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Did the giants seriously undervalue Jesus Guzman?

I will say that all the injuries that occurred to this giants team, this year, may skew one's view of what has transpired with this teams offense.   People were hoping to get a healthy Sandoval back, with a full season of Posey, and a repeat of a 2010 Huff, along with the sparkplugs of Freddie Sanchez, and Andres Torres at the top of the lineup.  We also had Mr. Clutch Ross is Boss for a full season, and Brandon Belt waiting in the wings to be the next Posey, and then some.   For 2 years we had Jesus Guzman in Fresno, a player whom the the giants always said could hit, but were worried that his fielding made him better suited to be a DH.   The Padres picked up Guzman.  They had a prospect first baseman in Rizzo, after trading away A-Gon.  But Rizzo's struggles has made Brandon Belt look like Ted Williams. In the interim, Guzman has been called up and so far, has been the second most productive hitter in the NL since the allstar break.  Sabes decided to keep the left handed hitting Huff who had a nice year in 2010 by awarding him with a two year 22 million dollar contract.  All the while he had Belt, and Guzman ready to go.  Lets look at the stats of the most productive hitter in the NL post allstar break,  Troy Tulo,  the second most productive hitter,  Jesus Guzman,  and  Aubrey Huff.  Huff has not been that bad since the allstar break but his stats compare unfavorably to Guzman.

 

                                               AB     R     H    2B    3B    HR   RBI    SB    CS    BB   SO    AVG   OBP     SLG   OPS

Tulo                                      100    15   41   13     0      5      23        2       1      13    21     410    470      690    1160

Guzman                                 78    16   30     8     0      4      25        4        0       6     13     385    429      641    1070

Huff                                         78     7    24     3     0      3        7         2        1       8     10     308    364      462      826

 

Of course the sample size is small, but Tulo has been known to have good second halfs.  Also if one takes into effect that many of Tulo's games are played in Denver, while half of Guzman's games are played in San Diego, possibly a worse hitters park than SF,  Guzman's numbers are impressive.   Tulo is a premium fielder, and obviously neither Huff nor Guzman are.   Just how bad is Guzman in the field?   Let us see how the rest of the year plays out.    Since he has  been inserted in the lineup, the run production for the Pads has gone up.   Huff seems to be keeping the status quo offense with the giants as they are scoring less runs per game than Tiger does the deed each day, and that is after rehab.   

 

The poll should have the word knew instead of new.   The poll should have the term paper bag, instead of paper box.


Poll
What should the giants have done for first base in the off season after winning the world series?
Reward Huff for his great year with the giants, panties included, and reward him with a lucrative contract.
13 votes
Give the job to Belt at the beginning of the season, and keep Guzman for backup at first and third.
31 votes
Sign Huff, give Belt a chance to make the roster, and shed the stonehanded Guzman
40 votes
Guzman could hit, the giants new it, but because he was going to be 27, he was not cool to be on the roster because he did not do well in his couple of AB's as a giant
9 votes
Should have kept Dontrelle Willis but turned him into a position player instead of a pitcher, because he is probably a better hitter than any of our starters who are still left standing.
18 votes
Make Mark Derosa our firstbaseman, because who needs guys who are healthy and can actually still hit their way out of a paper box.
2 votes
Trade Jonathan Sanchez for a batter who walks as often as Dirty walks opposing batters.
33 votes

146 votes | Poll has closed

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

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.388 BABIP

Guzman looked like he could always hit some.

Ask me about my blog.

by xanthan on Aug 11, 2011 5:25 AM PDT reply actions  

Also looked like he should DH some.

VAE PVTO DEVS FIO

by Bhaakon on Aug 11, 2011 7:44 AM PDT up reply actions  

so in conclusion

Troy Tulowitzki is better than Aubrey Huff?

Carter Jurica!
"Has anyone really been for even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?"

by GrahamCrakalaka on Aug 11, 2011 9:12 AM PDT reply actions  

literally

131 plate appearances

literally

by pbjsandwich on Aug 11, 2011 9:14 AM PDT reply actions  

My favorite option.

