Little League Sportsmanship Question
I got this email from the commissioner of the 9-10 year old baseball league that I am coaching for: Any coach that sends his kid into the batters box and tells them not to swing, while a kid on the other team is struggling pitching, should be strung up by their buster browns out in center field and left there for the rest of the day. AND, if I were the umpire (and you can trust we will address this) I would call a strike on the very next pitch regardless of where it was. This is NOT baseball and should never happen. If you're doing it with only the bottom of the lineup, then we ought to allow the kids to go out to wherever you're strung up and give you lashes with a wet noodle. This is bad sportsmanship and a real crappy thing to teach all the kids, especially the little guy that might want to go up there and swing the bat. Don't do it, please." I was wondering your thoughts, is it really unsportsman like? I personally think its OK and I was one of the coaches telling my players not to swing on wild pitchers. Thoughts?
about 1 year ago
say hey nation
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I can see how there might be a point to this email hidden deep in the annals of its vitriol, but it’s highly unprofessional.
If this guy is worried about coaches telling their lesser players to not swing because it will ultimately result in an out, I understand the sentiment, but coaches encouraging their players to"make the pitcher throw strikes" is a phase uttered across all levels of baseball.
Was this “instruction” yelled at the batter from the dugout? Perhaps there was a sense of showing up or belittling the pitcher that was an issue?
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by Smotheredinhugs on Apr 12, 2011 6:56 AM PDT reply actions
No, I took the 1st three hitters of the inning and told them this.
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by say hey nation on Apr 12, 2011 7:09 AM PDT up reply actions
There’s a difference between ’don’t swing at bad pitches’ and ’don’t swing the bat’. While I don’t have any problem teaching kids to wait for a good pitch to hit, I think it’s kind of crappy to make a little kid go up there and forbid them to swing the bat.
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by Johnny Disaster on Apr 12, 2011 7:32 AM PDT reply actions
What I was doing was more with my undisciplined hitters and I was telling them don’t swing until the 1st called strike. I’m trying to get them to get a sense of the K zone, b/c these are kids that k’d the 1st time through the order on 3 pitches above there head.
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by say hey nation on Apr 12, 2011 7:35 AM PDT up reply actions
Once you graduate from T-ball, learning when and how to “take a strike” is fundamental (among other plate approaches). There is nothing cynical about employing that approach at all, even if the kids are 9-10. As for the sportsmanship aspect of it, you may consider (if you haven’t already) to instruct your hitters to maintain their stances while taking (no resting bats on shoulders, etc.). Not only is this NOT a crime, but this is good baseball.
Also good baseball: 1) telling your struggling pitcher that there is no pressure to miss bats if you know the other team is taking, 2) taking your struggling pitcher off the mound (the preferred option for a young kid) and giving someone else a chance to pitch.
“Penalty Strikes” outside the zone called by an umpire is, however, bad baseball at any level, but ESPECIALLY in Little League… Kids do not need to be distracted from the game by the politics outside the foul lines. I understand that is just a half-joking threat by a frustrated League Commish, but that kind of crap happens enough in youth ball to warrant a firm line drawn in the sand. Umpires should not be given the latitude to impose those kinds of calls (or “make-up” calls, etc.).
by KrazyKrabMeat on Apr 12, 2011 9:13 AM PDT up reply actions
"Penalty Strikes" outside the zone called by an umpire is, however, bad baseball at any level, but ESPECIALLY in Little League
I would agree with this, but we ( as a league) do ask the umpires to “expand” the strike zone for our 8U to 10U kids. As most of our umpires are High School umpires with a strike zone the size of a Tuna can, we encourage them to make the strike zone a little “taller”. prior to the start of each game. Kids this size are not that accurate and primarily have “one” pitch. This has the effect of encouraging the hiiters to swing at pitches that may be just outside the black, or at the top or bottom of the zone. It helps develop hand/eye coordination for the hitters and doesn’t shame the pitcher that is missing slightly with the pitch. As long as the umpire is consistant with the zone.
In order to encourage pitcher development in the younger divisions, we also have inning limits and walk limits. The pitcher can only physically walk one player in the 8U and 10U. Coach pitches to every walked batter after the first walk. The hitter assumes the count, and the Coach has three pitches. Strikes are called on Coach pitches. The only exception is that the hitter can stay in the box for additional pitches as long as they foul off pitches until they strike out or hit. The pitcher still gets their work in on the mound, but can’t “walk the lineup”. This gets the infield involved in the game and makes the hitting team have to “hit” the ball to advance runners.
