Should The Giants Trade For Jose Reyes?
by Grant Brisbee on May 4, 2011 12:38 PM PDT
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No.
Well, maybe. But probably no.
Told you a storm was a-brewin'. It took a Mychael Urban piece to ignite the kindling, and soon there were posts on ESPN New York, tweets from all corners of the baseball world, and MLB Trade Rumors lit a beacon in the sky in the shape of a transaction. It's such a perfect match. The Mets want to shed salary. They have a pending free agent. The Giants have a void at shortstop, and an idea that they're going to contend.
I like Reyes. He has the reputation of being injury-prone because of 2009 and about 30 games last year, but he seems healthy now. As much as I want Brandon Crawford and Ehire Adrianza to succeed, I'd give about a 15% chance that either one is ever as good as Jack Wilson's typical season. So if there were ever a free agent for the Giants to go nuts for, it'd be Reyes. He fills a current need where there just aren't a lot of internal or external options.
But he's going to test the free-agent market. He'd be a fool not to. He's the only shortstop of note, with the consolation prize being a creaky Jimmy Rollins. When the Giants were able to re-sign Freddy Sanchez, a lot of that had to do with a) he had an above-market option that the Giants weren't going to pick up, and b) him being Freddy Sanchez, who wasn't exactly going to have teams lining up at his door as if he were perspiring funky cold medina.
Reyes is a rental. Maybe he comes to San Francisco, hits 32 triples, falls in love with Aquarius Records, and decides to stick around. But the Giants have to assume he won't. Consider him a rental unless the Giants are able to work out an extension with him before a trade, which they won't.
So here's the thing: I'm kind of done with rentals for a while. There was a point when I was all about them. Trade the future for a guy, cross your fingers, and hope he goes nuts in the playoffs. Or, in the case of Cody Ross, don't trade anything for the guy, and watch him do the same thing. But for a while, my philosophy was that San Francisco needed a trophy and a parade, and I'd trade anyone who wasn't Lincecum, Cain, or Posey to get it.
Now? Nah. I'm not feeling the urgency. That isn't to say that the Giants should coast for a while, satisfied with 2010 for a decade or six, but the risk/reward ledger is different. The risk is damage to long-term success for a possible reward of short-term success. I'm more interested in a dynasty, or the closest store-brand equivalent. The throw-prospects-away-for-Ryan-Garko-to-hope-for-a-fluke-postseason-run philosophy? It worked, just with different names. Let's move on to someone else.
This is all assuming that the Mets are going to want a ton of value for Reyes, which they should, and that he's even available, which he might not be. If the Mets are willing to dump him for a couple of prospects in the middle of the top ten, well, sure. That'd balance that risk/reward ledger right out. That's not going to happen.
No Zack Wheeler for a rental. People even thinking about Belt should be tied down with belts and beaten with belts until they beg for the torture and quasi-irony to end. I like Reyes, but things just aren't going to work out. It's not him...it's us.
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Giants 2010 in review: One Jerry Garcia bobblehead, one world championship. Questions?
Sounds like a plan
Didn’t the Mets want him at some point?
YOU SAY REY-NO
I SAY RE-YES*
* not an actual endorsement of trade.
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
by satyricrash on May 4, 2011 12:40 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Then Reyes 4 Fielder
FOOLPROOF!
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on May 4, 2011 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes, he’s a rental. But rentals are useful. You can drive them around for the time that you have them, and rentals can get you places – your hotel, the airport, the playoffs. Ok, so that last one kinda broke the metaphor, but you get my point.
Zack Wheeler is a good prospect, but he’s never pitched above A ball. Jose Reyes could very easily be the difference between the playoffs and not the playoffs.
Gigante. Campeón. Pumpkin. Andrés Torres.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
I’m in this line.
There's a First for Everything:
Edgar Renteria, The First World Series MVP in Giants History.
Yeah, me too.
Foppert, Williams, Ainsworth, Alderson, hell, even Lowry. The list goes on. But there are so few decent SS right now, having one seems a distinct advantage, even in the short term.
"He's a better manager than you guys." -Matt Cain
I trust Sabean emphatically on judging pitching prospects
FAs on the other hand
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Brian Lawrence
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
Most of those guys were picked in the lower half of the first round, and you should also consider Lincecum, Cain, Bumgarner, and Aardsma, “hell, even Lowry.”
"That’s the sort of pitch that Lincecum throws several times a game — the sort of pitch that made Satchel Paige say: 'I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain’t been seen by this generation.' Lincecum threw 10 or 15 generation pitches on Thursday." -Joe Posnanski
Et tu, Ribe?
Aardsma isn't exactly the best example for your case
but Sabean has a really really really good track record when trading pitchers.
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
Aardsma failed for like 3 years before it worked out in Seatle.
Brandon Crawford: Your SF Giants 2012 Opening Day starting SS?
he's been worth 2 WAR over his career
that’s the expected production for a pick in the 20s, aka what we’d save from trading for Reyes, re-signing him and not signing a type-A SS. Or half of what we’d get if Reyes walked.
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
Seriously??
have you already forgotten Nathan, Liriano & Bonser for AJ Asshat?
Really?
You really need to look at all of the pitchers the Giants have traded away versus the ones they kept.
Nathan is probably the biggest fish that got away and he was a closer.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Brian Lawrence
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
we have one who's better than Nathan
forgiveness is in order
These are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others. -Groucho Marx
Yeah
Who knows how the Giants would have done in 2010 if Nathan were the closer? Or if Nathan still got hurt, and a less experienced Wilson had the job.
"The two worst things in football are: 1) They think that a 30-year old professional athlete has to be locked up in a hotel room, with a curfew, the night before a qame; and 2) They're right."
- Cowboy safety Cliff Harris
that's the ONLY bad trade he's made with MiL pitching.
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
Scott Barnes for Ryan Garko was a stupid trade, even if Barnes never makes the majors.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on May 4, 2011 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions
in what possible way is that true?
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
Potential. Look at Barnes’s numbers. Yes, he was hit-unlucky in AA, but you’re talking about a LHP whose worst milb K/9 year was 8.2, without a very high BB rate.
The main reason is that Garko was useless, and was never good to begin with.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on May 4, 2011 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh, and Barnes is still only in his age-23 season and is in AAA. He’s not so different than Surkamp.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on May 4, 2011 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions
well, yeah
when he actually starts providing surplus value for someone, we can criticize sabes for it.
’till then, however, Barnes has done literally nothing at the major league level.
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
It could very easily end up being a terrible trade. It’s not there yet though.
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
If he never makes the majors then the trade is like it never happened.
Brandon Crawford: Your SF Giants 2012 Opening Day starting SS?
yeah
there is no way you can hold a trade of a guy who NEVER makes the majors against Sabes.
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
I guess the only argument could be that we should have gotten a better player for Barnes.
Brandon Crawford: Your SF Giants 2012 Opening Day starting SS?
without being a ML GM though
you don’t know what the values of prospects are. The best we have is a crude guess.
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
I thought no meant no...no?
Pablo's not fat. He's just got body.
by LeMasterBlaster on May 4, 2011 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Fun Fact
At some point in their careers, almost all pitchers hadn’t pitched above A ball.
Zack Wheeler projects to be a lot better than most of them.
"That’s the sort of pitch that Lincecum throws several times a game — the sort of pitch that made Satchel Paige say: 'I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain’t been seen by this generation.' Lincecum threw 10 or 15 generation pitches on Thursday." -Joe Posnanski
Et tu, Ribe?
by Solidarity on May 4, 2011 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
That fact is true
But 90% of pitchers (Note: this number is made up) who pitch in A-ball never amount to anything.
Gigante. Campeón. Pumpkin. Andrés Torres.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
Most of them aren’t sixth overall picks drafted out of high school.
TINSTAAPP, but those guys who pitch in the major leagues and succeed come from somewhere, and it’s not the stork.
"That’s the sort of pitch that Lincecum throws several times a game — the sort of pitch that made Satchel Paige say: 'I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain’t been seen by this generation.' Lincecum threw 10 or 15 generation pitches on Thursday." -Joe Posnanski
Et tu, Ribe?
Why? Mark Teixiera’s probably the best 3 month rental player traded in the last decade and all he fetched was the rotting corpse of Casey Kotchman. It’s hard to see what exactly the market for him is and the Mets financial situation compromises their ability to get to uppity. What they might ask for and what they’ll settle for don’t need to be the same thing. For Carlos Beltran it was a moshup of John Buck and Mark Teahan plus a couple months of Octavio Dotel.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
Yeah, I kind of agree with this. It will not be John Bowker and Joey Martinez cheap, but I’d be shocked if it takes a “King’s Ransom” of players.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
Justin Smoak and a collection of okay prospects
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
Smoak was one of the highest ranked prospects in baseball
But mostly I was objecting to the idea that Teixiera was the best 3 month rental player traded in the last decade.
Gigante. Campeón. Pumpkin. Andrés Torres.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
Wheeler isn't ranked quite as highly as Smoak
But still pretty darn high.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
He’s not really my type.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
Yeah I wouldn’t be able to catch up with him.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
Well, that exchange took a turn for the weird.
"Lee pitches...Renteria hits a high drive, deep left-center field, David Murphy going back, he's on the warning track—it is...go-one!"
Forget it, Jake. It’s MCC.
LIVE EDT
Tape-delayed for the West Coast
by TheLetter2 on May 4, 2011 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'll take Robert Towne for the Rec.
"That's no moon... That's a San Francisco Giants World Series trophy."
-Obi-Wan Kenobi
by Uribe nee Gonzalez on May 4, 2011 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions
He’ll be eligible in time for the deadline, though, right?
Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.
I forget if it’s a year after he was signed or a year after he was drafted.
Brandon Crawford: Your SF Giants 2012 Opening Day starting SS?
Also, I should add
that I find that rule to be incredibly stupid and MLB should allow draft picks to be traded
So make him the PTBNL.
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
In a deal like this, where they know who the PTBNL is, do they tell the player?
Brandon Crawford: Your SF Giants 2012 Opening Day starting SS?
I think he'd make the most sense
but because Baseball doesn’t allow trades of minor leaguers unless they’ve spent 1 calendar year in the org, we can’t
IF an extension could be worked out
Make Crawford your second player to go with Wheeler. He’d be blocked by your newly acquired SS
Lee kinda scuffled with the Rangers, frankly. He pitched five more innings with them than he did with the Mariners, but was worth nearly half as much over that span. Instead of a 6 WAR player, they got a 3 WAR player. He might have pushed them to the World Series, but Teixeira was worth more than twice that.
"That’s the sort of pitch that Lincecum throws several times a game — the sort of pitch that made Satchel Paige say: 'I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain’t been seen by this generation.' Lincecum threw 10 or 15 generation pitches on Thursday." -Joe Posnanski
Et tu, Ribe?
Cliff Lee's ERA+ as a Ranger?
109.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
Back spasms!
They’re like Texas vapors.
"That’s the sort of pitch that Lincecum throws several times a game — the sort of pitch that made Satchel Paige say: 'I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain’t been seen by this generation.' Lincecum threw 10 or 15 generation pitches on Thursday." -Joe Posnanski
Et tu, Ribe?
But the Ranger won the WS so it was all worth it
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Brian Lawrence
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
I'd say Lee was more valuable than Tex at the time of the trade
but not by a ton, they were pretty even
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
Lee was a better player, and got traded earlier. But the results of the two trades are a no-contest.
I’ve been reading the discussion as being about the latter point, which appears to be a mistake on my part.
"That’s the sort of pitch that Lincecum throws several times a game — the sort of pitch that made Satchel Paige say: 'I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain’t been seen by this generation.' Lincecum threw 10 or 15 generation pitches on Thursday." -Joe Posnanski
Et tu, Ribe?
Casey Kotchman wasn't a rotting corpse at the time of the trade.
And he was already playing at the major league level.
Teixiera
Mark Teixiera’s probably the best 3 month rental player traded in the last decade and all he fetched was the rotting corpse of Casey Kotchman
Was traded from Texas to ATL for: Beau Jones (minors), Elvis Andrus, Neftali Feliz, Matt Harrison and Jarrod Saltalamacchia.
Charlie Hayes ate my homework
by glenallen hill's waterpipe on May 4, 2011 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions
wasn't a rental.
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
right
but the 2nd time, he didn’t fetch Jones, Andrus, Feliz, Harrison and Saltalamacchia.
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
I think that’s the original poster’s point
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Brian Lawrence
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
I'm confused
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
k
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
true....
but ATL traded all those pieces for…..589 Tex ABs…and Kotchman’s corpse.
lesson: Never trade a Venezuelan named “Elvis.”
Never.
Charlie Hayes ate my homework
by glenallen hill's waterpipe on May 4, 2011 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Also
On Tuesday, the Angels made the kind of deadline blockbuster they’re often accused of never making when they traded first baseman Casey Kotchman and pitching prospect Stephen Marek to Atlanta for the right to run Teixeira out there as their first baseman for the next two months.
I think he was referring to the
Angels/Braves trade
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Brian Lawrence
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
that's a pretty good haul
One All-Star, a ROY, Boston’s starting catcher, and a mediocre starting pitcher who helped me win last week in pokemonz baseball.
These are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others. -Groucho Marx
You are right
It would take more than Wheeler.
If not, however, I’d do the deal in a second. The Giants have a window of 2 or 3 years (the time in which they have control of both Cain and Lincecum) . It is unlikely, imo, that they will be able keep both Lincecum and Cain when they are eleigable to hit free agency. I hope I’m wrong on that, but I just think the cost will be higher than they are williing to go.
Given that they have 4 solid to spectacular relatively young starters, Wheeler becomes expendable. They trade from strength to fill a glaring weakness – albeit on a short term.
But I highly doubt the Mets would go even up. Too big a risk that Wheeler breaks down – as so often happens to low minor leauge pitchers. The questin is: what else would it take.
Giants can keep both Timmy and Cain without much effort.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Brian Lawrence
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
This.
I was worried about, but now I’m not. I think ownership wants both of them for the long-term and probably won’t fuck around in negotiations. If the Giants will overpay bad players, then surely they must be willing to overpay their own good players… right?
Timmy will just take Zito’s salary slot plus a $5-7 million of his current slot ($25-27 million)
Cain will just take his 2012 contract plus $3-5 million from Timmy’s current slot ($18-20 million)
That would still leave about $2-6 million for the Giants to sign a fourth/fifth starter
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Brian Lawrence
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
I wouldn't pay Cain $20M
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
Cain is going to make $15.3 million in 2013. It’s probably take $18 million to sign him in 2014
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Brian Lawrence
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
I MIGHT do 18
but 17 is really my upper limit.
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
17 is also market value
if some team wants to go over market and give him 20, I’d be sad to see him go, but I wouldn’t overpay just for sentimental reasons.
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
Lilly is getting $33 million over 3 years and he is 35. I think $18-20 would be market for Cain
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Brian Lawrence
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
Cain’s been consistently “worth” $16M for the last 4 years. He’s about a 3.7 WAR player. If the WAR FA value stays consistent with what it was this year, he’ll be worth $17-18.
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
I think Cain likes it here. Don’t think he has any intention of going anywhere else.
Esp if it’s over $5MM in the final numbers. SF brought him a ring (which of course he had a huge part in). He’s been looking at schools for his kids. He’s bought a house near the city.
I don’t think he’s going anywhere. And Timmeh, well, let’s just say the Giants won’t let him go. He’s the face of the team. We will pay $25MM for him, and we’ll like it.
