Giants Possible Trades
by Giant Torture on Apr 28, 2011 10:43 AM PDT
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PrintHoly crap, I've visited MLBTR 3-4 times in the last couple of days, and usually the only time I spend on that site is during the offseason and June and July with maybe a visit or two in May and September. Usually I can be found swearing at complete strangers about the possibility that John Bowker will be traded while hoping in all earnestness that if it does happen David Dejesus is involved, or threatening to bring down the entire Interwebs because the Giants have in fact just acquired Jose Guillen. A word to the wise, do not, I repeat do not post and/or read anything on the MLBTR comments section, it will only serve to infuriate you. However, as far as these trade possibilities are concerned, I'm oddly intrigued.
Just in case you missed it, here's a rundown of rumors floating around about the Giants.
Mark DeRosa - Apparently before he went on the DL yesterday, the Marlins were considering making a run at him so that he could play everyday as their 3B. I don't know what the Giants might hope to get in return. Possibly Osvaldo Martinez? His best year in the minors was in AA in which he posted an OPS of .773. Doesn't seem too intriguing, but maybe they have a SS down in the minors that I'm unaware of who might be a long-term solution for the Giants in a year or three. Dealing DeRosa really wouldn't bother me since he's 1. Always hurt 2. Right-handed with meh power and 3. Always hurt.
Nate Schierholtz - Honestly, this makes me has a sad. Even with his "hot" start, I'd still rather see Aaron Rowand go, but I understand that that may not be possible. Still, with Cody Ross in RF and Brandon Belt getting more reps at RF in the Fresno it makes Schierholtz that much more expendable. I think that given Nate's lack of power a real argument could be made for Darren Ford as a more suitable 5th OF. Sure Ford won't hit either, but he's a good defensive replacement who can play an above average center and works better as a pinch-runner than Schierholtz for the water buffalo squad captained by PtB.
Miguel Tejada - No the Giants won't actually be trading him, but they could be looking to deal for a replacement. Tom Verducci recently listed possible replacements as Marco Scutaro, Jose Reyes and JJ Hardy, all of whom would be a welcome improvement over the fail that is Meh-guel Tehahada.
If you like you can check them out for yourself, here.
Honestly, of all these trades the one I'd most like to see is a replacement for Tejada. Hell, I'd take Mark Kroon as a replacement for Tejada at least then I'd be able to root for the guy.
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I'd be on the trade for Reyes bandwagon
Except that our prime prospects are at positions of need. Wheeler, Belt, we need both of them. Brown is a type of player we don’t have. Neal might be expendable, but how do you form a proper package around him? Somehow, I don’t think Rowand+Neal+Runzler gets it done.
"Today I flew the most poorly dressed bad-ass that has ever entered my jet. And he borrowed my pen to do a cross word puzzle." - robotsapproach on Brian Wilson.
Yeah
For all of the talk about Reyes, I don’t see the Giants being able to swing a deal that doesn’t involve Wheeler. I’d be okay with Wheeler if they could somehow negotiate a long-term deal with Reyes, but I just don’t think that’s going to happen. Of course, I could have sworn I heard the name David Wright mentioned as trade bait on the Baseball Today podcast, however, I most likely misheard that and/or it was in jest.
Proud member of the cesspool of ethical bankruptcy known as the McC.
Proud adoptive parent of Brett Bochy, he's my boy now Bruce!
by Giant Torture on Apr 28, 2011 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Wow
I believe that you guys are way off base in what you believe the Mets can get for Reyes. Reyes will be a FA at the end of the season. The best the Mets can expect to get for him would be a mid- to late-first round plus a 1-S comp pick for him. However, almost every team out there has to believe that the Mets are in such a financial bind that they just might not want to offer arb to Reyes in November – which means the Mets would get no compensation for Reyes. Most teams realize that the Mets will be desperate to trade Reyes before the end of July (unless they are somehow still close enough to be considered legit contenders for the division title) for salary relief and to get decent compensation.
