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Around SBN: Full Coverage of 2012 Coke 600

5 weeks until the MLB draft - let's talk prospects


The MLB draft is now only 5 weeks away.  The bad news is that the Giants don't draft until the #29 pick in the first round (and then have overall picks #49, #86, #116, #147, and #177 in rounds 1-S thru 5).  The good news is that this year's draft is very deep in 2nd-, 3rd-, and 4th-tier prospects, so we should be able to get at least 2 very exciting prospects with our first 2 picks and 4 more very solid prospects with our next 4 picks.   I've been looking at a ton of videos and reading as much data and reports as I can find on prospects over the past 4 weeks, but this is still a work-in-progress for me as I do more research and watch a lot more games on TV and videos on the internet.  Feel free to make comments on why my prospects suck, but be specific in your criticism.  Feel free to pipe in with questions and with suggestions of your own favorite prospects - I'd love to be pointed in the direction of other prospects that I can check out before teh draft.  I'm not sure if we can keep this fanpost active enough to last the rest of the time between now and when the draft begins, but we can always start new fanposts (making liberal use of cut-and-pasting) as the need arises.  Between all of us on the MCC, I figure that we should be able to come up with a very solid draft board by the time June 6th rolls around.

For the sake of brevity (yeah, right!), I've left off a bunch of guys that I rank higher than most of the guys on my list, because I'm sure that they'll be long gone when we draft near the end of each round.  The following guys are the ones that I like and that I believe will likely be available to us when our first 6 turns come up.  I do expect that all but a few of them will be gone by the end of the 5th round.  Also, as I wrote about last year, I don't buy into the "best player available" strategy of drafting baseball prospects.  Mainly because I don't think that anybody can consistently pinpoint the best baseball player available with any degree of acceptable accuracy - especially once you get past the first 10 picks, or so, and when you start talking about HS prospects.  Therefore, I subscribe to the idea that, other things being equal, a team should seriously consider their future needs, and the type of players that their farm systems have been successful at developing, when drafting.  Things like best player available, signability, and the type of players that fit their home ballparks should also figure into the decision.  In consideration of this, I would rank the Giants needs for this draft in the following order:

1. Pitchers:  The starting pitching down on the farm is awful thin.  The great thing about this is that pretty much all the experts agree with me that this year's draft is incredibly deep in pitchers (and very thin in position players).  I don't think that there's much of a difference between the guy that's going to be the #1 pitcher taken (probably Gerrit Cole) and the guy that's going to be that last pitcher taken in the first round.  I expect that Sabes will allow Tidrow free rein this year, since Barr got position players with the top 3 picks last year.  I think they'll go with college pitchers early and then HS kids later on, unless there's a dark horse HS kid that Tidrow loves when we pick in the first round.  Now, I don't even pretend to know pitching talent anywhere in the remotest neighborhood when compared to Dick Tidrow, so I'll be plenty happy with any pitcher the Giants choose with their first several picks - unless it's an obvious safe pick for the purpose of easy signability.  I list the pitchers that have caught my eye below, but I have no idea if they are Tidrow-approved, so I won't be too upset if the Giants choose other pitchers.  I probably will be displeased if they go with pitching with more than 3 of their first 6 picks, but that all depends on who the pitchers are and who else was still available when they were picked. 

2. Middle Infielders:  We are especially thin at SS, with most prospects being good-field, no-hit guys (or no-field, no-hit guys).  2B is also a problem spot in that most of the top prospects can hit a bit, but their fielding leaves a lot to be desired, and none of them appear to be ready to join the major league club anytime soon.  Certainly, none of them appear to be destined to become impact players at the major league level.  A highly-talented, dynamic-hitting 2B college prospect would fit nicely in the early rounds, and I think that the  Giants will also consider a college SS in the early rounds even though they went with Jurica in the 3rd round last year.  I doubt that they take a MI from the HS ranks in the top 5 rounds unless Francisco Lindor inexplicably falls to #29.

3. Corner OF:  The Giants got more athletic and deeper in CF with last year's draft, but (other than Roger Kieschnick in 2008) they haven't drafted a multi-tool, power-hitting corner OF prospect in the early rounds in the past 5 drafts.  I think that the Giants won't hesitate to take one of the many HS corner OF prospects with their top 3 picks if the guy they like is available.  I don't think that any of the really good college guys will still be available by the time the Giants first pick.

4. 3B:  This is also a very thin position for the Giants down on the farm.  Especially when you consider how weak Gillaspie's defense and power potential are, and how old and clanky Dominguez is.  Unfortunately, this year the college 3B prospects are very thin (unless they want to reach for Jason Esposito in the first round), so they'll likely have to go the HS route or find a college SS to convert to 3B if they want a guy worth drafting in the first several rounds.

5. Catchers:  It would be nice to find a dynamic prospect to eventually spell Buster behind the plate.  I'd hate to see what it's going to do to his body if Bochy trots him out there for 140+ games a year over the next several seasons.  Unfortunately, the best C prospects that will be available when the Giants draft appear to be in the HS ranks this year, so help probably won't be on the way soon.

After the jump are the top 19 guys that I have on my preliminary Giants' draft board.  I've inckuded links to all the good video clips and current stats on each player at the bottom of their entries. 

Star-divide

 

1. Kolten Wong:  LHH, 2B, Un. of Hawaii (5'9", 180) (DOB=10/10/90)
An impact prospect at second base.  Has sneaky speed, and the athleticism, work ethic, and baseball smarts to make a quick and lasting impact as a pro.  He has a very quick bat with above-average power for a 2B.  It's a sweet left handed swing that is very short to the ball and long through the zone, with a very attacking intent. His swing is seemingly effortless, repeatable, and has very few moving parts.  His bat head stays in the strike zone for a very long time, which means he can drive the ball to any field with power - Buster Posey is another guy who has this swing attribute.  He shows a decided knack for barrelling up the ball and driving it.  Wong starts with a stance that is narrow - slightly more than shoulder width - and slightly open.  He rests his bat horzontally on his shoulder, almost perfectly perpindicular to the ground and to the pitcher, with his hands in front of his body and a slight bend in his knees.  His weight is fairly evenly balanced, but with a slight bias towards his back foot.  He triggers his swing with a moderate leg lift, while simultaneously dropping his hands down and lifting his bat to the vertical position and shifting more of his weight to his back foot.  As he brings his front foot down to anchor his front side, he strides about 6 inches toward the mound and about 3 inches toward 3rd base.  As he strides, he begins his powerful hip rotation, but keeps his bat in the vertical positon and his hands still. This causes his hands and bat to separate from his torso.  As his front foot plants, the foot is angled out about 45 degrees, the leg straightens, and his front side remains strong and firm, and provides a pivot point for his hips, upper body and arms to rotate around.  As his hips rotate, his hands move straight towards the ball with no wasted motion, his wrists snap forward powerfully, bringing his bat-head quickly through the hitting zone on a very short path and with a long and smooth follow-through.  All of the elements working together - the separation of the hands from the body, the strong front side, the quick and powerful hip turn, and the strong and complete wrist snap provide the out-sized power for a seemingly effortless swing.  His head stays very much in the same vertical plane, and doesn't twist during the swing which makes for a level and smooth swing.  It's a very good swing, with mechanics that are not likely to go haywire.  The one area where I can see him getting into trouble is if he begins to overstride in order to try and generate more bat-speed or power.  Wong has shown his above-average speed by running a 6.84 sec. 60, and a 4.41 sec. home to first base time.  The former high school running back has a low center of gravity and is powerfully built through the shoulders, hips, butt, and thighs, but that mass doesn't get in his way or make him slow and stiff.  Wong has a surprisingly live and athletic body for his physique.  He will have to watch what he eats in the future, because he will probably have a tendency to gain weight around his middle and butt regions, which could affect his swing.  In the field, Wong has only a slightly above-average range, but an above-average arm at 2B.  A former catcher, he has the quick feet to be tried at SS but his lack of range and arm strength made 2B the much more natural choice.  On the plus side, he is very young for a college junior - he won't turn 21 until this October (making him 5 months younger than the Giants 2009 #1 pick, Zack Wheeler).  He's been hitting over around .400, with excellent power, for most of this college season - as an encore to his eye-opening 2010 Cape Cod Summer League season in which he had a .426 OBP and was named the league MVP. 
Here are his pertinent stats in his last 2 seasons:  http://www.collegesplits.com/cgi-bin/csPlayer.cgi?pl=wong-ko42

2010 Cape Cod:  .341/.426/.452/.878  with AB=135, H=46, 2B=6, 3B=0, HR=3, BB=18 (8.4%), K=13 (11.6%), SB=22 of 29 (76%)
2011 College:  .400/.497/.600/1.097  with AB=140, wOBA=.478, H=56, 2B=7, 3B=3, HR=5, BB=25 (14.8%), K=13 (7.7%), SB=16 of 21 (76%)
vid 1:  live AB vid - 2010 Cape Cod All Star game:  (fixed link)

vid 2:  live games vid - 2010 Cape Cod highlights

vid 3:  BP vid - indoors - Hawaii, Nov. 2010

vid 4:  BP vid - Hawaii, Nov. 2010

vid 5:  BP vid and live AB's - 3/5/11 vs. LMU

vid 6:  Q&A interview vid - Winter 2011

Of all the players that I think will be available at #29, Wong is the guy that I really want the Giants to get.  It shouldn't take much of an overslot deal to sign him - most likely he'll take slightly less than what they paid for Gary Brown at #24 last year.


2. Derek Fisher: LHH, OF, Cedar Crest HS, Lebanon, PA (6'3" 215) (DOB=8/19/93)
Offers an excellent mix of size, lefthanded power and above-average speed.  Fisher excelled in the East Pro Showcase in Lakeland, Fla. in July 2010.  Facing some of the best amateur arms in the country, Fisher hit .600 and ran a 6.6 in the 60, the fifth best time among the more than 200 ballplayers in Lakeland.  Fisher has a tall, but thick frame.  He's especially thick and solid in the thighs, butt and waist area.  He has to be careful that he doesn't "grow" into a 1B-only defender as he matures.  His frame looks like he has the possibility to become really massive in the future if he lets himself go.  Fisher has an upright stance at the plate and starts with his bat close to vertical and close to his ear.  His hands are well above his shoulders and his elbow is high and bent.  His feet are a bit more than shoulder-width apart and his weight is mostly evenly-balanced, maybe a bit more towards his back foot.  He uses a very short stride and a front toe tap as his trigger mechanism, with no further stride after he starts his hands swinging.  He drops his hands to just below shoulder height and brings his bat completely vertical as he taps his front toe, then he starts his forward swing from there.  He has very quick hands and generates a lot of bat-speed, but his bat is long to the ball due to the position of his hands before his swing.  He doesn't have an overly-agressive hip turn, so he stays on the ball well, gets good plate coverage, and can reach the outside pitches.  He does a good job of keeping his hands inside the ball and keeping a strong front-side during his swing.  He also lets the ball come deep to him and doesn't lunge to hit the ball in front of his body.  I imagine that his power must be from left-center to straight away RF, given his somewhat closed stride and weight transfer.  He is probably susceptible to inside fastballs above the waist and breaking balls down towards his back foot.  It's seems like
a very natural and uncomplicated swing to me and should be easy for him to maintain gong forward.  If I could tweak his swing a bit, I'd like to see him move his hands backwards and cock his wrists a bit more before he starts his swing forward, and I'd like to see him keep his weight back a bit longer after his toe tap trigger. 

As an added bonus he's very young, even for a HS player - he won't turn 18 until the middle of August. 
He's a Un. of Virginia commit.
vid 1:  BP vid - in cage, off a tee & hand-tossed - Sept. 2009

vid 2:  BP vid - East Coast Pro - Lakeland, FL July 2010

vid 3:  live AB vid - wood bat 400 ft. HR - Jupiter, FL 11.10.2010

vid 4:  live AB vid - wood bat 400 ft. HR (just foul) - Jupiter, FL 11.10.2010

vid 5:  live AB vid - wood bat opposite field single - Jupiter, FL 11.10.2010

vid 6:  live AB's vid - shot from behind - Jupiter, FL 11.10.2010

I'd like to see the Giants consider Fisher with their 1st round pick - with a healthy overslot deal most likely needed to sign him.


3. Brandon Nimmo:  LHH, RF, East HS, Cheyenne, Wyo. (6'2", 185) (DOB=3/27/93)
Pronounced NIHM-moh.  Bats LH, throws RH.  He is a true 5-tool talent, who can play all 3 OF positions, but has the above-average arm, size, and power potential that profiles best in RF.  He is an excellent athlete, having also starred in football and track in high school.  He has above-average speed, having been clocked at 6.54 sec. in the 60 yard dash, and at under 4.1 sec. in home to 1B times.  Although, I doubt that he develops into a top base-stealing threat in the pros, he should definitely have the tools and ability to steal 20+ bases a season.  Nimmo has a long and lean frame, with sloping shoulders, that projects to easily add mass and strength as he matures.  He has long arms and legs, and a relatively high waist.  His actions on the field are fluid and athletic.  He has a smooth and easy batting stroke that results in loud line-drives ringing off the barrel of his bat.  Nimmo sets up in a fairly wide stance, with bent knees and weight mostly on his back leg.  His stance is very slightly open.  He has a slight bend in his waist.  He keeps his hands well in front of his body, with a high left elbow that is slightly above his shoulder and slighly higher than parallel to the ground.  His bat starts vertical, but his high elbow and wrist-cock cause the head of the bat to point towards the pitcher at about a 20 degree angle off of vertical.  He waggles his body and hands back-and-forth in the box while waiting for the pitch.  He triggers his swing by lifting the heel of his front foot off the ground.  At the same time, he shifts his weight more towards his back foot, twists his hips slightly more closed, and brings his hands slightly back towards the catcher.  He then begins to transfer his weight forward with a small forward step of his front foot directly toward the pitcher.  At the same time, his hips begin to rotate, while his hands and bat remain in place.  As his front foot plants, his toes at about a 30 degree angle with the plate, his knee straightens out and provides a firm front side.  His hips quickly rotate through towards 2B, and his hands flow into the hitting zone with a powerful wrist snap.  His path to the ball is not short, but it's also not long.  He gets good extension with his hands and bat on his follow-through towards RF - doing a good job of not letting his front-side fly open and avoiding the dreaded bat-wrap.  If I could tweak his mechanics a bit, I'd like to see him plant his front foot closer to a 45 degree angle with the plate, and I'd like to get him to get rid of the slight bend in his front leg as he rotates through his swing.  Nimmo generates excellent bat speed and gets very good plate coverage with his swing.  He is not pull-happy - he does a good job of taking the pitches on the outside edge of the plate, keeping his hands inside the ball, and driving them into the gap in LCF with plenty of power.  After tearing the anterior cruciate ligament in his right knee while playing in a HS football game in Sept. 2009, Nimmo sat out the late Fall and Winter months.  The hard work that he put in during the long months of rehab paid off with a stellar 2010 baseball season, the culminated in his winning top recognition and MVP honors during the Summer All-Star showcase games.  His knee fully recovered, he skipped the football season in 2010, but returned for a full season of track, running mainly the 200 meter and 400 meter events.  He ended the season on a great note - winning the state title in the 400 meter dash in a time of 51.45 seconds (the indoor world record is 44.57 seconds).  His best time for the 200m dash was 23.49 sec. and for the 55m dash it was 6.7 sec. (55 meters is 6 inches longer than 60 yards).  Wyoming doesn't have high school baseball, so Nimmo doesn't start playing games until late April when his American Legion league starts up.  Because of that he spent a few days in the middle of April working out for MLB teams in Arizona.  Nimmo appears to have a good head on his shoulder and a good idea on how to play the game.  Here's some of the things that he said during an interview back in Feb. of this year: 
"When I get up there I just want to hit the ball hard, solid, and get a line drive out of it. That’s all I focus on every time up: make good contact and hit a line drive. Power is not something that I ever try to put into my approach. I can hit the ball out, but it just happens – I rarely try to hit a homerun, and when they come they’re normally accidents. I’m more of a doubles and triples kind of guy who tries to get the ball in play and use some of my speed to get me around the bases. I try and stay inside the ball and hit the gaps a lot, particularly left centerfield. I feel that good hitters use all fields, so I try to make good contact when I’m up there and line the ball both the other way and to my pull side. I don’t get upset if I hit it hard for an out because I like to focus on staying on top of the things that I can."
In the same interview he claimed to have drawn close to 60 BB's during the 2010 season, so he appears to have a good eye and knows the importance of getting on base.
He's a Univ. of Arkansas commit. 
vid 1:  live AB vid (Double to RCF) - Tournament of Stars - June 23-25, 2010

vid 2:  live AB vid (strike out) with BP & OF throw drill - Tournament of Stars - June 23-25, 2010

vid 3:  OF throwing drills & BP vid - Under Armour pre-game - August 2010

vid 4:  Live AB's vid - Oct. 2010 Arizona Senior Fall Classic:  

vid 5:  Q & A interview vid - Feb. 2011

vid 6:  3 min. interview vid from Apr. 2011

I'd like to see the Giants consider Nimmo with their 1st round pick - with a healthy overslot deal most likely needed to sign him.


