minor lines, 7/6/11
by steve S on Jul 7, 2011 12:37 AM PDT
in They Might Be Giants
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PrintWednesday highlights from the Giants' farm: Conor Gillaspie homered twice, and Brandon Belt homered and singled.
AAA: Fresno defeated Sacramento 7-6
(after rallying for three runs in the 8th inning)
Fresno: SS Edgar Gonzalez: 1 for 4, HR
Fresno: RF Brandon Belt: 2 for 4, HR
Fresno: 3B Conor Gillaspie: 2 for 4, 2 HR, GiDP
Fresno: LF Thomas Neal: 3 for 4, 2B, SO
Sacramento: 2B Adrian Cardenas: 4 for 4, 3B, 2B
Fresno: SP Shane Loux: 7.0+ IP, 11 H, 6 R, 6 ER, 1 BB, 4 K--2 WP
The Grizzlies went deep four times. Gillaspie, Belt, and Gonzalez each have 6 HRs this year. Neal was one of two Grizzlies with three hits. He also threw out a runner at the plate. Cardenas, whom the Athletics acquired nearly three years ago in exchange for Joe Blanton, had four hits, including his 2nd triple and 17th double.
Loux had his third straight start allowing 6 R and his second straight start with 11 H. His ERA is now 4.54, and his BAA .298.
AA: Richmond hosting Trenton postponed by rain
(A makeup doubleheader is scheduled for tomorrow.)
A+: San Jose defeated Modesto 3-2
(scoring a run in the bottom of the 9th inning)
San Jose: CF Gary Brown: 1 for 5
San Jose: RF Jarrett Parker: 2 for 4, 2B, BB
San Jose: LF James Simmons: 3 for 4, 2B, SO
San Jose: SP Chuck Lofgren: 4.0 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 0 ER, 1 BB, 3 K--1 WP, 1 E
San Jose: RP Andrew Reichard: 4.0 IP, 4 H, 2 R, 2 ER, 1 K
The Giants' two corner outfielders, Parker and Simmons, both reached base three times. Brown, who presumably remains the Giants top hitting prospect aside from the rehabbing Belt, had an unremarkable line.
After sixteen relief appearances, Lofgren made his first start, tossing 4.0 scoreless IP. Reichard provided four innings in long relief.
A-: Augusta lost to Charleston 5-4
Augusta: 2B Carlos Willoughby: 3 for 3, 2B, BB, CS
Augusta: LF Rafael Rodriguez: 0 for 2, 2 BB
Charleston: C Gary Sanchez: 0 for 4, 3 SO, GiDP
Augusta: SP Taylor Rogers: 3.2 IP, 5 H, 3 R, 1 ER, 1 BB, 3 K--1 E
Augusta: RP Andrew Bowlin: 1.0 IP, 2 K
Willoughby reached base in all four of his plate appearances. His three hits raised his AVG back to .257. He has hit just .209 since June 1st. Raf-Rod was the only other GreenJacket to reach base twice, but his OBP remains below .280. The Yankees' Sanchez, who began the year ranked among the top 50 prospects in baseball, had his second straight oh-fer with a hat trick.
Rogers had perhaps his shortest start of the year after he was ejected in the 4th inning. Bowlin threw a perfect 8th inning.
ssA: Salem-Keizer defeated Everett 10-6
Salem-Keizer: CF Jesus Galindo: 1 for 4, HR, BB
Salem-Keizer: RF Brett Krill: 3 for 6, HR
Salem-Keizer: 3B Garrett Buechele: 1 for 2, HR, SO
Salem-Keizer: SP Lorenzo Mendoza: 5.0 IP, 9 H, 5 R, 5 ER, 0 BB, 5 K--1 HB
Salem-Keizer: RP Rafael Martinez: 1.0 IP, 2 K
The Volcanoes had three big flies, with Krill homering for the second straight night, Buechele having his first NWL HR, and Galindo having his first pro HR.
After allowing just 4 ER and 9 H over his first three starts combined, Mendoza allowed 5 ER and 9 H in his fourth start. Making his third appearance, Martinez piched a perfect 9th inning with 2 K.
R: Giants defeated Cubs 7-4
Scottsdale: CF Eldred Barnett: 1 for 4, HR, SO
Scottsdale: 1B Ben Thomas: 2 for 4, 3B, 2B, SO
Scottsdale: SP Edwin Escobar: 4.0 IP, 4 H, 1 R, 0 ER, 1 BB, 2 K
Mesa: SP Hayden Simpson: 2.1 IP, 5 H, 5 R, 5 ER, 2 BB, 0 K--1 WP, 1 BK
Barnett had his 1st pro HR. Thomas had his 1st triple and 5th double. Simpson, whom the Cubs drafted 16th overall last year, made his first AZL start. He was recently demoted following a 5.72 ERA in sixteen Midwest League starts.
Escobar had his second straight start with 0 ER in 4.0 IP.
