It's a second base poll!
by Keenlow on Jun 11, 2011 8:36 PM PDT
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PrintLately it seems like the Giants can't go through a full nine without losing someone, and it always seems to be the guys who are actually playing well. Not that I would wish an injury on anyone, because that's horrible. Anyway, straightforward poll, who do you think would be best at second for the foreseeable future? Personally I would like to see Pill just because it seems like the craziest move. Hell, if Neil Walker can play an average 2B (.2 dwar in 2011) why not Pill?
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this, times infinity
bonds is the best player ever, haterz gonna hate
Trade Sabean/jk...Overthrow the Ydorks...
Hall against LHP, Fontenot against RHP. Burriss not on the team.
Ask me about my blog.
by xanthan on Jun 11, 2011 9:49 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
Yes
And, for good measure, someone better at SS.
Gigante. Campeón. Pumpkin. Andrés Torres.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
Thread Over
I'm a Giants Fan, but I'll always be rooting for Matt Downs
Adopted Son:Dan Burkhart , Future Backup To Buster Posey.
You and me and two others (so far) comprise this contingent . Pro-Pill. He can hit, maybe at the ML level, and he can’t eff up 2B that bad, can he?
Fathaigh go mbuaimid!
Proud adoptive Father of Joe Panik. Stolen 6/11/11.
Job 1:14-15
Think about it:
Manny Burriss came up as a middle infielder, and look at him (or, better, don’t). Pill came up as a first baseman. What do you think?
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
Sorry, you're right.
I forgot that nobody playing baseball has ever been successful at making a position change in the history of the game because once you are competent at one position, you can’t learn another.
Fathaigh go mbuaimid!
Proud adoptive Father of Joe Panik. Stolen 6/11/11.
Job 1:14-15
Ever hear the phrase "defensive spectrum"?
If not, you could look it up.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
My god, you are such a condescending ass.
I don’t need to look it up. I am not an ignoramus. I understand Brett Pill will never win the TFB award as a 2nd baseman. But he’s playing 2B right now, his RF is higher as a 2B than Pablo’s as a 3B, and MAYBE, he can play/learn SUFFICIENT 2B defense, and HOPEFULLY hit in the Majors, and I would prefer that experiment to any proposed in the poll.
BTW, I like you owlcroft, I respect your knowledge and intelligence, and I mean “condescending ass” in the nicest way possible.
Fathaigh go mbuaimid!
Proud adoptive Father of Joe Panik. Stolen 6/11/11.
Job 1:14-15
this exactly (not the condescending ass part, haha) rather, the part about learning to play another position sufficiently.
I also would very much like to at least test Pill at 2nd in the majors because he may have the chance to be above average offensively at the position.
Neil Walker went from Catcher to 3rd in the minors, at both positions he was considered below average defensively. The Pirates moved him to second and promoted him to the majors because, well, they’re the Pirates and what do they have to lose? Somehow between last year and this he somehow became an adequate defender. As I said in the post heading, why not Pill? He supposedly has a good glove, so the question becomes one of how well he gets to the ball, i.e. range and the nuances of the position. The nuances are something that can, I think, come in time, so range is what I think becomes the big question. It’s moot anyway, the Giants don’t have that same key the Pirates have, desperation.
Mr. Flibble is very cross.
Look:
Why do you suppose he has been a first baseman all his time till the Fresnos just flat ran out of middle infielders, and had to put someone there or lose a lot of games by default? Do you not reckon that if, till that moment, anyone in the organization had had a gleam of a hint of a wisp of an idea that Pill might play 2B even barely adequately enough to ever play there in the majors, he would not have on the instant been put there? The value of a fair-hitting fair-fielding second baseman over a mediocre hitting first baseman is huge. However stupid we may or may not think the organization is, that one would assuredly not have escaped their attention were it remotely realistic. Pill is just a soldier who has been told to go up and over the hilltop because someone has to do it.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
I get that. But players change positions for a variety of reasons. And sometimes, a change doesn’t occur to an organization, not because of a players ability or lack of, but because guys get pigeon-holed. The fact that nobody in the org. THOUGHT to try him at 2B doesn’t preclude him from being competent there. And we can’t presume to know that nobody in the org. entertained the idea, let alone had a “gleam of a hint of a wisp of an idea”.
And isn’t it worth a shot, given another dire circumstance for the org., to try it?
That’s my only point…that I would like to see it attempted before deciding that options mentioned in the poll like Tejada, Burriss, Fontenot, and Hall.
