minor lines, 9/1/11
by steve S on Sep 1, 2011 10:58 PM PDT
in They Might Be Giants
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PrintThursday highlights from the Giants' farm: Conor Gillaspie, Justin Christian and Devin Harris homered as part of multi-hit performances; and Eric Surkamp had 6.0 scoreless IP.
AAA: Fresno defeated Reno 4-1
Fresno: RF Justin Christian: 2 for 4, HR, SO, SB
Fresno: 3B Conor Gillaspie: 2 for 3, HR, BB, SB
Fresno: SP Scott Munter: 3.0 IP, 4 K
With two hits each, including a HR each, Gillaspie and Christian combined for four of the Grizzlies' six hits. Gillaspie has hit .297/.389/.453 through 428 in his first PCL season.
Making just his second start in the last seven seasons, Munter had 3.0 perfect IP.
AA: Richmond lost to New Britain 8-0
Richmond: 2B Charlie Culberson: 2 for 4, SO, E
Richmond: SP Ryan Verdugo: 3.1 IP, 6 H, 6 R, 5 ER, 5 BB, 3 K--2 HR, 1 WP
With two of the Flying Squirrels' five hits, Culberson had his fourth straight multi-hit game. He was the lone Squirrel to reach base twice but also committed his 13th error.
Verdugo had one of his least effective starts of the season, with 6 R being the most allowed in any of his last ten starts. This was likely his last start of the year, in which case he finishes his first season as a starting pitcher with a 4.35 ERA in 25 starts. Despite having more walks than strikeouts in each of his last two starts, he still finished with a K/BB above 2.00.
A+: San Jose defeated Bakersfield 5-2
San Jose: CF Gary Brown: 2 for 4, 2B, BB
San Jose: C Hector Sanchez: 1 for 3, HR, 2 BB, SO
San Jose: RF Jarrett Parker: 1 for 3, HR, HBP, SO
San Jose: SP Eric Surkamp: 6.0 IP, 4 H, 0 R, 0 ER, 1 BB, 5 K
Sanchez had his 12th HR of the year, and Parker his 13th HR. Sanchez and Brown both reached base three times.
The box score indicates that Surkamp had a strong start to stay finely tuned for his next big league start.
A-: Augusta lost to Rome 6-1
Augusta: SS Robert Haney: 2 for 4, 2 SO, CS
Augusta: RF Devin Harris: 2 for 3, HR
Augusta: SP Mike Kickham: 6.0 IP, 6 H, 3 R, 3 ER, 0 BB, 5 K--1 HR
Rome: SP Sean Gilmartin: 5.2 IP, 5 H, 1 R, 1 ER, 0 BB, 8 K--1 HR
Harris had his 15th HR. He and Haney were two of the three GreenJackets' with two hits each.
Kickham finished his first full pro season with his third straight quality start, but he was outdueled by Gilmartin, whom the Braves selected 28th overall this year. Kickham had a 4.11 ERA in 21 starts this year.
ssA: Salem-Keizer lost to Tri-City 7-2
Salem-Keizer: SS Joe Panik: 2 for 3
Salem-Keizer: C Joseph Staley: 2 for 4, E
Salem-Keizer: SP Jack Snodgrass: 3.0 IP, 6 H, 4 R, 4 ER, 0 BB, 2 K
Salem-Keizer: RP Matt Graham: 2.0 IP, 1 H, 4 K
With two hits each, Panik and Staley combined for four of the Volcanoes' six hits. They raised their respective AVGs to .341 and .281.
After allowing just 1 ER (but 4 R) over his first three pro starts, Snodgrass allowed 4 ER in his fourth start. Graham had perhaps his best appearance of the year, striking out four of his seven batters.
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well
he looks like 40 in that pic, other than that tho i’m not sure
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
Well...
I guess this is no time to Panik…or is it??
Quietly hoping Brandon Belt develops into John Olerud, circa 1993.
by AndOnTheDrums... on Sep 2, 2011 1:04 AM PDT reply actions
Fla, Brute, or Roger...
Who do you think should rank higher in preseason lists next season? Panik or Susac?
Well, Roger has already stated that he’s pretty sure that he’ll rank Panik at #2 (presumably behind only Brown), and I doubt he has Susac in his top 5 based on his recent comments, but maybe he’s changed his mind on that.
I probably will rank Panik around #4 of 5 with Susac just a tick behind him.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
I actually said that I’m thinking about it strongly.
I don’t know what order I’ll end up with them in, but I think the top of the system for me will definitely be Brown, Peguero, Panik, Joseph, Adrianza, and Surkamp. And then the rest of the top 10 in some order for me is probably Susac, Osich, Sanchez, and Hembree.