DSL: No results yet reported for Gigantes at Blue Jays
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Gillaspie is now hitting .296/.373/.467 in 270 at-bats in the PCL. That goes with a 35/49 BB/K. What’s the groupthink on him right now?
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I’m thinking utility IF but I wouldn’t be surprised if he could be an above average starter in the NL. I’m surprised they keep playing him at 3B though. I’ve never seen a future for him at that position. It seems so clear that he should be moved to 2b the way his bat profiles. Heck, he probably should have been given some time at 2B during the Fontenot interregnum instead of throwing all those PA away on Burriss and Hall.
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Yeah, 2B seems like his ultimate destination. I’ve always though that Gillaspie was a little underrated around here. His defense is a question mark, but pretty much everything he’s done with the bat in the minors has been pretty solid.
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He seems to be one of those guys who does lots of things decent but nothing outstanding, and those guys always get sort of sidetracked by the straw hats. You could say much the same thing about Rohlinger and Downs and we can see where that got them in this org (though would that Matt Downs was still around). He can hit ok but not great; he’s got a tiny bit of power but not much. His best attribute seems to be patience, but even there his career minor league bb rate is under 10%, although that’s mostly due to an uncharacteristically hacky performance in AA.
You can kind of see him as a Billy Mueller bat upside, but without the Billy Mueller glove. Even at that Mueller’s career minor league line and peripherals were much better than Gillaspie both in toto and at each stop along the way, though he was about two years older than Conor at each step (still, check out Mueller’s walk/k/pa in his minor league career!). So you kind of look and look and say, “where’s the plus here? where’s the comparative advantage?” The whole package should be good enough for something, but at this point I sure wouldn’t want to predict what that something’s going to be.
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He’s been showing roughly league-average batting lines at every level, which suggests he is not good enough with the bat to hold down a corner spot. If his glove can be made to play at 2b, however, he could be a backup/utility guy.
by wcw on Jul 7, 2011 8:02 AM PDT up reply actions
Yes. But you never know. He’s only 23 (for a couple more days). There’s a history of guy’s like him taking a next step in AAA. Not a Chase Utley next step certainly, but a Mike Fontenot next step? A Mark DeRosa next step? Not completely impossible.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
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He can’t play 2B – he can barely play an adequate 3B.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
his fielding % keeps improving:
2009 SJ – .908
2010 RI – .946
2011 FR- .964
maybe that’s improved playing surface though? idk…
by repeat_in_2011 on Jul 7, 2011 8:31 AM PDT up reply actions
But 2B is considered easier than 3B (ie, minor league 3B who aren’t good enough defensively slide over to 2B in the majors), so I’m not sure that makes sense.
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if they have the range….I’m not so sure Gillaspie has it.
"Don't trust anyone under the age of 30" - Brian Sabean
by Smotheredinhugs on Jul 7, 2011 9:28 AM PDT up reply actions
2B is considered easier than 3B
I just totally disagree with that idea. Have you ever played the two positions? 2B is a much more difficult defensive position than 3B. You need a lot more range and quickness, better hands, and the ability to turn the doubleplay. The vast, vast majority of the time that a player is moved from 3B to 2B is not because of an inability to field the position, rather it’s due to the team thinking the player does not have the arm strength and/or not a good enough bat to stick at 3B.
2B is the 4th hardest positon in baseball after SS, C, and CF.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
I hated 2nd...
I never liked having the runner to my back.
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The angles really suck, too. You totally have to reset your mechanics and approach on all of your throws to 1B.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
Yea the angles are a bit more funky at 2nd
compared to SS and 3rd.. I liked SS the best honestly, but 3rd was hard considering my arm wasn’t particularly strong.
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I didn't choose to be a Giants fan, I was born into it. November 1, 2010 World Champions.
Proud Adoptive Parent of one of the best Five Tool Players, The Machine.
Yeah. but there was only the throw from behind the bag at 3B that really called for the great arm strength. On all of the other plays you had plenty of time to take a few steps and work up your momentum because the ball gets to you so much sooner and you have a longer time to make the throw than you do at SS and 2B. By the time you get the ball in your throwing hand at 3B the runner is usually not that far up the 1B line when compered to SS and 2B..
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
Not that it matters, but yeah I played 2b and 3b, and SS and CF, too (moved every year of my HS career!). And of the 4 2b was by far the easiest, and really by far in my estimation.
Also, I’d certainly say that not being able to make the throw from 3rd (say not being able to compete Sandoval’s play in the 9th inning last night) is a significant part of not being able to field the position. In fact, the defensive spectrum when it comes to the IF (and the OF for that matter) goes directly on the line of requisite arm strength: SS, 3b, 2b, 1b. The primary difference in every move along that line is: who has to make the longer throw. Otherwise, the need for hands, quickness, range etc are roughly similar in kind, with the exception that the up the middle positions are further from the batter and accordingly have a little more time to get to balls.
