Post-game thread: A four runsplosion and bullpen magic
by Grant Brisbee on Jul 23, 2011 9:53 PM PDT
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PrintWhen a starting pitcher has a strenuous-if-effective game like Ryan Vogelsong had tonight, it's the kind of start that can screw up a lot of teams. Sure, there aren't a lot of runs on the board when he leaves in the fifth, but it should be a chore to fill the last four innings with quality relievers.
Here's what the Giants can do, though:
Sixth inning - Santiago Casilla
No, you don't trust him. But there isn't a team in the world that has a sixth-inning guy they can trust. If they trusted him, he'd be a seventh-inning or eighth-inning guy somewhere. No one is bringing out Neftali Feliz in the sixth and saying, jeez, we just don't know where else he fits.
Last year, Casilla was a weapon. This year, he's just a guy, but he's fathoms better than what most teams can run out in the sixth.
Seventh inning - Jeremy Affeldt
Used to be an eighth-inning guy, for whatever that's worth. I had absolutely no confidence in him earlier this year. I was okay with his 2009, and his championship-helping performance in Utleygate. He was a good Giant, but I never really wanted to watch him pitch again.
Something flipped, though. It's rare when you can point to a day or week where you can comfortably describe everything that came before as iffy, and everything that came after as quality. Affeldt is mostly quality now. And if he started messing around, there was Ramon Ramirez warming up. I'm pretty sure I don't know baseball well enough to rank the best seventh-inning bullpen tandems, but Affeldt/Ramirez has to be on the short list.
Eighth inning - Sergio Romo/Javier Lopez
Sergio Romo might be my favorite baseball player on the planet. Sure, I'm wearing this shirt right now, and Tim Lincecum, Matt Cain, and Pablo Sandoval have all sorts of things going for them, but I think that Romo amuses/pleases/entertains me more than anyone on the Giants. He's like a Steve Reed with the ability to get lefties out, which is something I would have thrown a virgin into a volcano for ten years ago.
And while it's hard to agree with Bochy's faith in Lopez's ability to get right-handed hitters out, it's so, so, so much fun to watch Lopez do his thing against the top lefties in the league. He made Prince Fielder look like Mike Fontenot tonight, assuming Fontenot was afflicted with glaucoma. So fun.
Ninth inning - Brian Wilson
Brian Wilson threw five pitches in the ninth inning, and all of them were strikes. That's like Michael Bay making a tender, subtle movie about West Virginia coal miners. I ... I ... I'm not sure if I'm ready to write about it yet. Let me process it first.
Four innings, five pitchers. The Giants are 1395-11 in close games this year, and everyone's yabbering about luckluckluck. Maybe. But it helps to have a backlog of good bullpen arms. And for as much grief as Bochy was getting for Romo/Lopez weirdness in the early part of the year, I still trust him to run a bullpen. If you just snorted, it's because you weren't paying attention to Felipe Alou.
As a final thought, coming from someone who was disgusted that Aubrey Huff was in the lineup today, here's to Aubrey Huff. Patience is a virtue. He looked pretty swell against Wolf, whose ERA against the Giants increased to 0.01 tonight.
I liked that game.
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I like 5 pitch Wilson
My mind ain't nuthin' but a total blank, I think I'll just stay here and draaank - Merle Haggard
So much more fun...
With a two run cushion and throwing STRIKES
fred71510
Sergio Romo might be my favorite baseball player on the planet. Sure, I’m wearing this shirt right now, and Tim Lincecum, Matt Cain, and Pablo Sandoval have all sorts of things going for them, but I think that Romo amuses/pleases/entertains me more than anyone on the Giants. He’s like a Steve Reed with the ability to get lefties out, which is something I would have thrown a virgin into a volcano for ten years ago.
Agreed.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
Loved Steve Reed.
Anyone who loved Steve Reed understands what it would be like to have a Steve Reed who was good against everyone
by Grant Brisbee on Jul 23, 2011 10:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Steve Reed trying get Lefties out was like Steve Frey trying to get Righties out
My mind ain't nuthin' but a total blank, I think I'll just stay here and draaank - Merle Haggard
by NuschlerFace on Jul 23, 2011 10:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Wasn’t he the Green Hornet’s alter ego?
by Grizzlie Antagonist on Jul 23, 2011 10:18 PM PDT up reply actions
No . . .
. . . that was the Lone Ranger’s great-nephew.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
Sergio Romo is a beast!!!!!
:GSW-707:
by OaklandsFinest30 on Jul 24, 2011 2:50 AM PDT up reply actions
At the game last night, I finally figured out Sergio's entrance music.
I was getting really tired of the monotonous droning until it dawned on me … you can actually sing his name to the music – over and over:
Serg-i-o Ro—mo
Serg-i-o Ro—mo
Serg-i-o Ro—mo
Would be something if you could get the entire 42k crowd singing that together while he’s warming up.
"And you fueled and energized this group, all the way through the crazy month of September. And into what was an epic month of October, and what was one glorious day of November." - Kruk
I feel like Casilla IS a weapon this year
Him and RamRam have been nails. even Mota is reliable. Best bullpen in baseball?
2011: A Tejada Odyssey: 15-Day DL
seems like his velocity is down a little bit.
by repeat_in_2011 on Jul 23, 2011 10:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Everyone in the bullpen is useful, at the very least, which is great but also a little disorienting since after watching the premiere episode of the “Franchise”, you kind-of sort-of want there to be room for Marc Kroon.
by Grizzlie Antagonist on Jul 23, 2011 10:19 PM PDT up reply actions
^ his velocity is down
as posted above. but he’s still been quite good. i don’t think he’ll ever shake the gas can label, but he’s been more than serviceable so far. so long as you dont throw him out there multiple innings
by Brannigan's Law on Jul 23, 2011 10:25 PM PDT up reply actions
This is exactly how I know we have a good bullpen
Casilla is the low-man on the totem pole w/ a 1.85 ERA.
Our long-reliever/mop-up guy has a 3.99 ERA.
42.7% of statistics are made up on-the-spot.
by romodonkulous on Jul 23, 2011 11:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Weeelll . . .
. . . as is the case for starters, it acquires meaning when there is a large enough sample size. But with relievers, that may not happen within any one man’s career.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
Of course, you have the problem of inherited runners and all that, which affects relievers much more than it does starters.
"Lee pitches...Renteria hits a high drive, deep left-center field, David Murphy going back, he's on the warning track—it is...go-one!"
Somewhat.
It doesn’t affect their ERA of record. What is harder to factor in is that they often come in and pitch only part of an inning, so the consequences of their performance don’t get a chance to properly play out. (That’s why metrics like the QoP are useful: they show what the results would be if the man were to pitch a large number of whole innings at the performance rate he has manifested.)
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
This is exactly how I know ERA isn't useless
because it allows one to debate over the merit of it’s use.
42.7% of statistics are made up on-the-spot.
by romodonkulous on Jul 24, 2011 12:24 AM PDT up reply actions
it's useful for starters
this confuses people into thinking it is useful for relievers
While I agree it's pretty useless for individual relievers,
using it to measure a bullpen on the whole that routinely pitches 3-4 inning consecutively makes it just about as useful as it is for starters. I know the comment was about Casilla ERA but I’m extrapolating to saying ERA has value for bullpen ERA, at least the way Bochy uses them.
Franchise
Is the new ep 30 mins or 1 hour?
Back on the market.
by positiveuphemism on Jul 23, 2011 9:55 PM PDT reply actions
hey check your gchat
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
That’s like Michael Bay making a tender, subtle movie about West Virginia coal miners.
Would totally watch this. In fact I think I wrote the screenplay.
I'm not fat, I'm a carousel.
or Pence.
COMIN' ATCHA, FROM ANCHORAGE, ALASKA!
Fathaigh go mbuaimid!
Proud adoptive Father of Joe Panik. Stolen 6/11/11.
Job 1:14-15
They need it for next week's Franchise ep
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
I think the real question is
At what price?
by fishmicmuffin on Jul 23, 2011 9:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Nah, that's completely unimportant
No one’s talking about that.
Gigante. Campeón. Pumpkin. Andrés Torres.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
I’m also curious whose spot he takes. Does it demote Cody to a bench role?
by fishmicmuffin on Jul 23, 2011 10:02 PM PDT up reply actions
For me
The move that would make the most sense is platooning Ross and Torres. And then get Rowand the hell out of here.
That is cray-z.
Yes
"Friends, San Franciscans, Countrymen....Humm Baby."
by The Nuschlerian Candidate on Jul 23, 2011 10:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Leave Torres alone, please.
Ross and Schierholtz are one man too many:
LF: Belt
CF: Torres
RF: pick yer poison
O4: the other guy
Then Burrell comes back, Belt moves to LF, and one or the other has to yield most of his time.
Getting Rowand the hell out of here has been a consummation devoutly to be wished for at least two seasons, arguably more; it will happen at the earliest of:
a) the Greek kalends
b) Hell freezes over
c) Sabean finds a brain
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
We're talking about in the Beltran scenario
Torres is going to be platooned whether you like it or not. Question is do you want it to be with Rowand or Ross?
That is cray-z.
Rhetorical question, I presume.
But I don’t see the necessity of the cf platoon, even with Beltran assumed. This is another reason a Beltran deal has everything to do with Sabean’s desire to be seen as activist and nothing much to do with improving the team: the need to figure out how to get good players some playing time.
Burrell, who is a bat not so far from Beltran’s, can only play LF. Torres is, we will asume, a better all-round CF than anyone else. Beltran must play RF (where he has been playing). Swell. And either Schierholtz or Ross can be OF4, who plays a lot. What about the other? More salient yet, what about Belt? Just write off Huff? I guess that might be popular around here, but over in the real world, that’s a pretty poor way to have to do things.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
I’m dealing with realities here. Burrell will never be a full-time starter with this team again, that’s just not how Bochy will use him.
That is cray-z.
Bochy has always given Burrell plenty of opportunities. why would he stop now?
by repeat_in_2011 on Jul 23, 2011 10:35 PM PDT up reply actions
What?
To quote the 10th Doctor further:
What? What? What?
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
? he said Burrell would never be a full time starter on this team again…i could see it happening – maybe 20% chance….Bochy likes to run him out there.
by repeat_in_2011 on Jul 23, 2011 10:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Burrell started about the first 40 games this year
and played himself out of the position.
by lexluth7 on Jul 23, 2011 10:53 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well, let's look:
In April, he posted an OPS of .816. I guess that is obvious benching.
This would all be so very funny if it weren’t all so very sad.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
I remember his first few hits were homers
Rally Jerry!
are you nuts?
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
I may have exhaggerated a bit
but I’m pretty sure his first couple of hits were homeruns
Rally Jerry!
this is veering into personal attack territory!
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
It's fine, I love being insulted!
He typed with heavy sarcasm
Rally Jerry!
He wasn’t responding to you
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
Oh.....
Um, sorry.I’m new here so I’m not really used to how Mcc works.
Rally Jerry!
Strangely. Very, very strangely.
Yet, in curious ways, coherently. Usually.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
Isn’t there a special typeface for this?
He is the world's most annoying rooster.
by gallo del cielo on Jul 24, 2011 1:21 AM PDT up reply actions
Bochy hasn't given Burrell alot of opportunities.
Before he went on the DL , Burrell’s starts were few and far between and if he pulled an 0-for it seemed like he wouldn’t start for a week.
Rally Jerry!
maybe i’m wrong then….i root for Burrell there but was a lot of criticism over on Baggs’ blog about him getting (undeserved) starts…
by repeat_in_2011 on Jul 23, 2011 10:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Don't take my opinion on PTB too seriously.....
I’m a little biased because he’s my favorite player.
Rally Jerry!
i think it was his batting avg., hovering around .200 for quite a while…seemed like lots of angry commentors on that blog whenever he’d get a start.
by repeat_in_2011 on Jul 23, 2011 11:06 PM PDT up reply actions
He does have a bad avg.
But he gets a lot of extra base hits
Rally Jerry!
I’d join this argument but my head exploded when I read that PTB’s bat isn’t far from Beltran’s.
Buster Posey: still better than Eli and Stewart, even with a broken ankle.
Unless that's in jest . . .
A team of nine clones of Beltran would score 1014 runs in a season; a team of nine clones of Burrell would score 968. The difference of 46 is, as such things go, not large.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
I wouldn't dream of arguing the stats with you, Mr. Croft.
And I’m being serious. A man has to know his limitations.
However, with that said, how is it that the Giants couldn’t get a plugged nickle for Burrell yet the division leaders are raiding their coffers for s hot at 4-month Beltran? Are they that dumb? Is it age or defense considerations?
No chasm here – I would really like your take on this.
Just a guess, but . . .
Burrell re-upped with the Giants for a mere million, well under what he could have gotten on the free-agency market, because he liked the team and he likes the region (in which he grew up). I doubt strenuously that under those circumstances the Giants would have even dreamt of offering him to anyone for anything, plugged or not.
If, as I suspect, that is the case, then what other GMs do or do not think of Burrell is immaterial. And yes, it is possible that with their usual keen insight into talent, the Giants may sequester Burrell till September, whether or not he is ready to go.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
If you base conclusions . . .
. . . on what is in a Bay Area reporter’s blog, you deserve what you get. The Bay Area sporting press has been the butt of national jokes for decades, and it has gotten worse rather than better.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
it wasn’t Baggs, just the commenters….and all i can get is Gameday, so i have to rely on others quite a bit….
by repeat_in_2011 on Jul 23, 2011 11:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Listening to Baggs commenters at all seems like a mistake.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
Belt should be at first. Huff is done.
Back on the market.
by positiveuphemism on Jul 23, 2011 10:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh good, I was worried we wouldn't have anyone disagreeing with OC about Huff tonight.
Gigante. Campeón. Pumpkin. Andrés Torres.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
tbh, I’m mystified that OC is still so enamored with Huff.
Back on the market.
by positiveuphemism on Jul 23, 2011 10:22 PM PDT up reply actions
I was on the fence about Huff till I listed to KLaws comments the other day. They made so much sense that I couldn’t help but fall off onto the side of a rookie first baseman.
Back on the market.
by positiveuphemism on Jul 23, 2011 10:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Bork Bork Bork
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
Huff was done. Shouldn’t have been given such a big contract. Something along the lines of: if you pay a scrap heap pick up XX amount of dollars, why give him a big contract the next year?
Back on the market.
by positiveuphemism on Jul 23, 2011 10:35 PM PDT up reply actions
just listen yourself. it’s on espn somewhere. around the 18 minute mark from the most recent show
Back on the market.
by positiveuphemism on Jul 23, 2011 10:54 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't think he asked . . .
. . . for verification of the remark; he asked “How was this persuasive?” If he disowns it, I’ll ask it.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
true enough. i didn’t quote everything. so I recommended listening. did you listen, btw?
Back on the market.
by positiveuphemism on Jul 23, 2011 11:10 PM PDT up reply actions
No.
My connection is not good for streaming, even audio. One of the few drawbacks of rural life. Trying to watch even a short YouTube clip is an exercise in patience. Getting a Giants radio game involves countless dropouts. Where is that universal 4G network I was promised?
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
sigh. lemme see if i can find it…
Back on the market.
by positiveuphemism on Jul 23, 2011 11:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Why Klaw doesn't like Huff
1 – thought he closed poorly in 2010
2 – biggest reason he thought he would fall off in 2011: he watched him play. said he looked like he had bad plate approach, loss of athleticism, slower bat
3 – said he looked totally done in 2009
4 – scrap heap pickup being paid like a star was a very bad idea
That’s his basis
The other guy on the show goes more into splits. Mentions bad Aug/Sept of 2010 with a raise in Ks.
Back on the market.
by positiveuphemism on Jul 23, 2011 11:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Hate to say it, but . . .
. . . that mostly seems awfully strawhat. The oft-cited “late falloff” is mostly relative. When a guy has a tOPS+ month of 157, many of his other months will look pallid. In his 29 games in Sept/Oct, his actual OPS was .834. That is not what I, at least, would call biting the weenie.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
Law is a strawhat. Just one that cares about numbers as well.
Jonathan Sanchez isn’t likely to be traded unless the Giants fall out of contention. Jonathan Sanchez isn’t likely to be traded unless the Giants fall out of contention. Jonathan Sanchez isn’t likely to be traded unless the Giants fall out of contention.
Mark DeRosa is more than the sum of his tendons.
Well as I said down below, we won’t know till the end of 2012 if you are right or not. I think you are losing the argument so far but hope you win.
Back on the market.
by positiveuphemism on Jul 23, 2011 11:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Huff drew 2 BB's
All hail to Lord Huff, commands the Prime Minister Owlcroft
by Grizzlie Antagonist on Jul 23, 2011 10:24 PM PDT up reply actions
"Antagonist" is a well-chosen descriptor.
Huff was 1-1; his OBP for the game was .750; and he scored a run. I indeed do not “trumpet” that as proof of anything, because it isn’t; but I’ll be hanged if I can see how it might be treated as a basis on which to erect a childishly phrased negative comment.
Maybe this?
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
Right. And if Huff actually has a better season from here on in, it’ll be because he’s exercising more plate discipline, taking his walks and hitting the ball in the opposite direction.
It WON’T be because ballplayers are dice or coins waiting to be thrown or tossed while they blindly follow the laws of probability — as some people have argued.
by Grizzlie Antagonist on Jul 23, 2011 10:40 PM PDT up reply actions
I think if Huff were to ride the bench that would be the best use of his talents from here on out. No matter what he does, it’s doubtful he will outperform Belt. Belt is better on D, will get on base more and will slug more.
