Jimmy Rollins is interested in coming home
by grabsumpinemeat on Sep 23, 2011 12:41 PM PDT
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A shortstop and leadoff man in one package.
There is a story out that C.C. Sabathia who is a friend of Jimmy Rollins talked to Rollins about coming home to SF to play for the Giants. Word is he is interested and Rollins who is a free agent might be sending out some good vibes toward the Bay Area to stir the pot and maybe get a offer durring the off season.
I like Rollins and though he has had some injuries he might be a good add to the Giants lineup. The question is what is his price and would the Giants be willing to get close to it. Rollins is hitting around .265 this year with 14 jacks.
If you look at the Giants lineup the lead off spot is a priority to fill and Rollins is a leader who might be the answer to get the Giants going. Torres was huge in the Giants winning in 2010 at the top and Rollins has the experience to get the job done. The question is how much money will it take and will his body hold up. Stay tuned to this story.
Go Giants !!
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I’d be interested, though only if it wasn’t our only move of the offseason.
So, no, Jimmy Rollins is not actually interested in coming home
CC Sabathia just thinks that he might be. And you turned this into a mostly meaningless 5 “paragraphs”.
Gigante. Campeón. Pumpkin. Andrés Torres.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
He's really good! He's an injury risk! But he's really good! But he'll be expensive! But he's really good! But he's an injury risk!
We can use the Maddux Money
Now that Neukom isn’t putting it all into silliness like “advertising” and “player development”
These are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others. -Groucho Marx
He’s a leader with the experience to get the job done.
Once more, coming to you by proxy.
by howtheyscored on Sep 23, 2011 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Please don’t feed Sabeans fetish.
I'm a Giants Fan, but I'll always be rooting for Matt Downs
Adopted Son:Dan Burkhart , Future Backup To Buster Posey.
I was just quoting the OP.
Once more, coming to you by proxy.
by howtheyscored on Sep 25, 2011 9:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Jimmy Rollins' To-Do List
1. Make money
2. Get paid
3. Milk & eggs
Choppin' broccoli
by SimpleJaquez on Sep 24, 2011 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions
Jimmy Rollins is interested in substantial contract.
And this is the problem.
I'm a Giants Fan, but I'll always be rooting for Matt Downs
Adopted Son:Dan Burkhart , Future Backup To Buster Posey.
Jimmy Rollins is interested in substantial contract.
As opposed to whom that isn’t?
"The knowledge of the game is inversely proportional to the price of the seat." ---Bill Veeck. •Read My Blarrrgh...er, um....Comic. That doesn't really come across so well when said sarcastically. The Lunatic Fringe•
by BruteSentiment on Sep 25, 2011 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Gil Meche!
Carter Jurica!
"Has anyone really been for even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?"
by GrahamCrakalaka on Sep 25, 2011 5:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Graham's got you there Brute..
I'm a Giants Fan, but I'll always be rooting for Matt Downs
Adopted Son:Dan Burkhart , Future Backup To Buster Posey.
Rainy Day Fund
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 23, 2011 1:03 PM PDT reply actions
Rainy Day Woman
Where have you gone, Steven Revetria? A bandwagon turns its lonely eyes to you.
"118 elements, and still no stanfurdium"- carp, paraphrased
"That one's on me."- Madison Bumgarner
by natteringnabob on Sep 24, 2011 9:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Famous Blue Raincoat
I'm a Giants Fan, but I'll always be rooting for Matt Downs
Adopted Son:Dan Burkhart , Future Backup To Buster Posey.
Leopard-Skin Pill-Box Hat
For the thirteen time in 3 or one evers, I found myself toothlessly thinking about Manny Ramirez.
IMO
Jimmy Rollins is the only upper-echelon FA that we have a shot at signing this offseason. And, due to his advanced age and recent injury tendencies, he’s barely in the upper-echelon.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
And, due to his advanced age and recent injury tendencies,
…he’s the perfect fit for Brian Sabean.
COMIN' ATCHA, FROM ANCHORAGE, ALASKA!
Fathaigh go mbuaimid!
Proud adoptive Father of Joe Panik. 2011 NWL MVP .
Job 1:14-15
Advanced means good!
Once more, coming to you by proxy.
by howtheyscored on Sep 23, 2011 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Err… expensive Ray Durham
at the end of the day it's all about kicking the tires
by duke_diligence on Sep 23, 2011 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions
You may not be giving Ray Durham enough credit. Well, at least with the bat.
Once more, coming to you by proxy.
by howtheyscored on Sep 23, 2011 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions
was really good?
Gigante. Campeón. Pumpkin. Andrés Torres.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
He's really good! He's an injury risk! But he's really good! But he'll be expensive! But he's really good! But he's an injury risk!
Sugar Man!
Giant Dirtbags: :(
Jeremy Affeldt is terrible.
by Giant among Angels on Sep 24, 2011 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions
He would sign for less to play across the Bay in white shoes.
