Community Prospect List #37 Runoff
by marcello on Feb 17, 2011 12:09 PM PST
Email
PrintSo, it's a runoff. Wheeee. Fun times, fun times indeed. We need a better system to handle runoffs in the future, don't know if one exists though.
Each player should have a link to Baseball Cube in their first name and a link to FanGraphs in their last name, unless one wasn't available. The poll will close Friday at noon.
Most recent favorite lyric: Too many Urkels on your team that's why your Winslow.
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
40 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
C-LOS!
Quietly hoping Brandon Belt develops into John Olerud, circa 1993.
by AndOnTheDrums... on Feb 17, 2011 3:39 PM PST reply actions
Willoughby, although I am looking forward to watching Dunnington’s progress this year.
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
—Rogers Hornsby
I mean look at how many pitchers are in the org already! And how few real vroooom fast guys
former adoptive papa of "Geno" Eugenio Velez, Antoan Richardson, and Adam Wittler--
by foothillsfan on Feb 17, 2011 4:41 PM PST up reply actions
TIE
just call it a tie and move on, I say.
San Francisco Giants: 2010 World Series Champions
Buster Posey: 100% ballplayer, 0% bullshit
Noonan news
In Baggs’ rundown today he stated that Noonan is going back to shortstop for next season. I hope this means him and Charlie Culberson will be turning Double plays in Richmond. If that is the case, I would assume the SS would be: Jurica in Augusta, Adrianza in SJ, Noonan in AA and Crawford in Fresno. Pretty interesting, but I wonder what happens to Villegas in the setup?
This makes sense
Maybe they finally gave up on Noonan’s bat and figure they need to move him to SS if he’s going to have a future. I like it; he wasn’t ready for AAA, and it’s not like they would have bumped Burriss off second anyway, and Adrianza ought to spend another year in SJ.
Ain't no Posey like a Buster Posey cause a Buster Posey don't stop...hitting.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)
Of course the problem there is giving up on Noonan’s bat is kinda giving up on Noonan, since his bat was the only thing that looked like it could get him to the major leagues to begin with.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
And why punish Noonan with 2 years in the Eastern League?
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
—Rogers Hornsby
Well, they could send him back to the Cal league, which is about what his EL performance deserves.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
That’s not a bad idea — Noonan as the shortstop in San Jose. None of the Augusta shortstops look ready to move up anyway.
That puts Ehire in Augusta (probably too low) or Richmond (definitely too high). If he’s going to SJ, he better be playing second.
Ain't no Posey like a Buster Posey cause a Buster Posey don't stop...hitting.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)
I still think Noonan should spend a couple of years in AAA, starting this year.
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
—Rogers Hornsby
But why would you promote him? In the last two years he’s gone from being the poor side of mediocre in A+ to somewhere on the awful-to-overmatched spectrum in AA. A .584 OPS and 74/22 k/bb aren’t things you can write off to a pitcher friendly league and/or stadium. He was not just merely bad, but truly most sincerely bad. By what justification would you promote him?
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
Justification is a strong word. I think in this case it jams up the system to do anything else with him. It looks like Culberson and Adrianza are the DP combo in Richmond this year, so I don’t see a place for Nick there. Going down to San Jose doesn’t strike me as the better choice, so I’d bump him up to Fresno, even though he didn’t “earn it.” But I’d do so fully expecting that he’d need a couple of years in AAA before ever being ready for the majors.
That being said, I’d understand if the brass makes the decision to let me play everyday at San Jose – that’s a much better option than having him as a bench player in Richmond.
In short, I just can’t read too much into hitting stats from the EL. I wouldn’t wash out anybody based on their EL hitting stats.
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
—Rogers Hornsby
If you don’t wash people out because of their EL stats, you can’t promote people because of their Cal or PCL stats. Those leagues aren’t neutral run environments either. And then you have nothing. Context is certainly appropriate, but a .584 OPS is awful no matter where you are.
You’re also saying a lot of things and not giving reasons for them; why do you assume Adrianza’s going to Richmond? If the report that Noonan’s moving to short is accurate, Ehire could well be staying in SJ. And why is demoting Noonan not a better option than giving him another year in the EL? Maybe he goes down, gets his confidence back, figures something out, or any number of things. He’s clearly not cutting it in the EL, and there’s no reason to think Fresno is going to make things any easier for him. Give him a shot in SJ and see if he can get back on track against lesser competition. Keeping him in Richmond or sending him down both seem like much more sensible options than promoting him; he’s done nothing to earn it, and I can’t imagine why it would help his development.
And justification isn’t a strong word, it just means reason. “I think in this case it jams up the system to do anything else with him” is a justification.