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by Roger on Jul 7, 2011 9:56 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I played all of those positions all the way through HS too, and, once again, I couldn’t disagree with you more. I found 2B to be only just a very slight bit less difficult than SS (and that was purely because I didn’t have the arm strength to play SS better so I had to constantly discover ways to cheat on it. The singlemost diffcult defensive play in baseball is turning the doubleplay as a 2B. 3B was really easy for me because the angles were clean and the balls come to you so purely off of the bat. The only real difficult plays at 3B are the slow roller/bunt up the line and the long throw on the backhand play over the bag. I never had a single bit of difficulty with any OF position as early as my first game out there when I was 8 years old.
Almost every major league 2B could play a very decent defensive 3B, but the reverse just isn’t true. Look at all of the guys that have been tried out at 3B in the majors who would never be tried at 2B. Johnny Bench and Bob Brenly come to mind right away. From recent Giants teams I’d point to Pablo and Nate as guys that were tried at 3B who would never be able to play 2B.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
Jim Thome, Albert Pujols, Chipper Jones, Pete Incaviglia, Angel Villalona, Pedro Feliz, and Kevin Youklis are just a few more of the guys that have played 3B, but would never be tried at 2B because of their defensive deficiencies there.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
Yogi Berra, Wade Boggs, George Brett, Darrel Evans, Carlton Fisk, …
There’s a reason why catchers are tried out at 3B all of the time, but almost never at 3B (Biggio is really the only one that comes to mind).
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
You two have hit on an interesting debate. Fangraphs, I think, recently broached the idea that second and third base were essentially equal in the defensive skill required.
Traditionally, second has been seen as the more difficult place to find a good hitter, but I think it’s an open question at this point.
I was thinking about that too. Good call.
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by giantsfansince1981 on Jul 7, 2011 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Seems like it's the same in difficulty
But different in skillset. Miguel Tejada, for example, makes sense as a 3B but not a 2B, because 3B needs arm strength and not range, while 2B is the opposite, and SS needs both. Catchers are typically stockier and have less range, but need good arms to throw out runners, so they make sensible 3B but not 2B since their skillset is poorly suited to playing second. If you’re going to try a catcher at second, you might as well stick him at short and gain the positional advantage because otherwise you’re wasting the arm (unless you already have a plus defensive SS, in which case 2B is better IMO because there are fewer LHH so there will be fewer chances and fewer hard chances on well-hit pulled balls).
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Still looks to me like he’s going to be not quite good enough to matter. But he has improved every single year of his pro career; with one more step forward, he’s a legit starter.
His numbers bear some resemblance to the first half of Mike Fontenot’s career (before the triple repeat of AAA). Fontenot had a better year in the EL, though playing a year older than Gillaspie it was really only marginally better.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
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Yeah, like I alluded to above, Mueller was always about two years older than Gillaspie at every stop which definitely favors Gillaspie. But at the same time Mueller showed a pretty significant peripheral advantage. With the single exception of his short (40 games) first stop in AAA Mueller always had more BB than K at every level (and often significantly more — hello 103/47 in the Cal League!). Gillaspie has never done that at any level. And particularly look at the disparity in AA: 53/36 for Muller in 398 PA, 37/67 for Gillaspie in 540 PA.
And for the career: 267/174 in 1950 PA for Mueller
131/198 in 1485 PA for Gillaspie.
Mueller’s way ahead in both his bb rate and contact rate, which is enough for me to overlook the two year age difference, though I do think that makes it a close comparison.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
Yeah, I was just trying to find the point at which they were closest in age while playing at the same level.
Right. I have a little bit of a fetish for “BB > K” players that kind of trumps all other considerations (in fact, it may be Mueller’s doing since that’s about the time I really started paying attention to minor league stats).
If I find a player with BB>K who’s age young for his league I actually start vibrating. And you don’t want to be around when I locate a kid who’s young for his league and has BB > K + XBH > K. That’s the prospecting Holy Grail!
It’s just plum embarrassing.
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Lets put it this way ...
I’d rather see Gillaspie with the Giants NOW than either Hall or Burriss.
same skills as Bill Mueller but slightly worse at everything.
Jonathan Sanchez isn’t likely to be traded unless the Giants fall out of contention. Jonathan Sanchez isn’t likely to be traded unless the Giants fall out of contention. Jonathan Sanchez isn’t likely to be traded unless the Giants fall out of contention.
Mark DeRosa is more than the sum of his tendons.
Gillaspie’s a little bit ahead of Mueller as a hitter, I think. Look at Mueller’s AAA lines from ’95-96, when he was older than Gillaspie is now.
Serious reply fail, but I replied to this comment, or at least attempted to, just above. I actually replied to my own comment comparing Gillaspie to Fontenot, which makes no sense at all.
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I like Gillaspie
Think he has the potential to a 2nd-division starter at 3b – a .296/.373/.440 line is pretty tasty for as 23-year old (ie, he’s not 27 year old mashing). Probably worth him spending the year at AAA consolidating the gains (having him learn 2b on the fly seems silly) and then assessing next year.