4. Andrew Chafin: LHP, Kent State (6'2" 205) (DOB=6/17/90)
He starred as a freshman reliever in 2009, then injured his elbow at the end of 2009, had Tommy John surgery in the beginning of 2010, and red-shirted the entire 2010 college season.  During his rehab from surgery, Chafin was not allowed to throw breaking balls for nine to 12 months, so he had to develop his changeup out of necessity.  Chafin was held to a strict pitch limit to begin the 2011 season as his coach tried to ease him into the rigors of a starting pitching role.  He responded so well that he's off the limit now and pitching deep into games in almost every start.  Chafin has 2 well above-average pitches (FB, SL) and a vastly improved changeup that is at least average now and has been getting better as the season has progressed.  He has plus command of the FB and SL.  He gets ahead of the hitter with the FB that he hides well and can locate to both sides of the plate.  His FB sits 91-92 mph, touches 94, and has great late life.  His strike out pitch is a plus slider that he throws in the 81-83 mph range.  He has been totally dominant against the mostly lesser competition during Kent State's 1st half schedule, putting up the following stats:  75K & 11 BB in 58 innings (BAA=.178, WHIP=.81, K/9=11.6, BB/9=1.7, ERA=0.78).  Note that Chaffin finally had his first "bad" outing of the year in a game on April 22nd at Buffalo.  It was cold and raining during the game and Chafin lost his great control.  He walked 5, and gave up 4 runs on 3 hits in 5.1 innings.  He did have 8 K's, though.  That one outing more than doubled his earned runs allowed for the year from 3 to 7, and almost doubled his BB's from 7 to 12.  As I noted, the weather was bad, so that might have messed with his grip.  However, Chafin is coming off the TJ surgery and he didn't pitch at all last season, so he could be wearing down a bit as innings pitched starts to get close to 100 innings.  We'll have to keep an eye on his upcoming starts.  As an added plus, Chafin is young for a college draftee - he won't turn 21 until 2 weeks after the draft.  He also has 2 years of college eligibility left after this season, so he has more negotiation leverage than the vast majority of college draftee. 
2011 college stats:  http://www.collegesplits.com/cgi-bin/csPlayer.cgi?pl=chafian42

G=10, GS=9, IP=63.1, IP/St=7.0, ERA=1.28, FIP=2.51, WHIP=.87, BAA=.178, H=39, HR=1, K=83, BB=16, K/9=11.8, BB/9=2.3, K/BB=5.2, HR/9=.14 
vid 1:  live game vid - short compilation - Spring 2011

I'd like to see the Giants to consider Chafin with their 1st round pick - with a slightly overslot deal most likely needed to sign him. 

 


5. Robert Stephenson:  RHP, Alhambra HS, Martinez, Ca (6'2" 185) (DOB=2/24/93)
Stephenson relies heavily on his 90-92 mph fastball, which peaks near 94. That pitch shows late jumping life as it reaches the strike zone. Stephenson adds a 77 mph curve and 74 mph change, both of which show promise but need to be sharpened.  He began his 2011 high school season by throwing back-to-back no-hitters (IP=14, K=32, BB=2, HBP=3).  He has sharpened his stuff since last season.  He has long legs and arms, and a high-waist, on a projectable frame.  He has a loose and athletic pitching motion that exhibits good extension and fairly consistent online landings.  His pitching consistency could probably be improved with a few minor mechanical tweaks.  His FB has recently ticked up to 92-93 mph, and touching 95, with late run.  He is throwing a well above-average CB (78 mph) so far this season, with a 12/6 hard down rotation & bite.  He has a crude straight CHG (78-80 mph) that he rarely throws.
He's a Univ. of Washington commit. 
vid 1:  live game vid - Tournament of Stars - June 23-25, 2010

vid 2:  Warmups vid - AFLAC All-American Classic - August 2010

vid 3:  Warmups vid - AFLAC All-American Classic - August 2010

vid 4:  Interesting personal project video:

I'd like the Giants to consider Stephenson with their 1st round pick - with a slightly overslot deal most likely needed to sign him.


6. Tyler Beede, RHP, Lawrence Academy, Auburn, MA (6'4" 200) (DOB=5/23/93)
He has the arm speed and arm strength that you look for in a kid his age.  He also has an ideal pitcher's frame (long, lean, with a high waist) that projects to easily add more strength and mass as he matures.  He has an easy and loose motion, but I'm not in love with his arm motion behind his back during the first part of his delivery.  He was throwing his FB 92-93 in Summer of 2010.  His command is not always there at this point, but he does show nice shape and depth on his 78 mph curveball.  I notice when looking at his videos that he has a tendency to not stay on top of the ball when he tries to muscle up and throw too hard.  That causes his pitches to flatten out and drop in velocity.  When he stays loose and mechanically sound then he's on top of the ball and it has a nice downward plane with late arm-side movement.  He is young for his HS class, and won't turn 18 until 2 weeks before the draft.  Henry Owens and Mike Kelly have better current stuff, but Beede gets the slight nod over them due to the fact that he's 9 and 10 months younger than those 2 guys.
He is a Vanderbilt commit. 
vid 1:  live game vid - Lawrence Acadamy HS - April 2010

vid 2:  live game vid - Tournament of Stars - June 23-25, 2010

vid 3:  live game vid - Summer Rivalry Classic, East Coast Pro - August 2010

vid 4:  live game vid - Summer Rivalry Classic, East Coast Pro - August 2010

vid 5:  live game vid - AFLAC All-American Classic - San Diego 8.15.10

vid 6: live game vid - AFLAC All-American Classic - San Diego 8.15.10

vid 7:  live game vid - AFLAC All-American Classic - San Diego 8.15.10

I'd like the Giants to consider Beede starting in the 1st round - a slightly overslot deal would likely be needed to sign him.


7. Kyle Smith: RHP, Santaluces HS, Lake Worth, FL (5'11", 170) (DOB=9/10/92)
Smith has a much smaller frame than most, but an advanced feel for pitching.  He has plus command of a FB that sits at 89-91 mph, and has touched 93, with late life and some arm-side run.  He changes speeds and horizontal location on his FB to keeps hitters off-balance.  He has a changeup that is already at least average, with plus potential in the near future. His change shows good arm speed and late sink and fade.   His slurve is currently his best pitch and his out pitch.  It has very good velocity and a hard, tight spin.  It's a big and nasty curveball at times, while at others it acts like a late-breaking slider.  In the future, when his changeup becomes a better pitch, and he gets stronger, I can see him dropping the curve and going with the slider as his main breaking pitch.  As for mechanics, Smith has a fluid, easy, and repeatable motion.  He appears to throw with very little effort.  He throws downhill, with a clean arm circle.  In short, his mechanics remind me a lot of Lincecum's, but without the really long stride.  Some have put a Roy Oswalt tag on him, but I don't see it.  He seems poised and in control on the mound.  He's nimble, quick, and flexible and very athletic, he can more than hold his own at SS (if he wasn't such a good pitcher he would be recruited as a SS), and he also hit a team-best 4 HRs during the regular season.  During his junior season in 2010, Smith hit .446 and stole 16 bases.  This year Smith has pitched and hit his team into the FL state playoffs, going 7-1, with 97 K's in 58.1 innings.  He went 42 consecutive innings without giving up an earned run this year, before finally allowing 1 in his last start, almost doubling his miniscule ERA from 0.13 to 0.24 to close out the regular season.  This was against top-level talent in Florida's highest level league (6A).
He is a Un. of Florida commit.
vid 1:  live game - Under Armour Game, Aug. 2010

vid 2: warmups - Tournament of Stars, June 23, 2010

vid 3:  infield practice - at short stop - Tournament of Stars, June 23, 2010

vid 4: live game - vs. Leonard HS, March 2011

vid 5:  live game - vs. Leonard HS, March 2011

vid 6:  live game - vs. Leonard HS, March 2011

vid 7:  live game - vs. Leonard HS, March 2011

Smith is my sleeper pick for the entire draft - he's very underrated.  I hope that the Giants start considering him as early as their supplemental round pick.


8. Henry Owens, LHP, Edison HS, Hunt. Bch, CA (6'6" 190) (DOB=7/21/92)
He has been sliding down many draft boards this Spring, due to less than stellar results and the lack of any velocity gains.  He has a very skinny and tall frame, with very long arms, legs, and a high waist.  He's never going to add a lot of mass and muscle, but with a good workout program he should be able to add a lot more strength and endurance.  I'm not in love with his mechanics, but he does have an advanced feel for pitching - including an above-average changeup.  When I break down his delivery, it seems to me that his arm, upper-body, and hips are often not well-connected during his delivery.  Sometimes his arm comes through too quickly, and other times it seems too late.  Ideally, you want to fire your hips towards the plate after your front leg lands and then have your arm follow your hips in a connected and smooth sling-shot fashion.  That way your arm is more of a slave to the work of your lower-body.  When I look at Owens it seems to me that he throws too much with just his arm.  Rather then amplifying the work of his hip turn and leg drive, Owens loses momentum by trying to force his arm speed mainly from the motion of his shoulder.  This puts a lot of unnecessary stress on his shoulder and lowers the velocity of his pitches.  Given his height and leverage, if he corrected his mechanics I think that he could be reaching as high as the mid-90s with his FB, instead the 88-91 mph that he typically throws at now.  With his advanced feel for his curveball and changeup, that could make him a very special pitcher in the future.  
He is a Univ. of Miami commit. 
vid 1:  live game - AFLAC All-American Classic - San Diego 8.15.10

vid 2:  live game - vs. J. Serra HS - March 2010

vid 3:  live game - Tournament of Stars - June 23-25, 2010

I'd like the Giants to consider Owens starting in the supplemental round - with a relatively large overslot deal needed to sign him.


9. Michael Kelly, RHP, W. Boca Raton HS, Boynton Bch, FL (6'5" 195) (DOB=9/6/92)
Skinny, but projectable frame with long legs and arms, and a high waist.  This kid isn't done growing.  Throws a 4-seam FB that sits at 91-93 mph, and has often touched 95, this Spring.  It has late life and a nice hop.  His 2-seam FB has plenty of movement, and he's had a tough time keeping it in the strike zone.  He also has a slightly above-average curveball that shows depth and a tight break, and a developing changeup that he rarely throws but does show some feel for when he does.  His mechanics could be improved to give him even more velocity and repeatability in the future.  I don't like that he doesn't get full extension with his arm behind his back at the beginning of his delivery.  This keeps his arm from forming a smooth and full arm-circle during the delivery.  I think that is also why he sometime short-arms the ball and ends up leading with his elbow.  This results in him not always keeping on top of the ball, getting a downward plane, and getting full extension.  On the plus side, he throws with a loose and easy motion, showing very good arm-speed.  His flaws are very correctable, and it's encouraging that he can throw with the velocity that he does despite his mechanical flaws and lack of physical maturity.  Kelly is an outstanding athlete.  When he's not pitching he mans 3B for his team (a favorite to win that Florida state championship at the end of April) and ended the regular season with a .382 average and 4 HRs. His teammates include top-rated SS Tyler Greene who is widely predicted to go in the first 2 rounds of the upcoming MLB draft.  Kelly ended the regular season with a 5-1 record, a 1.28 ERA, and 68 K's in 43.2 innings of work.  Kelly has pitched the past 2 seasons at the top level of Florida HS baseball, against the biggest and best teams, and for one of the best teams in the state.
He is a Univ. of Florida commit. 
vid 1:  warmups - AFLAC All-American Classic - San Diego 8.15.10

vid 2:  warmups - AFLAC All-American Classic - San Diego 8.15.10

I'd like the Giants to consider Kelly  starting in the supplemental round - with the idea that a decent overslot deal would be needed to sign him.


10. Anthony Meo: RHP, Coastal Carolina Univ. (6'2", 185) (DOB=2/19/90)
Meo has a power arm.  He's been throwing his FB in the 94-  mph range this Spring, often touching up to 97 mph.  Meo's pitching delivery looks a lot like that of Roy Halladay's.  Meo stays a bit more bent at the waist than Halladay.  I'd love for Meo to start developing a cut FB - which is Halladay's bread-and-butter pitch.  Right now Meo has 1 plus pitch (a hard-breaking SL that he throws around 87-88 mph), 1 above-average pitch (a heavy FB that he throws around 93-95 mph), 1 average pitch (a straight changeup with a bit of late drop that he throws around  mph), and 1 below-average "show-me" pitch (a curveball ).  Meo would be ranked even higher if not for a lack of life on his FB (it remains pretty straight), his lack of elite strikeout rates (generally in the 8.9 K/9 range), and his lack of overall command with his pitches (as displayed in his BB rates and his high number of WP's and HBP's).
2010 college: 

G=18, GS=16, IP=96.2, IP/St=5.2, ERA=2.61, WHIP=1.2, BAA=.230, H=67, 2B=14, 3B=0, HR=6, K=94, BB=34, K/9=8.8, BB/9=3.2, K/BB=2.8, HR/9=.49
2010 Cape Cod:

G=, GS=5, IP=, IP/St=, ERA=3.12, WHIP=1.09, BAA=., H=, 2B=, 3B=, HR=, K=, BB=, K/9=, BB/9=, K/BB=, HR/9=
2011 college: http://www.collegesplits.com/cgi-bin/csPlayer.cgi?pl=meo--an42
G=10, GS=10, IP=63.3, IP/St=6.3, ERA=2.84, FIP=3.69, WHIP=1.34, BAA=.256, H=61, HR=3, K=63, BB=24, K/9=8.95, BB/9=3.4, K/BB=2.6, HR/9=.43
vid 1:  live game, front view - Cape Cod League - June 2010

vid 2:  live game, side view - Cape Cod League - 6.27.2010

vid 3:  slomo warmup pitch - Cape Cod League - June 2010

I'd like the Giants to consider Meo starting in the supplemental round - a slightly overslot deal would likely be needed to sign him

 


11. Jake Hager: RHH, SS, Sierra Vista HS, Las Vegas, NV (6'2", 185) (DOB=3/4/93)
His coach claims that he can play the game with the top HS players in the country, and that his character and makeup are off the charts. He's a great team guy and plays hard every single play.  Hager has a long and lean frame that is projectable.  He has added mass and girth to his frame between his Junior and Senior seasons - especially in the butt and thigh areas.  He has room to add mass and strength in the upper body also.  He is a very athletic, potential 4-tool player (the arm is only average) who is surprisingly fast getting out of the box and around the basepaths.  He displays clean, quick, and loose actions in the field and at the bat.  At the plate he shows very good bat speed, with strong and quick hands, and advanced bat control.  Hager shows a simple and easy swing, with very few moving parts, so it should be repeatable.  He can drive the ball with power from the left fieild line to the right-center gap.  He has a balanced hitting stance, loose upper body and swing, and strong hands.  He starts with a slightly wide and fairly erect stance that is slightly open.  His hands are held high (slightly above shoulder level) and in front of his body.  His right elbow is bent and behind him, held at shoulder level.  His bat is mostly vertical, although he does let the head lay a bit behind his body.  He waggles his bat side-to-side a bit, although his lower-body remains quite still, as he waits for the pitch.  His weight is actually biased onto his front leg and foot before the pitch.  His legs remain almost totally straight throughout his whole swing.  Only when he is rotating his hips and driving through with his backside does he bend his back knee at an appreciable angle.  He triggers his swing by pushing his weight onto his back leg by lifting his foot slightly off the ground.  At the same time, he begins to rotate his hips closed, raising his back elbow higher above his shoulder, and cocking his wrists even more (so that the barrel of his bat points toward the pitcher).  Slater then brings his front foot forward about 6 inches, but not forward, so that his stance is fully closed and taps the ground with his toes (leaving his heel off the ground).  That triggers the uncoiling of his body and the forward portion of his swing.  He twist on his front foot so that it is pointing at a 45 degree angle, stomps his front heel into the ground, straightens his front leg and locks his knee to provide a firm front side.  As his heel plants, he fires his hips through (they end up facing the pitcher) and his upper-body, hands, and bat follows.  He gets a very powerful wrist-snap, and his bat is not the quickest to the ball - although I wouldn't describe his swing as long.  He does a very good job of keeping his head still and eyes focused on the ball.  I would like to see him let the ball get a little deeper into body before he makes impact.  He needs to trust his quick hands and shorten his swing just a bit to get even more power.  I like the fact that he doesn't overstride towards the pitcher in order to try and increase his bat-speed and power.  From Hager's videos below, it seems to me that he has good plate discipline and a good batting eye.
He is an ASU commit. 
vid 1:  live AB (double) - HS game in Las Vegas - March 2010

vid 2:  IF drills - in Las Vegas - March 2010

vid 3:  BP - SLC, Utah - Oct. 2010

vid 4:  live AB (double) - SLC, Utah - Oct. 2010

vid 5:  live AB (triple) - World Wood Bat, Jupiter, FL - Oct. 2010

vid 6:  live AB (bloop double) - World Wood Bat, Jupiter, FL - Oct. 2010

I'd like the Giants to considerHager starting in the 2nd round - with the idea that an relatively large overslot deal would be needed to sign him.