Back on the market.
by positiveuphemism on Jul 23, 2011 10:41 PM PDT up reply actions
And your demonstrable, factual basis for this assertion is . . . ?
It gets really, really tedious trying to hold what can pass for a dialogue with people whose chief basis for their assertions is “I think” or “obviously”. Try producing some fact-based arguments that pass the tests of general acceptance by experts of the facts and logical deduction as that term is usually understood and I might be interested in them.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
Isn’t the burden of proof on YOU to prove that ballplayers are indeed automatons who blindly follow the laws of probability?
That’s a little more counterintuitive than it is to suppose that Aubrey Huff’s problems lie with the laws of chance rather than with Aubrey Huff.
by Grizzlie Antagonist on Jul 23, 2011 10:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Corr:
That’s a little more counterintuitive than it is to suppose that Aubrey Huff’s problems lie with Aubrey Huff rather than with the laws of chance.
by Grizzlie Antagonist on Jul 23, 2011 10:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Ballplayers don't follow the laws of probability consciously
Reality forces them to. They’d love to be able to exploit probability, but there are only so many ways of doing that; at some point, you’ve done all you can do and blind luck takes over. Everything is like that, not just baseball, and if you don’t believe that then there’s pretty much nothing I can say to appease you since I don’t speak insane.
Huff’s problems lie in both areas. He’s not doing well in the areas he’s got control, and he’s been rather unlucky. What’s even more counter-intuitive than supposing Huff’s problems lie with the laws of chance is supposing they lie only with his skill.
Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)
I see. Well then, maybe the Giants should have someone luckier playing first base — or at the very least, have someone luckier hitting in the cleanup spot.
by Grizzlie Antagonist on Jul 23, 2011 10:55 PM PDT up reply actions
And this is part of the argument OC is making
Huff is just as likely as Belt or anyone else to be lucky over the last half of the season, and given his track record does have the skill to produce at not only an acceptable-for-the-Giants level but a baseball-elite level. Belt’s minor league track record indicates a resume that is much the same, but I’m of the opinion that Huff will turn it around to some degree and I think his bat can help us. Belt probably can too, the question is how to fit Torres, Ross, Schierholtz, Huff, and Belt into the same lineup and there isn’t a great way of doing that. Huff should lose some AB’s to Belt because of how bad 2011 has been outside of luck, but he shouldn’t be benched outright.
Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)
Look, once the sample size is large enough, shouldn’t you be able to pretty much discount the factor of luck altogether?
by Grizzlie Antagonist on Jul 23, 2011 11:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes
But 400 PAs isn’t enough of a sample size to predict a BABIP as low as his. It takes a LONG time (years) for BABIP to have any predictive value (source), so at this point the most likely explanation is not that Huff is this bad but that he’s been kinda bad and kinda unlucky.
Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)
It’s not? The better portion of a season is not a large enough sample size?
by Grizzlie Antagonist on Jul 23, 2011 11:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Nope
It’s in there; BABIP only has a .586 correlation factor over 650 PAs (a year).
Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)
Besides which, when I said that the Giants needed “luckier” players, I was joking.
How can one make such an argument? How does one go about scouting, evaluating, drafting, and ultimately trading for players based on how “lucky” they are?
I’m amazed that anyone is arguing that “luck” is a cognizable factor over the long haul.
by Grizzlie Antagonist on Jul 23, 2011 11:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Sorry
On the internet it’s frequently difficult to tell the difference between sarcasm and outright stupidity. When I’m confused I fall back on “they don’t know but I shouldn’t be mean about it”.
Obviously you can’t scout or acquire players for luck since it’s random variation. And there are too many variables to isolate it completely, but when you come across a concept that seems to explain something via luck (like BABIP, since sometimes you get bloop hits and line drives find gloves) and then you find that the year-to-year variation is extremely high (which indicates the measurement is of luck since skill shouldn’t vary that much) you can generally figure you’ve got a luck stat. So we can’t be entirely sure Huff is getting unlucky, but between his BABIP being considerably lower than his career, the league average, and preceding seasons, it’s fairly easy to conclude something luck-based is going on.
Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)
while I generally agree there’s a very good chance that Belt will be the superior player next year, in 2013 and beyond, I can’t say I’m convinced that from this point forward to the end of this season that Belt would out-produce Huff. Belt’s AAA numbers are excellent and he looks like he has a better plate approach as far as taking pitches and going the other way and all that, but Huff knows the pitchers better and has been successful at this level before, and not that long ago.
To me it’s a coin flip which one would do better with the next 200 plate appearances.
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
by Aaronstampler on Jul 23, 2011 11:04 PM PDT up reply actions
No, it isn't.
That is the general flavor of the conclusions virtually all analysts have come to over the years, and it is what common sense suggests. The burden is on you to show why ball players should be considered likely to be exempt from the laws that rule all the rest of the cosmos. Time after time after time, analysts have looked for evidence that streaks or slumps have predictive power, but they just don’t: your chances of winning game number X are unchanged by whatever streaks of win or loss have preceded game X. And the same for individual-player performance.
Now you can either educate yourself on those matters, and on the statistical techniques needful to analyze them, and then present reasoned counter-arguments supported by meaningful data, or you can STFU.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
How do you even know then that Joey Votto is all that good? Are you sure that you don’t want to argue that he is just phenomenally lucky?
Your argument seems to amount to the notion that every ballplayer in the world is really just a .250 hitter and that at any given point in time, some are luckier than others.
by Grizzlie Antagonist on Jul 23, 2011 11:09 PM PDT up reply actions
That isn’t what he’s saying at all though…
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
To me, that sounds like what he is saying — or at any rate, that’s what his argument would amount to if you followed it to its logical conclusion.
by Grizzlie Antagonist on Jul 23, 2011 11:11 PM PDT up reply actions
He’s saying that over Huff’s career, he has shown himself to be a certain kind of hitter. That he hasn’t been that kind of hitter this year, owlcroft thinks is due to poor luck rather than diminished ability or anything.
He’s not saying that everyone is the same hitter deep down and some are luckier than others. He’s saying that each hitter, over his or her carer, has shown a certain offensive ability and that they should hit to that ability, regardless of what Huff has done so far this year.
So in terms of Joey Votto, obviously he would think that Votto has a certain offensive ability that he’s displayed over his 4-5 years in the majors so far and that that is his offensive ability.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
Right. So the problem with Huff is not that he’s swinging at bad pitches or stubbornly trying to pull every pitch.
His cycle of ground balls to second base couldn’t possibly have anything to do with that.
Aubrey is just an UNLUCKY SOB blindly following the laws of probability. In some alternative universe, he’s approaching the plate in the exact same age and physical condition that he’s in here and now and taking the exact same approach to hitting — and he’s hitting like Joey Votto.
That’s what the argument amounts to — that this is all about luck and not about the ballplayer himself.
by Grizzlie Antagonist on Jul 23, 2011 11:17 PM PDT up reply actions
If that's all owlcroft is saying
He’s dead wrong. Huff is doing worse this year in categories that stabilize fairly quickly and we can be sure that’s hurting his performance.
But because I don’t think owlcroft is an idiot (perhaps a little condescending and pompous at times) I’m going to assume he thinks there’s more to it than luck. What I think he is saying is basically that Huff has been unlucky and if he was luck-neutral even with the poor performance he’d be an acceptable player. So going forward one would expect Huff to at least be acceptable and if he gets his act together skill-wise he could be even better. That’s a guy worth playing.
Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)
Yes, thank you.
The crux is cause and effect. To posit causes, you first need to show actual effects. To show actual effects, you need to be able to demonstrate that what you’re speaking of is unlikely to be a mere random fluctuation. How you do that gets mildy complicated.
The interested might want to review at least the pop-science journals’ current discussions about whether or not recent data has demonstrated the existence of the Higgs boson.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
It sounds like you're saying that the randomness of coin flipping probability
is distinguishable from the randomness of the performance of people in that the factors affecting a truly random coin flip usually aren’t ascertainable, while the factors affecting human performance- and skill- often are.
Huff wasn’t great in August or September last year. His 2010 in general was full of 4th bests in his career. He has been craptacular so far this year. His 2009 was horrible. So we are looking at 2.5 years of playing time with a few good months and the rest bad. Those months seem more like SSS indicators of hot streaks in the midst of an over the hill player than all the other months look like down times for an average first baseman.
Back on the market.
by positiveuphemism on Jul 23, 2011 11:03 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm in this line
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
It'll be both, actually
Huff’s plate discipline isn’t as good as it was last year, but it’s very similar to his career rates and he’s previously been very successful at those rates. Of course, being more patient and taking more walks can only help and he needs all the help he can get.
But he’s riding a .250 BABIP and a career-low HR/FB; for him to get demonstrably better one of those two needs to change, which essentially means he has to get luckier to get better.
Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)
Huff
Umm… His K% is higher than it’s been since his rookie year… His BB% is lower than it’s been since his rookie year…
Those are not career rates. He’s walking less and K’ing much more than he has in his career. His LD-rate is the lowest for which we have BIP data, his IFFB rate is the highest for which we have data.
His ISO is at it’s lowest since his rookie year. And yah, his BABIP is horrible, too. Some of it is luck, but a lot of it looks like plain old decline.
It always does till it doesn't.
H. L. Mencken once remarked that when a young man misplaces his hat (in an era when every male wore one), he is widely understood to have lost his hat; when an older man misplaces his hat, he is widely understood to have lost his mind. Young batters have slumps; older batters have ending careers.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
But he doesn't post here.
So far as is widely known, anyway.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
You mean...
you aren’t Bruce Bochy? Yeah, right.
"Friends, San Franciscans, Countrymen....Humm Baby."
by The Nuschlerian Candidate on Jul 24, 2011 1:04 AM PDT up reply actions
LOL!
If owlcroft was Bruce Bochy, he’d be the most self-loathing person ever.
My adopted Giant, the young Reinier Roibal
This is unnecessary.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
Must have a Huffgrument!
Back on the market.
by positiveuphemism on Jul 23, 2011 11:04 PM PDT up reply actions
I have to say, having the same exact conversations about Huff in every PGT is getting tiresome.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
Especially now that the level of discourse is becoming a bit nasty!
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
It is all just conjecture. At the end of 2012, we can look back and even use statistics to decide whether Huff was worth 22 million dollars. That is, what? About 4 WAR a year or so? Something around there?
At this point Owlcroft is losing the argument. I hope he ends up winning because then we all do (except Belt).
Back on the market.
by positiveuphemism on Jul 23, 2011 11:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Burrell again
You are at least consistent. What is Nate going to have to do to convince you he deserves to be playing everyday? I’m just curious.
BTW – you continue to overvalue Burrell because you continue to overvalue his walks. Burrell walking is not the same as Torres walking. Period.
It’s still good though. Not making outs is good. I say this as a Nate supporter.
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Jul 23, 2011 10:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Good grief, Charlie Brown.
Nate convinced me, oh, say two years ago, when everyone else around here was jeering at me for saying it, that he is a bona fide major-league everyday player. Do you fail to recall all those arguments in which I defended him?
But I do not think (subject to amendment as his regular playtime goes on) that he is as valuable a player as Burrell or Belt. He is probably as good as Ross, possibly somewhat better, possibly somewhat worse: the sample size is still too small to be sure.
And I appreciate your kind correction of my estimation of Burrell’s worth. But I’m such an old stick-in-the-mud that I’ll stay with the thoroughly proven metrics that accurately assemble runs-scored predictions by knowing accurately how to weight walks as a component of offense. It is interesting to discover that walks differ materially in value from one player to another; you should submit your thesis on the subject to SABR as soon as possible, so analysts can cease their current foolish ways of reckoning.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
I'll submit my thesis righ flipping now.
All walks are not created equal. Not by a long shot. A walk for a guy who can steal bases (or at least run) is more valuable than a walk for a guy that clogs the bases. A walk with RISP when you are a middle of the order guy without much coming up behind you in the order is not as valuable as a walk for a number one or two hitter with the middle of the order coming up behind them.
A two out walk is not as valuable as a lead off walk.
A walk for a number 8 hitter is often not valuable at all _except for turning over the order.
That is off the top of my head for starters.
That is called Random Luck.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
Kudos, You are a sick, sick man, but you are very good at it -- wcw
No its not.
Its called situational baseball.
no it is not
you have no understanding of math or statistics, or even baseball.
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
by Aadik on Jul 23, 2011 11:02 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Bingo.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
Kudos, You are a sick, sick man, but you are very good at it -- wcw
A walk is not making an out. When it happens depends on how many outs other people in front of you have made. it’s random distribution.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
Kudos, You are a sick, sick man, but you are very good at it -- wcw
Jesus christ give me a break
I love it one someone says that I (or anyone else) doesn’t know baseball cause I don’t buy into baseball by mathematics. I’ve played it, umped it, announced it and coached it. And I’ve watched about 10,000 games and follow it religiously. I think I know the game pretty damn well.
You base EVERYTHING on equations. i look more at what the team has. All things are never equal. A players value on a specific team will depend on a bunch of factors.
If I could have 8 HIGH OBP OPS guys in my lineup I would. But that is not reality.
A lineup is a bunch of different parts that do different things. At least most lineups. Because you simply arent’ going to get 8 high OBP OPS types.
I know “not making outs” is wonderful. But your random districution response misses my point. . I’m giving specific stiatuions to explain a point. I’m not going on what some mythical future is going to be based on some mathematical formula you plug in.
Your meritorious opinion has been duly noted.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
?
“Meritorious”? That is a problem?
Meanwhile, there is nothing “new” about the math used in baseball: its roots go back to the 1700s. As to the application of it, it works the same as any other science: you look at data, you form a hypothesis, you design experiments to test that hypothesis, and if it works you have a theory. If others then also test your theory with their own experiments, and confirm it, again and again, your theory is considered a law. The collective name for this process is the Scientific Method. It is why we believe the universe is 13.7 billion years old, not ten thousand; it is why we have vaccines; and it is why we have modern baseball analysis.
What do you counterpose against this massive process to justify your views?
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
I think you guys are arguing two subtly different points.
I feel like lexluth is saying that a lead-off walk to Torres is more valuable than a 2-out walk to Burrell. Situationally, this is going to be true almost always.
Then, there seems to be a debate over the value of a BB in general. A walk to either Torres or Burrell would have a nearly equal positive impact on the individual player’s stat-line (Torres’ OBP goes up a tick, Burrell’s OBP goes up a tick) and their overall value.
SO: A walk is a walk because it’s not an out, but a walk is not a walk depending on in-game situations.
But because you can’t predict the situation in which a hitter takes a walk, you have to look at their likelihood of walking in general to attach value to the player. So you really can’t “overvalue” walks…which I think was the original argument like 17 PgUp’s ago.
Here's to the Dodgers and their bucket of suck.
I thought you were being sarcastic
Maybe I was wrong. As for the scientific method, I am not opposing it. I’m opposing a statistics uber alles approach. Because their is some “truth to lies damn lies and statistics.” I don’t ignore the statistical approach and I think it is a wonderful tool for GM’s in analyzing trades etc. I don’t think, however, you can use statistical approaches in a “general” sense. Cause different teams have different needs etc.
I also believe lineups are about balance. Give me a couple of high OPS guys that run at the top of the order a couple of power guys in the middle and some solid guys in 6-7 slots and I’ll show you a pretty damn good lineup. Presence matters as well. One of the Ginats problem is they have no one in their lineup with presence. No one pitchers fear. No one that makes hitters around him better. Plus, of course, they lack BOTH the high ops guys at the top and the power in the middle.
I’ve tried pretty hard to make it clear I don’t ignore the stats approach.Heck if I did I wouldn’t spend time on this board. I just have a slightly different take on its significance. Especially on the predictive element within a season.
Sarcastic? Moi?!?
As for the scientific method, I am not opposing it. I’m opposing a statistics uber alles approach.
What is that when it’s at home with its feet up?
What part of alles is not subject to attack by the Scientific Method? What you must necessarily be saying is that there are elements that contribute to the numerical phenomenon of number of wins that are impossible to convey in numbers.
Considering that the methods that use just numbers can predict, for example, runs scored from stat lines with an average accuracy of about 97.8%, and games won from runs scored and allowed with comparable accuracies, what is it that do you feel has magical (non-calculable) effects? And why do the calculations work so well without that magic?
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
What I love about you guys
is that in hailing your new math you are as every bit set in yuour ways as you accuse those who won’t buy it hook line and sinker of being.
But those of us who are convinced by this “new math” are convinced because there are reams upon reams of gamelogs from which we can figure out the way that things work. Anecdotal evidence only becomes powerful when many anecdotes are put together and analyzed in a rigorous manner.
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
First I'm not talking about anecdotal evidence
And I never have. I’m suggesting that you cannot use the metrics to make decisions all the time. That is essentailly all,
You aren’t taking the time to understand the opposition’s argument. That’s why you’re being treated so negatively.
My adopted Giant, the young Reinier Roibal
I understand the argument
I simply don’t agree with all of it.
When your anecdotal argument is not supported by facts, you don’t take the time to figure out why. Instead, you call us stat geeks and nerds.
That’s all it comes down to. And there is no way to have a reasonable conversation with you because you refuse to take the handwaving out of your arguments
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
Kudos, You are a sick, sick man, but you are very good at it -- wcw
You did refute his argument with " you know nothing of math, statistics or baseball"
Atta babe, good pick.