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
Career AAAA
I see him as likely never being more than that. HIs bat will never be good enough to make up for his deficincies in the field. He can really only play the 1B/3B split,which won’t hack it for a utility infielder. IMO, his only chance of playing more than a few years in the majors is to get with a middling AL team as a DH.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
2nd division starter/1st division utility guy
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by Gobroks on Jul 7, 2011 9:29 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Does he have any options left after this year? The agreement to call him up the year he was drafted may seriously hamper his development if we can’t send him to the minors to get ABs in the next year or two.
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by tedfordfan on Jul 7, 2011 10:13 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Each player has 3 years of waiver-free options. Since Gillaspie has only been up to the majors in 2008 and 2011, the Giants will still be able to send him up and down as often as they want for at least 1 more season starting in 2012. Thers’s a very good probability that his time in the majors during 2008 don’t count because he wasn’t on the roster for 90 days during the season. The real crunch with Gillaspie is going to be can we afford to keep him on the 40 man roster for more than 1 more year.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
Actually there’s a special rule that allows players in exactly Gillaspie’s situation to have 4 years of options, as he does. However, in the end, the math works out the same: 2012 is Gillaspie’s final option year. He’s been optioned to the minors in 2009, 2010, and 2011. I think you may be confusing options with major league appearances. Gillaspie wasn’t optioned in 2008, however he was added to the 40 man at that time. Consequently, in each of the subsequent years, he had to be optioned to the minors during ST before the active roster was set for that season.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
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That’s wrong. The way that I explained it above wasn’t quite right either, but you’re way off base. Being on the 40 man roster is not the same as being called up to the majors and being put on the 25 man roster. Gillaspie and every other minor leaguer on the 40 man roster did not use up an option year in 2009 or 2010 when they were sent to the minors in ST because they were never on the 25-man roster. A player has to be moved from the 40-man to the 25-man, or vice-versa in order for it to trigger a waiver option exemption for that season.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
Actually, Gillaspie didn’t use up an option wavier year in 2008 because he was called up during the Sept. roster relaxation period and never was placed on the 25 man roster, so he has 2 more seasons of free up-and down movemnet between the 25-man and 40-man after 2011 ends.
Gillaspie signed his first contract with the clause that the Giants would put him on the 40-man roster immediately and call him up to the majors in Sept. of 2008. It didn’t affect his option years, but it did start his major league clock running.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
Right. Gilaspie did not use an option in 2008. But he did in 2009, and 2010. however, thanks to the exception (players with less than 5 professional years can be optioned a 4th year), he still has an option in 2012.
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I bow to you
You’re right on the 40-man rule with regards to spring training assignmetns counting as an option.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
Sorry, Fla. You’re wrong on that. Every minor leaguer on the 40 man uses up an option when sent to minors in ST. That’s why they, and only they, are “optioned” to the minors. It doesn’t matter whether or not they are ever called up during that season, nor does it matter if they’re called up once or 40 times — they use up 1 of their options in that season. A player can run out of options without ever being in the majors, for instance. So Alex Hinshaw, for instance, will be out of options next ST (if he’s still on the roster).
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by Roger on Jul 7, 2011 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yup
Pretty sure Roger is right on this.
When a player is added to a 40-man roster for the first time, the major league team is permitted three optional assignments of his contract, or three “option years.” This gives them the option to assign that player to the minor leagues without requiring him to clear waivers. For each season thereafter in which the player is assigned to a minor league team, one option is used up.
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Yes, he is. I could have sworn I remembered guys that were on the 40 man for longer than 4 seasons that didn’t have to clear waivers.
This does bring up a huge issue with Ehire Adrianza. Adrianza was on the 40 man roster from March 2006 through Oct. 2007, so he used up 2 option years then. He was placed on the 40 man again during the past offseason, so he’s using up his 3rd option year in 2011. Since he’s been in pro ball for more than 5 years (it will be 6 years at the end of 2011) he can’t be awarded a 4th option year. The Giants will have to DFA Adrianza if they want to assign him to the minors after spring training in 2012. The only other way they have of keeping hjim around is to put him on the 25 man for the rest of his career. I can’t see some team not claiming him off waivers next spring.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
Why would they do that?
I mean, Adrianza doesn’t seem that close to the majors in 2011, why’d they put him on the 40 man for 2006-7?? Did they really think they might bring him up at that point? Pretty disappointing and apparently really bad planning by the Giants there
I’m pretty sure they didn’t put Adrianza on the 40 man until the past offseason (when they were forced to to keep him out of the Rule 5 draft — that’s when that decision is usually made for prospects, except when they’re brought up in season suddenly, like gillaspie, Bumgarner and Posey). In March of 2006, Adrianza was a just signed 16 year old in their DSL camp; clearly they wouldn’t have signed an unheralded 16 year old Dominican to a major league contract.
