minor lines, 6/26/11
Sunday highlights from the Giants' farm: Roger Kieschnick homered while reaching base in all five plate appearances, Jarrett Parker homered and doubled, Joe Staley homered twice, Mike Kickham had 5.0 scoreless IP, and Lorenzo Mendoza had 9 K and 1 ER in 6.0 IP.
AAA: Fresno lost to Tucson 10-9(scoring five runs in the top of the 9th inning but then allowing three runs in the bottom half)
Fresno: 2B-1B Brett Pill: 3 for 5, 2 2B
Fresno: LF Thomas Neal: 2 for 4, 2B, BB
Fresno: 1B-RF Brad Eldred: 4 for 5
Tucson: RF Aaron Cunningham: 3 for 5, HR, 2B, SO
Fresno: SP Josh Banks: 5.0 IP, 10 H, 7 R, 6 ER, 1 BB, 5 K--1 IBB
Fresno: RP Marc Kroon: 0.2 IP, 1 H, 3 R, 3 ER, 2 BB, 1 K
Neal, Pill, and Eldred combined for nine of the Grizzlies' thirteen hits. Pill had his 21st and 22nd doubles. Eldred's four singles raised his AVG to .281. Neal had just his second multi-hit line in his last eight games. With an XBH/AB ratio below 10%, his power has been less than what is typically expected of a corner outfield prospect in the PCL. The Padres' Cunningham had his 7th HR, which tied the game with two outs in the 9th inning, and his 22nd double.
After four relief appearances (the shortest of which was 3.1 IP), Banks returned to the rotation. With 6 ER, his ERA rose back above 6.00. Kroon suffered the blown save and the loss in the 9th inning, during which he threw just 8 of 19 pitches for strikes.
AA: Richmond defeated Erie 10-1
(scoring eight runs in the 2nd and 3rd innings)
Richmond: DH Francisco Peguero: 3 for 4
Richmond: RF Roger Kieschnick: 2 for 2, HR, 3 BB
Richmond: 3B Chris Dominguez: 3 for 5, 2 2B
Richmond: SP Ryan Verdugo: 5.0 IP, 3 H, 1 R, 1 ER, 3 BB, 4 K--1 WP, 1 PO
Richmond: RP Jason Stoffel: 1.0 IP, 1 H, 1 K--1 HB
Kieschnick had his 8th HR while reaching base in all five plate appearances. With 5 HRs and an OPS above .950 in June, he has improved his season line to .263/.316/.421 through 266 AB. Dominguez had his 7th and 8th doubles, although perhaps the bigger news for him is that he had a single. In ten games since his promotion to the upper minors, he has had 10 XBH and just two singles. Playing his fourth game in the upper minors, Peguero had three hits.
Verdugo bounced back from his past two starts (13 ER in 7.0 IP) with this good start. His BB/IP rate crept a little higher but remains shy of 0.50. He threw 86 pitches (52 strikes). Stoffel pitched a scoreless 8th inning.
A+: San Jose lost to Stockton 9-8
(after trailing 7-2 through two innings)
San Jose: CF Gary Brown: 2 for 5
San Jose: RF Jarrett Parker: 3 for 5, HR, 2B
San Jose: DH Andrew Burg: 2 for 5, 2 2B, SO
San Jose: 3B Jose Flores: 2 for 4, 2 2B
San Jose: SP Craig Westcott: 3.2 IP, 11 H, 9 R, 9 ER, 2 BB, 4 K--1 HR, 1 WP
San Jose: RP Chuck Lofgren: 3.1 IP, 1 BB, 1 K
Parker had his 6th HR and 16th double. Burg and Flores also had a couple XBH each. Brown had just his second multi-hit line in his last ten games.
Westcott, who had yielded just 1 ER in his previous five starts combined, had his worst start of the season. His ERA jumped just above 3.00 as he suffered his first loss of the year. Lofgren retired ten of his eleven batters in long relief.