That was not me.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
Kudos, You are a sick, sick man, but you are very good at it -- wcw
Gamer when have I EVER called you names?
I just don’t agree with everything. I don’t call you geeks and nerds cause I don’t feel that way. I wouldn’t spend so much time on this board if I felt that way. My general point is that the stats are but one tool. Not the only tool. Course for that I think some feel I’m the tool. :)
My arguments are not anecdotal. They are based on decades of watching, religiously the game. I do believe in such things as feel, the psychology of sport etc etc etc.
So You can have at me all you want. But don’t think I’m calling you or any one else a geek or a nerd. We just don’t agree all the time.
It’s not really that new.
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Jul 24, 2011 9:07 AM PDT up reply actions
I always find it interesting when people take a “you guys” tack.
The whole perception that there is actually a hive clique you have taken it upon yourself to chip away at is very strange to me.
Once more, coming to you by proxy.
by howtheyscored on Jul 24, 2011 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions
FOR THE SWARM!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Jul 24, 2011 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions
For years I’ve been trying to break into the hive clique…all for naught.
Here's to the Dodgers and their bucket of suck.
We have very high standards.
Once more, coming to you by proxy.
by howtheyscored on Jul 24, 2011 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions
HIVE STANDARDS
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Jul 24, 2011 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions
I think we all know who the
Queen Bee is.
Fair criticism
I will try to refrain from using it in the future.
Oy.
You do know the value of stolen bases, yes? You can quote the numbers on what steals add to scoring? If so, you will absolutely, positively know you are wrong, and are a hypocrite; if not, whatever are you doing talking about them?
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
A hypocrite?
Wow that is a tad strong don’t ya thihk I understand that in metric world stolen bases don’t have much value. I also understand that in baseball they have some value. Moving infielders, making pitchers think about the runners, etc. Plus a base stealer is a threat to turn a walk into a double.
I think Ricky Henderson and Lou Brock were fairly valuable. I think Bonds and Mays ability to steal a bag added significantly to their value.I think there is a place in baseball for the running game – particularly when, as now, runs are harder to come by. But I’m sure there is a mathematical formula that will prove me wrong.
Stolen bases are certainly valuable at the success rate at which Henderson, Bonds, Mays and Brock (to a slightly lesser degree) stole them.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
They are also valuable on Ebay. There is quite a collector’s market for game used bases.
Back on the market.
by positiveuphemism on Jul 23, 2011 11:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Success rate
Running game is more than just teh success rate of stealing bases. Its about opening up holes. It’s about a pitcher having to adjust his delivery to quicken his approach to the plate, perhaps making him a little less effective. I don’t think there are any stats on this.
On the whole, it probably doesn’t make as much of a difference as it seems like it does when it works. For every time you have a successful hit and run, you have another time where it gets blown (just watch the Giants this year, they screw them up all the time).
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
Just so.
A remark of James’s that I have always liked is that when you look back through game logs, you just don’t see a lot of big innings with an SH or a CS in them.
(I believe it is still true that in the great majority of ball games, the winning team will have scored more runs in some one inning that the other team did in the whole game.)
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
“I don’t think there are any stats on this.”
To pick one single book, (“The Book”):
- They analyse how big the difference is to a hitters performance between having a guy on first (less than 2 outs) and not: it is significant.
- They then look at whether fast guys who steal a lot have an even bigger influence. And this is a great example of how things can turn out counter-intuitively: they actually have the opposite effect. Hitters underperformed significantly with Rickey Henderson on base compared to their usual talent level. They were waiting for him to steal, costing them a strike more often than not.
- They then further analyse this, to show that young, quick, left handed ground ball hitters are disrupted more than older, slow, right handed fly ball hitters – and even whether artificial turf helps more.
Do you see the difference? You are happy to suggest areas that might make a positive difference, and not think any further. The approach in the Book isn’t really about math, it’s about fact checking (which requires basic arithmetic). Let’s not settle for “a defense is disrupted”: let’s check if that’s true and to what extent. Let’s also check if the batter is disrupted. And let’s check how many extra runs are actually scored as a result. Turns out the answers to those questions are “a lot”, “a lot”, and “not many”.
by sarf_london_niner on Jul 24, 2011 4:44 AM PDT up reply actions
didn’t the guy who hit behind Joe Morgan (Tony Perez?) complain that he was often distracted at the plate when waiting for Joe to steal?
Jonathan Sanchez isn’t likely to be traded unless the Giants fall out of contention. Jonathan Sanchez isn’t likely to be traded unless the Giants fall out of contention. Jonathan Sanchez isn’t likely to be traded unless the Giants fall out of contention.
Mark DeRosa is more than the sum of his tendons.
That makes a certain amount of sense. I remember watching Rickey when he was in his prime and whenever he got to first base with 2nd open, everyone’s attention moved from the batter to Rickey- the catcher, the pitcher, the other manager, probably even the hitter. I could see how while it looks like the batter is at an advantage- everyone distracted and a bunch of fastballs thrown his way, it could do the opposite.
But what about Billy Ball or even the St. Louis Cardinals of the 80’s than ran, ran, ran, and ran and drive everyone crazy?
by Dingoes Ate My Baby on Jul 24, 2011 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions
Even that is unclear.
I believe Bill James once reckoned that Henderson added at most 5 runs a season. He also calculated (as best I recall) that even were the stolen-base success rate 100%, but with the then-going number of steal attempts (which I think was higher than nowadays), the effect would be trivial.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
According to some statistics
he added as many as 17 runs in his peak seasons, about 6 per year on average.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
Speaking of Rbaser on bb-ref
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
that's obviously baserunning as a whole, not just SB
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
How much impact did Henderson have on the pitcher?
And how much better did he make the number 2 hitter cause he’d be more likely to see a fastball.
I remember game 3 of the series. Kelly Downs was pitching. Henderson on second. Antoher runner on first. Canseco at the plate. Henderson was doing his dancing around bit. Downs kept stepping off. Turned to throw to second a few times. Kept looking back. Threw a pitch right down broadway. Canseco hit it about 800 feet.
That is the type of impact no one can measure by any statistic. And if you don’t think base stealers f**k with pitchers heads, well I guess there is nothing left to say.
some pitchers definetly get distracted
by potential thieves.
Kirk Rueter seemed to actually enjoy it.
Jonathan Sanchez isn’t likely to be traded unless the Giants fall out of contention. Jonathan Sanchez isn’t likely to be traded unless the Giants fall out of contention. Jonathan Sanchez isn’t likely to be traded unless the Giants fall out of contention.
Mark DeRosa is more than the sum of his tendons.
thats cause he was so quick to the plate
you couldn’t run on him.
In all honesty
anybody who doesn’t think a pitcher’s concentration — and by extension his probability for success in a matchup w/ the hitter at the plate — is compromised by the threat of a legitimate basestealer, has more than likely never pitched above the High School level.
42.7% of statistics are made up on-the-spot.
by romodonkulous on Jul 23, 2011 11:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Don’t you think this would be revealed by any study that looked at stolen bases though?
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
Not privy to a study of that nature
Of course…one would have to stop the game before and after every pitch, as means of charting the Pitchers consideration of each and every variable.
It’s easy to look to at what goes on in the field and document results and/or factors which seem relevant.
It’s not so easy to project each and every variable affecting the mental process — and therefore execution — of the pitcher on the mound.
42.7% of statistics are made up on-the-spot.
by romodonkulous on Jul 23, 2011 11:55 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well, don’t pitchers generally pitch a little worse with runners on base?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
Hurray for selection bias!
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
typically, defensive positioning is the major contributing factor. I remember reading about that in a study of clutch hitting.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
Kudos, You are a sick, sick man, but you are very good at it -- wcw
Yeah, I think the biggest difference is due to the hole between 1B and 2B. Lefties show more of an advantage at the plate with a runner on 1B than do righties.
Exactly
it’s one more variable to the equation.
Add enough variables, however or large or small, and you’ve affected the probability of the outcome.
Pitchers ARE generally affected by runners on base, regardless of a stolen base threat. Probability for success in their match-up vs the batter has now gone down a notch.
Now add the possibility of a threat to steal…say Vince Coleman, as opposed to Pat Burrell. Again, the probability for success has gone down another notch. Or at least, that would be my assertion based on personal experience.
One would be much more likely to groove a fastball as means of diffusing the “Vince Coleman” threat, than one would be to stave off Pat Burrell on the basepaths.
42.7% of statistics are made up on-the-spot.
by romodonkulous on Jul 23, 2011 11:48 PM PDT up reply actions
The only thing I have seen on this found that hitters performed better with a Pat Burrell type on 1B than they did with a Vince Coleman type on 1B, but I think the data were a bit noisy overall due to a smallish sample.
it certainly would make
for a good study.
42.7% of statistics are made up on-the-spot.
by romodonkulous on Jul 24, 2011 12:10 AM PDT up reply actions
Hitters are immune though, right?
Taking strikes while the baserunner attempts his steal couldn’t possibly hurt….
by sarf_london_niner on Jul 24, 2011 5:42 AM PDT up reply actions
That is the type of impact no one can measure by any statistic
Let’s try this stat:
You look at the stats of a player with Rickey Henderson on first base and second base empty.
You look at the stats of that player in general.
You compare the two.
You average this over every single hitter who had Rickey on 1st with 2nd empty.
How would that stat look? If, for example, hitters performed significantly better with Rickey on base than without, would you see this as proof that just having Rickey on base in a steal spot made the hitter better?
So what if I told you that the hitter actually did worse, to the extent that is was the equivalent of downgrading Freddy Sanchez to Eli Whiteside in 2010? Because this analysis has been done.
This is simple fact checking. If you asked “isn’t it somehow possible that maybe a runner could have a large positive effect on a hitter”, I’d have to agree with the vague and non-useful point. If you ask “did this actually happen with Rickey”, I can check that. It didn’t. And if you are convinced that hitters did improve with Rickey on base, you should probably question your assumptions (which is exactly how stats should be used).
by sarf_london_niner on Jul 24, 2011 5:01 AM PDT up reply actions
Wow that is a tad strong don’t ya thihk I understand that in metric world stolen bases don’t have much value. I also understand that in baseball they have some value. Moving infielders, making pitchers think about the runners, etc. Plus a base stealer is a threat to turn a walk into a double.
Presumably if those side benefits had any significant effect, they would be taken into account in any regression that determines how worthwhile stolen bases are.
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
You realise that every math geek agrees with all of those, right?
Only the math geeks actually ask the question “how much more?”
A runner that can steal bases is worth more than a guy who “clogs up the bases” – how much more? How often does he have to steal? What percentage of the time does he have to be successful? How much extra hitting ability will the “clog up the bases guy” need to compensate?
Walks are more/less valuable for lead offs than middle of the order guys? Agreed. How much difference does it make?
A two out walk is less valuable than a lead off walk? It doesn’t follow that a walk is useless though, so again “how much”?
None of the things you said are new or controversial.
by sarf_london_niner on Jul 24, 2011 4:06 AM PDT up reply actions
The sample size is too small to be sure
then how do you put Belt over Nate? Also, when in a year do you throw out the sample size. All i know is this year Nate is the Giants best all around outfielder. That may change and he may regress. If so, they adjust. But right now, he should play everyday.
Just like at the gas station
Just close your eyes and pump.
Gary Brown not in the lineup today
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
Kudos, You are a sick, sick man, but you are very good at it -- wcw
Fuvk
My mind ain't nuthin' but a total blank, I think I'll just stay here and draaank - Merle Haggard
by NuschlerFace on Jul 23, 2011 10:05 PM PDT up reply actions
OR Fuck whichever
My mind ain't nuthin' but a total blank, I think I'll just stay here and draaank - Merle Haggard
by NuschlerFace on Jul 23, 2011 10:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Hopefully we're getting Wright too
Gigante. Campeón. Pumpkin. Andrés Torres.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
Also, wait
This is meaningless, right? Because Brown can only be traded as a PTBNL anyway, right? So there would be no reason to pull him now.
Gigante. Campeón. Pumpkin. Andrés Torres.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
Yeah. He’s not tradable till mill August,right?
Back on the market.
by positiveuphemism on Jul 23, 2011 10:15 PM PDT up reply actions
They aren’t trading Brown.
Wheeler could go, though.
Back on the market.
by positiveuphemism on Jul 23, 2011 10:07 PM PDT up reply actions
I said in the other thread that I think that of those two, Sabes doesn’t like one of them as much as his reputation. And they’re going to trade that one.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
Well Brown is fast, plays great D (apparently), and can hit. Wheeler looks like he could be a good pitcher. One guy fills a hole in a year or two. The other pitches at the back of our rotation if he blossoms.
Back on the market.
by positiveuphemism on Jul 23, 2011 10:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Brown has the way higher floor but probably also a lower ceiling.
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
His ceiling is basically Jacoby Ellsbury
The 2011 version that has decent power. And can play a GG CF (Ellsbury lacks the arm). I think he’s got a pretty nice ceiling, and the floor is a 5th OF; Darren Ford managed to get on an ML roster and do fun things and Brown could do the same thing tomorrow.
Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)
I'm not trading Brown
but Wheeler could go. For a guy who is forecasted to be a back of the rotation guy, I think the Giants are feeling like they are playing with the house’s money with the emergence of Vogie. Could backfire but to be able to rent Beltran for part of the season and strengthen the playoff run, I believe Sabes is thinking it is worth the risk.
"I always knew I was going to be thrown at. I was old-school, so I didn't care, as long as they hit me from the neck down.'' Hac-Man One Flap down Jeffrey Leonard
by Penitentiary Face on Jul 23, 2011 10:49 PM PDT up reply actions
They need Wheeler too, though
When Cain and Lincecum are pulling in $20M and $25M respectively, the cheap production has to come from somewhere. Bumgarner, Posey, Belt, and Sandoval will be reasonably inexpensive for the next few seasons, but keeping Wheeler can extend the window of contention even longer.
Of course, there’s the general position that the FO has enough of a record with pitchers that whatever decision they make I will support. But I hope they hold onto the prospects and realize they’re going to the playoffs and the playoffs are a crapshoot, so while Beltran will help it’s not worth giving up a real prospect when it doesn’t vault us from halfway down the list of likely WS winners to the top.
Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)
SurKKKKKKKKKamp!
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
Gotta have five starters
Unless you’re sure about Verdugo or think we can get someone affordable and productive we have to replace Zito AND Sanchez (extending him would be a worse idea than…anything). Surkamp can replace Sanchez and Wheeler can replace Zito. Only way we can trade Wheeler is if someone else shows they can can take Zito’s spot, and while Barry has not been good so far he’s been average and made his 33 starts.
Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)
I’d like to see what both Verdugo and Surkamp can do in Fresno.
And yeah, league average (or slightly below) pitching for the entire year is valuable. If only we were paying $8 MM a year for Zito instead of $18, there would be far less bitching. And he’d actually be worth it, or near enough that it’d be of no consequence.
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
Agree regarding the floor. Brown really could be a 5th OF right now. Does Brown really project to have that much power? His ISO in San Jose is not substantially higher than Ellsbury’s career ISO, and is a lot lower than Ellsbury’s ISO this year.
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
JUGGERNATE
JUGGER-FUCKING-NATE!
"Friends, San Franciscans, Countrymen....Humm Baby."
by The Nuschlerian Candidate on Jul 23, 2011 9:59 PM PDT reply actions
Yes
So is DABBADOOING
My mind ain't nuthin' but a total blank, I think I'll just stay here and draaank - Merle Haggard
by NuschlerFace on Jul 23, 2011 10:00 PM PDT up reply actions
The Brewers are 21-34 on the road this year. Why has this series been so difficult so far? And Gallardo tomorrow?
Buster Posey: still better than Eli and Stewart, even with a broken ankle.
Because it is the Giants. Who can’t score.
by WhatsAMataHari on Jul 23, 2011 10:02 PM PDT up reply actions
We get to see which one should rank higher in the trade value series!
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
I'm not in this line
they have the chance to beat anyone in a playoff series, but their defense at some point will fail them. Still a top 10 team with their offense and improved rotation.
"I always knew I was going to be thrown at. I was old-school, so I didn't care, as long as they hit me from the neck down.'' Hac-Man One Flap down Jeffrey Leonard
by Penitentiary Face on Jul 23, 2011 10:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Giants Baseball: "We keep games close, whether you are the sucker or the suckee"
"I always knew I was going to be thrown at. I was old-school, so I didn't care, as long as they hit me from the neck down.'' Hac-Man One Flap down Jeffrey Leonard
by Penitentiary Face on Jul 23, 2011 10:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes
Clean on defense, good hit, and that line drive down the line with 2 men on (sadly caught)
Time to repeat in '11!
by Myemail21479 on Jul 23, 2011 10:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Looking at Keplinger
Can’t help but think of Jeff Kent. Looks a lot like him in field.
"The two worst things in football are: 1) They think that a 30-year old professional athlete has to be locked up in a hotel room, with a curfew, the night before a qame; and 2) They're right."
- Cowboy safety Cliff Harris
by achiappanza on Jul 23, 2011 10:41 PM PDT up reply actions
But spells his name differently.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
except Kent had the pornstar mustache
and Keppinger just looks like he forgot to shave because as an Astros player, he was getting ready for deer season.
"I always knew I was going to be thrown at. I was old-school, so I didn't care, as long as they hit me from the neck down.'' Hac-Man One Flap down Jeffrey Leonard
by Penitentiary Face on Jul 23, 2011 10:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Yep. Officer Kent.