We will lose one of Sanchez or Wilson. Willy already makes $8.5MM, so $10MM is about what you’d expect from FA. Given Sanchez is a Boras client, I’d consider trading him for cheap talent
The only people for me are the mad ones. The ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars. ~Inspire Me
Cain is definitely a Giant for life unless we severely insult/upset him.
Timmy…who knows.
Back on the market.
by positiveuphemism on May 4, 2011 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Thik about the places that Timmy could truly fit on, payroll-wise and a place that isn’t hot.
The only people for me are the mad ones. The ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars. ~Inspire Me
Seattle? perhaps, not likely though.
that’s about it
The only people for me are the mad ones. The ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars. ~Inspire Me
Seattle is his home. He may choose to go there.
Then of course NY/Boston. It’s best that we don’t let him hit free agency. I wouldn’t be surprised to see NY offer him 40 million or something crazy like that.
Back on the market.
by positiveuphemism on May 4, 2011 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Not sure if there's any truth to this,
But he doesn’t seem like a Yankee type of player.
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way. - SLC
He’s have to cut his hair.
"That’s the sort of pitch that Lincecum throws several times a game — the sort of pitch that made Satchel Paige say: 'I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain’t been seen by this generation.' Lincecum threw 10 or 15 generation pitches on Thursday." -Joe Posnanski
Et tu, Ribe?
And change his personality.
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way. - SLC
I’m pretty sure Timmy would stay in SF if the money is close.
NYY is not offering $40 million to Timmy. They couldn’t even match the Phillies’ bid to Lee.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Brian Lawrence
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
I thought the Yankees offered more than the Phillies for Lee
Thing A
"Correlation between inability to use the reply button and general crappiness of analysis: pretty high." -Sleepy Freud
They did offer more, but it was a lot closer than the initial reports said.
Brandon Crawford: Your SF Giants 2012 Opening Day starting SS?
I think the correct answer is "kind of."
The Yankees offered a larger overall contract, but the average yearly value of the Phillies’ offer is higher, if memory serves.
by DodgerFanInPackerLand on May 4, 2011 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Yankees: 7 years $150 million
Phillies: 5 years $120 million.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Brian Lawrence
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
Wasn't there an option for the 6th year?
Brandon Crawford: Your SF Giants 2012 Opening Day starting SS?
More money/years, less AAV.
"That’s the sort of pitch that Lincecum throws several times a game — the sort of pitch that made Satchel Paige say: 'I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain’t been seen by this generation.' Lincecum threw 10 or 15 generation pitches on Thursday." -Joe Posnanski
Et tu, Ribe?
I could definitely see him going to Seattle; it’s not like their payroll is tiny. It’s also the one place he could go that really wouldn’t upset me.
"Lee pitches...Renteria hits a high drive, deep left-center field, David Murphy going back, he's on the warning track—it is...go-one!"
When do they have them locked up through?
Is it Tim through 13 and Cain through 12??
yes
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
Timmy is not eligible for FA until 2014.
Matt is locked up through 2012
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Brian Lawrence
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
yes.
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
also in this line
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
we went over this yesterday
Wheeler’s estimated value – 15-20M
Reyes’ estimated value over contract – 5-7M
Estimated value of 2 comp picks – 10M
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
Why is Wheeler’s estimated value only 15-20M? I’ve heard projections that he could be a #1 starter, if not a #3 starter.
It’s the assumption that #30~ish pitching prospects are worth 15-20 M
Brandon Crawford: Your SF Giants 2012 Opening Day starting SS?
this
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
Seriously
the only glaring hole on the team is SS. You address that need, the sky is the limit. I would have ZERO problem if the trade was wheeler/reyes straight up.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, WORLD CHAMPION SAN FRANCISCO GIANT
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
11/1/10
I’m not liking it, so I’m sure it’ll happen.
FtF: Welcome to Opposite Season!
McC: Don't get it? Try the McWiki wiki.
How could he not love Aquarius? He’s probably a mail order customer and owns every Sunn O))) recording.
Giants 2010 in review: One Jerry Garcia bobblehead, one world championship. Questions?
We don't even know if WE'RE contenders this season.
Why become buyers and end up in the cellar? Wait until July at least.
I'm still waiting for John Johnstone to come off the DL.
by yankeessuck8991 on May 4, 2011 12:45 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
we're much more likely to be contenders
with Reyes than with Tejada.
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
Real fact
Ryan Garko is now a Samsung Lion.
Gigante. Campeón. Pumpkin. Andrés Torres.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
I don't mean to offend, but
Why? He never did much of anything.
"That’s the sort of pitch that Lincecum throws several times a game — the sort of pitch that made Satchel Paige say: 'I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain’t been seen by this generation.' Lincecum threw 10 or 15 generation pitches on Thursday." -Joe Posnanski
Et tu, Ribe?
I keep forgetting he was on the team at all
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
I didn’t like Garko the player. I liked Garko the guy. He was always a great interview on the Jim Rome Show.
Fair. Much as I hate Jim Rome.
"That’s the sort of pitch that Lincecum throws several times a game — the sort of pitch that made Satchel Paige say: 'I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain’t been seen by this generation.' Lincecum threw 10 or 15 generation pitches on Thursday." -Joe Posnanski
Et tu, Ribe?
I always felt bad for him
Hey, you’re a starting first basemen entering a contract year, come sit on our bench for the last few months of the season so everyone forgets who you are by the time people are signing free agents.
by GuyWhiteyCorngood on May 4, 2011 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions
He sat on the bench because he was bad.
"That’s the sort of pitch that Lincecum throws several times a game — the sort of pitch that made Satchel Paige say: 'I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain’t been seen by this generation.' Lincecum threw 10 or 15 generation pitches on Thursday." -Joe Posnanski
Et tu, Ribe?
And, if reports are true, was averse to trying.
Currently stifling the bacon, the world.
by howtheyscored on May 4, 2011 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Thanks to twitter, I wasn't chopped.
"For science. You monster."
Repost due to being chopped
NEW YORK (AP)—Major League Baseball believes the Los Angeles Dodgers do not have enough money to make their end of May payroll, a person familiar with the team’s finances told The Associated Press.
The person spoke Wednesday on condition of anonymity because MLB’s investigation of the team’s finances under owner Frank McCourt is ongoing. The Los Angeles Times first reported that the Dodgers lacked the cash to make their May 31 payroll.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Brian Lawrence
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
maybe we can get Juan Uribe back.
"There was no torture in the end. Only rapture." - Mike Krukow
2010 Giants: World Series Champs
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on May 4, 2011 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions
You want Uribe back ribe back ribe back ribe back?
Currently stifling the bacon, the world.
by howtheyscored on May 4, 2011 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions 6 recs
BBQ sauze.
Currently stifling the bacon, the world.
by howtheyscored on May 4, 2011 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Too fast for my own good.
Currently stifling the bacon, the world.
by howtheyscored on May 4, 2011 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions
well done.
"There was no torture in the end. Only rapture." - Mike Krukow
2010 Giants: World Series Champs
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on May 4, 2011 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions
that's a terrible joke
/rec’d
May 29, 2010: Steven Revetria becomes Giants General Manager. The rest is history.
"118 elements, and still no stanfurdium"- carp, paraphrased
Bandwagons are fun- that's why people get on them in the first place.
by natteringnabob on May 4, 2011 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions
HOly god that is awful
Rec’d
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
Kudos, You are a sick, sick man, but you are very good at it -- wcw
mccourt was on la radio yesterday
and spent a full half hour lying about everything
and he wanted people to feel sorry for him, because now he has to live in a luxury suite in a local hotel
one of his sons is a friend of a friend
And on the one hand I feel kinda sorry for him because it must be a terrible thing to have your parents drag one another’s names through the mud for all to see and watch all your hopes and dreams go up in smoke.
On the other hand, this kid was being paid $300,000 a year to do absolutely nothing.
On a third hand, screw the Dodgers.
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on May 4, 2011 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions
What if we offered them Tejada, DeRosa and Cody Ross?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
I might even throw in Whiteside to sweeten the deal.
They might be Giants...but they are definitely WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS.
"And what was once torture for an entire city became a magical ride into an Orange October."
Dunno if this is chasm
If they want to shed Reyes’ salary, that means they want to shed salary for this year. So no Major League players.
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
Bob Howry's #1 (and only) fan!!!
The Merkin Valdez of McCovey Chronicles!!!!!!
What if the Giants threw in Zito?
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Brian Lawrence
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
and a really nice gift basket!
Everyone loves Ghirardelli chocolates!
May 29, 2010: Steven Revetria becomes Giants General Manager. The rest is history.
"118 elements, and still no stanfurdium"- carp, paraphrased
Bandwagons are fun- that's why people get on them in the first place.
by natteringnabob on May 4, 2011 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions
The kingdoms of Experience
In the precious wind they rot
While paupers change possessions
Each one wishing for what the other has got
And the princess and the prince
Discuss what’s real and what is not
It doesn’t matter inside the Gates of Eden
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
Is that the Guns and Roses song?
"That's no moon... That's a San Francisco Giants World Series trophy."
-Obi-Wan Kenobi
by Uribe nee Gonzalez on May 4, 2011 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions
oh, that’s Garden of Eden. I coulda sworn they were the same…
"That's no moon... That's a San Francisco Giants World Series trophy."
-Obi-Wan Kenobi
by Uribe nee Gonzalez on May 4, 2011 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions
at first I thought William Blake
but that last line doesn’t seem like his style.
Mark DeRosa, still existing.
Side note
Rollins is going to be my white whale this offseason. Sweet glove, hovers around average with the bat, has a little bit of pop and a little bit of vroom when he’s healthy. He’ll also be much cheaper than Reyes.
Gigante. Campeón. Pumpkin. Andrés Torres.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
Presented without comment
when he’s healthy
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Brian Lawrence
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
And if you're going to make it a policy to never sign anyone who's ever been hurt
You’re not going to get many of the players you need.
Gigante. Campeón. Pumpkin. Andrés Torres.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
We’ll have to see where he is at the end of the year. He’s been injured a lot lately and the numbers he put up from 09-10 are not inspiring.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
They're fine, though, from a shortstop who's playing plus defense, which Rollins always has.
And in both those seasons, he had BABIP’s a full 40 points off his career numbers. Some of that could be deterioration of skill, but some of it is back luck too.
Gigante. Campeón. Pumpkin. Andrés Torres.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
also old
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Brian Lawrence
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
If you don't want any players with injury histories or who are old
We are not going to have a shortstop next year.
Gigante. Campeón. Pumpkin. Andrés Torres.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
what if I don’t want an old player with a history of injuries?
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Brian Lawrence
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
There are no players matching that description who are available by trade or free agency
These are the 2012 free agent shortstops:
Yuniesky Betancourt (30) – $6MM club option with a $2MM buyout
Orlando Cabrera (37)
Jamey Carroll (37)
Ronny Cedeno (29) – club option
Craig Counsell (41)
Adam Everett (35)
Rafael Furcal (34) – $12MM club/vesting option
Alex Gonzalez (34)
Jerry Hairston Jr. (36)
J.J. Hardy (29)
Omar Infante (30)
Cesar Izturis (32)
John McDonald (37)
Augie Ojeda (37)
Nick Punto (34)
Edgar Renteria (35)
Jose Reyes (29)
Jimmy Rollins (33)
Ramon Santiago (32)
Marco Scutaro (36) – $6MM club option/$3MM player option with a $1.5MM buyout
Miguel Tejada (38)
Jack Wilson (34)
All of them will be over 30, except for a Reyes and Hardy. Reyes has missed significant time to injury over the past three years, and Hardy is hurt right now.
The player you want, young with no injury history, does not exist. And wherever they do exist, teams won’t trade them.
Gigante. Campeón. Pumpkin. Andrés Torres.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
I go with Hardy or Infantes
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Brian Lawrence
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
That's fine
But neither of them are as good as Rollins.
Gigante. Campeón. Pumpkin. Andrés Torres.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
I’m saving myself for Stephen Drew
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Brian Lawrence
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
I'd like to have a competant SS before 2013.
Gigante. Campeón. Pumpkin. Andrés Torres.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
You are a lawyer, he might be attracted to you.
"That's no moon... That's a San Francisco Giants World Series trophy."
-Obi-Wan Kenobi
by Uribe nee Gonzalez on May 4, 2011 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions
He said he doesn’t want old AND injury prone.
I think he’ll take just old or just injury prone, but not both.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
I thought that's what he said
But I went back and read carefully.
Gigante. Campeón. Pumpkin. Andrés Torres.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
what if I don’t want an old player with a history of injuries?
I’m interpreting this the way that I did.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
But again
If you want an old player with no history of injuries, they mostly suck, because they’re old.
If you want an young player with some history of injuries, you can have Jose Reyes. That’s it.
Gigante. Campeón. Pumpkin. Andrés Torres.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
Of course
That’s what we have right now.
by GuyWhiteyCorngood on May 4, 2011 1:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Alex Gonzalez, JJ Hardy, Marco Scutaro.
If we don’t get Reyes or Rollins. Hardy is still youngish, he could be enticed by a 3-4 year deal.
The only people for me are the mad ones. The ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars. ~Inspire Me
I don’t want to give Hardy a 3-4 year deal, 1+team option at the most.
Brandon Crawford: Your SF Giants 2012 Opening Day starting SS?
2 year deal until 2014 when the Giants offer tons of money to Stephen Drew
Buster, Belt, Panda, Drew
Timmy, Cain, Bumgarner
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Brian Lawrence
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
/salivates.
God, I love Stephen Drew. He is so awesome. Speed, power, average, arm, I mean dude is a legit 5 tool player.
The only people for me are the mad ones. The ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars. ~Inspire Me
He is an average hitter for average, and has never really swiped many bases.
"That’s the sort of pitch that Lincecum throws several times a game — the sort of pitch that made Satchel Paige say: 'I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain’t been seen by this generation.' Lincecum threw 10 or 15 generation pitches on Thursday." -Joe Posnanski
Et tu, Ribe?
he’s very well rounded for a premium position.
The only people for me are the mad ones. The ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars. ~Inspire Me
Right. Still not a five-tool player.
"That’s the sort of pitch that Lincecum throws several times a game — the sort of pitch that made Satchel Paige say: 'I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain’t been seen by this generation.' Lincecum threw 10 or 15 generation pitches on Thursday." -Joe Posnanski
Et tu, Ribe?
STOP BREAKING MY DREAMS OF STEPHEN DREW
The only people for me are the mad ones. The ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars. ~Inspire Me
Would you settle . . .
for two and a half tools?
How many tools does Burrell have at this point?
/steps aside for answer . . .
Is a girl.
by gallo del cielo on May 4, 2011 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions
PUNCHES NEXT PERSON WHO SPEAKS THROUGH WALL
The only people for me are the mad ones. The ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars. ~Inspire Me
Then I guess we should all take care not to speak through a wall.
I DON'T BELIEVE YOU (AGAIN)
I tweet (more often than I blarg).
icwudt
THAT’S IT
/PUNCHES CAN OF CORN INTO AND THROUGH THE WALL
The only people for me are the mad ones. The ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars. ~Inspire Me
I would like to have the amateur drafts from 1990-2004 back please.
"That's no moon... That's a San Francisco Giants World Series trophy."
-Obi-Wan Kenobi
by Uribe nee Gonzalez on May 4, 2011 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions
he put up about ~2 WAR total over the two seasons according to bbref
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
5 according to fangraphs
UZR likes his defense more than totalzone, I guess. Gotta pick one.
Gigante. Campeón. Pumpkin. Andrés Torres.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
2.5ish actually
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
the Giants will sign him to a minimum 4 year deal this offseason. maybe even 5 years.
