minor lines, 6/16/11
by steve S on Jun 16, 2011 10:52 PM PDT
in They Might Be Giants
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PrintThursday highlights from the Giants' farm: Roger Kieschnick and Justin Christian both homered and singled. Also notable, Joel Weeks reached base in all four plate appearances.
AAA: Fresno defeated Tacoma 8-4
Fresno: CF Darren Ford: 0 for 3, SO
Fresno: 3B Conor Gillaspie: 2 for 3, 2B, BB, E
Fresno: LF Thomas Neal: 2 for 4, SO, SB
Fresno: C Hector Sanchez: 2 for 4, 2B
Fresno: SP Barry Zito: 6.0 IP, 5 H, 4 R, 4 ER, 2 BB, 6 K--1 HR
Fresno: RP Danny Otero: 0.2 IP, 1 K
Gillaspie, Neal, and Sanchez each had two hits, including Gillaspie's 3rd triple and Sanchez's 2nd PCL double. Along with Ford, who was playing his first rehab game, they are perhaps the top hitting prospects for the Grizzlies.
Making his third rehab start, Zito came up a bit shy of the quality start while throwing 95 pitches (58 strikes). Otero got the save in his PCL debut.
AA: Richmond defeated Binghamton 11-9
(after leading 9-3 after four innings)
Richmond: LF Justin Christian: 2 for 4, HR, BB
Richmond: RF Roger Kieschnick: 2 for 4, HR, SF, SO
Binghamton: SS Jordanny Valdespin: 3 for 6, 2 HR, SB, E
Richmond: SP Justin Fitzgerald: 5.0 IP, 7 H, 4 R, 4 ER, 3 BB, 5 K--1 HR, 1 WP
Richmond: RP Edwin Quirarte: 1.0 IP, 5 H, 4 R, 4 ER--1 HR
Richmond: RP Heath Hembree: 0.1 IP, 1 BB, 1 K
Christian and Kieschnick each delivered a three-run, two-out HR--Christian with his 4th HR in the 2nd inning and Kieschnick with his 6th HR in the 4th inning. Valdespin, one of the Mets' top thirty prospects, had his 6th and 7th HRs of the year, as well as his 16th SB and 15th error.
With his second straight below average start, Fitzgerald saw his ERA rise to 3.75. Quirarte yielded 4 ER to see his ERA climb above 5.00. Making his upper minors debut, Hembree walked his first batter but struck out the second batter to get the save.
A+: San Jose defeated Modesto 6-3
(after trailing 2-1 through six innings)
San Jose: CF Gary Brown: 1 for 4, 3B
San Jose: C Tommy Joseph: 2 for 4
San Jose: SP David Mixon: 5.2 IP, 8 H, 2 R, 2 ER, 0 BB, 1 K--1 HR
San Jose: RP Michael Main: 1.0 IP, 3 BB, 3 K--1 WP
Joseph, who had his hitting streak snapped in his previous game, had a multiple-hit performance for the sixth time in his last ten games. His AVG is now .249. He was the only Giant to reach base twice. Brown had his 4th triple.
For the first time in five starts this year, Mixon came up shy of a quality start. Making his first appearance in nearly two months, Main faced six batters, striking out half but walking the other half.
A-: Augusta defeated Asheville 6-5
Augusta: CF Chris Lofton: 2 for 3, 2B, BB, SB
Augusta: LF Rafael Rodriguez: 2 for 4, 2B, SO GiDP
Augusta: C Joel Weeks: 2 for 2, 2 BB, E, PB
Augusta: SP Shawn Sanford: 5.0 IP, 5 H, 4 R, 4, ER, 5 BB, 5 K--2 WP
Augusta: RP Bretty Bochy: 1.0 IP, 3 K
Augusta: RP Stephen Harrold: 1.0 IP, 2 K
Weeks reached base in all four plate appearances. Lofton, who has batted ninth nearly all season but batted second in the lineup tonight, reached base three times. Raf-Rod was the third GreenJacket with two hits.
Sanford, who had issued just 4 BB over his previous seven starts combined, had a season-high 5 BB. The 4 ER was the most allowed in his last nine starts, bumping his ERA up to nearly 3.00. Bochy and Harrold combined for 5 K in 2.0 perfect IP.
DSL: Giants hosting Marlins postponed
(as every DSL game today was postponed)
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Don't we have to get rid of him now?
There is no way he should be in the rotation and the Bullpen is full of guys who are far more effective and have much better stuff and control. There is no place for him on the 25 man roster.
Relief! I Thank you for your Lefferts.
Decision time is looming. I think he only has about 5 more days that he can be on rehab assignment, and at that point, somebody gets traded or released.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
Actually, check my math — looks like 10 days left before somebody has to move.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
I don't see how this team can not become worse Barry Zito on the 25 man roster.
I wish sanchez had like 4 years of control left…then we could get a pretty nice bat for him and put Zito back in the back of the rotation and move Voglesong into Sanchez’ spot.
Relief! I Thank you for your Lefferts.
by Cody_ransom on Jun 17, 2011 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions
But I love him.
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by Cody_ransom on Jun 17, 2011 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions
I would think he could bring a monster bat though,
especially if you threw in a decent prospect like ummm…yeah, nobody of value that I would feel comfortable packaging with MadBum…Adrianza maybe? Is he covetable?
Relief! I Thank you for your Lefferts.
by Cody_ransom on Jun 17, 2011 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions
I wouldn't
from what I know of him…but I’m not the most informed guy on prospects. Though, I’ve always prefered Crawford to Eihre.