He’s never said anything remotely nice about the Giants, and I’m prepared to crawl inside of a bottle of booze when Sabes grossly overpays for him.
Where have you gone John Johnstone?
by glenallen hill's waterpipe on Sep 23, 2011 3:45 PM PDT reply actions
Why do I have a feeling Rollins will eventually be the Giants starting shortstop
Sabean loves aging shortstops.
Do not want
Although I know he’s coming.
Buster Posey: still better than Eli and Stewart, even with a broken ankle.
For those who are against this...
What are your suggestions at shortstop? The other ‘upper echelon’ shortstop free agent is even more injury prone.
Otherwise, the list is (according to Cot’s):
Ronny Cedeno PIT
Adam Everett CLE
Rafael Furcal LAD
Alex Gonzalez ATL
Cesar Izturis BAL
John McDonald TOR
Augie Ojeda ARI
Jose Reyes NYM
Nick Punto STL
Edgar Renteria CIN
Jimmy Rollins PHI
Ramon Santiago DET
Jack Wilson SEA
(Note that not even Cot’s thinks that Orlando Cabrera qualifies as a shortstop)
Or, of course, you could rely on the in-house options, like Brandon Crawford. Or wait for Ehire Adrianza. But frankly, neither are ready now, nor have either really shown any long-term potential to me.
I’m for the Rollins signing, partially because the lack of other options right now are a little disgusting, and until Panik comes up (which will be a couple of years at least), the Giants have no in-house options to be blocked.
"The knowledge of the game is inversely proportional to the price of the seat." ---Bill Veeck. •Read My Blarrrgh...er, um....Comic. That doesn't really come across so well when said sarcastically. The Lunatic Fringe•
Ray Durham 2
Electric Bugaloo
Rollins for a 1 year isn’t terrible, he’ll get 3 easy. Run away. Power numbers will go way down away from Philly, ie single digit dongs. His range (excellent now) will go down. And he’ll miss 1/3 of the season easy. He’s gonna get 3/33-36. Hopefully Amaro wants him to be on the Phils for life, takes this choice away.
Jose Reyes is protecting his hammy’s – not running at all. Huge red flag.
Don’t get me started about Furcal, he is the worst of the bunch.
Ray Durham was an excellent player for the Giants. That would be a great result to have.
Once more, coming to you by proxy.
by howtheyscored on Sep 24, 2011 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Ray Durham had only one bad season for the Giants
It was a terrible, crappy, cover-your-eyes sort of season but it was clearly an abberation.
Don't think he can cut it in the bigs? Brock Bond will be the bigger man and walk walk walk away.
Durham was a good Giant. His hammy injuries and that sketchy D aside, I liked him. I think everybody can agree that Jeff Kent instead of Durham/Alfonso would have been a better call. And yes, washing trucks and in dugout fights were the issues of the day. Sabean should have tried everything in his power to get those things smoothed out.
On paper, letting Kent walk and bringing in those two to replace him may have been the best series of decisions Sabean has ever made as GM. If they’d lived up their established levels of production and health, they’d have exceeded Kent’s previous production while making the team significantly younger. Unfortunately, they didn’t.
Sometimes good process begets bad results, it happens.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
We love arguing over past players here!
Don't think he can cut it in the bigs? Brock Bond will be the bigger man and walk walk walk away.
On paper and on the field Jeff Kent was seriously awesome. Power at a weak position, fielded his position like a professional (not much range but got what he got and was smart), and he’s a red-ass. You need a red-ass on the team. The lesson learned is you should always take the best player and not split your resources.
Alsonso was a failure in advanced scouting. His conditioning fell off a cliff, and his skills regressed. His was one of the first Sabean overbids in years and dollars to “get er done”. So you look at Alfonso’s stats and you say “hell yeah” but you weren’t getting the guy who played on the 2000 Mets.
And now that we’re on the subject, the baller move was of course to re-sign Kent, and then get Mr. Vlad. Instead we got Durham/Alfonso (slightly defensible) and… too many crappy players to list. The killer is that the money for Kent/Vlad wasn’t that much more spent. Ah, sweet ancient history.
I disagree
The lesson learned is you should always take the best player and not split your resources
You have to weigh relative cost unless you’re the Yankees.
The thong is, it happened.
They didn't need the 2000 version of Alfonzo, the 2002 version was quite good.
I don’t see how an advanced scout is going to look at 2002 Alfonzo and predict 2003+ Alfonzo. Scouts aren’t magicians.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
you could tell pretty easily by just watching him in person that he was not the same player.
the injuries to his back sapped most of his power.