A-: Augusta lost to Savannah 2-0
Augusta: LF Raynor Campbell: 2 for 3, BB
Augusta: SP Mike Kickham: 5.0 IP, 3 H, 0 R, 0 ER, 2 BB, 6 K--1 E
Campbell had two of the GreenJackets' five hits (all singles) and their only walk. While last year's fourteenth round selection has not hit for much average, he has at least shown some secondary average. His hitting line is .224/.332/.417 through 156 AB.
Kickham had one of his better starts of the year. For the third time in his last eight starts, he did not allow an earned run. Despite having just nine starts this year (since making his season debut on May 13), he leads all GreenJackets starting pitchers with 51 K.
ssA: Salem-Keizer defeated Vancouver 8-1
Salem-Keizer: 2B Kaohi Downing: 4 for 5, 2B
Salem-Keizer: C Joe Staley: 3 for 4, 2 HR, SO
Salem-Keizer: LF Leo Ochoa: 1 for 4, HR, SO
Salem-Keizer: SP Lorenzo Mendoza: 6.0 IP, 3 H, 1 R, 1 ER, 0 BB, 9 K
Staley, who had 5 HRs in the AZL last summer, had his first two NWL HRs. Downing's four hits give him a .400 AVG through his first 25 pro AB. Ochoa homered for the second straight day, giving him a big fly in each of his first two NWL games.
Mendoza had perhaps the best start so far this year for a Volcanoes' starting pitcher. He has allowed just 1 ER in each of his first two NWL starts.
R: Giants defeated Reds 6-5
Scottsdale: 1B Ben Thomas: 2 for 4, HR
Scottsdale: C Eric Sim: 2 for 3, BB
Scottsdale: SP Joan Gregorio: 5.0 IP, 4 H, 2 R, 2 ER, 0 BB, 1 K--1 HB
Thomas, the Giants' 34th rounder this year, homered in his second straight game. Sim, who hit just .108 (in 37 AB) in the AZL last year, reached base three times.
Gregorio's second start in the U.S. went well. Although he had just 1 K, he did have a 9/1 GO/FO line.
DSL: The Gigantes had their usual Sunday off-day
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Go Giants!
Hello from Houston. Can’t wait for the game on August 20th!
kroon had the final batter down 1-2
then musta hung something…as breaking balls dont work the same in the desert as they do elsewhere…gave up a two run dinger
the hr kicked him in the ass…he walked the next batter…they brought in otero….he immediately gave up a double….game over
i think the cal boys are having probs with motivation after that amazing first half…moves better start happening
richmond has the best team era in the eastern…only team with a sub 3 era
Ford?
Did Ford get hurt again? I see from the boxscore that they took him out after only 1 AB.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
i didnt listen to the post game
my bad…but looks like he musta tweaked something…or maybe it was the heat
100 degrees and dry…can eff with the muscles
Ford
The only thing he does well is pinch-run.
by flyonthewall on Jun 27, 2011 1:06 AM PDT up reply actions
i think the cal boys are having probs with motivation after that amazing first half…moves better start happening
Is this really a thing?
Giants Baseball: Why Not?
"Things I never thought I'd see #47783: Schwarzenegger applauding Ryan Rohlinger" -- Your mother, Nov. 3, 2010.
I would hope that minor leaguers would get their motivation from trying to improve as players and taking the next step, not from team standings.
Adopted Giant - Carlos Willoughby, 2011 Sally League All Star
I just sometimes feel that too much emphasis is put on the mental aspect of the game. They’re like 50-20 or something. I’m not worried.
Giants Baseball: Why Not?
"Things I never thought I'd see #47783: Schwarzenegger applauding Ryan Rohlinger" -- Your mother, Nov. 3, 2010.
wRC+ down below 120 now
Still interesting, but I like him a lot more around 150.
Not that I’m any kind of expert of this, but I find wRC+ problematic when it comes to minor leaguers.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
I guess it’s that I’m not convinced about the efficacy of park factors or even league average in environments that are so fluid. Not just from year to year but even within a single season you have a degree turnover that makes everything somewhat SSS. And then muddling things even further you have the wide disparity of levels of skill and experience of the players themselves. Then finally there’s the extremely unbalanced schedules that many leagues with two separate divisions have (as take for instance the Sally or the EL, the teams in the southern pod rarely play the teams in the northern pod at all, and it can frequently be that one of those pods has a lot of big time talent, and the other has practically none). It all adds up to some pretty muddied waters I think.
