THE TOP 5 REASONS THE GIANTS NEED A CATCHER
by Splash-Hit on Jun 15, 2011 12:28 AM PDT
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#5 Too many pass balls and the inability to block or even find a wild pitch. I’ve never seen so many come up missing? Add two more for tonight. Tim Lincecum can’t throw his best change-up in the dirt with runners on base without these two clowns spinning around to chase it to the backstop.
#4 Since Buster Posey went down, Lincecum's numbers alone over his last 4 starts VOID any such "knowledge of the pitching staff" excuse. Try 28 hits over only 22.1 innings.
#3 Yep. That’s the same number of combined RBI’s between these two fill-in catchers on the season.
#2 Opponents love to run on a wiener arm. The numbers: Whiteside has thrown out only 5 of 27 attempts while Stewart is 2 of 4. That has the Giants foes stealing successfully 83 percent of the time.
#1 Is the current combined .186 Batting Average between the two backstops. Madison Bumgarner, Ryan Vogelsong, and Jonathan Sanchez combine for a .242 Average themselves which means 3 out of 5 games these catchers should be batting 9th in the order. I vote for "NOT AT ALL!"
Anyone out there can match the production we’ve seen. ANYONE! Hell, we have three pitchers in the starting rotation out hitting these two. Waiting for a waiver wire deal is not really shopping for the answer deserving of this defending World Champion club. It’s just playing the next card your dealt and this team needs an answer behind the plate now. With Bruce Bochy stating today that Vogelsong has secured his spot in the rotation over Zito, how about sending the "Z" back to the Oakland A's with around $35 million to cover the majority of his remaining contract and grabbing Kurt Suzuki? Give Oakland their choice of Chris Stewart or Eli Whiteside if it makes them feel better. It could work well for both bay area teams as well as Barry Zito. The Giants would then have the added benefit of a suitable backup to Buster Posey next season who would know the pitching staff and could be inserted should the team look to relocate Buster to another position in the future. This is just a solution I came up with but the long term upside here over the fan calls for "Ivan Rodriguez" or a "Benji Molina" is substantial.
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Madison Bumgarner, Ryan Vogelsong, and Jonathan Sanchez combine for a .242 Average themselves which means 3 days a week these catchers should be batting 9th.
You mean that for 3 days out of 5 the pitchers should be batting 9th lol.
Adoptive father of Jose Casilla.
5. Whiteside has been having defensive problems. Stewart has not.
4. It is possible that Lincecum is struggling because he is not comfortable with the catcher. How would bringing in a new catcher, with no prior experience with the staff, alleviate any such issue?
3. Yes, Stewart and Whiteside are not good hitters. Their lack of RBI’s is not reflective of their inability to hit. Because, well, RBI’s.
2. Stewart has an absolute cannon. Regardless, most stolen bases against the Giants are on the pitcher, not the catcher, since the organization apparently puts a lot more emphasis on the delivery to home, rather than first.
1. Yes, Whiteside and Stewart probably can’t hit the broadside of a barn.
So your solution is to send Zito, Stewart/Whiteside, and $30 million+ to the A’s for Kurt Suzuki? This package probably wouldn’t land Landon Powell. The A’s have no use for an overpaid starting pitcher (even $30 million wouldn’t reduce Zito’s contract to his true value, or lack thereof, since Zito’s value is largely derived from his ability to pitch 200 innings of average to below average baseball, and the A’s grow pitchers who routinely perform better than that on trees), even with their recent bout of injuries.
My adopted Giant, the young Reinier Roibal
Yes, but other than all that . . . .
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
Indeed.
Let’s face it, the “do nothing” solution is bleedin’ obvious. You put Stewart in there as primary catcher for the rest of the season. You’re going to see absolutely no reliable production off of him but he’ll get meaningful major league time behind the plate and you won’t have to hide behind the couch when it’s Slider In The Dirt Time™. On his days off, you put Whiteside in there and make sure that it’s not Lincecum pitching that day (Dirty/Whiteside matchups are fine).