Adoptive father of 18th round draft pick and future ace, BRANDON ALLEN
by Nnamdi Asomugha on Sep 26, 2011 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions
To clarify my position, I’m certainly not against Jimmy Rollins being the Giants SS in 2012. What scares me is that Sabean will be so desperate to fix the ills of the 2011 season that he locks the Giants into a contract with Rollins that is too long-term and too much $$$. I’m afraid that he’s going to offer Rollins somehing like 4 years for $40M – which would be a big mistake in my book. If we can get him for around 2 years @ $11M per year then I would jump for joy. Anything over 2 years becomes a problem for me.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
Totally agree. Rollins for 2 max, Reyes for 3 max. Unrealistic I think, but a solution to a bad problem. There are just not enough Shortstops in the majors who can hit now. What would I do? Take a long look at Crawford this winter, and go all in with the all-D ss. Cheap and cost controlled, make the commitment and hope for the best. I don’t expect the Giants to do this though. Its not how we have handled rookies in the past, I don’t expect that to change. The sign a vet isn’t working either. Tejada was awful, as was the Cabrera trade.
Talking about Sabean’s being desperate – there is no good solution in the majors for short – its moved completely from the all-stars to the all-d’s. I really wish he was more patient last winter. Uribe goes to the Bums, he panics. He had trade targets of Hardy, Bartlett, Scutaro. He had free agents Renteria, Tejada, and yes, Cabrera and a few other scrubs. He panicked, signed Tejada within six hours of Uribe. I’d much rather have Cabrera for 1MM than Tejada for 6.5MM. Sabean telling Minny and TB to screw off lowered the market, but what Hardy and Bartlett were traded for really pissed me off. A little patience please, stay at the damn table for a bit.
So yeah, I think your fear of 4/40 for Rollins is completely legit. I can see that happening. More than Reyes for 4/60 or 5/75. Sabean’s style is to focus in on one solution and go overpay to get it done quickly. I haven’t seen that change at all over his (holy crap) 15 year career here. ironic, because his best signings are usually scrap heap and minor – Grissom, Uribe and Vogelsong come to mind. I’d rather he sit back and dumpster dive.
by shankbone on Sep 24, 2011 9:09 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Totally agree. Rollins for 2 max, Reyes for 3 max.
OK, so you’re not getting Rollins or Reyes. Who do you want instead?
Gigante. Campeón. Pumpkin. Andrés Torres.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
He's really good! He's an injury risk! But he's really good! But he'll be expensive! But he's really good! But he's an injury risk!
What would I do? Take a long look at Crawford this winter, and go all in with the all-D ss.
Once more, coming to you by proxy.
by howtheyscored on Sep 24, 2011 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions
Ugh.
Gigante. Campeón. Pumpkin. Andrés Torres.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
He's really good! He's an injury risk! But he's really good! But he'll be expensive! But he's really good! But he's an injury risk!
We’re in a bad spot. Take the all-D shortstop and hope there’s something there. Cheap. Gotta pay for pitching. He’s patient, bat him 8th, maybe he’ll increase his OBP. Teach those pitchers to hit some more.
I like Crawford, but I do wonder if he has major league bat speed. He has a good frame, and some power potential… But I understand being skeptical.
There is nothing there.
We’re in the NL. We already have to have the pitcher hit. No need to have multiple guys who hit like pitchers.
Gigante. Campeón. Pumpkin. Andrés Torres.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
He's really good! He's an injury risk! But he's really good! But he'll be expensive! But he's really good! But he's an injury risk!
Scutaro is my pick. Boston is going to go with Lowrie and Aviles as their SS next season and his option won’t get picked up. Give him 2/$8 and let him start until one of the Giants minor league SS’s can potentially hit .250 in the majors.
by theimmortalbenard on Sep 26, 2011 5:41 PM PDT up reply actions
That . . .
. . . would require a contract longer than 2 years; maybe 25 or 30.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
Hey, maybe Panik will stick at short
And still hit like expected. LET ME DREAM MR. OWLCROFT!
Don't think he can cut it in the bigs? Brock Bond will be the bigger man and walk walk walk away.
As Judy Tenuta used to say, . . .
. . . it could happen.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
I don’t think it’s that great a stretch to expect Panik to be able to replicate a Scutaro-like performance at SS to be honest. From a defensive standpoint his scouting report is pretty similar to Scutaro (who has over his career been a below average major league fielding SS according to both UZR and +/-, and most human eyes I’d say). And I think his offensive profile is probably a bit higher.
In fact, I have to agree with TIB up there that Scutaro would be a pretty decent fall pack position, however, I think it’s a little murkier scenario than he predicts. Scutaro has a club option for $6 mil with a $1.5 buyout, and he ended up having a pretty good year this year after his horrible start. As a 2.7 WAR player he’s certainly worth the $4.5 mil investment that it would cost Boston to keep him, even if they look at him as simply a utility player. And given Lowrie’s complete inability to stay healthy thus far in his career, Scutaro wouldn’t be the worst investment in the world to have around, especially as Aviles could play other positions elsewhere. In the end, I guess it depends on how much they value depth. They could take the buyout and let him go in which case he might well be a useful low cost acquisition.
except, there’s one other consideration, and that’s that Scutaro himself has a player option for $3 mil. If he or his agent thinks that 2/8 is something he might have to settle for, would it be worth his while to take the $3mil in hand, and wait until next winter when he wouldn’t be competing with Reyes and Rollins for all the SS hungry teams out there? That’s certainly a possibility.
