On the Possibility of a Madison Bumgarner Extension ...
by Grant Brisbee on Dec 28, 2011 12:39 PM PST
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PrintOver at MLB Trade Rumors, Tim Dierkes has an article exploring a possible contract extension for Madison Bumgarner. The tweet linking to the article was quickly followed with one from Hank Schulman:
Brass has said they don't like extensions for 1+ guys
Translation: The Giants don't like to give out long-term deals for players who are already tethered to the Giants for the next five years. And while there was some good ol' hand-wringing about Matt Cain, Pending Free Agent yesterday, the Giants will have Madison Bumgarner through 2016. They'll have him for Manny Burriss prices for 2012. If he performs as expected, he'll likely become a Super Two, which is a normal two that gets power from a differently colored sun. He'll start to get expensive, but the Giants will still hold his rights for the next five years.
At the risk of being one of those dinks who quotes himself, check out this awesome quote from me that I wrote before the 2010 season about Tim Lincecum:
When it comes to a pitcher – any pitcher, even if he’s the best in the game – I’d rather have him on a 4/$90M contract than a 6/$110M contract. If Lincecum and his agent successfully navigate the young pitcher gauntlet all the way to free agency, more power to them. They made it past the final round without any lifelines left, even when the last two questions were about opera and taxonomy.
This comes up now for a couple of reasons:
1. I still think this applies, and I'd use the same strategy for Bumgarner. Don't extend him until you have to because pitchers are risky investments
2. As Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain approach free agency, my preferred strategy sure looks stupid
Young pitchers are risky, water is wet, and mayonnaise is scummy egg paste. You know all this. But the Giants have nurtured three first-round pitchers to the majors over the past few years. Two of them have already had extended success while staying healthy. Maybe that's the equivalent of them rolling a pair of sixes twice. Or maybe it's because the Giants are particularly good at developing pitchers and keeping them healthy.
If that's the case, they should absolutely lock up Madison Bumgarner for years and years and years. Problem is, I doubt even the Giants are sure of exactly how much of Cain and Lincecum's success and (relative) longevity is nature and how much is nurture. The eternal debate, it is. As such, I'd rather play it safe with Bumgarner. You might think that playing it safe is locking him up at a cost that's potentially below market. I say safe is keeping any pitcher on a long-term, non-guaranteed contract in the event that he turns into Ryan Vogelsong (reserving the right to reacquire him next decade if he double-turns into Ryan Vogelsong.)
The most important point in all this: The Giants have Madison Bumgarner for the next five years. Neener neener neener. To emphasize this excitement, allow me to cherry-pick some numbers without adjusting for era, and look at all of the pitchers in major-league history with a K/BB ratio over 3.00 before they turned 22.
| Rk | Player | |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | Madison Bumgarner | 3.83 |
| 2 | Dwight Gooden | 3.35 |
| 3 | Bert Blyleven | 3.35 |
| 4 | Bret Saberhagen | 3.12 |
| 5 | Felix Hernandez | 3.07 |
| 6 | Vida Blue | 3.05 |
oh man so pretty that is so awesome oh man
Worth noting: A six-year deal after their age-21 seasons would have worked out for Blyleven and Felix, and it would have been a decidedly mixed bag for Gooden, Saberhagen, and Blue. It wouldn't have been an abject disaster in any of those cases.
So as the years progress, and Madison Bumgarner remains awesome, I'm not going to regret the Giants not locking him up. I'll just use the awesome for all sorts of things -- cologne, sandwich topping, voicemail greeting. It'll be versatile stuff, this awesome. But I still think the Giants would be right to err on the side of caution, even though they're getting close to getting burned by that strategy.
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Bold Prediction: Pablo Sandoval finishes 1st or 2nd in 2012 NL MVP voting. I'm Twittering now (well maybe not literally now): @GoofusMcP
Speaking of extensions
A sizable gap still exists between the Giants and arbitration eligible right-hander Tim Lincecum as the sides explore a possible extension, Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com reports. Negotiations have taken place this winter, but the sides appear to remain a couple of years and tens of millions of dollars apart.
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
They have over a year to get a deal done, and the arbitration deadlines will either push them to an agreement, or merely defer it to next offseason. Nothing worth getting worked up over just yet.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
it’s contract negotiations- it’s never supposed to happen on the first or second try. At least their talking and it doesn’t sound like it’s that big of a gap just yet.
by Dingoes Ate My Baby on Dec 28, 2011 1:12 PM PST up reply actions
Well said.