12. Brad Miller: LHH, SS, Clemson (6'1" 185) (DOB=10/18/89)
Miller is a talented 3-tool athlete.  He has a lean and loose frame, with sloping shoulders and long arms.  He has above-average speed, a fringe-plus arm, excellent range, above-average bat control, and the potential for above-average power in the future.  His main drawback has been his glove, which has been very error-prone during his first 2 years in college.  Miller committed 23 errors at SS as a freshman and 32 as a sophomore, but he has just five errors so far in his junior season.  Many evaluators believe that he'll have move off SS (to 2B, 3B, or the OF) as a pro, although he does have more than enough range and arm to play there.  Miller does have an unorthodox batting stance and swing.  He starts with a narrow and slightly closed stance - feet about shoulder-width apart and knees bent with his weight mostly balanced.  He holds his hands up well above his head with the bat almost vertical.  As the pitcher throws the ball, Miller shifts his weight to his back leg, bends his front knee more, and lifts the heel of his front foot off the ground.  He then begins to bring his hands down to just above his shoulder and twists his hips and torso to a slightly more closed position.  As his hands continue to drop, he starts the forward motion of his swing by striding toward the pitcher with his front foot about 12 inches while simultaneously rotating the foot until it ends up facing the pitcher and at a 90 degree angle to the plate.  He quickly and firmly plants his front foot to the ground, straightens his front leg to a locked position, and rotates his hips open.  His hands then drop down and through the hitting zone, then he snaps his wrists to bring the barrel of the bat through the zone.  He does a very good job of keeping a strong front-side as he swings.  He has a lot of work to do with his hands during the swing due to their extreme starting position, but his legs, hips and torso have only a few moving parts to get out of whack.  You know that anybody that has had as much success at the plate as Miller has with this type of swing setup has to have strong and quick hands, and excellent bat control.   The times that I've seen Miller play, he definitley has exhibited those attributes.  He also gets good plate coverage with his bat during his swing, but the barrel of his bat does have a sharper downward plane than most swings and it doesn't stay level through the hitting zone for a prolonged period of time.  He does do a great job of letting the ball come deep into his zone before making contact.
Here's what BA reported on what 1 MLB scout recently had to say about Miller's swing:
"It's not orthodox — you probably wouldn't teach his swing to a youngster, but he's got a good approach, he's got good hand-eye coordination, and he has a knack for barreling the ball," an AL area scout said. "He starts his hands up high, almost above his head, and to be honest it's a long swing, and the plane is kind of in and out of the zone. But he just always figures out how to hit. Right now you almost can't get him out."
He was rated the #35 preseason prospect in the nation for the 2011 draft by Baseball America.  In the Summer of 2010, Miller was a starter for the USA National Team (joining Gerrit Cole and Sonny Gray as the only returning members from the 2009 team).  Miller played mostly at 2B, but he also played SS and 3B, while hitting a team-best .441 (15-for-34) with 4 doubles, 1 HR, 6 RBI, 11 runs, a .647 SLG, 6 BBs, a team-best .525 OBP, 1 steal, and a .963 fielding percentage in 14 games.  He led the team in batting average by 80 points and helped the team to the silver medal in Tokyo.  Miller broke his finger in March when he was hit by a pitch in a game against Virginia.  He missed the next 7 games, and when he returned it was only as a DH for a couple of weeks.  He returned to play SS starting on April 5th and went 15-for-25 in his next 6 games, with 2 doubles, 2 triples, 7 RBI, and 4 SB's.  Miller has always hit since ever he joined the Clemson team in 2009.  This year he leads Clemson in BA, OBP, and is 2nd in slugging.  His K-rate of 17.5% is a bit worrisome given his power production, but his BB-rate of 18.2% is great.  I can't find any videos on the internet with sustained focus on Miller, but I have seen him play for Clemson on regional TV games, and at the College World Series in 2010, several times over the past 2 seasons.  I'm planning on seeing him play in person when Clemson comes to Florida to play FSU in the middle of May.  From what I've seen of him, I think that he already has all of the tools needed to become a starting SS in the majors.  The main remaining issue with him is that he needs to catch the routine groundballs hit to him and not focus so much on making the spectacular highlight reel plays.  I thought that perhaps his previous year's offensive stats might have been a product of the old college aluminum bat, but after seeing his results hitting with a wood bat for Team USA in 2010, and the way he has taken immediately to the new deadened college bats without a hitch, I believe that Miller could probably hit well with a walking cane.  
Current 2011 college stats:  http://www.collegesplits.com/cgi-bin/csPlayer.cgi?pl=millebr61
.413/.519/.550/1.069  with AB=109, wOBA=.474, H=45, 2B=6, 3B=3, HR=1, BB=25 (18.2%), K=24 (17.5%), SB=15 of 18 (83.3%)
vid 1:  live game - 2008 Clemson highlights (check out the throw Miller makes from his knees at the 1:27 mark): 

vid 2:  live game - vs. Okl. St. (check out the play Miller makes in the hole at the 1:00 mark) - May 2009

vid 3:  live game - vs. FSU (Miller hits an RBI single at the 2:30 mark) - May 2010

vid 4:  live game - vs. Alabama (Miller hits a HR to LCF at the 2:29 mark) - June 2010

vid 5:  live game - vs. Alabama (Miller hits a double at the 0:43 mark) - June 2010

vid 6:  Q&A - CWS - June 2010

I think the Giants should consider taking Miller as early as their 3rd round pick - he's a much better prospect than last year's 3rd round pick at SS, Carter Jurica.


13. Austin Slater:  RHH, 3B/SS, Bolles HS, Jacksonville, FL (6'2" 190) (DOB=12/19/92)
This year's Garin Cecchini?  Slater broke his ankle playing frisbee in late Jan. 2011. and will likely sit out the entire 2011 HS baseball season.  This will likely mean that Slater will fall down many draft boards and be available much later than he would have been had he been able to play this season.  The Red Sox were able to steal Cecchini in the 4th round in 2010 in similar circumstances, although it did take quite a large overslot deal to buy him out of his LSU committment.  Slater's injury required surgery and doctors inserted a plate and a couple screws in his ankle about a week later. Slater’s entire senior season is in jeopardy, though he is hopeful he will be able to return to action in time for the playoffs in early May.  He is an outstanding student, committed to Stanford, so that will be another difficulty in getting him to sign.  He was drawing plenty of attention from pro scouts before he was injured.  Slater has said that many teams had already invited him to predraft workouts and many others were interested in scouting him during the season.  He is an above-average runner and has the arm strength necessary to stay on the left side of the diamond.  Slater shows a nice, compact swing and can drive the ball to the either gap. He has a balanced hitting stance, loose upper body and swing, and strong hands.  He starts with a medium stance, that is slightly open.  His hands are held high (at shouler level) and in front of his body.  His right elbow is bent and behind him, held slightly below shoulder level.  His bat is mostly vertical, although he does let the head lay a bit behind his body.  He wrings his hands around the bat handle and moves his hands up-and-down a bit, although his lower-body remains quite still, as he waits for the pitch.  He triggers his swing by lifing the heel of his front foot, moving his front foot very, very slightly towards the pitcher and towards the plate, and going up on the toe of his front foot.  At the same time he shifts his weight onto his back foot and side, and brings his hands back and up to separate them from his body.  Next, he begins his hip rotation while twisting his front foot to a 90 degree angle to the plate, and firmly planting his heel.  His front leg completely straigtens out and locks to form a strong front side to anchor his hip and body rotation.  He gets a full and quick hip rotation that leads his upper-body, hands and bat through the hitting zone.  His quick hands and powerful wrist snap bring his bat quickly to the ball on a short stroke and supplies (along with the hip rotation) plenty of power.  You'll notice that his front foot takes little to no stride during his swing, so there's not much of a danger of him overstriding, moving his head around a lot, or getting very off-balance during his swing.  It's a simple and easy swing, with very few moving parts, so he should be able to repeat it going forward.  Some say that his hands tend to go stiff at contact, but he has very good bat speed, and an extended finish.  He shows power to all fields, and the ball comes hard off the barrel of his bat. Slater is very strong and athletic, and has a projectable and well-proportioned frame.  He has outstanding arm strength in the infield, charges the ball well, has some agility, and a long release on his throw.  He makes the routine plays at SS, but likely profiles better at 3B in the future - where his bat should play. He has above-average speed as evidenced by his 6.73 sec. 60 time.
He's a Stanford commit, so he'll be tough to sign.  
vid 1:  BP - AFLAC All-American Classic - San Diego 8.15.10

I'd like the Giants to consider Slater starting in the 3rd round - with the idea that a very big overslot deal would be needed to sign him.
 

 

14. Trent Gilbert: LHH, 2B/SS, Torrance HS, Torrance, CA  (6'1", 175) (DOB=3/17/93)
Bats LH, throws RH.  Mechanically speaking, his swing reminds me a bit of Willie McCovey's.  He has great hands, and uses them to control his bat and to generate great bat speed.  His frame is long, lean, and projectable, with long legs and a high waist.  He has hands that are extremely soft and sure on the infield.  His defense is already smooth and polished - as one scout noted, this is what happens when your father has the keys to the baseball field and won’t let you go home until you take 30 grounders consecutively without an error.  He tore up the So. Cal HS league as a junior - outhitting his highly-touted teammate Angelo Gumbs (Gumbs was drafted in the 2010 1-S round and signed with the Yankees last August) and setting a school record by getting 58 hits in xxxx games.  For the 2009 season he hit .527, with 17 doubles.  Gilbert has taken over Gumbs's spot at SS in 2011, and has taken his hitting to another level.  He has the hands, and quick feet to play SS, but he doesn't have the above-average arm strength or range to his right.  I'd start him out at SS and see if the arm strength and range comes around as he grows and puts on muscle.  If not, move him back to 2B and he'll be more than fine there.
Un. of AZ. commit. 
vid 1:  BP & IF - Summer 2010

vid 2:  live AB & IF practice - Summer 2010

vid 3:  live AB's & IF practice - March 2011:  

 I'd like the Giants to consider Gilbert starting in the 4th round - with the idea that a slightly overslot deal would be needed to sign him.


15. Max Homick, LHH, OF/1B, Rancho Bernardo HS, San Diego, CA (6'4" 200) (DOB=6/10/92)
He has a tall, lean, and projectable body with sloping shoulders and a powerful lower-body.  His actions on the diamond are clean, smooth, and athletic.  He has a sweet and easy LH swing, with a very firm front side, that generates a lot of bat speed and power with lift.  He also shows strong and quick hands with above-average bat control.  He keeps his hands tight to his body and his bat is short to ball.  He has gap-to-gap power with the potential for well above-average power in the future.  He is very smooth at 1B, with plus footwork and soft hands.  He showed good D and good instincts in his short stint in RF, with an above-average arm.  He's also an above-average LH pitcher with a FB that sits in the 86-88 mph range and has touched 90.  On the mound he displays good mechanics and an easy motion.  His speed is only average, with his best time in the 60 being 7.16 sec. - but he has quick feet and a quick first step that somewhat negates his slower straight-away speed.  He's a freak in that he can also throw very well righthanded and sometimes he will start at third base for his summer league team, although his HS coach keeps him to completely left handed during the HS season. 
He's a Univ. of San Diego commit.
vid 1:  Live AB - Calif. Showcase, San Diego - Jan. 2010

vid 2:  Live AB - HS game, San Diego - March 2010

vid 3:  Live pitching - HS game, San Diego - March 2010

vid 4:  live game (single & SB) - HS game, San Diego - 5.6.2010

I'd like the Giants to consider Homick starting in the 4th round - with the idea that a relatively big overslot deal would be needed to sign him.


16. Riley Moore: SWH, C, San Marcos HS, Santa Barbara, CA (6'3" 190) (DOB=8/12/93)
Moore is an under-the-radar guy with plenty of tools.  Arm, bat, switch-hitter, power - and he's developing into a pretty good catcher.  If he makes it, Moore would be the first ever quadruplet to make the majors.  His LH swing looks quick, powerful, and short to the ball.  His RH swing looks a bit rougher and longer.  But he shows good mechanics from both sides.  As a catcher, he shows good form, with quick feet, receptive hands, and a very strong arm.  If he can stick at catcher then he should have a great future.  If he has to move to 1B or the OF, then he should still have the feet, arm, and bat to be a success.  As an added plus, he's very young, even for a HS player - he won't turn 18 until the middle of August. 
He's a Un. of AZ commit. 
vid 1:  local sports news segment - April 2010

vid 2:  Live AB's and catching - Spring 2010

vid 3:  BP - Summer 2010

I'd like the Giants to consider Moore starting in the 4th round - with the idea that a relatively big overslot deal would be needed to sign him.


17. Nick Tropeano: RHP, Stony Brook Univ. (6'4" 200) (DOB=8/27/90)
Tropeano is a sinkerball/slurve pitcher who relies on smarts, control, movement, and changing speeds and location to get hitters out.  From BA (August 2009):  Tropeano's bread and butter is his biting breaking ball, and he uses his changeup effectively as well. He could add velocity to his 87-88 mph fastball as he grows into his 6-foot-4, 205-pound frame. Tropeano earns plaudits for his composed demeanor and focus on the mound.  He played in the Cape Cod League in the summer of 2010, leading his team to the league championship.  He came out of the pen in the deciding game (after
being pulled early from the 1st game in the series due to ineffectiveness) and shutdown the opposing team.  Working on only 3 days rest, Tropeano pitched 6 2/3 innings of no-hit ball - with 7 K's - on 97 pitches.  He feels confident enough to throw any of his 4 pitches at any point in the count.  His main pitch is a 2-seam FB (sits 88-91) that has good sink.  He also has a very good slurve and a plus changeup (Jim Callis called it "one of the best changeups in the college ranks").  He can also reach back and throw a 4-seam FB, that has touched 93 mph, when he needs a strike out, or to mess with a hitter's sight-lines. 
He's young for a college junior - he won't turn 21 until the end of August. 

2011 college stats:  http://www.collegesplits.com/cgi-bin/csPlayer.cgi?pl=tropeni42
G=9, GS=9, IP=59.2, IP/St=6.2, ERA=1.06, FIP=2.63, WHIP=.79, BAA=.167, H=35, HR=0, K=78, BB=12, K/9=11.8, BB/9=1.8, K/BB=6.5, HR/9=0
I think the Giants should consider taking Tropeana as early as their 4th round pick - he should be an easy sign at that point.


18. B.A. Vollmuth, RHH, SS/3B, Un. So. Miss. (6'4" 200) (DOB=)
He sustained a hip flexor injury that kept him out 2 weeks in the middle of April 2011.  He came back from the injury, but he has been relegated to only the DH role.  I doubt that he has the ability to stick at SS, but he just might be a good enough hitter to justify the move to 3B. 

2011 college stats:  http://www.collegesplits.com/cgi-bin/csPlayer.cgi?pl=avollb-42
.319/.418/.603/1.020  with AB=141, wOBA=.438, H=45, 2B=6, 3B=2, HR=10, BB=23 (13.4%), K=34 (19.8%), SB=1 of 1 (100%)
I'd take a gamble on Vollmuth as a value pick beginning in the 5th round - he could still be available then, depending on how he ends up the season.

 

 

 19. Nick Burdi: RHP, South HS, Downers Grove, IL (6'4" 210) (DOB=1/19/93)
Power pitcher.  Low arm slot, closer to sidearm than 3/4.  Especially tough on RHH.  I don't think that he profiles as a pro starter, I think his ceiling is as a closer. 
He is a Louisville commit.
I think the Giants should consider taking Burdi as early as their 5th round pick - although he's unlikely to be available then.
vid 1:  live game - June 2010

vid 2:  live game - WWBA, Oct. 2010

vid 3:  live game - Under Armour Game, Aug. 2010

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The 1st round

I believe that the 3 wildcards in this year’s first round will be Matt Purke, Bubba Starling, and Jackie Bradley, Jr. I could see them going anywhere between #4 and #34. Bradley and Purke both entered this college season as consensus Top 10 picks (with Purke being considered a Top 5 by most), but have had disappointing results in the first 2/3rds of the season. Purke had good W-L and ERA numbers, but his peripherals suffered, his velocity was well down over last season, and he wasn’t pitching deep into games. Bradley started out pretty well, but he slumped horribly against SEC competition and all of his offensive stats suffered as compared to last season (he was hitting well under .300 – with little power – by the middle of April). Then, towards the end of April they both got injured. Bradley sprained his wrist trying for a diving catch and will be out until after the draft, and Purke sat out the past 2 weeks with something that has been diagnosed as bursitis in his shoulder (his final game he was struggling to throw his FB above 85 mph). Teams are going to have to decide if they feel Purke’s shoulder issue in only a minor setback (let’s not forget that his throwing motion has been a bone of contention with scouts ever since before the 2009 draft) and whether Bradley’s mediocre play in 2011 was a look into his future or whether his play in 2010 was the real thing.

As for Starling, he has no injury or performance issues. Almost every evaluators raves about his tools and upside as a pitcher and an outfielder. Starling’s issue is that he’s a world-class QB prospect with a full-ride scholarship to Nebraska, and he loves to play football. Teams will have to decide if they can risk drafting him highly and be able to pay him enough to get him to not play football.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 1, 2011 10:32 AM PDT reply actions  

Dillon Howard

Do you think he won’t be available at 29 or are you not a fan of him as a prospect?

Same question for Nick Delmonico

Twitter Blog
My Son Drafted Your Son

by Gobroks on May 1, 2011 10:44 AM PDT via mobile reply actions  

Howard:
I’ve heard only good things about him. I haven’t been able to find any video on him anywhere, so I didn’t want to put him on my board until I saw him pitch. The other reason he’s not on my board is that I think he’ll be gone before we pick at #29.

Delmonico:
I love his bat and his athleticism. I don’t think that he’s ever going to develop a good enough arm to stick at catcher, so that knocks him down some in my estimation. I think that he could stick at 3B or 2B, though, because I’ve seen his good hands and quick feet. Ultimately, I left him off my board because I don’t think that he’ll still be there when our 1-S pick comes up (#49), and I just have too many other guys ahead of him for our pick at #29. Because of his bat, I have a feeling that he’s going to get picked even before our #29 spot. I have a gut feeling that there will be several runs on batters in this year’s draft, because of their thin availabilty and the fact that there are so many good pitchers available. I think a lot of teams will go for the hiters first, in the belief that they can get a 1st round quality pitching prospect as late as the 2nd round.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 1, 2011 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

Speak of the devil

BA.com has a long blogpost out today about Delmonico, and it looks like my hunch about him could be wrong. Apparently, scouts are disappointed with his play this year and he could end up slipping. Read the whole post at this story link (it also has a lot on LHP Daniel Norris – another highly-ranked 2011 prospects – who pitched against Delmonico’s team last night), but here’s the meat of what they wrote about Delmonico:

Scouts have been a little down on Delmonico recently as he hasn’t shown much power this season. Farragut’s field has short dimensions and he only went deep once in batting practice.

“He’s been very disappointing,” a National League area scout said last week. “Farragut’s had so many players through there—that’s one of those high school programs that legitimately has a prospect for the draft every year. So I’ve seen him play since he was a freshman. I’ve seen him consistently for four years in high school and it’s been a little surprising that he hasn’t played better this year. He’s got a good approach, it’s a good swing, but he’s a big, strong kid that just isn’t hitting for power and he hits in a bandbox. Even in BP, he’s not showing any power, which is surprising. He’s been banged up a little bit this year, but he wasn’t showing any power before anyone knew about any injuries so I don’t know what’s going.”

Delmonico injured his left wrist earlier in the season sliding into third base. He says he is only recently back to full strength and thinks that has attributed to his lack of power. “It’s feeling good,” he said. "It wasn’t too bad. It was early in the season, I slid into third and it was kind of a jam thing. It hasn’t been bothering me at all lately. I’ve been icing it every night as prevention. Today was the first day in BP where I felt really locked in and it was 100 percent. Catching and swinging today it felt great. It feels really good when you go up to the plate now and there is no stiffness or tightness.