Ain't no Posey like a Buster Posey cause a Buster Posey don't stop...hitting.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)
1. I don’t see a reason to keep Adrianza in San Jose, therefore I think he should go to Richmond.
2. I don’t think Noonan going to back to Richmond and getting his confidence back is at all likely, largely because it’s the EL. I think going to Fresno and getting his confidence back (even if it’s a slightly inflated confidence) is MUCH more likely – despite the higher classification. So I disagree with you on what Fresno can do for Noonan.
3. I don’t see “justification” and “reason” as having the same connotation. When I see “justification” I see a negative connotation, implying something less than above-board; something more like “an excuse to do what you wanted to do anyway” or “a carefully worded lawyer-approved statement that implies a reason, but at its heart doesn’t have one.” I enjoy talking baseball with Roger, and I wanted to try to find out if he meant the word in the same way that I view the word, and to get his response to that.
4. I think ‘jamming up the system" can be a problem. It isn’t like school, where being promoted to 3rd grade when you haven’t mastered 2nd grade can become a real problem. Skipping a level, in either direction, can work sometimes. So I would take into consideration the overall progress of the whole group of minor leaguers. For example, I’d guess from what you’ve said that you think Roger Kieschnick should stay in Richmond this year. I believe Kieschnick staying in AA might negatively impact Francisco Peguero, Jarrett Parker, and Chuckie Jones (and possibly other outfielders). I would send him to Fresno as well, and much for the same reasons as Nick Noonan.
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
—Rogers Hornsby
Is a .682 OPS reason enough to keep Adrianza in SJ? I think so. If he hit that badly in a hitter-friendly league, the EL will destroy him. He’s young, he’s got time, let him repeat SJ and really show that he’s ready for the next level. He hasn’t done that yet.
I was suggesting a demotion for Noonan to San Jose, and asking why you think that wouldn’t work for him. He’s not done anything that deserves a promotion, but staying in the EL doesn’t seem like it would help much either. Send him back to SJ to get his confidence back, not Fresno. Fresno isn’t going to help; the PCL is easier to hit in, but the pitching is better. It is probably a better place to hit than Richmond, but San Jose is better than either and is more appropriate given his performance last year.
I suppose the justification thing is just a matter of personal views, but I don’t see it as a negative, it’s pretty neutral in my eyes.
As far as jamming up the system, I wasn’t contradicting that, just saying that that’s a reason for what you think. It’s perfectly fine. We do have a glut of outfielders, and while I’d like to keep Kieschnick in Richmond, I think he will and should get promoted due to the needs of other (better) prospects. Peguero and JCP should be playing CF/RF in Richmond, and Brown and Parker should be in SJ. Jones should be in Augusta or extended ST and S-K. Keeping Kieschnick in Richmond means either Peguero or JCP have to go to Fresno, which is too big a jump, or one has to stay in San Jose, which either puts Parker in left (and doesn’t take advantage of his defensive ability) or leaves him at a lower level (which, as a college bat, he’s probably too advanced for). Kieschnick ends up in Fresno as a result of other players’ needs, as you pointed out. But Noonan playing second in SJ doesn’t really block anyone, except possibly Ryan Cavan. Maybe Cavan can take 2/3 of the starts at second, Adrianza 2/3 of the starts at SS, and Noonan gets a third of each. Still, Cavan and Noonan are lower level prospects than the outfielders Kieschnick would displace, so I have less of a problem messing with them.
Ain't no Posey like a Buster Posey cause a Buster Posey don't stop...hitting.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)
I’d say we agree on most of this, with only Noonan being the exception (in fact, I believe we often agree on these prospect threads, iirc). In an ideal world, Noonan would stay in AA and improve his game, but we agree that that isn’t a good choice here for him. You’d send him to San Jose, and I’d send him to Fresno. I could see either choice, I just lean towards Fresno.
I’m yet to be impressed with Adrianza, but everybody else seems to think he’s the Next Big Thing, so I was assuming he’d be promoted to Richmond with Culberson. Again, in a better situation, I’d leave Adrianza in HighA and Noonan in AA, hoping that each would improve, but I really wouldn’t want to do that to Noonan.
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
—Rogers Hornsby
Ah, I was a little late getting to this, but to me “justification” doesn’t need to have a pejorative connotation. I just meant it as a synonym for “rationale” or “logic.”
However, I think or major disagreement with regards to Noonan is twofold:
1) I don’t think confidence is his biggest issue; I just don’t think his tools have played well in his pro career. Probably some mechanical adjustments need to be made (following Keith Law’s longtime suggestion that he arm bars too much), or perhaps he just doesn’t have the bat speed people thought he had that will allow him play the pro game. Or maybe it’s vision or something in the line. But either way, I don’t think just getting somewhere where his confidence can be artificially inflated is going to solve the problems in his game.