Next year, Posey catches (hopefully), Stewart is the backup catcher and Whiteside gets a nice handshake, a world series ring and a chance to warm the bench somewhere else. If Posey can’t do it, Sabean has to spend some money for 2012 and find a real one. Stewart is still the backup catcher at this point.
For this pitching staff, you’ve got to have one who meets basic levels of defensive skill. They’re not grooving fastballs over the plate (with the exception of Casilla). From the SSS, Stewart looks like he’s got the skills to be a respectable backup catcher in the majors – he’s agile and has good accuracy/release times on throws to 2nd. Unless he chews the same magic hitting taffy (hi Grant) as Torres did a couple of years back, he’s mediocre at best when batting. Them’s the breaks.
Anything worthwhile in catcher terms this year will block Posey next year. That might be fine with some fans but I don’t think Posey’s on board with this plan.
The only thing stopping this plan from succeeding is that the Giants are managed by an ex-catcher who was once bumped for a younger player. Whiteside is going to have to lose the confidence of the starters and Righetti before Stewart is the everyday replacement.
And that’s not going to be fun to watch.
Somewhat agree
I think they need to explore all options to find another catcher, but given my druthers I would have Stewart back there everyday as his defense is far superior to Whiteside’s, not to mention that Whiteside has a first basemen’s arm. I’m not at all concerned with anyone “blocking” Posey next year unless they trade for McCann or Mauer, neither of which would be a bad problem to have.
Of course Bork will stick with Whiteside because Whiteside reminds him of himself except with a smaller head, so I think you’re right that we should all get ready for a lot more debates on whether it should have been ruled a passed ball or a wild pitch.
I still believe in Santa Clause and Bowkermania!
Proud adoptive parent of Brett Bochy, he's my boy now Bruce!
by Giant Torture on Jun 15, 2011 4:54 AM PDT up reply actions
yup
“do nothing” = Whiteside 5 or more days per week, unless Stewart gets multiple starts with multiple hit games in a week.
And
Anything worthwhile in catcher terms this year will block Posey next year. That might be fine with some fans but I don’t think Posey’s on board with this plan.
is wrong. It was wrong in 2010. It is wrong now. It will be wrong next year. Had they signed a real catcher last year to a two-year deal (likely for less money than who they did sign) that guy would still be on the roster now, and could be extended if need be. There would be no panic trade, and no need for one. If they do nothing, and Posey struggles when he comes back or doesn’t return on Opening Day, there’s another year of Whiteside and Stewart.
Pittsburgh, as an example, lost both their catchers. It’s not crazy to think that a catcher will be injured and a backup will need extended playing time, and a team with serious aspirations to return to the postseason needs to think that way (and why Cincinnati probably won’t trade either of their catchers).
May 29, 2010: Steven Revetria becomes Giants General Manager. The rest is history.
"118 elements, and still no stanfurdium"- carp, paraphrased
Bandwagons are fun- that's why people get on them in the first place.
by natteringnabob on Jun 15, 2011 5:25 AM PDT up reply actions
"do nothing" = Whiteside 5 or more days per week,
Yeah, okay. Fair point. That’s the full “do nothing”, sadly. I should have written “spend nothing”. As for catchers, I haven’t seen them stock major league starter-quality catchers in depth in the 10 years or so I’ve been watching them. Older Giants fans might be able to cite examples but I can’t.
Whatever staffing theories Sabean holds dear, they don’t appear to extend to having multiple credible catchers on staff. That was the basis of the observation. I’d love to be proved wrong tho’.
Bob Brenly and Terry Kennedy!
The whole another catcher will block Posey theory is ridiculous, so much so that it doesn’t need to be proven wrong.
I still believe in Santa Clause and Bowkermania!