"There was no torture in the end. Only rapture." - Mike Krukow
2010 Giants: World Series Champs
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on May 4, 2011 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions
don't forget
BAY AREA TIES!!!!
May 29, 2010: Steven Revetria becomes Giants General Manager. The rest is history.
"118 elements, and still no stanfurdium"- carp, paraphrased
Bandwagons are fun- that's why people get on them in the first place.
by natteringnabob on May 4, 2011 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions
but probably won't sign with the Sharks
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Brian Lawrence
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
He’d take a discount to wear white shoes.
/used car salesman’d
Charlie Hayes ate my homework
by glenallen hill's waterpipe on May 4, 2011 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions
I would only be ok with a couple year deal for him.
Ross on Halladay: "I’d tried everything against him…going the other way, taking pitches, trying to walk…and nothing worked. I’d never tried going up there and just trying to hit a home run off him."
My boy has mad hops
I rant on Twitter
you have any idea how much money he’s gonna want?
former MVP (lol), 32 already I believe…
The only people for me are the mad ones. The ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars. ~Inspire Me
When’s the last time there’s been a trade rumor where the Giants would get somebody (as opposed to get rid of somebody) that’s been popular around here?
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
Bob Howry's #1 (and only) fan!!!
The Merkin Valdez of McCovey Chronicles!!!!!!
there were a lot the last two years when the Giants were contenders
Jose Bautista, Freddy Sanchez, etc
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
All I can remember about Sanchez was RAGE! But I also have a bad memory.
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
Bob Howry's #1 (and only) fan!!!
The Merkin Valdez of McCovey Chronicles!!!!!!
It was rage because people liked Tim Alderson. Before the trade, we didn’t think we’d have to offer as much.
Brandon Crawford: Your SF Giants 2012 Opening Day starting SS?
Who did we allegedly offer for Bautista again?
There's a First for Everything:
Edgar Renteria, The First World Series MVP in Giants History.
probably Jonathan Sanchez
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
IIRC there was a rumor of a 3 way deal
We’d Joey Bats, the Jays would get Kelly Johnson, and the DBacks would get prospects
Also, Jose Bautista would help the San Francisco Giants.
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
Bob Howry's #1 (and only) fan!!!
The Merkin Valdez of McCovey Chronicles!!!!!!
I don't believe you.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
Boooo
I felt like I was the only guy on board the Bautista train. I kept saying that we should trade Jonathan for him, but no one wanted to!
Gigante. Campeón. Pumpkin. Andrés Torres.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
Yes, we know.
I think you’ve mentioned it every single time someone has brought up Bautista since then.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
I think you’ve mentioned it every single time someone has brought upBautistajust about anyone since then.
"That’s the sort of pitch that Lincecum throws several times a game — the sort of pitch that made Satchel Paige say: 'I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain’t been seen by this generation.' Lincecum threw 10 or 15 generation pitches on Thursday." -Joe Posnanski
Et tu, Ribe?
Wellemeyer in the playoffs.
Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.
Zito in the playoffs.
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
Bob Howry's #1 (and only) fan!!!
The Merkin Valdez of McCovey Chronicles!!!!!!
There’s no saying the Giants would have made the playoffs if they’d made that trade.
They certainly would have had a good chance, but I don’t think you can say for sure.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
Bautista right now.
And Jonathan, outside of one start in Atlanta, was bad in the playoffs anyway.
Gigante. Campeón. Pumpkin. Andrés Torres.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
He had a 4.05 ERA in the postseason.
Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.
Well that’s because he got taken out in the 3rd inning of game 6.
Brandon Crawford: Your SF Giants 2012 Opening Day starting SS?
Look, it’s really hard to justify making any changes given what actually happened. If we had gotten Bautista, maybe we don’t have Cody Ross, so maybe we get manhandled by Halladay.
I understand the logic to a point, but there’s no way that I am ever going to regret anything about last season.
Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.
Right, I wouldn’t do the deal after the fact, since we won.
Brandon Crawford: Your SF Giants 2012 Opening Day starting SS?
And Affeldt didn't cash his runs.
Gigante. Campeón. Pumpkin. Andrés Torres.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
DeJesus?
"That’s the sort of pitch that Lincecum throws several times a game — the sort of pitch that made Satchel Paige say: 'I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain’t been seen by this generation.' Lincecum threw 10 or 15 generation pitches on Thursday." -Joe Posnanski
Et tu, Ribe?
I wanted that guy!
Too bad about his thumb.
Gigante. Campeón. Pumpkin. Andrés Torres.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
Yeah, because it means we got Jose Guillen instead.
OTOH, then Ross probably wouldn’t have goon medieval on the NLCS, but we’d probably still have DeJesus now.
"That’s the sort of pitch that Lincecum throws several times a game — the sort of pitch that made Satchel Paige say: 'I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain’t been seen by this generation.' Lincecum threw 10 or 15 generation pitches on Thursday." -Joe Posnanski
Et tu, Ribe?
WHITE WHALE
HOLY GRAIL
These are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others. -Groucho Marx
WHEELER FOR BAUTISTA!!!!!
There's a First for Everything:
Edgar Renteria, The First World Series MVP in Giants History.
I would love Reyes on this team
but not in love with trading what’s left of a meager farm for him if he only sticks around this year.
Ross on Halladay: "I’d tried everything against him…going the other way, taking pitches, trying to walk…and nothing worked. I’d never tried going up there and just trying to hit a home run off him."
My boy has mad hops
I rant on Twitter
Bingo.
"That’s the sort of pitch that Lincecum throws several times a game — the sort of pitch that made Satchel Paige say: 'I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain’t been seen by this generation.' Lincecum threw 10 or 15 generation pitches on Thursday." -Joe Posnanski
Et tu, Ribe?
Yahtzee!
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Brian Lawrence
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
There is no way I am going to eat this toast.
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on May 4, 2011 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Have you seen all the stuff Pablo was wearing this year?
Gigante. Campeón. Pumpkin. Andrés Torres.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
Read testes. Had a moment.
Currently stifling the bacon, the world.
by howtheyscored on May 4, 2011 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions
My apartment building is pretty much ground zero for the Folsom Street Fair.
Charlie Hayes ate my homework
by glenallen hill's waterpipe on May 4, 2011 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions
A package of Neal, Surkamp, and Wheeler would be pretty darn reasonable.
"Career potential: situational lefty." Situation: Ragnarok, bases loaded, Odin at the plate. You know who's getting the call.
-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler
I guess we’d be going back to the 4-man rotation, then.
"That’s the sort of pitch that Lincecum throws several times a game — the sort of pitch that made Satchel Paige say: 'I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain’t been seen by this generation.' Lincecum threw 10 or 15 generation pitches on Thursday." -Joe Posnanski
Et tu, Ribe?
I was hoping to get a rise out of people, but it didn’t work as well as I’d hoped. I’d be willing to trade any one of those guys for Reyes, though. Tejada should not be anywhere near a baseball diamond.
"Career potential: situational lefty." Situation: Ragnarok, bases loaded, Odin at the plate. You know who's getting the call.
-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler
LIKE THESE DIAMONDS?
"That’s the sort of pitch that Lincecum throws several times a game — the sort of pitch that made Satchel Paige say: 'I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain’t been seen by this generation.' Lincecum threw 10 or 15 generation pitches on Thursday." -Joe Posnanski
Et tu, Ribe?
god, those things are so HAWT!!!
I’d trade my gf and child for one.
The only people for me are the mad ones. The ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars. ~Inspire Me
I've got two sellers who are going to inform us
when they’ve got their prototypes done. I’ll post pix and prices; look for them in another month or six weeks.
by mrs. owlcroft on May 4, 2011 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions
servicey!
Charlie Hayes ate my homework
by glenallen hill's waterpipe on May 4, 2011 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions
what are they looking like they’ll be made of? I would seriously pay $3000 for one that has real diamonds in it
The only people for me are the mad ones. The ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars. ~Inspire Me
Terrible idea
Those are the only players in our farm who could be respectable major leaguers before 2013. Surkamp and Wheeler are future starters and we need them to replace Zito and Sanchez. How would you replace those guys otherwise? Have 70M in FA spent on starting pitching? I don’t think we can afford that, especially if we are paying huge money for Reyes.
Neal is also key to freeing up the payroll. He can replace Ross in the outfield and save us 6M. That is if you believe he can start.
About time
I’ve been coming here all along for Billy Joel references.
by GuyWhiteyCorngood on May 4, 2011 1:07 PM PDT reply actions
Frankly, I'm surprised "A Minor Variation" hasn't been used here already.
by DodgerFanInPackerLand on May 4, 2011 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions
So are the Dodgers going to DFA everyone and bring up the minor league team?
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Brian Lawrence
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
You may be right
Can't spell "Colletti" without LOL.
by D4P on May 4, 2011 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions
I did Always a Woman MONTHS ago. Geez.
Currently stifling the bacon, the world.
by howtheyscored on May 4, 2011 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions
We should trade everybody bad for everybody good.
Does it work like that?
And then God created Saturn ... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
SaberCats Examiner | SB Nation Bay Area | Niners Nation | Twitter
I submitted to the unholy Brisbee.
And then God created Saturn ... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
SaberCats Examiner | SB Nation Bay Area | Niners Nation | Twitter
Who will lead the uprising?
"Career potential: situational lefty." Situation: Ragnarok, bases loaded, Odin at the plate. You know who's getting the call.
-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler
Apparently SBN likes real names
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Brian Lawrence
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
It was my choice, actually.
And then God created Saturn ... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
SaberCats Examiner | SB Nation Bay Area | Niners Nation | Twitter
but you're a ninja
ninjas never use their real names
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Brian Lawrence
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
Now I’m even more ninja-like. See, before, people expected me to do ninja things. Wouldn’t you know it, that took a lot of the surprise out of things … but now, they’re like “Oh look a regular guy, how ar— OH MY GOD IT’S A N—” and then they’re dead.
And then God created Saturn ... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
SaberCats Examiner | SB Nation Bay Area | Niners Nation | Twitter
i hear that same expression in the south a few years back
and it didn’t mean ninja.
Honorary parent of Duane Kuiper, beloved solar powered broadcaster and power hitting coach for the Giants.
Alex Lewis (Alex_Lewis)
"Career potential: situational lefty." Situation: Ragnarok, bases loaded, Odin at the plate. You know who's getting the call.
-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler
Florence T. Poindexter (howtheyscored)
Currently stifling the bacon, the world.
by howtheyscored on May 4, 2011 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Goofus McPenisbutter (Goofus)
Wise words by wcw: "Nobody cares about your Pokemon."
"There’s a new celebrity inside the organization, and it’s a three-foot inanimate object," - Larry Baer, my adopted son.
Harry Kok (Wei Long)
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
Kudos, You are a sick, sick man, but you are very good at it -- wcw
Oliver Klozoff (RDreamer)
These are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others. -Groucho Marx
I'll say it again.
Reyes has been worth 2 WAR over Tejada so far, and we are just over a month into the season. This isn’t like a normal rental where we get about .5 WAR over their replacement. Reyes could add 2 wins to our squad for the final 2 months of the season.
Add in the fact we’ll get 2 draft picks if he doesn’t sign, it’s worth a trade.
But, if the Giants are more than 4 games out at the deadline, maybe it’s not worth it.
Brandon Crawford: Your SF Giants 2012 Opening Day starting SS?
I don't understand
Why everyone in Baseball is so dogmatic about waiting till the trade deadline. Giving a hitter time to work things out is fine, but its obvious that Tejada is done in pro baseball – he has neither the glove nor the bat to provide any value. Why not make the move now and get almost a full season of Reyes instead of waiting, most likely giving up the same value anyway and getting him for a third of the season.
Proud adoptee of Dick Tidrow the mastermind behind Tim Lincecum, Matt Cain, Buster Posey and many more. Also known as "The Reason".
well this simply isn't likely to be true
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
It’s not that the Giants wouldn’t want to do this, it’s that the Mets don’t. They’d like to wait as long as possible to get the most suitors/best offers.
Brandon Crawford: Your SF Giants 2012 Opening Day starting SS?
it doesn't work that way for rentals though
their value declines pretty quickly as the deadline approaches.
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
But the Mets aren’t going to trade him today with out fielding other options.
Brandon Crawford: Your SF Giants 2012 Opening Day starting SS?
Supply and Demand
Economics 101
"That's no moon... That's a San Francisco Giants World Series trophy."
-Obi-Wan Kenobi
by Uribe nee Gonzalez on May 4, 2011 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions
But, if the Giants are more than 4 games out at the deadline, maybe it’s not worth it.
Now imagine if you had said that last season
The only people for me are the mad ones. The ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars. ~Inspire Me
The Giants were 2 up in the wild card at the deadline last year.
Brandon Crawford: Your SF Giants 2012 Opening Day starting SS?
In fact, they had the most wins of any NL team at the deadline.
Brandon Crawford: Your SF Giants 2012 Opening Day starting SS?
They were more than 4 out, though, right?
We’re talking division here. Cannot shoot for WC, too many teams vie for that.
The only people for me are the mad ones. The ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars. ~Inspire Me
No, they were 1.5 games behind the Pads.
Brandon Crawford: Your SF Giants 2012 Opening Day starting SS?
let me make a better point.
instead of 4 out at the deadline being the end of the season, how about 4 out going into September?
Now that’s brutal, but still not the end of the season.
The only people for me are the mad ones. The ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars. ~Inspire Me
We aren't going to be able to trade for Reyes in September.
Brandon Crawford: Your SF Giants 2012 Opening Day starting SS?
are you missing my point entirely, or just trying to annoy the hell outta me?
The only people for me are the mad ones. The ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars. ~Inspire Me
What is your point? That 4 games out still justifies trading your best prospect for, at best, 2 wins?
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way. - SLC
MY POINT IS THAT 4 GAMES OUT DOESNT MEAN THE SEASON IS OVER, EVEN IN SEPT.
I was alluding far, far more to the greatness of 2010 than I was about anything Reyes-related.
The only people for me are the mad ones. The ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars. ~Inspire Me
Yeah
2010 was awesome.
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way. - SLC
lol. you guys were burning me with “no, they were 1.5 out” or this or that, and all I was looking for was:
ICWYDT!! Giants rule!!!
The only people for me are the mad ones. The ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars. ~Inspire Me
4 games out doesn’t mean the season is over, that’s just my break even point for saying Wheeler is worth trading away to get Reyes.
Brandon Crawford: Your SF Giants 2012 Opening Day starting SS?
I understand
The no rental philosophy, but Reyes is guaranteed to be a Type A free agent right? And that means that if he DOES end up being a rental, and goes to some other team, then we get two picks for the draft. That doesn’t mean we should be giving them Belt, but those two picks should help to compensate for the loss of whatever prospects we give up.
Proud adoptee of Dick Tidrow the mastermind behind Tim Lincecum, Matt Cain, Buster Posey and many more. Also known as "The Reason".
I think two wins is a conservative estimate.
"Career potential: situational lefty." Situation: Ragnarok, bases loaded, Odin at the plate. You know who's getting the call.
-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler
Hmmm.
Meant for the above comment.
"Career potential: situational lefty." Situation: Ragnarok, bases loaded, Odin at the plate. You know who's getting the call.
-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler
I figured
and I also concur.
Proud adoptee of Dick Tidrow the mastermind behind Tim Lincecum, Matt Cain, Buster Posey and many more. Also known as "The Reason".
I'm calling it right now
I’m adopting Jose Reyes
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Brian Lawrence
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
Has anyone adopted Surkamp?
Someone should. Dude is a monster.