Relief! I Thank you for your Lefferts.
by Cody_ransom on Jun 17, 2011 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions
I guess if Hector goes all Buster Posey on the PCL,
he could become a nice trade chip. But if that were to happen, the Giants would probably be better off swapping him into the 25 man roster for Stewart until the offseason.
Relief! I Thank you for your Lefferts.
by Cody_ransom on Jun 17, 2011 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions
every other team probably has an Ehire equivalent in their system.
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by nostocksjustbonds on Jun 17, 2011 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions
You’d have to believe that Bumgarner is among the top maybe 10 highest trade value players in baseball — which is an awfully good reason not to trade him. It would be very difficult to get the value back on a deal like that. Smacks of Lincecum for Rios all over again.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
+1
His upside and team-friendly salaries over the next 5 years make him untouchable in my book. Let’s all remember that the possibility of Timmy and Cain hitting the FA market 2.5 years from now is not miniscule. MadBum is a must-keep.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
So we DFA Zito then?
I do not want him in the rotation and I do not want to make him an option for Bochy out of the pen.
Relief! I Thank you for your Lefferts.
by Cody_ransom on Jun 17, 2011 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions
There’s as much a chance of the Giants dumping Zito as there is that you’ll be put on the SF roster. Anybody thinking that the Giants are going to eat the remaining $56M on Zito’s contract is just too out of touch with reality for their own good. Why don’t we also believe that the Giants trade Zito, Rowand, and Runzler for Jose Reyes or Albert Pujols while we’re at it?
Zito will be with the Giants for years to come. Get used to it. They’ll stick him in the pen and play games with various “injuries” so that he doesn’t become too much of a burden.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
Give me one good reason to do that which doesn't include
commentary about Brian Sabean’s pride.
Relief! I Thank you for your Lefferts.
by Cody_ransom on Jun 17, 2011 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions
It’s not Sabean’s decision. There’s no way that Neukom would sign off on it. He’s too smart of a businessman to do that.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
In what way is it a smart business move to keep a part of your operation
which makes your product or service inferior and less efficient?
Relief! I Thank you for your Lefferts.
by Cody_ransom on Jun 17, 2011 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions
It would be nice to have a guy like Zito around in case
Ryan Voglesong remembers he’s Ryan Voglesong or someone gets hurt, but I don’t want him sitting in the bullpen where he can lessen the probability of a win by taking more Sergio Romo or even Jeremy Affeldt innings.
Relief! I Thank you for your Lefferts.
by Cody_ransom on Jun 17, 2011 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions
Neukom believes that Zito will be worth something to someone at some point in the next 3 years.
Have you ever heard of the term buy low, sell high? In business, you don’t dump an asset that isn’t costing you any more money to hold onto. It’s not like the Giants have to pay any extra money or taxes to keep Zito on the roster. All of the $56M is guaranteed. Keeping Zito as the long reliever in the pen (with numerous trips to the DL) isn’t going to make much fo a difference between the Giants W/L record this year. Do you think the Giants are going to keep Mota and dump Zito?
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
Have you ever heard of the term buy low, sell high? In business, you don’t dump an asset that isn’t costing you any more money to hold onto. It’s not like the Giants have to pay any extra money or taxes to keep Zito on the roster. All of the $56M is guaranteed.
Have you ever heard of the term “Sunk costs?”
It’s what you call money you have already invested in an asset. It’s good business to make the best decission about performance regardless of costs already incurred. So basically in this case, you’re better off getting rid of what makes you worse if you have to pay the same costs for it no matter what.
I do not trust Bruce Bochy with Barry Zito in the bullpen. This is a guy who has pitched Sergio Romo, as much as Dan Runzler, (previous to Romo’s last outing that was the case).
Relief! I Thank you for your Lefferts.
by Cody_ransom on Jun 17, 2011 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions
What is the definition of sunk cost?
Sunk cost is a term that I’ve seen bandied about on this, and other baseball, blogs with abandon. Most of the time I’ve seen it the poster is mistaking waht the term actually means. Here is the definition of a sunk cost in terms of business (emphasis added):
In economics and business decision-making, sunk costs are retrospective (past) costs that have already been incurred and cannot be recovered.
Zito’s contract is not a sunk cost because the odds of the Giants being able to recover some value for him in the future are very high. They have 3 years to get something out of him. In general, there is no baseball player that can truly to be said to be a sunk cost – unless they are so injured that they can never play ball at the major league level again. Guys like Vernon Wells and Alex Rios were being said to be sunk costs as little as 7 months ago.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
That’s quite right. The potential return on his investment isn’t exhausted. In fact, if we pay to get rid of him, we’re actually converting investment that still has potential returns into Sunk Costs. A further issue is the extra $11 million for 2014 which currently aren’t guaranteed but almost surely would have to become guaranteed in order to trade him (though not to waive him I don’t believe).
What’s more, if we find ourselves in the position in say 2013, of having to go out on the market to buy an average starting pitcher to take the “Zito position” we will have been forced to add further expense to that roster spot without necessarily gaining any production.
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MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
by Roger on Jun 17, 2011 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
This is indeed where a good business man makes his money.
If something is a Sunk cost after it’s potential value is exhausted, then there is no decision to make. You might incur many, many more costs because you exhausted the potential ROI of a particular asset. Smart managers can determine at what point to sink a detremental asset. If there’s no value left, then their is no strategic decision left to make.
But good managers can save themseleves lot of potentially incurred losses by identifying under performance and “sinking” the cost. This is why replacement level is a useful stat.
