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Around SBN: Ryder Hesjedal Wins Giro d'Italia

Community Prospect List #29 Runoff Madness

Wow, so a 4 way runoff.  Sorry this wasn't up yesterday, but handegg.  It's probably a good idea to get these moving faster, so from now on each poll will end after a day instead of potentially two.

Darren Ford

Juan Perez

Reinier Roibal

Clayton Tanner

Each player should have a link to Baseball Cube in their first name and a link to FanGraphs in their last name, unless one wasn't available.  The poll will close Tuesday at noon, unless it's clear enough to call before then.

Poll
Runoff.
Darren Ford
21 votes
Juan Perez
31 votes
Reinier Roibal
36 votes
Clayton Tanner
32 votes

120 votes | Poll has closed

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

Comment 30 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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I think I'll go JCP here

But I can be swayed

"You think someone that big would be more well endowed" Aubrey Huff's mother on Pat Burrell
I thought he was going to punch me and I was totally accepting of it. I was planning a reason to thank him if he did." Brian Wilson on Buster Posey
Twiitter: @gobroks
Blog: GMPotential.blogspot

by Gobroks on Feb 7, 2011 10:00 AM PST via mobile reply actions  

I’m going with the shiny new power arm, since the other three collectively have a near-zero chance to be real contributors.

by Evan on Feb 7, 2011 10:42 AM PST up reply actions  

The reports in Baggs chat scared me

Though maybe since we’re this low on the list he may be worth a vote with hope that he can rediscover the stuff that got him 6 figures

"You think someone that big would be more well endowed" Aubrey Huff's mother on Pat Burrell
I thought he was going to punch me and I was totally accepting of it. I was planning a reason to thank him if he did." Brian Wilson on Buster Posey
Twiitter: @gobroks
Blog: GMPotential.blogspot

by Gobroks on Feb 7, 2011 10:51 AM PST via mobile up reply actions  

I don’t think the short, incomplete comment by Baggs from an online chat comes anywhere close to telling us the whole story. It just doesn’t make logical sense when you look at the timeline. Let’s look back at how we signed Roibal.

1. He defected to Mexico at the end of 2009, several weeks before his better-known countrymen Aroldis Chapman and Adeinis Hechavarria. He quickly signed with a well-known agent (the same one that Hechavarria signed with).

2. By the beginning of 2010, Roibal and Hechavarria were made available for public and private exhibitionsover a period of several weeks for major league scouts and execs in Mexico and the Dominican Republic. We know that, at a minimum, Giant reps were on hand on several occasions to watch Roibal work out in the DR.

3. The Giants signed Roibal to a contract with a signing bonus of between $450K and $1M in the middle of April of 2010 and assigned him to the extended spring training camp in Scottsdale. Roibal remained in extended ST until the beginning of July, when he joined the Scottsdale team in the AZ Rookie Leaue. He made his pro debut on July 17th (about 4 weeks into the season) and then continued to pitch 1 inning stints out of the pen for the rest of the season. Even though he was pitching out of the pen, the Giants were obviously grooming him to be a starter by having him pitch only every 5th or 6th day. He ended up getting into 9 games, pitching 8.2 innings, and had above-average stats.

So, the Giants had plenty of opportunity to see Roibal in action pitching off a mound in the bullpen and against live hitters on multiple occasions during the winter of 2010. The fact that he got at least $450K in a signing bonus tells me that all of the top execs. scouts, and talent evaluators got involved in the decision. I also have to assume that Dick Tidrow had to have seen his workouts at least on video and signed off on the decision. In other words, the signing didn’t take place in a vacuum, and the Giants had plenty of opportunities to see Roibal’s “stuff” before he was signed. They had to be more than a little impressed with his “stuff” to have thrown that much money at him. Barring an injury or having his mechanics messed up in extended ST camp by the Giant coaches, I don’t think that it’s very likelly that Roibal all of a sudden lost his “stuff” in the short span of 2 months. It’s not like he was a 16 or 17 year old high school pitcher who developed issues during the 6 month layoff between the end of the summer league season and the beginning of the next high school season.

