minor lines, 8/25/11
by steve S on Aug 25, 2011 10:56 PM PDT
in They Might Be Giants
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PrintThursday super highlight from the Giants' farm: Gary Brown homered twice and doubled twice among five hits. Normal highlights include Francisco Peguero's four hits and Taylor Rogers allowing just 1 ER in 6.0 IP. Also notable, Cristian Paulino had five hits.
AAA: Fresno defeated Sacramento 7-4
(after leading 6-0 entering the 4th inning)
Fresno: LF Edgar Gonzalez: 2 for 4, 2 2B, SO
Fresno: C Max Ramirez: 1 for 4, HR
Sacramento: CF Jermaine Mitchell: 3 for 4, 2B
Fresno: SP Shane Loux: 8.0 IP, 8 H, 4 R, 4 ER, 1 BB, 5 K--1 HB, 1 WP
On a day when his younger brother homered twice, Edgar doubled twice, giving him 29 doubles this year. Ramirez led off the 6th inning with his 10th PCL HR. The Athletics' 26-year-old Mitchell has enjoyed a breakthrough year, beginning with an OPS over 1.000 in 304 AB in the Texas League and now an OPS over .800 through nearly 200 AB in the PCL.
Loux had one of his longest start of the year with 8.0 IP. He threw 103 pitches (67 strikes).
AA: Richmond defeated Akron 4-3
Richmond: CF Darren Ford: 2 for 5, SO
Richmond: DH Francisco Peguero: 4 for 5, SO
Richmond: SP Chuck Lofgren: 5.0 IP, 3 H, 1 R, 1 ER, 4 BB, 4 K--1 HB, 1 E
Richmond: RP Heath Hembree: 1.1 IP, 1 H, 2 BB, 1 K--1 IBB
Peguero had his third multi-hit game in his last four games, raising his AVG to .313. Ford was one of two other Flying Squirrels with two hits.
Lofgren allowed just 1 ER despite having his second straight start with 4 BB. He continues to walk too many with a BB/IP above 0.50 in his seven Eastern League starts. Hembree retired just three of his six batters but got his 16th save as a Squirrel and his 37th save of the year.
A+: San Jose defeated Stockton 11-5
San Jose: CF Gary Brown: 5 for 5, 2 HR, 2 2B
San Jose: SS Ehire Adrianza: 3 for 5, 2 2B
San Jose: 1B Alex Burg: 2 for 3, 2 2B, SF
San Jose: SP Tommy Vessella: 4.2 IP, 5 H, 4 R, 4 ER, 7 BB, 0 K--1 WP
Brown had perhaps the best line of any Giants minor league hitter this year with 2 HRs and 2 doubles among five hits. His 11th and 12th HRs came leading off the 1st and 6th innings. Adrianza and Burg also had a couple doubles each.
In contrast to Brown, Vessella had the worst K/BB line of any Giants minor league pitcher this year. Over half his batters reached base.
A-: Augusta defeated Kannapolis 2-1
Augusta: CF Chris Lofton: 1 for 2, 2 BB, CS
Augusta: SS Robert Haney: 3 for 4
Augusta: SP Taylor Rogers: 6.0 IP, 2 H, 1 R, 1 ER, 2 BB, 5 K--2 HB, 1 WP, 1 E
Augusta: RP Seth Rosin: 1.0 IP, 1 K
Batting in the top two spots in the GreenJackets' lineup, both Lofton and Haney reached base three times. Both hitters have an AVG close to .250.
Rogers further improved his ERA, which is second best in the 16-team Sally League, to 2.84. In his last four starts, he has allowed just 14 H in 27.0 IP, lowering his BAA to .231. Rosin pitched a perfect 8th inning.
ssA: Salem-Keizer lost to Boise 7-4
Salem-Keizer: DH Mike Murray: 3 for 4, 2 2B, BB
Salem-Keizer: 1B Ben Thomas: 2 for 3, 2B, BB
Salem-Keizer: SP Cameron Lamb: 5.0 IP, 7 H, 5 R, 5 ER, 2 BB, 8 K
Murray, who had been hitting less than .250 in August, had three hits, reclaiming the team lead in AVG at .341. Thomas also reached base three times.
Making his fourteenth start, Lamb had a season-high 8 K but also allowed 5 ER. His ERA climbed back above 5.50.
R: Giants defeated Cubs 17-15 (12 innings)
Scottsdale: C Eric Sim: 3 for 3, 3B
Scottsdale: 2B Cristian Paulino: 5 for 6, 3 2B, BB (IBB), 2 SB
Scottsdale: SP Joan Gregorio: 2.2 IP, 7 H, 2 R, 2 ER, 0 BB, 3 K
Scottsdale: RP Kyle Crick: 1.0 IP, 2 BB, 1 K
Paulino had five hits to raise his AVG to .279. He doubled his doubles total from three to six. Sim hit safely in each of his plate appearances.