Unless some team goes nuts and offers an obscene package for Reyes, he should be available for no more than 2 B-level prospects – and the Mets will be lucky to get that. Also, that type of package only works for most teams (including the Giants) if they could negotiate an understanding with Reyes for a contract extension before the deal goes down.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
I don't think it's off at all
Look at what the Mariners were able to get for a half season of Cliff Lee.
Now Reyes isn’t as good as Lee, but a half season of the best player available via trade can be quite costly.
Gigante. Campeón. Pumpkin. Andrés Torres.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
I don’t think the Mariners got that much for a half season of Lee. More perhaps than what they gave up for a full season of Lee, but not by much.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
Justin Smoak was one of the highest-ranked prospects in all of baseball.
Gigante. Campeón. Pumpkin. Andrés Torres.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
Here
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/rankings/top-100-prospects/2010/269546.html
Baseball America ranked Smoak as the #13 prospect in all of baseball before last year. And they gave him up PLUS others for half a season of Lee.
I think getting Reyes would take at least Wheeler.
Gigante. Campeón. Pumpkin. Andrés Torres.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
Yeah, you’re right. I don’t think as highly of Smoak (particularly as a Mariner, where the home park just crushes the one and only value that he brings to the table). But you’re quite right that from a prospect/value standpoint, he was a huge chip, and one we can’t match at this point. So I guess the hope is some form of owner-driven desperation matched with overplaying their hand.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
Totally different. The Mariners were going to offer Lee arb, and so were the Rangers. They both knew that Lee was going to be one of the top 3-5 ranked type A free agents, so they were guaranteed a mid- to late-first round pick plus a 1-S pick in compensation – in a draft year that was already known to be very deep and strong. The Rangers also were of the mind that they would make a huge push to sign Lee as a FA in the offseason, so getting him on the team was also a way to get him comfortable with the org before the FA season began.
The Mets are dealing from a very weak positon because:
1. Most teams will surmise they won’t offer Reyes arb.
2. The compensation rules for next year are up in the air at this time – it’s possible that teams will get no comp
picks for lost FAs.
Finally, Smoak was not ranked anywhere near #13 overall at the time he was dealt to Seattle – he had failed his pro debut and was floundering in AAA at the time.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
Unless Sandy Alderson is a complete idiot
Of course they’ll offer Reyes arb. Because they know there’s no way in hell he’ll take it.
Gigante. Campeón. Pumpkin. Andrés Torres.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
Not to mention
If he accepts, they can still trade him to someone either during the offseason or midseason next year. The same effects will be in place, and I’d be hard pressed to believe the Mets can’t add Reyes to the payroll on a one year deal.
Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)
At the moment, the whole scenario is more than hypothetical it’s quite probably moot — there’s very good reason to believe that that whole arbitration/compensation system won’t exist so the dance needs not be joined.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
The only reason why
the rangers gave up smoaks was because they had competition from the yankees
Don't necessarily disagree
But the Giants don’t have any B+ level prospects, they have two A to A+ prospects in Belt and Wheeler then it drops off to B or B- type guys. I could see a package of less getting Reyes, but not from the Giants. I mean, would you trade Reyes for Wheeler? Or Reyes for Brown, especially when you have Jason Bay for the next decade and Angel Pagan? Maybe if it’s all that’s out there, but I have to believe someone will offer more.
Proud member of the cesspool of ethical bankruptcy known as the McC.
Proud adoptive parent of Brett Bochy, he's my boy now Bruce!
by Giant Torture on Apr 28, 2011 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Fail
Should read:
I mean, would you trade Reyes forWheelerNeal?
Proud member of the cesspool of ethical bankruptcy known as the McC.
Proud adoptive parent of Brett Bochy, he's my boy now Bruce!
by Giant Torture on Apr 28, 2011 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions
I pretty much agree with you, but I will make a couple of tweaks.
1) I doubt that compensation rules will be the same next year, so I’d guess that you’re best case scenario isn’t realistic (although all FO will no doubt have greater insight into that situation than us and can act accordingly). Also, given that the Mets are historically, one of the few teams to stick to suggested slots, and given their financial issues, I can see a scenario where they wouldn’t even WANT to have 3 1st/1S picks next year.