I remain skeptical that Lincecum’s camp honestly believes that they can get an 8-year deal. They’ll probably just sit around that number until the Giants slide enough on their end to get a deal they are happy with, or a 1-2 deal at a more generous AAV before reconsidering a 4-year deal further down the road.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
A 4 year deal? Really?
Good luck with that.
Brian Sabean: "We’re hoping like hell that Burriss can turn into the player we all forecasted him to be" / When it’s time for a change, think Barry Zito's fastball is a changeup. / ESPN: "The Mets swapped Carlos Beltran for Class A right-hander Zack Wheeler in July. Three months later, Baseball America has anointed Wheeler the Mets' top prospect." / Brian Sabean: "We didn't know specifically that we couldn't bring Carlos(Beltran) back" / The next time Freddy Sanchez gets hurt, it'll be time to Panik. / Brian Sabean: People really don't know the baseball card or the all around talent lets say, of a (Melky)Cabrera or (Angel)Pagan. And quite frankly, we're gonna have to hit on a (Aubrey)Huff coming back and being the player he was in 2010"
by Grant_ME_MERCY on Dec 28, 2011 1:18 PM PST up reply actions
My wild speculation is that the “8 year contract” was really a negotiating thing and there base point. Now it’s all a matter of haggling. I mean, how many players do get an 8 year contract, especially a pitcher?
by Dingoes Ate My Baby on Dec 28, 2011 1:21 PM PST up reply actions
He wont get 8 years because he’ll break records in arbitration for two seasons before going to free agency for a 6 year deal or something.
Brian Sabean: "We’re hoping like hell that Burriss can turn into the player we all forecasted him to be" / When it’s time for a change, think Barry Zito's fastball is a changeup. / ESPN: "The Mets swapped Carlos Beltran for Class A right-hander Zack Wheeler in July. Three months later, Baseball America has anointed Wheeler the Mets' top prospect." / Brian Sabean: "We didn't know specifically that we couldn't bring Carlos(Beltran) back" / The next time Freddy Sanchez gets hurt, it'll be time to Panik. / Brian Sabean: People really don't know the baseball card or the all around talent lets say, of a (Melky)Cabrera or (Angel)Pagan. And quite frankly, we're gonna have to hit on a (Aubrey)Huff coming back and being the player he was in 2010"
by Grant_ME_MERCY on Dec 28, 2011 1:24 PM PST up reply actions
C.J. Wilson signed a 5 year deal, and he’s 31.
Lincecum will be 29 when he becomes a free agent.
Brian Sabean: "We’re hoping like hell that Burriss can turn into the player we all forecasted him to be" / When it’s time for a change, think Barry Zito's fastball is a changeup. / ESPN: "The Mets swapped Carlos Beltran for Class A right-hander Zack Wheeler in July. Three months later, Baseball America has anointed Wheeler the Mets' top prospect." / Brian Sabean: "We didn't know specifically that we couldn't bring Carlos(Beltran) back" / The next time Freddy Sanchez gets hurt, it'll be time to Panik. / Brian Sabean: People really don't know the baseball card or the all around talent lets say, of a (Melky)Cabrera or (Angel)Pagan. And quite frankly, we're gonna have to hit on a (Aubrey)Huff coming back and being the player he was in 2010"
by Grant_ME_MERCY on Dec 28, 2011 1:22 PM PST up reply actions
but five years for anyone seems rational, 8 years and your entering crazy-ARod/Zito land. Sure, there might be some idiot owner out there who’d do it but I don’t think most owners would
by Dingoes Ate My Baby on Dec 28, 2011 1:25 PM PST up reply actions
arte moreno
is one of those idiots and whomever gets fielder will be another.
Ride the tiger...You can see his stripes but you know he's clean.
by James Westfall on Dec 28, 2011 4:41 PM PST up reply actions
A four-year extension after successive 2-year extensions is not inconceivable.
Also note that if he takes a shorter contract now, he can make a Cliff Lee-style gamble and expect to get one more big deal before he’s really past his expiration date… except for Lincecum he’ll go back to FA as a 33 year old instead of a 37 year old.