Gregorio had perhaps his shortest start of the year, allowing a season-high 7 H. Crick walked two of his four batters in a scoreless 5th inning. Over his last five appearances, he has 8 BB in 4.0 IP.
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I was there! I didn’t even realize who I was watching until his second homer. He’s got some speed too — his fifth hit was an infield single.
He’s probably the fastest guy in our system.
There's a First for Everything:
Edgar Renteria, The First World Series MVP in Giants History.
would love to see him and Ford in a race
by 49erEmpire on Aug 25, 2011 11:26 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
And Tyler Graham who quietly has 56 stolen bases in his 2011 PCL Season
I'm a Giants Fan, but I'll always be rooting for Matt Downs
Adopted Son:Dan Burkhart , Future Backup To Buster Posey.
Or Jesus Galindo
Who has 42 in only 240 PAs, and is lightning fast.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
Brown needs to be called up now. Altuve played most of his games in single a this year along side Brown in the California League. Now he’s tearing it up with the powerful Houston Astros.
Not this
Adoptive father of Caleb Hous.... hous... housyourdaddy?
by OmahaGiants on Aug 25, 2011 11:38 PM PDT up reply actions 6 recs
+1
I feel prickishly demanding!
I couldn't be prouder of my recent adoptee - Tim Lincecum's dealer. He provides the secret fuel behind both Cy Youngs. Also, he taught Timmy the change-up.
by giantsfansince1981 on Aug 26, 2011 9:39 AM PDT up reply actions
that's a great point
wtf is brown still doing in single a
Peguero would be a travesty in the majors this year
You think Rowand looks like shit…
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, future CF for the World Champion San Francisco Giants.
"And besides, if I wanted to participate in a mindless patriotic ritual where my voice isn’t really heard, I would vote." - Chris Marcil
Seriously
I think Rowand’s K/BB numbers are better than what Peguero would do. His walk rate is actually higher than Peguero’s is in AA (though his K rate is substantially higher). But with a jump of two levels I don’t see how Pegs doesn’t strike out more.
Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)
Of course, let's forget that:
• Peguero would be more effective when he does make contact.
• Peguero has a ton more speed than Rowand (Albeit limited this season after knee surgery).
• Peguero has a ton more range than Rowand.
I’m not saying bring him up now, and I agree that discipline is what he needs to work on, but this hate-on for those who like Peguero a lot is getting ridiculous.
"The knowledge of the game is inversely proportional to the price of the seat." ---Bill Veeck. •Read My Blarrrgh...er, um....Comic. That doesn't really come across so well when said sarcastically. The Lunatic Fringe•
by BruteSentiment on Aug 26, 2011 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions
The “hate-on” is based on what a terrible idea it would be to bring him up now, as many are clamoring for, as opposed to a “hate-on” for him as a prospect. I think he’s the no. 3 prospect in the system with good upside who would probably suck worse than Rowand in the big leagues this year.
Well, he did have a surprisingly good ML projection at the beginning of the season — better than just about anyone else in our minor leagues. And he’s had a good year and will probably continue getting better. So….
"When the Giants call up a 21-year-old Venezuelan catcher who started the year in San Jose, was hitting well with poor plate discipline, but wasn't on Baseball America's preseason list of the organization's 30 best prospects, only good things can happen."
Congratulations, Hector!
Or he could MLE his way to a .260 OBP. His BB% in the Eastern League is 2.9. We need people to get on base at this stage in the game.
that would be better than Rowand
I think reasonable minds can disagree on bringing him up but I think everyone can agree that Rowand is a freaking albatross.
but this hate-on for those who like Peguero a lot is getting ridiculous.
Where, in any of those comments, did anyone take a personal shot at someone who likes Peguero? I don’t see it. Maybe you’re referring to something else?
It is completely reasonable to believe that there are concerns about Peguero, especially his ability (or lack thereof) to take walks. I don’t see where stating that means you’re “hating on” anyone who has a different opinion.
@legaleagle88
Giants Baseball: Why Not?
I thought Nate Schierholtz was cool before it was cool to think Nate Schierholtz was cool.
Wow, amazing how much people are underestimating how big a jump it is from A or AA ball to the big leagues. They all have a shot at being very good big leaguers. Soon, but definitely not yet.
I would distinguish between AA and A+
A guy who is dominating in AA (at a reasonable age) has a decent chance to do well in the majors. Normally only the best prospects even make it that far. You can’t say that about A+. Typically people say that the jump from A+ to AA is the biggest jump a player faces other than from AAA to the majors.