In general, stats that “normalize” numbers work much better in the context of the major leagues where important elements (like, hey, Skillz, and also field condition, mound construction etc) are much more consistent across the entire pool of players, and where the player turnover from year to year is minimimal compared to the minors where it’s nearly a blank slate every April.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
Or I should say, it feels to me that stats that normalize numbers work better…
I have a pretty limited understanding of the theory and practice of statistical analysis. But intuitvely speaking, those are my stumbling blocks.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
All of that makes perfect sense to me, but I’m not an expert at all.
Regardless, I’m still not worried about Gary Brown. His current “slump” (if that’s even what it is) might be a good thing. It might cause the org to leave him in San Jose longer, instead of promoting him based on stats that were unsustainable. He obviously has some things to work on that weren’t evident at first.
Giants Baseball: Why Not?
"Things I never thought I'd see #47783: Schwarzenegger applauding Ryan Rohlinger" -- Your mother, Nov. 3, 2010.
they dominated the cal league
harder to motivate yourself against subpar competition….all im saying
the 05 squad had the same probs
Ben Thomas
You know things are going well at the plate when you put up a 2 for 4 night and your BA actually drops. His SLG is up to 1.133 now – totally sustainable.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
Demondre!
I didn’t expect to see him on the mound so quickly, but recently signed RHP Demondre Arnold had a successful pro debut in the desert tonight. The 19-year old from Georgia pitched the 8th inning and got his first K – facing the minimum 3 batters despite giving up 1 BB.
Kentrell Hill went 1 for 5 with a single for the 2nd straight night.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
SSS
But things are looking a hell of a lot better than they were last year. Same goes for Kieschnick.
Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)
Did someone at Richmond fix him? If so, can that person come talk to the big club?
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jun 27, 2011 9:23 AM PDT up reply actions
Kinda sorta
If in September he still has .912 OPS in the EL, he definitely is a prospect. That’s not especially likely, but there’s certainly a lot more hope for him than there was last year. Maybe he just had some trouble adjusting to wood bats?
My boy decided to play baseball, as you can see he’s a big guy with lots of power.
My boy Joe Staley plays lineman on Sundays.
"I will never apologize for watching Bonds dominate" – Duane Kuiper
by Soulbrother16 on Jun 27, 2011 1:09 AM PDT up reply actions
What’s going to happen to Downing? 25 is kind of old?
by Hyoton on Jun 27, 2011 4:26 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
Switched from mound to the IF after pitching the last 2 years...
….seems like late in the game to make the switch, but he was drafted as 23 y.o. anyway if I remember correctly. I wonder if the organization had pushed for it from the beginning or if it was his decision? Either way early returns are good – and expectations aren’t really that high for 50th rounders.
"Don't trust anyone under the age of 30" - Brian Sabean
by Smotheredinhugs on Jun 27, 2011 5:49 AM PDT up reply actions
...also
…it looks like he had 20 PA’s last year – all coming as a pitcher in the NWL.
"Don't trust anyone under the age of 30" - Brian Sabean
by Smotheredinhugs on Jun 27, 2011 5:53 AM PDT up reply actions
If I recall the story right, he wasn’t a full time pitcher in college, and the scout who suggested him (whose son played with Downing at college) actually was first impressed by throws he saw him make from the OF, and suggested he be picked as a late round flyer on the belief that that arm strength made him a candidate for a relief pitcher.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
Downing was hitting the ball very well last night, no cheapies. I’m told his arm seems to make him more of a candidate for third base than second so maybe we’ll see a move that direction soon since we don’t have a real third baseman right now.
Staley crushed those 2 bombs, no cheapies there either. Cutspec hit one to the deepest part of the park that if he had not got under it so much would have been seriously impressive. As it was it was just a long, high out.