We won’t know for another couple of months, but I agree he’s someone to keep an eye on. Whether he’s actually any better than Owlcroft’s white knight Fontenot or not is actually a decent question though. It looks like Fontenot’s actually a better fielding SS than Scutaro, but likely a worse hitter.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
I thought I read that Furcal’s saying he’s really interested in re-upping with the Cards.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
Is he saying that because he really wants to come back, or because he really wants them to pick up his $12M option?
Even if he really does want to come back, how much money is he going to turn down to make it happen? The Cards are going to have a serious payroll crunch with the Berkman extension and Pujols’s free agency. Unless they let Pujols walk, of course, but even then the drama may take into Spring to play out and I doubt Furcal would wait that long with offers on the table.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
I can’t imagine he has any illusions about that option. That’s as big a no brainer as Vernon Wells not using his opt out clause.
Is Furcal really in a position to have any money to turn down? He’s played 84, 97, and 36 games in three of the last four seasons. He’s had OPS+ seasons of 78, 91, and 78 in the last four years. He’s going to be 34 next year to go along with his historic brittleness. This is a 1 year $3 mil contract waiting to happen. If he’s comfortable in St. Louis and they offer him much of anything I can see him wanting to grab the security rather than worrying about the crickets he might have to listen to once he gets out on the market.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
Reports were that Tampa Bay rejected our offer for Bartlett (as opposed to us telling them to screw) because they preferred San Diego’s. Not wanting to be involved in the Hardy market did mystify me.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
I thought I read Tampa Bay asked for Runzler and that's when Sabean moved on
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Both could be true I suppose. Baggs reported that they preferred San Diego’s offer to ours. I don’t know that I’ve ever read what that offer is. But I can see wanting to keep Runz, particularly last winter. I think the difference in the offers might have been in quantity rather than quality, as the Padres ended up shipping over 4 different vaguely interesting guys, including three different arms that ended up in Tampa Bay’s bullpen this year for varying lengths of time.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
For some reason I can’t let go of this, because all the options were sort of flawed why not wait it out some more. I would not want to imagine the injuries JJ Hardy would have rung up on the Gints this year with our luck, but he was the only guy to emulate Uribe, and his D is pretty good. Balto is set for 3 years while their Machado dude develops. Wish it was us with Hardy. Instead we have to sweat our GM making another hasty decision, because we’re in the same spot as we were last year.
Yeah I don't remember seeing what the package the Giants offer was (a fairly typical Sabean move)
I just remember someone (at ESPN I think) saying that TB wanted Runzler and those conversations kind of stalled, which I guess I can see in hindsight given that TB was looking for pen help and the Giants near ML ready relievers were Edlefsen, Joaquin and maybe Sosa and our best potential tradeable LOOGY was Paterson who was Rule 5’d, we couldn’t go into a quantity battle with SD
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Writing about the MLB Draft at MLBBonusBaby
Are you saying the Rays didn’t want Alex Hinshaw?
As frustrating as Runzler is, he can throw heat.
I think this is where Sabean’s rep of not trading away good arms hurts him a lot – anybody he’s offering up most likely has some taint to opposing gms.
Maybe. Maybe it’s just that the Giants’ system has been rated as extremely top heavy in recent years, and other GMs simply weren’t that interested in prospects who weren’t named Lincecum, Posey, or Bumgarner. Not in this particular instance (Runzler was never an elite prospect), but in general there’s often been a steep drop off after their top couple prospects since they drafted Lincecum. It’s hard to swing trades when most of your farm system’s value is wrapped up in one or two untouchables.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
Hardy is a good player
But let’s not vilify the FO too much for passing. I can’t imagine they didn’t inquire, but Hardy hadn’t played a full season in two years and wasn’t particularly good with the bat when he wasn’t hurt (solid in 2/3 of a season in 2010, but pretty awful in 2009). Tejada was looked at as a really durable guy, which was good for a team that didn’t really have a lot of options if he went down – I don’t think anyone looks at Fontenot as a starting SS except owlcroft, and Crawford was coming off a decent but unspectacular season in AA. Not to mention we were supposed to get offense from more traditional places – Sandoval, Posey, Huff, Belt, Sanchez, Torres, Ross, and Burrell – so even if Tejada just gave us a warm body that would be acceptable, and there was good cause to expect he would do more than that. Combine that with the relatively low price in years, dollars, and players, and it’s not hard to see why Tejada was a better option than a fragile guy who hadn’t been anything special since 2009.
In retrospect, obviously, Hardy would have been a great get. But at the time I personally thought Tejada was a better move, and for good reasons I think.
Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)
I think everybody was in post world series glow, and it was all about Uribe comparisons. Tejada was supposed to replace 2/3 of those 24 long balls. The pickup was greeted with mainly shrugged shoulders at the time. Hey, at least it was only one year, and its less than Renteria got to be on the DL.