In this case we don’t have any pitchers that Zito could likely outperform in their roles, and putting him in Bochy’s bullpen is a huge variable that runs wildly out of control. Most managers would not use their worst RP as much as their best, but Bochy has, and that is a track record I will not trust.
Relief! I Thank you for your Lefferts.
by Cody_ransom on Jun 17, 2011 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions
It’s also where a good business man loses his money if things don’t turn out the way he hoped. In the end luck will have a lot more to do with that than smarts.
And I have to say, Bochy gets no end of flack for his bullpen usage (much of which drives me crazy, too), and yet the Giants have thus far, vastly out performed their expected win total and they’ve done so mostly because of the performance of the bullpen (the most solidly well above average unit on the team).
Beyond that he’s got over a decade’s worth of really really high performing bullpen’s under his management. it really seems to me that there’s room for a benefit of the doubt at play here.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
by Roger on Jun 17, 2011 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
You know...
Part of me says, it’s probably going to work out fine. I do recognize that he has always had great pens. And his management of the bullpen truly shined in contrast to what Alou used to do. But the analytical side of me sees this Runzler/Romo thing and just flips out because there is absolutely no excuse for it.
Relief! I Thank you for your Lefferts.
by Cody_ransom on Jun 17, 2011 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions
Although, wasn’t Runzler mostly being used in “save the bullpen” situations — multiple inning outings when the team was already down by a couple runs? My anecdotal memory feels like that’s the case.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
I have no dog in this hunt, but . . .
. . . I will mention that the Giants have not “vastly outperformed” anything. Based on their actual batting and pitching stat lines to date, they are perhaps three wins over projection, which is more or less mid-pack for luck; and based on expectations from individual-player career stat lines, they are only one win over, which is well within the sheer statistical-noise range.
Bochy chronically mismanages his pitching staffs (and his lineups). The Giants win what they win despite, not because of, his management. Details and specifics would take a small book to catalogue.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
Well, they’re 5 games above their Pythagorean record about 40% of the way through the season. I feel comfortable with calling that vast.
As for the other, you disprove the old saying that there’s no arguing with success. We can all take issue with him as much as we’d like, but in the end we will never have any means of proving that another approach with this group would have yielded greater results. In my mind that ought to imbue our critiques with a greater sense of humility, but the opposite tends to be true more often.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
In my mind that ought to imbue our critiques with a greater sense of humility
Despite my total agreement with this statement, it made me laugh out loud in the context of MCC.
Giants Baseball: Why Not?
"Things I never thought I'd see #47783: Schwarzenegger applauding Ryan Rohlinger" -- Your mother, Nov. 3, 2010.
Awesome! A two-fer, that’s the best kind of response.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
But the point is . . .
. . . that their “Pythagorean” record based on actual runs scored/allowed is misleading, because those runs are themselves products of various kinds of luck. Let’s elaborate:
Luck comes at three levels:
At the lowest, it is individual men having seasons better or worse than their inherent capabilties. These differences often largely cancel out at the cumulative team level over a full season, but not always and rarely completely, and usually not mid-season. The net result of the luck here is a team batting or pitching stat line somewhat different from what the men’s histories suggest.
The middle level of luck is runs scored or allowed as compared to what a given team stat line ordinarily produces. That is, even if every man (and thus the team as a whole) is right on career projections, the runs scored or allowed can differ from calculated. Here, too, there is often some cancellation, but with the same caveats as above.
Finally, there is the luck of actual wins earned by actual runs scored and runs allowed.
The Giants are very nearly on what one would project from player career lines, a bit off from what one would project from actual team stat lines, and a moderate ways off what one would project from actual runs scored/allowed, which last alone is the 5 wins you refer to.
Most analysts are more comfortable with projections below the raw “Pythagorean” level.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
It’s not really that simple though. During the time we’ve had the pleasure of his acquaintance we’ve already seen Zito go from a 83/84 MPH throwing 86 ERA+ pitcher in 2008 to an 86/87 MPH throwing 106 ERA+ pitcher in 2009. The fact that he looks a lot more like the former in 2011 doesn’t not necessarily ensure that he won’t look like the latter in 2012 or 2013.
Nor does Ryan Vogelsong’s performance this year mean that we can count on him to keep putting up above average performances for the next two or three years. With Sanchez and Cain’s impending FA, the uncertainty TINSTAAPy development paths of Wheeler or Surkamp or Verdugo — it’s not at all hard to imagine that come 2013 a near league average Zito could be a real asset.
The problem is of course that he doesn’t seem to be much of an asset right now, so in the end some kind of wagering on unknown future events has to take place.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
by Roger on Jun 17, 2011 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
There's an interesting question
What’s Vogelsong’s contract status? Is he not even eligible for arb yet?
Yeah, he is. Started this year with 4.027 years of service time, according to Cots. So we could conceivably take him to arb this year and keep him one more season before he became FA eligible, though I doubt either side would want to see that happen. If he continues down this path for the rest of the year I wouldn’t be surprised to see a 2 year extension, depending in part on what happens with the Zito situation.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
The problem with all this...
…is that it assumes Zito’s costs are limited to his salary commitment. The reason I think it is worth discussing is that having Zito on the roster potentially does two things:
1. It may force the team to lose a valuable player to make room for Zito on the 25/40 man.
2. It is hard to believe that having Zito on the roster adds to the quality of the team as it is composed. If anything, carrying a 6th starter or using him in the ’pen will make the team worse, which may be the difference between making the playoffs and not. When you factor in the added revenue of another playoff run, it is not clear that cutting Zito will cost all of the $50ish MM is might.
what about rowand
Do you think they will cut the cord after this season and just eat that last 12 million?