“Catching is also a thing that’s been wearing me out a little. But that’s what it is. There’s a couple balls that have been right there that I’ve been missing, but in BP today I felt stronger than ever and 100 percent. I’m really looking forward to going into the district tournament and I feel like right now I’m getting hot.”

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 1, 2011 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

FWIW

is right. I’m not saying that they’re wrong, but has BA, or any other publication/site for that matter, ever been able to predict which pitcher Tidrow will choose this far away from the actual draft? I mean, they don’t call him “The Ninja” for nothing. Nobody ever gets a line on what he’s thinking unless he wants them to. Hell, even back in 2008 when we had the #6 pick nobody predicted we’d go for Wheeler until right before the draft started. If I were trying to guess which pitchers Tidrow and Sabes were really interested in I’d try to find out the ones that Tidrow only went to see pitch one time.

At least I agree with BA that we’re very likely to go with a pitcher in that spot. I’m hoping for the bat first, but I have a feeling that I’ll end up being disappointed.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 1, 2011 2:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

Totally agree

Baseball mock drafts are not football or basketball mock drafts. With the Giants picking 29th even a day or two before the draft I wouldn’t put too much stock in what the mocks say.

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by Giant Torture on May 1, 2011 7:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

A couple of the guys do a good job with their final top 10s that come out right before the draft.

As for mock drafts, I see why publications and websites publish them – they bring traffic and eyeballs – but I don’t think that they are particularly worthwhile. I would much rather see them, and all the amateur guys publish a draft board – just like all the teams do.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 1, 2011 8:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, they’re obviously just a sort of fun and academic exercise, as one changed thread (Baltimore drafts… Matthew Hobgood!) can undo the entire blanket. Mostly I look at them as a just a Stock Up/Stock Down kind of thing, even right before the draft. That said, I can remember a couple of times when we’ve been attached to guys we ultimately took. Matt Cain, in particular, was our pick in a few mocks I saw that year. And of course, there were enough rumors attaching us to Bumgarner that Dr. B felt the need to publicly announce his impending suicide attempt.

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by Roger on May 2, 2011 6:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, there were a quite a few Zack Wheeler to the Giants rumors in 2009. But I think it’s generally true that the Giants are pretty secretive. There were no Lincecum or Posey rumors that I can remember.

by Dan from NM on May 2, 2011 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

True, although in both of those cases they were ranked at a a higher value than our pick, and you don’t really hear “rumors” of fortunate falls for obvious reasons. I mean Posey was rumored to Tampa Bay with the 1.1 pick almost up to the day of the draft. However, a lot of people did think the Giants wanted to take a catcher and I saw more than one mock draft connecting us to Skipworth (and thank god the draft didn’t fall that way).

MY DAD WAS WRONG!
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by Roger on May 2, 2011 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

I predicted we would take Buster

One look in his eyes and I saw we would win the World Series if we drafted him.

by EricW on May 2, 2011 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

I totally believe you! Nicely prognosticated, Eric.

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by Roger on May 2, 2011 6:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don’t think that was mock draft intended to predict who would take whom. It was more of an experiment in which BA staffers took turns picking players on behalf of each team.

by Dan from NM on May 2, 2011 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

Amazing work!

You do such great work here. Just wanted to say how much you’re appreciated.
A few guys I was wondering about :

George Springer: He’s had a tough year at UConn, and will certainly fall from top 5 status. Any chance he falls to us?
Jack Armstrong: Love the name, love the stuff. They’re projecting him as a reliever, right?
Christian Lopes: Still projects as a SS, right?
Zach Cone: I like his arm, and he had some pop last year. 2nd rounder?
Living here in Utah, there are a couple of guys I’ve seen a bit of .
CJ Cron, a catcher with line drive power. What do you think?
 Bo Cuthbertson, a SS at Southern Utah. Saw him play at BYU, and again, liked his line drive swing.
Also David Herbek. A SS with his power? Is no one on him?

Fun stuff. Any more Brandon Belts out there?

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by Giantsfan4life on May 1, 2011 10:49 AM PDT reply actions  

I'm not sure about the 2 SS's but I can talk about the other guys

Springer-Very good tools, but a bit raw for a college player. I can’t see him getting out of the top 15.

Armstrong-He injured his back (I think) last year and Vandy has so much pitching depth that they’ve been cautious with him. He could be a reliever but a team could try him as a SP.

Lopes is Owens’ teammate. He is polished HS player. He’s probably more of a 2B in pro ball. I’d say he’s a 2nd Rd talent.

Cone has big tools but they haven’t actualized on the field. I wouldn’t take him until the 3rd/4th round.

Cron is a 1B now because he hurt his labrum. He was pretty rough before the injury too. His bat is legit though.

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by Gobroks on May 1, 2011 11:12 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

I’d agree with most of these comments. I would add the following.

Springer: I think that he will end up going in the top 10. He started out very slowly this season, but he’s been hot for the past 5 weeks and with so few legit 5-tools talents available I believe he will be jumped on very early by some team. His overall stats right now:
.380/.475/.684/1.158 with 8 HRs + 20 SBs >> his K-rate is way down this year to only 11.6%

Christian Lopes : I know him quite well, and I agree that he’ll likely have to move to 2B, but that’s not why I’ve lowered him a bit in my rankings. My main issue with him is whether he’ll ever hit well enough witha a wood bat. I think that he could really do a free-fall and not end up being drafted until after the 4th round. Not because teams don’t think that he’s a 2nd round talent, but rather that they will think it will take 1st round money to sign him, and no team will likely be willing to pay him that much, so an early round pick would be wasted. I do still have my eye on him, and I could change my mind if I saw some good recent video of him playing this Spring.

Zack Cone: I researched him quite a bit, because of his tool-set. But, it came down to me not liking his swing or his batting eye or his pitch recognition. I do love his defense in CF and his arm, but we already have at least 3 prospects in the minors that project to be better CFs than Cone, IMO. Would I take a shot at him after the 8th round? Sure, but I doubt that he lasts past the 5th round.

Cron: He’s got a legit bat, but I look at his body-type and see a future 1B/DH. I see no way that his body would hold up under the rigors of catching in the pros – even after his shoulder heals. Don’t get my wrong, he’s not a lumbering hulk at 1B like Adam Dunn, but I don’t believe in his body long-term. The other reason he’s not on my board is that I believe he’ll be gone before we get our 2nd pick at #49.

Herbek: I’ve looked into him, and I didnt’ see a guy that would go in the first 6 rounds. He’s a senior that no team drafted last year after his jumior season. If you have any kind of pulse as a MI these days you’re going to be drafted by some team in the 50 rounds after your junior season. I do like his arm, but I don’t believe that he has the range or glove to be a SS/2B as a pro. The guy that I do have my eye on for James Madison is the catcher, Jake Lowery. I wouldn’t mind the Giants taking a look at him staring around the 8th round.

Bo Cuthbertson: I know nothing about him. Just looking at his stats sheet, he seems to be hitting very well this year, although I would worry that he’s got a 16.7% k-rate against such a low level of competition. Why don’t you put together a thumbnail scouting report on him and post it some time. He might be a sleeper to keep an eye on in the later rounds.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 1, 2011 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

Springer

I’d be ecstatic if Springer fell to us, but I highly doubt it happens.

by Smiley Face from Hell on May 1, 2011 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

As ever, draft amazingness

Where do you get your HS/College stats from? The individual university/HS pages or is there another place?

by Deleuzian on May 1, 2011 2:45 PM PDT reply actions  

Thanks

For HS info, I mostly go to the local papers where they play HS. Just do a search on theirfirst and last names and the high school name and you should get multiple hits to newspaper articles written by the local press. For the colleges the best source for the historical records are the college athletic department’s websites. For up-to-date stats of the current college season I normally use collegesplits.com.

Other national sources for HS info are:
perfectgame.org
baseballrumormill.com
maxpreps.com

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 1, 2011 9:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

Fla-giant

Once again, you must not sleep or work… Great work!

by capn on May 1, 2011 4:06 PM PDT reply actions  

Your prospects suck...

and I refuse to explain why. Just kidding thanks for the great work as always.

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by Giant Torture on May 1, 2011 5:16 PM PDT reply actions  

A few somewhat local guys:

Erik Johnson RHP – Los Altos HS and then Cal. Another big kid – probably 6’ 3" and 250 ish. Low to mid 90s, good change and CB. He is a back of the first round type.

Bobby Crocker OF – Aptos HS and then Cal Poly SLO. Fast, big, decent arm with some power. One of the best bodies I’ve ever seen on a HS player. Probably a 3rd round kind of guy due to limited exposure to top competition.

by GiantDad on May 1, 2011 5:26 PM PDT reply actions  

I haven’t had the chance to check either of them out, although I have read some bits and pieces on Johnson. I’ll add them to my to-do list.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 1, 2011 9:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

Kolten Wang

I agree that he’s short to and long through, however, he doesn’t inside out the ball nearly as much as Posey to draw those conclusions. Also, really good to see him do well with wooden bats in the Cape Cod League, especially for someone coming out of Hawaii because the travel to and from can throw off the numbers a bit. All that being said, he’d be an extreme reach in the 1st round. KLaw doesn’t list him in his top 50 at all, BonusBaby lists him at #47. I think his size (5’9") isn’t something that projects for a 1st rounder and while he’ll probably hit for average, he’s not going to hit for enough power to be a top tier or even above average 2B. He might however be a good 2nd round pick.

If Derek Fisher is still on the board at pick #29, he might be a good pick. However, the guy I’m hopeful the Giants will jump on is Javier Baez. He probably won’t stay a SS, but if he does fits in the Cal Ripken A-Rod mold. He is raw light tower power and probably needs to cut a little swing out, but he fits both need and best available (which we disagree on).

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by Giant Torture on May 1, 2011 6:38 PM PDT reply actions  

You and me both
However, the guy I’m hopeful the Giants will jump on is Javier Baez

.

That said I think he’ll likely be gone long before the Giants pick. I also think he has a nonzero chance or remaining at SS.

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by Gobroks on May 1, 2011 7:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, kind of doubt he'll be there either

But as long as we’re talking about guys that won’t be there. Corey Spangeberg is a guy I really love. He will stay at SS and has blazing speed. Maybe not Darren Ford Gary Brown fast, but just a notch below. Also, really like the swing, especially for a speed guy.

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by Giant Torture on May 1, 2011 7:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I’ve seen him as a 3B/LF projection. Nobody has him as a SS in the future. That being said, he’s got some big-time helium right now. He’s got a power bat and that’s in short supply in this draft. He’s also a JuCo guy, so he has a bit more leverage than some. I think he’ll end up going in the mid-20s and could be there at #29. I’ve looked into him some, but not in-depth, so he’s a future project.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 1, 2011 7:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah he's a Miami commit IIRC

He’s in that awkward range where he could be a bit of a reach at 29 but will likely be gone in the 1S round

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by Gobroks on May 1, 2011 7:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

He is intriguing – and flying up the rankings.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 1, 2011 8:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

KLaw

Lists him as a SS and says he thinks he’ll stay there. Not sure, which is correct, would seem to be a big a SS, but the range can’t worse than guys like Tejada.

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by Giant Torture on May 2, 2011 4:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

Are we talking about the same guy? Cory Spangenberg is a 20 year old kid that plays 3B for Indian River State JuCo in Florida. He is finishing up his 2nd year of college ball (he played at VMI as a freshman) , and is committed to play for the Univ. of Miami during the 2012 season (his Junior year). Every scouting report that I’ve read on him wonders out loud if he’s too deficient to stay at 3B in the pros. Many evaluators conclude that he’ll have to move to LF becuase of his defensive deficiencies. If he could play even a halfway decent SS, then I don’t think that there’s a guy on his JuCo team that would be keeping him at 3B. He did play SS in HS and a bit at VMI, but KLaw must be hallucinating if he’s projecting Spangenberg to be a SS in the pros. With his bat, he would be a top 10 prospect if he could stick at SS.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 2, 2011 9:55 AM PDT up reply actions  

Keith Law lists him at SS on the rankings but also mentions that scouts aren’t sure he can play even third base in pro ball. He said scouts love his swing and running speed.

by Dan from NM on May 2, 2011 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Wong

Good points, but I think you’re selling him short. Based on past results and their contacts among team scouts, I think the current gold standard in rankings is BaseballAmerica. They came out with their updated mid-season top 50 ranking just 3 weeks ago and they had Wong at #27 (ahead of Fisher at #34 but behind Jose Baez at #23). I think it will be touch-and-go as to whether Wong will still be there when we pick.at #29. I’d bet the house that he’ll be gone when we pick again at #49. I really douibt Baez will still be there at #29, and when I looked into him I didn’t believe he would stick at SS, and I didn’t buy into his potential with the bat. Also, if I’m going with a HS kid I believe that both Fisher and Nimmo will end up better pros than Baez.

Here’s the link to the mid-season top 50:
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/draft/news/2011/2611568.html

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 1, 2011 8:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

Also, be sure to watch the 2bd video clip of Wong that I posted way up top (highlights of his Cape Cod League play). You’ll see there are several examples sprinkled throughout of Wong keeping his hands inside the ball and driving it to LF. He’s not as good at it as Buster is, but then neither was Buster when he was a 20-year old playing at FSU. One of the great things that I like about Wong is that he’s a sponge (like Buster) who can quickly soak up knowledge and apply it to bettering his game at a very quick rate. He was able to switch from catcher to 2B, and 9 months later he was named the MVP of the Cape Cod League as a 2B.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 1, 2011 9:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

He was the starting 2B for his team, but he might have gotten some innings in CF. Managers often experiment with things in the CCL.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 2, 2011 8:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

Thanks for the link

I know that BA is usually considered the gold standard, however, there’s so much disparity in the rankings and they do tend to fluctuate. Still, someone would have to have a big OBP and steal a good deal of bases to be above average at 2B without much power. To me Wong sounds like a left-handed Franchez, a valuable commodity no doubt, but I’m not sure that that’s worth a 1st rounder.

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by Giant Torture on May 2, 2011 4:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think that you’re selling Wong’s power way too short. He has the potential to be a 15 HR/35 doubles per year hitter in the majors. Although, I doubt that his range will ever match Franchez’s.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 2, 2011 8:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

Maybe I am selling it short

But his swing and body type don’t seem to scream power to me. I agree that there could be the random year in which he hits 15 homers, but the same could be said for Franchez. I think he’s more likely to sit somewhere in that 8-12 dingerz per year. Just other guys I like more personally.

Also, I don’t think you draft for need with your first two picks. Most of these guys are 2-6 years away from playing in the majors and with free agency it’s near impossible to tell what your team will look like when they actually get there. I understand what you’re saying about not being able to accurately predict the best available talent, but at the end of the day that’s their job, sure it’s an in-exact science, but I don’t think you give up because of that.

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by Giant Torture on May 2, 2011 8:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

I agree that you don’t want to reach on a need pick in the first 5 rounds. I don’t see that Wong is a need reach. More than 1 evaluator has Wong as a top 30 talent in the entire draft, so in this case I see Wong as a good mariage of need and talent. It doesn’t hurt that he’s the 1 top position prospect (besides Rendon) that is closest to the majors, IMO. I could easily see Wong playing in the majors by 2013.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 2, 2011 9:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

If they pick Wong I won't throw myself down the stairs

But I don’t know, in a draft that’s extremely pitching deep, it just feels wrong to after a 2B. Still maybe it’s my expectations, but in the 1st round I expect difference makers who can either hit in the middle of the lineup or pitch at the top of the rotation. I like Wong, I really do, but as stated he looks like Freddy Sanchez with more speed and less glove.

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by Giant Torture on May 2, 2011 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

Fair enough. I think the difference in our 2 outlooks is that I see Wong’s bat as being a big improvement over the average major league 2B – which will give the Giants a sizable advantage.

One other point. Since this draft is so deep in pitching and light on position players, the smart move is to take the position players early before they’re off the board. The pitching is so deep that you should be able to get a guy in round 2 or 3 that isn’t much different than the guy you couild have picked up at the end of round 1 or in round 1-S. Once you get past the top 5-8 pitchers, the 2nd-tier prospects are deep and plentiful. As a parallel, in the just-completed NFL draft running backs didn’t get picked until way down in the draft because most evaluators didn’t see much of a difference between the guy they could draft in the first round and a guy they could pick up in round 3 or 4.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 2, 2011 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

That last point, in particular, is a good one. Although it might seem counterintuitive (“It’s a pitching-rich draft; quick, get a bunch of pitchers!”), it really would be the smart move.

Good job as always, Fla!

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by Lyle on May 2, 2011 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

Supply and demand, it always holds true in everything.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 2, 2011 7:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

Maybe because it's so pitching deep

Good hitting prospects will get pushed down boards. Just because there are a lot of good pitchers doesn’t mean the best pick is a pitcher, and it’s possible that with everyone focused on arms they’ll forget the bats, especially with the pitching-centric philosophy of a lot of teams right now.

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by quincy0191 on May 2, 2011 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

Wong is a very unusual guy in terms of a true 2B who looks to be a 1st round draft pick. Highly unusual. That said, he’s probably a solid bat who could be a fairly fast mover who’s likely to be taken very close to where we pick. It’s not far fetched at all to think he’ll be the guy at 29.

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by Roger on May 2, 2011 6:43 AM PDT up reply actions  

Agreed

You rarely see a college 2B rated this highly. Usually they play a different position in college and are drafted based on their ability to play 2B in the pros. Ackley, Wallace, and Kipnis come immediately to mind.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 2, 2011 8:43 AM PDT up reply actions  

Colon as well. I don’t think there was much of any thought that he was going to be able to stay at SS, which makes the #4 pick that much more surprising.