That said, I don’t consider what Peguero is doing in Richmond “dominating.” His line this season is, for comparison, significantly worse than what Freddy Sanchez did as a 23-year-old in the Eastern League. And Frankie Pegs is not a middle infielder.
I agree. It CAN happen that a guy killing Advanced A will succeed, but really unlikely. AA is a better indicator, but Peguero is not dominating there, as you point out; he may not even be AAA ready, a 110 wRC+ does not scream for a promotion. He certainly has a shot to be a good big leaguer, but not until late next year at least. Brown, I would not be surprised to see go from A+ to AAA like Posey did, or make the jump from AA to MLB next year if he does well, though still not until after the All Star break sometime. It would be sadistic to call him up now just to watch him be overmatched.
So that’s 1.5 reasons why Peguero might be a better hitter than Rowand. And I would guess that for the most part speed=range (first step and routes matter, but speed trumps all of it), so that’s really only two reasons why Peguero would be better.
Peguero might be more effective when he makes contact; his AA ISO is about 40 points higher than Rowand’s, and he’s quick. OTOH, the majors are not AA and he would be expected to hit worse in the majors, bringing the ISO much closer (not that it’s very far to begin with), and with superior defensive play and better fields Peguero’s speed will be mitigated more than in AA.
The only thing Peguero really has on Rowand is defense and price. I don’t think he would be as good offensively, much less better.
Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)
Bill Hall is DESTROYING AAA pitching right now. How do people not realize how big a difference it is?
Torres has a 139 wRC+ at AAA. He is destroying it. Pat Burrell has a 170 wRC+ at A+. He is destroying it.
My point is, developmental leagues can never truly gauge how successful an individual player will be. Rather, it’s really the ability of the player to adapt to the different playing environment and talent. Some players can do it and others can’t. Some guys are mediocre in AAA, but end up being great players.
My point is people massively overestimate Peguero’s AA performance, Brown’s A+ performance and Pill’s AAA performance and think they can help the club THIS YEAR.
I like Peguero because he was able to adjust. If you recall when he was promoted him and Dominguez were tearing it up for a few weeks, then they both dipped. However, Peguero was able to adjust. Do you think Surkamp will be effective against major league hitters? He’s pitching against AA batters, yet everyone want him promoted. As for Pill, I go see Fresno games when they’re here in Vegas and I don’t really care for him either way.
Surkamp’s numbers in AA have been much more impressive than Peguero’s. He has dominated, and kept his K-rate high, which was the big worry. He could probably be effective right now, though not dominant. He could be very good next year. Peguero might be a good player, but not yet. He needs at least another half season in the minors, more likely a full season (meaning the remainder of this one and say half a season next year) before he is likely to contribute at a league average level.
Because there's nothing to dislike about Surkamp
Unless you’re a fastball velocity junkie. But league-average for a LHP is high-80’s, and that’s where Surkamp throws. OTOH, there’s only a few things to like about Peguero’s season so far.
Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)
Actually, Rowand still seems to be a very good defensive CF.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
UZR does like him
And has for the past three seasons. Peguero does have quite a good defensive reputation, though, and I think I’d take his youth over Rowand. It is a lot closer than I made it sound.
Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)
Wait...
…wasn’t the whole side of your debate on Adrianza is that he’s great on defense, and the offense is just a cherry on top?
Shortstop and Center Field are both defensive priority positions.
"The knowledge of the game is inversely proportional to the price of the seat." ---Bill Veeck. •Read My Blarrrgh...er, um....Comic. That doesn't really come across so well when said sarcastically. The Lunatic Fringe•
by BruteSentiment on Aug 26, 2011 9:24 PM PDT up reply actions
OT: But in the what world are you living in, what is with all these asides we’re getting lately that Rowand is all pissed off about his playing time and can’t stand Bochy. How fucking clueless do you need to be to not understand that you’re no longer a capable major league starter, Aaron! I am really sick of his tired act.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
What?
Ro is pissed? Where are you hearing that?
That’s great news! I assumed the only reason they keep him around, besides the salary, is because he is gritty, hard-working, team player, etc.
If he is giving Bochy static, his value as a “team” guy is done, we could finally be closing in on DFA time! The party around here would rival the World Series.
by Sgt. Dingleberry on Aug 26, 2011 6:10 AM PDT up reply actions
This was my first thought.