Proud adoptive parent of Brett Bochy, he's my boy now Bruce!
by Giant Torture on Jun 15, 2011 6:47 AM PDT up reply actions
sadly, I don't think you will
Bonds, Benitez, Nen…. Plan B is never an option when someone is coming off an injury, and it won’t be again.
If they do something it will be for a rent-a-catcher who’ll walk in the offseason.
May 29, 2010: Steven Revetria becomes Giants General Manager. The rest is history.
"118 elements, and still no stanfurdium"- carp, paraphrased
Bandwagons are fun- that's why people get on them in the first place.
by natteringnabob on Jun 15, 2011 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Good catchers are rare
Having two good catchers is really rare. when it happens, teams usually trade one to fill another need.
The thong is, it happened.
that's good news!
We could use one.
May 29, 2010: Steven Revetria becomes Giants General Manager. The rest is history.
"118 elements, and still no stanfurdium"- carp, paraphrased
Bandwagons are fun- that's why people get on them in the first place.
by natteringnabob on Jun 15, 2011 5:58 PM PDT up reply actions
C'mon
The only thing stopping this plan from succeeding is that the Giants are managed by an ex-catcher who was once bumped for a younger player
I’m so sick of this argument. Do people really think think Bochy says, “I was shitty catcher and having a shitty catcher in your starting lineup is more important than having a good one?”
I’ll buy that he might place a higher importance in “calling a good game” than many/most here would, but the Molina/Posey situation seemed pretty clear, especially in hindsight, that Molina was playing over Posey for two reasons:
- Concerns of the pitching staff (Timmy especially seemed to think of Molina as his security blanket)
- Showcasing him for a trade (This notion was scoffed at then, but he did end up getting traded)
The thong is, it happened.
by Goofus on Jun 15, 2011 5:59 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’m so sick of this argument. Do people really think think Bochy says, "I was shitty catcher and having a shitty catcher in your starting lineup is more important than having a good one?"
No, I don’t. But I do think he thinks that veterans have earned the right to play thru’ a rough patch over being yanked for a fresh rookie. That’s been his MO for the past few years and it isn’t going to change now – especially not for a position that he has strong opinions on.
Is that rooted in Bochy’s player history? Who the hell knows – I’ll concede it was a cheap, Psych 101 line. But it’s pretty obvious that Whiteside is struggling with basic catching and Stewart really isn’t. I’m not sure how many more weeks we’re going to have to watch Whiteside butcher his way thru’ 5 out of 6 games but I do know that we’re going to see Whiteside for a lot longer than is necessary to make our minds up.
That’s the only point I was trying to make. And, let’s face it, Whiteside isn’t being showcased for anyone at this point.
Whiteside is struggling defesively in limited sample size...no question
But until Posey went down, how many of us ever were concerned about his defense? He had over 650 innings over the previous two season and I don’t recall anyone fretting over his defensive skills. I really don’t think Whiteside is as bad as he’s shown recently. He told Marty Lurie he was losing concentration back there and I suspect he’s feeling pressure filling in for Buster and getting a little fatigued with the extra workload.
Personally, I expressed concern over his lack of offense in the off-season and proposed that backup catcher was our weakest spot for two reasons:
- Back up catchers get more playing time than other backups and hit bat is weak
- If Buster were to get hurt, we’d be screwed
If you’re arguing that Stewart should be playing ahead of Whiteside, that’s fine, but have you looked at their carrer offensive numbers?
Whiteside career OPS: 634
Stewart career OPS: 437 (SSS)
There’s a reason Whiteside was a backup big-league catcher and Stewart wasn’t even that. You have do some pretty amazing things on defense to make up for 197 points of OPS.
Unless some really good trade materializes, I think Whiteside should be the primary catcher, with Stewart catching once or twice per rotation or simply come in as a defensive replacement in the late innings like Nate used to do for Burrell.
The thong is, it happened.
Are you some kind of doomsday prophet?
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way. - SLC
Ha! Not at all
Just realistic enough to observe it was an area of vulnerability
The thong is, it happened.