I think that Rowand will be gone as soon as the money the Giants would have to eat gets below $8M. That will either be around June of 2012, or could be sooner through a trade where the Giants don’t have to pony up more than about $8M to get another team to take him.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
He actually has some value as a 5th OF.
Although we have others that could do as well or better in that role.
Zito will inevitably damage the team if he is available for use.
Relief! I Thank you for your Lefferts.
by Cody_ransom on Jun 17, 2011 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions
I don’t think a 5th OF has any value, at least in trade. That’s a spot normally reserved for some kind of replacement-level, AAAA, good defensive outfielder. Nobody pays anything for that. Now, with respect to the Giants and Rowand, the money is spent, so using him in that role would be fine. But as long as he’s on the team he’ll play too much. Because Bork. So they need to dump him.
I meant value to the team.
He’s not worth trading for, IMO because most teams will have someone of his ability already, but he’s not gonna kill you in the OF late in a game.
But as long as he’s on the team he’ll play too much. Because Bork.
Exactly why I don’t want Zito in the pen.
I fear Bochy might use Zito in high leverages situations and cause us to lose a game or two unnecessarily.
Relief! I Thank you for your Lefferts.
by Cody_ransom on Jun 17, 2011 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions
Per Fangraphs, Zito has a rest-of-season FIP of 4.13. Sure, that’s not gospel, but even a 4.50 ROS FIP is worth something. I think that the Giants would have to eat about half or a little more of Zito’s salary to get rid of him.
What return would they get? Hard to say, but Zito has been a 2.2 and 2.1 fWAR pitcher the last two years, and has a long history of outperforming his FIP. It sucks that Zito makes so much money, but he’s not worthless.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jun 17, 2011 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions
One other aspect of the Zito situation is the full no-trade clause of his contract; negotiated by Scott Boras who is definitely an agent who knows what to do with a full no-trade clause. The purpose, of course, being to be able to demand a concession, and in Zito’s case it’s pretty clear what that concession would need to be from Boras’ viewpoint — a guarantee of the final (2014) season in the contract.
And given that Boras and Zito would have absolutely no motivation to concede that issue (indeed, Zito might have the opposition motivation given the long rumors of his disdain for moving to the East Coast), that’s going to be a real complication.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
Not necessarily. Zito will also be faced with being the last man in the bullpen slash cheerleader, and it’s entirely possible he doesn’t want that. He has enough money to tell Boras “I want to pitch.”
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jun 17, 2011 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions
2 War would rank him 6th among all the starters Zito included. There’s no way he outpitches anyone in the rotation through the rest of the year.
And like I said he’s going to be a gas can in the bullpen. He walks way to many batters without the K’s to be an effective RP. He’s an awful fit in the bullpen.
Relief! I Thank you for your Lefferts.
by Cody_ransom on Jun 17, 2011 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions
I agree that he’s unlikley to outpitch any of the other 5 in the rotation this year (barring injury, knock on wood), but again if you’re going to pay to cut him loose you have to further consider the question of whether we’re likely to have 5 better pitchers next year and two years from now. And that question I think is much murkier. Unfortunately, they don’t have a lot of time at their disposal to make a decision, barring somebody in the bullpen needing a little DL vacation.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
You don't have to pay to cut him loose...
Unless you are talking about the potential value he might give over the guy that would replace him. I’m willing to reduce the negative value he would bring to the team over the next three years at the risk of his potentially possitive contributions. I believe his negative value above “Giants” replacement outweighs, the possitive.
Relief! I Thank you for your Lefferts.
by Cody_ransom on Jun 17, 2011 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions
but again if you’re going to pay to cut him loose you have to further consider the question of whether we’re likely to have 5 better pitchers next year and two years from now. And that question I think is much murkier. Unfortunately, they don’t have a lot of time at their disposal to make a decision, barring somebody in the bullpen needing a little DL vacation.
Next year I think we are highly likely to have 5 better starters. In 2013 It’s possible Sanchez gets a stupid offer from a stupid GM. I think it’s very likely that Sabean will get Cain back and Lincecum and Bumgarner would still be under contract. I would also be surprised if Voglesong isn’t extended after this season.
There is a lot of uncertainty there. I can see that there is value to keeping him around in case you need him in 2013, but IMO the damage he could do between now and then outweighs the security that he might add for 2013.
Relief! I Thank you for your Lefferts.
by Cody_ransom on Jun 17, 2011 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions
I don’t disagree. But I do think it’s a difficult decision.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
We can agree on that.
Relief! I Thank you for your Lefferts.
by Cody_ransom on Jun 17, 2011 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions
These are true and likely will be the future.
There is a lot of uncertainty there. I can see that there is value to keeping him around in case you need him in 2013, but IMO the damage he could do between now and then outweighs the security that he might add for 2013.
Strategically...
the best decision is to let him clear waivers and get used to Fresno. That’s the perfect spot in this organization for him, but that will never happen. And I agree the feasability of a trade is very low unless we eat all of his contract and somehow he agrees to not take the 2014 option, which he might do if he realizes he needs to start looking for a place in Fresno.
Relief! I Thank you for your Lefferts.
by Cody_ransom on Jun 17, 2011 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions
he wont clear waivers
he will get picked up, because on a league min salary…he is a serviceable 5th starter
But he has to clear waivers to be on a league minimum salary. If someone claims him on waivers they claim his salary, too.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
This is what I thought.