"Don't trust anyone under the age of 30" - Brian Sabean
by Smotheredinhugs on Aug 26, 2011 7:20 AM PDT up reply actions
Nevermind
Just saw Baggs’ post. I am really confused as to what Ro could possibly be pissed about. It’s been time to DFA him for a while now, now, it is really time to DFA his ass.
by Sgt. Dingleberry on Aug 26, 2011 6:23 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, Baggs (and Schulman’s story, too) weren’t the first one either. Kruk has mentioned twice in the last week or so that Rowand hasn’t been happy with his playing time. If it’s bubbling out into the public you gotta figure that it’s reaching some kind of event horizon in the clubhouse.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
The thing is that it would be easy to DFA the complainers Baggs mentioned, because they’ve contributed nothing. Rowand and Tejeda unhappy? You think the Giants are happy with what they’ve gotten from those two for the money they’ve paid them? You think the fans are happy?
Buster Posey: still better than Eli and Stewart, even with a broken ankle.
Tejada could and should be DFA’d right now. The money has been spent and the Giants would benefit from him being off the roster.
The " Bat Waggler" has too much money remaining to DFA. Imagine if Rowand is removed in some manner à la Russ Ortiz and picked up by a team in the NL West. Dude would probably run through a concrete wall to get payback on the Giants. The Giants are going to have to eat $8 to $10M of that turds 2012 salary to get him out of here.
I'm a Giants Fan, but I'll always be rooting for Matt Downs
Adopted Son:Dan Burkhart , Future Backup To Buster Posey.
we should HOPE the Diamondbacks would pick him up.
"There was no torture in the end. Only rapture." - Mike Krukow
2010 Giants: World Series Champs
"Orlando before Zod" doesn't have the same nice ring to it.
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Aug 26, 2011 8:46 AM PDT up reply actions
LOL
/good clubhouse guy
I'm a Giants Fan, but I'll always be rooting for Matt Downs
Adopted Son:Dan Burkhart , Future Backup To Buster Posey.
Seriously, screw that guy with a metal bat that has spikes on the tip
he can go run through 10 walls for all I freaking care.
If he’s so damn upset about his playing time why doesn’t he put his money where his big mouth is and walk away from the money in exchange for an unconditional release? How about negotiate a settlement and walk away?
Hell with him, he freaking sucks. And it’s not like I’m defending Bork here either, because I cannot stand that guy either. But Aaron Rowand is not a replacement level MLB player right now.
There were similar rumblings at the end of last season too
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, future CF for the World Champion San Francisco Giants.
"And besides, if I wanted to participate in a mindless patriotic ritual where my voice isn’t really heard, I would vote." - Chris Marcil
I would trot them out like this: Brown, Peguero, Beltran, Sandavol, Belt, Keppinger, Crawford, Sanchez and Pitcher.
Let's try not to fuck up all our prospects by rushing them
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, future CF for the World Champion San Francisco Giants.
"And besides, if I wanted to participate in a mindless patriotic ritual where my voice isn’t really heard, I would vote." - Chris Marcil
by marcello on Aug 26, 2011 12:39 AM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
WIN NOW!
Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)
Nah, it’s September baseball for those teams that aren’t in contention. They bring up some young guys, see what they can do and then start them in the minors the following year. The thing with the Giants is that it’s their pitching staff that is eventually going to pull them through, so if you can manage a run or two more than they’re getting now then it’s a plus. Have fun with this kids and see if they can get the team to the post season.
Not all prospects are created equal
Specifically, those prospects had played well at higher levels. They were also two of the top rated prospects in the game (although some of the shine had worn off Bumgarner at that time). Peguero and Sanchez are nothing like Posey and Bumgarner, and Brown is currently doing well, but in A+. That’s a big jump to the majors that pretty much no prospects make.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, future CF for the World Champion San Francisco Giants.
"And besides, if I wanted to participate in a mindless patriotic ritual where my voice isn’t really heard, I would vote." - Chris Marcil
by marcello on Aug 26, 2011 12:52 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Altuve was playing well in A+ ball, played a few weeks in 2A and now his effective in with the Astros. Brown played college ball, so he isn’t a high school draft, he is a top rated prospect. The truth is neither you or I are soothsayers, which means we don’t know what will happen. Bring them up in September, let them play a few games and see if they ignite a flame. That’s all!
That's something you have the freedom to do
When you’re the Astros. You don’t just throw a prospect who hasn’t played a single game in the upper minors into a major league lineup when you’re in contention. The talent level in the majors is much, much higher than the lower minors. You could end up putting Brown in a discouraging situation where he gets his ass handed to him by ML pitching because he’s been feasting on A-ball pitching all year.
Well i do think the Giants have to make some decisions before the Aug. 31st deadline – I think that Crawford, Peguero maybe even Sanchez should be on the active roster by then – I mean the Giants are desperate. They need offense, defense and energy. I’ll take the risk with players who are on the 40 man roster, If you’re not prepared to use them, they shouldn’t be on the it in the first place.
