Being A Giants Fan In 2011: Red Sox Redux?
As you all know, the Giants announced today that Brandon Belt made the team and Travis Ishikawa didn't.
In the grand scheme of things this doesn't bother me at all, and from a Giants fan perspective I won't complain about it for the simple fact that I resolved after the World Series last year that I wouldn't complain about anything Giants-related for a decade at least. As far as I'm concerned we're playing with house money and they could go 0-1,620 for the next decade and I won't lose any sleep at night.
Whether it's the right move from a baseball standpoint remains to be seen.
What is clear, at least to me, is that this feels like a mistake. It feels like the Giants did Ishikawa wrong, and I feel bad for him personally and am worried for the organization and its fanbase karmically. To me, the Ishikawa decision is a bad omen and the sign of a dangerous mentality.
I'll explain after the jump...
First the fan perspective, because we are us and they are them.
I read Twitter accounts and game recaps all spring long about how the fans in Scottsdale were booing guys like Aaron Rowand and Barry Zito. The news disappointed me greatly. It reminded me of the 2005 Boston Red Sox. I remember clearly the 2004 postseason. Those fans, filled with angst and feeling incredibly tortured, just like we were last October, hoping and praying for a miracle against the Yankees, dreading every pitch of the game and watching through covered eyes, barely being able to bare being at the game (maybe due to the uncomfortable Fenway seats, HEY-O).
When their guys managed to pull off the unthinkable, not just making the comeback from 3-0 down against the Yankees but also following that up with an easy four game dismissal of the Cardinals, I remember the celebration. Their 86-year curse was over and grown men were openly weeping, holding signs about finally being able to die in peace. Their victory not only brought relief to millions of New England souls, but it launched a cottage industry that spawned at least 20 different books about that team, DVDs, all sorts of merchandise, etc. All of a sudden the "Sawx" were everyone's favorite team (or at least their second favorite) and there weren't enough seats on their bandwagon. Bill Simmons, who of course released his own book after that year, felt almost bittersweet about what their championship wrought, complaining bitterly about all the people he'd see on the streets in Los Angeles with brand new Boston caps, and pink ones for the women and girls.
There's nothing new on the surface about having new fans, and it's what every organization wants. However, what couldn't have been predicted was that along with those new fans came added expectations. All of a sudden those same season-ticket holders who would've given their left arms for just one championship weren't satisfied with only one. The very same people who were hailing that 2004 team as heroes were lustily booing Keith Foulke and Mark Bellhorn a few months later, and these guys were far bigger contributors to that Boston team both in the regular season and playoffs than Zito, Rowand or Ishikawa were for us. Honestly, you think what B-Weezy did last October was impressive? Check out Foulke's work in October of 2004 and think about the fact that he did it with a "fastball" not much better than Zito's.
I remember watching the Sox a bit during that 2005 year and I couldn't believe hearing those boos. It disgusted me to my core to the point that I felt dirty myself. Right then and there I told myself I was ending any association to the Sox and I would no longer have "an AL team." I'd root for the Giants and the Giants only and that other league would be a complete mystery to me save for the All-Star game and the postseason. A lot easier that way actually, big time-saver.
I really, REALLY, don't want what happened to Red Sox fans to happen to us. Those people are absolutely no different than Yankees fans now. Greedy, entitled, whiny, arrogant pigs, basically. They think postseason baseball isn't just some gift but their birthright. They think that their only competition is the Yankees and that the rest of the teams in the AL exist to be their de-facto farm system and to fill out the schedule. They demand that their ownership spend and spend and spend, wanting winners at all cost. Their fans, both transplants and bandwagoners, take over road games at Tampa Bay, Baltimore, Oakland, Toronto, and probably a few other cities I'm omitting.
Do you really want that to be us? Pat Riley talks about champion teams falling victim to "the disease of more," but does it have to happen to the fans too? It's already well underway, by the looks of it. We've taken over every stadium in the division except for LA's, and I would expect more support now in New York, Pittsburgh, Houston and Florida. The bandwagon will be full and there will be expectations.
But booing Zito and Rowand will still be disgusting and unseemly.
Not to sound like Bruce Jenkins here (he actually called me a cocky little shit in an email once, a decade ago), but Zito, Rowand, Ishikawa and Schierholtz all made more contributions to that 2010 team than their stats suggest. No matter how much he struggled after the All-Star break, Zito kept the Giants afloat the first two months, as he was their best pitcher in April and May. Rowand won us games against Atlanta, at Florida and at New York and a had a couple of big hits in the playoffs vs. Philly and Texas. Schierholtz won us an extra-inning game against Arizona late in the year and made countless contributions with his defense in right field late in games and as a spot starter. Ishikawa helped us break a 7-game losing streak by hitting a granny against Ubaldo Jimenez and drew a key walk to start a rally at Atlanta in game 3 of the LDS.