Let’s face it, pitching is a skill that is mastered with extreme repetition, and most parents are unable or unwilling to devote the time to throwing with their kid every other day. Most cannot afford instruction for kids this age, and may not want to if the kid is playing basketball, soccer, and football as well. They will only get better by practing their motion and mechanics. By allowing and compensating for time in game situations, these kids come to understand that if they want to pitch, they must work at themselves.
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I agree
Especially about maintaining their stances while taking a pitch, however I would add that I think you should instruct them to track the ball into the glove or at least until it crosses the plate as it trains their eyes to track pitches and also hopefully not swing with their eyes closed as LL’ers are prone to do.
If this is an issue for those guys, another thing you can do in practice is when you’re working with pitchers have the free swingers stand in the box to track pitches and call balls and strikes, with the catcher or someone else letting them know when they’re wrong. It helps the pitcher get practice with someone standing in the box, but also helps the hitter better define their strike zone and train their eyes to track pitches.
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by Giant Torture on Apr 13, 2011 7:54 AM PDT up reply actions
Wow, that coaching tip is great!
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by say hey nation on Apr 13, 2011 8:20 AM PDT up reply actions
Agree: beats the heck out of the extended bunting practice I was relegated to during cold streaks, lol.
by KrazyKrabMeat on Apr 13, 2011 9:01 AM PDT up reply actions
Re: Sportsmanship, I forgot to add: You may also consider (if you don’t already) to tell your hitters IN CONFIDENCE to take the first strike, and refrain from yelling it across the diamond. But of course, you already do this :)
by KrazyKrabMeat on Apr 12, 2011 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions
This is the key difference IMO
Kids know that coaches only tell them not to swing if they can’t hit (at the very least, they understand something is wrong if the coach tells them that, since you’re supposed to swing in baseball), on the off chance they’ll get walked. So you’re not helping the kid there, you’re just telling him he can’t hit. But if you tell the kid “Hey, look, this guy can’t find the strike zone, so maybe take a few pitches to make sure he’s throwing strikes before you swing” that seems not only appropriate but generally a good lesson.
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I don’t think that’s the case, especially if they just pulled a Panda—ca. 2010—and swung at three balls over their head. Teaching them some discipline is one of the chief benefits for kids in playing team sports as the vast majority of them won’t play baseball beyond High School. If it is true that the kid can’t hit, I don’t believe in destroying their self-confidence, but in a world that increasingly coddles children to their own detriment, sports is one of the last bastions for hope in teaching our children that: 1. Life isn’t fair 2. Sometimes people are better than you at something, sometimes they’re worse and 3. Life isn’t fair.
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by Giant Torture on Apr 13, 2011 7:59 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah
But telling a kid not to swing doesn’t teach them that, it just tells them that they suck. So badly that you think there’s a better chance of them getting on base by not trying.
It’s one thing if the kid is doing everything right and still not succeeding. But if they’re making fixable, common mistakes like being too aggressive, I don’t see what’s wrong with trying to change that so they might succeed. I’d rather tell a kid they can’t hit when I’m sure they can’t hit.
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Telling kids to swing at anything when a pitcher is wild
Does nothing to help that pitcher learn how to throw strikes. If he is looking at this rationally, he would realize that it is a learning experience for everyone.
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by Lars The Wanderer on Apr 12, 2011 8:28 AM PDT reply actions
At this age level, I totally agree with the commissioner. If you were coaching 16 year olds, I’d totally agree with you. I’m not sure where my break point would be, but at this young age it’s more about the experience than the results.
You don’t tell your hitters to not swing. You hope they understand that their goal is to swing at strikes and ignore balls (at every level!), but you don’t tell them to purposely try to belittle the opposing pitcher. At that age, you let nature take its course.
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I don’t think that it is above a 9 year old’s head to teach him/her about the importance of getting to a favorable count where the pitcher is most likely to float a beachball over the plate.
by KrazyKrabMeat on Apr 12, 2011 9:17 AM PDT up reply actions
I’m not sure where my break point would be, but at this young age it’s more about the experience than the results.