Gigante. Campeón. Pumpkin. Andrés Torres.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
LOL Future Met
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Brian Lawrence
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
Surkamp for Reyes would be fine by me.
Gigante. Campeón. Pumpkin. Andrés Torres.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
They can have any other minor-leauger that’s not Belt or Wheeler.
Giants 2010 in review: One Jerry Garcia bobblehead, one world championship. Questions?
Gah, please don’t trade Culberson. It just means we’ll have no SS and no 2B.
"That’s the sort of pitch that Lincecum throws several times a game — the sort of pitch that made Satchel Paige say: 'I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain’t been seen by this generation.' Lincecum threw 10 or 15 generation pitches on Thursday." -Joe Posnanski
Et tu, Ribe?
Charlie Culberson
not very good.
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
I don’t really know that there’s any evidence whatsoever to substantiate this, other than the fact that he’s starting AA at age 22.
"That’s the sort of pitch that Lincecum throws several times a game — the sort of pitch that made Satchel Paige say: 'I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain’t been seen by this generation.' Lincecum threw 10 or 15 generation pitches on Thursday." -Joe Posnanski
Et tu, Ribe?
He might be able to hit enough for 2B. The worry seems to be more about a clanktastic mitt.
by wcw on May 4, 2011 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions
right, I'd say his offensive upside
based on his MiL numbers, is average 2B. With bad D, that’s not very good.
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
I think you’re a little unnecessarily pessimistic on both sides of the ball.
"That’s the sort of pitch that Lincecum throws several times a game — the sort of pitch that made Satchel Paige say: 'I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain’t been seen by this generation.' Lincecum threw 10 or 15 generation pitches on Thursday." -Joe Posnanski
Et tu, Ribe?
what makes you think that?
his 109 wRC+ in A+ after posting 69 and 80 for 2 years in A?
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
I’m trusting the FO on this one. It’s pretty obvious he’s not done developing yet.
"That’s the sort of pitch that Lincecum throws several times a game — the sort of pitch that made Satchel Paige say: 'I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain’t been seen by this generation.' Lincecum threw 10 or 15 generation pitches on Thursday." -Joe Posnanski
Et tu, Ribe?
Scouts seemed to really like him after the AFL.
Brandon Crawford: Your SF Giants 2012 Opening Day starting SS?
I hope they're right
but he hasn’t exactly been setting AA on fire either
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
In the 15 games or whatever it is that he’s played at that level.
"That’s the sort of pitch that Lincecum throws several times a game — the sort of pitch that made Satchel Paige say: 'I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain’t been seen by this generation.' Lincecum threw 10 or 15 generation pitches on Thursday." -Joe Posnanski
Et tu, Ribe?
well, yeah
which is why i didn’t include them above. My point is, he’s never excelled at any level, and his D has reportedly been bad at every level.
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
Wow
So you think they’d take all of our suspect prospects? The only one of those guys who has a realistic shot of being an everyday player is Surkamp.
Proud member of the cesspool of ethical bankruptcy known as the McC.
Proud adoptive parent of Brett Bochy, he's my boy now Bruce!
by Giant Torture on May 4, 2011 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Owlcroft is on record for Neal as an everyday regular.
by wcw on May 4, 2011 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Good for him.
Not going down this road again, but there are others who project him as a 4th/5th OF type.
Proud member of the cesspool of ethical bankruptcy known as the McC.
Proud adoptive parent of Brett Bochy, he's my boy now Bruce!
by Giant Torture on May 4, 2011 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions
there's still a possibility Neal is real.
It’s much more likely he’ll be a 4th/5th OF type, however.
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
I am on record for 4th OF
But worth considering that smart people disagree. His wRC+s in A, high A and double A were 123, 167 and 119 respectively. He’s reduced his Ks to an adequate 18% last year.
I’d trade him for Reyes, but I do not think he’s a regular.
by wcw on May 4, 2011 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions
I'd trade him for Reyes even if I thought he was
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
If Reyes is a 5-WAR player, and if he is a Type A, and if FA compensation exists, sure.
That’s two more ifs than I like here. If Neal really is a regular corner OF, I probably keep him.
by wcw on May 4, 2011 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions
well, Reyes is a 5 WAR player
and he’ll almost certainly be type A (ML SSs are not good, as a group)
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
He is on pace to be, yes. But he hasn’t been since 2006-8. Bettng money says he may be again, but the uncertainty is not zero, and uncertaintly leads me to discount.
by wcw on May 4, 2011 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions
he was on pace to be in '09 too.
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
He's on pace for an 8-win season.
He is definitely a 5-WAR player
Brandon Crawford: Your SF Giants 2012 Opening Day starting SS?
The chances that Neal could provide similar value to Reyes is very slim.
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way. - SLC
you trade contracts, not wins
The chance that Reyes provides surplus value beyond 2011 is nil. He will sign for market rate or above. The chance that Neal provides surplus value if you think he will be a 1- or 2-WAR 4th OF is near certainty.
by wcw on May 4, 2011 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm not convinced.
Your argument makes sense economically, but I think the Giants are at the point where wins are worth paying market value for. Your payroll is high, but your team is better.
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way. - SLC
If Neal is a 4th OF, he’s got surplus value of 1.5 wins times six years, less arb raises. Call it 5 wins, net. If Reyes brings back 2 comp picks of expected surplus value 2 wins total and delivers 4 wins while costing one, that’s 5 wins, net.
That is very similar. That’s all. Remember, I would trade Neal. But you can’t pretend he’s worthless even as a 4th OF.
by wcw on May 4, 2011 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Not worthless
But 5 net wins over 6 years is not thrilling, either.
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way. - SLC
their needs to be some formula that shows how much more valuable it is to consolidate all that WAR into one season with a competitive team. IMO 5 wins in one season is FAR more value than 5 net wins over 6 years.
Thing A
"Correlation between inability to use the reply button and general crappiness of analysis: pretty high." -Sleepy Freud
well, it is
roster spots are a limited commodity, and so are starting spots.
If you have 3 2 WAR starters, you have 6 WAR and 5 open spots, if you have 1 6 WAR starter, you have 6 WAR and 7 open spots.
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
A league average corner outfielder isn’t an outlandish expectation. That might only be good for a 4th outfielder, though, depending on your standards.
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way. - SLC
I wouldn't be shocked if he became league average
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
That is exactly the point:
“depending on your standards”.
Neal is not likely to be a star, much less a superstar. But he seems to fit into that class defined by “as good as many and better than some”. I’m not red-hot happy about him in a corner on a team that wants to go to post-season regularly, but overall he’s probably a legitimate starting-quality player on many teams.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehn.—Goethe
I am on record that he’ll be a perennial all-star and borderline HOFer!
"There was no torture in the end. Only rapture." - Mike Krukow
2010 Giants: World Series Champs
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on May 4, 2011 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Sean Kemp doesn't need to adopt any kids
He has like 20 illegitimate ones already.
I’ll be here all week.
"That's no moon... That's a San Francisco Giants World Series trophy."
-Obi-Wan Kenobi
by Uribe nee Gonzalez on May 4, 2011 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions
so, does that mean ESPN had to pay a monthly fee to access him?
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Brian Lawrence
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
I just look at it this way:
last year, we started the season a mess of a team, in that no one ended the year in the same place they started it, but Sabean was able to fix it for the most part.
Now, this year we find ourselves in a similar position. While part of the mess can be attributed to the DL, our IF and OF is a mess.
So we need to find workable, long-term solutions here. So in a way, this is the same as last year. You just know, of the players that starts all 8 positions today, maybe 4 of them will be in the same spots, or even in the lineup come September. Those 4 are Posey, Sanchez, Huff, and Ross. Maybe not even Ross.
So let’s take a look at our needs, and what the likely fillers are:
Positions that are squared away:
C- Posey
1B- Huff
2B- Sanchez
3B- Sandoval
CF- Torres
Positions that will be changed:
LF- Burrell, Belt. Who knows where this is going.
RF- Ross, Nate, (Rowand?). There’s a chance both of them aren’t viable by Sept.
SS- Fontenot isn’t long-term. Other than him, no options.
When Pablo couldn’t make it at 3B last year in the playoffs, we had depth to cover the position, resulting in TGWTWS. Right now, We’ve got 3 positions (maybe 4, depending on Huff) that need to find long-term fills, and backups for when things go screwy.
What do you do? Who’s our starting 8?
The only people for me are the mad ones. The ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars. ~Inspire Me
SS- Fontenot isn’t long-term. Other than him, no options.
I see what you did there.
Fortune favors the lucky.
by BusterHomerun on May 4, 2011 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Last year, they had Uribe. That was a big difference. He was actually good and he filled in for players expected to be but were not.
DeRosa was supposed to be that guy this year. He is not. The guys who were expected to be decent are completely awful.
This is a main problem. They relied on injured or over-the-hill stopgaps for starters. Sabean did not plan this one well at all.
The only people for me are the mad ones. The ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars. ~Inspire Me
Wait, have you been watching the Giants for any sustained period of time (longer than three months) for the past 13 years?
This has always been the game plan.
I thought it would change, TBH. Alot of things last year Sebean did that was highly unusual for him.
The only people for me are the mad ones. The ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars. ~Inspire Me
you mean his own mistakes he was forced to turn on?
The only people for me are the mad ones. The ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars. ~Inspire Me
well, he didn’t used to admit mistakes, so here’s to hoping
The only people for me are the mad ones. The ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars. ~Inspire Me
In the past decade most of his best moves (for instance, the Morris trade) have been to cover up mistakes he made before that.
"Lee pitches...Renteria hits a high drive, deep left-center field, David Murphy going back, he's on the warning track—it is...go-one!"
yeah, I know all that. I just wanted to make sure that’s what the poster was referring to
The only people for me are the mad ones. The ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars. ~Inspire Me
what?
are you talking about this year or last year?
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
this year is looking like last year. We’ll toil around .500 while the starting 8 are shuffled until things start to click, the team will take off.
The only people for me are the mad ones. The ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars. ~Inspire Me
It’s not really Sabean’s fault that DeRosa’s surgery didn’t take. He was one of the more targeted middling value FAs on the market that year.
Also, this logic doesn’t hold up for most people on the team not named Tejada.
"That’s the sort of pitch that Lincecum throws several times a game — the sort of pitch that made Satchel Paige say: 'I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain’t been seen by this generation.' Lincecum threw 10 or 15 generation pitches on Thursday." -Joe Posnanski
Et tu, Ribe?
For one, DeRosas surgery not taking, Sabes should have had a backup play for that, in case it didn’t take. He didn’t.
And Tehaha, he relied on him as starting SS, with no real backup, at least not long-term.
The only people for me are the mad ones. The ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars. ~Inspire Me
A back-up plan for your back-up? There’s only 25 spots on the roster, dude. You know that, right? Getting major-league quality players to accept minor-league assignment is nigh-on impossible.
"That’s the sort of pitch that Lincecum throws several times a game — the sort of pitch that made Satchel Paige say: 'I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain’t been seen by this generation.' Lincecum threw 10 or 15 generation pitches on Thursday." -Joe Posnanski
Et tu, Ribe?
There was a back-up for DeRosa – Sabean had signed a bunch of guys for undefined positions (which I had generally opposed, LOL me), and the team was able to cover all positions last year. This year DeRosa’s stint on the DL is relatively minor compared to some of the other injuries.
I will admit that I’m annoyed that the team doesn’t seem to have anything close to ready in the minors for the middle part of the infield, but again, there’s only so much a team can do. Tejada was a bad decision, but without a sacrifice in another position (for a trade), it’s hard to figure out how to get a decent SS at this point. It probably won’t be until nearer to the trade deadline before a real move is made (although it may be too late by then).
I DON'T BELIEVE YOU (AGAIN)
I tweet (more often than I blarg).
That’s what I’m a little afraid of. Sabean pinned the team to an egotistical 37-year-old SS. Too early to panic, to be sure, but still unsettling, nonetheless.
Remember that the Padres won last year playing as a team, a cohesiveness, and once they got Tehaha, they fell apart. I just don’t like the way dude plays the game, and I have a feeling he isn’t well-liked by the team either.
The only people for me are the mad ones. The ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars. ~Inspire Me
Put away the star maps, dude. Tejada isn’t the reason the Padres fell apart.
"That’s the sort of pitch that Lincecum throws several times a game — the sort of pitch that made Satchel Paige say: 'I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain’t been seen by this generation.' Lincecum threw 10 or 15 generation pitches on Thursday." -Joe Posnanski
Et tu, Ribe?
Tejada had a .730 OPS after going to the Padres. He was probably one of the reasons the Padres did not lose more games.
And also, Latos
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Brian Lawrence
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
Right.
He was worth 1.7 bWAR while the Padres came crashing back to earth. The fact that Latos flagged hard and Ludwick was a dud had way more to do with it.
"That’s the sort of pitch that Lincecum throws several times a game — the sort of pitch that made Satchel Paige say: 'I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain’t been seen by this generation.' Lincecum threw 10 or 15 generation pitches on Thursday." -Joe Posnanski
Et tu, Ribe?
pinned the team?
really?
I think he was expecting Tejada to come in and give like 1.5 more wins than a replacement level SS, given what he paid him. Not only is that not pinning the team on someone, it really wasn’t anywhere close to unreasonable at the time.
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
I dunno – I’m guessing they knew Tejada was meh, but he was all they could find. I wouldn’t expect them to say so, though.
I DON'T BELIEVE YOU (AGAIN)
I tweet (more often than I blarg).
He was, sadly, one of the best remaining options after Uribe signed. And I can’t hold it agains the Giants at all for not wanting a 32 year-old utility guy with weight questions for 3/24.
"That’s the sort of pitch that Lincecum throws several times a game — the sort of pitch that made Satchel Paige say: 'I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain’t been seen by this generation.' Lincecum threw 10 or 15 generation pitches on Thursday." -Joe Posnanski
Et tu, Ribe?
I would not have wanted Uribe for that either. I’m okay with the non-signing.
I DON'T BELIEVE YOU (AGAIN)
I tweet (more often than I blarg).
exactly
paying for about a win and a half is pretty much what I’d define as expecting “meh”
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
perhaps it’s Bochys never-ending playing of Tehaha, hitting 2nd, not benching him when he should, that I should be upset with too.
When I said “pinning the team to Tehaha”, I meant more or less they pinned their SS hopes- the most important defensive position on the team- to him.
And I still believe he is not well-liked by the team.
The only people for me are the mad ones. The ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars. ~Inspire Me
2nd most important defensive position on the team.
I’m not going to speculate on what the sentiment is in the clubhouse, cuz I’m not there.
What would you have done (given that they ruled out making trades) for SS this year?
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
What would you call most important?
CF?
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way. - SLC
catcher
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
catcher
ss
cf
2b
3b
rf
lf
1b
cf 2b and 3b are really close, and so are rf and lf
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
You could probably split these into different pools based on size (for example, Mike Fontenot will never play first base, and Brandon Belt will never play SS), but the general gist of this is absolutely correct.
"That’s the sort of pitch that Lincecum throws several times a game — the sort of pitch that made Satchel Paige say: 'I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain’t been seen by this generation.' Lincecum threw 10 or 15 generation pitches on Thursday." -Joe Posnanski
Et tu, Ribe?
CATCHER
Ross on Halladay: "I’d tried everything against him…going the other way, taking pitches, trying to walk…and nothing worked. I’d never tried going up there and just trying to hit a home run off him."
My boy has mad hops
I rant on Twitter
Seeing Tejada’s play makes me wish we had traded for Bartlett, but the FA options were all pretty lousy.