Wow, three catchers in the top 10 in a system with a still reigning ROY catcher and a star player who’s a former catcher. Nice to know we’re developing another specialty! Good catchers are always a commodity in demand.
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Hector has resumed raking now that he’s been redeposited in the California League. I wonder what his line would look like if they’d just left him alone there all season.
But that wouldn't have looked savvy.
Gigante. Campeón. Pumpkin. Andrés Torres.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
Yeah, that was a really ill-conceived call up, it seems to me. I’d really like to know what he could have done with a full season in the Cal.
Joseph’s still the better prospect to me, despite the fact that Sanchez has the much better line. The age (third youngest player in the league), improved performance after May, and growing defensive reputation are the key factors to me. Heck, he’s even got his walk rate up to 5%!
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I don’t know that Sanchez really has a much better line. They’re very similar hitters, at least in the Cal League — good power but lousy K/W — and while Sanchez has hit more homers, Joseph has been a little less hacky.
Still pretty hacky. And while his summer performance has been nice, he has not been able to hit at home.
The good: monthly wOBA .314, .202… .355, .383, .388.
The bad: home wOBA, .288
by wcw on Sep 2, 2011 6:56 AM PDT up reply actions
SJ is the worst hitters park in that league, and in particular has a history of both promoting Ks and suppressing HR power, so we’ll see. (Another guy who could be really getting affected by that is Parker, since LH power is even more suppressed in that park than RH). I’m still hanging my hat on his age.
And really, while browsing through minor league history the other day looking for poor walk rates in response to your question on Peguero, I found some pretty good future players who put up 5% walk rates in the minors in their youths. That’s a much larger, and more successful, pool then when you dip down to the 3% guys. Of course, the Ks are a problem indicator.
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Actually Joseph has hit more homers — a lot more in fact (20 to 11)
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aha!
The disturbing part for Sanchez is the complete lack of power in the PCL.
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I'm a big Sanchez fan
But it looks to me like he was selling out more for power in the Cal league and just trying to tread water in Fresno. I’d probably rank him ahead of Joseph and Susac but all 3 are in my top 10
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by Gobroks on Sep 2, 2011 12:19 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
splits
Do you, or anyone else, still have Josephs’s hitting stats as catcher vrs a DH/1B?
C: .377 PA
269/.305/.484
15 HRs
5% bb rate, 18.5% K rate
1B/DH: 162 PA
.247/.302/.377
5HRs
6% bb rate, 18.5% K rate
I don’t know if there’s anything to read into that. He has far far fewer PA as a 1B/DH. I guess I would note that he played 1B/DH more in May than in any other month (12 games, 7 games in April and no more than 5 in any other month), which was also by far his worst month at the plate. But I’m going correlation doesn’t imply causation on that. When he was hitting well he hit well from any position, and when he was slumping he slumped equally as well.
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Anybody know why they did it?
It seemed like the obvious thing was to call up Max Ramirez, and then they instead messed with the development of an actual prospect.
I don’t believe they had Ramirez yet when they brought Sanchez up to Fresno. They did have him the first time they brought Sanchez to SF, but just barely IIRC.
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Yeah, you're right
I was more talking about the promotion to the majors.
it wasn’t too surprising – iirc there were a lot of yo-yo’s over on the Extra Baggs blog practically demanding that H. Sanchez be called up…they were sure he was the next Pablo…and they are probably somewhat representative of the Giants’ fan base because just like in the case of Pill, it will start there and then in 3-4 weeks time more and more people will start calling into KNBR with the same thoughts…
by repeat_in_2011 on Sep 2, 2011 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Sim has been coming on strong, too.
What does he have to do next year to make us start talking about our top 4 catcher depth?
I think my top 10 matches yours except I put Ehire as 11, letting me sneak Duvall in at 10.
Well mostly he needs to get in an age appropriate environment, which will be next to impossible for him given the inventory. You figure Sanchez in Fresno, Joseph in Richmond, Susac in SJ. Then there’s the whole Arnold/Burkhart/Staley scrum, which probably makes sim a 23 year old in short-season NWL next year. I don’t see what he could possibly do in that scenario to really put himself on the prospect map. Being a 22 year old in the AZL makes his stats from this summer pretty meaningless.