2) i really dislike the entrenched “blame the EL” attitude that we see here whenever our players struggle in AA. It’s a pitcher friendly league, ok. It’s not the only one that exists in the minors. I don’t even think it’s the worst. And many of the really bad ones are lower down the development scale where, one would think the young prospects self-confidence is more fragile (MWL, FSL, GCL). And good prospects go through these leagues every year without having their careers crushed. I guess my attitude to the league adjustments is: Deal with it. See ball, hit ball hard. And in the end you’ll be a better player for it because the major leagues is a crash course in changing environments from one stadium to the next and you need to be able to compete well in all of them. As they saying goes: if you’re not humbled in this game you’re about to be, so lessons in humility are an important part of the development process, too, and I think Nick needs to figure out how to climb out of his own hole without the PCL coming to his rescue. (and I have to say, finally, that I have my doubts it would — his level of performance suggests to me that he might well be absolutely crushed, Ydwin Villegas style, if he were sent to AAA to face pitchers who’ve been in the major leagues on a daily basis).
As for Ehire, I think he’s got to be thought of as on a long leash as far as his bat goes, and from that perspective I’m sure he’s going to need to repeat a level at some point. I’d rather it be the EL next year, but if it’s the Cal League this year I suppose there’s no great harm in that either.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
Don't like this
Not that I don’t think it’s the right move for Noonan, but I would have liked to see Adrianza make the leap to AA this year. He had a pretty good year last year in San Jose, so I don’t know what’s left for him to prove there. However, the organization could be keeping Crawford in Richmond since he missed a big chunk of the year with the injury, and giving Noonan playing time in Fresno.
In case you're wondering, I'm working out and plan to be in the best shape of my life come spring.
by Giant Torture on Feb 18, 2011 4:38 AM PST up reply actions
Noonan
They may have decided that his best way to the majors is by being a utility player and he has played almost exclusively at second base as a pro.
This interpretation makes the most sense to me. I don’t think they’re going to keep Ehire at San Jose.
With Tejada, Sanchez, and Derosa all ending their service terms this year, and Fontenot on a perpetual edge of non-tender, I’d say it will behoove them to find out as much as possible about the whole Burriss/Rohlinger/Crawford/Noonan/Gillaspie/Culberson/Adrianza gang this year. It wouldn’t be the worst idea to move Gillaspie around the infield as well.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
Burriss and Rohlinger are known quantities already, aren’t they? Rohlinger should be a big-league backup, and Burriss should be doing whatever needs doing at Fresno. I think you figure out where you want Adrianza and Culberson to play and work around them.
I’m kind of surprised they haven’t shifted Gillaspie to second already.
I would agree with all that, but it doesn’t seem like the organization has made up their minds that Rohlinger can fill out a roster spot. To me he should be the 25th guy on the team this year, but I get the feeling they’re not sold.
I think the problem with moving to Gillaspie to 2B has been the position’s glut. If Burriss is the Fresno 2B and Culberson the Richmond 2B where exactly do you put Gillaspie? Which no doubt means that he’ll be manning 3B in Fresno this year. But maybe they’ll do a lot more mix and matching in the Fresno IF, moving Burriss, Crawford, and Gillaspie around to get them all work in multiple spots.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
Why is it that the Giants have no regard for their own secondbasemen? It’s not exactly like eating your young, but it comes distressingly close.
It reminds me of Groucho Marx’s famous saying “I refuse to be a member of any organization that would have me as a member.”
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
—Rogers Hornsby
I don’t know. They seem to have too much regard for Burriss. And certainly Frandsen didn’t do anything in Anaheim to make their decisions look bad and at 29 is probably running out of chances to do so. It remains to be seen what the case will be with Matt Downs.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
I stopped voting
probably 15 polls ago, but I still enjoy checking in and squinting at the names and muttering “Who with the wha now?”
O no, I broke the tie. What have I done??
There's a First for Everything:
Edgar Renteria, The First World Series MVP in Giants History.
Don’t worry, I’m sure capn will come by and tie it back up shortly.
"The knowledge of the game is inversely proportional to the price of the seat." ---Bill Veeck. •Check out the new look of SFDugout.com•
by BruteSentiment on Feb 18, 2011 12:47 AM PST up reply actions
Pitchers
and youth.
Hector Sanchez: Underrated. Fighting body bias since the 2009 off season. I still love you, son, even if you're fat.
elections are better than, say, Stalinism or Mubarakism
former adoptive papa of "Geno" Eugenio Velez, Antoan Richardson, and Adam Wittler--
"I ain't no Stalin"
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
—Rogers Hornsby
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- Eric Hosmer redefines the Baltimore chop with infield double (Video)
- College player makes impossible over the fence catch to save tournament game (Video)
- Security!: Camden Yards guard collides with Royals’ Mike Moustakas
- The Juice: Nelson Cruz matches career high eight RBIs, Pujols stays hot in Seattle
- Benches clear at Fenway as Red Sox-Rays rivalry heats up