Guzman could hit, the giants new it, but because he was going to be 27, he was not cool to be on the roster because he did not do well in his couple of AB’s as a giant

He was not cool to be on the roster is such an awesome sentence. I also like that giant is lowercase

by Mrbasepaul on Aug 11, 2011 9:35 AM PDT reply actions  

The A's gave up on Jesus Guzman because he couldn't play defense

The Giants gave up on Jesus Guzman because he couldn’t play defense
The Padres are playing Jesus Guzman because he’s hella cheap. They’ll eventually give up on Jesus Guzman because he couldn’t play defense

Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
Kudos, You are a sick, sick man, but you are very good at it -- wcw

by jctGamer on Aug 11, 2011 11:01 AM PDT reply actions  

But until then

feel free to use him on your Pokemonz in deeper mixed leagues.

The greatest pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do.

by kiririn on Aug 12, 2011 2:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

He used to drop routine throws to first base! Still, he’s a better late inning option on your bench than anyone they have.

Buster Posey: still better than Eli and Stewart, even with a broken ankle.

by rxmeister on Aug 12, 2011 7:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

also

he is not that great offensively, performance in sss be damned

Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.

by Viliphied on Aug 12, 2011 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

No

They did not.

If my life is for rent, and I don't learn to buy, then I deserve nothing more than I get, 'cause nothing I have is truly mine. - Dido Armstrong

by Lyle on Aug 11, 2011 11:05 AM PDT reply actions  

The question now, is he more for real than Huff was for real last year?

Could Tony Gwynn’s high career BABIP be due to his ability to hit the
ball “Where they ain’t”. Is BABIP numbers all luck, or is there a certain
skillset in the ability to have and maintain a high BABIP? 388 BABIP is
usually not sustainable today, but tell that to Rodger’s Hornsby or Ted
Williams. Oh yea, for most of us, its not an option to communicate directly
with the dead and expect an answer. So how does one communicate
with the GIANTS’ offense?

by bradleybear on Aug 11, 2011 12:17 PM PDT reply actions  

but tell that to Rodger’s Hornsby or Ted
Williams.

I can’t. They are both dead.

Ask me about my blog.

by xanthan on Aug 11, 2011 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

TRY HARDER

2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller

by Johnny Disaster on Aug 11, 2011 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

I keep trying

but all I get is comments about what a dick Branch Rickey was.

I'm a Giants Fan, but I'll always be rooting for Matt Downs
Adopted Son:Dan Burkhart , Future Backup To Buster Posey.

by nvsfg on Aug 11, 2011 5:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

/actual laughter

2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller

by Johnny Disaster on Aug 11, 2011 5:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

What the? Ted Williams had a career .328 BABIP. It wasn’t even as high as .388 when he hit .406.

Once more, coming to you by proxy.

by howtheyscored on Aug 12, 2011 8:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

wow

27 strikeouts, 37 HR

Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.

by Viliphied on Aug 12, 2011 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions  

the homer thing is misleading in BABIP, because if he hit less homers, and still carried the same batting AVG his BABIP would be higher.

So bonds who hit balls where no man has gone before, like into the Cove, and could not be caught by anyone
playing on this planet loses all those 4 base hits when considering BABIP. Perhaps when a dinger goes longer than 450 feet or falls directly into the cove water, it should have its own transcendant number. Like some baseball Godly number that supercedes BABIP.

by bradleybear on Aug 12, 2011 11:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

BABIP

is a measure of luck. Any BABIP above .330 or so is completely unsustainable (over a career) and above .370 is pretty unsustainable even over a season.

Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.

by Viliphied on Aug 13, 2011 1:10 AM PDT up reply actions  

what is this i dont even

Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)

by quincy0191 on Aug 13, 2011 1:28 AM PDT up reply actions  

Isn’t that the point of BABIP? Like Viliphied said, it’s a measure of luck rather than greatness. It’s basically cutting out the best plate appearance (home runs) and worst ones (strikeouts), which is of course going to make both the stupendous and the horrendous hitters look more average. It’s like if a school threw out all A’s and F’s before calculating its students’ GPA’s: everyone would end up bunched within a point of 2.0.

VAE PVTO DEVS FIO

by Bhaakon on Aug 13, 2011 3:30 AM PDT up reply actions  

I am not sure

home runs are always a players “best plate appearances”.