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Jul 24, 2011 9:08 AM PDT up reply actions
In his alter ego of “The Machine”, he has Brian Wilson.
by Grizzlie Antagonist on Jul 23, 2011 10:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Wait is there actually Beltran rumors that are different now? I’ve been out of the loop today.
That is cray-z.
some guy said "rumblings" say Giants seem to have the edge
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
He said it stronger than that. He said Mets people believe he’s headed to SF.
Buster Posey: still better than Eli and Stewart, even with a broken ankle.
Here's what I think is happening
Sabean called the Mets and told them they have 24 hours to figure out if they want to trade Beltran to SF before he trades for a different bat. And if he executes on that deal he will no longer have the payroll or prospects to take on Beltran.
And the Mets might get stuck without an A prospect and without a team that is willing to take 6M on.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
Kudos, You are a sick, sick man, but you are very good at it -- wcw
thats good
i dont want to wait until the deadline
Sometimes you just have to look death in the face and say whatever man
Proud parent of Jeff Keppinger's better half
by operation carrot on Jul 23, 2011 10:14 PM PDT up reply actions
This is possible.
Could have given them an ultimatum re taking on most or all of the contract plus one “A” prospect for Beltran.
If competition is really that strong, could be a good move.
Sabean’s trigger finger is definitely itching. He’s getting ancy. Who wouldn’t be watching this B.S. every night.
"Friends, San Franciscans, Countrymen....Humm Baby."
by The Nuschlerian Candidate on Jul 23, 2011 10:17 PM PDT up reply actions
$6 mil is almost 100% by now. are they gonna pay that much plus a Brown or Wheeler?
by repeat_in_2011 on Jul 23, 2011 10:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Given the lack of starting depth, I’d guess Brown — that is, if it really does happen.
by Grizzlie Antagonist on Jul 23, 2011 10:27 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm more in favor of parting with Wheeler than Brown
and keep in mind, we will not be re-signing Beltran after this year, so this is a very pricey rental at $6 million and if the player we lose blossoms.
"I always knew I was going to be thrown at. I was old-school, so I didn't care, as long as they hit me from the neck down.'' Hac-Man One Flap down Jeffrey Leonard
by Penitentiary Face on Jul 23, 2011 10:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Gamecap
Exactly.
And, Giants offense after 2 “shutdown” innings for Wolf, scored. Giants offense scored 4 runs, 4 clean hard runs. Good for them.
Time to repeat in '11!
Going to bed
Call me if we trade for Beltran. My number is 867-5309.
Buster Posey: still better than Eli and Stewart, even with a broken ankle.
For a good time, for a good time, call!
"'What would you rather have -- a million dollars or Bochy's head full o' nickels?'" - ABOM
by urea on Jul 23, 2011 10:05 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
That works as a number for Safeway's Club Card if you forget yours.
Every area code. It’s an invaluable tip.
by Grant Brisbee on Jul 23, 2011 10:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Jenny loves her some Safeway Select salsa.
"Friends, San Franciscans, Countrymen....Humm Baby."
by The Nuschlerian Candidate on Jul 23, 2011 10:10 PM PDT up reply actions
That is hilarious
I love geek pranks.
"The two worst things in football are: 1) They think that a 30-year old professional athlete has to be locked up in a hotel room, with a curfew, the night before a qame; and 2) They're right."
- Cowboy safety Cliff Harris
by achiappanza on Jul 23, 2011 10:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Thanks Grant
used the code tonight for a late night ice cream run. Checkout clerk said, “have a good night Mr. Cocktosin”.
"I always knew I was going to be thrown at. I was old-school, so I didn't care, as long as they hit me from the neck down.'' Hac-Man One Flap down Jeffrey Leonard
by Penitentiary Face on Jul 23, 2011 11:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Nobody actually calls themself so why would you need to know your number?
by Dingoes Ate My Baby on Jul 24, 2011 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions
I signed up under a number I haven’t had for over a decade.
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Jul 24, 2011 9:58 AM PDT up reply actions
You laugh about this
I have a friend that is so paranoid of corporations tracking his personal data, he made up a fake phone number with a fake name for even Safeway Card.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
Kudos, You are a sick, sick man, but you are very good at it -- wcw
works well in Houston.
Sorry, but no Safeways in H-town. Perhaps Tom Thumbs.
"I always knew I was going to be thrown at. I was old-school, so I didn't care, as long as they hit me from the neck down.'' Hac-Man One Flap down Jeffrey Leonard
by Penitentiary Face on Jul 23, 2011 11:11 PM PDT up reply actions
1-800-pee-pee-5-1-doo-doo
Bruce Bochy: Leave him alone, he's the Manager Man and his BORK is much worse than his bite.
by zodiac_chiller on Jul 23, 2011 10:20 PM PDT up reply actions
When this song came out, did anyone call 867-5309 and ask for Jenny? Note: the band is from the Bay Area so that could have been a Bay Area phone number (which was 408).
Still the father of two-time Cy Young Award winner Tim Lincecum.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
Apparently it’s a major problem for people with that number.
"Lee pitches...Renteria hits a high drive, deep left-center field, David Murphy going back, he's on the warning track—it is...go-one!"
I hired a tech named Jenny who was in her early twenties, and when she gave me her home phone, I said I know it, it’s 867-5309, right? She looked at me like I was from Mars, and I felt really old.
Buster Posey: still better than Eli and Stewart, even with a broken ankle.
Missed the game. Why was Wotus tossed?
Follow me on Twitter @MTLJosh
by Montreal Giants Fan on Jul 23, 2011 10:07 PM PDT reply actions
Arguing balls and strikes. Looked like Vogelsong got squeezed a bit on some low strikes. And Wotus wasn’t having it.
by fishmicmuffin on Jul 23, 2011 10:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Would be nice if Bork but up a stink once in a while...
Follow me on Twitter @MTLJosh
by Montreal Giants Fan on Jul 23, 2011 10:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Butt has 2 T's in America!
My mind ain't nuthin' but a total blank, I think I'll just stay here and draaank - Merle Haggard
by NuschlerFace on Jul 23, 2011 10:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Bochy strikes me as a pretty good chirper
He gets tossed occasionally, but seems to be able to make noise without crossing the line
The thong is, it happened.
Wow
Mariners have lost 14 games in a row.
Belted!
by AndYourBirdCanSing on Jul 23, 2011 10:10 PM PDT reply actions
"Run prevention . . . "
“. . . it’s the new Moneyball!”
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
ONe would think that somewhere along the line someone would notice that defense has diminishing returns.
"Lee pitches...Renteria hits a high drive, deep left-center field, David Murphy going back, he's on the warning track—it is...go-one!"
One would indeed.
I think the problem is that the “old” Moneyball isn’t trendy enough: one must show that one has somehow found something new and original. That it perhaps doesn’t actually work takes a while to set in. This is much like the “music of the future” movement, and “the novel is dead” literature. An awful lot of contemporary baseball people seem peeved that they weren’t there back in the day, and are determined to show that they, too, can discover new and wonderful things. It’s sort of like, hey Newton and Einstein were ok, but wait’ll they get a load of me (to mix in a Jack Nicholson line).
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
#6 organization in baseball!
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
Kudos, You are a sick, sick man, but you are very good at it -- wcw
Griffey was on the juice
My mind ain't nuthin' but a total blank, I think I'll just stay here and draaank - Merle Haggard
by NuschlerFace on Jul 23, 2011 10:15 PM PDT up reply actions
to think that the Mariners were in the race 2 weeks ago
but now have dropped 14 additional games back in 14 days.
"I always knew I was going to be thrown at. I was old-school, so I didn't care, as long as they hit me from the neck down.'' Hac-Man One Flap down Jeffrey Leonard
by Penitentiary Face on Jul 23, 2011 11:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Sergio Romo.
That is all.
42.7% of statistics are made up on-the-spot.
by romodonkulous on Jul 23, 2011 10:39 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm torn ...
Rockies 3, Arizona 12.
Happy to see the Rockies lose but the D-Bags keep pace.
"Sharp grounder hit to Uribe to Thompson, for one, to Clark- DOUBLE PLAY!"
by FanFavoriteNo36 on Jul 23, 2011 10:12 PM PDT reply actions
I think I’m now officially more worried about the Snakes than the Dinosaurs.
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
Well, that wasn’t one of the options in the multiple choice question!
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
Yeah, I see very little reason to angst about the Rockies until they get within, oh, 5 games.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
has sabean ever made the obvious move?
Im pretty sure he is going to pull off some insane trade from left field that no one sees coming
and it will be as terrifying as it will be glorious
Sometimes you just have to look death in the face and say whatever man
Proud parent of Jeff Keppinger's better half
by operation carrot on Jul 23, 2011 10:12 PM PDT reply actions
exactly
Bruce Bochy: Leave him alone, he's the Manager Man and his BORK is much worse than his bite.
by zodiac_chiller on Jul 23, 2011 10:21 PM PDT up reply actions
From left field?
Burrell’s little black book for Pujols.
by maysian on Jul 23, 2011 10:16 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
BELT AND WHEELER FOR RYAN BRAUN.
Still the father of two-time Cy Young Award winner Tim Lincecum.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
Actually, I think would do this trade.
Still the father of two-time Cy Young Award winner Tim Lincecum.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
I would do it in a second
Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)
Everyone would.
"Friends, San Franciscans, Countrymen....Humm Baby."
by The Nuschlerian Candidate on Jul 23, 2011 11:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Apparently SFGuy had to think about it.
Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)
nope
Braun has a $145M committed over the next 9 years. He’s a very good player, but that’s not a risk I want to take, especially with 6 cheap years of Belt available.
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
From what I understand, Braun’s contract is structured so that he is paid $12M per or less until 2016. He’s 27 years old and one of the best outfielders in MLB. I’d gladly pay the huge markup starting in 2016 in exchange for such a huge bump in our chances at another championship in this current window. I like Belt as much as the next fan, but he’s a prospect. Braun is a sure thing, and a reasonably priced sure thing at that (for the next few years anyway).
"Friends, San Franciscans, Countrymen....Humm Baby."
by The Nuschlerian Candidate on Jul 23, 2011 11:17 PM PDT up reply actions
The contract is a problem
But he’s probably the best offensive outfielder in the game, Neal is looking more like a 4th OF every day with the power outage in Fresno, and while he’s locked up through 2020 he’s only 27 now so we’d get him at his prime age. I don’t want to be paying him that much when he’s in his late thirties but we can contend now and he’s crazy cheap through 2015. Braun is a game-changing player and it looks like he’s actually getting better.
Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)
BELTS AND SUSPENDERS FOR BELTRAN
May 29, 2010: Steven Revetria becomes Giants General Manager. The rest is history.
"118 elements, and still no stanfurdium"- carp, paraphrased
Bandwagons are fun- that's why people get on them in the first place.
by natteringnabob on Jul 23, 2011 10:31 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
THROWN IN A PAIR OF PANTALOONS
Rally Jerry!
We’ll make a haberdashery of this roster yet!
May 29, 2010: Steven Revetria becomes Giants General Manager. The rest is history.
"118 elements, and still no stanfurdium"- carp, paraphrased
Bandwagons are fun- that's why people get on them in the first place.
by natteringnabob on Jul 24, 2011 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions
like Jefff Keppinger
"There was no torture in the end. Only rapture." - Mike Krukow
2010 Giants: World Series Champs
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jul 24, 2011 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions
Is there any chance the rockeis would trade with us?
Wigginton would be interesting. Plus he is VERSATILE which Sabean is in love with.
Follow me on Twitter @MTLJosh
by Montreal Giants Fan on Jul 23, 2011 10:16 PM PDT reply actions
yeah a rival within the division, sure
Bruce Bochy: Leave him alone, he's the Manager Man and his BORK is much worse than his bite.
by zodiac_chiller on Jul 23, 2011 10:21 PM PDT up reply actions
the rox are toast. wont they be sellers?
Or are they planning on a 25-2 september?
Follow me on Twitter @MTLJosh
by Montreal Giants Fan on Jul 23, 2011 10:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, they probably still remember 2007.
by Grizzlie Antagonist on Jul 23, 2011 10:29 PM PDT up reply actions
It's the last thing Sabes wants to do.
to trade a Giant prospect to the Rox who will torment us for years to come.
"And you fueled and energized this group, all the way through the crazy month of September. And into what was an epic month of October, and what was one glorious day of November." - Kruk
Doubt it would need to be a good prospect. Wigginton is a bit of a journeyman. Probably a C level prospect
Follow me on Twitter @MTLJosh
by Montreal Giants Fan on Jul 23, 2011 10:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Getting Wiggy With it
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
Kudos, You are a sick, sick man, but you are very good at it -- wcw
My friend is texting me about the possibility of the Giants trading for Beltran:
Him: I had heard the Giants wanted to swallow the six million salary and give up no players, but the Mets want hung talent.
Me: They want porn stars?
Beltran for a Machine To Be Named Later
by Grizzlie Antagonist on Jul 23, 2011 10:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Actually, I meant to put that joke under the Burrell sub-thread.
by Grizzlie Antagonist on Jul 23, 2011 10:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Fixed
He [Lopez] made Prince Fielder look likeMike FontenotJoey Votto tonight.
"And you fueled and energized this group, all the way through the crazy month of September. And into what was an epic month of October, and what was one glorious day of November." - Kruk
by drdata24 on Jul 23, 2011 10:25 PM PDT reply actions 4 recs
I can’t believe Huff didn’t make an out.
Still the father of two-time Cy Young Award winner Tim Lincecum.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
He did on a fly ball to right field
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
Kudos, You are a sick, sick man, but you are very good at it -- wcw
left field
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
Kudos, You are a sick, sick man, but you are very good at it -- wcw
Box score says he went 1 for 1 with 2 walks.
Still the father of two-time Cy Young Award winner Tim Lincecum.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
Sac fly.
Not an AB.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
Penn and Teller: Fool Us
Just started watching. Seems good so far.
Back on the market.
by positiveuphemism on Jul 23, 2011 10:25 PM PDT reply actions
its really good
I love the envelope guy who won the first special
Sometimes you just have to look death in the face and say whatever man
Proud parent of Jeff Keppinger's better half
by operation carrot on Jul 23, 2011 10:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Not done watching it! :p
Back on the market.
by positiveuphemism on Jul 23, 2011 10:36 PM PDT up reply actions
What happened to Penn and Teller: Bullshit!?
Still the father of two-time Cy Young Award winner Tim Lincecum.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
no new season announced yet. rumors of season 9 later this year.
they are really scraping the bottom of the barrel, though.
Back on the market.
by positiveuphemism on Jul 23, 2011 10:36 PM PDT up reply actions
give them a brake
/old caltran humor
Sometimes you just have to look death in the face and say whatever man
Proud parent of Jeff Keppinger's better half
by operation carrot on Jul 23, 2011 10:34 PM PDT up reply actions
make sure you're wearing your CarBelt
Brian Wilson: "Don't Quote Me"
Buster Posey: "I Ain't Havin' It"
Pat Burrell: "The Patural"
Aubrey Huff: "Let's Get Weird"
by slackersphere17 on Jul 23, 2011 10:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Barlos Caltran
Bruce Bochy: Leave him alone, he's the Manager Man and his BORK is much worse than his bite.
by zodiac_chiller on Jul 23, 2011 10:41 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Nate was great, Ross had himself a nice little game, and the bullpen remained obscene.
I enjoyed watching Huff tonight. He was taking pitches he’s been flailing at all year. Since it seems to be a foregone conclusion Bochy is going to play him, at this point I can only hope he turns it around and games like tonight encourage a great deal more than his solo HR game in SD, for instance.
I also admit to having an irrational pokemonz-fueled love for Keppinger. He will forever be one of my favorite waiver-adds because of his 276 PA stint for the Reds in ‘07, where he hit .332 to finish out the season at 2B. Watching him play I like his style. Do I wish he took more walks and grounded into double plays less? Sure. But there’s something I really like about a guy who makes a lot of loud contact and is a total sonofabitch to strike out.
"My father's name is art, and my name's pride, and while my destiny reads a recipe for confusion I'm looking for whoever writes, so empty inside." -Slug
I like Kepp too.
Even liked his very first at bat, even though it was only three pitches. Took a couple balls, then swung. And I liked the look of his swing. He seems very comfortable at the plate.
Giant MVP to date
Sandoval is the obvious choice. But you can make a good argument that Romo?Lopez are co-MVP’s those guys have been unreal. And despite the carping on this board, Bochy has used them very well. Better yet, neither have been overworked to this point in the season.
As for Bochy using Lopez versus righties – they hit a tad lower against him (.242) then lefties do against Romo (..260). Lefties hit .108 against Lopez. Righties .120 versus Romo. Sick.
Lopez has not given up a homer this year. Does any one remember if he gave up any after he came over here last year???
AAAGH, you jinxed him. You KNOW now what’s going to happen tomorrow!
by Grizzlie Antagonist on Jul 23, 2011 10:50 PM PDT up reply actions
back to the MVP choices
Vogoelsong!
Brian Wilson: "Don't Quote Me"
Buster Posey: "I Ain't Havin' It"
Pat Burrell: "The Patural"
Aubrey Huff: "Let's Get Weird"
by slackersphere17 on Jul 23, 2011 10:51 PM PDT up reply actions
over his career, lefties have hit closer to .300 off of him.
He’s had a few good outings against RHH, but I don’t think Bochy should get cocky with him.