I’m pretty confident that 2011 is Adrianza’s first optional assignment. Which means they won’t be forced to keep him or waive him until 2014.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
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From his Milb.com profile page:
Signed with Giants as a non-drafted free agent on March 8, 2002. … Was added to 40-man roster prior to 2006 season…to clear spot on 40-man roster … Was placed on Major League 60-Day Disabled List from April 28 to the end of 2006 due to right elbow neuritis…was outrighted off 40-man roster Oct. 9, 2007.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
Weird. That’s pretty clearly inaccurate. And there are two bits there that suggest that somehow that biography belongs to some other player:
Signed with Giants as a non-drafted free agent on March 8, 2002
Adrianza was 12 years old on March 8, 2002. Such a contract would violate MLB rules by a considerable margin.
Was placed on Major League 60-Day Disabled List from April 28 to the end of 2006 due to right elbow neuritis
Adrianza was active and playing all of 2006 as a 16 year old in the DSL where he put up a smashing .156/.311/.189 line in 155 PA (nice OBP!).
I assume it’s just a cut and paste accident somehow. I wonder if they type over “old pages” on that site?
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
I think that bio is off, because:
Ehire Adrianza
Born: 8/21/1989 in Miranda, Venezuela
On March 8 2002, he was 12 and a half years old.
Hector Sanchez: Now coming to you live from Fresno!
Well, prior to 2006 the teams were allowed to sign IFAs at an earlier age and then not have to place them on their rosters until they reached 16, but 12 is a bit young. LOL.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
I kind of wish it were true and marked a shift in the Giants policy to scout young talent more!
Hector Sanchez: Now coming to you live from Fresno!
if he was outrighted in Oct. 2007, wouldn’t some other team have picked him up?
by repeat_in_2011 on Jul 7, 2011 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions
If another team claimed him
They would have to put him on their 40 man, which I doubt they’d be willing to do for a 16 year old.
Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
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A note re San Jose: Lofgren started because Mixon needed to miss a start. Mixon is on the temp inactive list (I don’t know the reason).
Giants Baseball: Why Not?
"Things I never thought I'd see #47783: Schwarzenegger applauding Ryan Rohlinger" -- Your mother, Nov. 3, 2010.
Going for the reverse golden sombrero?
Maybe Mixon is headed to Augusta.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
Nah, I think Ritzo tweeted that “he had to attend to something” a family matter I think.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
Yes, I assumed it was a funeral or something similar.
Giants Baseball: Why Not?
"Things I never thought I'd see #47783: Schwarzenegger applauding Ryan Rohlinger" -- Your mother, Nov. 3, 2010.
by kdl on Jul 7, 2011 8:23 AM PDT up reply actions
Going to the SJ game tonight
Marte is pitching. : (
But picture taken with Wheeler or Brown pre game! : )
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by Giant Fan in Singapore on Jul 7, 2011 7:51 AM PDT reply actions
They’ve got a road trip to Singapore!!!???
/obligatory joke
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
In all fairness, I was in Singapore a couple days ago...
"This is almost certainly a terrible idea. But I won't know for certain until I've actually done it." — Jez from Peep Show
by Giant Fan in Singapore on Jul 7, 2011 8:13 AM PDT up reply actions
Whoo hoo! Let me know how it goes. I’m supposed to do mine on Saturday. Not sure who I’m going to go with yet.
Giants Baseball: Why Not?
"Things I never thought I'd see #47783: Schwarzenegger applauding Ryan Rohlinger" -- Your mother, Nov. 3, 2010.
by kdl on Jul 7, 2011 7:56 AM PDT up reply actions
Is that a Wheeler start?
I knew I wasn’t getting him tonight, just wanted to watch some baseball.
You said you’d had your pic taken with Wheeler, right? Any other player suggestions? My mind’s not completely set.
"This is almost certainly a terrible idea. But I won't know for certain until I've actually done it." — Jez from Peep Show
by Giant Fan in Singapore on Jul 7, 2011 8:15 AM PDT up reply actions
Yep, it’s a Wheeler start. I saw his start on Sunday, though, and it wasn’t as dominant as I would have liked. High expectations!
Here’s a link to my Wheeler pic: http://twitpic.com/54×8pq
It’s pretty easy to get a picture with just about any of them prior to a game. Brown might be good just because he gets more attention from the autograph seekers than other guys. He’s very sweet. You could also go with Adrianza, Joseph, Parker, Main (who is the nicest guy ever), Cavan… Lots of prospects! I might go with Chris Heston.
Giants Baseball: Why Not?
"Things I never thought I'd see #47783: Schwarzenegger applauding Ryan Rohlinger" -- Your mother, Nov. 3, 2010.
by kdl on Jul 7, 2011 8:28 AM PDT up reply actions
Decisions, decisions
One question, if I may: For the pre-game picture on the field (a reward for buying the $100 worth of gear), do they use their own camera or am I expected to bring my own?
"This is almost certainly a terrible idea. But I won't know for certain until I've actually done it." — Jez from Peep Show
by Giant Fan in Singapore on Jul 7, 2011 8:59 AM PDT up reply actions
I have no idea. I have been meaning to call and get more details, because the information I have is pretty sketchy.
Giants Baseball: Why Not?