I would have greatly preferred Bartlett or Hardy for the D alone at the time. It was a red flag that SD was playing Tejada at third. But my main point is Sabean jumped in because he didn’t want to be left out in the cold and wasn’t liking the offers he was getting. This wasn’t a good move, and its likely to get repeated in less than 2 months.
I can only imagine the offers once the front office realized Tejada was completely toast. You can call 6.5MM cheap, and in a way it is, until they claim poverty and won’t resign Javvy Lopez. Then it bothers me when Sabean blows money to get something done.
Until they claim poverty and won’t resign Javvy Lopez
What if they claim common sense?
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
Agreed. Romo might be a tad bit fragile though, which can explain some of the kid glove treatment. I don’t have much of an issue with Bochy’s bullpen use – except expanding Lopez roll beyond LOOGY and cutting Romo short.
He may or may not be fragile, but turning him into a ROOGY certainly didn't keep him off the DL
Long story short, I think it would be cheaper and just as productive to find a passable left-handed specialist on the cheap and split Lopez’s innings between him and Romo than to pay Lopez god knows how much and continue with the current arrangement.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
Left-handed relievers
Jeremy Affeldt (33) – $5MM club option with a $500K buyout
Mike Gonzalez (34)
John Grabow (33)
Javier Lopez (34)
Damaso Marte (37) – $4MM club option with a $250K buyout
Hideki Okajima (36) – can opt for free agency
Darren Oliver (41)
Arthur Rhodes (41) – $4MM club option with a $200K buyout; vests with 62 appearances
J.C. Romero (36)
George Sherrill (35)
Brian Tallet (34)
Have fun with that. Javy Lopez is a proven commodity. I’ll take frustration over how Bochy manages over Runzler or the scrap heap. Lopez has earned his dough. Pay him and move on.
Look to the scrap heap, where the bargains are.
The shelf life on relievers is too short, by the time a guys is “proven” he’s usually well on his way to done. He’s also usually quite expensive for his value. Plus there’s the sample size issue for relievers in general and LOOGYs in particular, making “proven” a dubious status at best.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
I’m all for scrap heaps, and bargains, and the giants should hit that as well for sure. I’m saying Lopez is worth the money. Are you saying Lopez on his way to done?
I’m saying that no LOOGY is worth the money, precisely because you can’t tell when he’s about to be done. Affeldt looked like a bona fide stud, even a legitimate closer-candidate (which no one would ever confuse Lopez for) and look what happened to him the moment he signed his extension. Relievers in general, and platoon specialists specifically, should always be treated like they’ve got one foot in the grave.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
Elias Rankings
Type A: Romo, Wilson, Casilla
Type B: Lopez, Ramirez, Affeldt
As of 9/11/11 from MLB Trade Rumors.
Offer Lopez arbitration
He probably won’t take it, and if he does I have no real problems paying him a little too much if it’s a one year deal until we get some better options from the farm. Maybe Quinowski can do something, maybe Runzler finds some control. Lopez is only making $2.4M and he won’t get more than $3M in arb which is dandy.
If he hits FA, we don’t bid. Mike Gonzalez, J.C. Romero, and Arthur Rhodes might take a minor league deal; see if you can get one of those with an ST invite and see how they look. All else fails, Affeldt should be relatively easy to bring back and he’s the guy I have the most comfort with considering age, history, and splits – he’s not useless against RHH.
Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)
MLB Trade Rumors thinks Affeldt will get a 2 year deal easily if his contract is bought out. Not sure about that, but it poses a weird scenario I don’t see the Gints executing: you buy him out and offer arbitration, trying to negotiate. He accepts Arb, he’ll get somewhere around 6MM. So in that case its 1.5MM more on top of his 5MM option. But if he refuses, some team will give him another 2 year deal, his type B status doesn’t cost the signing team a pick, you get the supplemental draft pick. I think they’ll try and lock up Lopez quick and then buy out Affeldt, no arbitration.
I would guess . . .
.. . (and it’s only a guess) that they will buy out Affeldt then seek to negotiate direct rather than through arbitration. I’d guess he is motivated to stick with SF if the dollars are even plausible.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
It's certainly the place to be for left-handed specialists.
Lopez and his 0 HR allowed as a Giant can attest to that.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
We’ll see, its Olney and he’s sort of a jackass, but he tweeted 6-7 teams, all with money, who are interested in Lopez. If true, that immediately makes a 3 year deal pretty likely. So now I’m with you on this – don’t overbid on the LOOGY. 2/10 is the max I’d go, and it looks much more likely Affeldt WILL get his option exercised. I think you have to have 1 back to keep the pen stable and while I’d prefer Lopez I don’t think a bidding war for his services is a good move.
Correction
Anything over 2 years becomes a problem for me.
I would be fine with 2 year deal that included a team option for a 3rd year with something like a $1.5M buyout clause
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
I’m not against it; I think it’s a good idea. But Rollins is going to be 33 next year, and I’d say the odds are pretty good that by 2014, maybe even 2013, either Crawford or Adrianza is going to be as good as Rollins. So you’re paying a hefty sum for a one- or two-year patch. A desperately needed patch, to be sure, but still a patch.