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by Roger on May 2, 2011 9:02 AM PDT up reply actions  

Call me crazy, but I think that Wong is a better prospect than Colon was last year, because of his higher potential to be an impact bat. I only would have drafted Colon that highly if I thought that he would have been able to stick at SS. Of course, we now know that Colon was only drafted that high due to a pre-draft agreement on his signing bonus between Boras and the Royals. Boras agreed to a slot bonus and no holdout if the Royals would draft him at #4.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 2, 2011 9:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

Also, because it looked like Colon was going to slip all the way back into the 20s pre-draft. His stock was really dropping. This way he gets to crow that his guy was the #4 overall pick, and the slot money he got at #4 was more than he would have gotten if he was picked after #20 – and he would have had to sit out until the deadline to get that. It was actually a very savvy move by the Royals and Boras.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 2, 2011 6:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

Because the slot at 4 was higher than the above slot he was likely looking at if he slid into 10-15 range, which was quite possible in a draft with such muddled consensus (and I assume Boras felt confident that he was reading the tea leaves correctly)

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by Roger on May 2, 2011 6:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

Agreed

Especially because the Giants seem to put a lot of stock into CCL performances

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by Gobroks on May 2, 2011 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hahaha

I’ve been waiting for your post on this year’s draft for a while. Thanks again!

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by Unitard on May 1, 2011 6:58 PM PDT reply actions  

Some other guys I think the Giants could be interested in

Travis Harrison-3B/OF-HS (CA). He is a USC commit with very good RH power. He’s a 3B now with a slim chance to remain there in pro ball. More likely he’ll move to a corner OF spot.

Alex Meyer-RHP-Kentucky. He’s very tall and throws hard. Problem is he also walks a lot of guys. He is one the high risk/high reward guys in the draft and really could anywhere in the draft. He turned down 2M out of HS and is a Boras client so he’ll have a large price tag.

Dillon Howard-RHP-HS (Ark). I mentioned him upthread. He is another Boras client and an Arkansas recruit, which is a solid school as they got Ryne Stanek-a 3rd pick by Seattle last year.

Jason Esposito-3B-Vanderbilt. Esposito has had a solid year at the plate and is a very good defensive 3B-he even played some SS this year. He has earned some comparisons to (suck it) Casey Blake.

Brian Goodwin-OF-Miami Dade CC. Goodwin got kicked off UNC’s baseball team this year and transferred to Miami Dade which makes him draft eligible. He has good athleticism and speed but questionable instincts in CF and there are also some questions about his swing.

Phil Evans-SS-HS (CA). Evans is a San Diego St commit and is a favorite of Frankie Piliere. He doesn’t have great power but he should be able to stay at SS in pro ball.

Jose Fernandez-RHP-HS (Fla). Fernandez is a Cuban defector so is one year older than his HS competition. He has a tremendous FB and a solid curveball. He lacks a 3rd pitch and due to his age he could move quickly in a bullpen role.

Levi Michael-SS-UNC. He’ll probably be gone by the time the Giants pick but there’s some chance he’ll still be available. He has good on base skills and made the transition to SS this year and most think he can remain there.

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by Gobroks on May 1, 2011 7:22 PM PDT reply actions  

Harrison could slip to the Giants

And if that’s the case, I hope they jump on him. He really didn’t start the year out strong, but has started hitting of late. Another guy who could slip to the Giants is Anthony Meo. Meo has two plus-plus pitches, which has scouts concerned that he’ll be a reliever instead of a starter, but given the Giants ability to teach pitchers additional pitches especially the change-up, he could be an absolute steal for the Giants if he’s able to develop an additional pitch or two and if he doesn’t he’s a top shelf reliever.

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by Giant Torture on May 1, 2011 7:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not a huge fan of Meo

Because while he reportedly has good stuff, his K rates haven’t been great especially against weaker competition

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by Gobroks on May 1, 2011 7:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

Plus he has big-time control issues. He really reminds me of a young Halladay, though.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 1, 2011 7:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, he's a gamble

But after watching some video and reading a couple of scouts reviews, he’s a huge upside type guy, but as is usually the case with high upside guys available that late in the 1st round, he comes with a lot of downside, still I think that worst case he’s a very good reliever.

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by Giant Torture on May 2, 2011 4:40 AM PDT up reply actions  

Good stuff, Gobroks

Wow, we’re on a very similar wavelength. I looked into all 8 of those guys that you listed long and hard during my research. They all intrigued me greatly. All except Jose Fernandez and Dillon Howard barely missed making my list.

My issues with Fernandez are his advanced age (he shouldn’t be in HS – he should have gone to a JuCo this Spring) and lack of secondary pitches. In the end, I see him as a reliever, and I’m not going to spend a top 30 pick (I think he’ll be long gone before we pick at $49) on that potential when there are so many other pitchers available who I think have a higher potential. As for Howard, I just don’t have enough info on him now, but the fact that he’s a Boras client (which I didn’t know before now) turns me off to him.

Alex Meyer – in the end, besides the control issues, I did not like his arm slot (it negates his height advantage) or mechanics enough to take him at #29. He’s also a guy that I think will be gone before #49.

Jason Esposito – his D at 3B would play in the majors right now, but I have more than a little doubt about his offensive potential. I watch him play on TV and I still see a ton of ugly swings at pitches well out of the zone. I just don’t have enough faith in his pitch recognition to spend a top 50 pick on him. Now, if he were still around at #86 in the 2nd round (I think this is unlikely) I would be very tempted – depending on who else was still on the board.

Travis Harrison – I would take him with our #49 pick, but I think he’ll be gone before then. I love the bat and the power potential, but I worry about his lack of consistent contact and I think he’ll end up in LF. Since I only think we have a shot at him at #29, I put both Fisher and Nimmo ahead of him. Both are better hitters and both have the abiltity to be plus defenders in RF.

Phil Evans – love his glove and speed. I think he’ll be the best defensive SS in his HS class and that he’ll stick there as a pro. I just don’t believe in his offense going forward, so I don’t see him as an upgrade to what we already have in Adrianza and Crawford. Not to mettion that he’s at least 4 years from the majors.

Levi Michael – I love the guy, although I’m not totatlly sold on his ability to be a pro SS – certainly he’ll never be an above-average defender there. I think he’ll end up being a well above-average 2B in the majors, but I like Wong better at 2B than Michael because of Wong’s superior bat.. I also think that Michael will be gone before #29.

Brian Goodwin – I like his tools, but I’m not sure what position that he’ll play (probably CF or 2B), and I don’t see him as a big upgrade at those positions over what we already have. Not to be a one-note nay-sayer, I also don’t think Goodwin is a top 50 guy, but he’ll almost surely be long gone before we pick at #86.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 1, 2011 8:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Evans

You think he’s a better defender than Lindor?

But yeah, these are definitely legit criticisms

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by Gobroks on May 1, 2011 8:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

Right now, no. I think 4-5 years from now he could well be. Frankly, I have more than a little doubt about the steadiness of Lindor’s glove and his potential with the bat going forward. I seriously think that the lack of great SS prospects in all of baseball has made Lindor one of the most overrated and overhyped guys in the whole draft. I’m kind of glad that the Giants have no shot at him. He’s going to cost some team about $4-5M to sign him.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 1, 2011 8:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

Although I freely admit that I have no specific thing to point to in terms of his defense, and that the odds of me being wrong are fairly high. I just have a gut-feeling on Lindor.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 1, 2011 8:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think he's a top 10 prospect

But he’s the 3rd best HS hitter in this draft-and honestly I could see rating him as low as 5th

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by Gobroks on May 1, 2011 8:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

I heard similar complaints about Machado last year. Personally, Lindor is a kid I’d love to have no matter where I was picking.

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by Roger on May 2, 2011 6:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

Too bad he won’t be there at our pick.

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by ejdacanay on May 7, 2011 2:55 AM PDT up reply actions  

Wow

Awesome work, though it’s a bit of an overload at this time.

Don't think he can cut it in the bigs? Brock Bond will be the bigger man and walk walk walk away.

by baetown415 on May 1, 2011 7:34 PM PDT reply actions  

I know. LOL. That’s why I wanted to get it out there now while there’s still plenty of time to think on things and take things in small chunks.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 1, 2011 7:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

This is a small chunk???

Dear God, what will the full-size portion look like?

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by quincy0191 on May 2, 2011 2:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

No, this is the big chunk. What I meant was that I posted the big chunk now so everybody could read it in little chunks when they have the time and inclination. This isn’t meant to be digested in 1 sitting – although I see below that that’s what you did.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 2, 2011 8:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

God damn

Awesome analysis. I’m going to have to read a few sections of this a day.

I really liked Kolten Wong though. I’m not much of a scout or mechanics guy, but his swing just seemed so easy and quick.

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by GrahamCrakalaka on May 1, 2011 10:58 PM PDT reply actions  

Plus

I loved the patience

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by GrahamCrakalaka on May 1, 2011 10:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

Looked at all these guys

Before I post what I thought, I’ll say that I don’t know jack about any of this stuff. I also looked at the videos and formed my own opinions before reading what you said (though in some cases I looked to see things like velocity and development of offspeed stuff but I knew what I thought before that), so this isn’t biased by your opinions. Therefore, I expect to be wrong a lot.

Wong: Not a huge fan. Really liked the bat speed, and if he can handle 2B defensively that makes him more attractive. Looked more like a good reader of pitchers than a very speedy runner. But the fact that he keeps the bat on his shoulder scares me a bit; in the first video, he doesn’t even pick it up until considerably after the pitcher has started his motion. That’s just one more unnecessary thing he has to do when swinging, and I don’t like it. Maybe it can be fixed, maybe it doesn’t need to be fixed, but right now it’s more than a little scary.

Fisher: This guy concerns me more with the actual swing than with the setup. Big uppercut on a lot of his hacks in those videos, and the bat speed seems to vary. Sometimes he’s quite quick through the zone, other times it seems like he’s long and that could sap him of hard contact and timing as well.

Nimmo: Really liked his swing. Bat stays flat through the zone and he is quick. Ball sounded really good coming off the barrel. The OF was weird; I would hope he’s usually more aggressive charging balls, and his rocking-back throw perhaps causes more delay than is necessary. Still, those seem like more minor defensive issues that shouldn’t affect his draft status too much. It would’ve been nice to see exactly how good his arm is instead of just his approach to balls.

Chafin: Didn’t get much out of the video, but TJ surgery that early in a career is a bit of a red flag. His delivery didn’t seem particularly fluid in the ten seconds it was actually shown in that video.

Stephenson: High leg kick is reminiscent of an earlier time in baseball, and I’d imagine it lets him get more force downward to the plate. Agreed on the projectable label; he looks like he could add some muscle and velocity. Good looking pitcher.

Beede: Like that he hides the ball, but I don’t think he’s going from there to his release point in the most effective manner. It looks like he’s snapping his elbow pretty hard when he throws the ball, and I can’t imagine that’s going to end well for him.

Smith: Another good deceiver, particularly with the pause. Not sure if taking the ball out of the glove is the best thing to do; it could allow RHH to see his grip before he throws, but the pause is good to mess with timing. Looks like an easy and repeatable delivery. I like this guy a lot too; the only concern would be the already mediocre velocity, but as everyone knows velocity isn’t everything and if his offspeed stuff is that developed already then he looks like a great pick.

Owens: Liked his delivery too, particularly impressive arm speed. A little too impressive, really. It’s great that he can do that when he’s actually throwing, but to throw his arm back as violently as he does on the backswing seems unnecessary and could cause repeatability issues and injury – if he’s too quick through the whole motion then fixing one part of his mechanics could be problematic. Certainly agreed on the “pitching with his arm” bit.

Kelly: If he’s trying to pull a Lincecum by putting the ball behind him before he throws, he’s not doing it. Way, way too easy to see the grip and anticipate the pitch; it’s right there, at his waist and at the batter’s eye level. For a “slinger” type he doesn’t seem to rotate the hips much either. Not a fan.

Meo: Not a fan of this delivery either. Looks like a huge guy, but he’s pitching with his arm again, and it’s hard to rotate the hips when you’re bent over like that. Elbow is doing wonky things, seems to be high injury potential. Velocity makes sense with his size, and the lack of control isn’t particularly surprising either. What’s with the return of the super high leg kick?

Hager: Very, very nice swing; great speed and bat stays flat. Ball again sounded good coming off the bat. It’d be nice if his step was a little later; it looks like he’s driving the ball primarily with his hips and hands (which is fine) but he could get more drive if he used the forward momentum of a step to add a little oomph. Seems like he’s got Stance 1 to see the pitcher throw and Stance 2 to actually swing, but since it looks like the step is done by the time the pitcher releases (it doesn’t take that long for the ball to get to home), I don’t see the point in Stance 1. But that was a very nice swing.

Miller: Couldn’t tell much from the video, but nothing clearly problematic. Seemed fine.

Slater: Another uppercut. Bat speed very good and I like that he keeps his hands back; he’s quick to the ball and quick through the zone. But that looks like another exploitable swing; throw at his back foot and he’ll swing and miss right over the top.

Gilbert: Liked the defense more than the swing. Another uppercut LHH, and the metal bat didn’t help evaluating his power. Good bat speed though; if he can play 2B or SS (I predict 2B; I didn’t think his arm was great) like that, I’ll take what I can get on the offensive side, which doesn’t look that bad really.

Homick: Liked him more as a pitcher than a hitter; seemed to have an easy, repeatable delivery, though I’d like some more FB velocity. It’d be funny to have two ambidextrous third basemen, but not enough that I think he should be a position player.

Moore: More uppercuts. At least he’s a switch hitter. And a catcher. Not hugely impressed.

Burdi: Not a big fan of the delivery.

Overall, the guy I liked most here was Nimmo, with Smith second, Hager third, Wong fourth, Gilbert fifth, Stephenson sixth to complete the first five rounds. Reading through the comments, it looks like I’m crazy to have Wong fourth, but that whole bat on the shoulder thing really weirds me out and I wasn’t particularly impressed with the actual speed so much as the reading of a pitcher (which is still great, but can be taught). The bat speed was very good, so perhaps I’m underrating that, and I don’t know about his discipline because I didn’t look at the stats too much, but hey.

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by quincy0191 on May 2, 2011 2:07 AM PDT reply actions  

Holy shit. This is one long post and isn’t OGC or OCG or whatever his name is.

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by SFGuy on May 2, 2011 2:19 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I didn’t expect somebody to do this all in one sitting and then write about it in such detail. Good stuff Quincy!

My comments:

In general: You mention an uppercut in a swing as a universally bad thing. This is just not true. Every power hitter ends their swing with an uppercut. Unless the batter’s uppercut is very pronounced through the zone, it’s a good thing. Just read a scout’s report on a given hitter. The report will give a hitter extra points for hving the uppercut that gives the hitter lift to hit the ball out of the park. Even guys with exaggerated uppercuts can be successful – Will Clark comes immediately to mind. That being said, I don’t see any of the propsects on my list that have exaggerated uppercuts. The ones that are borderline would be Fisher, Miller, and Gilbert. Usually, if a guy has an upercut that’s going to be an issue it will show up even in HS as the inability to make consistent contact. So far, none of my guys has exhibited that trait.

Wong – I’m not sure why you thnk the bat on the shoulder is a negative thing in terms of timing. The fact that you start with the barrel there actually helps a hitter get it into the hitting zone quicker. The traditional technique of holding the bat vertical makes it take longer for a hitter to get the barrel into the zone. The main objection most hitting coaches have with leaving the barrel on the shoulder is that you tend to lose the power generated by rotating the barrel around and through the zone with your wrist snap. It’s not as if we don’t have a prime example of a guy that made the low bat start work well. Pete Rose had pretty good stats and he started with his barrel even lower than Wong’s.

Chafin: I don’t think that the TJ after his freshman year is that early these days. A lot of kids are getting them done in HS. Plenty of accomplished major league pitchers have had it done in college. Th ekey is to make sure any mechanical flaws are fixed during the rehab process to make a recurrence less likely. I wish there was a better vid of Chafin available, but from the 1 I posted it didn’t appear to me that he has a motion that lends itself to injury at this time. I’ll reserve final judgment on when I can get a better look at his mechs.

I’ll have more comments later when I have a bit more time to check what you wrote.

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Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 2, 2011 9:08 AM PDT up reply actions  

I know the uppercut isn't necessarily bad

But from what I understand, it causes contact issues and holes in swings and guys who swing flat aren’t necessarily robbed of power. And I don’t know if those contact issues would come up on high school against less advanced pitching, particularly breaking balls; it’s not a problem if you’re being thrown straight fastballs, but when a guy can locate a slider or curveball against a hitter with a big uppercut I’m pretty sure that’s dangerous. It’s one thing when the ball is low in the zone (kinda hard to keep the bat flat there) but some of those guys were uppercutting on high pitches as well. There’s also my general preference for contact over power which is influencing that as well. TBH, Fisher wasn’t particularly bad, but Gilbert looked like he had serious issues in that regard and the ball wasn’t exactly jumping off his metal bat so…

The issue I have with bat on shoulder is that it’s one extra unnecessary step in the process of swinging. To go from bat on shoulder to swing, first you have to raise the bat up so you can bring it down; you can’t really sweep it across your shoulder. Why not just start with the bat above your shoulder? I found some video of Rose (I’ve never actually seen him hit) and it looks like he starts the bat below the shoulder instead of on it. This doesn’t mean he has to bring the bat up like Wong and doesn’t create the same timing problem; in fact, he’s probably ahead of most hitters since the bat is already closer to swinging and he can wait on a pitch a little longer since he takes less time to swing. The reason this annoyed me is really because I used to do the same thing as Wong and it actually made me a worse hitter; once I started with the bat off my shoulder I could swing quicker and easier. Of course, I was a pretty bad baseball player.

For Chafin, regardless of how common TJ surgery may be, having surgery that early still scares me. Maybe it shouldn’t, and certainly the bigger problem is mechanical, but I can’t imagine why needing that surgery would be a good thing. Like I said, though, it was hard to get a look at his mechanics in that video.

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by quincy0191 on May 2, 2011 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

VINDICATION (of sorts)

Heyman posted a list of a top 25 + 10 that had Nimmo and Fisher “before” Wong. They were both in the last 10 and mentioned before Wong, but I don’t know if those are rankings or just also-rans. They also weren’t sure about Wong’s impact ability, though Nimmo wasn’t pegged as having as much certainty as Wong.