I would have been okay with Orlando Cabrera, but I can’t even sell myself on that. He’d have been a cheaper version of Tejada… just as much of a crap shoot.
"That’s the sort of pitch that Lincecum throws several times a game — the sort of pitch that made Satchel Paige say: 'I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain’t been seen by this generation.' Lincecum threw 10 or 15 generation pitches on Thursday." -Joe Posnanski
Et tu, Ribe?
SD paid a lot for Bartlett, who hasn’t exactly lit it up.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Brian Lawrence
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
He’s also playing in Petco.
"That’s the sort of pitch that Lincecum throws several times a game — the sort of pitch that made Satchel Paige say: 'I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain’t been seen by this generation.' Lincecum threw 10 or 15 generation pitches on Thursday." -Joe Posnanski
Et tu, Ribe?
Not sure why that would matter. He’s never been a homerun hitter. Having a big park should help, not hurt him.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Brian Lawrence
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
Component park factors for 2006-2010 rate all types of hits as suppressed in Petco to some degree, except for a slight bump in triples.
It’s where offense goes to die.
"That’s the sort of pitch that Lincecum throws several times a game — the sort of pitch that made Satchel Paige say: 'I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain’t been seen by this generation.' Lincecum threw 10 or 15 generation pitches on Thursday." -Joe Posnanski
Et tu, Ribe?
OTOH
Dodgers are paying Uribe for ~5 wins over three years. Which shouldn’t be too hard.
Gigante. Campeón. Pumpkin. Andrés Torres.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
ehhhhhhhh it's Juan Uribe
he’s really not as good as he was with us. We got really lucky.
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
/lights cigar with $100 bill
Charlie Hayes ate my homework
by glenallen hill's waterpipe on May 4, 2011 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Right, right, and right.
Which is why I’m more inclined to lay off a trade unless we can maximize value by doing something now. It’s very unlikely to happen, so I’m really not getting my hopes up on Reyes, but rather that Fontenot has a career year and Sandoval has a speedy recovery.
The Giants have invested a lot in the last few years into Burriss, Frandsen, Crawford, Adrianza, and others, and we have fallen flat on pretty much all of them. You can blame the scouting if you want, but the dearth of good SS at the major league level right now is kind of telling. It’s a really hard spot on your roster to fill. No matted what you want to say about scouting, we’ve had shit luck in terms of depth.
"That’s the sort of pitch that Lincecum throws several times a game — the sort of pitch that made Satchel Paige say: 'I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain’t been seen by this generation.' Lincecum threw 10 or 15 generation pitches on Thursday." -Joe Posnanski
Et tu, Ribe?
I wonder – is this the kind of thing that young players will take note of, and perhaps make a move to SS in response to? If I’m a kid playing right now, maybe I see that there aren’t many superstar SSs and figure I can be noticed more if I’m good at the position. Does talent at a particular position cycle that way?
I DON'T BELIEVE YOU (AGAIN)
I tweet (more often than I blarg).
I get the impression that everyone starts out at shortstop and moves to another position when they’re not good enough anymore.
that or catcher
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
One might wonder if there are fewer SS because the average physical tools of an athlete has changed in the last few decades.
"That’s the sort of pitch that Lincecum throws several times a game — the sort of pitch that made Satchel Paige say: 'I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain’t been seen by this generation.' Lincecum threw 10 or 15 generation pitches on Thursday." -Joe Posnanski
Et tu, Ribe?
It would be interesting to track, but again, CF and SS aren’t something that anybody can play. You start from those positions and move them to 2B/3B, the outfield corners, and other places when it becomes clear they don’t have the range, instincts, or hands to play those positions. Also, SS is limited by the fact that lefties can’t play it, so you’re shrinking your talent pool even further. And given that competitive teams expect everyone to field and hit, that roots out the Adrianzas of the world, too, unless they are Omar Vizquel-level good.
"That’s the sort of pitch that Lincecum throws several times a game — the sort of pitch that made Satchel Paige say: 'I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain’t been seen by this generation.' Lincecum threw 10 or 15 generation pitches on Thursday." -Joe Posnanski
Et tu, Ribe?
I'd play Belt every day, switching off between 1B, LF, and RF
Giving Pat, Cody, and Aubrey days off.
Gigante. Campeón. Pumpkin. Andrés Torres.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
and twice on Sunday?
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Brian Lawrence
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
I wouldn’t be so quick to put Belt in RF, though. We’re talking long-term solutions for the season.
I agree that Belt should play everyday, and when he does play 1B, Huff goes to LF or the bench.
The only people for me are the mad ones. The ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars. ~Inspire Me
Right field isn't Narnia
We put freaking Jose Guillen there last year. And Huff! Belt is better than either of them.
Gigante. Campeón. Pumpkin. Andrés Torres.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
And you remember how bad both of them were, and how many runs they cost us? That’s not a solution, which is why I’m not quick to put Belt out there. Belt may be a stopgap for a game or two, but not a solution.
Belt should be relegated to LF and 1B. Don’t put too much pressure on the rookie playing the hardest RF in baseball
The only people for me are the mad ones. The ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars. ~Inspire Me
huff's terribad D
is largely SSS and bad luck. He won’t be a great defender out there, but he’s not THAT bad.
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
This line
Ross on Halladay: "I’d tried everything against him…going the other way, taking pitches, trying to walk…and nothing worked. I’d never tried going up there and just trying to hit a home run off him."
My boy has mad hops
I rant on Twitter
I don't buy this whole "right-field-in-ATT-is-like-fighting-a-dragon" thing that some people have
But fine, whatever. If you’re really that concerned, then play him in RF on the road. I don’t care. I just think that Cody, Pat, and Aubrey should all lose equal playing time to Belt.
Gigante. Campeón. Pumpkin. Andrés Torres.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
I agree with that.
I think we’re in such a transitional period right now as far as players scattered all over, subject to change, that I may not have picked the right time to post this.
Perhaps a week from now, once we have a better idea of Huff, and how Belt defends the OF, we can pick this back up. It’s hard to debate options when you haven’t seen the biggest game-changer yet.
The only people for me are the mad ones. The ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars. ~Inspire Me
Narnia!
"That's no moon... That's a San Francisco Giants World Series trophy."
-Obi-Wan Kenobi
by Uribe nee Gonzalez on May 4, 2011 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions
While I do agree with both the sentiment that he should be playing every day (wherever he is) and that his playing time should come out of several different players’ time if he’s up with the Giants, my main reaction to this is what do you have against that kid? You’re going to bring him up and make him adjust to playing at the highest level while playing musical chairs with his defensive positions?
I just don’t think it’s that easy to jump all over the diamond like that.
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on May 4, 2011 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions
LOLINEUP
CF Rowand, 2B Sanchez, SS Fontenot, C Posey, 1B Huff, LF Burrell, RF Schierholtz, 3B Tejada, P Lincecum
"For science. You monster."
Tejada = Molina
Gives me sad everytime I see his name in the LOLineup.
Relief! I Thank you for your Lefferts.
except with Molina there at least was long term superior option available in Posey. With Tejada, there’s nothing.
"There was no torture in the end. Only rapture." - Mike Krukow
2010 Giants: World Series Champs
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on May 4, 2011 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions
excatly.
we pinned everything to Tehaha, and we will go down with him too.
The only people for me are the mad ones. The ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars. ~Inspire Me
Everyone pretty sucks right now.
Buster is average
Huff is awful
Burrell is bad
Panda is out
Torres is out.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Brian Lawrence
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
it’s more or less a perfect storm of bad play and bad luck. there’s just less hope with Tejada turning it around.
"There was no torture in the end. Only rapture." - Mike Krukow
2010 Giants: World Series Champs
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on May 4, 2011 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions
there really isn't
or, there shouldn’t be, at least.
I think people are just acting that way because he didn’t provide any good memories for us last year.
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
I’m not going down with Miguel Tejada
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
Kudos, You are a sick, sick man, but you are very good at it -- wcw
What about OPP?
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Brian Lawrence
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
well you know me
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
I keep telling myself that this is their way of exhausting his list of possible excuses.
My son, so I'm told. And this stalwart young lad (Hi, free f.p. #14!).
I actually kinda like Fontenot hitting third
am I the only one?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
I dont mind
Until Huff gets it going again
"For science. You monster."
I would like for Huff and Nate to hit homers again
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Brian Lawrence
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
I agree with this
but wow
Proud papa to: Bill Schlough, Senior Vice President and Chief Information Officer, aka the IT guy.
Your mom's a girl
There aren’t really that many options, which is part of the problem.
I DON'T BELIEVE YOU (AGAIN)
I tweet (more often than I blarg).
isn’t it a lefty out there tonight?
The only people for me are the mad ones. The ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars. ~Inspire Me
wow really?
then I’m not so sure about it.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
yep, Mets P is a lefty.
The only people for me are the mad ones. The ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars. ~Inspire Me
Nope
It’s a decent fit. He’s competent with the bat, doesn’t have double play issues, decent speed.
by GuyWhiteyCorngood on May 4, 2011 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Not against a lefty
But whatever.
Gigante. Campeón. Pumpkin. Andrés Torres.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
I don't like him hitting 3rd vs. a lefty.
Brandon Crawford: Your SF Giants 2012 Opening Day starting SS?
I don't like him hitting vs. a lefty.
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
probably
and switch Nate and Ross
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
I’m okay with it.
Currently stifling the bacon, the world.
by howtheyscored on May 4, 2011 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions
+1
"That's no moon... That's a San Francisco Giants World Series trophy."
-Obi-Wan Kenobi
by Uribe nee Gonzalez on May 4, 2011 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Chattanooga Choo-Choo!
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
All I see is that Ross should be playing over Burrell, given it’s a lefty
The only people for me are the mad ones. The ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars. ~Inspire Me
Ross should be playing over Nate but Nate is kind of hot right now I guess
No one here gets out alive.
hot enough for Zito to sneak glances at him
Fortune favors the lucky.
by BusterHomerun on May 4, 2011 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions
OMG
It’s as if Zito’s hair is trying to move over and cover up Schierholtz’s bald pate.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on May 4, 2011 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Nate has reverse splits anyways.
The only people for me are the mad ones. The ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars. ~Inspire Me
not in his much larger minor league sample
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
I thought the minor league splits site wasn’t active anymore?
The only people for me are the mad ones. The ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars. ~Inspire Me
There's other places to get them.
Proud member of the cesspool of ethical bankruptcy known as the McC.
Proud adoptive parent of Brett Bochy, he's my boy now Bruce!
by Giant Torture on May 4, 2011 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions
and even so, Nates had enough ML ABs that perhaps something has changed. Like facing a ML-caliber lefty forces him to keep his front shoulder up, and he hits them better for some reason?
The only people for me are the mad ones. The ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars. ~Inspire Me
LOL CODY
Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.
LOL Microsplits:
Cody is 3/7 with a homer off of Capuano.
Brandon Crawford: Your SF Giants 2012 Opening Day starting SS?
is he injured or something?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
THAT'S THE JOKE
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
Okay.
Currently stifling the bacon, the world.
by howtheyscored on May 4, 2011 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions
reasons for optimism:
everyone in that lineup hits lefties well, except Tehaha, who only hits the showers.
This would have been a good opportunity for RyRohl to start.
The only people for me are the mad ones. The ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars. ~Inspire Me
Nate doesn't hit anyone well
Huff doensn’t hit lefties well either.
Tejada mashed lefties as recently as last season.
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
In LOLSSS, Nate is hitting well over .300 against lefties.
"That’s the sort of pitch that Lincecum throws several times a game — the sort of pitch that made Satchel Paige say: 'I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain’t been seen by this generation.' Lincecum threw 10 or 15 generation pitches on Thursday." -Joe Posnanski
Et tu, Ribe?
lolsss being key there
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
WHAT ABOUT THE 3RD DECK SHOT!
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Brian Lawrence
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
Ummm....
I don’t know if “mash” is the proper term. He did better against lefties than righties and posted an .836 OPS, but that was over about 175 PA’s, SSS. Seasonal splits aren’t exactly accurate.
Proud member of the cesspool of ethical bankruptcy known as the McC.
Proud adoptive parent of Brett Bochy, he's my boy now Bruce!
by Giant Torture on May 4, 2011 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Tehaha doesn’t mash anyone. That’s the point.
The only people for me are the mad ones. The ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars. ~Inspire Me
ugh
he had a 125 wRC+ vs lefties last year. That is mashing. Especially for a SS. He has a career 121 wRC+ vs lefties. That is also mashing.
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
The 121 wRC+ is great and all, 2010 is too small of a sample. Point is that he sucks this year and hasn’t hit a ball hard in about two months. His bat looks slow, his feet look even slower and we’re passing the point where this is just SSS noise.
Proud member of the cesspool of ethical bankruptcy known as the McC.
Proud adoptive parent of Brett Bochy, he's my boy now Bruce!
by Giant Torture on May 4, 2011 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions
100 PA
Huff has been nearly as bad over the same period. So has Carl Crawford. So has Hanley goddamn Ramirez.
Tejada has a VERY good history vs. lefties, over a much larger sample than anything he’s done this year.
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
So you’re telling me there is a good chance Tehaha might go 2-4 with 2 doubles against this pitcher tonight, since he’s a lefty?
at this point, LH, RH, underhand, or even no hand, Tehaha can’t hit anything.
The only people for me are the mad ones. The ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars. ~Inspire Me
there's a good chance Tejada might go 2-4 with 2 doubles against any pitcher any night
he’s simply not as bad as he’s been, not even close.
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
I find that hard to believe. He just looks like he’s fallen off a cliff.
The only people for me are the mad ones. The ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars. ~Inspire Me
lots of people look like that
Huff and Burrell in 2009 for example, Durham in 2007.
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
young man lost hat
old man lost mind, etc etc.
Huff was 32, Burrell was 32, Durham was 35
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
There are a lot more productive 32 year-olds than there are productive 37 year-olds.
"That’s the sort of pitch that Lincecum throws several times a game — the sort of pitch that made Satchel Paige say: 'I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain’t been seen by this generation.' Lincecum threw 10 or 15 generation pitches on Thursday." -Joe Posnanski
Et tu, Ribe?
well true
all I’m saying is that you can’t definitively state Tejada’s completely lost all his skills based on 100 terrible PAs, unless you’re willing to say the same about Huff.
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
actually you can
because tejada is 5 years older. That is a huge difference.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, WORLD CHAMPION SAN FRANCISCO GIANT
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
11/1/10
3 years
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
well
even THAT is a huge difference. 37 is fucking ollllldddd
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, WORLD CHAMPION SAN FRANCISCO GIANT
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
11/1/10
also
huff is a 1B, not a SS. That’s a major difference
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, WORLD CHAMPION SAN FRANCISCO GIANT
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
11/1/10
yeah
it means Huff’s bat is supposed to be better, making his struggles with the bat impact the team more than tejada’s.
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
There's a lot more chance of Huff recovering that Tejada
we can look to last season and see that he was good. Tejada…you have to go back a ways.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, WORLD CHAMPION SAN FRANCISCO GIANT
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
11/1/10
I think the Giants
were expecting approximately last year’s production, which, while he’d likely still be the worst starter, wouldn’t be horrible, would be in line with his contract, and they’d be unlikely to get anything better in house. He’s struggled in his first 100 PA and everyone’s saying he’s done.
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
I agree with you.
They were hoping for a repeat of last year’s performance (either side of the trade).