"Things I never thought I'd see #47783: Schwarzenegger applauding Ryan Rohlinger" -- Your mother, Nov. 3, 2010.
by kdl on Jul 7, 2011 9:10 AM PDT up reply actions
I just noticed that Tyler Graham is listed on the SJ Giants roster. Anyone know what’s up with that? Looks like he was assigned on 7/2. (Where have I been?)
Giants Baseball: Why Not?
"Things I never thought I'd see #47783: Schwarzenegger applauding Ryan Rohlinger" -- Your mother, Nov. 3, 2010.
You honestly scared me for a second
because I read that as Tyler Walker.
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OT
in all the changeover in the Diamondbacks FO last year, I’m not entirely sure who gets the credit for turning Edwin Jackson into Dan Hudson and picking up Tyler Skaggs as the PTBNL in the Dan Haren trade. Were those both DiPoto? They’re going to be scary if that’s the quality of trades they’re going to be making int he future. There’s really a lot of young talent in that organization at every level.
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I think it was DiPoto
Also while I doubt this was their intention turning Barrett Loux into Archie Bradley was a huge win
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by Gobroks on Jul 7, 2011 9:31 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
It was DiPoto
Remember how he was balthering on about how good Joe Saunders and Corbin were when the trade went through? He barely mentioned Skaggs name – and he turned out to be the centerpiece of the deal: Here’s what he said about Saunders:
We achieved by maintaining major league quality with a 2008 All-Star in Joe Saunders and a guy who quite frankly has been one of the winners in Major League Baseball. I think he trails only Roy Halladay among major leaguers in total wins. He’s won 63 percent of his games since coming to the major leagues, pitched in the postseason on two different occasions.
What scares me about the D’backs isn’t Hudson or Skaggs – it’s Bauer and Bradley. Those 2 guys are destined for stardom. I really, really hope that Archie Bradley loves football more than money.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
Well, Skaggs wasn’t officially part of the deal when it was made, as he wasn’t eligible to be traded yet, so DiPoto couldn’t very well have said anything about him even if he was already agreed on (as is likely). they also still have Jarrod Parker hanging around, too. (Plus Goldschmitt, plus… etc etc).
And by the by, I’d be scared about Skaggs were I you. He’s good!
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
Yes, but he could have said, “And we think the last guy that we got will turn out to be the best part of the deal when we get him in the fold.” As for Skaggs, he’s got really good stuff, but he’s also one of those guys that can’t seem to get to the 5th inning of a game. He’s just not near the level of Bauer or Bradley, IMO.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
I’m going to go out on a limb and say that there’s a line in the GM’s handbook that says: never try to sell a trade to your public at the press conference by praising the PTBNL. You always always praise the major leaguers first even when you’re getting a great prospect back, because the casual fans won’t care beyond that and casual fans are the ones you’re always selling to.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
So....
…Brett Krill. All of his tools looked really fringy (at best) when I saw him at UCLA. Is there knowledge of any tweaks that have been made to his swing over his year in EST? He’s having a good start to the season.
"Don't trust anyone under the age of 30" - Brian Sabean
He never impressed me when I saw him play at UCLA. Rich H is probably the only guy that’s actually seen him play this year. I’m guessing his results so far is just a flash in the pan due to his advanced age for his league.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
I’m pretty meh on him so far. Hasn’t played enough outfield to get a feel and at the plate seemed like a k waiting to happen. Everett is a small park, I’m told 380 to dead center so make of it what you will. Need more eyes on the player to give good insight.
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Gary Brown
Why is he presumably the best hitting prospect? He went through a slump but seems to have come out if it fine. I think he is by far the best. Panik is looking good, but probably doesn’t have Brown’s upside.
I think it has to go like this:
1. Belt
2. Brown (age 22, SJ .323/.389/.484, 384 PA – less PA but less pro experience + OBP gives him edge over Pegs)
3. Peguero (age 22, SJ .329/.358/.488, 538 PA)
4. Neal
5. Panik (although Neal and Panik could switch)
After that I probably would go with Hector Sanchez.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 7, 2011 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, I pretty much agree. I meant best after Belt and was just wondering hwy steve s said “presumably.” I think Peguero has had enough ABs to establish what kind of hack-rate he’ll have. Brown has looked a little better there and is less experienced as a pro, so he could improve on it a little, though probably not much. I would rank Panik ahead of Neal, due to positional scarcity. It’s just easier to find a LF who can hit than a 2B.
OT: Keith Law yesterday on the Baseball Today podcast, was saying that a player personnel guy he spoke to about Jose Bautista, suggested a really out of the box theory about him: that he’s always had latent plate discipline, but he’s never felt comfortable showing it because he’s always been a) trying to work his way up through Pittsburgh’s system; or b) always been an 0fer away from the bench, a victim of inconsistent PT. Essentially, that unless an organization is exceptionally clear that they do value plate discipline/seeing pitches, walks etc., when players believe they have to hit to get promoted, and they have to hit to stay in the lineup, they suppress their own plate discipline in an attempt ot gain notice and curry favor.