All these guys were legit members of that 2010 team that did something that all the San Francisco Giants teams before them could not, and they should never, ever be booed, in my opinion. Not this year, not any year. By doing so, not only do you establish yourself as an ungrateful lout of a fan with poor perspective, but odds are strong you're also an ass.
And please spare me the argument that pro sports are a meritocracy and a business and not a place for sentiment. Of course sentiment has a place in sports. Without sentiment, sports is just exercise. If sentiment doesn't matter, why even have a ring ceremony on opening day? Why even give out rings or for that matter why even keep score? Why should the players and the fans care about the results of their at-bats and pitches if none of it matters? If the 2010 Giants don't make you sentimental, then you've missed the whole point. You're not seeing the forest for the trees.
Honestly, if there's one thing I dislike about the age we live in, with message boards and blogs and all the advanced statistics (not blaming them, just saying they play a part in this), it's that now every sports fan on the internet, seems to relish playing general manager, and not just the usual "get rid of that bum" way, but in that robotic, detached, unsentimental fantasy-baseball way where the people in the jerseys truly don't matter, their past accomplishments don't register and they're all just baseball cards in uniforms. This new-school fan wants to take all the emotion and sentiment out of the game and is obsessed about building the best possible roster for the next day, the next year, always wanting to build the Yankees of the 50's or late 90's.
I don't like it and I think it diminishes what it is to truly be a fan, which is to watch the games and to build relationships, however fake and one-sided, with their players and teams. Theo Epstein and Brian Sabean do what they do because it's their job. They're well compensated for it. We shouldn't necessarily strive for their burden and I think we'd be better off, especially coming off a championship season, if we just sat back, and in the words of Jeff Kent, "enjoyed the game more."
I don't care if you call me a sentimental fool, I absolutely think it's wrong that Ishikawa won't get his day in the sun on Opening Day, wearing a Giants uniform as he gets his ring. It was one thing for the team to lose Uribe and Renteria, their contracts were up and free agency is inevitable in sports. But did they really have to promote Belt right away? Couldn't they have waited a couple weeks? It would've made sense from a financial standpoint because of his arbitration clock and from a common sense standpoint. What's wrong with letting the kid prove he can rake AAA for a month and letting Ishikawa enjoy some at bats and some cheers at AT&T?
Furthermore, I don't think Belt deserves to be on that opening day lineup. It's just wrong. Those nine guys who take the field to defend their title for that first road and home game should be guys who contributed to that 2010 title. It should be the defending champions, just to make a statement. What is Belt defending? He didn't win squat. For that same reason I'd start Fontenot over Tejada on opening day, but that's just me.
Belt doesn't need the pressure of having to perform right away for the defending champs anyway. You know, the Giants have been extraordinarily lucky that all their hyped prospects of late have been spectacular successes, from Cain to Lincecum to Posey to Bumgarner. Eventually the law of averages has to catch up to them, right? Who's to say that Belt won't be the Cinderella that turns into a pumpkin, or at the least into J.R. Phillips? Aren't we due for one of those? I hope I'm wrong about the kid and he turns into a superstar, but I have a bad feeling about making him an opening day regular.
I know my sentiments won't be popular and I'll get razzed here, but what can I say, I'm a sentimental guy. I waited a long time for these guys to win one, and I'm not about to forget it easily. I just want the fans and the organization itself to have the proper respect for that team. I don't want us to turn into the Yankees, the Red Sox or the Phillies. It's good for the standings, but bad for the soul.
Finally, if the organization is truly a meritocracy and just cares about winning, then when Ross comes off the DL they better release Rowand instead of Schierholtz. If they keep Rowand instead just because of his contract I'll be so pissed I'll burn the stadium down.
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
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1. Never compare us to Red Sox fans.
2. Brandon belt should be on the team because he will probably be the 5th or 6th best hitter on the team. Your arguments against it are pretty weak.
Rest of it is pretty good though.
Carter Jurica!
"The trouble with baseball is that it is not played the year round." - Gaylord Perry
by GrahamCrakalaka on Mar 30, 2011 9:39 PM PDT reply actions
I'm in this line
You had me until you turned on Belt. By your reasoning, Tejada shouldn’t be allowed on the field either opening day and the Giants should just start Fontenot at SS. What about the years and years of hard work Belt had to put in to reach this level, by favoring Ishikawa you’re not really being fair to Belt or the fans who followed his meteoric rise last year. Of course, life isn’t fair, so I’m not arguing for fairness here, but since you seem to be I thought I’d point that out. Sorry to be so negative though, cut this in half and it’s great.