However, after 100 PAs I do not believe he is capable of repeating those numbers.
all the way to 2008
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
sorry, 2009
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
it meansHuff’s batTejada’s defense is supposed to be better, making his struggleswith the batimpact the team more thantejada’sHuff’s.
"That’s the sort of pitch that Lincecum throws several times a game — the sort of pitch that made Satchel Paige say: 'I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain’t been seen by this generation.' Lincecum threw 10 or 15 generation pitches on Thursday." -Joe Posnanski
Et tu, Ribe?
yes, neither have been good.
Huff has been worse, so far, by about 6 runs.
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
Largely because of his misadventures in right field.
"That’s the sort of pitch that Lincecum throws several times a game — the sort of pitch that made Satchel Paige say: 'I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain’t been seen by this generation.' Lincecum threw 10 or 15 generation pitches on Thursday." -Joe Posnanski
Et tu, Ribe?
And the positional adjustment that give Tejada credit for being at SS and having a pulse.
"That’s the sort of pitch that Lincecum throws several times a game — the sort of pitch that made Satchel Paige say: 'I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain’t been seen by this generation.' Lincecum threw 10 or 15 generation pitches on Thursday." -Joe Posnanski
Et tu, Ribe?
it's also harsher on him on D
he’s being judged against other SS, not lumbering 1B/corner OF
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
true
take those away, and they’ve been about the same amount of bad
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
in a baseball context!!
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, WORLD CHAMPION SAN FRANCISCO GIANT
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
11/1/10
Sounds like a little wager is in order.
"Career potential: situational lefty." Situation: Ragnarok, bases loaded, Odin at the plate. You know who's getting the call.
-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler
I'd be surprised if he ends the year with a sub-80 wRC+
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
Well then.
Sounds like someone wants to bet money on Tejada not being the worst player in baseball.
"Career potential: situational lefty." Situation: Ragnarok, bases loaded, Odin at the plate. You know who's getting the call.
-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler
I will bet you, sir
That Tejada WILL end the year with a sub-80 wRC+. And I don’t even know what that is.
"Career potential: situational lefty." Situation: Ragnarok, bases loaded, Odin at the plate. You know who's getting the call.
-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler
GAMBLING IN THE CHAMPAGNE ROOM?!?!
/frets
Charlie Hayes ate my homework
by glenallen hill's waterpipe on May 4, 2011 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions
As usual, it’s a matter of risk assessment. The odds that Huff would rebound were not fantastic, but for $3 mil the price was right and the gamble paid off.
Tejada is awful, looks awful in every phase of the game, and is at an age where many players become awful. Gambling against those odds is much more likely to burn you than help you at this point.
"That’s the sort of pitch that Lincecum throws several times a game — the sort of pitch that made Satchel Paige say: 'I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain’t been seen by this generation.' Lincecum threw 10 or 15 generation pitches on Thursday." -Joe Posnanski
Et tu, Ribe?
well I don’t want to wait around on him.
not to mention he seems like an asshole to boot. “You ask me that question like that ball cost us the game”. “I think that’s the only AB I’ve been frustrated with all year.”
I’m not even going to participate in discussions about him anymore
The only people for me are the mad ones. The ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars. ~Inspire Me
seeing as i'm not in the clubhouse
i’ll reserve judgement on how he’s impacting the clubhouse
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
I'd prefer not to wait around for him either
which is why I’m for trading for Reyes. But the general opinion of him here is lower than he deserves, IMO. And if I had to guess, I’d say it’s because every team needs a scapegoat, and Tejada’s the most convenient one.
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
he's deserved criticism
but he’s gotten much more than players who have been just as bad (Huff, Ross), and I’d say that’s largely because he wasn’t a part of last year.
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
Also, Huff and Ross seem to have good personalities. Tejada not as much.
Brandon Crawford: Your SF Giants 2012 Opening Day starting SS?
For all the reasons to hate Tejada, his personality really isn’t one. The guy is trying his best out there. Unfortunately, his best is god awful.
"Career potential: situational lefty." Situation: Ragnarok, bases loaded, Odin at the plate. You know who's getting the call.
-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler
It’s more along the lines of “this guy is sucking, but I like him as a person, so I’m going to focus on the guy I don’t like.”
Although as of recently, some people might have jumped off the Huff – good personality bandwagon.
Brandon Crawford: Your SF Giants 2012 Opening Day starting SS?
Partly that and partly that we're all SO worked up by him
that we don’t have much energy left to focus on the others.
Though, Huff is high on my “Next Giant to Fall Off A Cliff” watch list.
But I’m Pro Ross.
let's look at the Yankees roster
Robinson Cano
Brett Gardner
Andruw Jones
Nick Swisher
all had years where they looked like they fell off a cliff, then rebounded
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
That's right. Robinson Cano's age 25 season is a totally appropriate comparison
to the struggles of Miguel Tejada in 2011.
This proves nothing
Guys like Khalil Greene, Ryan Garko and Bernie Williams fell off a cliff and died.
That is cray-z.
they were never really on a cliff to begin with.
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
well Williams was
but his decline was much more gradual
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
They were basically the same as Tejada.
Khalil was an above average player the 4 years before that.
Garko you’re right.
That is cray-z.
Williams was the only one on par with Tejada
and his numbers suffered a pretty gradual decline. He never really fell off a cliff, more like rolled down a hill. If the same happened to Tejada, I wouldn’t be surprised.
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
How is a 5 WAR player for 6 straight years suddenly turning into a replacement player a gradual decline?
That’s the exact definition of falling off a cliff.
That is cray-z.
he was still an above average hitter
in ’03 and ’04, just not the absolute beast he was before that.
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
Changing the topic
They really wouldn’t move him out of CF would they? I haven’t seen many FG pages with a player’s total defense over 150 runs below average.
That is cray-z.
yeah they were pretty stubborn
his UZR declined like 5 runs/year for his last 4 seasons, and it wasn’t good to begin with
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
So did that Segway dude
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
Kudos, You are a sick, sick man, but you are very good at it -- wcw
I wouldn't say that with such certainty
There are points in some baseball players careers, where they suddenly seem to lose all ability and will be out of baseball within a year.
That is cray-z.
it doesn't happen nearly as often as people seem to think, though.
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
When older players suffer huge dropoffs in performance, they typically don’t recover.
That is cray-z.
not as true as you'd think
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
This seems more like you're baiting us into a trap
wherein you ask us to present to you a list of 37 year olds coming off 90 OPS+ seasons who struggle through their first 100 PA and don’t wind up with something close to a 90 OPS+ by season’s end, when it really should be you giving us the list of players who do.
Often, they don’t get the chance to recover. Of those that do, I believe more bounce than don’t.
Currently stifling the bacon, the world.
by howtheyscored on May 4, 2011 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Or do they get the chance to recover because it seems likely that they’ll bounce back?
That is cray-z.
what do you mean "seems likely"
seems likely by the numbers? Tejada certainly fits.
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
37 year old former PED users with diminishing contact skills are likely to bounce back?
That is cray-z.
Find me one who didn't!
you’re really narrowing the terms there, but OK. Tejada’s contact% is actually above his career. His 3 year 5-4-3 weighted wRC+ is 97.
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
so, yes, I'd say he's a likely bounceback candidate
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
Rafael Palmeiro?
Gary Matthews Jr.?
Bret Boone?
Troy Glaus?
Matt Williams?
Juan Gonzalez?
Chuck Knoblauch?
That is cray-z.
Above average hitter at 41
Was never any good to begin with
Wasn’t good for half a season at 36, never got another chance
Was above average with the bat last year
Never had a wRC+ below 80 and was very up and down for 5 years. Did not fall off a cliff.
Never played a full season after 2001, averaged 109 wRC+ over his last 780 PA
Probably your best case, only played half his age 33 season, then never played again
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
this, mostly
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
Also, Huff ’s platoon split against lefties is not that huge. The loss in SLG is the big issue there, but he still hits league average agains them.
"That’s the sort of pitch that Lincecum throws several times a game — the sort of pitch that made Satchel Paige say: 'I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain’t been seen by this generation.' Lincecum threw 10 or 15 generation pitches on Thursday." -Joe Posnanski
Et tu, Ribe?
that was a trend that emerged in 2010, right? his splits vs lefties?
The only people for me are the mad ones. The ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars. ~Inspire Me
Huff had virtually no split last year. 10 points of OBP advantage against righties, and identical SLG.
"That’s the sort of pitch that Lincecum throws several times a game — the sort of pitch that made Satchel Paige say: 'I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain’t been seen by this generation.' Lincecum threw 10 or 15 generation pitches on Thursday." -Joe Posnanski
Et tu, Ribe?
that’s what I remembered, but that wasn’t in line with his career splits- he just had a better year vs LH
The only people for me are the mad ones. The ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars. ~Inspire Me
See below: it’s almost completely in line with his career splits.
"That’s the sort of pitch that Lincecum throws several times a game — the sort of pitch that made Satchel Paige say: 'I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain’t been seen by this generation.' Lincecum threw 10 or 15 generation pitches on Thursday." -Joe Posnanski
Et tu, Ribe?
ah. I thought I remembered someone saying his splits vs LHP in 2010 was a newer trend.
The only people for me are the mad ones. The ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars. ~Inspire Me
it was actually smaller than I thought
I think I was looking at this year’s wRC+ vs lefties (80) instead of career.
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
I think the fact that Huff can hit against lefties, albeit without much power, is part of what makes him an effective everyday player.
"That’s the sort of pitch that Lincecum throws several times a game — the sort of pitch that made Satchel Paige say: 'I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain’t been seen by this generation.' Lincecum threw 10 or 15 generation pitches on Thursday." -Joe Posnanski
Et tu, Ribe?
Ted Lilly disagrees.
/optimism
The only people for me are the mad ones. The ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars. ~Inspire Me
Yeah… starting to piss me off! AM I RIGHT OR AM I RIGHT?
Currently stifling the bacon, the world.
by howtheyscored on May 4, 2011 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Just admit that I’m right.
Currently stifling the bacon, the world.
by howtheyscored on May 4, 2011 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions
would have been a good time to start RyRohl
The only people for me are the mad ones. The ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars. ~Inspire Me
Worried that there isn't enough magic in the moonlight
for both the Giants and the Sharks to win tonight.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Brian Lawrence
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
BOOM!
this line.
“Ice is for drinks”
Charlie Hayes ate my homework
by glenallen hill's waterpipe on May 4, 2011 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions
I hope the Giants win and Tejada sucks
Gigante. Campeón. Pumpkin. Andrés Torres.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
guaranteed to be at least half right.
"There was no torture in the end. Only rapture." - Mike Krukow
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by nostocksjustbonds on May 4, 2011 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions
When is it okay to start hoping that Tejada goes to the DL with a minor injury?
"That’s the sort of pitch that Lincecum throws several times a game — the sort of pitch that made Satchel Paige say: 'I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain’t been seen by this generation.' Lincecum threw 10 or 15 generation pitches on Thursday." -Joe Posnanski
Et tu, Ribe?
after DeRosa gets back
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
I'm loathe to root for injuries
I’d rather root for the front office to come to its senses.
Gigante. Campeón. Pumpkin. Andrés Torres.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
That’s like rooting for the meteor.
It’s the best case scenario, but it’s not going to happen.
"That’s the sort of pitch that Lincecum throws several times a game — the sort of pitch that made Satchel Paige say: 'I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain’t been seen by this generation.' Lincecum threw 10 or 15 generation pitches on Thursday." -Joe Posnanski
Et tu, Ribe?
the giants have absolutely no depth right now
by Sabean_Is_Iago on May 4, 2011 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions
no wonder no one wants to marry them
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Brian Lawrence
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
by calbearjd on May 4, 2011 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
that’s because it’s not written in Shakespeare prose
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Brian Lawrence
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
SHALLOW TEAM
The only people for me are the mad ones. The ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars. ~Inspire Me
The Giants have a bunch of depth.
It just all happens to be injured.
My son!
Man of the Crazy Sink.
Also related to a certain GasCan.
I'M A GIRL
Can I hope that Tejada just becomes below average?
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Brian Lawrence
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
is it just me, or does Lilly get lit up in every start?
The only people for me are the mad ones. The ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars. ~Inspire Me
Am I the only one getting some stupid ad covering up 25% of my screen that I can’t close?
That is cray-z.
Wow
At least we didn’t sign Carlos Pena.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
LOLCUBS
"That’s the sort of pitch that Lincecum throws several times a game — the sort of pitch that made Satchel Paige say: 'I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain’t been seen by this generation.' Lincecum threw 10 or 15 generation pitches on Thursday." -Joe Posnanski
Et tu, Ribe?
He looks awful
But that’s why the Cubs just got him for one year. NEXT STOP PUJOLS.
Gigante. Campeón. Pumpkin. Andrés Torres.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
he was slugging .219 coming into the game!
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
stop making fun of Choo’s blood alcohol level!
Charlie Hayes ate my homework
by glenallen hill's waterpipe on May 4, 2011 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Good move by the Cubs. Unfortunate that it didn't work out.
And the second career collapse of Ryan Dempster is still more bad luck for the Cubs.
I don’t know, the down year in Tampa was a red flag for me.
Did they get anything out of cutting loose Derrek Lee?
"That’s the sort of pitch that Lincecum throws several times a game — the sort of pitch that made Satchel Paige say: 'I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain’t been seen by this generation.' Lincecum threw 10 or 15 generation pitches on Thursday." -Joe Posnanski
Et tu, Ribe?
Jose Lopez has an OPS+ of 1
Your argument is invalid.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
Kudos, You are a sick, sick man, but you are very good at it -- wcw
so funny
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
That needs to be the standard reply to Roxgirl for all things she says
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
Kudos, You are a sick, sick man, but you are very good at it -- wcw
Classless, vile, ethically bankrupt preening fauxhawks of weapons grade stupidity!
WHY CAN’T YOU JUST SIT BACK AND ENJOY WHAT THE ROCKIES ARE DOING AND ACCEPT THAT IT IS THEIR YEAR, OKAY?
GiantPain agrees.
The only people for me are the mad ones. The ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars. ~Inspire Me
Kroon pitched one inning
He gave up two hits and a run, but struck out two and walked none.
Gigante. Campeón. Pumpkin. Andrés Torres.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
I had a creative writing professor once
Who insisted that the answer to the question “Did you mean to do that?” in relation to writing should always be “yes”.
Gigante. Campeón. Pumpkin. Andrés Torres.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
Gave up two hits and a run
but struck out two and walked none
fastball blazin’ couldn’t believe my eyes
strawhats can’t even claim ribeyes
Gigante. Campeón. Pumpkin. Andrés Torres.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
by GiantPain on May 4, 2011 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
I like this.
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on May 4, 2011 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions
FIP FTW
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
Kudos, You are a sick, sick man, but you are very good at it -- wcw
The #3 hitters in the lineups today for the Giants, Dodgers, and Cubs
have combined to hit 2 HRs this season.
Can't spell "Colletti" without LOL.
What is it with third basemen and injuries this year?
Fortune favors the lucky.
by BusterHomerun on May 4, 2011 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions
left the game due to an injured Jazz hand.
Fixed.
Can't spell "Colletti" without LOL.
by D4P on May 4, 2011 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions
there goes Casey Blake's sex life.
Honorary parent of Duane Kuiper, beloved solar powered broadcaster and power hitting coach for the Giants.
GOOD AGENT
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
Perhaps it's a littler early to discuss this...
But what about waiting, and trying to make a serious effort at signing him this offseason?