Jonathan Sanchez isn’t likely to be traded unless the Giants fall out of contention. Jonathan Sanchez isn’t likely to be traded unless the Giants fall out of contention. Jonathan Sanchez isn’t likely to be traded unless the Giants fall out of contention.
Mark DeRosa is more than the sum of his tendons.
righties
not lefties
you get it
Jonathan Sanchez isn’t likely to be traded unless the Giants fall out of contention. Jonathan Sanchez isn’t likely to be traded unless the Giants fall out of contention. Jonathan Sanchez isn’t likely to be traded unless the Giants fall out of contention.
Mark DeRosa is more than the sum of his tendons.
Factoring in consistent playing and performance/production
my vote still goes to Cain.
But I also like the Romo pick. Could make a pretty strong argument for him- I think the bullpen has become even more important this year.
It definitely can’t be argued that it hasn’t been effective so far this year, but my only nitpick, as oldjacket notes above, the career numbers definitely say it makes much more sense to use Romo indiscriminately against lefties and righties, and Lopez as a LOOGY only. So far they’ve been used the opposite, with Lopez facing as many RHH as LHH (more, actually, 84 PAs facing RHH and 75 PAs facing LHH), and Romo being used as a right-handed specialist (86 PAs against RHH and 34 against LHH).
I will admit, Lopez passes the eye test against righties this year, and I wonder if he hasn’t figured something out with Rags, but the smart money seems to be against him continuing this success against righties the longer he’s used against them.
"My father's name is art, and my name's pride, and while my destiny reads a recipe for confusion I'm looking for whoever writes, so empty inside." -Slug
Seems like Brown for Beltran is gaining strength
I say no to Beltran if it costs Brown, Wheeler or Belt. Just get what we can on the cheap (Willingham maybe). Go after Reyes and Beltran in the offseason.
Next year:
Reyes SS
Sanchez 2B
Panda 3B
Posey C
Beltran LF
Belt 1B
Ross RF
Torres CF
Bench: Kep, Holtz, Stewart or Whitey, Crawford and Rowand
Well one can dream right?
I would not be happy if Brown is traded for Beltran
by TBRMKane on Jul 23, 2011 10:56 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
nah sabean is a genius he wouldn't do that
by Anonymous1337 on Jul 23, 2011 11:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Wheeler yes, Brown no
Beltran would only be for rental purposes unless he leads us to another WS, but then he would command silly moey in the off-season, so let’s face it – he would be a pricey rental if the “A” prospect we trade blossoms into a stud.
"I always knew I was going to be thrown at. I was old-school, so I didn't care, as long as they hit me from the neck down.'' Hac-Man One Flap down Jeffrey Leonard
by Penitentiary Face on Jul 23, 2011 11:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, even if Tim Alderson were to blossom into a stud, Freddy Sanchez still helped deliver a World Series championship.
by Grizzlie Antagonist on Jul 23, 2011 11:32 PM PDT up reply actions
The year after we acquired him in a trade, when we could’ve signed him as a free agent.
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
While possible, Sanchez had no reason to sign with the Giants after that season if he had stayed with the Pirates or been traded elsewhere. Being with the team for a couple of months absolutely has an effect on where he signs. Besides, didn’t Sanchez have a team option for the following season? The Pirates weren’t going to pick it up, but if he was traded elsewhere the new team might have.
Buster Posey: still better than Eli and Stewart, even with a broken ankle.
Yeah, I’m operating under the assumption that if he hadn’t been traded to the Giants then he would’ve been a FA at the end of the season since the Pirates weren’t going to pick up that option. And then we could have bid on his services. And yes, I think his presence for a few months in ‘09 probably helped sign him for as relatively cheaply as the Giants were able to. But the point is that he didn’t help TGWTWS until after they hypothetically could’ve acquired him for cash, rather than cash + prospect.
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
If we signed Sanchez as a FA, we would have lost the pick that became Gary Brown.
by kingofthacove on Jul 24, 2011 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions
Only if he’d been offered arbitration by the Pirates. Given that they didn’t want to pick up his $6 MM team option, I doubt they would’ve offered him arbitration knowing that he’d get a larger salary than that.
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
I thought Brown couldn't be traded 'til mid-August
which is quite a ways away
Brian Wilson: "Don't Quote Me"
Buster Posey: "I Ain't Havin' It"
Pat Burrell: "The Patural"
Aubrey Huff: "Let's Get Weird"
by slackersphere17 on Jul 23, 2011 11:40 PM PDT up reply actions
We gotta hold on, to what we got
Atta babe, good pick.
We got E. Burriss, and that's a lot for lulz
Atta babe, good pick.
We are half way there, whoa-o-livin' on a prayer
"I always knew I was going to be thrown at. I was old-school, so I didn't care, as long as they hit me from the neck down.'' Hac-Man One Flap down Jeffrey Leonard
by Penitentiary Face on Jul 23, 2011 11:32 PM PDT up reply actions
obligatory JETER post
i didn’t see this when it was on the air originally, but i thought this was pretty funny / ironic or whatever..
http://www.hulu.com/watch/124970/saturday-night-live-derek-jeter-monologue
Bruce Bochy: Leave him alone, he's the Manager Man and his BORK is much worse than his bite.
by zodiac_chiller on Jul 23, 2011 11:11 PM PDT reply actions
I think Brian Wilson should host SNL.
"A Giants game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings."
by GIANT stoner on Jul 24, 2011 1:09 AM PDT up reply actions
it seems inevitable
Back on the market.
by positiveuphemism on Jul 24, 2011 1:24 AM PDT up reply actions
Baggs
I’m pretty sure the Giants would not sacrifice Zack Wheeler, Gary Brown or Brandon Belt to get Carlos Beltran. But would they cross the bridge with Runzler and maybe Francisco Peguero? Would that be enough for the Mets?
I would do that trade.
I bet that if the Giants make the deal, Runzler or Peguero will end up as the centerpiece.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
not nec at jponry
but as logical a place as any: who gets out of the way to make room for Beltran? Do they pay Burrell to go away, or include Nate in the deal?
Not advocating either, just wondering where he is supposed to fit in.
May 29, 2010: Steven Revetria becomes Giants General Manager. The rest is history.
"118 elements, and still no stanfurdium"- carp, paraphrased
Bandwagons are fun- that's why people get on them in the first place.
by natteringnabob on Jul 23, 2011 11:28 PM PDT up reply actions
We started this conversation above and it got kind of ugly!
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
all of them are tonight
I missed the break-out of the Beltran rumors so I dunno where the roster spots are supposed to open up in this particular rosterbatory scenario.
May 29, 2010: Steven Revetria becomes Giants General Manager. The rest is history.
"118 elements, and still no stanfurdium"- carp, paraphrased
Bandwagons are fun- that's why people get on them in the first place.
by natteringnabob on Jul 23, 2011 11:31 PM PDT up reply actions
I’d say play Beltran every day in LF and then rotate Ross / Torres / Schierholtz in the other two positions.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
HOW DARE YOU BLARGH!!!!!
Where do they make room on the 25 man for him? They’re not paying Rowand to go away.
May 29, 2010: Steven Revetria becomes Giants General Manager. The rest is history.
"118 elements, and still no stanfurdium"- carp, paraphrased
Bandwagons are fun- that's why people get on them in the first place.
by natteringnabob on Jul 23, 2011 11:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Probably send down Belt. :(
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
I suppose so
damn them and their insistence on burning every option.
May 29, 2010: Steven Revetria becomes Giants General Manager. The rest is history.
"118 elements, and still no stanfurdium"- carp, paraphrased
Bandwagons are fun- that's why people get on them in the first place.
by natteringnabob on Jul 23, 2011 11:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Well that’s not really how options work. You can only use one per year, no matter how many times you send a guy down.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
This baseball thing is pretty cool
I know how they work, I just mean it seems like the Giants insist on cramming whoever has an option year back down into the minors until they have no options left.
May 29, 2010: Steven Revetria becomes Giants General Manager. The rest is history.
"118 elements, and still no stanfurdium"- carp, paraphrased
Bandwagons are fun- that's why people get on them in the first place.
by natteringnabob on Jul 23, 2011 11:41 PM PDT up reply actions
I reckon . . .
. .. . that at least this year they’re often between a rock and a hard place. As an example, when Bill Hall becomes ready, who gets what? Do they just cut Hall, or do they option Burriss? Even disregarding their probably inability to properly distinguish the two, I’d suspect Burriss, with the option, gets sent down.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
They could keep Hall in the minors till the rosters expand.
Buster Posey: still better than Eli and Stewart, even with a broken ankle.
I’m guessing Hall doesn’t have any options, so he could just walk if they sent him down.
(Whether you view this as a good thing or a bad thing depends on your level of veteran fetishism.)
Thing C
Hall could walk, but why would he? He was already released once this year. I doubt he wants to sit by the phone again.
Buster Posey: still better than Eli and Stewart, even with a broken ankle.
Maybe he’s been to Fresno before.
May 29, 2010: Steven Revetria becomes Giants General Manager. The rest is history.
"118 elements, and still no stanfurdium"- carp, paraphrased
Bandwagons are fun- that's why people get on them in the first place.
by natteringnabob on Jul 24, 2011 9:11 AM PDT up reply actions
It may have to do with veteran fetishism versus vroom fetsishism. But it could come down to just who you think is a better ball player, and more likely to contribute from the 25th spot on the roster, while maintaining maximum depth this year. I’d say keep Hall over Burriss for those reasons. But add in other pieces (a trade, a DeRosa) and Hall is probably sent to the minors.
Does Hall have any options left?
Please don't cut Ishikawa! 2009 Tops All-Star Rookie and World Champ 2010!
I don't think so
but in any case he has more than 6 years of service and can refuse the assignment.
May 29, 2010: Steven Revetria becomes Giants General Manager. The rest is history.
"118 elements, and still no stanfurdium"- carp, paraphrased
Bandwagons are fun- that's why people get on them in the first place.
by natteringnabob on Jul 24, 2011 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions
Why bother having Belt on the big league roster if Bochy won’t play him?
Still the father of two-time Cy Young Award winner Tim Lincecum.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
Grooming him to be the next hitting coach
Bochy “Brandon, sit right here next to me and I will give you a few pointers in the art of hitting”
"I always knew I was going to be thrown at. I was old-school, so I didn't care, as long as they hit me from the neck down.'' Hac-Man One Flap down Jeffrey Leonard
by Penitentiary Face on Jul 23, 2011 11:53 PM PDT up reply actions
True. But . . .
. . . that could be said of more than one man.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
Just look upthread.
My boy Joe Staley plays lineman on Sundays.
"I will never apologize for watching Bonds dominate" – Duane Kuiper
by Soulbrother16 on Jul 23, 2011 11:31 PM PDT up reply actions
I’d give up Rev Runz.
My boy Joe Staley plays lineman on Sundays.
"I will never apologize for watching Bonds dominate" – Duane Kuiper
by Soulbrother16 on Jul 23, 2011 11:22 PM PDT up reply actions
I’d be all over that. Peguero doesn’t excite me much, even though that may be just me
by Artimus Clyde on Jul 23, 2011 11:22 PM PDT up reply actions
I feel the same way, his OBP is pretty terrible.
"He knocks a stake through the heart of the Cardinals! The Cardinals are dead! The Giants are going to the World Series!!!" -Jon Miller
It's Posey time!!
My Adopted Squirrel: Heath Hembree
I would do that trade, but the Mets will not. Take it to the Bank.
It will cost us a “A” prospect. I don’t think Runzler is what the Metropolitans had entertained in their wet dream. DiPodesta, Alderson and JP are thinking bigger than that.
"I always knew I was going to be thrown at. I was old-school, so I didn't care, as long as they hit me from the neck down.'' Hac-Man One Flap down Jeffrey Leonard
by Penitentiary Face on Jul 23, 2011 11:35 PM PDT up reply actions
I’d do that in an instant.
"He knocks a stake through the heart of the Cardinals! The Cardinals are dead! The Giants are going to the World Series!!!" -Jon Miller
It's Posey time!!
My Adopted Squirrel: Heath Hembree
Wilson showed me an Obama T-shirt hanging in his locker, signaling his readiness to meet the POTUS on Monday. Someone also gave him a Mr. Potato Head that has a Gatorade jug for a body. That’s on the shelf of his locker, too, with a Band-aid affixed to it. Nice touch.
As Wilson was putting on his infamous, red Ninja man socks, I asked if he’d wear those to the White House. He said no, you don’t make a show when you’re meeting the Commander in Chief.
Another reporter asked if he would opt for more formal dress.
"Dress? I’m not going to wear a dress," Wilson said. "I’ll wear a nice suit like everybody else. Maybe a power navy blue with a red tie."
Hey, the tie would match his Ninja socks.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
This PGT is way angrier than it really ought to be.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
ANGST ANGST ANGST
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
needs moar booze!…or less booze, I’m not quite sure yet
AT&T Park, Home of the WS Champion SF Giants, and Disneyland-so much MAGIC inside!
Attribute it to the "dog days of summer"
we are all agitated, concerned, preoccupied with the trade deadline looming. We all know that the Giants will either fail to or successfully defend their title with the transactions or lack thereof between now and then. Angst, torture, as familiar as the air we breath yet stinging our lungs.
"I always knew I was going to be thrown at. I was old-school, so I didn't care, as long as they hit me from the neck down.'' Hac-Man One Flap down Jeffrey Leonard
by Penitentiary Face on Jul 23, 2011 11:42 PM PDT up reply actions
FREE BELT
My boy Joe Staley plays lineman on Sundays.
"I will never apologize for watching Bonds dominate" – Duane Kuiper
by Soulbrother16 on Jul 23, 2011 11:26 PM PDT up reply actions
I HATE EVERYTHING EXCEPT SERGIO ROMO
Adopted Giant: Mike Fontenot
He's like Grant, but fun size.
I come here to insult all the dumb people that don’t agree with me! refresh refresh refresh
May 29, 2010: Steven Revetria becomes Giants General Manager. The rest is history.
"118 elements, and still no stanfurdium"- carp, paraphrased
Bandwagons are fun- that's why people get on them in the first place.
by natteringnabob on Jul 23, 2011 11:30 PM PDT up reply actions
I blame Nyjer Morgan
Jonathan Sanchez isn’t likely to be traded unless the Giants fall out of contention. Jonathan Sanchez isn’t likely to be traded unless the Giants fall out of contention. Jonathan Sanchez isn’t likely to be traded unless the Giants fall out of contention.
Mark DeRosa is more than the sum of his tendons.
I blame his parents
for naming him after birdseed.
May 29, 2010: Steven Revetria becomes Giants General Manager. The rest is history.
"118 elements, and still no stanfurdium"- carp, paraphrased
Bandwagons are fun- that's why people get on them in the first place.
by natteringnabob on Jul 23, 2011 11:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Here are some corgis dressed for success
"'What would you rather have -- a million dollars or Bochy's head full o' nickels?'" - ABOM
by urea on Jul 23, 2011 11:33 PM PDT up reply actions 5 recs
(Oh man, now that I think about sunglasses, I didn’t mean for this to be a “Deal with it”-type image at all. It was just the first thing I thought of when I wondered what may help ease the tension. :X)
"'What would you rather have -- a million dollars or Bochy's head full o' nickels?'" - ABOM
/lights the Natto signal
Adopted Giant: Mike Fontenot
He's like Grant, but fun size.
I agree. I'm really just here to joke around.
The majority of my life experience tells me that nobody really knows anything, so, like I tell my girlfiend, I’m sick of arguing.
LOUD NOISES
I DON’T KNOW WHY WE’RE SHOUTING
by vibratingsheep on Jul 23, 2011 11:46 PM PDT up reply actions
A good PGT to have been watching HPDH2 during!
(Actually, I had watched that a few hours prior. We were up to Little Mermaid by the PGT.)
Once more, coming to you by proxy.
by howtheyscored on Jul 24, 2011 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions
In short on HP, though: It was good. It’s entertainment. And it’s not hard to follow at all, because they pretty much just saved the Battle of Hogwarts for this one. That said, more of this one was clearly laughable than some of the others. And not intentionally so. Which, at least, is part of the entertainment value here. Spoilerless opinions ahead!
I still think they really messed up Voldemort in the movies. He’s not even not-scary in the right ways. He’s just distracting.
But McGonngall is awesome.
Bellatrix’s duel was lame.
And I’m honestly shocked they even bothered with that last scene.
Oh, Snape.
Once more, coming to you by proxy.
by howtheyscored on Jul 24, 2011 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions
his hug with draco was the most bizarre thing
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
I found it just slightly less bizarre than Draco’s epilogue beard.
Once more, coming to you by proxy.
by howtheyscored on Jul 24, 2011 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions
This thread is tense. Can we all calm down and agree that Zoroastrianism is the One True Religion?
GROUGTHINK ALERT
This baseball thing is pretty cool
It’s tense because we’ve been reduced to raging about nerds and their stats, mom’s basement type arguments.
And sooner or later, some people will take offense to that, especially when used to illustrate anecdotal tales without supporting facts.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
Kudos, You are a sick, sick man, but you are very good at it -- wcw
How about we agree on Zoroastrianism, but celebrate by cracking each
other’s heads open and feasting on the goo inside?
/Brockman
this kind of
rosicrucianism is more than I can take.
May 29, 2010: Steven Revetria becomes Giants General Manager. The rest is history.
"118 elements, and still no stanfurdium"- carp, paraphrased
Bandwagons are fun- that's why people get on them in the first place.
by natteringnabob on Jul 23, 2011 11:43 PM PDT up reply actions
I am a Pastafarian.