Thank you.
The Short-Attention-Span Theater crowd seem to forget that for the last couple of years the universally accepted line on Whiteside was “weak bat, but excellent defense, good enough to sub for Posey as needed.” Why and how would one suppose that that defensive ability suddenly sublimed into thin air?
Also, the Sandoval factor seems to be getting glossed right over. If, as it sounds more like every day, they get him to where he can catch a couple of days a week, Whiteside (or whomever) becomes the 3rd catcher, there just for dire emergencies.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
Just wondering: are all the defenses of Stewart’s ability to block balls posted before or after last night’s 9th inning. Because that was a big time PB on a pretty easy chance that could quite well have cost the game.
Count me among the uncomforted.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
True, but I would still prefer more equitable playing time between the two until one of them rises to the top or falls off the face of the earth. Still, Stewart does have a much better arm and even when he misses balls like last night, it’s not because he’s trying to backhand balls he should be getting in front of.
I still believe in Santa Clause and Bowkermania!
Proud adoptive parent of Brett Bochy, he's my boy now Bruce!
by Giant Torture on Jun 15, 2011 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions
Sliders and Change-Ups Banned
I agree. Free 90’ gifts spell disaster. The staff needs to have complete confidence they can excecute every pitch at any time. The filth is what makes them great!
Nice Sir and very sound but $35 million not $30 million.
The actual figure I threw out was $35 million though no $30 million. The A’s do grow pitchers who perfrom better than Zito on tress but their limbs seem to fall off a bit. Fall off or fall short. I’m thinking 09 when they claimed Vin Mazzaro was the next Tim Lincecum.
I'm ignoring everything here
except “Kurt Suzuki”. That would be super.
San Jose for Kurt: GIT R DUNN!
May 29, 2010: Steven Revetria becomes Giants General Manager. The rest is history.
"118 elements, and still no stanfurdium"- carp, paraphrased
Bandwagons are fun- that's why people get on them in the first place.
Athletics Nation seems to like the idea of acquiring Zito, and it would make a bit of sense. It would be cool (albeit infuriating) to see him do well again in the friendly confines of the Coliseum. The Giants won’t get anything of value for him, though.
"Lee pitches...Renteria hits a high drive, deep left-center field, David Murphy going back, he's on the warning track—it is...go-one!"
Maybe not
The Giants are just one more injury to a Yankees starting pitcher away from dealing Zito for value.
I still believe in Santa Clause and Bowkermania!
Proud adoptive parent of Brett Bochy, he's my boy now Bruce!
by Giant Torture on Jun 15, 2011 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions
I still don’t think the Yankees want Zito.
"Lee pitches...Renteria hits a high drive, deep left-center field, David Murphy going back, he's on the warning track—it is...go-one!"
It’s my delusion and I’ll believe what I want to.
I still believe in Santa Clause and Bowkermania!
Proud adoptive parent of Brett Bochy, he's my boy now Bruce!
by Giant Torture on Jun 15, 2011 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions
that's because
THE YANKEES DO NOT WANT BARRY ZITO.
There is a league full of pitchers, and three leagues of AAA pitchers, that they will try before it comes to that.
May 29, 2010: Steven Revetria becomes Giants General Manager. The rest is history.
"118 elements, and still no stanfurdium"- carp, paraphrased
Bandwagons are fun- that's why people get on them in the first place.
by natteringnabob on Jun 15, 2011 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions
I don’t think they want want him, but if you’re desperate a 200 IP/yr averagey pitcher is nothing to scrape off the bottom of your shoe.
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Jun 15, 2011 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions
They will not take that contract when they can throw money or prospects at anyone else.
May 29, 2010: Steven Revetria becomes Giants General Manager. The rest is history.