Payne and Galindo are ridiculously fast. Izturis stole third and the pitch got past the catcher and he went home on the wild pitch. Pitcher was standing there with a dumb look on his face and broke home very late and almost got him but he slid under the tag.
Base ump blew ass. Horrible.
Adopted father of Brian Bocock, Brad Boyer, Sharlon Schoop, Shane Jordan, Jeremiah Luster,Trey Webb,David Quinowski, Jeff Arnold, and Brandon Allen.
"GM Jack Zduriencik is one of the sharper tools in the shed. Elsewhere in that shed, Brian Sabean continues to pound screws into bricks with a garden rake."
Not to harp on this...
…but I will.
His name is Alex Burg, not Andrew Burg.
Giants Baseball: Why Not?
"Things I never thought I'd see #47783: Schwarzenegger applauding Ryan Rohlinger" -- Your mother, Nov. 3, 2010.
I don’t know who that is. Sorry!
Giants Baseball: Why Not?
"Things I never thought I'd see #47783: Schwarzenegger applauding Ryan Rohlinger" -- Your mother, Nov. 3, 2010.
whippersnapper! (it’s from Clockwork Orange. You should see what Malcolm looks like today!)
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
any opinions on Pill playing 2B in mlb?
does the he have the range, (enough)athleticism, etc?
Oh he’s even better at playing poorly than Burriss! Does that make him more of a prospect?
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
Not being Burriss almost guarantees you are more of a prospect by default
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jun 27, 2011 9:58 AM PDT up reply actions
ok, thats what i thought
quite a few nutters on extrabaggs want Pill to be called up and play 2B though…
by repeat_in_2011 on Jun 27, 2011 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions
Day off for Panik
Anyone know why? Regular day of rest, injury, or promotion?
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jun 27, 2011 9:26 AM PDT reply actions
I KNOW!!
I have moved on from Gary Brown, because Brown is boring lately. Panik is now the #2 guy, and #1 position player, that I look for in minor lines (Surkkkkkamp is #1).
Heath Hembree is close, though. I’m fairly certain that he can have a 9 K/9 in the big leagues right now. Of course, that may come with a 9 BB/9, but still…
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jun 27, 2011 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions
Thomas Neal needs to regain the #1 spot, BTW. Come on TDaddy!
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jun 27, 2011 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions
You know, I actually had to think for a minute about who I care about watching in every day’s lines. I guess Peguero’s my number 1, and Brown’s #2, with Dominguez and Duvall are becoming my dark horses #3a and #3b. But no Belt, no Chuckie’s, no RafRod. Joseph’s terrible; Culby’s terrible; Noonan-s terrible. Ugh. It’s a wasteland. I’m dying for Belt to come back and hit like Belt again.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
I definitely agree on Belt, but I’m hoping that after a rehab assignment that Belt’s work is with the big club!
Culberson appeared to have turned a corner last year, but ugh. I have just about given up on him and Noonan.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jun 27, 2011 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions
I’m hoping that, too, but I don’t think they’re going to be in a rush to get Belt back up. For one, it will be hard to avoid bringing him into a situation where he’s expected to be the “savior” which is probably the worst possible environment for a player with as little pro experience as Belt’s had, who’s simultaneously dealing with rehabbing a serious injury for the first time in his pro career.
And then second there’s the number crunch issue. Burriss and Crawford are the only two position players (other than Pablo, who obviously doesn’t figure in to the equation) who can be sent down without being waived. One of them goes when, and if Fontenot comes back, and the other almost has to be kept just for a bare minimum amount of depth at MI. That means activating Belt comes at the expense of someone being waived or traded and the candidates are: Burrell, Schierholtz, Rowand. There’s Hall of course, but then you’re going back to having no depth at MI. And naturally, a DL stint for someone else can delay the issue, but it can’t put it off forever. If Belt comes, Burrell’s likely to start feeling tight in the collar.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
I think Burrell will be released when Belt finally comes back to SF. Just a guess.
What can (Gary) Brown do for you?