In this person’s view, once Bautista felt comfortable that he was going to be in Toronto’s lineup every day come what may, his “latent” plate discipline came out of hiding and the rest of his game fell into place.
Unprovable, but I guess it’s as good a theory as any on why Bautista happened. Law of course ended the story with a very good follow up, is there any way to know if players who aren’t showing plate discipline because they want to put up good numbers in the minors actually have it somewhere?
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
Well, teams could start by using minor-league development time as actual development time. It also depends on what the team determines to be “good numbers in the minors.” As long as there are people who think that good numbers in the minors consist of a lot of doubles and RBI, you’re going to have this problem.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 7, 2011 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions
It's an interesting theory
But I’m not sure how valid it is given how many players do show plate discipline in the minors (i.e. they don’t believe they have to hit to make it) and since some of those guys do make it other minor leaguers shouldn’t believe they have to hit to become big leaguers.
Then, of course, it’s kind of silly to just assume a player has that latent plate discipline and count it in his favor or even not hold a lack of patience against him. Hackertude is bad, so we can’t just write off Peguero’s horrible K/BB in SJ as “maybe he has latent plate discipline”. If he turns it around that’s something, but right now I don’t feel good making that call.
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Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)
Oh I wasn’t trying to apply that to Peguero. We know he’s a hacker. Hopefully, he’ll see that it’s something he needs to work on. A lot of that has to do with being able to slow the game down.
I just thought it was an interesting and thought I’d float it here. Because, really, Bautista’s having one of the most extraordinary and I think inexplicable mid-career turnarounds in history. And really, he never was a hacker. His bb rate in the minors was 11%. it’s pretty consistently been 10% in the majors. But last year and this year it leaped to nearly twice that, and there’s a chicken and the egg aspect to which came first: the power or the patience.
Of course, Peguero’s still going to be awesome for the Giants regardless of why anyone thinks Jose Bautista turned into superman.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
That is an interesting theory. Given that he had decent patience before his last two years, I’m not sure I buy it. I haven’t looked at pitch FX data for Bautista, but I bet pitchers are avoiding him now that his power has exploded.
Also, I love watching him hit. He’s my favorite player to watch hit right now. I’m going to be pissed if Adrian Gonzalez (who is also fantastic, no doubt) gets the MVP over Bautista.
I feel prickishly demanding!
I couldn't be prouder of my recent adoptee - Tim Lincecum's dealer. He provides the secret fuel behind both Cy Youngs. Also, he taught Timmy the change-up.
by giantsfansince1981 on Jul 7, 2011 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Sure wish we’d picked him up last summer when everyone thought it wasn’t going to last (of course, so does everybody else).
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
Lordy that would have been amazing. I didn’t think it would last myself. Happy to be wrong on that.
I feel prickishly demanding!
I couldn't be prouder of my recent adoptee - Tim Lincecum's dealer. He provides the secret fuel behind both Cy Youngs. Also, he taught Timmy the change-up.
by giantsfansince1981 on Jul 7, 2011 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Alex Anthopolous is making a case for GM of the decade
Between getting rid of Vernon Wells AND grabbing Napoli and Rivera in the same trade, then picking up Bautista and signing him to that extension when everyone was terrified he would just turn into Wells 2.0, he’s been consistently incredible. Plus a bunch of other great moves like Marcum for Lawrie.
Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)
Jose was a 20th round pick
It’s got to be hard for them not to “press” and attack all the time. But his minor isoOBP (is that a thing?) is like .090, and his majors is just a tick over .100 (and that includes some major league “pitch arounds” this season and last). I was just going to put in his BB% but it looks like Roger has already done that. I think Bautista has always had demonstrable plate discipline. It part of what separated in him in the tale of two Joses from Mr Castillo.
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That and being able to hit. And field a little bit. And run faster than a lemer.
Hector Sanchez: Now coming to you live from Fresno!
by tedfordfan on Jul 7, 2011 6:10 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I was just going on pure bat with track record, but I agree with you on Panik and positional scarcity..
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 7, 2011 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions
‘Edge over Pegs"? you’re just baiting me now, aren’t you?
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
Brown went through a horrendous 20+ game slump in which he was hitting around .170ish. I still haven’t figured out nor heard any explaination as to what was going on. He had gone through the league too many times for opposing teams to “just now” be figuring him out. He’s picked it back up the past few games, so hopefully he’s corrected whatever went wrong. I’ve got high-hopes for the kid.
players go in slumps, is what was presumably going on. In any major league players .300 season, there’s going to be 20 games where they hit .200. It’s the norm.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
+1
I also saw that he was pulling the ball much more often during his slump, which I had posted on before. Guys fresh out of college do have a tendency of getting into ruts during their first few seasons of pro ball where they’re playing 26+ games a month.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
So what happens when Belt is ready?
We obviously NEED his bat. And Huff while he is struggling this season, had the best June of the non-rodeo-clown-aspiring position players. We’ve seen his defens be acceptable in the OF (last year) and awful (this year).
Maybe the solution is simple, we cut Rownads and put Belt in the OF.
