. Everyone’s a strong defensive outfielder with questions about the bat. So, to recap, in order or highest to lowest probability:

1. Acquire a LF
2. Belt LF, Pill 1B
3. Brown CF, Peguero/Schierholtz LF/RF, Belt 1B

That seems about right to me, with a pretty significant gap between 1 and 2 and a smaller but still sizable gap between 2 and 3.

Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)

by quincy0191 on Jan 14, 2012 3:18 PM PST up reply actions  

Cain will get more than the 100 million you suggest.

Lincecum will get more than that still.

Let them be someone else’s problem.

by GiantPain on Jan 12, 2012 4:03 PM PST reply actions  

You heartless green-blooded bastard.

"If it's weird, you know it's probably Wilson's." - Matt Cain

by EliminateMe on Jan 12, 2012 5:46 PM PST up reply actions  

Contracts

I don’t think you can even attempt to trade Zito, so were suck with him for the last two years, (I am assuming they are giving him the 7MILL buyout). Even with a mediocre season by Zito this year and we kick in some money no GM in his right mind would want Zito, Also I don’t think Zito wants to go anywere. He just strikes me as a guy that wants to stay in the bayarea. I don’t think he ever waives his no trade, even to go to LA or someplace.

I also think you are overestimating the value of Belt. We don’t even know if he can hold down a full time position yet. Also Pill getting the 1B job I just don’t see, unless he is the next Will Clark. Mind you the may be forced to give him the job due to spending all the money on pitching. I just don’t see the Giants going with a bunch of young guys in 2013. The Giants just don’t hand starting jobs to youger players without them being bounced around a little bit first. Unless they change the way the look at younger position players.

I think they have to free up some money somehow in order to get both pitchers signed.

by Giants-Just-Win on Jan 12, 2012 6:51 PM PST reply actions  

Plenty of people said the same about Carlos Silva, among others

Silva was in fact much worse than Zito and he still ended up getting moved. I’m not saying we’ll get something of value, or even save much money, but it’s not ludicrous to think a team might take a $2M chance on him being a productive #5 pitcher. Nor do I think Zito wants to buy himself any more animosity by vetoing a trade.

We don’t know if Belt can hold down a full-time position, but we ought to give him the opportunity. How will we know if we don’t let him try? We didn’t know if Posey could hold down a full-time position, or Sandoval, or Lincecum, etc. until they did because we gave them a shot. I don’t see how the Giants can realistically keep him on the bench or in AAA with his general reputation as a top prospect, his great (albeit short) time in the minors, no incumbent 1B/LF, a serious need for offense, and no money. Though I suppose I shouldn’t underestimate their willingness to crap on young players.

Pill was more of a longshot – I don’t think he’s good enough to start, but it’s not completely out of the question that he could hold down the 1B job for a year or two and let us save some money by not signing a FA LF and putting Belt there. In any case, I did not assume he was part of the equation and left LF open because there is no good candidate now.

If the Giants don’t extend Cain it’s very possible they get a FA bat – in fact, I’m pretty sure it will happen. There’s just too much money and talent to not grab a win-now player and make another run without Cain in 2013 – the pieces will still be there and they’ll have a bunch of money to spread around. But if they see guys like Brown and Panik as near-future starters, with a couple other interesting pieces that have the potential, why would they lose a major piece in Cain and spend that money on either another SP they’re less familiar with, or a position player that could block a prospect? The only reason I see to do that is if they don’t believe in Cain long-term (in which case they just shouldn’t extend him period) or they don’t think the farm will produce offensive talent and want to re-allocate money toward a bat. But it seems possible to do that while retaining Cain, and even if it’s not, that’s likely just trading pitching wins for hitting wins, with no real gain. They’re going to have money to spend soon, and they’re going to spend it; I’d rather spend it on one of our own players instead of someone else’s, and not just for sentimental reasons: Cain is a great player, and we know him better than anyone else.

Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)

by quincy0191 on Jan 12, 2012 7:02 PM PST up reply actions  

Contracts

I just think it’s next to impossible to trade Zito, maybe if he only had one year left it would be somewhat possible. Zito was so insistant on the no trade in his contract. I just don’t think he is going to waive it regardless of any animosity. I just don’t think he is going to pack his bags for New York, or Boston, or any east cost team that might be able to afford him.