"Don't trust anyone under the age of 30" - Brian Sabean
by Smotheredinhugs on Aug 26, 2011 7:43 AM PDT up reply actions
Brown is in A ball
I think a callup is unlikely. Let him start in AAA next year and be ready for a callup if he does well.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Aug 26, 2011 9:11 AM PDT up reply actions
.305/.319/.382? That’s cleanup on the Giants!
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Aug 26, 2011 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Every time I see Brown put up a huge night, my mind jumps back to this BCB chart and I smile
Psycho killer, qu'est-ce que c'est?
Am I missing something, where is Brown on the chart?
by IAin'tHavingIt on Aug 26, 2011 12:31 AM PDT up reply actions
Basically
It’s showing a bunch of combinations of defense and offense. If you think he’ll be a +5 defender with a .330 wOBA, he’d be a 2.6 win player – a bit above average.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, future CF for the World Champion San Francisco Giants.
"And besides, if I wanted to participate in a mindless patriotic ritual where my voice isn’t really heard, I would vote." - Chris Marcil
i'm not sure i understand this
what is it?
by you'vejustbeenCAINED on Aug 26, 2011 12:31 AM PDT up reply actions
ok
i understand what it is now, but i can’t figure out what his wOBP is. it’s not one of that stats listed on most sites i look at…
by you'vejustbeenCAINED on Aug 26, 2011 12:37 AM PDT up reply actions
and found it
now i can look at this graph and just laugh with glee :]
by you'vejustbeenCAINED on Aug 26, 2011 12:38 AM PDT up reply actions
FanGraphs
The answer is almost always either FanGraphs or Baseball Reference.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, future CF for the World Champion San Francisco Giants.
"And besides, if I wanted to participate in a mindless patriotic ritual where my voice isn’t really heard, I would vote." - Chris Marcil
yup
i tried baseball reference first and didn’t get it. fangraphs did though
by you'vejustbeenCAINED on Aug 26, 2011 12:43 AM PDT up reply actions
FanGraphs..Baseball Nerd Porn
I'm a Giants Fan, but I'll always be rooting for Matt Downs
Adopted Son:Dan Burkhart , Future Backup To Buster Posey.
For the people who don't get it
It’s basically a range of how well Brown can/has to field and hit to produce certain WAR marks. For example, if he’s a +2.5 defender (i.e. slightly above-average) and a .320 wOBA hitter (about average) he would produce 1.8 WAR, which is a league average player.
The fun thing about it is that his defense is already considered major-league ready and probably plus, with even more room for improvement. He’s an incredibly fast player which gives him the most valuable asset an outfielder can have, and he’s got a solid to above-average arm as well. So he’s probably at least a +10 defender in the majors, which means he only has to produce a .310 wOBA – easily done with his speed as long as he’s not hitting every ball in the air – to be a league-average player. For the back of the first round, that’s fantastic. And if he can hit well, he goes from average to All-Star pretty quickly.
Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)
At least +10 is unrealistic
That makes him basically the best CF in the game hands down, non-Gutierrez division. +5 is reasonable.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, future CF for the World Champion San Francisco Giants.
"And besides, if I wanted to participate in a mindless patriotic ritual where my voice isn’t really heard, I would vote." - Chris Marcil
Agreed
I was going to ask: Where do people actually think Brown will land on this chart? Personally I go with +5 defense, .320 wOBA, sort of a Juan Pierre type. I still need to see more walks to be convinced that better is likely.
He’s going to have more power than Pierre though, and that’s weighed into wOBA.
"Don't trust anyone under the age of 30" - Brian Sabean
by Smotheredinhugs on Aug 26, 2011 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions
This is also the reason why Torres is still an awesome CF.
He’s no longer a 6.6 WAR CF like 2010, but he’s still in the green.
Is there any way to find out how many bunt base hits Brown has?
The amazing thing (to me) is that I’ve never seen him try to bunt for a base hit. Yes, I’ve only been to 7-8 games this year, but I can’t remember Brown ever squaring up to drop a bunt down and take advantage of his speed.