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time to bench Huff. not sure who to cut. Rowand seems obvious, but they’ll more likely have another convenient mystery injury.
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by nostocksjustbonds on Jul 7, 2011 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions
They’re not going to bench Huff for more than a day or 2. Without him they have no chance this year (barring a blockbuster trade). Belt will take away PT from Rowand, Pat, Ross, and Nate well before he takes any away from Huff.
In the end, I think Belt will spend a lot of more time in Fresno this year unless his bat all of a sudden comes to life in a big way.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
Without him they have no chance this year
He’s been one of the very worst players in baseball and they’re still in first place, so they might somehow be able to make do without him.
I expect Huff to improve this year. I don’t think this drop off will last. I think the Giants feel the same way, so Huff will continue to play.
I think there may be space for Belt in left field if he’s hitting well in Fresno and Ross is out with injury. Beyond that, I’m not sure Belt fits in well. He may be better than Huff this year, but if Huff rebounds, I think it’s reasonable to expect him to be better than Belt would be.
I feel prickishly demanding!
I couldn't be prouder of my recent adoptee - Tim Lincecum's dealer. He provides the secret fuel behind both Cy Youngs. Also, he taught Timmy the change-up.
by giantsfansince1981 on Jul 7, 2011 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions
I hope that Huff benefits from some time off at the ASB. The team could also stand to let him know that Belt is looming, and that happy-go-lucky thong warrior still has to hit. Light a fire, perhaps.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 7, 2011 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions
I don’t think Huff’s problem is that he’s just mailing it in. I think that he’s already putting more pressure on himself than is good for him. The big expectations coming off of last year, the big $$$ contract, and the loss of Posey’s and Panda’s bat (for 6 weeks) have all got him pressing way too much. Bochy putting more pressure on him isn’t going to be a good thing. Besides, if Bochy loses Huff, he probably loses at least half of the players in the clubhouse. That would be a disaster.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
Fair enough.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 7, 2011 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions
I would like to see Boch drop Huff down in the order for a while to see if that frees him up a bit.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
Hall. He hasn’t been good.
Sandoval, Tejada, Crawford, Fontenot is enough IFers. Hall can be cut or accept a demotion (assuming he isn’t claimed), and Burriss can be sent down.
That leaves 12 pitchers and:
Huff
Sandoval
Tejada
Crawford
Fontenot
Belt
Torres
Ross
Schierholtz
Rowand
Burrell
Stewart
Whiteside
Since Belt can be 1B or OF, that leaves one possible DFA if – IF – Freddy Sanchez returns. That would likely be Rowand or Tejada. Crawford could be sent down, but I think the team needs someone who actually can play SS.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 7, 2011 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions
Wouldn’t you assume Hall gets cut when Fontenot comes up, though?
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
Burriss might just get sent down then, but I think the Giants like Burriss more than Hall.
I feel prickishly demanding!
I couldn't be prouder of my recent adoptee - Tim Lincecum's dealer. He provides the secret fuel behind both Cy Youngs. Also, he taught Timmy the change-up.
by giantsfansince1981 on Jul 7, 2011 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions
Unless the team is dead-set on extra VROOOM, it could go either way – Burriss demoted, then Hall cut when Belt comes back, or the other way around.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 7, 2011 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions
Plus the idea of Hall makes sense: versatile IF/OF, decent power/speed combo, RHB v. Fontenot LHB.
It’s a small sample, but he has been really bad. That said, when Burriss can be optioned, maybe the team doesn’t want simply to cut Hall. After all, Fontenot has been hurt, Sanchez is hurt, and Brett Pill is playing 2B at AAA.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 7, 2011 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions
Huff in LF isn’t that bad. Huff in RF was the real problem.
Much has been made about Huff’s horrible WAR numbers this year, but (SSS alert!) his UZR at 1B and in LF have been positive. His UZR in RF is negative 89 kajillion. That’s a large part of the problem.
His bat, of course, hasn’t been good. His power has disappeared, so even when he is hitting singles he hasn’t been that good. His last 28 days: .293/.333/.348. Ouch, but at least that’s much better than his season numbers.
One possible bright spot for Huff: last year notwithstanding, he has a reputation as a second-half player. Career OPS first half, .780; second half, .852.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 7, 2011 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions
I honestly like Huff better at 1B than the outfield. Having said that, he’s been an absolute embarrasment at the plate this year. Every game it’s a toss-up of who’s the most painful to watch, him or Rowand at the plate.
Rowand has a much higher K rate, but also has a BABIP of .320. Huff has a BABIP of .268. I would like to think that his luck will even out, but that doesn’t explain the power outage. His LD rate is down, his HR/FB is waaay down, and I’m getting real tired of ground balls to 1B.
The advantage with Huff is that I can watch him and think that any day now, he’s going to fix what’s wrong. With Rowand, I have no faith that anything will get better, because, you know, slider in dirt.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 7, 2011 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions
What's the word on Otero?
any potential there as set up man? maybe lets them deal Casilla or Ramirez….
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