There was a neat spreadsheet in a thread yesterday showing the Giants financial situation, and it seemed that they could afford to pay Reyes 15mil a year without seriously increasing payroll, and hope that as Zito, Rowand, and Huff come off the books there will be enough financial relief to not lose any important players on the current team. Reyes would most likely be a type A, so would losing the draft pick be a serious loss?
I’m not thrilled about giving up one of our few elite prospects for a rental, but I’d be interested in the Giants making a top-of-the-line FA acquisition for once.
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way. - SLC
We’d have to give up a 1st round pick for him.
Brandon Crawford: Your SF Giants 2012 Opening Day starting SS?
And would that really outweigh 4-5 years of above average production at shortstop?
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way. - SLC
No
But it’s a good reason to trade for him rather than sign him.
Gigante. Campeón. Pumpkin. Andrés Torres.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
We'd be luck to get someone as good as Wheeler with that pick.
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way. - SLC
If we are going to get him anyways, might as well get him 3 months earlier, when he’s, monetarily speaking, cheaper, and can help up win this year.
Brandon Crawford: Your SF Giants 2012 Opening Day starting SS?
I was exploring the rental vs long term idea.
I don’t like rentals either, considering how easily he could leave, but I acknowledge he would be a very valuable addition. Getting him as a FA offers a different risk/reward scenario.
Assuming we could not guarantee he would re-sign with us after this year, does the FA option become more attractive?
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way. - SLC
I’m not sure I understand your question.
Brandon Crawford: Your SF Giants 2012 Opening Day starting SS?
Consider 3 options:
The first two involve trading for Reyes, and giving up Wheeler.
Option 1 is that he re-signs for 4-5 years, we keep the 2012 draft pick and hopefully draft someone who could have a similar impact as Wheeler.
Option 2 is that he walks after 2011. We get our comp picks, and hope that one of our 2012 picks results in a prospect on Wheeler’s level.
Option 3 (the one that I posed) is that we attempt to sign him in 2012. If he signs, we lose a draft pick, but retain Wheeler (a more known quantity). If he doesn’t, then we haven’t lost anything important.
My thought is that Option 3 provides the best risk/reward scenario. We get the opportunity to benefit from having Reyes long term without losing an important prospect in our system. I think that we’d be lucky to get someone at Wheeler’s level with our picks in 2012, as he was a top 10 pick in 2009, and figure to hit the big leagues in the next couple of years.
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way. - SLC
Option 3 has us at a worse team right now, with the odds of us making the play offs is around 30%.
Brandon Crawford: Your SF Giants 2012 Opening Day starting SS?
Yes, but our ability to win in the following years hasn’t been damaged.
I’m not obsessed with making the playoffs this year, but I would like to see the Giants competitive for a long time. I think that losing Wheeler impairs that long term plan.
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way. - SLC
You’re banking on a lot of other variables that greatly impact the future when the Giants could instead just focus on a few variables that impact their chances now.
The variables don’t change much between 2011 and 2012. I’m talking about waiting to pull the trigger for just a half-season.
All projections seemed to indicate the Giants came into this season with the pieces to contend. No reason to think that April changed that fact.
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way. - SLC
But Option 3 disregards a WIN NOW! philosophy
which the Giants so clearly believe. They are built on pitching. Pitching doesn’t last forever (health, effectiveness). This is their window. They have to go for it while they still can.
That kind of urgency doesn’t usually yield good results. The major parts are in place for the next couple of years. 2011 is not a make it or break it year.
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way. - SLC
Well, until they draft and develop the next Lincecum & Cain
they have to ride the current Lincecum & Cain, and there’s absolutely no reason to expect that they’ll have them pitching as fantastic as they have been for the next 3-5 years.
Another 7+ WAR season from Lincecum is never reasonable to expect. To assume he can put up numbers like last year for the next couple years is reasonable. Cain, I think, is about as known a quantity as pitchers can be.
Assuming there are no catastrophic injuries to either, we can expect them to play through to free agency at a high level.
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way. - SLC
I’m not normally for trading for rentals. I think Reyes is a special case. He’s awesome AND playing a position of need. Opportunities like this don’t normally come up.
Brandon Crawford: Your SF Giants 2012 Opening Day starting SS?
If one of the major concerns for the Giants going forward is the continued ability of their starters to stay healthy and pitch effectively, does it really make sense to trade away the guy that’s most likely to reinforce the starting rotation in a couple years?
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way. - SLC
Who’s to say in 3 years our strategy isn’t completely different, and we are a juggernaut on offense (Reyes/Pablo/Belt/Posey) with 3 front line starters (Timmy/Cain/Madbum) with below average 4/5 starters. Those teams tend to do well too.
Brandon Crawford: Your SF Giants 2012 Opening Day starting SS?
You may be right
But those names don’t exactly sound like an offensive juggernaut. It’s a possibility, but not a likely one.
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way. - SLC
Both Pablo and Reyes have had 5+ WAR seasons. Posey would have had a 5 WAR year if he played all year at catcher last year. People project Belt to be great, I don’t see why that’s not an offensive juggernaut.
Brandon Crawford: Your SF Giants 2012 Opening Day starting SS?
Bear in Mind
My argument is considering the contigency of Reyes only around for 2011. If we can get 5 years of Reyes for Wheeler, that’s fantastic.
But, if you take both Reyes AND Wheeler out of the equation, the situation isn’t nearly as optimistic.
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way. - SLC
Bear in Mind
Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.
Bobo!
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
Funny how people associate the mind with the brain.
Giants 2010 in review: One Jerry Garcia bobblehead, one world championship. Questions?
Makes more sense than the pancreas.
Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.
Not to those who question its existance.
Giants 2010 in review: One Jerry Garcia bobblehead, one world championship. Questions?
I wanna see its birth certificate
These are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others. -Groucho Marx
What a trip.
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
Fair enough.
Then the 2 picks from the draft would have to make up at least 1/2 the value of Wheeler, to make the trade worthwhile.
I’m actually semi-confident in Sabean’s ability to draft players, which makes me more inclined to trading Wheeler too.
Brandon Crawford: Your SF Giants 2012 Opening Day starting SS?
My big question
Is whether they can still make smart draft picks while the team contends. Sure they did great drafting Posey, Lincecum, Bum, Wheeer, etc, but those were all high draft positions. It’s harder to miss.
When they draft closer to the bottom of the first round, the likelyhood of drafting future major leaguers drops.
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way. - SLC
That’s a good point, but Romo/Wilson/J Sanchez/Belt were all non-first round picks.
Brandon Crawford: Your SF Giants 2012 Opening Day starting SS?
right
that’s accounted for in the relative value of draft picks.
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
Those $$$ values assume all GM’s are the same. If your GM drafts poorly, then the picks got back for letting Reyes go would be less valuable.
Since I feel like Sabean (and his scouts) is an above average drafter, I value those picks higher.
Brandon Crawford: Your SF Giants 2012 Opening Day starting SS?
for everyone who says sabes doesn't draft well in the 20s
Matt Cain. Sabean would have to draft 10 guys in the 20s who never make the majors to fall below the average, just because of Matt Cain.
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
no they're not
the only player under contract in 2013 is on Barrold von Zitenhousen
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
Probably
But this would be the year to do it. Very deep draft with regards to pitching.
Proud member of the cesspool of ethical bankruptcy known as the McC.
Proud adoptive parent of Brett Bochy, he's my boy now Bruce!
by Giant Torture on May 4, 2011 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lzpk5dMhVE4
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Brian Lawrence
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
SF_Giants San Francisco Giants
Guillermo Mota leads all National League relievers this year with 19.2IN pitched. He is 2-0 2.29ERA with 3BB & 10Ks on the season. #SFGiants
Gigante. Campeón. Pumpkin. Andrés Torres.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
Tied for the team's Win lead!
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way. - SLC
though
wasn’t owlcroft a little right? didn’t he hate Casilla and defend Mota?
Gigante. Campeón. Pumpkin. Andrés Torres.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
Hmm, maybe...
I definitely remember the Casilla hate and he probably pointed out that Mota was certainly more capable of being average… hmm, but no-no I stand by my ironic shouting.
I thought we should keep all 3 over (Ramirez being the third) over Kroon. Mota to a lesser extent, though.
by kingofthacove on May 4, 2011 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions
I was in this boat
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
I think he started out last year with a good ERA, but only decent peripherals.
Brandon Crawford: Your SF Giants 2012 Opening Day starting SS?
Wordy picture is wordy!
Rec’d.
"That’s the sort of pitch that Lincecum throws several times a game — the sort of pitch that made Satchel Paige say: 'I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain’t been seen by this generation.' Lincecum threw 10 or 15 generation pitches on Thursday." -Joe Posnanski
Et tu, Ribe?
Ken_Rosenthal Ken Rosenthal
Hope for #SFGiants? DeRosa just told me he is pain-free. “First time in 2 yrs I’m seeing light at end of tunnel.” #MLB
Sliding DeRosa in at 3B and benching Tejada would make me feel a lot better.
Gigante. Campeón. Pumpkin. Andrés Torres.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
So much this.
"That’s the sort of pitch that Lincecum throws several times a game — the sort of pitch that made Satchel Paige say: 'I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain’t been seen by this generation.' Lincecum threw 10 or 15 generation pitches on Thursday." -Joe Posnanski
Et tu, Ribe?
Extremely well played, sir!
Baseball players are smarter than football players. How often do you see a baseball team penalized for too many men on the field?
Don't get your hopes up
DeRosa has a shelf life of a week or two.
Proud member of the cesspool of ethical bankruptcy known as the McC.
Proud adoptive parent of Brett Bochy, he's my boy now Bruce!
by Giant Torture on May 4, 2011 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions
You'd really trust him to slide without hurting himself again?
by DodgerFanInPackerLand on May 4, 2011 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Just make sure you slide DeRosa in feet first.
Currently stifling the bacon, the world.
by howtheyscored on May 4, 2011 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions
I feel like I’ve heard hi say this before. He definitely seems like a positive guy. I won’t believe it until I see him start a few games with decent motion, arm and ABs.
Please don't cut Ishikawa! 2009 Tops All-Star Rookie and World Champ 2010!
The only way I'd believe this
Is if DeRosa plays about two whole seasons without getting injured, which would just about take him to retirement.
Proud member of the cesspool of ethical bankruptcy known as the McC.
Proud adoptive parent of Brett Bochy, he's my boy now Bruce!
by Giant Torture on May 4, 2011 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions
I think DeRosa's approach (fielding and hitting) is just above average.
I am rooting for him to actually contribute, but I don’t think he can.
walk towards the light, Mark!
walk towards the light.
"There was no torture in the end. Only rapture." - Mike Krukow
2010 Giants: World Series Champs
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on May 4, 2011 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Is that the same pain-free feeling he had in spring training?
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way. - SLC
by mhad on May 4, 2011 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Wrecked
Flap flap
Proud member of the cesspool of ethical bankruptcy known as the McC.
Proud adoptive parent of Brett Bochy, he's my boy now Bruce!
by Giant Torture on May 4, 2011 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions
This one is more numb than that one.
Currently stifling the bacon, the world.
by howtheyscored on May 4, 2011 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions
PUT HIM IN!
PUT HIM IN!
oh wait,still on DL. /sigh
The only people for me are the mad ones. The ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars. ~Inspire Me
So I'm playing Baseball Mogul 2010, and Barry Bonds is a free agent in 1989.
Apparently the Pirates wanted nothing to do with his arbitration costs after a 45 HR/45 2B season.
by DodgerFanInPackerLand on May 4, 2011 2:18 PM PDT reply actions
I thought about it.
But I decided to see which AI team would take the plunge. Ended up being Baltimore.
by DodgerFanInPackerLand on May 4, 2011 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions
He's in the orange and black!.
Gigante. Campeón. Pumpkin. Andrés Torres.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
So he is.
And actually, a 3-4-5 of Eddie Murray, Barry Bonds and Fred Lynn ain’t shabby.
by DodgerFanInPackerLand on May 4, 2011 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Giants will win today!!
I’m optimistic! If they win, secure a .500 road trip. If they win the final 2, that would be great. 6-4 trip.
I have faith.
The only people for me are the mad ones. The ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars. ~Inspire Me
I also have faith.
The Giants are a good baseball team.
"Career potential: situational lefty." Situation: Ragnarok, bases loaded, Odin at the plate. You know who's getting the call.
-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler
then you need more painkillers
The only people for me are the mad ones. The ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars. ~Inspire Me
Before I hit the gym.
SI_JonHeyman Jon Heyman
Jose reyes not about to be traded to SF. “Nothing to it,” 1 person says. plus, #sfgiants gm sabean hates dealing prospects
Just in time for the GDT!
"That’s the sort of pitch that Lincecum throws several times a game — the sort of pitch that made Satchel Paige say: 'I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain’t been seen by this generation.' Lincecum threw 10 or 15 generation pitches on Thursday." -Joe Posnanski
Et tu, Ribe?
no wonder he hates dealing prospects.
every time he looks, there are none. /rimshot on 1995-2005 minor league teams
The only people for me are the mad ones. The ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars. ~Inspire Me
he really does though
everyone points to the AJ trade, and forgets that none of the other pitchers he’s traded ever turned out to be any good.
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
well upgrading offensively at catcher isn't a BAD thing
actually, if you have good offense from your catcher, it’s a really good thing
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
Deivi Cruz, Marquis Grissom and Michael Tucker all got significant playing time that year.
Obviously, the Giants didn’t trust Torrealba, but they had more pressing areas of need.
I still don’t know why they let Jose Cruz, Jr. walk. I kinda blacked out during that offseason.
Just another Mychael Urban "inside Source" special
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
Kudos, You are a sick, sick man, but you are very good at it -- wcw
Barry Zito likes Jose Reyes.
"That’s the sort of pitch that Lincecum throws several times a game — the sort of pitch that made Satchel Paige say: 'I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain’t been seen by this generation.' Lincecum threw 10 or 15 generation pitches on Thursday." -Joe Posnanski
Et tu, Ribe?
THIS ABSOLUTELY MEANS THE TRADE IS A GO
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
Matt Kemp OPSing .500
in May
Can't spell "Colletti" without LOL.
Good thing I dealt him for Adrian Gonzalez late April.
Brandon Crawford: Your SF Giants 2012 Opening Day starting SS?
Yahoo! is only showing two players in the lineup today for LA.
I’m guessing that can’t be helping!
by DodgerFanInPackerLand on May 4, 2011 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions
The Rays just DFA’d Felipe Lopez. He can probably still play D, let’s claim him.
Life is not about this Dirty Sanchez
we've been over this
Lopez is Tejada without as much upside.
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
Oh, hey.
Just back from my lunch with a famous record producer.
NOT Bruce Dickenson.
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
Were there cow bells?
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Brian Lawrence
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
WHAT DOES 'NOT' MEAN TO YOU??
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
IT DOESN'T MATTER
YOU ALWAYS NEED MOAR COWBELLS!
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Brian Lawrence
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
IMMIGRANT SONG NEEDS ZERO COWBELL
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
Did you drive your opulent BMW and dine on hand strangled dodo bird?
"Career potential: situational lefty." Situation: Ragnarok, bases loaded, Odin at the plate. You know who's getting the call.
-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler
No, I walked.
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
I can now comfirm that satyricrash is not, in fact, Miguel Tejada
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
Kudos, You are a sick, sick man, but you are very good at it -- wcw
What about the hand strangled dodo bird?
"Career potential: situational lefty." Situation: Ragnarok, bases loaded, Odin at the plate. You know who's getting the call.
-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler
YOU ARE OBSESSED!
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
LOOK THERE ISN'T A LOT GOING ON IN MY LIFE
"Career potential: situational lefty." Situation: Ragnarok, bases loaded, Odin at the plate. You know who's getting the call.