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Your projections for the starting assignments dovetail with mine, except that I think the Augusta job is very much up for grabs. I don’t see that any of the Arnold, Burkhart, and Staley group has done much to justify the starting spot in Augusta. I could easily see Sim winning a half share of that job if he has a good 2012 ST. Arnold is the only one of the 3 that can match him defensively, but Arnold’s bat is very anemic. It wouldn’t surprise me if Arnold ended up being the 2nd catcher in SJ next year.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
Yeah Arnolds a born backup. I suppose Sim could jump up to Augusta but typically their AZL assignments really do give insight into the organizational depth chart. Of course there’s a lot of time in IL and ST for things to change.
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No question
Sim was not highly-regarded in the system at the start of the year – mainly because of his bat. I think that his offensive prowess in the AZL this year has to be taken with a huge grain of salt, but it will likely get him a better look and more of a chance to make the Augusta team in ST next year.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
Am I crazy to have Mike Murray penciled in as the starting catcher at Augusta next year?
2011 SF Giants: We are disappoint.
I’d say his big league future lies at 1B or DH – if he makes it. IMO, if the Giants really thought he had a future at C they would have put him behind the plate at least a few times this summer.
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Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
Thanks
He’s just another name on a list to me, as I’m trying to do the same thing and assign starters to the various affiliates for next year.
So if you think Sim has a chance to share the job in Augusta, who’s your best guess for his co-catcher there?
2011 SF Giants: We are disappoint.
To get back to the original question...
Panik, no doubt.
But then, as is often noted, I’m a big performance guy. The fact that Panik has played a full half-season, and been somewhat decent while playing, gives us some idea of how he’ll do in the pros down the line. We don’t have that on Susac.
Despite media scouts rating Susac as a late-first round talent, he slipped to the second round for everyone, thanks to some injury concerns and some differing opinions about him staying at catcher. He’ll have to prove those concerns wrong to pass Panik, and this season, it won’t happen.
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by BruteSentiment on Sep 2, 2011 9:22 AM PDT up reply actions
yeah, I absolutely agree with this. That’s why he’s in the second tier/late Top 10 guys for me. There’s certainly pedigree there, and some encouraging performances in a very good college league, but that doesn’t put him over a guy drafted higher who’s hit the ground running with an outstanding performance in his pro debut.
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Interesting POV on Susac
While I agree that I would currently rank Panik ahead of Susac right now (but only slightly), I have a couple of problems with some of the other things that you wrote.
I’m not sure why you used the plural when metioning Susac and injuries (maybe I misunderstood what you wrote). The only injury that I’m familiar with was the broken hamate bone in his hand. I also have to disagree with you on the whole “staying at catcher” comment. He did have a rocky freshman season in 2009 which brought out questions, but the gains that he made defensively during the summer of 2010 and the 2011 college season pretty much put that talk to bed. I didn’t see a single pre-draft report that questioned his ability to stick at catcher in the pros. In comparison, the reports questioning Panik’s ability to stick at SS were numerous and the norm. From what I read, the main question mark against Susac pre-draft was his offense. I’ll also add that, having seen both Susac and Posey catch multiple games during the final few weeks of their college careers, I would personally rank Susac’s defense ahead of Posey’s at the same stage in their 2 careers. I would also say that, IMO, the potential for Susac to be a plus defender at C in the major leagues is much, much higher than for Panik to be a plus defender at SS or 2B.
In terms of comparing Panik and Susac offensively, we do have a good means of comparison. They both played in the Cape Cod League in the summer of 2010. Against the same competition, and with wood bats, here’s how they did:
Panik : .276/.384/.372/.756, ISOp=.096, AB=145, H=40, 2B=8, 3B=0, HR=2, BB=20 (11.4%), K=12 (6.9%)
Susac: .290/.390/.500/.890, ISOp=.210, AB=100, H=29, 2B=6, 3B=0, HR=5, BB=13 (10.8%), K=25 (20.8%)
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
I should also add...
IMO, the potential for Susac to be an above-average defender at C in the major leagues is much, much higher than for Panik to be an above-average defender at SS.
Also, I believe that you’re discounting the role that signability played in the fall of Susac all the way to the end of the 2nd round. Once he fell past the first 32 picks, then signability started to become a bigger factor. Do not forget that he had big leverage because he was a draft-eligible sophomore, so what teams saw was a sophomore with plenty of options that was asking for mid-first round money to sign.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
Yeah, I don’t remember hearing the concerns about Susac being unable to stay at catcher being a reason he dropped. From what I remember, the reasons were that he was a draft-eligible sophomore–so he had a lot of leverage–and then the hamate bone injury. I think more weight was given to the former than the latter.
At any rate, I’m glad we got both he and Panik.
This isn't meant to be argumentative, just trying to make a point:
I think that to compare the defensive abilities between Susac and Posey is a little bit disingenuous. Posey had been playing catcher for two years with a ton of learning and development left ahead, while being described as a “sponge” when it came to learning. Susac has presumably been a catcher for much longer, so you can’t expect the same spike in defensive ability over the next two years.