Which makes Furcal an intriguing idea. Thanks to ill health and a poor season, he can surely be had on a one-year deal. He’s probably still a solid hitter, better than Rollins—even though he had a bad BABIP year in 2011, his peripherals look fine, as does his defense. He’s a high injury risk, but Fontenot and Crawford make for a decent backup plan.
Furcal Is Renteria 3.0
He is pretty much the most fragile player in MLB. He has lost 2 steps down the line. As a guy who’s speed is the big ticket, this is bad. So I disagree that he is still a good hitter. He’s a choke artist, and an ex-dodger. His fielding range is down, he’s not a good person, and he can’t steal bases anymore. Do you want me to go on? Furcal is the worst possible signing for us. Besides Reyes or Rollins for big ticket money and long years.
I think you’re overestimating those odds on Crawford or Adrianza going to be as good. Really, really overestimating.
The big difference is that Rollins is a speed guy. He’s still a 30-SB guy, and a leadoff hitter. Someone mentioned the home runs, but that’s not the big attraction with Rollins, which lowers his price demands as well as his hesitation the way a power hitter might have to playing at AT&T. If you get him, you’re getting him as a top-of-the-order guy. (Yes, I know a .330 OBP isn’t a great leadoff hitter, but it sure beats the .303 OBP the Giants have had this year).
The leadoff hitter role is a short-term fill in, as Gary Brown should take over that role in 2013 (IMO…although I may be the one overestimating there). But the Giants need a shortstop now, and for the future. Because I don’t think Crawford and especially not Adrianza will be major league average anytime soon. And don’t look to the free agents for the next offseason: That list is made up (right now) of Erick Aybar, Geoff Blum, Luis Rodriguez and Ryan Theriot. Ouch.
My realistic ideal is giving Rollins three years with a fourth year option. That should fill in long enough for the potential emergence of Panik, or finding other options.
"The knowledge of the game is inversely proportional to the price of the seat." ---Bill Veeck. •Read My Blarrrgh...er, um....Comic. That doesn't really come across so well when said sarcastically. The Lunatic Fringe•
by BruteSentiment on Sep 25, 2011 12:03 AM PDT up reply actions
I think you discount his HR power too much.
That’s a pretty tremendous portion of his offensive value, since, as you point out, his OBP is pedestrian for a leadoff man. If he comes here and that power fails (very possible, since he’s a switch hitter and most of his ABs will come from left side, never mind the age issue), the team is losing much of what it paid for.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
Ok, so now I have to tell you to re-read your list, Brute. There are two decent players on that list, and Rollins is the clear #2. If Reyes goes for and gets something in the neighborhood of 7/130 or so, then Rollins market has to be in the 5/50-70 range if his agent has any business acumen at all. That’s the Boras strategem right, you go to the various losers of the Reyes battle and say “so, i hear you were willing to go to x yrs/x $$$ for Reyes. And now that you’ve lost out on what you clearly feel was your biggest need, let’s just go ahead and start the consolation bidding at that same level.”
Three years seems like a crazy underbid for Rollins to me.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
Why should I have to re-read it?
That was my point!
There are NO options beyond Rollins that provide any reasonable offense. And that includes the in-house options.
Do you overpay to get a competent player, or do you have yet another pitcher in the offensive lineup?
Having Rollins in the lineup is the single biggest improvement the Giants can do to their offense (other than Posey returning). That includes overpaying to get Beltran to come back and play left field.
We are at the point in free agency where if you’re not going to overpay to get a decent player, then all you’re going to have is a sub-decent player unless you have an in-house option. And you’ll never win with all the sub-decent players.
"The knowledge of the game is inversely proportional to the price of the seat." ---Bill Veeck. •Read My Blarrrgh...er, um....Comic. That doesn't really come across so well when said sarcastically. The Lunatic Fringe•
by BruteSentiment on Sep 25, 2011 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions
The poor fellow.
There are NO options beyond Rollins that provide any reasonable offense. And that includes the in-house options.
I really, really don’t think that Mike Fontenot (who is apparently the Invisible Man) would be “yet another pitcher in the offensive lineup”. In a sanely constructed lineup, imagining only one free agent (a corner outfielder), Fontenot bats #8, and I’d say would do a darn good job, there or even rather higher.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
Fontenot is needed for another role
That of utility infielder. Who plays second if Freddy gets hurt? Who plays third when Pablo needs a rest? Shortstop in a day game after a night game?
Penciling Fontenot in as the starting shortstop means you can’t use him in a role in which he would likely be far more valuable and comfortable in.
Gigante. Campeón. Pumpkin. Andrés Torres.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
He's really good! He's an injury risk! But he's really good! But he'll be expensive! But he's really good! But he's an injury risk!
Utility For Sure
Cheap, hits righties well, plays the 3 IF positions well although he really is a 2b due to his arm and a 3b due to his range. Trixie Hobbitses is awesome for the roll.