-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler
shades of Quincy
Proud papa to: Bill Schlough, Senior Vice President and Chief Information Officer, aka the IT guy.
Your mom's a girl
HA HA
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
MAN.
That would be fun.
Now I wanna meet Rick Rubin.
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
well who was it? Devin Townsend?
does he count as “famous”?
These are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others. -Groucho Marx
I saw a photo of Rick, he’s lost a lot of weight—looks good.
Giants 2010 in review: One Jerry Garcia bobblehead, one world championship. Questions?
did he shave?
That beard alone had to weigh twelve pounds
These are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others. -Groucho Marx
Damn. I only wanna meet fat Rick Rubin.
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
WOW
He does look tiny now.
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
Rick Rubin fights the Persians atThermopylae
These are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others. -Groucho Marx
Rick Reuschel as Chef Boyardee
Charlie Hayes ate my homework
by glenallen hill's waterpipe on May 4, 2011 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Rubin produced all of the RHCP biggest records, right?
btw- RHCP rock. That is all.
The only people for me are the mad ones. The ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars. ~Inspire Me
Yeah, but he’s worked with a lot of important artists as well.
Giants 2010 in review: One Jerry Garcia bobblehead, one world championship. Questions?
Johnny Cash and Linkin Park, in fact!
Charlie Hayes ate my homework
by glenallen hill's waterpipe on May 4, 2011 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions
The Geto Boys!
oh, and Slayer and Metallica and System of a Down
These are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others. -Groucho Marx
I didn’t realized he worked with the Geto Boys. They’re some of my favorite misogynists.
Giants 2010 in review: One Jerry Garcia bobblehead, one world championship. Questions?
remember that one good album they had?
Rubin produced it
These are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others. -Groucho Marx
Andrew Dice Clay
also worked with Rubin, also a charming misogynist.
just found out: Rubin is working with ZZ Top on their 2011 release.
Hope there’s a good video!
/MTV’d
Charlie Hayes ate my homework
by glenallen hill's waterpipe on May 4, 2011 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions
This might have been the most on topic thread in recent memory.
Brandon Crawford: Your SF Giants 2012 Opening Day starting SS?
fit the thread topics to the zeitgest
Proud papa to: Bill Schlough, Senior Vice President and Chief Information Officer, aka the IT guy.
Your mom's a girl
apparently everyone is on their good behavior.
drats.
Charlie Hayes ate my homework
by glenallen hill's waterpipe on May 4, 2011 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Not when you factor in the subthreads that were removed.
Currently stifling the bacon, the world.
by howtheyscored on May 4, 2011 3:18 PM PDT up reply actions
/shift-A
Someone recap this thread for me.
I'm still in the old thread.
"IT'S POSEY, YOU IDIOT." - Jon Miller
"Chop. The Chopster. Ms Chopness. La Picadita." - gallo del cielo
Clayton Tanner, the Flying Squirrel!
Third Street Kings | Nine Shot First
by walkoff baltimore chop on May 4, 2011 2:52 PM PDT reply actions
Okay
I'm still in the old thread.
"IT'S POSEY, YOU IDIOT." - Jon Miller
"Chop. The Chopster. Ms Chopness. La Picadita." - gallo del cielo
Clayton Tanner, the Flying Squirrel!
Third Street Kings | Nine Shot First
by walkoff baltimore chop on May 4, 2011 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Wheeler
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Brian Lawrence
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
NOT WHEELER OR BELT DAMMIT
I'm still in the old thread.
"IT'S POSEY, YOU IDIOT." - Jon Miller
"Chop. The Chopster. Ms Chopness. La Picadita." - gallo del cielo
Clayton Tanner, the Flying Squirrel!
Third Street Kings | Nine Shot First
by walkoff baltimore chop on May 4, 2011 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions
My hand smells like catfood.
And my cat’s breath no longer smells like ass.
Currently stifling the bacon, the world.
by howtheyscored on May 4, 2011 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Also, my window was left open the whole time, so I get to read the deleted nascent political discussion, like I’m a big shot like Grant or whoever.
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
I read this as
“What should be my goats for next year?”
I was going to expound on the virtues of pygmy goats as a fun and safe family pet. Now, I’ll just have to say get a haircut and a real job, fuck bitches and get money, son. Damn.
These are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others. -Groucho Marx
Goal: "to be the nice HR lady"
“and not the old troll-like ones I’ve met on the other side of the campus…”
My goals for next year:
1. Obey the commands of my prospective employer.
"Career potential: situational lefty." Situation: Ragnarok, bases loaded, Odin at the plate. You know who's getting the call.
-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler
Especially if they are robot overlords
These are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others. -Groucho Marx
Least favorite part of my job. I’d rather do peer reviews of my cow orkers.
Giants 2010 in review: One Jerry Garcia bobblehead, one world championship. Questions?
at least then
You can write “…is a real shithead” without reflecting negatively on yourself.
These are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others. -Groucho Marx
Looking to procreate....
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
Kudos, You are a sick, sick man, but you are very good at it -- wcw
I’ll let you know later
"There was no torture in the end. Only rapture." - Mike Krukow
2010 Giants: World Series Champs
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on May 4, 2011 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Map of the day
"Lee pitches...Renteria hits a high drive, deep left-center field, David Murphy going back, he's on the warning track—it is...go-one!"
It’s a map of the percentage of the vote that the New Democratic Party received in each constituency in Canada on Monday. Darker means more. If you make it larger you can see the legend.
"Lee pitches...Renteria hits a high drive, deep left-center field, David Murphy going back, he's on the warning track—it is...go-one!"
you guys have a NEW Democratic Party?
We have the shitty Old Democratic Party
These are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others. -Groucho Marx
El Person is an American
one of the kind of American who thinks Canada is better
Dad of Ryan Rohlinger: world champion.
McDonald's stores have little maple leafs inside the logo
How could it not be better?
"Lee pitches...Renteria hits a high drive, deep left-center field, David Murphy going back, he's on the warning track—it is...go-one!"
Better isn’t the right word. Maybe “better prioritized”. and “Better at not having former confederate states”
Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.
/Quebec’d
Charlie Hayes ate my homework
by glenallen hill's waterpipe on May 4, 2011 3:36 PM PDT up reply actions
LOL @ sad Nordiques fans
These are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others. -Groucho Marx
What is it about now-relocated Quebec-based teams and abstract logos? The Nords and the Expos both were like that.
"Lee pitches...Renteria hits a high drive, deep left-center field, David Murphy going back, he's on the warning track—it is...go-one!"
Frenchiness?
Charlie Hayes ate my homework
by glenallen hill's waterpipe on May 4, 2011 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Whatever.
We’re fun because we’re dysfunctional.
"Career potential: situational lefty." Situation: Ragnarok, bases loaded, Odin at the plate. You know who's getting the call.
-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler
Wait a minute - percentage of population?
Of each … county? Without taking into account population density?
Dad of Ryan Rohlinger: world champion.
Percentage of the vote by constituency.
"Lee pitches...Renteria hits a high drive, deep left-center field, David Murphy going back, he's on the warning track—it is...go-one!"
I don’t know what that means. All I’m seeing is rural Sasketchewan and Alberta being dark red.
Dad of Ryan Rohlinger: world champion.
Alberta’s light. I think they say Alberta’s the Texas of Canada.
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
That's from Calgary, Alberta, Canada
These are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others. -Groucho Marx
It goes British Columbia-Alberta-Saskatchewan-Manitoba-Ontario-Quebec.
Saskatchewan is the NDP’s traditional heartland, but they haven’t won a seat there since 2000.
"Lee pitches...Renteria hits a high drive, deep left-center field, David Murphy going back, he's on the warning track—it is...go-one!"
That means that a lot of people (in relative terms) there voted for the NDP.
"Lee pitches...Renteria hits a high drive, deep left-center field, David Murphy going back, he's on the warning track—it is...go-one!"
What the hell am I looking at?
Other than Canada, I mean.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, future CF for the World Champion San Francisco Giants.
I’ve always wanted to visit Montreal.
"Career potential: situational lefty." Situation: Ragnarok, bases loaded, Odin at the plate. You know who's getting the call.
-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler
/ POLITICAL FLAG
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
/REPLY FAIL!!
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
DUH
that wasn’t a flag anyways…IT WAS A MAP!!!
FtF: Welcome to Opposite Season!
McC: Don't get it? Try the McWiki wiki.
no we
need wheeler after were done with zito then our rotation will be full homegrown
and we could use zitos money to sign 2 quality hitters
We are going to use Zito's money to keep Timmy/Cain
Brandon Crawford: Your SF Giants 2012 Opening Day starting SS?
This
We aren’t going to be able to sign a power hitter through FA for a long time. We need to find one in the draft.
yeah lets
hope lincecum takes 9 mill per year like 2010
The Giants future is now
while they have this rotation. Trade Wheeler for Reyes…particularly if Wheeler is more Tim Alderson than Tim Lincecum
I’m not saying Wheeler IS Lincecum, but he’s throwing a lot better than Alderson did before we traded him.
Brandon Crawford: Your SF Giants 2012 Opening Day starting SS?
Comcast
Is there a point in time when my “promotions” will stop expiring and my monthly bill will remain the same?
okay
why isn’t Ross starting against a lefty?
He murders LHP, and not in some dumb “oh he’s hit them slightly better over the last two seasons” fashion.
Mark DeRosa, still existing.
An extremely rough and ready approximation of Wheeler's value
I quickly looked at the HS pitchers drafted in the top 10 between 1995 and 2005 (any more recent and I’m not giving them time to reach the majors properly). There are 20. I looked at their WAR in the first 6 years (representing their value to their clubs before free agency) – figures taken by looking at Fangraphs and adding quickly&approximately in my head, so I hope I didn’t mess up too bad).
Mark Rogers – n/a (went to college, still considered top prospect)
Homer Bailey – 6 (extrapolated)
John Danks – 18 (extrapolated)
Chris Gruler – 0
Client Everts – 0
Zack Greinke – 27
Gavin Floyd – 11
Colt Griffin – 0
Mike Stodolka – - 0
Matt Harrington – 0
Matt Wheatland – 0
Joe Torres – 0
Josh Beckett – 15
Josh Girdley – 0
Bobby Bradley – 0
Geoff Goetz – 0
Jon Garland – 15
John Patterson – 6
Matt White – 0
Kerry Wood – 20
20 players – 19 if we exclude Mark Rogers.
Average 6.2 WAR. SSS, obviously. Interestingly, you tend to get a very good pitcher or one that doesn’t make the majors at all, probably pointing to a lot of blown out arms. But point being, top 10 high school picks aren’t just lottery tickets.
I’m a strong believer in moving future value into the present, while we have the spine of the team. But there are much, much more efficient ways of doing that then swapping a 6 win prospect for a max 3 win rental, especially if the 3 wins are contingent on a return to form/durability not seen in 3 years.
by sarf_london_niner on May 4, 2011 3:56 PM PDT reply actions
3 wins in a year of contention is worth more than 6 WAR spread out over 6 years.
With that said, I have a feeling 2 years after their draft year, Wheeler is on a better path than half those guys.
Brandon Crawford: Your SF Giants 2012 Opening Day starting SS?
yeah he has too much of a track record
you’d have to look at pitchers who were at about the same prospect ranking at the same age, and how they did.
Of course, that’s all relative too.
Pitchers who performed comparably at the same age/level?
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
It’s a maximum of 3 wins, assuming Reyes stays healthy, hits like he hasn’t in 3 years, hasn’t lost a step on his fielding as a result of the injuries, and assuming that the Giants would otherwise have a 0 WAR shortstop all season (which requires Fontenot and Tejada to be 0 WAR players and there to be no other cheap SS alternative). If any of those conditions don’t hold, it’s less than 3 wins.
But if they do hold, giving up Wheeler for Reyes would be the same thing as paying a 3 WAR player 6 WAR money – i.e. equivalent to offering Juan Uribe a one year, $24m contract. This is what I mean by there being much more efficient ways of improving your team.
by sarf_london_niner on May 4, 2011 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions
apparently you didn't see his '09 numbers pre injury
dude is a legit 5-6 win SS.
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
He was on course for a 4 WAR season in 09 – SSS learly, but stats were slightly below the previous three years. Still very good of course, just not 5-6.
Dude certainly WAS a legit 5-6 WAR SS in 2006 to 208. Whether he is today is unproven – neatly, he’s played exactly 162 games since returning full time, for 4.2 WAR.
I did ignore the value of draft picks, you are quite right – but then draft value drops very quickly in baseball by the time you get to picks 25-50, especially once you take into account signing bonuses (each pick costs about $1m).
You ignored the salary implications – Reyes’ salary cost per win is far higher than Wheeler’s, potentially enormously so. Reyes 3 wins (let’s keep running with that assumption) would cost $6m – Danks’ 18 will cost about $20m, Greinke’s 27 cost $14m, Floyd’s 11 cost $9m etc. That’s a few million saving that can be used to buy another win.
At the very least, the salary difference offsets the value of the draft picks – in all likelihood, the salary cost is probably a marginally larger factor.
by sarf_london_niner on May 4, 2011 5:13 PM PDT up reply actions
and there's no more efficient way
to improve by 3 wins this year.
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
plus
you’re ignoring the value of draft picks
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
Couple things
Is Brandon Crawford really not going to be all that and a bag of chips? I was thinking he was our SS of the future…but then again I think a lot of things. Also when is he due to come up to the majors? Not any time soon? Then I say go with Reyes, although it is true he would be an idiot to not test the market but hey maybe he’d like it here. I sure as hell know I’d love him here…
Reyes
Sanchez
Ross
Posey
Sandoval
Huff
Belt
Burrell
Lincecum/Cain/Sanchez/Bumgarner
Hey, I can dream
My criteria for a lead off hitter
1) Has a glove named Lucille.
2) Gets on base real good.
3) Sees lots of pitches.
4) Steals bases.
5) Is under 27.
I.e. Reyes doesn’t really have the look. That said, … Miguel Tejada.
If you can't sign a hitter to play in China Basin, trade a pitcher for a hitter and then sign another pitcher... why is that such a difficult concept to grasp?
6) If he can drag bunt a bit, ignore 1 through 5.
by sarf_london_niner on May 4, 2011 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Reyes
All Star, Plus defense and offense. Giants need a SS for the future. Would I trade a top prospect for him? Yes. Here is why.
Giants need a long term SS solution. Reyes will get 6+ yrs 18-25+ mil a year. Giants might be a player for this. I want to know now if he has the personality we need. Guys who work hard no matter what. We gave Rowand big money. While he has not always produced, he ALWAYS worked hard. I would rather trade 1 good prospect and realize Reyes is not for the future, than not and sign another Barry Zito contract around our necks.
There are few suiters for Reyes anyways. Lots of teams in payroll crunch, multiple guys now soaking 18-20 mil contracts. The types of teams left might not have a spot at SS for him. Yankees? If they want Jeter to DH maybe. Dodgers? No payroll plus a SS already Mets? Payroll got them Cubs? Have a guy Angels? Not sure Twins? Broke already Colorado? LOL Red Sox? Maybe but how much can they really spend?
Giants are a team in need. They have Derosa and Rowand soaking 18 mil a year this year and Rowand 12 next. Giants can eat Rowand 1 more year and have 18 mil a year for him without increasing long term payroll. Signing him is possible. I would trade a little future for financial insurance. Drafting prospects and developing is easier than finding 100 million dollars.
Time to repeat in '11!
Oh yea tejada off the books next year too
Which is 12 million off the books next year, and 24 the year after…..
Time to repeat in '11!
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