Tatooing the ball, and hitting a frozen rope right to the center fielder in the deepest part of the park, to me is more of an impressive display of hitting skill than some of the not-especially-beautiful high fly balls I’ve seen clear the fence.

SF Giants' record in the eleven-year twenty-first century/Pac Bell era: five MVPs, two CYA, one ROY, the two highest single-season OPS of all time (and two of the other top eight), the single-season and all-time HR records, two NL Pennants, and ... one World Championship

by SnowLeopard on Aug 14, 2011 3:15 AM PDT up reply actions  

Aesthetics aside, a fair ball that the fielders can’t touch is a superior outcome to one which they can.

VAE PVTO DEVS FIO

by Bhaakon on Aug 14, 2011 7:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

actually

yeah BABIP can be influenced by a higher LD% and a hitters skill but a .388 BABIP for a non speedy hitter is just unheard of

i don’t know what you’re trying to say about huff though?

by pbjsandwich on Aug 11, 2011 12:25 PM PDT reply actions  

Ted Williams

never had a .388 BABIP in a full season in his career

Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.

by Viliphied on Aug 12, 2011 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions  

Where's my option?

Sign Lance Berkman to a 1 year deal, planning to call up Belt when he’s ready.

by Nivra on Aug 11, 2011 3:41 PM PDT reply actions  

He was uo with the Giants for a long cup of coffee and didn’t hit over .200. Can’t argue with his release.
 Can you imagine the uproar over not offering Huff a contract after last year? We could have kept Uribe and traded Freddie for a third rate pitcher cause Vogelsong was never going to come along.

Go Giants

by Gianni on Aug 12, 2011 6:26 AM PDT reply actions  

Rodger's Hornsby new!!

Rogers Hornsby just rolled over in his grave when he saw your spelling of his name.

Buster Posey: still better than Eli and Stewart, even with a broken ankle.

by rxmeister on Aug 12, 2011 7:25 AM PDT reply actions  

no. no they did not.

an OPS in the 900s for a 1B in the PCL is not that impressive.

Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.

by Viliphied on Aug 12, 2011 10:50 AM PDT reply actions  

hopefully Sabean doesn't get rid of Brad Eldred

Eldred is the next Guzman….i think….or maybe not….

by repeat_in_2011 on Aug 12, 2011 9:38 PM PDT reply actions  

90 PA

Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.

by Viliphied on Aug 13, 2011 1:10 AM PDT up reply actions  

Eugenio Velez

had a stretch in 2008 where he put up a .900 OPS over 70 PA. No one would argue that Velez is a good player.

Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.

by Viliphied on Aug 13, 2011 1:15 AM PDT up reply actions  

What?

The point is that in SSS looking like a great player is possible. Velez is a good example of a shitty player who looked good for 70 PA, which is exactly what Guzman is doing.

Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)

by quincy0191 on Aug 14, 2011 9:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

Don’t really care about Guzman, but have never and will never like the Huff signing. Either Huff or Rowand or both need to be dumped, one way or the other.

Proud father of Barry Bonds.

by Sabertooth on Aug 13, 2011 11:27 AM PDT reply actions  

Seems like as fine a place as any

to reiterate that Jesus hates the Rockies.

SF Giants' record in the eleven-year twenty-first century/Pac Bell era: five MVPs, two CYA, one ROY, the two highest single-season OPS of all time (and two of the other top eight), the single-season and all-time HR records, two NL Pennants, and ... one World Championship

by SnowLeopard on Aug 14, 2011 3:19 AM PDT reply actions  

Mark DeRosa and his "paper box"-trapped wrist got NO love until the (my) 118th vote?

Damn. That’s harsh.

PS: These are my two favorite GIS results for “paper box fap”

11 01 10
Veni Vidi Vixi

by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Aug 14, 2011 9:39 AM PDT reply actions  

It is August 18th tonight, and even though Guzman was out for a few days, he continues to rake.

He had enough RBI by the third inning. to win the game for the giants tonight. Giants lost 1-0 behind LIncecum.
Guzman had 2 RBI by the third inning. Can we summon Marichal out of retirement, he would hold the braves
runless for 16 innings to give his giants a chance to score that one run to get the victory.

by bradleybear on Aug 18, 2011 8:55 PM PDT reply actions  

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