"Campeones." - Andres Torres
Please follow my Twitter
by Murray, Present on Jul 23, 2011 11:45 PM PDT up reply actions
/dons collander
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
Can’t…resist…the grougthink.
My boy Joe Staley plays lineman on Sundays.
"I will never apologize for watching Bonds dominate" – Duane Kuiper
by Soulbrother16 on Jul 24, 2011 12:04 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't really want Beltran unless we get rid of Rowand somehow
"Campeones." - Andres Torres
Please follow my Twitter
by Murray, Present on Jul 23, 2011 11:41 PM PDT reply actions
I don’t care about Rowand. If there is a Beltran, Rowand is definitely 4/5th outfielder. So I don’t have to care about him. I can hope for the occasional dingerz.exe and laugh at his stance 2-8 PAs per week,
Please don't cut Ishikawa! 2009 Tops All-Star Rookie and World Champ 2010!
But I fear Bochy will nail Torres permanently to the bench.
"Campeones." - Andres Torres
Please follow my Twitter
by Murray, Present on Jul 23, 2011 11:44 PM PDT up reply actions
the probability of both of those transactions occurring
between now and seasons end are highly unlikely. Please select one or the other.
"I always knew I was going to be thrown at. I was old-school, so I didn't care, as long as they hit me from the neck down.'' Hac-Man One Flap down Jeffrey Leonard
by Penitentiary Face on Jul 23, 2011 11:44 PM PDT up reply actions
well, as much as I'd love to keep reading the RAGE on a nite that added to the W side...
I’m out!
have a lovely evening McCoven…try not to kill each other! {muah}
AT&T Park, Home of the WS Champion SF Giants, and Disneyland-so much MAGIC inside!
Instead of joining in the rage, I’m watching Hoosiers on HBO. Unfortunately, Coach Norman Dale’s rage isn’t helping the situation.
I guess what I’m saying is, I think it’s time to run the ol’ Picket Fence on ’em.
"Friends, San Franciscans, Countrymen....Humm Baby."
by The Nuschlerian Candidate on Jul 23, 2011 11:57 PM PDT up reply actions
It’s obvious isn’t it? Don’t get caught watching the paint dry.
"Friends, San Franciscans, Countrymen....Humm Baby."
by The Nuschlerian Candidate on Jul 24, 2011 12:08 AM PDT up reply actions
is that like beating the bishop?
"I always knew I was going to be thrown at. I was old-school, so I didn't care, as long as they hit me from the neck down.'' Hac-Man One Flap down Jeffrey Leonard
by Penitentiary Face on Jul 24, 2011 12:03 AM PDT up reply actions
Dennis Hopper as "Shooter"
AHEM
"Friends, San Franciscans, Countrymen....Humm Baby."
by The Nuschlerian Candidate on Jul 24, 2011 12:04 AM PDT up reply actions
great movie, but second fave Hopper movie next to Easy Rider
"I always knew I was going to be thrown at. I was old-school, so I didn't care, as long as they hit me from the neck down.'' Hac-Man One Flap down Jeffrey Leonard
by Penitentiary Face on Jul 24, 2011 12:08 AM PDT up reply actions
HEINEKEN?
"Friends, San Franciscans, Countrymen....Humm Baby."
by The Nuschlerian Candidate on Jul 24, 2011 12:12 AM PDT up reply actions
May I just point this out?
Maybe it’s just me, but it doesn’t seem like something that should inspire spasms of reeling and writhing.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
by owlcroft on Jul 23, 2011 11:56 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
I know you're chasm'ing...
But some of us old-timers still remember the Dennis Martinez trade-that-wasn’t-made in ’93 that resulted in Salomon Fucking Torres to start game #162.
Consequently, I still feel trigger-happy whenever the trade deadline comes around. Good thing I’m not a GM or Beltran would be here at almost any price. Upton & Reyes too!
I need a cigarrete now.
Well, I by no means think the Giants are a lock. It is just really tough for one player to make the difference between making the playoffs and not making the playoffs.
I agree.
It seems that, for the most part, fall into 1 of 2 camps:
“I’d lose sleep if I didn’t make a deal and the Giants lost the division by 1 game on a Huff 4-3 / Rowand whiff.” – The What Could’ve Been Scenario
or
“I’ll lose sleep when Wheeler / Surkamp / Belt haunts us for years after the Yankees pillage our current talent.” – The What Will Inevitably Be scenario.
…
My psychiatrist says I’m getting better!
Or the franchise remains fallow for years because all their minor league prospects were traded off, have no money to sign free agents because they’re all tied up with Cain and Timmy, and can’t afford to keep them, Panda, Posey, MadBaum and the bullpen together.
by Dingoes Ate My Baby on Jul 24, 2011 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions
MadBaum?
"Lee pitches...Renteria hits a high drive, deep left-center field, David Murphy going back, he's on the warning track—it is...go-one!"
You rub madbaum on your skin when you get angry!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Jul 24, 2011 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions
MADBALM!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Jul 24, 2011 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions
lol our run differential
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
hey at least it's solidly positive now
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
i had a spasm of reeling and writhing once
by Lies and Perfidy on Jul 23, 2011 11:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh, snap.
I was hoping someone would catch the reference. gallo, gallo, whither art thou?
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
I learned reeling and writhing in elementary school.
I was taught by a mock turtle.
"Campeones." - Andres Torres
Please follow my Twitter
by Murray, Present on Jul 24, 2011 12:02 AM PDT up reply actions
Ah, there: thank you.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
Didn't realize we had a better RD than Arizona
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, future CF for the World Champion San Francisco Giants.
"And besides, if I wanted to participate in a mindless patriotic ritual where my voice isn’t really heard, I would vote." - Chris Marcil
At least we have scored more runs than the Dodgers!
They'll put a man on the moon before I hit a home run. ~ Gaylord Perry
by calgiants86 on Jul 24, 2011 12:10 AM PDT up reply actions
holy hannah sometimes I forget what a swing that man had
beautiful and terrible both
If he wanted to get back with the Giants, would you take him now?
Say the Beltran deal doesn’t happen
let's ask your question another way
if you could see Aubrey the 43 machine hitting 4th in your lineup tomorrow or a question mark of a possibly faded Barry, which would you take?
"I always knew I was going to be thrown at. I was old-school, so I didn't care, as long as they hit me from the neck down.'' Hac-Man One Flap down Jeffrey Leonard
by Penitentiary Face on Jul 24, 2011 12:10 AM PDT up reply actions
Is that supposed to be a question?
Other than rhetorical?
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
It's a real question for which I'd expect answers with a lot of contingencies
attached to them. Not rhetorical at all, just wondering what people’s thoughts are on the subject.
Reality… I’m pretty sure Barry would suck.
"Friends, San Franciscans, Countrymen....Humm Baby."
by The Nuschlerian Candidate on Jul 24, 2011 12:30 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, his health would be the main issue.
His legal problems would be another, of course.
What I do know was that he had one helluva good eye at the plate. I’d love to see him take BP again just to see if he still has it.
Another interesting question: Would he be willing to take a back seat in the clubhouse? His role would be reduced to a pinch hitter. With most of the team sporting WS rings I doubt anyone would be willing to put up with his BS.
"Friends, San Franciscans, Countrymen....Humm Baby."
by The Nuschlerian Candidate on Jul 24, 2011 12:36 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, I would be worried about disrupting the clubhouse chemistry.
But I have noticed that Barry is going out of his way to be friendlier with the organization and fans since he’s been gone. Maybe he’s fallen more in love with the game again in its absence.
My thought . . .
. . . is that his “irascibility” was largely or wholly with the media, who then created—in retaliation—this image of a grouchy bastard whose teammates hated him. Saving Jeff Kent (aka “Mr. Congeniality”), I never saw any Giant (or, to my dim memory, any other ball player) show anything but affability toward him, and vice-versa.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
I've always thought his reputation was probably an exaggeration, too
Honestly, it didn’t make a whole lot of sense that a guy who was that good, and so well-loved by fans, could be such a “jerk,” anecdotes notwithstanding.
What I meant was his role would no longer be “Team Leader” and ultra supreme ruler of the clubhouse. The team obviously has a different personality now and he would have to fit into that, not vice versa.
"Friends, San Franciscans, Countrymen....Humm Baby."
by The Nuschlerian Candidate on Jul 24, 2011 12:47 AM PDT up reply actions
One can never know . . .
. . . but my gut feeling is that he would work in fine. He would be a sort of elder statesman, which ought to play well on both sides.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
From Wikipedia
“If he ever returns to Major League Baseball, Bonds would be within close range of several significant hitting milestones: he needs just 65 hits to reach 3,000, 4 runs batted in to reach 2,000, and 38 home runs to reach 800. He needs 69 more runs scored to move past Rickey Henderson as the all-time runs champion, and 37 extra base hits to move past Hank Aaron as the all-time extra base hits champion.”
That (fleet of) ship(s) has sailed…
"Friends, San Franciscans, Countrymen....Humm Baby."
by The Nuschlerian Candidate on Jul 24, 2011 12:56 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, he’d be smart enough to blend in and play his role.
"Friends, San Franciscans, Countrymen....Humm Baby."
by The Nuschlerian Candidate on Jul 24, 2011 12:55 AM PDT up reply actions
In this I can say you are mistaken. He was always supremely talented and also either very charming or difficult to deal with, depending on how he felt about you. I formed this opinion while he was still in high school, and without any media intermediaries.
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Jul 24, 2011 9:18 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'd think . . .
. . . the initial answer would be “till he plays himself out of it”. Mind, at this stage, it would probably take him so long to get back into everyday shape that it might mean this season is not possible, but then again maybe not: he keeps in shape, and though the old phrase “roll out of bed and hit” is usually hyperbole, with him it might not be far from truth.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
No least idea.
It is true that legs are the first thing to go—ask any coach or manager who throws BP. (But a modest-paced trot is probably all he would most often need.)
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
It may have something to do with how young I was, but I remember it being magical.
My boy Joe Staley plays lineman on Sundays.
"I will never apologize for watching Bonds dominate" – Duane Kuiper
by Soulbrother16 on Jul 24, 2011 12:07 AM PDT up reply actions
I wasn't young
But trust me it was magical. I knew he was juiced, but the fascination was seeing how good a human could be at hitting a baseball.
by deadlinenow on Jul 24, 2011 12:20 AM PDT up reply actions
Juiced, shmoosed.
Whether he did or didn’t actually take them has nothing to do with his accomplishments. Steroids were their era’s corked bats: a dirty, shameful secret “cheating” that actually accomplished zunt.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
I agree to a point
I was most astonished by his ability to get around so fast. And from what I’ve read the stuf he was does superhuman things to your eyes and reflexes. But then I think it’s no different from vitamins or protein powder. Then I think about the role-model-for-kids issue. Then my head starts to hurt and I go back to admiring his swing.
by deadlinenow on Jul 24, 2011 12:30 AM PDT up reply actions
Right. I loved Barry, but the numbers he put up at an age when he should have been winding down were almost comical. 73 home runs, batting champon? C’mon, the ’roids had a huge effect.
Buster Posey: still better than Eli and Stewart, even with a broken ankle.
I take back nothing in cheering on Bonds as he gave me some of the biggest baseball thrills of my life but to me, 73 and 762 come with a big, fat, asterisk.
by Dingoes Ate My Baby on Jul 24, 2011 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions
I don’t see it as any different from amphetamines or whatever.
"Lee pitches...Renteria hits a high drive, deep left-center field, David Murphy going back, he's on the warning track—it is...go-one!"
amphetamines don’t let some guy nearing 40 hit home runs like nobody has ever seen before. And amphetamines don’t suddenly create a bunch of players hit more home runs than ever produced at one time or throw 100 mph fastballs than at any time either. Again, seeing Bonds duel Eric Gagne (total juicer) in the bottom of the 9th was one of the best things I’ve ever seen at a ballpark but it doesn’t change the fact there was a whole bunch of dodgy things going on there.
by Dingoes Ate My Baby on Jul 24, 2011 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions
Have you . . .
. . . actually visited and spent some time at the link provided?
As Professor Arthur DeVany remarked in his paper “”http://steroids-and-baseball.com/DeVany.old/DeVanyHomeRunMS.pdf" target="new">Steroids, Home Runs and the Law of Genius", There is no evidence that steroid use has altered home-run hitting and those who argue otherwise are profoundly ignorant of the statistics of home runs, the physics of baseball, and of the physiological effects of steroids.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
Let's try that again:
Professor Arthur DeVany remarked in his paper “Steroids, Home Runs and the Law of Genius”.
Thank you yet again SBN for your invaluable, if severely unwanted, help in formatting.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
I’m in the very small camp that thinks “role models” should come from within a child’s neighborhood, somebody they can see, hear, feel and talk to, on a regular basis. Some dude on a screen shouldn’t be a role model. Then again I work with very small children and they need the immediacy, I don’t know nuthin ’bout no teenagers.
Finally, something we all can agree on.
My boy Joe Staley plays lineman on Sundays.
"I will never apologize for watching Bonds dominate" – Duane Kuiper
by Soulbrother16 on Jul 24, 2011 12:07 AM PDT up reply actions
Happy Birthday Barry!
They'll put a man on the moon before I hit a home run. ~ Gaylord Perry
by calgiants86 on Jul 24, 2011 12:11 AM PDT up reply actions
whoa, did greening this turn Bonds slightly green too?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
Looks like it
Might be one of those optical illusion things though.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, future CF for the World Champion San Francisco Giants.
"And besides, if I wanted to participate in a mindless patriotic ritual where my voice isn’t really heard, I would vote." - Chris Marcil
:O Rec is magic.
"'What would you rather have -- a million dollars or Bochy's head full o' nickels?'" - ABOM
but [rec] was scary
Sometimes you just have to look death in the face and say whatever man
Proud parent of Jeff Keppinger's better half
by operation carrot on Jul 24, 2011 1:21 AM PDT up reply actions
HULK ANGRY
Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.
Man I miss him.
"He knocks a stake through the heart of the Cardinals! The Cardinals are dead! The Giants are going to the World Series!!!" -Jon Miller
It's Posey time!!
My Adopted Squirrel: Heath Hembree
Tonight in the car my dad and I were trying to explain Barry Bonds’s swing to my brother. We couldn’t do it because words don’t serve to describe it.
"Lee pitches...Renteria hits a high drive, deep left-center field, David Murphy going back, he's on the warning track—it is...go-one!"
Truly well put.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
THAT'S AWESOME!
There's a First for Everything:
Edgar Renteria, The First World Series MVP in Giants History.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, future CF for the World Champion San Francisco Giants.
"And besides, if I wanted to participate in a mindless patriotic ritual where my voice isn’t really heard, I would vote." - Chris Marcil
by marcello on Jul 24, 2011 12:08 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
And beautiful.
"'What would you rather have -- a million dollars or Bochy's head full o' nickels?'" - ABOM
Sorry, can't read the whole thread
What’s the whole anger about?
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, future CF for the World Champion San Francisco Giants.
"And besides, if I wanted to participate in a mindless patriotic ritual where my voice isn’t really heard, I would vote." - Chris Marcil
WHOLE WHOLE WHOLE
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, future CF for the World Champion San Francisco Giants.
"And besides, if I wanted to participate in a mindless patriotic ritual where my voice isn’t really heard, I would vote." - Chris Marcil
a whole anger
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
two whole angers! three whole angers!
Just imagine this in the voice of Sesame Street’s Count.
AH AH AH
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, future CF for the World Champion San Francisco Giants.
"And besides, if I wanted to participate in a mindless patriotic ritual where my voice isn’t really heard, I would vote." - Chris Marcil
I just glanced over it.
Seems to be about a certain Antogonist
They'll put a man on the moon before I hit a home run. ~ Gaylord Perry
by calgiants86 on Jul 24, 2011 12:15 AM PDT up reply actions
*antagonist
They'll put a man on the moon before I hit a home run. ~ Gaylord Perry
by calgiants86 on Jul 24, 2011 12:16 AM PDT up reply actions
OBAMA!
makes me angry just typing that
Brian Wilson: "Don't Quote Me"
Buster Posey: "I Ain't Havin' It"
Pat Burrell: "The Patural"
Aubrey Huff: "Let's Get Weird"
by slackersphere17 on Jul 24, 2011 12:55 AM PDT up reply actions
Wow. What the hell was that thing Casilla used to strike out Fielder. Wicked. Affeldt’s strikeout pitch to sunglasses at night was also sweeet.
by non sequitur on Jul 24, 2011 12:45 AM PDT up reply actions
On the other hand the flyout Casilla got to end the sixth was on a hanging breaking ball. Fortunately the batter was Yuniesky Betancourt.
by non sequitur on Jul 24, 2011 12:49 AM PDT up reply actions
Do not . . .
. . . watch Casilla pitch if you are putting off a fairly urgent trip to the toilet.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
I saw Sunglasses at Night crossing the street from Momo’s to go to the park today. I was disappointed to note that he doesn’t even wear sunglasses in the daytime!
@legaleagle88
Giants Baseball: Why Not?
I thought Nate Schierholtz was cool before it was cool to think Nate Schierholtz was cool.
He looks like he’s six-foot-eight and weights 100 pounds.
by non sequitur on Jul 24, 2011 3:04 AM PDT up reply actions
I think he will be in the top 5 hitters on the team.
Possibly even the top 3. I think Pablo will end the year with the best numbers.