I’m not saying that Susac can’t improve his defensive acumen, but it’s apples and oranges.
The differing opinions about staying at catcher stems from stuff I read on OGC’s blog, though I’ll admit he may have overstated some of Mayo’s comments, although that’s my fault for being on his site. But that is really the crux of my reasoning: we haven’t really seen what he can or will do in the pros. Not even the Cape Cod league as an indicator outweighs actually everyday playing in the pros.
As for the plural, the plural was on ‘concerns’ and not ‘injury’, just saying multiple people had a concern, not that there was more than one injury.
Bluntly put, I don’t think Susac is an automatic top prospect. And as some will point to his likelihood at being a catcher making him more valuable, I’d counter by suggesting that his offense may be being leveraged because he plays a more defensively important position.
I have no al imperical evidence to back this up, but my feeling about the way scouts wrote about him give me the impression that Panik has a swing that’ll really adapt better to the pros.
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by BruteSentiment on Sep 2, 2011 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions
I pretty much agree with all of this. We both agree that Panik should be rated ahead of Susac, but we have some disagreement just how far down the list Susac should be.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
Once upon a time
Gary Brown was considered a good fielder without enough power to be considered a serious prospect.
Yeah, that happened.
Funny old world ain’t it?
I’m not sure where you went to get your not “a serious prospect” comment, unless you only go with Keith Law for your evaluations. Gary Brown was pretty much seen as a serious prospect ever since the middle of his junior year in college. Some evaluators quibbled about whether or not the Giants should have taken him as high as #24, but pretty much everybody saw him as a first round pick. The power tool is not something that you have to have for a guy that projects to be your leadoff hitter and play plus D in CF.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
by Fla-Giant on Sep 2, 2011 5:13 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
As I’ve mentioned here a few times (including I think on the day of that draft), in BA’s draft preview podcast that they did the week before the 2010 draft, John Manual said (by way of an anecdote to show just how up for grabs that draft board was) that in the past week he’d talked to two different scouts who were sent to scout Christian Colon and came away thinking Gary Brown would be the better pro prospect.
Given how scrambled everybody’s board was last year, the Brown pick scarcely caused a raised eyebrow. The Panik pick this year got a lot more comment, but even there he had strong supporters in the scouting community.
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Yeah I was listening to the BP Podcast after the 2011 draft
And Keith Law said that since that draft was so weak that the Cubs taking Hayden Simpson (who was a much bigger reach then Brown) was somewhat justified because none of the talent outside of Harper/Taillon/Machado really separated themselves
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by Gobroks on Sep 2, 2011 12:24 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
And Hayden Simpson has been terrible
Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)
He had Mono right before the draft
And his strength never really returned. I think something similar happened to Michael Main
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by Smotheredinhugs on Sep 2, 2011 4:45 AM PDT up reply actions
Ooh, maybe I still have a Giants Munter jersey in my future!
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by Gobroks on Sep 2, 2011 12:25 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Ding-Dong the season's dead
S-K was eliminated from the postseason with their loss last night. It will be interesting to see if Bobby Evans ships Panik to Augusta or SJ after their last game on Saturday.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
I saw that Panik was removed for a pinch runner after a single to RF in the 7th inning. hopefully, its nothing.
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by nostocksjustbonds on Sep 2, 2011 7:51 AM PDT up reply actions
According to his twitter 2 more games and back to NY for awhile.
For the most part the Volcanoes roster has no idea where they’re headed after the last game. For some reason the Giants haven’t even let on who’s going to instructs.
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It’s got to be pretty hard to lose these days when Gary Brown is leading off for your team.
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Augusta pretty much has to win all 4 of their remaining games to have a shot at postseason play. They’re now 2 games back after losing their last 2 games. Good to see Duvall back and playing a full game. He would seem like a no-brainer for a promotion to SJ if they fail to overtake Savannah. SJ has been playing Jose Flores and Nick Noonan at 3B over the past 6 weeks.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
Judging from Billy Byler’s tweets and columns, and some of the comments on his column yesterday, the Augusta faithful are good and pissed off at the Giants. Some even accusing the organization of intentionally sabotaging the GreenJackets chance at a playoff team! Yikes! Tempers running high in Georgia!
The source of the discontent is that the Giants sent 4 players from Augusta to Richmond in the final two weeks of the season. Byler’s column after yesterday’s game suggested that Augusta had no chance with a roster “picked apart” and a “shell of themselves.” As far as I can tell, all the moves had perfectly rationale causes (filling voids left by promotions of Surkamp and Edlefsen, and Kieschnick’s DL stint), but apparently they caused some pretty bad PR.