If he cleared waivers, he could accept his destiny in Fresno, or go with a team that claims him after he clears waivers. AMIRITE?
Relief! I Thank you for your Lefferts.
That’s what happened to Alex Rios.
The reason that idea doens’t work is that if Zito were to clear waivers he would instantly become a FA and leave the Giants to pitch for any team that wants him. The Giants would still owe him his salary and the other team would only have to pay him the league minimum.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
He's an awful starter and an
even worse option out of the pen. What can they possibly do with him other than long relief?
Is awful compared to what the Giants have on hand...
To some teams he would have value if it weren’t for his ridiculous contract.
Relief! I Thank you for your Lefferts.
by Cody_ransom on Jun 17, 2011 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions
Right, but the contract is there and it DOES
negate his trade value.
6 man rotation
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jun 17, 2011 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Bad idea.
You want fewer starts by the other GOOD pitchers so Zito can blow 14 games between now and October?
My guess is this Giants team will
not open up a 5+ game lead at any time this year. The Rockies have not had their yearly “run” yet.
Given those two circumstances, I personally would not recommend a 6-man rotation.
The Diamondbacks are the only team in the division with a positive run differential and it’s a fairly substantial one. They “should” have a sizeable lead on us right now.
I wouldn’t just assume that our run of 1-run victories and walk-offs is going to continue. Unless we figure out a way to score some runs, the size of our lead isn’t necessarily going to be our biggest concern.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
I was thinking about this...
Shouldn’t one run of differential have a higher weighted value to the Giants than the DBacks? The Giants score fewer runs but allow fewer runs, therefore, 1 run is a greater percentage of total runs scored in Giants games than it would be in DBacks games. I get that it’s bad to not score a lot of runs and that is reflected in differential and pythag, but when you only allow say, 697 runs in a season each run represents a lot more win contribution than it would for a team scoring 900 runs.
Relief! I Thank you for your Lefferts.
Continuing...
Because how many runs a rival team scores in an season has little to do with where you finish in relationship to them. It’s how many runs they score against you, and if you prevent runs as well as anyone, your runs count for a lot more.
Relief! I Thank you for your Lefferts.
But it’s still better to actually score more runs than you give up, which the Giants haven’t been doing for most of this season (although I believe their Runs Scored finally caught up to their Runs Surrendered during the Arizona series and now we’re sitting dead even).
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
Yes.
as a general rule, but pythag obviously has it’s limits and should be considered in context.
Relief! I Thank you for your Lefferts.
I guess I'm really just trying to point out the obvious.
The Giants can still be successful with alow differential because the pitching is so incredibly awesome.
Relief! I Thank you for your Lefferts.
As did the Diamondbacks in 2007, but that may be the end of that list. We could conceivably get away with it because the divisions so weak, but regardless, i’m not going to order my playoff tickets just yet.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
If he is absolutely going to be in the rotation,
I would pair him and Sanchez as one spot in the rotation. Sanchez gets 5 innings Zito get’s 3 or 4 depending on performance. I believe the A’s tried this with Blanton for a month or so. Can’t remember who they paired him with though.
Relief! I Thank you for your Lefferts.
by Cody_ransom on Jun 17, 2011 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Zitos only saving grace
Is that he has maintained a hr/fb rate far below his career average since becoming a giant. Without it, his FIP would be much higher.
Fangraphs has detailed how the giants have been able to “teach” their pitchers this skill, to keep the ball in the park, in a couple articles.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/matt-cain-isnt-that-unique-after-all/
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-giants-are-doing-it-again/
The articles seem to indicate that the Giants coaching staff, or some other factor, influences their pitchers to pitch better than there peripherals would indicate. In that context, Zitos WAR the last two years does not indicate his true talent level, maybe he’d be closer to a value of 1 WAR per year. When he moves to the bullpen, he’d be lucky to get half the innings he received as a starter, and his WAR presumably would be halved as well.
So we have a pitcher that is worth somewhere around 0.5 WAR per season (if he is able to return to the form of the last two years which is a big if). We have plenty of relief prospects or starters that could easily outperform Zito in this roll, especially if they are “taught” to keep the ball in the park. I would gladly eat half of Zitos salary or more to get rid of him.
If that question were meant for me, then my answer is yes. I’m speaking purely in terms of upside, though. The odds of Bummie reaching that upside are probably 50/50 right now. Let’s not forget, that if Bummie had gone to college, he would just now be finishing his 3rd month of pro ball after signing his contract in August of last year.
I will add that your question misses my point. My point was that we completely control MadBum until the end of the 2016 season, while Timmy could choose to walk away from the team as soon as the end of the 2013 season – and there would be no way we could stop him.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
I was referring to Roger’s comparison to the Lincecum/Rios trade after Timmy’s rookie year. Much as I like Bumgarner, he doesn’t have the value Timmy had at the time for me.
And as much as anyone may like Bumgarner, I’d have to think the odds of him becoming one of the three or four best pitchers in baseball, like Lincecum, are much longer than 50/50.
I wouldn’t disagree with that. But even so, it’s very difficult to get an equivalent return on his value, because the return would have to be a potential star bat with 5 years on control left, and it’s hard to see who would give that up. There are two sort of comps in recent memory, both of which took place int he winter when teams are more likely to reinvent themselves: Volquez/Hamilton and to a lesser extent, Garza/Young. So perhaps there’s an opportunity out there for a blockbuster, but it seems like the potential for disaster is high.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
2010-2011 NL: min 190 IP
Lincecum: 5th xFIP, 6th FIP, 21st ERA, 5th WAR, 7th WAR/IP
Madison: 21st xFIP, 15th FIP, 11th ERA, 25th WAR, 15th WAR/IP
Also: Madison very conservatively projects to have at least a 3 WAR season, giving him 5.6 WAR through age 21.