"118 elements, and still no stanfurdium"- carp, paraphrased
Bandwagons are fun- that's why people get on them in the first place.
by natteringnabob on Jun 15, 2011 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions
But why take one with a $300 trillion dollar contract when there’s nice affordable Jason Marquis’ or Jon Garland types scattered hither and thither to be had.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
I think the assumption is the Ginats would have to eat roughly half the contract if they're ever to deal him
The thong is, it happened.
He’s still owed a minimum of approx. $58 million (max of about $69). Even paying half the freight there’s better and cheaper options available out there. Especially with his velocity back down in the low to mid 80s again.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
So eat more of it.
As is incessantly remarked, it’s a sunk cost. If you can get something nontrivially more valuable to the team than Zito is, then eat as much as necessary to make the deal. It’s not going to cost anything extra, and the team is improved. Where is the rocket surgery in that?
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
At some point he becomes more valuable as a 6ht starter
if you eat too much of his contract. Especially considering we really don’t have anyone else for that role since Vogelsong was such a crappy 6th starter we had to move him to the rotation.
The thong is, it happened.
Is it not generally agreed . . .
. . . that his warmup routine makes bullpen use A Bad Idea? (If not flat-out imposible?) And the 6-starter thing just takes 1/6 of each better starter’s time and gives it to the 6th-best man. If Zito showed an 85 or 86 mph fastball in Fresno, or iof Vogelsong blew up badly two or three times in a row, the decision might be easier; as it stands, trading Zito and eating as much of his salary as needed to get any useful part at all seems to make the most sense.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
I would hope a Championship Team would never reach that point of Dispair
The Giants are stretching out Dan Runzler in Fresno and reports are he’s looking very good though his stamina is not there yet. Kruk just gave a little update on him this last weekend. RHSP Zack Wheeler is also waiting in the wings down 101 in San Jose and having a great season. Teams can get by with a call up or rental starter should someone go down. As stated there are three leagues of AAA pitchers should the need arise. The Giants need to reload at catcher for any hope to contend in the post season. The 5th starter is mute in the post season placing greater importance on the current void behind the plate. Zito is of NO value to the Giants in reserve or in the pen, so I agree with owlcroft in that you choke down what is necessary and get the best catcher you can. Paying the remaining balance on his contract for no benefit is as ridiculous as the original inking.
The Oakland A’s offer the following salvation:
1. Kurt Suzuki as an immediate fill or future replacement should Posey not be ready in 2012 or need to move positions.
2. They sell anyone to save a buck at this point every year. It’s like Christmas and they love to get healthy by means of their annual fire sale.
3. If the Oakland faithful are not pissed off and gone yet, then they never will be.
4. Zito would likely love to get the hell out of San Francisco and back to Oakland. He clearly disagrees with the lack of value the Giants now grace him with and previously expressed his desire to stay in the West making a return to Oakland the most likely avenue with his no trade clause.
5. All the above results in Oakland being able to sell Suzuki’s contract while retaining a big money name on the roster in case they should find a few fans to care. They have worked damn hard to run the fans off and move to San Jose so I believe fan backlash would be welcomed if anything.
"there are three leagues of AAA pitchers"
No lonmger; now there are two.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
It’s a sunk cost to us, but why exactly does that make him more appealing to others? So let’s say the Giants for whatever reason decide to eat the entire $60 million just for the fun of not having him around anymore, AND all we ask in exchange is some A ball roster filler AND we also somehow pay Zito whatever’s necessary to forgo his No Trade Clause (which is by the way illegal).
Is it not conceivable that the Yankees or whoever we’re talking to STILL ISN’T INTERESTED. Because they’ve heard the cat howls, and read the headlines and know that even if something useful is there there could be some blow back from fans, and if he blows up in the teams face (which is entirely possible) they’ll get a lot of blowback from the fans. Or maybe they just don’t like his hair. Whatever, I think the notion that our being willing to eat and entire 3 years 60 mil is the only thing necessary to move him is a little simplistic. There are other options out there that teams still might find more enticing.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
"Is it not conceivable . . . ."