The funny thing is that of the four player (Drew Bowlin, Justin Schumer, Austin Fleet, Ryan Lollis), only Lollis was really an important member of the team. Schumer and Fleet really had both had pretty bad years, and Bowlin was a decent middle reliever who was about the 5th option out of the bullpen before Dunnington and Harrold were sent up to SJ earlier.
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It could have been worse
Don’t you get the feeling that they left Duvall in Augusta all year mostly out of loyatly to the Augsta owners? Once Dominguez went to Richmond it was a no-brainer that Duvall should have been promo’d to SJ.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
Interesting. SJ has had kind of a revolving door at 3B after Dominguez left: Flores, Burg, Noonan.
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by kdl on Sep 2, 2011 9:41 AM PDT up reply actions
I don’t actually. Seems like we’ve been hearing from Barr and others that they prefer to let players get a full first year in one place, and I think their actions have generally backed that up the last few years, with only pretty extreme exceptions (Belt’s dominance, Posey’s posiness, or conversely Burriss’ horrible struggles with the Cal League assignment).
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by Roger on Sep 2, 2011 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Susac and Oropesa
According to their twitter feeds, both of these guys won’t make their pro debuts until next spring. Both will be back in Scottsdale for the AZ Instructional League games that begin in a little over 2 weeks, but htat doesn’t count as a pro debut.
I’m really surprised that neither one of them didn’t get any games in for the AZL Giants. I could see why the Giants would hold them back if they were high school kids or college pitchers, but keeping a college positon player off the field goes against the Giants recent philosphy. In the last 6 years, Jarrett Parker and Roger Kieschnick are the only 2 college position players drafted in the first 3 rounds that didn’t make their pro debuts in the summer that they were drafted – and that includes the guys that didn’t sign until the August deadline. I don’t remember what happened with Kieschy, but the only reason that Parker didn’t make his pro debut last summer was that he got really sick and then had a small injury at the end of August and beginning of September.
Maybe Susac was too rusty to step right in at catcher, but how much work does it take for Oropesa to be ready for 1B? Were Steve Yarrow (undrafted FA) and Bryan Nicholson (38th rd.) really keeping Ricky from taking the field?
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
I remember that Posey seemed really tired and worn down at the end of that draft summer when they sent him to Hawaii. I wonder if that played into their thinking at all with Susac. Or, conversely, if they just think that having not played at all for two months, maybe he wasn’t in game shape for catching and risked injury? Just pulling stuff out of my ass really. Who knows, but minor knicks and bruises could be involved.
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Oropesa
Didn’t his swing need some serious adjustments? Maybe they’ve just been working on his swing this whole time.
by Mycroft's Brother on Sep 2, 2011 10:47 AM PDT via iPhone app up reply actions
Sorry, I couldn’t resist.
I have no idea why Oropesa hasn’t played.
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Hah that really confused me for a second. I was thinking, Roger’s usually nice, was that necessary?
by Mycroft's Brother on Sep 2, 2011 1:52 PM PDT via iPhone app up reply actions
lol...
i was thinking for a second, wtf has gotten into Roger….he’s usually polite even when some dimwit like pbjsandwich is rude to him…
by repeat_in_2011 on Sep 2, 2011 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Sorry, didn’t mean to distress — I figured it was like a secret handshake to show I got your user name. Smiley emoticons time!
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Connor Gillaspie:
better hitting prospect than Brandon Crawford and Emmanuel Burriss.
That may be the most underwhelming compliment in history.
(Also, one would expect 3b to be better hitting prospects than SS, especially when considering poor fielding 3b and great fielding SS)
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
I lol’d/. Literally.
Adopted father of Brian Bocock, Brad Boyer, Sharlon Schoop, Shane Jordan, Jeremiah Luster,Trey Webb,David Quinowski, Jeff Arnold,Brandon Allen, Chris Gloor and Brian Maloney.
"GM Jack Zduriencik is one of the sharper tools in the shed. Elsewhere in that shed, Brian Sabean continues to pound screws into bricks with a garden rake."
Crawford will still probably save more runs than Gillaspie will ever create on the Major league level.
"Don't trust anyone under the age of 30" - Brian Sabean
by Smotheredinhugs on Sep 2, 2011 7:37 AM PDT up reply actions
you guys took this post way more seriously
than I expected you to.
With the amount of morons that show up
Can you blame them? Follow-up question: can Pill play 2B?
Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)
hey, i was gonna ask that question too
and actually i think i did already a few months ago…. :)
by repeat_in_2011 on Sep 2, 2011 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Since, one of my hat’s here seems to be the #1 booster for Adrianza, I suppose I should note that, like Brown, Ehire got on base 3 times last night, going 2 for 4 with a double and a walk and scoring two runs.
He now has a .180 Iso in the Cal league, and a .380 OBP.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
Has that walk rate topped 2% yet?
Gigante. Campeón. Pumpkin. Andrés Torres.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
.304/.381/.484 … that’s an impressive line for a 21-year-old shortstop, even given that it’s the Cal League, even given that it’s his second go-round.
I think the hand surgery in April is a mitigating factor, too (well moreso mitigating his poor start in the Sally). It’s a really good year.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
Hopefully we'll see him in AA next year.
If a future SS exists in the Giants system, I think it’s him.
Gigante. Campeón. Pumpkin. Andrés Torres.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
How dare you doubt Brandon Crawford!
Wait, I just checked out his PCL line this year. Adrianza it is!
Ask me about my blog.
by xanthan on Sep 2, 2011 8:04 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm actually surprised by how bad he's been in AAA.
Gigante. Campeón. Pumpkin. Andrés Torres.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
I thought he was going to go there and make me look like a complete moron
Gigante. Campeón. Pumpkin. Andrés Torres.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
Instead he did that to me!
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Sep 2, 2011 8:21 AM PDT up reply actions
Well you're a lot smarter than me, so that's less notable.
Gigante. Campeón. Pumpkin. Andrés Torres.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
Roger wuz right!
I was more of a Crawford booster simply because he’d had at least some success with the bat compared to none for Ehire, but that has now changed. I’m now borderline excited to see how Adrianza does in Richmond.
Wow, didn't realize how good a line he had
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, future CF for the World Champion San Francisco Giants.
"And besides, if I wanted to participate in a mindless patriotic ritual where my voice isn’t really heard, I would vote." - Chris Marcil
Meh...
Crawford posted .371/.445/.600 in half the at bats at roughly the same age 2 years ago. It’s certainly a step up for Adrianza, but I don’t think either of the two will ever see above .735 OPS at the Major league level. To me it’s the defense that will really be the determining factor. I haven’t seen enough Adrianza to really be convinced that he’ll be better than Crawford in the field – but that would be quite impressive.
"Don't trust anyone under the age of 30" - Brian Sabean
by Smotheredinhugs on Sep 2, 2011 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions
"half the at bats" is a pretty big qualifier to "meh" through.
Especially when it was only 119 PAs. Dude had a .493 BABIP.
Only the 29th best prospect in our system.
Check out Catch-28.com, a blog about Buster Posey and the San Francisco Giants.
It’s funny, a lot of prospects that were in my top ten last year (Ehire, Joseph, Brown, Surkamp) are going to stay in my top ten.
I’ve also started to reconsider some on Parker. I like most of his TOOLs, but man, those strikeouts are concerning. He might get bumped out of my top ten.
Ask me about my blog.
I think he’s a top 15 guy, but I’ll probably bump him out of the ten right now.
Ask me about my blog.
I want to believe, but yeah he's not a top 10 guy for me either
If you’re gonna K that much you need more power than a .410 SLG and .150 ISO in the Cal league
Twitter Blog (Infrequently Updated)
Writing about the MLB Draft at MLBBonusBaby
by Gobroks on Sep 2, 2011 12:34 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Yeah he’s going to get to 140 Ks. That’s really a ton. I think I’d definitely drop him behind Duvall at this point. and then there’s just a scrum of young pitchers that I don’t really know how to order at this point: Crick, Blackburn, Arnold, Mejia, Mendoza, DeJesus, and Jorge Bucardo. Scouting report and/or medical reports needed to help figure out all those guys (Osich, too, but at least we’ve seen what’s in his arm when it’s healthy). Hopefully, some info will be forthcoming in BA’s post-season league rankings and chats.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
Duvall is probably a dark horse top ten candidate in my book. Crick might sneak into the ten, too. I miss Jorge Bucardo. I haven’t heard anything on his health this year.
Ask me about my blog.
Question(s)
1. How quickly would Duvall have to move next season to become “age-appropriate?” Or is he already there? He’ll turn 23 early next season.