So I’m not completely stupid. Feels good!

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by quincy0191 on May 2, 2011 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

I didn’t mean to imply that you were stupid. It’s not like you said that Wong will be a dud. I posted more on the Heyman list below.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 2, 2011 6:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

No, I didn't get that from your post

I’m just not very knowledgeable about how to evaluate prospects pre-draft; once they get in the system and start putting up professional number it gets a lot easier but so much of the pre-draft stuff is about scouting and I’m not well versed in that area.

Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)

by quincy0191 on May 2, 2011 7:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

More on uppercuts

I was watching Jose Bautista hit, because what he’s doing is ridiculous, and I thought of this uppercut v. flat issue. And the more I think about it, the more I don’t like uppercut swings. Looking at Bautista hit, you see him drop his hands and the bat stays perfectly flat. And he’s launching balls 450 feet.

Meanwhile, uppercut guys like Dunn and Howard typically display similar power with much worse averages. If it weren’t for their plate discipline, it’d be hard to argue for them starting, which again pushes me away from uppercuts. It seems to me that an uppercut guy NEEDS to have a good eye, because they undoubtedly will have problems making contact. When they do make contact, it tends to go far, but an uppercut isn’t necessary for great power.

On the other hand, if you add a great eye to a flat swing you get Bautista or Pujols type players. Megastars. Invaluable assets to a team.

Obviously it’s not quite that simple, that a flat swing automatically means good or even better results, but all else equal, I don’t see the advantage to the uppercut. It probably does give weaker players extra power, but they sacrifice a lot of average and probably OBP to get it, while strong players are making needless concessions to a pitcher. Uppercuts shouldn’t destroy a player, but they sure as hell don’t seem to help.

Ultimately bat speed is the most important thing, but as far as mechanics go, I’ve yet to see an consistent advantage to having an uppercut.

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by quincy0191 on May 10, 2011 11:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

What you’re describing is the exact benefit of, as they say, having your bat “stay in the zone a long time”. I only mention it because somebody recently was complaining that they had no idea what that saying meant. A flat swing gives you, theoretically, more area (and time) to make contact with the pitch because its on the hitting plain for a longer period of time, while extreme uppercuts have a much narrower band, or zone, in which they must intersect with the ball.

I didn’t say that very well, but anyway, the advantage you describe is what is meant by that saying.

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by Roger on May 11, 2011 5:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

I’ve liked Owens for a while too, though I’m not sure he’ll be anything better than a 2-3 (at best). Who knows though.

Don't think he can cut it in the bigs? Brock Bond will be the bigger man and walk walk walk away.

by baetown415 on May 2, 2011 8:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

Also that Edison HS team is really good

Owens, Lopes and Eric Snyder who is likely a top 5 Rd draft pick

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by Gobroks on May 2, 2011 8:32 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

I didn't actually like Owens that much

I mean, in the “you have to pick one of these guys to start a game tomorrow” he’d definitely be up there, but as a long-term investment I don’t like him much because HE WHIPS HIS ARM BACK AND FORTH.

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Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)

by quincy0191 on May 2, 2011 9:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

In his defense, his flaws seems easily correctable. The one big long-term issue that I have with him is his stamina. I don’t think that he’ll ever be a guy that consistently works deep into games.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 3, 2011 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

Okay

(I don’t know if he’s correctable just because I don’t know anything about that)

But I don’t think I’d use a 1S pick on a guy who needs significant correcting (and it looks like he would) in a draft this deep, especially on the pitching side. If he’s a 3rd or 4th round pick I wouldn’t be making any stink, but to spend a high pick on a HS pitcher who needs mechanical tweaking seems like it’s begging for trouble. OTOH, it’s Tidrow, and he’s the Pitching Guy, so I’m not going to be questioning him if he says Owens is the right guy to take.

Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)

by quincy0191 on May 3, 2011 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

My approach (finely honed in the drafts of 2006 and 2008) is just to assume that somebody awesome is going to magically fall to us and go from there. So come on Bubba Starling camp… let’s starting hearing some good $50 million bonus rumors out of you!

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by Roger on May 2, 2011 6:47 AM PDT reply actions  

Yeah, the Giants are especially hard to read, because they have 2 guys at the top that are such different drafters. You never now if Sabes is going to go with John Barr’s guy in round 1 or with Tidrow’s guy. I thin Starling could be a lot like Zach Lee was last year. If teams get the vibe from his camp that he wants to play college FB really badly then they’ll likely stay away from him early. The 1 caveat is that the ability for a team to spread his signing bonus over 5 years makes his signing demands easier to meet than the kids that only play baseball.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 2, 2011 9:13 AM PDT up reply actions  

That’s assuming that they are willing to let him play QB at Nebraska with the inherent injury risks and loss of IL time. A team might well prefer to simply buy out that risk the way the Dodgers did with Lee.

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by Roger on May 2, 2011 9:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

Exactly

That’s one of the points I was trying to make (but didn’t do a good job at). Teams might not be willing to take the chance that they will be able to throw enough money at Starling to get him to swear off football entirely.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 2, 2011 9:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

Can someone explain the appeal of football to me?

I mean in the sense that a prospect would want to pursue it, especially over baseball. Everyone knows it means more injury and in a lot of cases some pretty serious long-term damage, and since you can’t get drafted out of high school you’re automatically taking a chance that you’ll still be a highly regarded prospect once you’re eligible for the NFL draft. It can’t be the money, either, since baseball players seem to make more than football players. I guess if you’re really in love with the game or are from Texas it makes sense, but it seems to me that football is worse for your health, a bigger risk, and a lesser reward.

Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)

by quincy0191 on May 2, 2011 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

It’s a hell of a lot more exciting to play than baseball, and there isn’t so much sitting around during the game. Not to mention that the travel is way better in football, and if you’re the star QB you’re a hell of a lot more famous than the vast majority of BB players.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 2, 2011 6:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

But that fame doesn't necessarily mean monetary rewards

And while a lot of people want to be famous just to be famous, I think a lot of people’s reasons are as much about the money that comes from fame as the fame itself. Endorsement deals might put you at a higher overall income as an NFL player, but I highly doubt that’s the norm.

Travel is something I don’t know about, but I’d be surprised to hear that’s a significant factor in a lot of kids’ decisions.

Excitement is probably true, but that’s under the category of “in love with the game” for me; I like the pace of baseball more than football and it seems a lot of people agree with that, so a lot of prospects should too.

Really, none of those things seem as significant as spending a few years at college with the injury risk or the randomly-get-worse-or-don’t-improve risk. That can torpedo a career before it begins, and I’m surprised to hear of so many prospects being willing to take that risk. The most likely explanation IMO is that they just like football better, but that’s a lot of risk to go from a sport you like to a sport you really like.

Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)

by quincy0191 on May 2, 2011 7:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

I really think you can break it down two ways, pretty simply:

1) The kid likes football more, and wants to play.
2) The kid looks at the NFL, sees no minor league system to crawl through, and assumes a fast track to a starting professional gig out of college.

Number two is obviously a stupid thing to think. That doesn’t mean it’s not what an 18-year-old thinks. They are famously stupid.

Currently stifling the bacon, the world.

by howtheyscored on May 3, 2011 6:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

But they have people talking to them

Parents, coaches, frequently agents. How are those people telling them that they would have an easier time of it in football? Or are they not talking to the kid? Or is he ignoring them and doing whatever he wants?

Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)

by quincy0191 on May 3, 2011 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

You have to put yourselves in their shoes. The attention level and adulation level for HS and college athletes that star, or just play, in basketball or football is off the charts when compared to baseball. The basketball and football players are treated like rock stars wherever they go. Baseball players are lucky if their games are televised locally, and their biggest showcase (the CWS) is played when the vast majority of students are finished with their school years. Excitement, adulation, alumni giving you cars, money and jobs, and chicks throwing themselves at you – it’s just no contest for most HS guys. You have to really, really love baseball to give up a shot at all of that.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 3, 2011 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not really. You just have to look at the value of a couple of million $$$ in hand :)

FWIW, having played both football and baseball in college, I’d disagree with the notion that football is more exciting to play, though the adulation and travel things are certainly true.

As an embarrassing aside, I remember one of the more humbling moments of my life came after my first varsity game in high school (a game in which I had scored both of my team’s TDs in a losing effort). I had a bit of a shiner on one eye and Monday in class one of the school cheerleaders asked how I got it and when I said it happened during the football game, she said, “was there a fight in the crowd?” I had to get her boyfriend, who was the team QB (living the cliche), to convince her that I was actually on the team. And this was a school of about 400 people.

LOL adultation!

MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!

by Roger on May 3, 2011 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't be surprised if Starling floated a 7M asking price

(ie Donavan Tate + inflation). Also, I’d love to pay Starling 7M

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by Gobroks on May 2, 2011 3:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think that his asking price will be higher than that (say around $9M), but he’ll probably end finally signing for around $7M. Spread that out over 5 years and it doesn’t hurt so much.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 2, 2011 6:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

That’s only a little more than a year of Tejada too

LOL

:-(

Don't think he can cut it in the bigs? Brock Bond will be the bigger man and walk walk walk away.

by baetown415 on May 2, 2011 8:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

Weekend college update

Wong: He went 3 for 11 with 1 HR, 2 singles, 3 BBs, 2 Ks, and 1 SB in 3 games at #15 Fresno State. Hawaii won 2 of the first 3 games in the series (the 4th game will be played today).

Chafin: He did not pitch. 2 of Kent State’s 3 games agianst Ohio Univ. were cancelled due to bad weather.

Brad Miller: He went 10 for 17 with 1 HR, 2 doubles, 7 singles, 3 BBs, 1 K, and 3 SBs in 3 games against #11 Georgia Tech – one of the top 2 or 3 pitching staffs in the country (Mark Pope, Jed Bradley, …). Clemson won 2 of the 3 games.

Anthony Meo: He pitched 7 innings with R=2, ER=1, K=10, BB=1, H=6, HR=1, in an 8-2 win against VMI.

Tropeano: He pitched 6.1 innings with R=3, ER=3, K=9, BB=1, H=7, HR=0, in an 5-4 extra inning win against Maine-Binghamton. Tropeano got a No Decision.

BA Vollmuth: He went 5 for 21 with 2 doubles, 3 singles, 3 BBs, 7 Ks, in 3 games against East Carolina.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 2, 2011 11:08 AM PDT reply actions  

Thanks for pulling all this research together. I love the draft.

by Dan from NM on May 2, 2011 12:01 PM PDT reply actions  

Questions

A couple of questions for you, Fla. I tend to be biased towards thirdbasemen, and as such I have an inexplicable preference for Jason Esposito. (Perhaps I’m scarred from the Jose Castillo/Edgardo Alfonso Era. Or maybe I was shattered as a child by the loss of Jim Ray Hart, or frightened as a young man by Darrell Evans). Can you give me 4 or 5 3Bs that you see as being available at or after #29, and some idea of their strengths/weaknesses?

Also, any thoughts on RH high school pitcher Hawtin Buchanan from Mississippi?

Love the draft talk, and thanks as always for your insights, as well as everyone else’s contributions.

The great thing about baseball is that there's a crisis every day. ~Gabe Paul

by Lyle on May 2, 2011 2:21 PM PDT reply actions  

Esposito and Spangenburg have been mentioned as 3B that could be available at 29

Also Vollmuth is probably a 3B in pro ball.

That’s about it for Day 1 3B (except for Rendon of course)

As for other 3B

Tyler Goeddel-St. Francis HS (Mtn View, CA)
Dante Bichette Jr-HS (Georgia)-He has massive power, but a bad approach
Harold Martinez-Miami-Sorta like Esposito lite
Joshua Tobias-HS (NC)-More athlete than baseball player at this point

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by Gobroks on May 2, 2011 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

Pretty much covers it

I would add that Travis Harrison (the HS 3B from Tustin, CA) will probably go in the # 25 to 50 range. He’s got 1 of the best power bats in the draft and probably a 50/50 chance of sticking at 3B. I also doubt Bichette will be able to stick at 3B in the pros.

Espo is the most complete 3B in the draft, but I have doubts in his bat. If he were still around in the 2nd round I’d pull the trigger on him, but I doubt he lasts past #35. I think there will be better prospects on the board during our first 2 picks that would preclude me from considering him.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 2, 2011 6:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ooops

We both forgot Javier Baez, who possibly could end up at 3b.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 2, 2011 7:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

I believe in him as a SS

And I don’t really buy Harrison as a 3B

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by Gobroks on May 2, 2011 8:24 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

This is the first I’ve heard of him.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 2, 2011 6:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

Please don't pick Derek Fisher

I cannot ever root for a man named Derek Fisher.

go rowand

by lincypoo i wuv u on May 2, 2011 3:18 PM PDT reply actions  

LOL – Laker hate!

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 2, 2011 6:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

Matt Barnes, Brad Miller, what is this nonsense?

go rowand

by lincypoo i wuv u on May 10, 2011 12:40 AM PDT up reply actions  

So here is my draft board-as of May 2

So obviously things can and will change

1-Anthony Rendon-3B-Rice
2-Gerrit Cole-RHP-UCLA
3-Dylan Bundy-RHP-HS (OK)
4-Bubba Starling-OF-HS (KS)
5-Danny Hultzen-LHP-Virginia
6-Sonny Gray-RHP-Vandy
7-Archie Bradley-RHP-HS (OK)
8-Blake Swihart-C-HS (NM)
9-Francisco Lindor-SS-HS (Fla)
10-Taylor Guerrieri-RHP-HS (SC)
11-Jed Bradley-LHP-GA Tech
12-Josh Bell-OF-HS (TX)
13-Matt Barnes-RHP-Uconn
14-Trevor Bauer-RHP-UCLA
15-Taylor Jungmann-RHP-Texas
16-George Springer-OF-Uconn
17-Javier Baez-SS-HS (Fla)
18-Andrew Susac-C-Oregon St
19-Levi Michael-SS-North Carolina
20-Daniel Norris-LHP-HS (TN)
21-Mikie Mahtook-OF-LSU
22-Henry Owens-LHP-HS (CA)
23-Dillon Howard-RHP-HS (Ark)
24-Jackie Bradley Jr-OF-South Carolina
25-Brian Goodwin-OF-Miami Dade CC
26-Travis Harrison-OF-HS (CA)
27-Jason Esposito-3B-Vanderbilt
28-Tyler Anderson-LHP-Oregon
29-Jose Fernandez-RHP-HS (Fla)
30-Nick Delmonico-C-HS (TN)
31-Tyler Beede-RHP-HS (Mass)
32-Alex Meyer-RHP-Kentucky
33-Derek Fisher-OF-HS (PA)
34-Charlie Tilson-OF-HS (Ill)
35-John Stilson-RHP-Texas A&M
36-Robert Stephenson-RHP-HS (CA)
37-Kolten Wong-2B-Hawaii
38-Phil Evans-SS-HS (CA)
39-Alex Dickerson-OF-Indiana
40-Brandon Nimmo-OF-HS (Wy)
41-CJ Cron-1B-Utah
42-Cory Spangenburg-3B-Indian River JC
43-Andrew Chafin-LHP-Kent St
44-Austin Hedges-C-HS (CA)
45-Billy Flamion-OF-HS (CA)
46-Joe Ross-RHP-HS (CA)
47-Dwight Smith Jr-OF-HS (GA)
48-James McCann-C-Arkansas
49-Anthony Meo-RHP-Coastal Carolina
50-Matt Purke-LHP-TCU

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by Gobroks on May 2, 2011 3:48 PM PDT reply actions  

Wow you’re really low on Bauer (and a little high on Barnes).

MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!

by Roger on May 2, 2011 6:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

Bauer

I kinda tried to split the difference on him-some see him as a top 10 pick, but I’ve also seen him as a fringe 1st rounder.

Also why is Savage letting him throw so many pitches

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by Gobroks on May 2, 2011 8:23 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

Looks good and complete.

What are your specific thoughts on Mahtook? I get the lust after his power, tools, and stats, but every time that I’ve seen him play I haven’t been that impressed. I saw him play on Thursday against Kentucky and he was thoroughly dominated by Alex Myers. He couldn’t catch up to Myers 94 mph FB, and Myers struck him out twice on a slider way out of the strike zone.

His D is only above-average, at best, and he doesn’t get good jumps or track the ball well when it’s hit over his head. His arm is between average and above-average. He does have good speed for his size.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 2, 2011 7:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

Mahtook

Best case scenario is he hits like Brett Jackson has so far.

Worst case is he’s a tweener who K’s a ton.

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by Gobroks on May 2, 2011 8:21 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

Does that add up to the #21 rated prospect in this year’s deep draft to you? I’m not saying he shouldn’t be in the 42-50 range, but nowhere near 21.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 3, 2011 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah

He has a fairly high floor, modest upside, and has shown good power this year

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by Gobroks on May 3, 2011 3:27 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

Heyman's latest list

Jon Heyman of SI just posted his lastest ranking list. He claims that he put this together after picking the brains of scouts and player personnel types. Here’s the link

Here’s his rankings:
1. Gerrit Cole
2. Francisco Lindor
3. Danny Hultzen
4. Anthony Rendon
5. Bubba Starling
6. Trevor Bauer
7. Dylan Bundy
8. Taylor Guerrieri
9. Matt Barnes
10. Sonny Gray
11. Jed Bradley
12. Josh Bell
13. Daniel Norris
14. George Springer
15. Archie Bradley
16. Blake Swihart
17. Jackie Bradley
18. Jose Fernandez
19. Taylor Jungmann
20. Alex Meyer
21. Andrew Susac
22. Mikie Mahtook
23. Javier Baez
24. John Stilson
25. Brian Goodwin

10 more of great interest:
1. C.J. Cron
2. Brandon Nimmo
3. Tyler Anderson
4. Derek Fisher
5. Dillon Howard
6. Kolten Wong
7. Matt Purke
8. Henry Owens
9. Austin Hedges
10. Williams Jerez

 

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 2, 2011 6:49 PM PDT reply actions  

Here's what he says about some guys of interest:

Kolten Wong, 2B, University of Hawaii. He’s a lefty hitter who’s a “nice player.‘’ Consensus is that this 5’9” player will be a major leaguer though probably not a star.