The fact that the Giants held him out so long before getting him into action in the AZL tells me that he probably had mechanical issues that the Giants were working on, but an injury could also explain the delay and the fact that they had him on such a short pitch limit. When you look at the candidates that the Giants have to choose from as starters in Salem and Augusta this season (and at some of the bums hat they used as starters in Salem and Scottsdale in 2010), Roibal’s stuff would have to be very mediocre for the Giants not to at least give him the opportunity to prove himself as a starter somewhere in 2011. Unless he is fighting an injury or completely horrible mechanics, I just don’t believe that the Giants are going to eat that signing bonus so quickly.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

by Fla-Giant on Feb 8, 2011 9:34 AM PST up reply actions  

P.S.: I voted Roibal here

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

by Fla-Giant on Feb 8, 2011 9:34 AM PST up reply actions  

Those are all good points, Fla, and some very nice investigative reporting, but it’s worth remembering that in the end you’re constructing a structure of circumstance that will allow us to try to infer what’s in the minds of the Giants brass. And given that it’s worth going back to Baggerly’s exact comment:

He wasn’t a top 30 guy based on the people I talked to.

and understand that at least some of the people he talked to were the Giants player development people, Bobby Evans, Fred Stanley and Bert Bradley at the very least and likely some others as well. And Occam warns us against trying to imagine details we aren’t privy to in opposition to a source that is.

MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!

by Roger on Feb 8, 2011 9:51 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Here’s the entire Baggs’ quote that you posted that I was commenting on:

He wasn’t a top 30 guy based on the people I talked to. The stuff didn’t match the reports. Probably a reliever for now unless he has a huge camp.

I don’t have any issue with the part about him not being a top 30 prospect. I’m sure that Baggs was accurately describing the views of many in the minor league system on that point. The part that I was pointing to about not making sense was the last 2 sentences.

1. While I do believe that not every evaluator/scout/exec in the system got to see Roibal in person or on video, I refuse to believe that all that the main decision makers had were 3rd party scouting reports on Roibal’s stuff before they signed him. I know for a fact that Tidrow himself went to Nebraska to watch Mike Kickham pitch in an amateur summer league last June before the Giants agreed to offer Kickham a signing bonus that was probably less than what Roibal got. Why would they do less due-deligence on Roibal?

2. I also don’t believe that a pitcher of Roibal’s age and physical maturity just loses his “stuff” for no apparent reason in the span of 2 months in-season without a mechanical or physical malady issue not being the main cause. We saw MadBum suffer through an alarming loss of “stuff” from the middle of the 2009 season to the first part of the 2010 season, but that was corrected with a mechanical adjustment in his delivery.

3. Finally, as even Baggs admits in the quote, I don’t believe that the Giants have given up on the idea of Roibal being a starter. As I mentioned in my OP, if they only see him as a bullpen guy, then why did they have him pitching on a starter’s schedule for Scottsdale in July and August?

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

by Fla-Giant on Feb 8, 2011 11:09 AM PST up reply actions  

As for the last point, I guess you’d have to look at their handling of all the guys in the bullpen to see if that was abnormal.

MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!

by Roger on Feb 8, 2011 11:13 AM PST up reply actions  

That's just it

Before I posted that comment about Roibal I looked at the pitching schedules of other non-starting pitchers in Scottsdale and S-K last season. All of those that had at least 9 appearances per month averaged between 2 and 3 days rest between appearances – the guys that the Giants obviously see as backend bullpen guys (Hembree, Dunnington, Harrold, Shackleford, Rodriguez, Santiago, …) averaged the fewest days.

The only 2 exceptions were Roibal and Jake Dunning – who pitched on similar schedules – so that tells me something about the Giants thinking on both of them. Even Matt Graham, who I have to believe that the Giants still view as a potential starter someday, averaged under 3 days between appearances once he was pitching regularly in Scottsdale.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

by Fla-Giant on Feb 8, 2011 1:31 PM PST up reply actions  

Those are all good points, Fla, and some very nice investigative reporting, but it’s worth remembering that in the end you’re constructing a structure of circumstance that will allow us to try to infer what’s in the minds of the Giants brass. And given that it’s worth going back to Baggerly’s exact comment:

He wasn’t a top 30 guy based on the people I talked to.

and understand that at least some of the people he talked to were the Giants player development people, Bobby Evans, Fred Stanley and Bert Bradley at the very least and likely some others as well. And Occam warns us against trying to imagine details we aren’t privy to in opposition to a source that is.

MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!

by Roger on Feb 8, 2011 9:51 AM PST up reply actions  

weird double post is weird.

MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!

by Roger on Feb 8, 2011 9:52 AM PST up reply actions  

Went with Tanner

if for no other reason than he was considered top 20 at this time last year, and is thought highly enough of to be added to the 40 man roster. Might even find his way up to the majors this year for a spot start or two.