2. When looking at average ages for leagues, should I assume that number is inflated by older non-prospects and hack off a year or two to get to the average age of viable prospects?
by BestHyperboleEver on Sep 2, 2011 8:48 AM PDT up reply actions
1. Duvall is about a year behind where he should be to be considered age-appropriate. He really should have been playing in the Cal League this year, but he caught the Giants by surprise with his power explosion this year. If he does really well in the first 3 months in SJ next year then I could see him getting a mid-season promo to Richmond, where he would be solidly age-appropriate. Assuming that Chris Dominguez gets sent to Fresno next year then there really is nobody blocking Duvall from taking over the 3B spot in Richmond anytime next year.
2. Yes, but I wouldn’t back the average age off by more than a year (at most).
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
He’s currently the third youngest player in the league.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
Wow
That really puts that in perspective.
Gigante. Campeón. Pumpkin. Andrés Torres.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
How much does Chris/Brute's evaluation of his defense and lack of effort affect your evaluation of him?
Not at all?
It definitely affects my opinion, I think. If substantiated by more scouts, eyewitnesses, or coaches, it would be a pretty big negative. As is, it’s a cause for concern and knocks him down a bit in my evaluations.
I’m not Chris (well, not that Chris), or Roger, but it doesn’t bother me in the slightest. Sometimes players have off days and it’s not impossible to catch a guy on a bad game. I think his defense still profiles as plus, and until I hear otherwise from other sources, I’m going to believe his defense is good.
Ask me about my blog.
The thing is the minors , when used properly, does one important unglamorous thing it gives a player to chance to “even out his game”, to have enough repetitions that his bad games happen less frequently as he climbs the ladder even has the level of competition gets better ( the chance to look dumb increases).
A current good example of this might Crawford. I love his defense skills but it is currently just too inconsistence for a MLB that thinks it is contending. The injury starting the season differently didn’t help things. I would have preferred the Giants played him over most of the others they had at SS but I can understand why they were looking at other options. (Let us leave the way they chose those options alone for now. To me Crawford is another Interesting choice the front office has to make this winter. I hope they don’t Torrealba it.)
A current good example of this might Crawford. I love his defense but it is currently just too inconstistance for a MLB that thinks it is contending.The Injury starting teh season differntly didn’t help things.
The Giants are 2010 World Series Champs. … And in other news the forecast calls for a rain of toads, heavy at times, with moderate to strong swarms of locust and a high likelihood of a world quake. Details at 11.
encouraging stat, at least I think so :)
Brett Pill has had 9 Sac Flies each year for the past 4 years…
I don’t know shit about predicting major league success from minor league stats so if I’m way off base, feel free to let me have it
I was just thinking how it might demonstrate good situational hitting ability
There were many times this year that a simple Sac Fly could made the difference in a game
I’m just sayin’
As a general rule any stat which is dependent on the performance of other players is poorly indicative/predictive of skill.
In other words, what you’d probably need to look for is the number of times he’s come to bat with less than two outs and a runner on third, and the number times that runner has scored on a fly ball, and whether that number is larger than you’d expect given his fly ball rates. Then you’d have to get a big enough sample to figure out if it’s flukey data or not, which is probably the hardest part. Or you could scout him for a year or two and determine if he changes his approach in those situations. Either way, sac flies as a stat doesn’t tell you much.
I’m in a psychology grad program which means writing tons of research papers. One of the side effects of writing research papers is a nerd-level curiosity/interest in factors that increase risk or decrease risk for a variety of mental disorders.
After spending time on this site, I’ve become fascinated with the science of identifying major league talent in the minor leagues. So, having a scientific mind is both a curse and a blessing, methinks. ; )
He made 36 outs?!
Get him to the majors, stat!
Gigante. Campeón. Pumpkin. Andrés Torres.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
Sounds like Burris, Gillaspie, Joaquin and Crawford have been called up to the big club per Twitter info. Crawford’s fiancee confirmed his call up, and someone who I think works for the Grizzlies gave info on the others.
@legaleagle88
Giants Baseball: Why Not?
I thought Nate Schierholtz was cool before it was cool to think Nate Schierholtz was cool.
What do you mean?
@legaleagle88
Giants Baseball: Why Not?
I thought Nate Schierholtz was cool before it was cool to think Nate Schierholtz was cool.
by kdl on Sep 2, 2011 9:19 AM PDT up reply actions
Burrell was on the 40 man roster previously, so DFAing Tejada/rowand gets them to 39; do you know if they filled the roster to 40?
Pill?
@legaleagle88
Giants Baseball: Why Not?
I thought Nate Schierholtz was cool before it was cool to think Nate Schierholtz was cool.
by kdl on Sep 2, 2011 9:24 AM PDT up reply actions
Wasn’t Burrell on the 60 day?
@legaleagle88
Giants Baseball: Why Not?