The following players have at least 4.2 WAR through age 21 in the Expansion era, listed lowest to highest:
Ken Holtzman(4.2), Don Sutton, Greinke, Catfish Hunter, Dennis Blair, Clayton Kershaw (5.4), CC Sabathia (5.5), Britt Burns (5.9), Eck (7.8), King Felix (7.9), Vida Blue, Saberhagen, Mark Fidrych, Dave Rozema, Larry Dierker, Fernando Valenzuela, Gary Nolan, Blyleven, Frank Tanana, Doc Gooden.
That’s some pretty elite company.
never heard of Dennis Blair, but Dave Rozema?!!
by repeat_in_2011 on Jun 18, 2011 12:06 AM PDT up reply actions
Lincecum does seem to have had a suis generis beginning to his career. But Bumgarner’s profile is extraordinarily strong (Top 10 draft pick, historically dominant age 18 minor league season, well above average major league pitcher at 20), his contract status could hardly be better (still under control for 5 more season after 2011, two more dirt cheap pre-arb years), it’s pretty hard to think of many players who offer the cost/reward bonanza that he does right now.
Jay Bruce, for instance, is under control for those same 5 years, for $37 million + a $13 million option for 2017. And Evan Longoria could be under control for those same 5 years for $40.5 million (assuming all the options on his contract are picked up). Beyond that, it’s hard to think of anyone who offers the same kind of value that Bumgarner likely represents, and of course, those teams aren’t going to trade Bruce or Longoria. Which then gets you into the fuzzy Rios kind of zone of overvaluing the next tier of young hitters to a dangerous degree.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
Zito! From Mike Curto the Tacoma PBP guy
Mike Curto
@CurtoWorld
Mike Wilson just hit a Nine-Billion Foot Home Run off Barry Zito.
Twitter Blog
Writing about the MLB Draft at MLBBonusBaby
by Gobroks on Jun 16, 2011 11:32 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
word is that everyone on tacoma
was swinging for the fences on zito
which is the only thing that saved him
he is done….time to move on
eat the salary…giants fans are a forgiving sort
let him go to the yanks…the only team that can score enough runs to keep him in the rotation
I heard that home run was about 475 feet. In Zito’s defense it came in the sixth inning. Even Bruce Bochy has figured out you have to get him out of there with men on base that “late” in the game.
Buster Posey: Let's enjoy him before he goes to the Yankees because he wants to win the World Series. Wait, what???
So anyone down in the Fresno area
Want to know how Hanchez is looking at AAA besides looking at the boxscore
by Falconer88 on Jun 16, 2011 11:47 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Box score looks nice though.
My boy Joe Staley plays lineman on Sundays.
"I will never apologize for watching Bonds dominate" – Duane Kuiper
by Soulbrother16 on Jun 17, 2011 12:35 AM PDT up reply actions
Per Joe Ritzo on twitter Correa has been officially promoted to AA
Twitter Blog
Writing about the MLB Draft at MLBBonusBaby
by Gobroks on Jun 17, 2011 12:03 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
Richmond just sent two relievers to Fresno the other day, too.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
Big Toe Tommy Joe
had one of his hits changed to an error, officially 1-4
Adopted Giant: Jacob Dunnington. Will your team regret passing up on my boy 50 times?
M-M-M-M-Mad, Mad to the Bum
by TimLaser and MattyC on Jun 17, 2011 12:25 AM PDT up reply actions
I’ve never even heard of Joel Weeks
Carter Jurica!
"The trouble with baseball is that it is not played the year round." - Gaylord Perry
by GrahamCrakalaka on Jun 17, 2011 12:41 AM PDT reply actions
Barry good advice:...for a fucktwit
Zito spent the past three days with the Grizzlies and made himself available to teammates who might want an insight into the majors. “If any of the guys come up to me and ask about anything pertaining to my job,” he said, “I’ll say something that might inspire them.”
Read more: http://www.fresnobee.com/2011/06/16/2430501/grizzlies-report-616.html#ixzz1PWX9zZIq
“if I can make 22 million throwing 85 mph, think of what you can do!”
Buster Posey: Let's enjoy him before he goes to the Yankees because he wants to win the World Series. Wait, what???
by rxmeister on Jun 17, 2011 6:15 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Roster moves
Right-hander Dan Otero, the Giants’ 21st-round draft pick in 2007, brings a 2-1 record, 1.42 ERA and 40 strikeouts vs. four walks up from Double-A Richmond. Ryan Lormand also is up from Richmond and fellow infielder Ydwin Villegas was transferred to extended spring training.
Read more: http://www.fresnobee.com/2011/06/16/2430501/grizzlies-report-616.html#ixzz1PWXR0YMF
Otero
is suddenly intriguing again. I seem to recall he was a decent sleeper bullpen prospect before he got hurt and now it appears he’s healthy again and putting up some nice numbers. Don’t know if its legit but if so he could provide some extra pen depth which will be nice when the Giants have no choice but to dump a reliever for the highly anticipated return of good ole Zeets.
California Leaguers beware: Chris Gloor will strike you out faster than you can say "Quinnipiac".
by crazedcrustacean on Jun 17, 2011 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions
I think that he’s legit. The Richmond radio guys have been saying that Otero was the bet reliever in the Richmond pen all spring long.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
10-1 KBB.