Chris Gloor: my lefty is bigger than your lefty

by crazedcrustacean on Feb 7, 2011 10:42 AM PST reply actions  

Pretty much this

The ERA is sexy, even though the peripherals are terrifying. I’m hoping this will mean a midseason deal for a bat we need (if we need a bat).

Ain't no Posey like a Buster Posey cause a Buster Posey don't stop...hitting.

Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)

by quincy0191 on Feb 7, 2011 1:04 PM PST up reply actions  

The next Matt Palmer?

Please don't cut Ishikawa! 2009 Tops All-Star Rookie and World Champ 2010!

by kennv on Feb 7, 2011 8:54 PM PST up reply actions  

I’m trying to imagine the bat that Clayton Tanner might fetch and how we could possibly be in a position to need such a person. We already have Eli Whiteside.

MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!

by Roger on Feb 8, 2011 5:24 AM PST up reply actions  

The idea was that some team will see the ERA and think Tanner is better than he is by K/BB, and we can pick up a replacement for an injured or ineffective starting player. Possibly a rotation arm if someone gets hurt.

Ain't no Posey like a Buster Posey cause a Buster Posey don't stop...hitting.

Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)

by quincy0191 on Feb 8, 2011 5:30 PM PST up reply actions  

Perez

He’s older, but inexperienced (only 2 pro seasons), had a very good year, lost development time with a knee injury but looks fully recovered and plays good defense in a defensively valuable position.

Hector Sanchez: Underrated. Fighting body bias since the 2009 off season. I still love you, son, even if you're fat.

by tedfordfan on Feb 7, 2011 11:20 AM PST reply actions  

Doesn’t Perez have pro experience in independent leagues? What did he do between high school and joining the Giants’ organization?

Please don't cut Ishikawa! 2009 Tops All-Star Rookie and World Champ 2010!

by kennv on Feb 7, 2011 8:55 PM PST up reply actions  

JuCo

"You think someone that big would be more well endowed" Aubrey Huff's mother on Pat Burrell
I thought he was going to punch me and I was totally accepting of it. I was planning a reason to thank him if he did." Brian Wilson on Buster Posey
Twiitter: @gobroks
Blog: GMPotential.blogspot

by Gobroks on Feb 7, 2011 9:32 PM PST up reply actions  

There was a period before JuCo where he was working for his Dad (plumber?) and playing in one of those New York city leagues that are full of old pros like at you see at the end of Sugar.

MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!

by Roger on Feb 8, 2011 5:23 AM PST up reply actions  

How old is Almonte now?

I feel prickishly demanding!

I couldn't be prouder of my recent adoptee - Tim Lincecum's dealer. He provides the secret fuel behind both Cy Youngs. Also, he taught Timmy the change-up.

by giantsfansince1981 on Feb 8, 2011 10:34 AM PST up reply actions  

Apparently 24 in April

Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, future CF for the World Champion San Francisco Giants.

by marcello on Feb 8, 2011 11:05 AM PST up reply actions  

So he’ll be pitching for the NY team in the Little League World Series this summer?

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

by Fla-Giant on Feb 8, 2011 11:10 AM PST up reply actions  

No. Next year.

He’ll be playing with his grandson.

Still the father of two-time Cy Young Award winner Tim Lincecum.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden

by SFGuy on Feb 9, 2011 2:27 AM PST up reply actions  

thanks for reminder. Am about to get on Netflix bandwagon

former adoptive papa of "Geno" Eugenio Velez, Antoan Richardson, and Adam Wittler--

by foothillsfan on Feb 8, 2011 10:46 AM PST up reply actions  

Looks like it, huh?

More likely a three way tie for No. 29 and we start at No. 31 tomorrow. Good way to save some time too.

Ain't no Posey like a Buster Posey cause a Buster Posey don't stop...hitting.

Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)

by quincy0191 on Feb 7, 2011 5:58 PM PST up reply actions  

I really hope the next person votes for Tanner

Hensley "Bam Bam" Meulens!
Better than you! Mejor que tú! Beter dan jij! 良い場合も! Mehor than abo!
"The trouble with baseball is that it is not played the year round." - Gaylord Perry

by GrahamCrakalaka on Feb 7, 2011 9:11 PM PST reply actions  

If forced to choose among these four, I’ll with Darren Ford, who absolutely without question has one major-league skill already. I have moderate hope for his future, particularly if Andres Torres spends a little time with him in the batting cage this Spring.

I don’t like Tanner or Roibal. JCPerez is interesting; I’d probably rank him somewhere between 26-30, much like Ford.

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
—Rogers Hornsby

by Lyle on Feb 8, 2011 6:33 AM PST reply actions  

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