I thought Nate Schierholtz was cool before it was cool to think Nate Schierholtz was cool.
by kdl on Sep 2, 2011 9:24 AM PDT up reply actions
Nope. I am wrong all over the place. I don’t know.
@legaleagle88
Giants Baseball: Why Not?
I thought Nate Schierholtz was cool before it was cool to think Nate Schierholtz was cool.
by kdl on Sep 2, 2011 9:25 AM PDT up reply actions
I believe they were at 40, they subtracted those two non contributors
and added Pill. Still one spot left, perhaps for Marc Kroon.
I think Baggs or Schulman thought that Kroon might be a candidate, just for his story (he’s not that good). Maybe Justin Christian, a 31 year old journeyman OF who has had a decent season in AAA. Maybe Tyler Graham based on his stolen bases?
@legaleagle88
Giants Baseball: Why Not?
I thought Nate Schierholtz was cool before it was cool to think Nate Schierholtz was cool.
by kdl on Sep 2, 2011 9:34 AM PDT up reply actions
Peguero!!
crossing my fingers it’s this kid
He’s already on the 40 man, though.
@legaleagle88
Giants Baseball: Why Not?
I thought Nate Schierholtz was cool before it was cool to think Nate Schierholtz was cool.
by kdl on Sep 2, 2011 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions
Bill Hall
I could see Kroon, but I think they need bats worse than relievers.
And if you want a worse bat… Hall’s your man!
buh dump bah
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
i think its Waldis
don’t believe he was on the 40-man and now he is…
by repeat_in_2011 on Sep 2, 2011 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Oooh you might be right.
I thought he had been added earlier, but it looks like not. Well, the Giants are prepared for any number of blowouts now, so there’s that.
He was added earlier. Awhile ago, they took Jose Casilla off the 40 man to put Waldis on, because Waldis was at a point where he could opt out of his contract.
There’s still an extra spot. I counted.
@legaleagle88
Giants Baseball: Why Not?
I thought Nate Schierholtz was cool before it was cool to think Nate Schierholtz was cool.
by kdl on Sep 2, 2011 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions
i’m not sure now though…i count 41 listed now but Posey and Freddie Sanchez are on the 60-day DL so maybe we’re still at 39?
thing was i though we had that situation around end of June or July where Waldis could declare himself a FA if they didn’t add him to the 40-man and then nothing happened and he still remained with Fresno….
by repeat_in_2011 on Sep 2, 2011 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Guys on the 60 day DL do not count toward 40 man roster.
@legaleagle88
Giants Baseball: Why Not?
I thought Nate Schierholtz was cool before it was cool to think Nate Schierholtz was cool.
by kdl on Sep 2, 2011 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions
I think we just had the date wrong because when they dropped Casilla from the 40 man and added Joaquin that was exactly the reason given for it (that was early in August I think)
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
SJ Giants
They tied the all-time franchise record for most road wins in a single season last night. They finished up with a road record of 46-24. The next best road record in the league is only 34-32.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
Their overall record is 89-47. Not too shabby.
I hope their road success translates in the playoffs.
@legaleagle88
Giants Baseball: Why Not?
I thought Nate Schierholtz was cool before it was cool to think Nate Schierholtz was cool.
by kdl on Sep 2, 2011 9:27 AM PDT up reply actions
Gary Brown is on BA's prospect hot sheet
No. 5 GARY BROWN, CF
GIANTS
Team: high Class A San Jose (California)
Age: 21
Why He’s Here: .448/.529/.655 (13-for-29), 7 R, 4 2B, 1 3B, 4 RBIs, 5 BB, 3 SO, 3-for-5 SB
The Scoop: At this point, it’s clear that Brown is ready for Double-A, as he’s blitzed through the Cal League with an advanced hit tool and top-scale speed. Hitting .338/.407/.515 with 50 stolen bases, the 2010 first-round pick has lived up to or exceeded expectations at the plate while playing premium defense in center field, earning physical and skill set comparisons to Angels center fielder Peter Bourjos
Twitter Blog (Infrequently Updated)
Writing about the MLB Draft at MLBBonusBaby
So
Villalona’s coming back to the org? Where would the prospect raters put him in the system? Top 30? Top 20?
He’s still only 21!
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Sep 3, 2011 8:54 AM PDT reply actions
Hard to rank him when he hasn’t really played or been seen by scouts in as long as he has.
Apparently Waldis Joaquin said that he saw Villalona this past offseason, and he had shed about 20 pounds and was trying to keep practicing to keep his skills sharp.
I think a better question is: where do they put him? San Jose, where he was? Augusta (or even as low as instructional league) to get back into the swing of things, so to speak?
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