I'm finally proud of the fact that I went to VCU and fittingly it has nothing to do with academics!
Proud adoptive parent of Brett Bochy, he's my boy now Bruce!
by Giant Torture on Mar 31, 2011 5:29 AM PDT up reply actions
I agree. You couldn’t have expressed my feelings better. Everyone contributed last year, and we tend to forget that because we want the team to be good this year and future years. I’ve watched Rowand on our team for the last couple of years and I feel bad for him (despite his atrocious stance), mainly because he obviously tries hard but is getting nothing out of it. The fact is, for any team to win it all, it takes some luck, and there is no guarantee that “the magic” is going to continue this year. Each player played a key part of last season.
Though I am extraordinarily excited about Belt’s potential, I don’t see why he gets promoted right now. When Ross comes back, he should get a spot in the starting lineup, but if Belt is up and playing well, then Burrell will probably either platoon or get a backup spot. And if Belt isn’t playing well, then he’ll be sent down in the middle of the season, which isn’t really good for any top prospect. Belt has the potential, but we haven’t seen how he handles real major league pitching (and spring training is not real major league pitching). I think the organization is depending on him too much to be Posey 2.0, and I’m worried they might rush him. Honestly, I had no problem with the way the team handled Posey last year.
Plus, I liked Ishikawa. He’s a cool guy.
No one will boo zito
Rowand on the other hand, has kind of pissed off the fanabase with his suckiness and unwillingness to be flexible.
Proud adopted parent of Miguel Tejada. No rings, but dude won the AL MVP once.
I think this is a little unfair to Rowand.
Yeah, he has been stinking up the joint pretty badly since last spring, but I think the way he handled the whole situation last year was very classy and professional and one of the reasons the team had the chemistry and success it did in 2010.
If you remember when Rowand originally signed with the Giants, he was given the team leader label and was to be a role model for all the younger players. Imagine how hard it must have been for him to be benched last year. How many players making the money he is would have kept his mouth shut and tried to continue to be a good supportive teammate?
As far as I know, he has never whispered shit to the press or caused trouble in the clubhouse. I think too much is made of the centerfield thing and if that is the worst you can come up with for him causing trouble or being a primadona then I’d say you really don’t understand these terms. After seeing the troubles that a disgruntled player can cause to a team, I think I can safely say that Rowand’s attitude last season and the way he took his demotion had a lot to do with the ability of the team to focus on winning and not clubhouse nonsense and it enabled them to win the division.
Rowand was booed on Monday night.
Still the father of two-time Cy Young Award winner Tim Lincecum.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
booing a player in a meaningless preseason game is cold. Doing so after winning the World Series is even more cold.
by Dingoes Ate My Baby on Mar 31, 2011 7:56 AM PDT up reply actions
Dude, Ishi pretty much sucks
Get over it.
Don't think he can cut it in the bigs? Brock Bond will be the bigger man and walk walk walk away.
This
Ishikawa is a one-dimensional player whose upside is virtually nil.
31 May 2007, 21:38 EST - the last time Matteh's career W-L wasn't below .500
"You never wake up the baby." - E. Renteria, 01 August 2010
Lowering the Quality of Internet Discourse Since 1985™
by S.F. Giangst on Mar 31, 2011 6:38 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah.
I’m not sure if Belt being brought up is good or bad but i do know I don’t mind seeing Ishi go. Good luck to him in the future though.
You know...
I was excited that Belt made the team, but you have a point.
I think I would enjoy seeing Ishikawa out there with Fontenot at SS for opening day. Why not? Maybe it costs us one game, maybe not. Anything that remonds me of last October makes me happy.
by BrianIsAwesome on Mar 30, 2011 11:17 PM PDT reply actions
You make some interesting points, but I disagree with a few of them.
Regarding Belt, I understand the argument that he needs more time in AAA. I still think that would be a good move, but I think I trust Sabean etc. enough to be okay with this. I’m excited about Belt being on the roster.
Regarding sentimentality, that probably is a good thing in fans. I’m sentimental as hell. However, Giants management should not be sentimental. Their job is to win next year. Past success means nothing to them come first pitch tomorrow. Their job is to put the best possible team on the field. Ishikawa is a good guy, but on this team he no longer has a use. He’s a defense only first baseman being replaced by a player likely better offensively and as good defensively (or at least good). It’s valid baseball logic. Good luck to Ishikawa, and I appreciate the memories, but it is baseball.