Relief! I Thank you for your Lefferts.
by Cody_ransom on Jun 17, 2011 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions
LOL
“Bretty” Bochy
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jun 17, 2011 6:46 AM PDT reply actions
Yep
Lights out numbers his last year at Kansas. He’s overmatching hitters in the Sally so far. I expect we’ll be seeing him (and probably Harrold) in SJ pretty soon now that Hembree and Correa have been sent to Richmond.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
Spent the evening with Zeets
My brother and I and a couple friends traveled to Fresno from Visalia to watch Barry pitch for the Grizzlies. It was “Thirsty Thrusday” which led to a rather large crowd and long lines to get mini kegs of Tecate for $2 each. It was a balmy wonderful night in Fresno to watch the game, which is soon going to be a rarity with the summer heat arriving.
Barry pitched quite well, my fellow Zeet sceptics. We had seats along the first base line a bit behind first base and from our angle his curve appeared to buckle a few knees. Wilson did hit the snot out of the ball in the top of the sixth with two runners on, but it was really one of two or three hard hit balls. Would have liked him to be a bit more economical with his pitches and get deeper into the game, but what the heck – where is he going to fit on the big league club anyway? Sanchez caught a good game and got a couple of hits. Zito was impressed with Sanchez, who he worked with in San Jose. Ford was also on a rehab assignment and he appeared to hurt something in the bottom of the fifth or sixth, as he did not run hard towards first on a ground ball double play. He was then lifted from the field. I was commenting to my friend that the team the Griz had on the field does not appear to contain many sure fire big leaguers. Neal should make it and perhaps Sanchez. Pill might get a look somewhere, but otherwise it is not impressive. Tyler Graham would make a nice 4th or 5th outfielder somewhere, as he is quite fast and I have seen him make some spectacular plays in the field. Otherwise the roster is not too impressive. Had some foolish LA fans sitting in the row in front – I had forgotten how much fun it is to disparage the “Losing Always” Dodgers. Good times in Fresno. :)
Went to the SJ game last night
Brown’s triple was a single that the right fielder dove for and missed, once it got past him it was an easy 3 bags. He didn’t look very good at the plate last night. I’m no scout, but it looked like he wasn’t getting into a good, still position to hit. He was squaring things up, as 3 of his 4 ABs resulted in line drives (IIRC), but the 2 that didn’t fall in and his groundball were all weakly struck.
Tommy Joseph rocks a manly stache but looks like he needs quite a bit of work defensively (though I was sitting behind the plate so I couldn’t always accurately tell how well he was doing)
Mixon was pretty bad. Guys had their guns out for the first batter or two, and then just put them away. He seemed to be between 81-83, not sure if that’s normal for him, but he wasn’t fooling anyone.
by GuyWhiteyCorngood on Jun 17, 2011 8:42 AM PDT reply actions
Panik's successful debut in the S-K exhibition game
The Volcanoes won their exhibition game against a collection of Oregon and Washington state college players. Highlights:
Joe Panik hit a double in his first AB, and finished 2 for 4.
Joe Staley, the C/IF from the 2010 draft, hit 2 HRs – 1 from both sides of the plate.
Brice Cutspec, the NDFA from 2010, hit a 3-run HR in the first inning
Chuckie Jones stole 3B and started in LF.
Here’s the article on the game from the local paper – including a nice 8 picture slide-show from the game:
http://www.statesmanjournal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2011106170340
The Volcanoes finally updated their on-line roster – just in time for their season-opening game in Spokane tonight. It’s the same one that Brute posted on his blog 2 days ago. There’s no true 3B on the roster, and only 6 infielders total, so I have to believe there’s another guy or 2 that will be added to the roster later. If the Giants can sign Garrett Buechele, the 3B from Oklahoma, in the next few weeks then he would be a perfect fit in S-K. Here’s the link to the roster:
http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?t=t_ros&cid=578
Manager Tom Treblehorn named his starting rotation for the first week of the season. It will be Cameron Lamb, Brandon Allen, Reinier Roibal, Kendry Flores and Lorenzo Mendoza. You might notice that they’re all right-handers and that there are only 5 guys and none of them is Matt Graham. I’m pretty sure they’ll have a 6 man rotation so another pitcher is probably on the way (maybe Kevin Couture?), or they’ll name Jack Snodgrass, the recently-signed college lefty, as the 6th starter. Snodgrass was a starter in college.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
Is it too much to...
put Panik in SJ? I mean, he’s a polished college MI…
Relief! I Thank you for your Lefferts.
by Cody_ransom on Jun 17, 2011 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions
That’s a pretty big jump from college. Better to give him at least a month in the NWL to get his feet wet. Even Buster Posey started out in S-K.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
It’s not like it’s exactly a major college program either. Plus he’s a north-east kid, which means he’s dealt with the long winters suppressing development time all his life. Wouldn’t seem like a great candidate for super-aggressive promotion to me.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
+1
He did get a leg-up by playing in the Cape Cod League last summer, but I would put the level of overall competition in that league slighlty below what Panik should face in the NWL.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
Makes sense.
Relief! I Thank you for your Lefferts.
by Cody_ransom on Jun 17, 2011 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions
MY BOY!
My boy Joe Staley plays lineman on Sundays.
"I will never apologize for watching Bonds dominate" – Duane Kuiper
by Soulbrother16 on Jun 17, 2011 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions
Your boy is an impressive specimen.