"This is almost certainly a terrible idea. But I won't know for certain until I've actually done it." — Jez from Peep Show
by Giant Fan in Singapore on Aug 26, 2011 8:23 AM PDT up reply actions
i posted this in one of the threads this morning
so maybe you all already saw it. and i know he didn’t pitch today. but reading it and re-reading it makes me giddy. so i’m going to re-post here:
Surkamp (LHP), Peacock (RHP) named EL’s best
Richmond’s Eric Surkamp earned top honors as a lefty starter, going 10-4 with 165 strikeouts and a 2.02 ERA in his first 23 games for the Flying Squirrels. The two-time Pitcher of the Week has a chance to become the first Eastern League pitcher in over 30 years to win the pitching equivalent of the Triple Crown and is tied for third in the league in wins. He also leads the league in WHIP (1.08), is ranked second in batting average against (.213) and is tied for second in innings pitched (142 1/3). Eric was named the Eastern League Pitcher of the Week for the periods of May 2nd-8th and July 4th-10th, was selected as a member of the Western Division roster for the 2011 Northeast Delta Dental Eastern League All-Star Game and was rated by Baseball America as having the "Best Breaking Pitch" and "Best Changeup" in the Eastern League this season.
by you'vejustbeenCAINED on Aug 26, 2011 12:46 AM PDT reply actions
and the reason it takes 30 years is because...
most prospects get promoted before then.
Should we be worried about Brown's HBPs?
21 HBPs in 120 games seems fluky. Without those HBPs, his OBP drops all the way from .390+ down to the .360 range.
Can he sustain this level of plunking?
Subtract Craig Biggio’s 285 HBP and his OBP is only .337 instead of .363. It’s a skill that’s pretty fluid.
"Don't trust anyone under the age of 30" - Brian Sabean
by Smotheredinhugs on Aug 26, 2011 7:52 AM PDT up reply actions
TAKE AWAY TIMS 1096 K’S AND HE’S SUCKS!
Kickham where it hurts
by say hey nation on Aug 26, 2011 8:07 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, getting HBP is a sustainable skill
Brown did it all through college too.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, future CF for the World Champion San Francisco Giants.
"And besides, if I wanted to participate in a mindless patriotic ritual where my voice isn’t really heard, I would vote." - Chris Marcil
Well, it is and it isn't
One would assume that the number of HBP would decline as he faces competition that has better control.
Gigante. Campeón. Pumpkin. Andrés Torres.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
Well, OK, but comping a guy to the guy who is best at the thing that you're comping for is a bit much,
Gigante. Campeón. Pumpkin. Andrés Torres.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
But it's still a fluid skill....
he may get hit less than he did against lesser competition, but he’ll still get hit more than the average player. It’s really about where one stands in the batters box and how badly you want to get out of the way of a ball that will hit you.
"Don't trust anyone under the age of 30" - Brian Sabean
by Smotheredinhugs on Aug 26, 2011 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions
No, no. I just wanted people to check that guy out.
I mean, shit. Craaaaazy HBP.
by Grant Brisbee on Aug 27, 2011 9:50 AM PDT up reply actions
Getting hit by pitch is a skill
Or, at least, it’s repeatable. Presumably some combination of plate-crowding and (relative) inability to hit inside fastballs leads to getting hit a lot.
I’d say Gary Brown has had a pretty successful 1st year of pro ball. He slumped in June but has rebounded nicely since. And with 170 hits so far and 11 games left in the season he has slightly more than an outside chance of getting to the 200 hits in a season.
Entire AVG G AB H HR BB SO SB CS OBP SLG OPS April 0.333 23 96 32 1 10 14 17 6 0.418 0.427 0.845 May 0.397 28 121 48 4 9 19 13 6 0.453 0.612 1.064 June 0.202 23 99 20 1 7 18 3 2 0.266 0.313 0.579 July 0.343 26 105 36 2 9 10 9 0 0.417 0.514 0.931 August 0.37 21 92 34 4 5 9 5 3 0.431 0.652 1.084
Kickham where it hurts
Not to go all Pillapalooza here or anything, but he also has a fairly astonishing 72 RBIs on the season from his leadoff spot. Guess those guys down at the end of the SJ order are getting on base at a pretty decent clip.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
It’s really nice to watch SJ games and actually see some offense.
@legaleagle88
Giants Baseball: Why Not?
I thought Nate Schierholtz was cool before it was cool to think Nate Schierholtz was cool.
Dan Szymborski did a couple ZiPS projections for me by request
Gary Brown: 250/314/355
Brett Pill: 262/298/374
Gigante. Campeón. Pumpkin. Andrés Torres.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
Speaking of which, what is up with Baggs and Schulman stumping for Pill to be brought up lately? They honestly think that’s the answer?
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
They probably have whole articles written about Pill already, so it basically gives them a day off.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Aug 26, 2011 9:15 AM PDT up reply actions
If the question is who in the minors would be less of a waste of a roster spot than DeRosa or Tejada, then you bet Pill is the answer.