So it fails, and myself and whoever in the FO proposes it or puts it into action are idiots…no big whoop. We know what we are getting in all of the other situations, this one could be our 2011 lightning in a bottle. NOT LIKELY, but I’d like to try.
Fathaigh go mbuaimid!
Proud adoptive Father of Joe Panik. Stolen 6/11/11.
Job 1:14-15
seems like an obvious answer
When Fontenot is healthy is has to be him. He’s really not much worse than Mole offensively or defensively. His R/L splits are pretty extreme but he hasn’t had regular playing time much and I think he’s looked fine vs. lefties since he’s been here. I expect with regular playing time his splits would even out a bit. I’m fine with Hall as the starter at 2B until Fontenot is back and then moving Hall to a backup 2B/SS role. Hopefully Sanchez is back soon after the all-star break and nobody else is broken by then so the team can then part ways with Tejada using Fontenot as the primary backup 2B/SS and Hall in a super utility role.
Thing A
"Correlation between inability to use the reply button and general crappiness of analysis: pretty high." -Sleepy Freud
I don’t see an ‘assume the fetal position’ option.
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Jun 12, 2011 10:43 AM PDT reply actions
Fontenot gets the slight edge
But there’s a good case to be made for Burriss. It’s hard to imagine he’d be comparatively bad looking at the rest of the offensive options, and it’d be nice to not make the same mistakes we did with Winn/Schierholtz and Durham/Frandsen.
OTOH, Fontenot is a better hitter, a better defender, and WIN NOW supersedes giving playing time to guys like Burriss, who might hit (which would be great) but might not (which would be pretty awful) and it’s not worth the risk.
Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)
I have hard time making any case for Burriss. He doesn’t seem to be particularly good at anything besides running very fast.
Ask me about my blog.
Though, he did draw his first walk of the season last night. Hooray 1.7% walk-rate!
Ask me about my blog.
And he made that one play! And then that other one play!
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
This
He also got that one hit that one time.
I still believe in Santa Clause and Bowkermania!
Proud adoptive parent of Brett Bochy, he's my boy now Bruce!
by Giant Torture on Jun 13, 2011 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions
You must be the only one.
The rest of us are still waiting to see it.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
Trade for Chase Utley
but only after you get Hanley Ramirez and Jose Reyes, just to sit one on the bench.
Orlando Cabrera
Just got benched in Cleveland, could be had for cheap.
I still believe in Santa Clause and Bowkermania!
Proud adoptive parent of Brett Bochy, he's my boy now Bruce!
I’m really liking Cleveland’s future if they can get their hands on something resembling pitching. That AAA team is very very good and has a lot of interesting potentially productive pieces (including the one who just came up to the majors this week).
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
Me too
Cleveland is an interesting team, and would seem to be a good trade partner for the Giants given their need for pitching. I really think the Giants best bet with Zito coming back is to trade a starting pitcher, most likely Sanchez or Vogelsong, given that Zito is probably untradeable even if they eat a bunch of his contract. It’s a gamble that Zito will be able to be an above average 5th starter and somewhat replace the production from the departed player, but given their offense it’s worth it. Even, looking at next year, it’s still a pretty dreadful offense that will struggle to be league average so someone other than a rental would be best.
I still believe in Santa Clause and Bowkermania!
Proud adoptive parent of Brett Bochy, he's my boy now Bruce!
by Giant Torture on Jun 13, 2011 8:48 AM PDT up reply actions
Who, specifically, would you target in the Cleveland organization, as compensation for Sanchez (you can have Vogelsong when you pry him from my cold, dead fingers)?
What can (Gary) Brown do for you?
I would trade for Michael Brantley straight up, but I could also see a package that included Choo and one of the perpetually disabled like Sizemore or prospects.
I still believe in Santa Clause and Bowkermania!
Proud adoptive parent of Brett Bochy, he's my boy now Bruce!
by Giant Torture on Jun 13, 2011 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions
Random rosterbatory trade target: Adam Kennedy. Good glove, maybe a decent bat — he’s having a good year, anyway. Seattle needs to make room for that cokehead they have in AAA.
Cokehead
Don’t know if he’s going to stick at 2B. I’ve heard there’s enough clank in the glove that he could be moving to LF. Still that drunk Kennedy may not be a bad option for the right price.
I still believe in Santa Clause and Bowkermania!
Proud adoptive parent of Brett Bochy, he's my boy now Bruce!
by Giant Torture on Jun 13, 2011 8:49 AM PDT up reply actions
I like that
How bout we go after Olivo while we are at it.
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