2) I have a feeling they’re going to want young “major league ready” or young major leaguers in return for Reyes, Beltran, Wright(?) as well as . Whoever it is they pitch overboard, they’ll need to replace them on the field, so possibly a B propsect and a B-ish young guy (Burriss? Rohlinger? Crawford?).
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
I agree
I just don’t see anyone of that caliber in the Giants system? Who’s the B-ish prospect that gets dealt? Neal? Hopefully the Mets are high on him, because outside of him I don’t see anyone.
Proud member of the cesspool of ethical bankruptcy known as the McC.
Proud adoptive parent of Brett Bochy, he's my boy now Bruce!
by Giant Torture on Apr 28, 2011 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions
I wasn’t predicting that the Giants would trade for Reyes – I highly doubt they will – my point was that some were setting the bar way too high when trying to imagine what it would take for the Mets to let him go. I agree that the Giants don’t match up well with the Mets, so it would likely have to be a 3-team trade if the Giants were to get him (which I’m not predicting due to the FA thing). If I had to guess on the type of deal the Mets might consider it would be something like Adrianza + Surkamp, or Peguero + Surkamp, or Tommy Joseph + Surkamp.
I still stand firm that the best target for the Giants is Boston. They have Scutaro and 2 good young SS – Lowrie and Iglesias. Iglesias is struggling with the bat in his first month in AAA, but he’s major league-ready on defense right now. Lowrie has taken the starting SS spot away from Scutaro.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
Scutaro is at best a sideways move. I just don’t see the value in that.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
I don’t want Scutaro either, unless he’s basically free. The targets would be Lowrie or Iglesias. One would have to think that the Sox won’t give up Lowrie now, so Iglesias is the man. We could probably work out a deal where we take Scutaro off their hands (along with the $6.5M they still owe him) and get Iglesias for prospects. Boston needs catching, so Tommy Joseph would be 1 guy to dangle, or maybe Monnell, then throw in Crawford and another prospect. Something along those lines.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Keep an eye on my son, Jake "The Jacksonville Rifle" Dunning. From SS to the mound - exclusively toeing the rubber since March 2010.
Why get yet another glove-first SS when we already have two in the system in Crawford and Adrianza?
Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)
Iglesias has a much better scouting rep than Adrianza. As far as immediate use goes, Adrianza is not even available, since injured.
And Iglesias, two years Crawford’s junior, hit better in AA, so clearly he’s a better bet to actually become a legitimate major league shortstop.
My adopted son: Jose Casilla.
Man of the Crazy Sink. And owner of a 103 ZiPS ERA+ in 2011.
Because, neither Crawford or Adrianza project to be able to hit enough to be everyday players. You’re basically looking at two guys who would put up sub .300 OBP’s. Iglesias has been compared to Hanley Ramirez, although I doubt the hit tool is that good, you get the idea.
Proud member of the cesspool of ethical bankruptcy known as the McC.
Proud adoptive parent of Brett Bochy, he's my boy now Bruce!
by Giant Torture on Apr 29, 2011 5:12 AM PDT up reply actions
Iglesias has been compared to Hanley Ramirez
Whah???? I can’t even begin to imagine what the comparison is there. Just two completely different skillsets. Also, I have to say I’ve never seen such a comparison myself.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
He's probably thinking of stuff like this.
Jose Iglesias: Back to the future
Red Sox shortstop prospect reminiscent of Hanley Ramirez
This was written by “Joe McDonald of ESPN Boston”. Clearly a creditable scout. The only comparison is ‘hey, they were both in the Red Sox organization and are not Americans, look at that!’
Anyways, to try to make reading this comment worth your time, I would like to provide a LOLquote from the article.
“He’s a good player. He’s a special player,” Iglesias said of Ramirez. “He can do it all.”
“I don’t know him,” Ramirez said of Iglesias.
My adopted son: Jose Casilla.
Man of the Crazy Sink. And owner of a 103 ZiPS ERA+ in 2011.