Adopted father of Brian Bocock, Brad Boyer, Sharlon Schoop, Shane Jordan, Jeremiah Luster,Trey Webb,David Quinowski, and Jeff Arnold.
"GM Jack Zduriencik is one of the sharper tools in the shed. Elsewhere in that shed, Brian Sabean continues to pound screws into bricks with a garden rake."
I was hoping for a picture of him in the slide show but no luck.
My boy Joe Staley plays lineman on Sundays.
"I will never apologize for watching Bonds dominate" – Duane Kuiper
by Soulbrother16 on Jun 17, 2011 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions
I just noticed
That’s a pretty diverse mix of pitchers in the starting rotation:
1 Aussie, 1 Cuban, 2 Dominicans, and 1 Floridian.
Nobody from above the 30th parallel need apply!
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
Did you just call SFDugout a blog?
:(
/sarcasm…at least partly…
"The knowledge of the game is inversely proportional to the price of the seat." ---Bill Veeck. •Check out the new look of SFDugout.com•
by BruteSentiment on Jun 17, 2011 4:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Sorry for being such a lazyy wordsmith. It’s just that “blog” is so much easier to type than “treasured destination” – as you would prefer.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
SK
Played their exhibition last night against the “College Allstars” which from the program looks to be composed of freshmen and sophomore’s from the Oregon/Washington area.
Most impressive to me last night was Julio Izturis. Dude can play some serious 2nd base. Made at least 3 plays that an average 2nd basemen does not get to. Needs lots of work with the bat however.
Panik fielded everything that came to him cleanly and hit the ball well. Didn’t write it down but he had to have been 2-4 or better. Obviously was seeing the ball well and hitting hard line drives.
Staley, a catcher, hit 2 bombs last night that were shots. Also struck out twice so it seems like all or nothing but gotta like the power. Decent behind the plate, no passed balls and a good arm to 2nd.
Chuckie is here, dude’s an impressive specimen. He hit the ball well too and seemed pretty polished, went with the pitch and drove it oppo and looked good doing it.
Pitching didn’t rock my world but they were obviously adequate as the score was 9-2 but it was Thirsty Thursday and I was doing my part to give away $1 bills for small cups of Coors light so my memory may be a bit foggy.
Anyhow, good start and I think we may have a decent team this year.
Adopted father of Brian Bocock, Brad Boyer, Sharlon Schoop, Shane Jordan, Jeremiah Luster,Trey Webb,David Quinowski, and Jeff Arnold.
"GM Jack Zduriencik is one of the sharper tools in the shed. Elsewhere in that shed, Brian Sabean continues to pound screws into bricks with a garden rake."
Thanks for the report
The pitching looks a lot better and deeper this year – which is the key in the lower minors.
From the game story it seems to me that the lineup was:
C- Staley
1B – Cutspec
2b – Izturis
SS – Panik
3B – Eshelman
LF – Jones
CF – Galindo
RF – Krill
Is that right, Rich? If so, it seems strange to me that Treblehorn had Cuckie in LF. His arm and speed seem to profile better in RF to me, and Brett Krill was a LF in college – not known for his D or arm.
How did Jesus Galindo look? He’s supposed to be as fast as greased lightning and an OBP machine.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
"Cuckie?"
I didn’t know he had a mean wife! No confidence!
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jun 17, 2011 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions
Gilchrist?
Relief! I Thank you for your Lefferts.
by Cody_ransom on Jun 17, 2011 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions
Chuckie was in left the whole game. Krill was adequate to the task but really wasn’t challenged at all. He did make a throw to home on 2 hops from medium deep right, I thought his arm looked good.
Galindo did look pretty good and made flashed speed running down a couple of well hit balls. Didn’t get a feel for his arm as he really didn’t need to throw.
Brock was the starting 1st baseman and Cutspec came in later in the game. Both were adequate, nothing spectacular. The bomb Cutspec hit in the first was a moon shot over the right field wall that I really didn’t think would get out. Prevailing winds blow out to right so he may have had some help though it was not particularly windy last night. He started the game as the dh.
Adopted father of Brian Bocock, Brad Boyer, Sharlon Schoop, Shane Jordan, Jeremiah Luster,Trey Webb,David Quinowski, and Jeff Arnold.
"GM Jack Zduriencik is one of the sharper tools in the shed. Elsewhere in that shed, Brian Sabean continues to pound screws into bricks with a garden rake."
how was panik's arm?
because that is apparently his only question mark
Looked fine though he didn’t have to throw from deep in the hole, made all the routine plays.
Adopted father of Brian Bocock, Brad Boyer, Sharlon Schoop, Shane Jordan, Jeremiah Luster,Trey Webb,David Quinowski, and Jeff Arnold.
"GM Jack Zduriencik is one of the sharper tools in the shed. Elsewhere in that shed, Brian Sabean continues to pound screws into bricks with a garden rake."
Binghamton: SS Jordanny Valdespin: 3 for 6, 2 HR, SB, E
That has to be a made-up name from MLB The Show.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jun 17, 2011 10:36 AM PDT reply actions
What about Rougned Odor, 17 year old SS prospect the Rangers are sending to NWL?
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
That looks like a Stuttering John Tamargo anagram.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jun 17, 2011 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions
Speaking of weird names...
Whatever happened to Dashenko Ricardo? He is the catcher that the Giants took off the Orioles minor league roster during the minor league portion of the Rule 5 draft last year. The Giants were supposed to be converting him into a pitcher. Don’t the Giants have to have him on an active roster this year (barring injury) in order to keep him?
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
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