They'll put a man on the moon before I hit a home run. ~ Gaylord Perry
by calgiants86 on Jul 24, 2011 12:17 AM PDT up reply actions
Pablo is still the best hitter
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
Agreed. Who is the second best though?
They'll put a man on the moon before I hit a home run. ~ Gaylord Perry
by calgiants86 on Jul 24, 2011 12:18 AM PDT up reply actions
Posey or Burrell
wRC+, min 100 PA: Sandoval 134, Posey 114, Burrell 113, Schierholtz and Ross tied with 111
So besides Posey PtB is our best hitter?
Somehow this doesn’t feel right. I think Nate would be next.
They'll put a man on the moon before I hit a home run. ~ Gaylord Perry
by calgiants86 on Jul 24, 2011 12:21 AM PDT up reply actions
As far as just hitting goes, Burrell seems like the obvious choice. But as an overall player, I’d go with Nate so far this year.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
though after today
Schierholtz is probably up with Burrell in terms of wRC+
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
No doubt at all, he knows how to hit the ball.
They'll put a man on the moon before I hit a home run. ~ Gaylord Perry
by calgiants86 on Jul 24, 2011 12:24 AM PDT up reply actions
not even close with the bat
2009-11 wRC+: Burrell 123, Sandoval 120, Posey 119, Torres 118, Huff 115.. Schierholtz 88.
Naughty, naughty.
Using that math stuff.
In fairness to Schierholtz, not a lot should count except his time of everyday play in 2011. Regrettably, that means that the sample size is till rather small for definite conclusions, but he has done quite well in limited-time “auditions” in the past, so I at least think it’s reasonably like his true level. But we need more time to be positive.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
his time in the minors counts plenty
age 22, AA, wRC+ 112
age 23, AAA, 132
age 24, AAA, 137
Take the usual 25% off the top for the jump to the majors, then add whatever development you think he had left after age 24 and you come up with an expectation close to or slightly below his 2011 line.
but in terms of production thus far this season
Nate is certainly a reasonable choice
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
I'm willing to believe it.
I used to have my own translation stuff, but it’s been in mothballs for many years. But that sounds like at least first-cut right.
I think (as do, I believe, many here) that the Giants severely fucked not only Schierholtz but themselves by refusing to find out for sure what he could do early on.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
first-cut is all I shoot for
I dunno if they messed with his development, but the pinch-hitter effect exists.
Oh, indeed it does.
His treatment was such as is fairly described by “shameful”.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
I sure hope Belt isn't heading down this same route,
waiting on gritty veterans to retire or get injured before he gets regular playing time to see what his real worth is.
I know it’s a bit of a “freak-out” opinion given he has only been on the team (post-DL) a few days now. But that’s because it’s really, irrationally, FREAKING ME OUT.
I'd probably pick Schierholtz
but Burrell is up there
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
The bullpen
"Friends, San Franciscans, Countrymen....Humm Baby."
by The Nuschlerian Candidate on Jul 24, 2011 12:20 AM PDT up reply actions
j/k
Of the not out-for-the-season hitters, I’d go with Nate.
"Friends, San Franciscans, Countrymen....Humm Baby."
by The Nuschlerian Candidate on Jul 24, 2011 12:21 AM PDT up reply actions
He hits triples.
They'll put a man on the moon before I hit a home run. ~ Gaylord Perry
by calgiants86 on Jul 24, 2011 12:22 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, he has no career triples.
Maybe a double+error? I don’t remember.
My adopted Giant, the young Reinier Roibal
He has a double this season
By the way, I love you in hummus!
"Friends, San Franciscans, Countrymen....Humm Baby."
by The Nuschlerian Candidate on Jul 24, 2011 12:25 AM PDT up reply actions
Maybe it was a double
They'll put a man on the moon before I hit a home run. ~ Gaylord Perry
by calgiants86 on Jul 24, 2011 12:28 AM PDT up reply actions
Pablo is so great.
"Lee pitches...Renteria hits a high drive, deep left-center field, David Murphy going back, he's on the warning track—it is...go-one!"
Pablo's ressurgence and Nate's developed hitting prowess
have saved us. No it wasn’t re-signing Huff or finding an every day MLB shortstop and overpaying for him, it was looking within and expecting more from our own home growned talent.
"I always knew I was going to be thrown at. I was old-school, so I didn't care, as long as they hit me from the neck down.'' Hac-Man One Flap down Jeffrey Leonard
by Penitentiary Face on Jul 24, 2011 12:24 AM PDT up reply actions
what kind of question is that?
are you trying to figure out if one of Nate’s parents is a McCoven?
"I always knew I was going to be thrown at. I was old-school, so I didn't care, as long as they hit me from the neck down.'' Hac-Man One Flap down Jeffrey Leonard
by Penitentiary Face on Jul 24, 2011 12:25 AM PDT up reply actions
Well, I'll be damned if those boys from Hickory didn't win AGAIN.
They keep this up and they might just go all the way!
"Friends, San Franciscans, Countrymen....Humm Baby."
by The Nuschlerian Candidate on Jul 24, 2011 12:28 AM PDT reply actions
In all fairness, has there been any mention of the actual game?
"Friends, San Franciscans, Countrymen....Humm Baby."
by The Nuschlerian Candidate on Jul 24, 2011 12:51 AM PDT up reply actions
i'm surprised nobody brought up Wolf's phantom swing
WTF WAS THAT SHIT!!!?
Brian Wilson: "Don't Quote Me"
Buster Posey: "I Ain't Havin' It"
Pat Burrell: "The Patural"
Aubrey Huff: "Let's Get Weird"
by slackersphere17 on Jul 24, 2011 12:58 AM PDT up reply actions
/RAGE
"Friends, San Franciscans, Countrymen....Humm Baby."
by The Nuschlerian Candidate on Jul 24, 2011 12:59 AM PDT up reply actions
Randy Wolf took a called strike, but with the bat still on his shoulder he kind of simulated a swing through with his front (right) hand. It was weird. The kind of thing you might see someone do between swings in BP. Timmy and MadBum were caught on camera chuckling at him and of course Kuip said it was the weirdest thing he’d ever seen.
"Friends, San Franciscans, Countrymen....Humm Baby."
by The Nuschlerian Candidate on Jul 24, 2011 1:03 AM PDT up reply actions
Which of his ABs was this? I gotta check it out when the game becomes available in the mlb.com archives.
by non sequitur on Jul 24, 2011 1:04 AM PDT up reply actions
first I think
Brian Wilson: "Don't Quote Me"
Buster Posey: "I Ain't Havin' It"
Pat Burrell: "The Patural"
Aubrey Huff: "Let's Get Weird"
by slackersphere17 on Jul 24, 2011 1:06 AM PDT up reply actions
The very first pitch of his first AB, leading off the third. It didn’t even look like an involuntary reaction. Like, hey, for laughs, I’m going to “swing” with just my front arm.
by non sequitur on Jul 24, 2011 2:09 AM PDT up reply actions
I kind of think that might be a great idea… maybe it’s easier to keep the bat from entering the hitting zone if you do that rather than try to check the swing.
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Jul 24, 2011 9:23 AM PDT up reply actions
#10’s defense on Jimmy Chitwood’s final shot was atrocious.
"Friends, San Franciscans, Countrymen....Humm Baby."
by The Nuschlerian Candidate on Jul 24, 2011 12:50 AM PDT reply actions
Great win tonight for our boys in Orange and Black!!!
By the way, I just found out that the Philly Phanatic is a pervert ……
"A Giants game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings."
by GIANT stoner on Jul 24, 2011 1:01 AM PDT reply actions 5 recs
i think the 109 degree humid weather isn’t helping whoever is inside that costume. lol!
"A Giants game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings."
by GIANT stoner on Jul 24, 2011 1:07 AM PDT up reply actions
I think those costumes have integrated cooling systems, not that it would do much when it’s 452 degrees.
May 29, 2010: Steven Revetria becomes Giants General Manager. The rest is history.
"118 elements, and still no stanfurdium"- carp, paraphrased
Bandwagons are fun- that's why people get on them in the first place.
by natteringnabob on Jul 24, 2011 3:31 AM PDT up reply actions
And Wotus just got ejected!
"'What would you rather have -- a million dollars or Bochy's head full o' nickels?'" - ABOM
I like how he almost decked Bochy, when he grabbed him from behind.
"Friends, San Franciscans, Countrymen....Humm Baby."
by The Nuschlerian Candidate on Jul 24, 2011 1:09 AM PDT up reply actions
It seems an interesting precedent . . .
. . . to get ejected for a slight shake of one’s head. I hope Wotus appeals: it would be interesting to see how MLB handles that one.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
Hanley Ramirez...
In a radio appearance with Dan LeBatard (partially transcribed by Matt Forman of the Miami Herald), Jeff Conine said that if it was up to him, the Marlins would trade Hanley Ramirez. Conine might have just been using the interview to vent, but given Conine’s status as a special assistant to Marlins president David Samson, it’s worth wondering if others in the Florida front office feel the same way about the club’s star shortstop.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/07/quick-hits-phillies-darvish-zduriencik-marlins-.html
I’d do a package headlined by Brown or Wheeler for Hanley, if not both. Kick those tires, Sabez!
Adopted Giant: Mike Fontenot
He's like Grant, but fun size.
Right after he kicks Scott Cousins’ ass!
"Friends, San Franciscans, Countrymen....Humm Baby."
by The Nuschlerian Candidate on Jul 24, 2011 1:20 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
if not both?
Pretty sure it would take both +
Sometimes you just have to look death in the face and say whatever man
Proud parent of Jeff Keppinger's better half
by operation carrot on Jul 24, 2011 1:20 AM PDT up reply actions
Anything they want I'd give them
My mind ain't nuthin' but a total blank, I think I'll just stay here and draaank - Merle Haggard
by NuschlerFace on Jul 24, 2011 9:43 AM PDT up reply actions
You're like that girl I knew in high school
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
Kudos, You are a sick, sick man, but you are very good at it -- wcw
LIKE EVERY GIRL YOU KNEW IN HIGH SCHOOL, AMIRITE?
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Jul 24, 2011 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions
I think we know the same girl
My mind ain't nuthin' but a total blank, I think I'll just stay here and draaank - Merle Haggard
by NuschlerFace on Jul 24, 2011 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions
This would be so much better than Beltran
Please don't cut Ishikawa! 2009 Tops All-Star Rookie and World Champ 2010!
depending on what we send them I guess.
Please don't cut Ishikawa! 2009 Tops All-Star Rookie and World Champ 2010!
Send Marlins GM Giants minor league rosters
Pick 3 and let me know
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
If the front office is actually feeling that way
Conine is an idiot devaluing him like that.
The thong is, it happened.
Beware.
Ramirez at first looks like everything you want from Santa Claus for ten Christmases put together, but there are some indicators that the package is developing leaks. I haven’t examined it in detail, but more than one article looking at him has raised some serious red flags. (Quite aside from his head-case issues.) Knowing whether the things being said are valid examinations or just nay-saying when the guy is down would take more looking than I did, but things are being said.
Not that I really think Ramirez is even remotely likely to actually be available, even for a big package.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
LOL CODY RANSOM!
0-5, 2K’s in his first start at 3rd
"I don’t know, just chuck it as hard as you can".-Buster Posey, on how to gun down stolen base attempts
Both Newsday’s David Lennon and the New York Times’ David Waldstein consider the Giants to be the front-runners to land Carlos Beltran.
Lennon said on Twitter Saturday that there was “increasing chatter” around the Mets that Beltran was headed to the Giants, while Waldstein wrote that “some Mets people believe Beltran (is) going to San Francisco.” ESPN’s Buster Olney thinks a deal between the Mets and Giants is not imminent, but he didn’t discount the possibility. The Giants are an
obvious fit for Beltran, as they’re in dire need of some offensive punch.
Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.
LOL Wolf
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
Someone should try this and then drop the bat and start running start to first.
by Seasick fish on Jul 24, 2011 8:30 AM PDT up reply actions
So if this hadn’t been a called strike, would that count as a swing?
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
No, that’s the beauty of it. I’m seriously considering going to the batting cages and seeing if that’s an effective method for checking one’s swing. Well, I’m driving to Oregon today, so, not that serious, but still.
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Jul 24, 2011 9:25 AM PDT up reply actions
It is hard to say
The only rule I know of is 2.00
A STRIKE is a legal pitch when so called by the umpire, which —
(a) Is struck at by the batter and is missed;
What constitutes “struck at by the batter”? MLB umpires have their own supplement to the rules which attempt to clarify ambiguous rules and these are generally available. The supplement may provide guidance on this but it is unclear to me whether what is shown above would be considered “struck at by the batter” or not.
I could see it being interpreted either way.
oops
It should read, are generally unavailable.
Right. I could see that interpreted as a swing, it’s just that he forgot to bring the bat with him.
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
similar to dropping or throwing the bat
at the beginning of the swing but then following through with your hands and body. I’m certain this would be considered a swing by every HPU.
Except the bat stays right there on his shoulder.
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Jul 24, 2011 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions
yup
which is why I don’t know how it would be interpreted.
What about a bunt? Many times the batter has the bat past the plate before pulling it back, yet this is not considered a strike.
This is an extreme example,but what about a hitter that got good at hitting balls with the knob of his bat while the bat was still back (or even still on his shoulder)?
I believe this is why the rule has been kept vague as it would be hard to define what actually constitutes a batter “striking” at a pitch.
An interesting link for baseball rules is at http://baseball-rules.com/myths.htm
The check swing is pretty clearly applied in a very specific way: Does the bat come around.
No, the bat did not come around. There’s not much ambiguity here.
Once more, coming to you by proxy.
by howtheyscored on Jul 24, 2011 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions
Eh. That’s not what the rulebook says though.
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
It’s the standard application. It seems to happen half a dozen times a game, every game, and the application is the same every single time. Every single time. If the bat stays on his shoulder, it will be called a swing 0% of the time, give or take 0 times. I think we’re making more of other possibilities than there realistically can be made.
Once more, coming to you by proxy.
by howtheyscored on Jul 24, 2011 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, but how often does one of the hands come through the zone?
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
I am skeptical of an ump calling a swing where the bat stays on the shoulder.
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Jul 24, 2011 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions
I think the hands probably come through the zone quite often, anyway. Not all the way into a backswing, of course, but we see it often enough where a check swing breaks down and the player has to wrist the bathead back because his hands are traveling too far forward.
Once more, coming to you by proxy.
by howtheyscored on Jul 24, 2011 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions
An extreme example, which probably makes it a bad example.
I just picked this photo because it’s the first one that clearly shows what I mean by the vague description above. If you scale back how incredibly forward everything here is, you can see what I mean by the hands being forward through the zone and the bathead being held back.
Once more, coming to you by proxy.
by howtheyscored on Jul 24, 2011 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions
But the (potential) beauty of letting go of the bat is that everything – including the knob of the bat – stays back except for the empty lead hand.
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Jul 24, 2011 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, I’m in total agreement.
Once more, coming to you by proxy.
by howtheyscored on Jul 24, 2011 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions
What I meant with the above example is that we do see check swings where the hands come through the zone that aren’t called strikes. The photo was admittedly not a good example of the result, unless you mentally scale it back a bit.
Once more, coming to you by proxy.
by howtheyscored on Jul 24, 2011 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions
That was so weird
Time to repeat in '11!
by Myemail21479 on Jul 24, 2011 9:25 AM PDT up reply actions
Today's stuff from Jeff Passan
Giants interested in Nationals SS Ian Desmond. They’re the front runners for Beltran and the name he hears is Francisco Peguero.
Buster Posey: still better than Eli and Stewart, even with a broken ankle.
more from Mlbtraderumor
Yahoo’s Jeff Passan says (via Twitter) the Rangers are “coming hard” for Beltran, though San Francisco is still the frontrunner. Passan singles out Giants prospect Francisco Peguero as one name that may have been discussed.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Brian Lawrence
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
Quote fail
Yahoo’s Jeff Passan says (via Twitter) the Rangers are "coming hard" for Beltran, though San Francisco is still the frontrunner. Passan singles out Giants prospect Francisco Peguero as one name that may have been discussed.
Do not want if the Giants have to give up anyone more than Peguero.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Brian Lawrence
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
Baggs suggested Peguero & Runzler. Apparently, there has been interest in Runzler.
Here.
@legaleagle88
Giants Baseball: Why Not?
I thought Nate Schierholtz was cool before it was cool to think Nate Schierholtz was cool.
Maybe
As RxMeister guessed above there could be a Met prospect thrown into the pot so that the Giants have something left when Beltran goes away. Runzler might be sweetening the pot.
Please don't cut Ishikawa! 2009 Tops All-Star Rookie and World Champ 2010!
The Giants giving them Peguero and taking on most of the contract
Always made the most sense to me. Wheeler or Brown is way too much
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
Beltran has supposedly said he doesn’t want to go to the AL. I don’t think he’s going to the Rangers.
Buster Posey: still better than Eli and Stewart, even with a broken ankle.
I thin a buy low on Ian Desmond would be a great move
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
Why would they be selling him? Is there a hot SS prospect in their system?
Clankmitt aside I would definitely take a chance on him.
Thing C
Herc!
May 29, 2010: Steven Revetria becomes Giants General Manager. The rest is history.