Thanks
I couldn’t remember where I saw one compared to the other, but now that you job my memory I do remember it was in that vein. Still Iglesias is supposed to have enough of a bat to stick at the big league level, but neither Crawford or Adrianza do.
Proud member of the cesspool of ethical bankruptcy known as the McC.
Proud adoptive parent of Brett Bochy, he's my boy now Bruce!
by Giant Torture on Apr 29, 2011 9:36 AM PDT up reply actions
That is definitely true. The scouting reports on Iglesias’ bat are much more favorable.
My adopted son: Jose Casilla.
Man of the Crazy Sink. And owner of a 103 ZiPS ERA+ in 2011.
Right, but essentially Iglesias is a glove first SS who they hope can hit enough; Hanley was a bat first SS who they hoped could field enough.
They were both Red Sox farmhands, and both advanced to upper levels at young ages, but that’s really where the comp ends.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
Absolutely.
This was written by "Joe McDonald of ESPN Boston". Clearly a creditable scout. The only comparison is ‘hey, they were both in the Red Sox organization and are not Americans, look at that!’
My adopted son: Jose Casilla.
Man of the Crazy Sink. And owner of a 103 ZiPS ERA+ in 2011.
I have wanted the Giants to trade for David Wright forever. But currently I don’t see where we would put him with Pablo and Huff at the corners, and Belt next in line.
That's not that big a challenge
Have Pablo play 1B primarily with him having 3B when Wright gets the day off.
Have Huff play LF (better than RF) but get plenty of reps at 1B when Pablo sits and plays 3B.
Presumably Belt is then in RF
So where’s Ross and Burrell? What happens when Neal is ready, quite possibly next year? Why are we trying to push Pablo off third when he’s quite capable of playing there? Wright’s a great player, and I’d love his bat, but if we’re going to spend the prospect they better be wholly mediocre or we should get someone else, like a real SS.
Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)
I think that given Nate’s lack of power a real argument could be made for Darren Ford as a more suitable 5th OF.
I will really miss that arm though. I’ll admit it, I’m a Nate fan and always have been. The vroom is awesome, but that rocket attached to Nate’s shoulder is tough to replace.
I'm a Giants Fan, but I'll always be rooting for Matt Downs
Adopted Son:Dan Burkhart , Future Backup To Buster Posey.
Definitely
I don’t want to see Nate go, however, I would be happy for him if he was sent somewhere where he could finally play every day.
Proud member of the cesspool of ethical bankruptcy known as the McC.
Proud adoptive parent of Brett Bochy, he's my boy now Bruce!
by Giant Torture on Apr 28, 2011 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions
That would be one of the only good things about Nate getting traded.
I'm a Giants Fan, but I'll always be rooting for Matt Downs
Adopted Son:Dan Burkhart , Future Backup To Buster Posey.
Wasn’t that supposed to be the one good thing about Bowker getting traded? And Frandsen? And Lewis?
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
True
Although I didn’t feel that way about FLewis.
Proud member of the cesspool of ethical bankruptcy known as the McC.
Proud adoptive parent of Brett Bochy, he's my boy now Bruce!
by Giant Torture on Apr 28, 2011 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions
LOL…Poor John and Kevin…jury’s still out on Fred..in a number of ways.
I'm a Giants Fan, but I'll always be rooting for Matt Downs
Adopted Son:Dan Burkhart , Future Backup To Buster Posey.
Nate's arm and Ford's speed are interesting comparables
Both are fun as hell to watch, but probably neither that significant in terms of actual wins over the number of games those guys are likely to play.
"If it's weird, you know it's probably Wilson's." - Matt Cain
Farewell, Andrew Romo. Don't forget to write.
sorta like my penis
Lots of fun to watch and talk a but…
…wait for it…
…it isn’t very satisfying in the end
The thong is, it happened.
by Goofus on Apr 29, 2011 3:50 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
This made laugh
You are a sick individual.
Proud member of the cesspool of ethical bankruptcy known as the McC.