Quite a bit is “conceivable”, even putting the toothpaste back into the tube. That does not make any of it probable.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
I don’t know that moving Zito is probable either, and I don’t think eat whatever’s necessary is a magic bullet to make it probable (for one thing, please please take this guy that I’m willing to pay $40/50/60 million to give away isn’t the world’s greatest sales pitch).
Three years ago when he was throwing his fastball consistently in the mid to low 80s Zito was a significantly below average pitcher. That velo took an uptick the last couple of years, but his performances in April pre-injury showed some of the worst velocity he’s had as a Giant. The radar readings from SJ picked right up where he left off with FB readings consistently in the low 80s.
Surely somebody thinking of trading for him would send scouts to look at him, and I’d guess when asked what they think, those scouts might well ask, “can’t we find somebody who throws harder than 84?”
Without even getting into the original idea of actually getting a valuable player in return, there’s more to the equation (particularly in a mid-season trade) than simply: keep eating more money. You have to actually be able to make the other team want to acquire him.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
The goalposts are moving.
A team that urgently needs starting pitching and that can get a recognized veteran but not yet old starter for very little cash is likely to take a chance. What the Giants do or do not think of him is irrelevant. While the Giants want something back worth having, that doesn’t have to make it something precious. They are in the strange but enviable position of having six qualified starters, and no way to use the 6th in the bullpen. Considering the 5 in front of him, that does not reduce his status to junkman. If his average velocity is 84 or better, any needy team might risk a medium-sized trade token to acquire him if the cash component isn’t grave.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
Not entirely true
What the Giants do or do not think of him is irrelevant.
Some teams might be gauging what the Giants think of him in anticipation of him being outrighted. If the team volunteers to eat $50M and no one bites, that probably indicates they have no plans for him whatsoever, in which case eating the $8M is conceivable.
The thong is, it happened.
this will all look pretty silly
if they really turn down a deal for Yorvit because they don’t want to pay him $3M next year.
May 29, 2010: Steven Revetria becomes Giants General Manager. The rest is history.
"118 elements, and still no stanfurdium"- carp, paraphrased
Bandwagons are fun- that's why people get on them in the first place.
by natteringnabob on Jun 16, 2011 8:25 AM PDT up reply actions
The goalposts aren’t moving on my end. My contention is that you are reducing a very complicated and very difficult situation to banal simplicities and then blasting anyone who doesn’t think the situation is simple.
So let me put it this way: if it’s possible to move him it’ll likely happen. We’ll see whether or not it’s possible in the coming month.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
exactly
They can call up Oliver Perez when he’s playing video games. There’s no shortage of Zitos, and only one that earns the GDP of a Central American country.
May 29, 2010: Steven Revetria becomes Giants General Manager. The rest is history.
"118 elements, and still no stanfurdium"- carp, paraphrased
Bandwagons are fun- that's why people get on them in the first place.
by natteringnabob on Jun 15, 2011 5:59 PM PDT up reply actions
They are not comparable.
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Jun 15, 2011 6:17 PM PDT up reply actions
I think $50M and $0 aren’t comparable either.
May 29, 2010: Steven Revetria becomes Giants General Manager. The rest is history.
"118 elements, and still no stanfurdium"- carp, paraphrased
Bandwagons are fun- that's why people get on them in the first place.
by natteringnabob on Jun 16, 2011 8:25 AM PDT up reply actions
It turns out that the lowest GDP of any Central American country is Haiti, with theirs being just over $11 billion a year.
Wow, now I feel a whole lot better about the Albatross Contract!
What can (Gary) Brown do for you?
1. Buttafuoco! Buttafuoco! Buttafuoco!
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
But-a-few-o-koh
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Jun 15, 2011 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions
I just had a thought
Do you suppose Brian Sabean would be willing to compromise the bullpen to bring in a catcher? My obvious point of reference is Matt Capps for Wilson Ramos, but of course the Giants would never trade Brian Wilson. What about Sergio Romo, though?