Brandon Nimmo, OF, Wyoming HS. Could be one of the most talented kids in the draft, but many scouts aren’t quite sure. That’s because few have gotten to see him, as he hails from Wyoming, where high schools don’t have baseball teams. Nonetheless, word has gotten out. He is a monster as an athlete who runs a 6.5 60. "Sounds like he could be a Rocco Baldelii type,‘’ one scout said (though he couldn’t quite be sure since he, too, hasn’t seen him). For now, he’s a Sidd Finch type, since he’s just a great story so far.

Derek Fisher, OF, Pennsylvania HS. Talented high schooler committed to the University of Virginia.

Dillon Howard, RHP, Arkansas HS. "Good arm, good makeup,’’ one scout said. Could be a mid-first-round pick.

Henry Owens, LHP, California HS. Big arm on a 6-foot-7 frame. Has high ceiling. But one scout said he’d shy away because he’s seen as a beach boy type (from Huntington Beach).

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 2, 2011 6:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don’t get the Rocco Baldelii comp on Nimmo. Tools-wise maybe, but Nimmo is going to be much more of a solid physical speciman than Baldelli ever was. Their body types don’t match up at all.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 2, 2011 6:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

Lindor over Rendon

Really? He has Rendon falling that far? His health issues must be serious.

by Smiley Face from Hell on May 3, 2011 8:50 AM PDT up reply actions  

John Manual and Jim Callis still love him as the 1.1, but Keith Law definitely sounds like he’s moving him down his board.

MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!

by Roger on May 3, 2011 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions  

No chance he’s not in the top 3 (barring another injury between now and then).

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 3, 2011 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

My insistence that the Giants draft Beau Mills taught me that I’m not very good at this MLB draft stuff.

Ask me about my blog.

by xanthan on May 3, 2011 7:43 AM PDT reply actions  

You can always trade for me!

Baseball players are smarter than football players. How often do you see a baseball team penalized for too many men on the field?

by Lyle on May 3, 2011 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

Looks like his charge(s) of felonious assault were reduced to disorderly conduct

http://courts.ci.akron.oh.us/cases/akroncourtcases.nsf/Traffic?ReadForm&CATYPE=Crimnal&CASENUM=1006753

I can’t even find him in minor league baseball right now. So, yeah, happy we didn’t draft him.

Ask me about my blog.

by xanthan on May 3, 2011 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

I guess that’s not terribly surprising — when you manage to get disciplinary action at Fresno St. your behavior issues are practically in uncharted territory.

MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!

by Roger on May 3, 2011 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

But as soon as they turn pro you’re an acknowledged expert!!
Go figure??
I blame your original programmers.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 3, 2011 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

Giants needs

So does anybody have any comments on my needs list? Is it about right or just off-base? This might be a good time to come up with a MCC consensus on which types of players the Giants should target.

Here’s my list again:
1. Pitcher
2. Middle Infield
3. Corner OF
4. 3B
5. Catcher

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 3, 2011 2:33 PM PDT reply actions  

I don’t think we have enough strength or depth at any point of the diamond to really create a needs list. We’re short of power and I’d like to see that aspect of the system supplemented. I suppose we have some systemic depth in CF and RP, but other than that I think we need solid players everywhere, and hope the braintrust doesn’t consider position at all in drafting.

MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!

by Roger on May 3, 2011 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

You think that we actually have a need to draft a CF or 1B? Ih ope that the brass doesn’t waste any pick in the top 6 rounds on anybody that projects to be a CF or 1B. With the depth of pitching and interesting HS position players that would just be criminal.

The only CF that I would draft in the first 6 rounds would be George Springer, but he’ll be long gone before our first pick.
The only 1B that I would consider in the first 6 rounds would be CJ Kron, and I would only consider him starting with our 2nd round pick.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 6, 2011 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think we have a need for more quality prospects in our system and I wouldn’t let the existence of Gary Brown or Brandon Belt stop me from drafting whoever was at the top of our board at every pick is. (That said, I’m generally not too in favor of drafting many true 1B as their skillset doesn’t make room for much margin for error). And yeah, I’d draft a catcher if he was the top guy on our board. I really don’t think the Yankees, or Reds or even Nats are terribly upset that they have several quality prospects at C. I don’t think the Rangers were upset that they had too many good looking young catchers a couple years ago — they were upset that none of them seemed to pan out, but that happens

MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!

by Roger on May 6, 2011 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions  

I do think the Twins are probably wishing they hadn’t traded Wilson Ramos away about now, though.

MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!

by Roger on May 6, 2011 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions  

That was a stupid trade at the time, and it’s only become dumber.

Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)

by quincy0191 on May 6, 2011 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

With the quality and depth available in this year’s draft I can’t imagine a case where a catcher or 1B could be the PBA when we choose in the first 2 rounds. Unless Blake Swihart falls to us at #29, or Andrew Susac or Austin Hedges falls to us at #49, or CJ Kron is there at #86, which I just can’t imagine happening, then catcher and 1B wouldn’t be anywhere near the PBA when we pick.

Is ther any C or 1B that you see as worthy of 1 of our top 3 picks?

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 7, 2011 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

No, no. Really I’m guessing we’re most likely to go pitching, but you never knows who will fall. I’m just saying I wouldn’t ever draft for perceived need or away from perceived lack of need.

You know who I do like as a mid-round sleeper is the High School kid from Montana. Whose name is escaping me as I type this.

MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!

by Roger on May 7, 2011 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

Do you mean Brandon Nimmo from Wyoming? If so, I like him a lot, too, and would be happy if we took him at #29.

Oh, and I agree that I wouldn’t let a logjam at 1 position keep me from picking a great prospect at that position. On the other hand, I also think that the vast majority of teams and scouts have a horrible record of identifying who the PBA is at any point outside of the top 3-5 prospects in any given draft. Therefore, I’m fine with the Giants factoring in their needs when drafting – not the most important factor, but definitely number 3 or 4. The best thing about this draft is that this draft is so deep that the only time I see this being a conflict is if a guy obvioulsy falls way down the board for some reason (bonus demands, inclinatioin to go to college, injury, poor stats, …)

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 7, 2011 5:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yes, Brandon Nimmo is who I mean. Got a little brain lock going there.

MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!

by Roger on May 8, 2011 6:02 AM PDT up reply actions  

FWIW There is a kid from Montana that Keith Law mentioned the other day

I think his name is Roberts (but that could be wrong). Toolsy but raw OF

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by Gobroks on May 8, 2011 8:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

That’s right. I think I saw a Tweet regarding him from somebody recently (Conor Glassy?). Probably got the two profiles mixed up in my addled brain somehow.

In general, I always find people from non-baseball locales interesting because of the chance of their slipping through or down people’s lists because of industry bias against them (short season, can’t play enough etc).

MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!

by Roger on May 9, 2011 5:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'd love Susac at 29

And I don’t think I’d take Hedges at 49

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by Gobroks on May 8, 2011 8:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

My list

1. Starting pitching. Never, ever, in the history of the game, will a system have too much starting pitching in it. Ever.
2. High-upside players. Very few of the guys we have can be considered potential superstars even if everything breaks right.

As far as individual positional depth, I’m not really that concerned. I mean, running down the positions:

C – Monell, Sanchez, Joseph, Burkhart. And we already have Posey.
1B – Belt, Ishikawa, possibly Joseph, possibly Sandoval.
2B – Culberson, Noonan, Burriss.
SS – Crawford, Adrianza.
3B – Gillaspie, Dominguez. Still have Pablo through 2014.
LF – Neal, Jones, RafRod.
CF – Brown, Parker, possibly Jones.
RF – Parker, Kieschnick, Peguero.

At each position we have a few guys who could turn into something. I think if I had to pick a position to be worried about, it would be 2B; Franchez isn’t going to be around after 2012 (I hope – I like the guy, but I’m afraid of retaining him beyond that point), and Culberson is the only real prospect we have there unless Burriss has figured something out. I don’t particularly trust Culberson’s ability to become a ML regular.

That’s the optimistic view, of course, because none of those guys (outside possibly Belt and Brown) are close to sure things and they could all fizzle. So Roger’s right in that regard; we aren’t good enough anywhere except possibly 1B and CF so we can draft at a particular position and have the advantage of putting a player at a specific spot outweigh the advantage of taking a better player overall. I really think that’s what they should be doing in this draft; BPA, every pick. Then again, that’s always my philosophy.

Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)

by quincy0191 on May 3, 2011 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

I would love to

have a power hitting ss with good defense and steal bases someone like tullowitzki or hanley ramirez

by MontaEllis1 on May 5, 2011 3:31 PM PDT reply actions  

sign me up for that too

by krukkuipandclint on May 5, 2011 5:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

I agree

Fla-Giant, who’s your pick to be a guaranteed Tulowitzki? Preferably someone in the later rounds, you know, a player that everyone is ignoring for no reason, and he’s not greedy or fully aware of his potential, so he signs for a small bonus. Then we’ll just promote him to the majors, sign him to a ten year deal at $1M per season (because he’ll think “Wow! That’s more money than I deserve!” since he’s so underrated by everyone), and watch him collect the MVP awards.

Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)

by quincy0191 on May 6, 2011 12:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

The best chance would be Jake Hager (#11 on my list). He has a legit ceiling of Tulowitzky, although some say he’ll end up at 3B.

The other guy that has the possibility to be a plus D & plus bat guy at SS is my #12, Brad Miller of Clemson. He’ll never hit with the power of Tulo, but he has better range and speed than Tulo and has the ability to hit above .300 in the majors with lots of doubles.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 6, 2011 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

MLB.com
This spring, though, it appears that even the most cynical scouts can’t hide behind a cliché. The general consensus is that the Class of 2011 is one of the strongest and deepest pools of amateur talent that has come around for some time.

Sounds good

"I'm not a big vegetable guy'' he says. -Tim Lincecum

by ejdacanay on May 7, 2011 2:44 AM PDT reply actions  

Indeed

The recent previous years have had more star power in the first 3 or 4 prospects, but the depth of this year is quite remarkable. I think that it’s quite likely that the propsect available to us with our 49th pick will be just as good as any player picked outside of the top 7 picks in the 2010 draft.

If they choose wisely, Tampa Bay could instantly become by far the top farm system in MLB with all of their picks in the first 2 rounds.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 7, 2011 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

If they’re willing to really pay for all the picks, which is certainly going to be a question.

MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!

by Roger on May 7, 2011 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

They claim that the money won’t be an issue, but, like you, I still have some doubt about that.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 7, 2011 5:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

Figured I'd share

and this thread is as good as anywhere. They’re running a community mock draft over at MLB Bonus Baby right now, and Gobroks and I are responsible for the Giants. We drafted Levi Michael, SS, University of North Carolina, with our first (#29) pick, and currently the draft is on ~#37 or so. The Giants’ supplemental round pick is #49. Who should we be looking at in that spot?

FYI, Wong was drafted at #27, and Michael was the highest remaining player on my and Gobroks’ draft board. What does the prospect-hunting crew think?

Jose Flores: .831 OPS in High-A last year, 23 years old. This is his year.
Co-dad of Ryan Scoma with waelwulf, because we're progressive like that.

by free f.p. #14 on May 7, 2011 5:36 PM PDT reply actions  

I’ve been following it off and on. Michael is a nice pick, definitely on par with Fisher and Nimmo at that point (but I worry about his bat). The 2 Red Sox guys are absolutely killing in that draft. Taylor Guerrieri, Andrew Susac, and Derek Fisher with their 2 first round picks and their first 1-S pick. If that happens next month they would be ecstatic.

It’s too soon to advise you on the #49. becaiuse there are so many picks before then, but if Nimmo is still available there he would be a steal. There will be also be a ton of good pitchers available, so that would be a good direction to look in too.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 7, 2011 5:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

I wanted Nimmo

but he just got taken at #41. I’m thinking we’re gonna look hard at a pitcher in the #49 spot.

Jose Flores: .831 OPS in High-A last year, 23 years old. This is his year.
Co-dad of Ryan Scoma with waelwulf, because we're progressive like that.

by free f.p. #14 on May 9, 2011 9:49 AM PDT up reply actions  

I guess this is as good a place as any to talk about our pick at 49

Some names I’d throw out (In order of preference)

Andrew Chafin-LHP-Kent St
[Big Gap]
Phil Evans-SS-HS (CA)
Joe Ross-RHP-HS (CA)
Cory Spangenburg-3B-Indian RIver CC
Alex Dickerson-OF-Indiana
Charlie Tilson-OF-HS (Ill)
Kyle Crick-RHP-HS (TX)

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by Gobroks on May 9, 2011 8:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

I like Chafin a lot, but worry about his recent hiatus and poor performances in his past 2 games.

I would add Trevor Story, the SS/3B/P from Texas, and Jorge Lopez, the pitcher from Puerto Rico, to your list. BA ranks them as #49 and 50 on their mid-season list. Of course they also rank Spangenberg at #36, Dickerson at #42, Tilson at #43, and Ross at #44. I really dislike Dickerson and Evans here

I would prefer a pitcher here, since you went with Levi at #29, but my worries about Chafin make me hesitate to wholeheartedly recommend him at this time. If I had to rank all of those guys mentioned:

Jorge Lopez
Trevor Story
Tilson
Spangenberg
Ross
Chafin
Crick
Evans
Dickerson

Of course, I would rank Kyle Smith ahead of all of them, but I think he would still be around when we pick in round 2 (whicn won’t be part of the mock).

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 9, 2011 9:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ross and Evans got taken with picks 46 and 47.

I’m leaning Lopez here as well. As we get to the late 40s we are reaching the limit of my prospect knowledge, so I’ll defer to you guys, but FWIW I think I’d rank them Lopez, C-Span, Story, Dickerson.

Jose Flores: .831 OPS in High-A last year, 23 years old. This is his year.
Co-dad of Ryan Scoma with waelwulf, because we're progressive like that.

by free f.p. #14 on May 10, 2011 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think if CSpan is available we should take him

Also, I’m liking Crick more and more, though it may be a bit of a reach to get him here

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by Gobroks on May 10, 2011 1:48 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

Sounds good to me

C-Span if he’s there, who’re you thinking if he’s gone? I’m on the Lopez bandwagon

Jose Flores: .831 OPS in High-A last year, 23 years old. This is his year.
Co-dad of Ryan Scoma with waelwulf, because we're progressive like that.

by free f.p. #14 on May 10, 2011 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'd probably say Crick

Tilson is probably the BPA but he has huge signability concerns

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by Gobroks on May 10, 2011 3:20 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

Weekend college update

Wong: He went 3 for 13 with 3 singles, 4 BBs, 0 Ks, and 2 for 2 SBs in 4 games at Nevada.
Hawaii won 3 of 4 in the series. Wong only hit .251, but his OBP was .412. Looks like they were pitching around him.

Chafin: He pitched 4 innings with R=3, ER=3, K=4, BB=0, H=7, HR=0, in a win against Miami of OH.
Chafin didn’t start the game, he came on in relief in the 4th. There must be some issue with him, because he didn’t pitch at all last weekend, and this week he didn’t take his normal Friday stat. Something to keep an eye on.

Brad Miller: He went 2 for 9 with 2 doubles, 4 BBs, 1 K, and 2 of 2 SBs in 3 games against Gardner Webb.
Clemson won all 3 games. It was a down week for his avg (.222), but his OBP was .462 and he did the little things to help out.

Anthony Meo: He pitched 8 innings with R=0, K=12, BB=0, H=3, in a win against Radford.
A superior performance against an inferior opponent.

Tropeano: He pitched 7 innings with R=1, ER=1, K=6, BB=3, H=4, HR=1, in a win against Hartford.
Tropeano was a bit wild, but he did only give up the 1 run on the solo HR.

BA Vollmuth: He went 2 for 10 with 1 double, 1 HR, 5 BBs, 5 Ks, in 4 games against Alabama-Birmingham.
Vollmuth didn’t make a lot of contact, but when he did he hit for power. He also worked enough BBs to get his OBP to .467.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 9, 2011 2:36 PM PDT reply actions  

Chafin

I think he’s just getting some rest since this is his 1st year back from TJ surgery

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by Gobroks on May 9, 2011 8:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

** Wong viewing ALERT **

Hawaii and Kolten Wong will be playing 4 games against San Jose State this week in SJ.

Here’s the schedule:

Thursday – 6:35 pm
Friday – 3:35 pm (this is a doubleheader, so the 2nd game will probaly start around 7:00)
Saturday – no game
Sunday – 1:05

Hopefully, somebody will go to at least 1 of the games and report back on what they saw from Wong.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 9, 2011 2:42 PM PDT reply actions  

Trying to channel John Barr

I thought that it would be a fun and informative exercise to try to guess a prospect that John Barr might end up championing this year. Ever since he became a Giants draft master in 2008 Barr has used at least 1 of our higher round picks on a tarnished prospect. He likes to gamble on a guy whose ranking has fallen due to poor performances in the season before the draft. Specifically, I would point to:
2010: Jarrett Parker
2009: Jason Stoffel, Matt Graham
2008: Brandon Crawford

It’s a small sample size, but he appears to lean toward college prospects. I’ve been combing the lists for guys that I think might interst Barr and here’s what I came up with so far:

Harold Martinez: RHH, 3B, Univ. of Miami (6’3" 210) (DOB=)
Martinez has pro body that is athletic and projectable. He was a top 40 prospect on most lists heading into the 2011 college season (with many predicting a mid- to late-1st round pick), based mainly on his plus D at 3B and his plus power output and potential. There were questions on his ability to make consistent contact and hit for average, but that wasn’t considered a major stopping point. The 2011 season has been almost a disaster for Martinez. His batting average and contact stats have remained pretty similar to 2009, but his power has disappeared. He has only 6 doubles, 3 HRs, and SLG=.393 so far this year, while last year he ended up with 10 doubles, 21 HRs, and SLG=.598. He even hit 10 HR in only 75 ABs as a part-time starter his freshman year.