Having run a youth sports non-profit for over 12 years, I would agree with this. The difficulty for us was enhancing the experience without “dumbing down” the game. See the post upthread about the pitcher inning and wlak limits. We tried everything over a period of about five years to keep the players involved without hurting the actual game. Our “sister” league across town does not allow Coach pitching in the 10U age division, and uses a Tee in the 8U division. Their games are two innings in an 1.5 hour time limit with scores like 12-4. Our 10U divisions average four innings and are generally under eight runs total. Our 8U divisions average three innings and there is no Tee. You must hit the ball to get on base. The reason our 8U division is “live” is that our parents requested it. They were tired of “T-Ball” and the everybody gets a trophy for being a winner mentality. The 8U has a Division Champion and a Tournament Champion just like all other age divisions. The only exception for us is the 6U division where players are 4-6 years old. They use Coach pitching and have a Tee, and no "standings are kept.
The break point for our league is the 12U division. Our 12U, 14U, 16U and 18U divisions all use the same rules ( with only pitching distance separating the 12U) . Our goal is to teach them the game, with modifications appropriate for the age level. Mechanics and Fundamentals are are appropriate for every age level. My 14U All Star Team from last year had eight of the twelve players make their Varsity High School teams as freshman. We must be doing something right.
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I didn't know Dunston was a Little League commissioner.
I think this boils down to the intent and the score of the game. Teaching kids to be selective, as it sounds like you are, is fine but telling kids not to swing to take advantage of the opposing pitcher’s struggles is wrong at that age level. In a blowout, I think it should be a shins to chin strike zone where kids are encouraged to swing if it’s close.
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by say hey nation on Apr 12, 2011 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions
as someone who heard opposing managers yell at their players to move in whenever i stepped up to the plate, i have no problem with one team taking advantage of the other team’s “weaknesses.” 9 and 10-year-olds are old enough to know that baseball should be fun, but it, like life, isn’t always fair or considerate of your feelings. plus, it sucks to lose, and it’s awesome to win, especially when pizza is involved afterwards.
i would have done the exact same thing: tell your players quietly in the dugout to wait for the pitcher to throw a strike. to me, it’s no different than telling someone to wait for their pitch. yelling it from the dugout, however, is not ok. it’s important not to show up your opponent, regardless of age. that’s one of the things baseball taught me, but i understand that not everyone can or will use the dickishness of others as motivation,
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This is what happens however when adults try to determine what is the “right” way to play a game. You would not believe some of the complaints that surface in a youth sports league. There is pressure from National Affiliations, Regional Commisioners, and Parents. Some are rules and most are opinions. Because these people are our “customers” we do need to pay attention to their concerns in order to survive as a league.
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When we were kids we just picked up our equipment, such as it was, and headed to an empty field / lot / piece of pavement. Is there such a thing as neighborhood pick up games anymore? I remember playing that way from 4th grade on. I don’t see it much anymore. And we live next door to a park. Though I guess the kids would have to find a way to remove the homeless people from the field before they could play.
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I don’t know about your area, but in mine people don’t really know each other, and there aren’t enough kids around to do that kind of thing anyway. Even if there were, I’m betting they’d rather spend their time playing video games anyway.
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This is sadly true
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by Giant Torture on Apr 13, 2011 8:01 AM PDT up reply actions
We actually got a note put in our HOA newsletter asking that kids not play on the streets because it’s not safe. I promptly ignored it. Our kids are two of the few that play out in front, and I don’t intend to change that. How else will other kids know that there are kids to play with?
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by say hey nation on Apr 13, 2011 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions
Children are the most dangerous game.
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by howtheyscored on Apr 13, 2011 8:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Really?
I wouldn’t imagine they’d be particularly difficult to hunt down. They’re so small and dumb and easily frightened.
Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)
IMO
there’s a HUGE difference between “don’t swing” and “don’t swing until you’ve taken strike 1”. One takes the bat completely out of the kid’s hands, while the other can help to develop their eye. Also, telling a kid not to swing at all because a 9 year old is having trouble finding the strike zone is a little dickish.
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Yeah, warn them by saying “don’t swing at a bad pitch” is cool, or just implying that they should be selective with their swings is good. Telling them not to swing is bad, especially with 9-10 year olds, IMO. I wouldn’t up the competitiveness until 12-13.
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