And yes, we shouldn’t become shitty fans. We’re Giants fans. We’re better than that.
I feel prickishly demanding!
I couldn't be prouder of my recent adoptee - Tim Lincecum's dealer. He provides the secret fuel behind both Cy Youngs. Also, he taught Timmy the change-up.
by giantsfansince1981 on Mar 30, 2011 11:31 PM PDT reply actions
I couldn’t agree more with the person above me. Last year means nothing as of tomorrow afternoon. We don’t need Ishi.
Now when you say that we’ve taken over every stadium except LA’s… how many games did YOU attend at Dodger Stadium last year? There are always a lot of Giants fans there… and the bandwagon “fans” will definitely be taking over this weekend.
Negativity aside, I really enjoyed your comparison to Boston “fans.” WE won’t be like that, at least WE who post here, because we actually follow the team and always have. It’s the bandwagoners that will give us a bad name, and of course, NO ONE thinks they’re a bandwagon fan. Gotta say though, as much as I’m looking forward to watching the Showtime thing, I think it’s only going to contribute to greediness and a sense of entitlement among fans. :-/
Last year was last year
This year is this year.
The 2010 Giants took us on a wonderful, joyous, epic ride that will never be duplicated (you can only win your first San Francisco World Championship once).
The 2010 Giants don’t exist anymore. The team is not the same, nor would I want it to be. The Giants should field the best possible 2011 team that they can – this means that Brandon Belt should indeed be a member of the opening day roster for the Giants this year.
The only way Ishikawa was going to be making the team this year was if several players went down with injuries and I think even Travis knew that going in to Spring Training.
I don’t feel bad for Ish, I think he’ll find his way onto another team’s roster. The Giants gave him many chances over the years to show he could be an everyday player, he just doesn’t have the ability required for this. He is also lucky to have played on a World Series Championship team, something a lot of very good baseball players have never achieved (sorry Barry).
this is kind of the point I was trying to make. It’s one thing for Sabean and Bochy to not be sentimental and to be thinking about what’s best for the 2011 Giants. That’s their job.
I just think as fans we shouldn’t be so happy and eager to give guys a kick on the butt as they’re clearly walking out of the door and basically telling them, “What have you done for me lately?”
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
by Aaronstampler on Mar 30, 2011 11:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Well most fans that I know and interact with are sorry to see Ish go but at the same time think it is the best move for the team.
I never bought the “you should never boo your team’s players” attitude. I’ll boo any player who I think is dogging it or shows disrespect for the game, his team or its fans. I don’t care if the player was on the World Series team or not, if they deserve to be boo’ed I’m gonna do it.
That said, there is no one on the current Giants team that I would boo. Even as bad as Rowand is lately, he always seems to be giving 100%. The same is true of Zito.
One name
Jose Guillen.
I’ll boo any player who I think is dogging it or shows disrespect for the game, his team or its fans.
Still the father of two-time Cy Young Award winner Tim Lincecum.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
Baseball is NOTHING BUT “What you done for me lately?”
31 May 2007, 21:38 EST - the last time Matteh's career W-L wasn't below .500
"You never wake up the baby." - E. Renteria, 01 August 2010
Lowering the Quality of Internet Discourse Since 1985™
by S.F. Giangst on Mar 31, 2011 6:42 AM PDT up reply actions
The Front Office just motherfucking can't win can they
The Giants bring back the old gang :
THE SAN FRANCISCO GIANTS ARE MAKING THE MISTAKE OF OTHER WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS, STAYING LOYAL TO THE PLAYERS THAT GOT THEM THERE AND NOT IMPROVING THE ROSTER.
The Giants make improvement to the roster :
YOU KNOW THE GIANTS SHOULD HAVE STUCK WITH THE PLAYER THAT GOT THEM THERE WHY ARE YOU LETTING PLAYERS NOT AS GOOD AS BELT GO TO MAKE ROOM FOR BELT
Get. Over. It.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
Kudos, You are a sick, sick man, but you are very good at it -- wcw
by jctGamer on Mar 31, 2011 12:34 AM PDT reply actions 4 recs
I love what Travis did for the Giants, and I don't feel bad for him
Because he was a Giant, and he was a World Champion, and no one will ever take that away from him.
He had his time; now it’s Belt’s turn. It’s the best move for the team, and I’m sure Ishikawa understands that. It’s all part of what being a professional athlete is all about. You go on the field and you play their heart out until there’s nothing left, until someone else comes to take your place. That’s just the way it is.