Is the problem that he can’t adjust to the new college bat, or is there an injury, or something else? That is the $500K question.
link to up-to-date 2011 stats:
.301/.389/.393/.781 with AB=163, wOBA=.360, H=49, 2B=6, 3B=0, HR=3, BB=22 (10.9%), K=36 (17.8%), SB=7 of 8 (87.5%)

Jack Armstrong: RHP, Vanderbilt (6’7" 225) (DOB=)
Armstrong has a great pitching frame and very good mechanics. He is a polished pitcher that was widely considered a top 15 pick in the 2011 draft as late as last November. He tweaked his back a bit at the end of the 2009 college season, but pitched through it until Vandy was eliminated from the postseason in the first round. He took the summer off to rest and rehab the back, but when he started pitching again in October he tweaked his elbow due to overcompensation for the back injury. He’s finally gotten healthy and pitching agian about 8 weeks ago. Vandy has such an incredible pitching staff that Armstrong has had trouble getting any innings in a game. He has gotten into 10 games in short relief (for a total of 12.1 innings) with good, but not great results. I’ve been reading that he still is well-liked by scouts, so he will ver likely be available in our 1st 2 picks, but gone by the time we pick at the end of the 2nd round.
Here’s the link to his up-to-date 2011 stats

Can anybody think of other possible candidates?

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 9, 2011 3:31 PM PDT reply actions  

If Purke keeps dropping, maybe him?

Don't think he can cut it in the bigs? Brock Bond will be the bigger man and walk walk walk away.

by baetown415 on May 9, 2011 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

Purke would be a Tidrow guy

He’s Mr. Pitching. But even with the arm problems I’d imagine it’s very unlikely he falls all the way to us.

Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)

by quincy0191 on May 9, 2011 5:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don’t think that he would have ever been a Tidrow guy due to his mechanics. But I do agree that the logistics don’t add up to him being a Giant this year, because there are so many better options at #29 and I don’t see him falling to #49 unless his shoulder issue continues bwteen now and June 5th.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 9, 2011 8:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

Poor kid really got screwed by Bud.

MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!

by Roger on May 10, 2011 4:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

He still turned down over well over $1M even after Bud got involved. I don’t have much sympathy for that. He rolled the dice and lost – so far. He’s still only a sophomore, so he always has the option of going back to school next year, rebuilding his reputation and getting drafted higher in 2012 when the depth will almost certainly be much less.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 10, 2011 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

If I and my representative negotiate and sign a $6mil deal, then I should get a $6mil deal. That somebody else who had no authority at the time the deal was made, should insert himself into the situation and strong arm a veto enforcing a soft (or in other words “non-”) regulation that hasn’t been collectively bargained, is entirely worthy of sympathy IMO. Had he been drafted by any of the other 29 teams, Bud wouldn’t have been able to pull that crap, and given that MLB wasn’t overseeing Texas when the deal was struck tells me that he had no authority to pull that crap anyway.

I’d say that Purke and his agent absolutely should have rejected the slot “offer” on general principal. It’s hard to call that “offer” anything other than extortion to me. If it weren’t an obvious case of cutting off one’s nose to spite their face, I’d guess that they could have sued MLB for that original deal and won.

MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!

by Roger on May 10, 2011 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think you could add Kieschnick and Dominguez to that list as well. Unfortunately, one thing that connects several of those guys is a high swing and miss profile, and in most cases that red flag has continued to dog them as pros. So i’m not sure we’re getting much upside out of the strategy.

MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!

by Roger on May 9, 2011 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

Maybe Barr will change his strategy since none of those picks seemed to have worked out.

by EricW on May 9, 2011 5:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

Perhaps, but his picks overall seem to be pretty good.

by Dan from NM on May 9, 2011 6:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

Have they?

Posey was an obvious choice. Gillaspie, Kiescnick and Crawford are all hitting busts. Joseph and Dominguez don’t seem all that good. Belt strikes me as pure luck. Brown was a good pick. Parker is still TBD, but doesn’t seem all that great. Jurica is terrible.

by EricW on May 9, 2011 7:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think you’re judging Barr too harshly. Draft picks have an incredibly high bust rate. Most of these guys, even high draft picks, won’t turn it into high-impact players, on average. Posey, Wheeler, Belt and Brown are a pretty good run, I think.

And I’d disagree that Posey was the obvious choice. The first four teams passed on him, and he was floating crazy-high bonus demands. A lot of people thought it’d be obvious for the Giants to pick one of the other college sluggers, like Justin Smoak.

by Dan from NM on May 10, 2011 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

Including a lot of people here

The Rays and their incredible scouting and development system picked Tim Beckham over Posey. That’s all that needs to be said. Posey was an excellent choice and the Giants did a good job to select him.

Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)

by quincy0191 on May 10, 2011 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

To be fair to the Rays there is some indication that they passed on Posey because of his high bonus demands. Beckham was much cheaper and the Rays don’t have a lot of $$ to throw around. We’ll never know if the Rays would have picked Posey if the money wasn’t an issue.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 10, 2011 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'll never understand the high bonus demand thing

To not pick a player because of at most a couple million, which you probably used to sign a mediocre player you didn’t need and in all likelihood wouldn’t help, just makes no sense.

But even if that’s true, Posey got a $6.2M bonus and Beckham got a $6.15M bonus. Obviously they couldn’t have known the difference would be that small on draft day, but it seems even more unreasonable that the Rays underestimated Beckham by that much, overestimated Posey by that much (though he would have cost more as pick 1-1), and weren’t willing to take a comp pick in the next draft so they caved to Beckham. Makes more sense to believe that they didn’t like Posey as much as Beckham, or at least the difference was quite small and not enough to make up for the money difference. OTOH, Beckham would have more leverage as a HS player.

What I do remember is questions about Posey’s ability to stick at catcher since he didn’t play the position for that long before being drafted, which seriously devalues his bat. In that case, taking Beckham would make a lot more sense than it does now, but that’s a failure of the scouts, not a financial decision. I imagine that played into it at least a little.

Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)

by quincy0191 on May 10, 2011 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ultimately, I think you have to judge the people on the state on the system and right now the state of the system isn’t great. And I understand the hit that any system will take when you get the fast promotion of Posey and Bumgarner. But if you’re looking at the daily Minor Lines, I mean Augusta, Richmond, and Fresno (non-Belt division) are all really prospect wastelands and SJ isn’t what it’s been in the last few years.

It’s a very weak looking system right now, which to me means that the guys in charge of keeping the pond stocked are not doing that well right now. Hopefully a year from now the pictures improved. I will say that I think the primary goal of Player Development people is get the HR guys and we’ve had an extraordinary run on that lately. But the secondary goal is keep the depth at an acceptable level and that we haven’t accomplished. Even now, I think you look at Belt, Brown, Wheeler, Surkamp and then there’s just a cliff of gigantic proportion. And of the four at the top, I’m still not quite sure what we have.

MY DAD WAS WRONG!
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by Roger on May 10, 2011 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

I’m just a dude on the internet, but of the four guys at the top I think we have two above average position players, a #2 starter and a #4 starter.

by EricW on May 10, 2011 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

Odds are low that we hit on all those marks.

MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!

by Roger on May 10, 2011 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

Gasp!

Blasphemer!!!

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 10, 2011 7:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

They seem like safe bets to me. We’ve already seen how close Belt is to breaking out in the majors as a good player. Brown does not have to hit all that well considering his plus defense and speed. Wheeler has done well thus far and has great stuff. Surkamp doesn’t have far to go before he is a decent major league starter.

Injuries seem like the only thing that could bring down these guys.

by EricW on May 10, 2011 7:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

Brown doesn't have to hit at all

He needs to get on base. Seems pretty irrelevant how he does it.

Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)

by quincy0191 on May 10, 2011 7:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

Still, you’re talking about a group of 4 prospects all becoming, not just productive regular major leaguers, but hitting something quite near to the upper end of their potential ceiling. Generally speaking that doesn’t happen very often. And particularly when it comes to pitchers.

You may recall that less than a decade ago we went into the season with three very young pitchers (Ainsworth, Foppert, and Williams) who were all great looking prospects, and all of whom had performed somewhere between wonderfully and brilliantly in their minor league career (and really, brilliantly doesn’t even fully describe Foppert’s minor league career) and two of whom were considered perhaps the two best pitching prospects in baseball.

And I remember at the time Rob Neyer wrote a column saying, essentially, the odds say one will fight injuries and flameout, one will hang around for several years but never really live up to his potential, and one will have a very successful career. And of course Giants fans were up in arms and pelted Neyer with angry responses to that, but in the end even that sober assessment was proven to be overly optimistic.

MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!

by Roger on May 11, 2011 5:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

Peter O'Brien

He’s a catcher from Bethune Cookman with solid power. He’s probably not a C in pro ball though.

Austin Dicharry-RHP-Texas is another guy who was thought of as a good prospect but has been injury riddled this year.

And another guy who hasn’t necessarily bad year but could be a target is Dan Vogelbach. A 1B from a HS in Florida with a bad body (to put it mildly) but has big time raw power

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by Gobroks on May 9, 2011 8:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

We aren't selling jeans here

Jose Flores: .831 OPS in High-A last year, 23 years old. This is his year.
Co-dad of Ryan Scoma with waelwulf, because we're progressive like that.

by free f.p. #14 on May 10, 2011 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions  

I was being sarcastic, I just happened to re-read that section of Moneyball the other day and thought it was appropriate. Of course, that is something to take into account. And damn, 240 is pretty big for anyone under about 6’4" or so.

Jose Flores: .831 OPS in High-A last year, 23 years old. This is his year.
Co-dad of Ryan Scoma with waelwulf, because we're progressive like that.

by free f.p. #14 on May 10, 2011 5:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think he's 6'5

But he’s also a HS SR, and he lost a bunch of weight to get down to 240. But he has legit power

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by Gobroks on May 10, 2011 5:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

I would hope a 1B who’s 6’5", 240 would have serious power. Think he’ll last until pick 86?

Jose Flores: .831 OPS in High-A last year, 23 years old. This is his year.
Co-dad of Ryan Scoma with waelwulf, because we're progressive like that.

by free f.p. #14 on May 10, 2011 6:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

He's probably in that range

He has a fairly strong Florida commitment as well as his body concerns

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by Gobroks on May 10, 2011 9:17 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

Also to give you an idea of his power

He was at a showcase and hit a ball 508 feet.

At the same showcase 1 year earlier (I believe) Bryce Harper hit a ball 502 feet.

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by Gobroks on May 10, 2011 9:19 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

Better or worse hitting prospect than Tommy Joseph?

Don't think he can cut it in the bigs? Brock Bond will be the bigger man and walk walk walk away.

by baetown415 on May 10, 2011 9:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't rememeber exactly how well Joseph was thought of at the time he was drafted

I’d say Joseph is the slightly better prospect but I don’t say it with any certainty

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by Gobroks on May 10, 2011 10:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think that Joseph was definitely seen as a better hitter at the time. If not for his lack of athleticism and the fact that he was probably the slowest guy in the draft then Tommy Boy would have probably been a top 20 pick.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 10, 2011 10:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

Baggs notebook today reminds me that you neglected to mention Shawon, Jr. in your writeup. Look in your heart, Fla, you know he’s going to be ours.

MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!

by Roger on May 11, 2011 5:52 AM PDT reply actions  

Nooooooooo

I’m hoping that somebody like the Cubs grab him before we pick at the end of the 2nd round. I don’t think that the braintrust will be tempteed to pick him before that – given the depth of this draft and our need for pitching.

I did look into Dunston, and the only thing that I liked about his game was the plus speed and bloolines. I’d only take a chance on him if I thought he could play SS – which I don’t. Thankfully, I’m guessing that the Giants have inside info that Jr. is going to go to Vandy on his scholarship unless he gets drafted in the top 15 and is offerred $2M+ to sign.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 11, 2011 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions  

I found this quote to be funny
I tell him all the time: Do what I didn’t do," Shawon Sr. said. "Stay patient".

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by Gobroks on May 11, 2011 4:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

Funny how he doesn’t seem to tell the current crop of SF Giants this same thing.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 11, 2011 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, context: he’s not talking about playing the game in that quote, he’s talking about negotiating deals, going to college as opposed to being in a hurry to start his pro career, etc. I’m sure he still tells his son to hack away when it comes to being in the batter’s box.

MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!

by Roger on May 12, 2011 7:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

Hey Gobroks

obviously too early for serious speculation, but a name that just popped into my head for consideration at #86: Noe Ramirez. Thoughts?

Jose Flores: .831 OPS in High-A last year, 23 years old. This is his year.
Co-dad of Ryan Scoma with waelwulf, because we're progressive like that.

by free f.p. #14 on May 11, 2011 9:21 AM PDT reply actions  

1. Too high of a pick for him.
2. We need pitching now. You guys have drafted 2 guys that have a good chance to both end up at 2B as they move forward.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 11, 2011 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I’m pretty set on a pitcher for the next pick. Guys you think we should look at in that range?

Jose Flores: .831 OPS in High-A last year, 23 years old. This is his year.
Co-dad of Ryan Scoma with waelwulf, because we're progressive like that.

by free f.p. #14 on May 11, 2011 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

Name of a player I don't actually know anything about:

Burch Smith, Oklahoma. 9.67 K/9, 3.22 BB/9, 0.4 HR/9, 3.90 ERA against a 3.69 FIP. Thoughts?

Jose Flores: .831 OPS in High-A last year, 23 years old. This is his year.
Co-dad of Ryan Scoma with waelwulf, because we're progressive like that.

by free f.p. #14 on May 11, 2011 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions  

I’m not a big fan of his, but I alos must admit that I haven’t researched him in-depth. I have seen a video, looked at his stats, an read a thumbnail report on him.

It’s impossible to say for sure until we get closer to the #89 pick, but I have to predict that the real value in pitching over the next 2-3 rounds will be found in the HS ranks. It’s a really deep HS talent pool this year, and most of the best college guys are gone by now. I thin there will still be some HS pitchers that have #1-#3 starter upside at the #89 pick.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 11, 2011 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

If Kyle Smith is still on the board I woud take him in a heartbeat – he’s a steal in round 2. Check out his videos that I posted above and read the reports on him and you cna’t help but be impressed.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 11, 2011 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

I can’t believe that he’s still be aound but Jorge Lopez would also be a steal at #89. I also like Gobroks’s suggestion of Kyle Crick at #89. I think that there’s a fair chance that he may still be on the board then.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 11, 2011 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

I would take Lopez in a second if he’s still around, same with Crick. I don’t know as much about HS pitchers because stats are harder to track, quality of opponent, etc, and I haven’t yet taken the plunge into that in-depth of prospecting.

Jose Flores: .831 OPS in High-A last year, 23 years old. This is his year.
Co-dad of Ryan Scoma with waelwulf, because we're progressive like that.

by free f.p. #14 on May 11, 2011 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

That being said

I would have a real difficult time not taking Jake Hager at #89 if Kyle Smith wasn’t available.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 11, 2011 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

I thought he was projected as a RP

I’m not a fan of taking relievers until the 5th round at the earliest

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by Gobroks on May 11, 2011 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't see either Michael or CSpan moving to 2B

I think Michael can remain at SS and CSpan is either a 3B or a corner OF

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by Gobroks on May 11, 2011 4:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

Some guys to look at in the 2nd round

Crick
Lopez
Billy Flamion-OF-HS (CA)
Kyle Smith-RHP-HS (Fla)
Story
Vogelbach
Brandon Martin-SS-HS (CA)
Jake Hager-HS (NV)
Tyler Goeddel-3B-HS (CA)
Brad Miller-2B-Clemson
James McCann-C-Arkansas
Christian Lopes-2B/SS-HS (CA)
Nick Delmonico-C-HS (TN)
BA Vollmuth-3B-So. Miss

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by Gobroks on May 12, 2011 6:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm going to do my full writeup on guesses probably this weekend...

…but if I were to guess about the player the Giants will choose, Anthony Meo is looking like the most likely guy the Giants would take.

"The knowledge of the game is inversely proportional to the price of the seat." ---Bill Veeck. •Check out the new look of SFDugout.com

by BruteSentiment on May 12, 2011 9:11 PM PDT reply actions  

With the #29 pick? That would be interesting. I don’t like the idea right now, but would reserve final judgement based on what Sabes/Tidrow had to say about why they like him. Is that a total guess, or do you have some inside info on where Tidrow has been travelling to in the past few months?

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 12, 2011 10:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

No inside info...

Just looking at the Giants’ past history, things they like in pitchers, and places where their scouts work most commonly.

"The knowledge of the game is inversely proportional to the price of the seat." ---Bill Veeck. •Check out the new look of SFDugout.com

by BruteSentiment on May 13, 2011 6:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

Interesting

I have full faith in Tidrow, but I’m not a Meo fan (I wouldn’t take him at 49) but if the Giants take a pitcher I won’t argue.

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by Gobroks on May 12, 2011 11:09 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

I like that he’s got that delivery where he looks like he’s throwing the living fuck out of the ball. Not that the Giants should draft based on who I find entertaining.

by Dan from NM on May 13, 2011 6:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think his motion looks a lot like Roy Halladay.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.

by Fla-Giant on May 14, 2011 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

about this trent gilbert kid

You all think Trent Gilbert has an uppercut swing, i beg to differ. His high finish is what i think has many of you confused, i’ve watched him play on the summer circuit and he has a level swing with a high finish that gives the effect of an uppercut. He hits gap to gap line drives, and when he gets one in his kitchen has the power to hit it out. A middle infielder with great hands who hits lefty with great batspeed, as a fan i would love to see this kid in a giants uniform one day.

Here is some footage of him hitting in a game, one is a HR that clears the street on the other side of the fence and the other a line drive double.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=be6RDX58IrU

by poseyforpres76 on May 30, 2011 12:23 PM PDT reply actions  

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