California Leaguers beware: Chris Gloor will strike you out faster than you can say "Quinnipiac", or he would have if he had pitched more than five innings this year before getting hurt...
by crazedcrustacean on Aug 26, 2011 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions
It’s the “Magic Pill” pun that is so enticing.
"Don't trust anyone under the age of 30" - Brian Sabean
by Smotheredinhugs on Aug 26, 2011 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions
Gary Brown: 250/314/355
I’ll take it! Them’s first basemen numbers.
by Grant Brisbee on Aug 26, 2011 9:30 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
It’s about what Austin Jackson’s done this year. With a little better defense, that’s about a league average player…which is impressive for a guy in A+.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, future CF for the World Champion San Francisco Giants.
"And besides, if I wanted to participate in a mindless patriotic ritual where my voice isn’t really heard, I would vote." - Chris Marcil
We need to ask for a Surkamp projection.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Aug 26, 2011 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions
FIRE UP THE ZiPS SIGNAL! SZYMBORSKI WE NEED YOU!
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Aug 26, 2011 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions
FWIW
Prior to the season he was projected to have a 4.20 FIP. Now that he’s pitched at AA and done better than he did in A+, I’d think that would go down a bit.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, future CF for the World Champion San Francisco Giants.
"And besides, if I wanted to participate in a mindless patriotic ritual where my voice isn’t really heard, I would vote." - Chris Marcil
I remember that - I asked for the projection
That’s what I’m thinking too.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Aug 26, 2011 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m just wondering HOW good.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Aug 26, 2011 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Out of curiosity where does Brown rank in overall prospect status? Not just the Giants but through out the league?
Kickham where it hurts
Top 50ish IIRC
Let me go pull up Keith Law’s last ranking.
Gigante. Campeón. Pumpkin. Andrés Torres.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
Hm. Law didn't include him on his pre season top 100, but that was before Brown's very nice season, so I dunno
I’d have to browse BPro or somewhere to get the info. Might later. Someone else could answer better I’m sure.
Gigante. Campeón. Pumpkin. Andrés Torres.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
He didn't make Law's top 50 mid-season update either
Gigante. Campeón. Pumpkin. Andrés Torres.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
Law hated the pick, and he needs to be convinced before he changes his mind. So if he does change his mind it will be a good thing.
Kickham where it hurts
by say hey nation on Aug 26, 2011 8:50 AM PDT up reply actions
Law hated the pick, and he needs to be convinced before he changes his mind.
That wil take a while.
I'm a Giants Fan, but I'll always be rooting for Matt Downs
Adopted Son:Dan Burkhart , Future Backup To Buster Posey.
He’ll privately admit he overlooked Brown when he makes his fourth All-Star Game in 2020.
Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)
But where would you put him?
Kickham where it hurts
by say hey nation on Aug 26, 2011 8:50 AM PDT up reply actions
#1 and rising!
"This is almost certainly a terrible idea. But I won't know for certain until I've actually done it." — Jez from Peep Show
by Giant Fan in Singapore on Aug 26, 2011 8:50 AM PDT up reply actions
My knowledge of the entirety of the minor leagues isn't great
But Brown has more than one red flag for me.
Gigante. Campeón. Pumpkin. Andrés Torres.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
BA’s midseason list had him at 33. Of course, lots of things change between then and now, in particular the signing of all the 2011 1st rounders, but also some prospect attrition and Brown’s own second half performance. But I wouldn’t be surprised to see him in the 30s next spring.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
KLaw also thinks that Brown isn’t having a remarkable season and is basically doing what a 1st rounder from college in A+ ball ‘should’ do (when it’s come up in chats etc). So it’ll probably take mashing in Richmond before he does.
Sundrendy!
I’m not sure he will go to Richmond. They may send him straight to AAA.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Aug 26, 2011 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Speedy plus defender at a hugely important defensive position who’s also second in the league in total bases while playing in the league’s least hitter friendly home environment is just what he “should do”? Man that’s a tough assessment (and by tough, I mean intransigent).
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
I wonder if Michael Choice or Christian Colon are in his top 100. Anyone know?
"Don't trust anyone under the age of 30" - Brian Sabean
by Smotheredinhugs on Aug 26, 2011 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions
I like him for what he is – plus run, plus glove, high contact, below-average power. Good player & a nice fit in SF. But a college player doing well in A-ball is doing what he’s supposed to be doing.
Gary Brown ((CA))
How close was I to the top 100? in the 110-120 range?
Klaw
(2:17 PM)
Below that. Not really a consideration.
Sundrendy!
Keith Law will never give Brown credit because he refuses to acknowledge he was wrong about him before the draft. Any ranking of Brown by KLaw is bound to biased and shouldn’t be taken seriously.