Freddy will miss 50 games easy. Count on it. The question is, with feet of concrete and no pop, is Keppinger the right guy for backup 2b? Because thats the only position he can really play. And he really is a lefty masher, not an everyday guy at that.
DeRosa on a minor league contract might be worth looking at – he’ll be at the 1MM Fontenot level instead of the 3-4MM Keppinger level, and he can play all over. I don’t see a lot of difference in DeRosa and Keppingers bat with DeRosa missing a wrist and Keppinger being almost as slow as Bengie Molina it might be a wash. Is there a skill set that Keppinger brings I’m missing?
Fontenot is not a "natural" shortstop, true.
But he plays the position adequately. The Giants are just not in a position to add more than one major player, and the scope of improvement available by getting a big-bat corner outfielder is much greater than it is at shortstop.
As I keep pointing out, Hall, despite his unpopularity on this forum, is a perfectly adequate extra infielder; his glove, if we can believe any of the fielding metrics, is curiously better at SS and 3B than at 2B, but that’s no issue as he can play SS and let Fontenot play 2B when it’s time to give Freddy his weekly day off. Hall strikes out more than average, bats only about .250, and walks a little below league average; but he has remarkable power, and the package net for him is (as I have said many times before) nontrivially better than, for an example, Juan Uribe, and a hair over Jeff Keppinger (whose utter one-dimensionality as a fielder eliminates him from realistic discussion in this role).
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
What I was taking exception to was your notion of obtaining Rollins for a 3 year deal with a club option 4th year. I don’t think that gets you anything. Unless I misread you completely, it looked to me like what you were suggesting was a overpay will actually be a substantial underpay on the market.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
I don’t think Crawford or Adrianza have the upside to be a Jimmy Rollins type player. Maybe on the defensive side, but he’s been pretty solid during his career.
Rollins as a speed guy – he has been remarkably consistent with SBs so far. For a contract that covers his 33-35/6 age, are you confident he can keep rolling out 30SBs?
I can’t see Rollins getting his OPS above 750 again in his career, especially not at Pacbell. So you’re signing the guy to bring “gold glove” defense, get on base, steal some bags, vet leadership and hoping his gap power stays intact (down this year a lot). That will cost $11-12MM a year, for 3-4 years minimum. You most likely have to go over that, as I think Amaro will match an offer pretty quickly – unless Freddy Galvis is for real.
The Mets are going to go 5/75 minimum for Reyes. The Phils will go 3/36 with Rollins. Then if other teams come over the top, both these teams will most likely match. Its going to take massive amounts of money to pry these guys away. Both teams have a need at short and no obvious replacement. They are the last big name shortstops coming for a long time, until A. Cabrera, S. Castro and Y. Escobar come on the market. With the injury risks involved, at some point you have to walk away from the bidding. Personally I see Jimmy Rollins as a pretty big risk to regress, and slow down.
Crawford is not a great prospect. But he has great defense, he’s cheap and there is always a chance. There are no good trades to make, so its either overpay and take the big risk or slog on with our guy(s). 2 things about him: his BB/K rate has improved a lot, and the Giants are high enough on him to give him Spier/Aurillia’s #35. Is this the new John Barr Giants or the old Giants? My head tells me he’s Kevin Frandsen. I still prefer him to mediocre vets if they can’t win out on Reyes/Rollins.
One of the rules that Bill Neukem [sp?] brought is no more 3 year + contracts. It will be interesting to see if the Management Group under Larry Baer changes that.
Go Giants
2 years at 9-11 mill a year
Would seem to be a fair deal. Rollins is still young enough to go two years. Anything over two years and the Giants will pass.
Money comes and money goes but CHAMPIONSHIPS live on forever .
by grabsumpinemeat on Sep 24, 2011 9:20 AM PDT up reply actions
You should look again at Brute’s list pup there. And that’s not even taking account of teams that aren’t losing their current SS but might be wishing they were (hello Milwaukee). Thin market at crucial position means the top guys get to drive the market to extremes. Settling for a two year deal now and hoping the market is just as favorable in 2013 would be a pretty bad financial decision as I’m sure his agent would make clear. I wouldn’t be horribly shocked to see Rollins land a 5/50+ deal, though 4/48 is probably a more conservative guess.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
by Roger on Sep 24, 2011 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Where is this story?
Giant Dirtbags: :(
Jeremy Affeldt is terrible.
by Giant among Angels on Sep 24, 2011 10:11 AM PDT reply actions
I think it’s from a Jon Heyman tweet
https://twitter.com/#!/SI_JonHeyman/status/117300911285600256
Feed the Panda some bamboo
by anotherbadexcuseguitar on Sep 24, 2011 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions
cc guessed bay area buddy jimmy rollins may sign in SF. "they need a ss.’’ (jimmy was 1st to predict cc would be yank)
the parenthesis makes this item notable, barely
Choppin' broccoli
by SimpleJaquez on Sep 24, 2011 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions
Am I the only one who thinks this is a good idea?