"118 elements, and still no stanfurdium"- carp, paraphrased
Bandwagons are fun- that's why people get on them in the first place.
by natteringnabob on Jul 24, 2011 9:12 AM PDT up reply actions
In a second tweet, Passan says the minor league performance of Stephen Lombardozzi, who Rizzo loves, is one reason Desmond could be available. The 22-year-old has hit .322/.372/.461 in 437 plate appearances this year in Double-A and Triple-A. Desmond, meanwhile, has played well defensively for the Nats, but has seen his OPS slip to .589, down over 100 points from 2010.
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
@JeffPassan Jeff Passan
The Nationals are actively shopping SS Ian Desmond, with San Francisco and Boston among the teams showing interest. Good fit for TB, too.
@AdamKilgoreWP Adam Kilgore
I’m told the exact opposite. Hmmm. RT @JeffPassan The Nationals are actively shopping SS Ian Desmond.
Kilgore also writes for this news paper
So I’m defaulting to rule #1. Never read Jeff Passan.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
Kudos, You are a sick, sick man, but you are very good at it -- wcw
by jctGamer on Jul 24, 2011 8:55 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
That’s a pretty solid rule right there.
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Jul 24, 2011 9:26 AM PDT up reply actions
Oh, well, if Jeff Passan says so.
Once more, coming to you by proxy.
by howtheyscored on Jul 24, 2011 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions
Ian fucking Desmond?
Please tell me that’s someone’s poor idea of a joke. For him to be dreadful, he’d have to improve.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
What have you done mike vick
MikeVick Mike Vick
I would be honored to have Brett Farve as a backup. That will be amazing Learning how to toy with defenses the way he did his whole career.
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
I think he means “learning how to throw interceptions at key moments of the game”
by Dingoes Ate My Baby on Jul 24, 2011 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions
For those who missed it on Friday...
I uploaded the 1:01 PT NPR newscast to zShare.
And I’m slated to be on it again at 2:01 ET/11:01 PT today.
Also, AUBREY HUFF RAR RAR MERITORIOUS OPINIONS RAR RAR
TheLetter2: East Coast Boogaloo
Joe Strauss of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch reports that the Cardinals and White Sox are discussing a trade involving Colby Rasmus.
Strauss writes that negotiations with White Sox GM Kenny Williams “have accelerated in recent days,” and he mentions Edwin Jackson and Matt Thornton, as well as minor league talent, as possibilities to head to St. Louis.
If it only takes Jackson and Thornton to get Rasmus, I feel like we should get in on this. He badly needs a change of scenery and I feel like he’s a potential 5 tool player that’s locked up for another 3 years I believe.
Yah WTF is this
A third starter and a 8th inning guy/maybe closer
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
Agreed.
If it only takes a SP and an RP to get him, we should send the Cardinals Matt Cain and Sergio Romo.
Thing C
Isn’t Jackson a free agent at the end of the year?
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
I wouldn't go that far
but I’d probably trade Sanchez and Affeldt to get Rasmus
His twitter yesterday was funny, I guess that's what he was referring to
JoeStrauss Joe Strauss
It would be irresponsible for me to go public w/what I just heard. But if it goes down … WOW!
JoeStrauss Joe Strauss
Two denials to WOW! Will retract for time being.
JoeStrauss Joe Strauss
WOW! would’ve hit a nerve w/Catds faithful.
JoeStrauss Joe Strauss
I’m hearing Mo’ will not be able to accomplish trade goal w/o subtracting from major-league roster. Developing.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
Kudos, You are a sick, sick man, but you are very good at it -- wcw
/hides under desk
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
wouldn't Sanchez/RamRam/Peguero get it done?
I wouldn’t trade Romo. Ramirez would be the best reliever I’d give up in a deal like this. Maybe Dave Duncan can work some magic with Dirty.
"There was no torture in the end. Only rapture." - Mike Krukow
2010 Giants: World Series Champs
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jul 24, 2011 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions
Why the Rasmus love?
He has had, including this, three seasons of play: dreadful, great, poor. What makes people think that the one out of three is more significant than the two out of three?
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
Breaking news: Player X can hit better than the Giants
Giants are interested in trading for Player X
Time to repeat in '11!
by Myemail21479 on Jul 24, 2011 9:25 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
GIANTS LINKED TO PROFESSOR X
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
Kudos, You are a sick, sick man, but you are very good at it -- wcw
PAT BURRELL LINKED TO PROFESSOR XXX
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
Pat Burrell is Professor XXX
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Brian Lawrence
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
He must battle Dildito to save humanity
Time to repeat in '11!
by Myemail21479 on Jul 24, 2011 9:30 AM PDT up reply actions
Where x = nailed to the bench. Seriously, does anyone think he’s in the lineup today after Aubrey’s perfect night last night?
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
But where would Rowand play against a righty?
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
GIANTS LINKED TO TERMINATOR X
Giants 2010 in review: One Jerry Garcia bobblehead, one world championship. Questions?
Damnit, I should have looked one line down…..
by Dingoes Ate My Baby on Jul 24, 2011 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions
BLOGGER LINKS GIANTS TO RACER X
May 29, 2010: Steven Revetria becomes Giants General Manager. The rest is history.
"118 elements, and still no stanfurdium"- carp, paraphrased
Bandwagons are fun- that's why people get on them in the first place.
by natteringnabob on Jul 24, 2011 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions
ROWAND LINKED TO EXCREMENT
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
by satyricrash on Jul 24, 2011 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions
WTF Ed Wade
While no deal is close, the Diamondbacks have discussed a potential Wandy Rodriguez trade with the Astros, tweets Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports.
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
I bet the Yankees scoop in last minute
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
Kudos, You are a sick, sick man, but you are very good at it -- wcw
and pass up Zito? How dare you.
May 29, 2010: Steven Revetria becomes Giants General Manager. The rest is history.
"118 elements, and still no stanfurdium"- carp, paraphrased
Bandwagons are fun- that's why people get on them in the first place.
by natteringnabob on Jul 24, 2011 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions
LOL U GUYZ
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Jul 24, 2011 9:55 AM PDT reply actions
I’m leaving for the game in 10 minutes. What are the chances that Belt starts today?
My adopted Giant, the young Reinier Roibal
He better
The LHP Kershaw/Huff’s scheduled rest time being over/LHP Wolf excuses were timely and Borky took advantage of them. Today will be a true test.
I think he will be in there, somewhere.
by Sgt. Dingleberry on Jul 24, 2011 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions
Nyjer Morgan: Dumber than your average baseball player.
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
Going to the game this afternoon...
l hope they win this one!
"We didn’t win our independence from the British to watch Aaron Rowand hit this bad"
"There is not seeing the ball well, and then there is that." - David B. Flemming describing an Aaron Rowand AB.
Not sure if this has been posted yet
Fascinating article. I went to Kei Igawa’s page on Baseball-Reference a few days ago and then I realized he’s still around.
"Lee pitches...Renteria hits a high drive, deep left-center field, David Murphy going back, he's on the warning track—it is...go-one!"
racis Natto
that’s Irabu.
May 29, 2010: Steven Revetria becomes Giants General Manager. The rest is history.
"118 elements, and still no stanfurdium"- carp, paraphrased
Bandwagons are fun- that's why people get on them in the first place.
by natteringnabob on Jul 24, 2011 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions
Now I’m going to get excited about getting Beltran for Peguero and he’ll end up going somewhere else or they’ll trade Wheeler for him.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
I really feel like it's Peguero
Trading either your number one pitching prospect or number one hitting prospect for 2 months of beltran, additional 6 mil of payroll, and no compensation pick is absurd.
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
Peguero seems like a very fair return for 2 months of Beltran
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
definitely
he’s a good prospect, but far from a sure thing.
"There was no torture in the end. Only rapture." - Mike Krukow
2010 Giants: World Series Champs
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jul 24, 2011 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions
and
if Brown is the guy for CF, he’s kind of expendable.
May 29, 2010: Steven Revetria becomes Giants General Manager. The rest is history.
"118 elements, and still no stanfurdium"- carp, paraphrased
Bandwagons are fun- that's why people get on them in the first place.
by natteringnabob on Jul 24, 2011 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions
that's my feeling
not that any of these guys are “sure things” but Brown seems to have an approach at the plate that will translate better at the higher levels, plus he plays great CF.
"There was no torture in the end. Only rapture." - Mike Krukow
2010 Giants: World Series Champs
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jul 24, 2011 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions
Sac-Fly for Beltran in the first inning
Also didn’t realize he’s reached base in 28 straight games coming into today.
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
Watching the replay on demand
Since when is Rowand’s walkup music “Money for Nothing?” LOL
Get well soon, Buster & Freddy.
No prospects for Beltran, please.
he's making fun of all of us
and himself.
These are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others. -Groucho Marx
LOL
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
http://news.yahoo.com/photos/leisure-dives-1311106944-slideshow/
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
This and planking seem similarly stupid
"I don’t know, just chuck it as hard as you can".-Buster Posey, on how to gun down stolen base attempts
by LincecumFTK on Jul 24, 2011 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions
Planking is exceptionally stupid
This got a chuckle out of me
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
It’s not even exceptionally stupid. It’s even mediocre in its stupidity.
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Jul 24, 2011 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions
Even!
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Jul 24, 2011 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions
Anyone who thinks defense and base running aren't important
should watch last night’s game again.
Get well soon, Buster & Freddy.
No prospects for Beltran, please.
No way could Huff sit after last night.
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
I’ve had nights like that.
Once more, coming to you by proxy.
by howtheyscored on Jul 24, 2011 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions
LOLINEUP!
Torres CF
Keppinger 2B
Sandoval 3B
Huff 1B
Schirholtz RF
Belt LF
Grant SS
Whiteside C
Bumgarner P
So all Bochy wanted to see from Belt was the 1-pitch out?
You want to see a walk? Then go watch the mailman.
by SeeingStars on Jul 24, 2011 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions
I'll take it
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
Not bad
If Aubrey Huff was more like Aubrey Huff this year that’d be our best lineup. I’d like to see Ross but I guess if you really wanna get Huff going this is a good way to do it.
by Lies and Perfidy on Jul 24, 2011 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't mind this lineup.
They'll put a man on the moon before I hit a home run. ~ Gaylord Perry
by calgiants86 on Jul 24, 2011 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions
I still think Crawford’s defense warrants him playing nearly every day
My mind ain't nuthin' but a total blank, I think I'll just stay here and draaank - Merle Haggard
by NuschlerFace on Jul 24, 2011 11:29 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I’m a bit of a man-whore for air-tight infield play myself, and Grant at SS occasionally is okay. Beats Tejada spelling Crawford any time.
Fontenot is a better hitter and considering our offense, that’s a big deal. Use Crawford like we used Nate and Ishi last year as a defensive guy to bring in towards the end of the game if we have a lead.
by Dingoes Ate My Baby on Jul 24, 2011 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions
hey
this lineup only has one sub-replacement level hitter in it!
May 29, 2010: Steven Revetria becomes Giants General Manager. The rest is history.
"118 elements, and still no stanfurdium"- carp, paraphrased
Bandwagons are fun- that's why people get on them in the first place.
by natteringnabob on Jul 24, 2011 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions
Bumgarner?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
oh duh, Huff.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
Vogelsong is flat out an amazing story
it is time for Belt to take over for Huff
huff and one home run in two months, no thanks, nice signing Sabes, again you fail with the $$$
Trade Sabean/jk...Overthrow the Ydorks...
stick to signing players under 30 sabes
your track record over 30 is HORRIBLE
Trade Sabean/jk...Overthrow the Ydorks...
Vogelsong is over 30
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
minor league deal.
"There was no torture in the end. Only rapture." - Mike Krukow
2010 Giants: World Series Champs
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jul 24, 2011 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions
maybe the worst in MLB
zeets
rowand
renteria
huff
tejada
derosa
Trade Sabean/jk...Overthrow the Ydorks...
Don’t forget the dave roberts, randy johnson abomination.
Follow me on Twitter @MTLJosh
by Montreal Giants Fan on Jul 24, 2011 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions
what was wrong with the randy johnson deal?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
He just sucked. ! year deal i guess so it was ok
Follow me on Twitter @MTLJosh
by Montreal Giants Fan on Jul 24, 2011 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions
besides, he taught them how to win World Series
Buster Posey: still better than Eli and Stewart, even with a broken ankle.
Zeets was Magowan’s doing, Rowand probably was too, Tejada’s a one year deal and Sabean didn’t have much choice on that one and DeRosa was an injury risk but who knew he was that big of an injury risk? As for Huff and Rent, see October 1 last year.
by Dingoes Ate My Baby on Jul 24, 2011 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions
lets see
Rowand- key throw saving a run in the nlcs
Renteria- Game winning homerun in the clinching game of the ws
Huff- First signing was great, resigning was bad
Tejada- Not a whole lot else he could do
Derosa- bad
Zeets- We prolly dont win the west last year without his production as a 5th starter
Lots of over pay: Yes
World Series : Yes
Sometimes you just have to look death in the face and say whatever man
Proud parent of Jeff Keppinger's better half
by operation carrot on Jul 24, 2011 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm with you on most
But can’t accept this one:
Rowand- key throw saving a run in the nlcs
That is cray-z.
He did make a nice throw and did have some nice moments (notice I said moments) in the playoffs, especially as it was obvious Torres needed a game or two off.
by Dingoes Ate My Baby on Jul 24, 2011 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions
good thing we've built from within
stay young, stay strong
Trade Sabean/jk...Overthrow the Ydorks...
Moises Alou and Ray Durham were pretty good. There are a lot more like that.
"Lee pitches...Renteria hits a high drive, deep left-center field, David Murphy going back, he's on the warning track—it is...go-one!"
Ellis Burks.
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Jul 24, 2011 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Lets play a game:
Player A: .235/.290/.359
Player B: .234/.319/.387
Guess the SFGiant! No cheating please..
Follow me on Twitter @MTLJosh
by Montreal Giants Fan on Jul 24, 2011 11:17 AM PDT reply actions
Nope.
Follow me on Twitter @MTLJosh
by Montreal Giants Fan on Jul 24, 2011 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions
Neither are right
Follow me on Twitter @MTLJosh
by Montreal Giants Fan on Jul 24, 2011 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions
Huff is Player A
Follow me on Twitter @MTLJosh
by Montreal Giants Fan on Jul 24, 2011 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions
DING DING DING!!!
ELI FUCKING WHITESIDE HAS A BETTER SLASH LINE THEN AUBREY HUFF!!!!!!!!!!!
Follow me on Twitter @MTLJosh
by Montreal Giants Fan on Jul 24, 2011 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions
There should be a comma before that then.
Once more, coming to you by proxy.
by howtheyscored on Jul 24, 2011 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions
eli's actually been pretty decent as a hitter this year
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
Eli has done as well as he can but for huff to be hitting at his level is a joke.
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by Montreal Giants Fan on Jul 24, 2011 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions
Help! Jambalaya Recipe
In a bowl combine shrimp, chicken and Creole seasoning, and work in seasoning well. In a large saucepan heat oil over high heat with onion, pepper and celery, 3 minutes. Add garlic, tomatoes, bay leaves, Worcestershire and hot sauces. Stir in rice and slowly add broth. Reduce heat to medium and cook until rice absorbs liquid and becomes tender, stirring occasionally, about 15 minutes. When rice is just tender add shrimp and chicken mixture and sausage. Cook until meat is done, about 10 minutes more. Season to taste with salt, pepper and Creole seasoning.
Do I put in rice straight from the bag, or do I use rice cooker first? Being Asian I have never ever just stirred rice into stuff. I’ve always steamed it first.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
Kudos, You are a sick, sick man, but you are very good at it -- wcw
I’ve also toasted the rice bit in a pan with some oil, you could add the rice befroe the Worchestire and hot sauses and accomplish the same thing
Thanks Guys!
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
Kudos, You are a sick, sick man, but you are very good at it -- wcw
pretty sure you’d just put in the rice straight from the bag, seeing as it goes on to say that you’re doing it until rice absorbs liquid and becomes tender
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
Right outta the bag (you may want to rinse it 1st. Also it will take longer than 15 minutes (more like 20-25).
Giants 2010 in review: One Jerry Garcia bobblehead, one world championship. Questions?
I would go with a rinse.
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Jul 24, 2011 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions
If he’s going to use a recipe that starts with 109 cups of uncooked rice- he’d better hope we’re all coming over for dinner!
It’ll be an I Love Lucy episode without the bad laugh track.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcmHUCB0HD4
this is a good recipe
for using converted rice.
And yes, you’re supposed to kind of brown the rice a bit before adding the liquid.0
May 29, 2010: Steven Revetria becomes Giants General Manager. The rest is history.
"118 elements, and still no stanfurdium"- carp, paraphrased
Bandwagons are fun- that's why people get on them in the first place.
by natteringnabob on Jul 24, 2011 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions
SIRM just made a great play at the plate in the Yankees - A's game.
They'll put a man on the moon before I hit a home run. ~ Gaylord Perry
it away from him yeah
Sometimes you just have to look death in the face and say whatever man
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by operation carrot on Jul 24, 2011 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions
Wibbly wobbly.
"Campeones." - Andres Torres
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by Murray, Present on Jul 24, 2011 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Yay Belt
7/24 #sfgiants lineup: Torres cf Keppinger 2b Panda 3b Huff 1b Schierholtz rf Belt lf Fontenot ss Whiteside c Bumgarner sp
Hella.
BREAKING
"Lee pitches...Renteria hits a high drive, deep left-center field, David Murphy going back, he's on the warning track—it is...go-one!"
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