California Leaguers beware: Chris Gloor will strike you out faster than you can say "Quinnipiac", or he would have if he had pitched more than five innings this year before getting hurt...
by crazedcrustacean on Aug 26, 2011 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions
Really? You think Law is biased – more, say, than you are? If so, have you read the praise he’s heaped on guys like Brandon Belt, who weren’t highly rated before the draft?
The guy has strong opinions, and sometimes he’s wrong. But it’s not because of “bias.”
by Dan from NM on Aug 26, 2011 10:59 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
This
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, future CF for the World Champion San Francisco Giants.
"And besides, if I wanted to participate in a mindless patriotic ritual where my voice isn’t really heard, I would vote." - Chris Marcil
Late-season promos
Augusta just pulled into a tie for 1st place in the race for the 2nd-half division title. That means that the odds of Adam Duvall playing for SJ this season are almost zero.
On the other hand, S-K is 3 games out of a playoff spot with only 8 games to play, so the odds of Joe Panik getting promoted to SJ seem pretty high.
According to tweets, Susac, Oropesa and Osich are all in Scottsdale working out with the team so we could actually see them make their pro debuts any day now. I’m surprised that we haven’t seen at least Oropesa by now, because it doesn’t take much work to get ready to play 1B and to face the pitchers of the AZL.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
I doubt we’ll see Osich, and probably not Susac and Oropesa. The Giants don’t seem keen on a two-week pro debut, especially for pitchers.
And I wouldn’t say that Duvall’s chances are almost zero. The Giants have, in the past, brought people up for just the Championship Series when they’ve been overwhelming. Since the SAL playoffs are just two rounds, compared to California League’s three, there is a chance even if the GreenJackets go the distance.
"The knowledge of the game is inversely proportional to the price of the seat." ---Bill Veeck. •Read My Blarrrgh...er, um....Comic. That doesn't really come across so well when said sarcastically. The Lunatic Fringe•
by BruteSentiment on Aug 26, 2011 9:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Hey Gary Brown made #1 on the Prospect Hot Sheet! Can’t remember the last time a Giant did that, although i guess I gotta assume that Belt did at some point last year.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
Why He’s Here: .556/.571/1.037 (15-for-27), 2 HR, 3 2B, 2 3B, 9 R, 8 RBIs, 0 BB, 1 SO, 1-for-3 SB
The Scoop: “Some have labeled me as a singles hitter. I don’t know where they get that from,” Brown told a media outlet from his hometown of Diamond Barr, Calif. “I’ve always felt I’ve driven the ball gap to gap.”
The Giants 2010 first-rounder made good on his personal assessment yesterday, going 5-for-5 with a pair of homers (12), a pair of doubles (30), five runs scored and four RBIs. On the year, Brown has collected a similarly-wide array of extra-base hits. He leads the Cal League with 12 triples and 170 hits, and he ranks second with 102 runs and 260 total bases. He has fallen off the pace in the stolen base department, and High Desert’s Dan Carroll now holds a 55-47 advantage on Brown heading into the final week-plus of play.
Brown’s successful full-season debut includes a .331/.400/.507 batting line through 513 at-bats. He’ll play in the Cal League playoffs, where San Jose qualifies yet again with 13 wins more than No. 2 Rancho Cucamonga.
For Evan
From today’s Hot Sheet Chat:
Bryan (Palo Alto, CA): My question relates to a guy who made last weeks Hot Sheet, Tommy Joseph. The kid has been putting up pretty impressive offensive numbers in San Jose this year especially for being a catcher and he’s also one of the youngest players in HiA ball (and SJ isn’t quite the bandbox the rest of the league is). But what shocked me was that he was voted as the top defensive catcher in the Cal League since I thought he was an all bat guy? What are people saying about his projection and has he really elevated his prospect status this season? Thanks for taking the time to answer my question!
Matthew Eddy: The Cal League managers aren’t alone. We also have a scouting report that indicates that Joseph has major league starer-caliber defensive tools. And you have to love the power potential as well.
I assume that means to say “starter”, although “star-er” is a nice thought.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
Joseph's arm has always impressed me
I can’t comment on his footwork, but I was amazed to read accounts that he was a poor to average defender, when from every game I saw he looked great.
"This is almost certainly a terrible idea. But I won't know for certain until I've actually done it." — Jez from Peep Show
by Giant Fan in Singapore on Aug 26, 2011 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Maybe he was inconsistent
and the scouts happened to see him on the down days. Maybe since then he’s fixed that, and is now consistently good on D.
Several already posted in the other thread
but Surkamp is starting for the big club tomorrow.
Link?
Baggs doesn’t have it
Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)
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