I wouldn’t go 4/$48, but I’d love Rollins for 3/$30, and 3/$36 would be palatable.
He just posted a 3.4 WAR season, has averaged just under 4 WAR per season, is very durable(>600 PA every year except 2010).
Pessimistically, with an aging curve, I’d project 3 WAR, 2.7 WAR, 2.5 WAR. At $5mm/WAR, that comes out to $41mm in value.
How about 4/$48 with a $2mm buyout on the last year, that would make it 3/$38. I could stomach that, too.
We’re not paying below market price, but we shouldn’t expect to. Remember, our SS was BELOW replacement level this year.
NB: If the team would honestly consider Fonty as full time SS, I could get behind that, but they won’t, and this isn’t a bad option.
I think the Giants should just kidnap Asdrubal Cabrera, change his name, and call it a day
I'm a Giants Fan, but I'll always be rooting for Matt Downs
Adopted Son:Dan Burkhart , Future Backup To Buster Posey.
+1
They should change his name to Leo Nunez – I hear there’s an opening for the name now.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
*Ding,Ding* Winner !
I'm a Giants Fan, but I'll always be rooting for Matt Downs
Adopted Son:Dan Burkhart , Future Backup To Buster Posey.
Darren Ford!
Carter Jurica!
"Has anyone really been for even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?"
by GrahamCrakalaka on Sep 26, 2011 1:35 AM PDT up reply actions
No, he didn't.
Unless, Bruce, you think 41 PA constitutes an “audition”.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
As I said elsewhere . . .
. . . any discussion of the Giants and their prospects almost has to be tagged as being one of two things: rational or realistic—and there is almost no commonality between the two. We can entertain ourselves talking about what would be good moves, or we can entertain ourselves talking about what these dolts are likely to do next, but to let the two become commingled is a recipe for confusion, misunderstandings, and even occasional rancor.
I am most entertained by discussions of the rational—what a sane management could do. That is, however, just a personal taste.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
Personally I was excited
to see a proven vet TM treated like a rookie.
Bill Hall’s D is/was terrible. Any notion of him playing short is insane.
You could look it up.
For some curious reason, extant fielding metrics (notably UZR/150) have him as indeed a mediocre second baseman, but an above average shortstop and third baseman. Meanwhile, any notion of Keppinger playing SS, which notions have been seen not so far away, are what is insane; even the idea of Keppinger playing second is not entirely rational.
And you can make this sign™ with this code dropin:
™
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
Nice Tip on the TM
Keppinger was a great fill-in, but those concrete shoes he carries around makes him next to useless even at 2nd.
The Giants want to throw a minor league deal at Hall, why not. Its too bad he wasn’t Pat Burrell 2 this year, but I think our scrap heap expectation is climbing through the roof lately…
OK I looked it up
He’s got better stats off of 2b. Hall played short for reals in 2006 in MIL, because JJ Hardy hurt his ankle. So why was he moved off short by MIL, SEA, BOS and HOU? I’m guessing MIL had Hardy, SEA needed OF help, BOS needed utility and who knows with Houston.
As a cheap utility guy, if he can hit 250 with pop, why not? He got 31 games in Fresno/113 ABs. 274/328/868 with 7 dongs and 9 doubles. If that could translate, sure that is useful. Can’t see advanced fielding metrics, but it does say he made 7 errors in those 31 games.
And I forgot that Hall got spiked and was DLd, but I think there was a lot of grousing about him by that time as I recall. Anyways, sure, minor league contracts for Hall or DeRosa are low risk possible utility vet moves.
Well, tis the season for rosterbation.
I would feel pretty okay with this lineup next year and I am not sure it is all that impossible.
Rollins (6)
Sanchez (4)
Beltran (9)
Sandoval (5)
Posey (2)
Cuddyer (7)
Belt/ Huff(3)
Ross/ Torres (8)
Pitcher (1)
For the thirteen time in 3 or one evers, I found myself toothlessly thinking about Manny Ramirez.
Much easier:
# = S, x = L
#Torres cf
xBelt rf
Posey c
#Sandoval 3b
FA lf
xHuff 1b
FSanchez 2b
xFontenot ss
Only requires one acquisition, and is, I think, formidable.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
I kind of like that lineup. Fred Sanchez definitely bats second when he plays here for Bochy. Dude’s a former batting champ. And he’s so consistent putting the ball in play, I actually think he’d be a great #5 or 6. And Belt’s speed is nice hitting second. Belt may get some starts leading off next year.
Baggs or somebody was mentioning Cuddyer who can backup 2B, and play LF. But that’s a whole nother thread.
Marvin Barrios, come on I'll show you your bedroom. Don't stay on the phone too long to Panama, please.
by foothillsfan on Sep 27, 2011 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions
BUT THE WALLS!
Brian Wilson: "Don't Quote Me"
Buster Posey: "I Ain't Havin' It"
Pat Burrell: "The Patural"
Aubrey Huff: "Let's Get Weird"
by slackersphere17 on Sep 27, 2011 8:20 PM PDT reply actions
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