This
Do you know what I would give/have given to appear in just one single solitary big-league game? For every Travis Ishikawa, there are a thousand guys who bounce around the minor leagues, independent leagues, overseas etc. and never get a cup of coffee. So, while I empathize with Ishi, I don’t feel sorry for him and, to his credit, I don’t think he feels sorry for himself.
I'm finally proud of the fact that I went to VCU and fittingly it has nothing to do with academics!
Proud adoptive parent of Brett Bochy, he's my boy now Bruce!
by Giant Torture on Mar 31, 2011 6:10 AM PDT up reply actions
This
From everything I’ve heard, Travis handled the news yesterday with tremendous class and thanked the Giants for all they did for him. I wish him the best of luck, and if he hasn’t caught on with another team in the next week, I certainly hope he’ll be invited to the Opening Day and ring ceremonies next weekend.
"I could hear the angry MCC cacophany in my head."--Oldjacket, 7/4/10
Fans were booing Rowand and Zito last year, so I don’t think that’s really a big deal. Certainly nowhere near in the same ballpark as Red Sox fans booing Keith Foulke.
Besides, that whole 2005 season was weird. The confetti hadn’t even settled on the ground before the Red Sox pushed Pedro out the door.
Didn't Boston win it all again in 2006?
If cutting Ishi brings us a title in 2012, I’m happy to say goodbye.
I lived in Boston during those years, and the fans I knew were as conflicted about the moves as you are. They booed because thats what east coast fans do. It wasn’t because they got spoiled. They booed before the ring, and they’ll be booing long after.
by AllHailMightyBruins on Mar 31, 2011 7:23 AM PDT reply actions
I knew that sounded wrong.
A 2013 title doesn’t sound bad, either.
by AllHailMightyBruins on Mar 31, 2011 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions
Interesting post
I don’t agree with all your takes, but I certainly understand where you’re coming from.
On one hand, I’m so excited for today, for the World Champion San Francisco Giants to take the field and begin defense of their title. On the other, I feel a bit of melancholy that the 2010 season really ends today at 5:05, and it’s never coming back. Uribe and Renteria aren’t even on the team anymore. We’ll remember everyone’s contributions from last season, of course, and you’re right to give credit to Zito and Rowand and Ishi for their small (and maybe not so small) part in helping the Giants make it to the World Series. We can think about the 2010 team forever, and we will, but it’s not the job of the front office or the players to wallow in nostalgia. It’s their job to turn the page, and I hope they do.
"I could hear the angry MCC cacophany in my head."--Oldjacket, 7/4/10
This
Sure it would be really cool to bring back every player who played last year and have them introduced and then do a slow lap around Mays Field, but we’re just going to have to wait a few years for that.
Belt is an improvement over Ishi and while it sucks to watch him go, it always sucks watching players you like leave (especially when they help bring a World Championship to San Francisco).
With all that said, I’d actually agree that it would have been nice for the Giants to delay Belt’s promotion until after the ring ceremony so Ishi could have participated in it, but I think Ross’ injury made it necessary to have Belt’s bat in the lineup. You can still be sentimental as a fan and feel that the roster decisions are the right ones for the team.
Cliff Lee's career postseason statistics:
GS W-L ERA WHIP
vs. Giants 2 0-2 6.94 1.29
vs. others 8 7-0 1.26 0.73
So about that Brandon Belt. You were saying?
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
Kudos, You are a sick, sick man, but you are very good at it -- wcw
3 Games In
and the argument just kind of evaporates, no? I loved Ish too, but it appears the front office made a wise choice in bringing Belt up. I’ll be applauding for Ish as hard as anyone else at Saturday’s ceremony.
There might end up being parallels
In terms of bandwagon Giants fans and expectations, but frankly Sox fans were always annoying or “greedy, whiny, arrogant pigs” as you say. Maybe just less arrogant before they won the title. That sounds really critical, but seriously, they are very passionate, very knowledgable but completely insufferable. It was just easier to be sympathetic to them before they won the title.
I don’t think Giant fans will do that. There will absolutely be bandwagon fans and there will be higher expectations, but I don’t think we were as annoying to begin with.
Yeah, nicely written for the most part
but you lost me when you started talking about people who value sabermetrics somehow losing the sentimental side of the game. That’s kind of tired bullshit at this point, and simply not true.
Also, they need to put the best team out there, not the one that “feels the best”. Belt obviously hasn’t gotten off to a great start, but I’d say him or Ishi would have been a wash at the very worst to this point.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, WORLD CHAMPION SAN FRANCISCO GIANT
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
11/1/10

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