Proud adoptive parent of Brett Bochy, he's my boy now Bruce!
by Giant Torture on Apr 29, 2011 5:13 AM PDT up reply actions
Giants get: minor leaguers
Atlanta Braves get: Mark DeRosa
Heyward lines a shot off the back of Collin Ballester, the Nats' pitcher and into left center field. The hit was so brutal, even Heyward could feel the vibration coming back at him.
by ChopMaster on Apr 28, 2011 3:01 PM PDT reply actions 3 recs
Vague.
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
Deal
Carter Jurica!
"The trouble with baseball is that it is not played the year round." - Gaylord Perry
I'M A GIRL
by GrahamCrakalaka on Apr 28, 2011 9:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Uhhhh, no! minor leaguers and prospects are NOT the same thing. but anyway, the Braves have one of the deepest farms in all of baseball, and possibly the deepest pitching depth. So, they’d be happy to give the Giants any of the prospects NOT in the Top 10 on TalkingChop’s front page.
Heyward lines a shot off the back of Collin Ballester, the Nats' pitcher and into left center field. The hit was so brutal, even Heyward could feel the vibration coming back at him.
So, they’d be happy to give the Giants any of the prospects NOT in the Top 10
Here’s to ChopMaster not being the Braves GM
"Is Prince Fielder a legitimate threat to your bag of potato chips?" -Bronn (Braun?)
This depends
whether the braves will pay his salary or if they want the giants to if they make the giants pay then the giants should get prospects
Reyes
I think, assuming they are allowed a shot to negotiate an extention with him, I would deal Wheeler, Neal, Crawford & Runzler to the Mets for Reyes. I think it’s worth it.
Also, I really hope Burriss can start hitting, because I’d rather have him than Fontenot as a MI reserve, and given his speed, would reduce the need for Ford. I think they should definitely keep Nate, & ideally they’d be able to trade Rowand.
That seems to be close to a fair exchange of prospects for Reyes.
How worthwhile it is really depends on what the Giants’ payroll will be over the next few years. If capped at $120 million, they literally do not have the money necessary to negotiate a sufficient extension with Reyes without sacrificing Lincecum or Cain down the road. Couple that with the loss of prospects (OK, really prospect, as Wheeler’s the only blue chip of the lot) and it’s really not at all worth it.
On the other hand, if Bow Tie is willing to push the payroll up to $135 million, the question becomes much harder. I still think I wouldn’t do it. Dumpster diving at one position on the diamond is a small price to pay for keeping the farm system healthy.
My adopted son: Jose Casilla.
Man of the Crazy Sink. And owner of a 103 ZiPS ERA+ in 2011.
How on Earth is that worth it? We can hardly afford Reyes. We won’t be able to afford Sanchez either, so when he leaves after 2012… who replaces him? Plus Neal will be a very affordable player to have in the outfield for 6 years while we sink money in keeping Wilson, Lincecum and Cain.
At least
Possibly more with the Yankees and Red Sox looking to spend and needing pitching. I don’t think we’ll be able to retain either guy if they hit FA.
MLBTR is looking at a $25M arbitration award for Timmy either next year or the year after. His FA worth is even higher.
Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)
Why would the Rays trade Zobrist away?
Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)
Because they are not contenders
and hes 29
15-13
3 out of the East and 0.5 out of the WC. Without Evan Longoria. If the Rays aren’t contenders neither are we.
Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)
I’d like to trade 2011 and future considerations of 2014 for a return of 2010.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
Dead weight..
Looking at our roster now, and estimating who will be here and who wont in the next 2-3 years the giants look to have roughly 70mil coming off the books in the form of Zito/Rowand/Huff/Burrell/Tejada/Derosa/Ross. Those are all players that are unnecassary and would probably hinder the team if the didn’t take a huge paycut past that point (minus maybe burrell). So I mean how much of that do we need to set aside for Pablo/Belt/Timmy/Cain/Sanchez/Posey/Wilson? Posey/Pablo/belt all are paid under a million dollars.. I love the idea of Reyes but if we are looking to keep that nucleus together he does seem a bit pricey.
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