I think it generaly comes down to if the Giants are going to let the young position players like Belt stick at a position and not go crazy the minute he starts to have problems. If they don’t want to trade Lincecum or Cain, they need to free up some money someplace. I do see Wilson as maybe the guy they give up. I think they can come up with a cheaper closer then Wilson. 9MILL + for a closer on a tight budget. I really just don’t see how they are going fit everyone in. That Zito contract is still going to come back and bight us in the a^%.

by Giants-Just-Win on Jan 12, 2012 8:06 PM PST reply actions  

In 2013

He will have one year left (plus the buyout). I was looking at the 2013 budget, so that boosted the possibility of a trade. Zito may have been insistent on a no-trade clause six years ago, but now? Now I think he wants to go somewhere he won’t be a center of attention, and with his contract that’s impossible in SF. Six years ago he probably thought he wouldn’t be considered one of the worst contracts in baseball from the moment he started his deal. Things have changed.

The Giants can either give kids time to succeed (regardless of whether they do so immediately or ever) or they can stop contending very soon. No way they can support a payroll of the size they’d need to play only guys who have had significant MLB success. I think they know that, despite some of the actions they’ve taken.

Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)

by quincy0191 on Jan 12, 2012 9:29 PM PST up reply actions  

Zito

I was thinking this year, so yeah maybe trading him in 2012 could work, but I just don’t see the guy going anywere. I don’t see him jumping up and down to go to New York or Boston, or any east coast teams that could afford him. I might think Texas might, might be interested if they are in the playoff hunt. I think someone is going to really be desperate to want the guy. I am not saying it’s impossible, just very, very, very doubtfull.

Maybe the Giants will change the way the handle the younger position players, but I just don’t see it yet.

The Giants just need to improve significantly in scoring runs, and I don’t see how they do that with the way the money is being spent. I am just very tired of watching 1-0 and 2-1 type games. If they are going to spend 60 Mill on three guys fine, but give me a lineup that can drive in some runs also.

by Giants-Just-Win on Jan 13, 2012 1:33 AM PST reply actions  

They're winning a lot of those games too

Re-allocating money toward the offense wouldn’t result in more wins, just higher-scoring games all around. Cain’s career low in fWAR is 3.3, which translates to about $15M a year. TBH if he’s extended I don’t think he’ll get $20M a year, but it’ll be close, and I think that’s the best way to spend that money. He’s never not been good and more than once been fantastic. The 2013 FA list isn’t bad, but Brandon Phillips and Stephen Drew are the only guys I’d say could be better than Cain, and Phillips will be 32 and neither of them is guaranteed to actually hit free agency.

Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)

by quincy0191 on Jan 13, 2012 4:07 PM PST up reply actions  

They are winning games, but not enough

Ok by realllocating money for a better lineup, I am not talking about a couple small stop gap piss ant little bats. I am talking about instead of giving Lincecum the 25 Mill a year, we trade Lincecum for a top cheap bat, say a younger version of Ryan Howard type. So now you have a power bat to go along with Posey, and you have 25MILL to spend. You go out and find another bat maybe a Hanley Ramirez. So now you have a young Posey that can hit, a bat you have signed, and a bat you have traded for, all for trading Lincecum. On top of that you still have a decent starting 3. You go out and find a number 4 type starting pitcher, and I think you have a better overall team.

Mind you a couple things first. 1 You have get Cain signed long term. 2. You have to get a can’t miss bat in a trade. So yeah a few things would have to fall in place, but that is more of the idea I would have in mind.

by Giants-Just-Win on Jan 13, 2012 10:56 PM PST reply actions  

Question

How is competing into September the antithesis of a World Series title?

Look up the 1997/1998 Marlins.

A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way. - SLC

by mhad on Jan 16, 2012 3:48 PM PST reply actions  

Because...

2010 we chased the Padre all year. 2011, we were in 1st place, then lost it to the Diamondbacks, then faded… Total opposite…

http://candlestickconscience.com
Follow me @OGBaySean

by BaySean on Jan 17, 2012 1:52 PM PST up reply actions  

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