Please please please help Red Wave Central become the official Fresno State Bulldogs blog of SB Nation! If you're a Bulldog diehard who wants to help, check here for contact information.
It's Wilson or nothing.
Romo doesn’t have the trade value to get what they need.
Adoptive father of Jose Casilla.
Says who?
As much as I love B-weezy, I might take Romo over him head to head.
I still believe in Santa Clause and Bowkermania!
Proud adoptive parent of Brett Bochy, he's my boy now Bruce!
by Giant Torture on Jun 15, 2011 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions
'Established closer' tag
Maybe that might not be a thing anymore. I don’t know.
by chilibean_3 on Jun 15, 2011 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm not disputing that Wilson might have more trade value
But to say that Romo doesn’t have the trade value to get what they need is going a bit far.
I still believe in Santa Clause and Bowkermania!
Proud adoptive parent of Brett Bochy, he's my boy now Bruce!
by Giant Torture on Jun 15, 2011 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions
OK, well then.
If Wilson has more trade value, but you would take Romo over him head to head (I would, too, btw) then there’s no point in trading Romo instead of Wilson.
I think this may have been my original point, phrased badly.
Adoptive father of Jose Casilla.
From a pure baseball perspective, yes, but from the business side of things that would be an insanely stupid deal. You just don’t trade one of the 2 or 3 most popular players on a winning team, not unless you don’t like season ticket holders.
I still believe in Santa Clause and Bowkermania!
Proud adoptive parent of Brett Bochy, he's my boy now Bruce!
by Giant Torture on Jun 15, 2011 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Dire Straits--Minors for Nothing Who Could Catch for Free
I’m just whining here, not proposing any real solution, but I ‘m still not sure why we dumped Steve Holm last year for Whiteside’s experience. At least he know how to take a walk and he looked like a catcher. Granted this year he’s 2 for 18 with 1 walk, but in 2009 with 98 plate appearances he was at .357 .405 .762. That would almost lead our team this year.
And I’m happy for Kelly, I mean, Matt Downs, but his SSS line of 393 .551 .944 in 94 PA’s would be looking awfully nice for us at 2B or at 3B before yesterday.
Why do we simply give away potentially useful players? And I sure hope Sabean would not trade Romo for a rent-a-catcher.
Matt Downs
An education in 40 man roster management.
I still believe in Santa Clause and Bowkermania!
Proud adoptive parent of Brett Bochy, he's my boy now Bruce!
by Giant Torture on Jun 15, 2011 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions
This is a true statement
I'm a Giants Fan, but I'll always be rooting for Matt Downs
Adopted Son:Dan Burkhart , Future Backup To Buster Posey.
Rajai Davis says hi
May 29, 2010: Steven Revetria becomes Giants General Manager. The rest is history.
"118 elements, and still no stanfurdium"- carp, paraphrased
Bandwagons are fun- that's why people get on them in the first place.
by natteringnabob on Jun 15, 2011 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions
This would make a great Bleacher Report slideshow.
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way. - SLC
With a pop up ad on each page that auto plays loud video ! YEA!
by chilibean_3 on Jun 15, 2011 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions
This is an important point that shouldn’t be overlooked.
I still believe in Santa Clause and Bowkermania!
Proud adoptive parent of Brett Bochy, he's my boy now Bruce!
by Giant Torture on Jun 15, 2011 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions
I think you’re overstating the abilities of the current tandem.
May 29, 2010: Steven Revetria becomes Giants General Manager. The rest is history.
"118 elements, and still no stanfurdium"- carp, paraphrased
Bandwagons are fun- that's why people get on them in the first place.
by natteringnabob on Jun 15, 2011 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Wasn't there an inning a couple nights ago
Where the opposing catcher never touched the ball? it was all foul balls and putouts. I think Kuip even commented on it
The thong is, it happened.
Pedro Feliz can catch
And he has a strong accurate arm.
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