It’s not a bad guess; I was leaning that way myself. Although, FWIW, Burrell’s currently 2nd on the team in OBP and 3rd in SLG.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
Crawford is probably staying, if for no other reason than that he is the only real SS on the team. With Crawford, Hall, and Fontenot, that’s all the depth that is needed. Hall can play 2B, 3B, SS if necessary. Fontenot can do so as well, although he is better at 2B than at 3B.
If at least those three are healthy, then I say dump Tejada. As long as Belt kicks ass at AAA during his rehab assignment, he should be given another shot.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jun 27, 2011 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions
That is only one backup IF which is a short bench to me (I personally would be in favor of an 11 man pitching staff personally, because with a team this offensively woebegone, you need to be able to take advantage of every high leverage platoon split and PH opportunity you can find). Not that I’d disagree with dumping Tejada, but recognize the potential for ending up having Conor Gillaspie or more of the endless Emmanuel Burriss experiment the next time anybody pulls a hammy (and at this point, with TWO failed attempts at rehabbing he groin, how confident are we that this will be the last of Fontenot’s DL stints this year?).
And there’s another issue. Belt was actually in a bit of a slump his last few weeks in AAA. And altogether his AAA numbers have shown two serious decline issues from his A+/AA numbers: his SLG has been nearly .100 points lower in AAA than in AA (despite moving from an extreme pitching friendly environment to an extreme hitting friendly environment) and his K rates spiked from 17% in AA to 24%.
While I share the enthusiasm for getting him up to SF as the only likely possibilty to help our moribund offense; the skeptic in me thinks he could probably use the rest of the year in AAA for the sake of his development.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
The problem with platoons and pinch hitters . . .
. . . is that they don’t usually buy you much, if they do not in fact actually hurt.
Platoons means that at least one half of the pair (and often both) is not going to get enough plate appearances to play his best, so you’ll almost always be better off with just using the overall better of the two.
Pinch hitters have (presumably) a platoon advantage, but it is pretty well cancelled, and arguably exceeded, by the off-the-bench-cold disadvantage. If you happen to have a pinch hitter who is overall a significantly better hitter—say an everyday player supposedly getting a rest day—pinch hitting may make some sense, but most moves are knee-jerk by handedness.
My feeling is that having greater flexibility in the bullpen is more important. If you have players with some positional flexibility, you can get by quite well with a 13-man squad (10 more or less regular and 3 for injuries or 16-inning games), and even 12 can work well.
(Of course, all that is predicated on having a manager who understands these things and knows how to best use his player talent.)
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
Really when you have 12 position players (and specifically these 12 position players) how much of a difference is the manager’s decisions making? I’d certainly play Burrell over Schierholtz over Rowand, but other than that are any decisions with this group really costing you, say 2 wins over the course of the season? Hall vs. Burriss? Crawford vs. Tejada? Stewart vs. Whiteside? Those all carry the strench of no win decisions to me.
As for the platoon issue, I know you believe the data says that, but there are certainly other pretty smart people who consistently have said that platoon advantages are terribly underrated and insist the data runs the other direction. One of them who certainly proved its efficacy was Earl Weaver. Another staunch defender is Keith Law. I think the matter probably has more gray area than you’re willing to concede it.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
One consideration:
You can’t see what’s invisible. I once worked for a fellow who was making a lot of money; I showed him ways he could make a deal more, but he was uninterested. His line, often repeated in public, was “I’m a genius!” because he was making money (never mind how, though it was technically legal). What more he could have made was invisible to him.
Likewise, if you run platoons and are generally successful, like Weaver, the runs you might have scored doing else are invisible. Tango and I have had our differences, but in the main he is right on, and you can read for yourself what The Book says about platoons.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
Not that it will make much of a difference
But looks like Augusta will play without a hitting coach for the rest of the year. Wonder what the story is there.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
Have there been any recent reports on how Mike Kickham is looking stuff-wise? It seems like he’s been in the rotation awhile now without drawing much discussion of any kind.
He’s had good peripherals. At 22 he’s not young for the league and I’d love to see him join the Cal for the second half, but I don’t know that it’s going to happen. That puts his season in the solid but not spectacular category for me.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!

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