Tim seems exactly like the kind of guy who would make such a gamble, given his stated contentment with going year-to-year for now.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
a year? i thought this was the last year on his contract?
by orange velvet on Dec 28, 2011 1:14 PM PST up reply actions
Nope
He won’t hit FA until 2014.
Cain on the other hand.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
that is arb. he doesnt have any dollar amount does he for 2012?
by orange velvet on Dec 28, 2011 1:15 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, where’s those damn tweets about them talking to each other and Sabean being on bended knee with a checkbook and box of chocolates?
by Dingoes Ate My Baby on Dec 28, 2011 1:15 PM PST up reply actions
6/$150
You heard it here first.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Dec 28, 2011 1:38 PM PST up reply actions
Actually, I read it
Bold Prediction: Pablo Sandoval finishes 1st or 2nd in 2012 NL MVP voting. I'm Twittering now (well maybe not literally now): @GoofusMcP
I think the Giants should seize on the opportunity to do a Matt Moore/Evan Longoria type deal with Madison Bumgarner and Buster Posey. It’s too late to do a similar deal now with Pablo Sandoval, but they should extend him too. When Lincecum and Cain become super-super-expensive, the Giants won’t have the luxury of waiting until arbitration to lock up Bumgarner and Posey long-term… they will already cost too much.
I encourage you to check out Fish Stripes, Catch-28 and my twitter.
People talk about the Moore and Longoria extensions all the time. That’s because they’re notably in how uncommon and team-friendly they are. This is a case where it’s really easier said than done.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
I wish someone here or over at the Rays' blog site
would propose this suggestion.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
Step 1) Offer Posey and Bumgarner 12/20 extensions.
Step 2) ???
Step 3) Profit
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
The time to do it was when his fastball velocity had dropped like crazy. Of course, that would’ve had most people up in arms as well.
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
Or perhaps after he got it back and had just been called up in 2010.
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
Bizzarro as it sounds, I think winning a world championship really got in their way of striking while the iron was hot with Bumgarner. After 2010 would have been the first truly logical juncture to extend the kid, in my opinion, especially if we’re going to throw Matt Moore comparisons around.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
I think you may be right. I think there was a significant impetus to keep the WS-winning rotation together. Trading Sanchez off his 2010 season would’ve netted way more than just Melky Cabrera.
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
Yup.
And as we learned from the Marlins, a post-WS fire sale is a serious downer. I don’t think the org would have even fathomed breaking up the band and putting the gate receipts at risk.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
Obviously hindsight is 20/20, and we had no idea Vogelsong would Vogelsong us all, but trading Sanchez would’ve been seriously awesome. They might have even been able to have obtained a SS at that point.
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
Stephen Drew got moved that offseason.
#notsayingjustsaying
Also, you can look at what the A’s got for Gio Gonzalez. Gonzalez and Sanchez are probably the closest thing you will see to mirror images in baseball.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
Wait, what? Do you mean extended? Hasn’t he always been with the Dbacks?
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
Errrr
I was thinking of Jason Bartlett (jponry’s white whale at the time, IIRC).
Sorry about that.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
I think there’s a “have” too many in that last sentence.
Cash rules everything around me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar dollar bill y'all
I AM ONE OF THE HAVES
YOU ARE CLEARLY A HAVENOT
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
Does Friedman have a magical extension-signing power that no other GM is blessed with?
I encourage you to check out Fish Stripes, Catch-28 and my twitter.
No, but he is necessarily more aggressive about it than just about every other GM in the sport.
The sport may never see the likes of another Longoria for a long, long time. They bet on the right player at the right time, and Longoria’s agent did the boy no favors.
As for Matt Moore, they signed him after, what, three appearances at the major league level? That is pretty much unheard of. Why? Because you’re giving yourself that much more time to get burned on the investment, especially where pitchers are concerned.
The Rays are run by Wall Street owners, and it shows through every step of the organization. They simply do not do business like anyone else in the sport. Getting their sort of results isn’t simply as easy as putting a plaid-billed cap and throwing money at the nearest draft pick.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
one has to wonder what they’d be like if they had more money. Not necessarily being more competitive, but would they start doing the same dumb things other front offices do just because they can afford it.
by Dingoes Ate My Baby on Dec 28, 2011 3:24 PM PST up reply actions
I saw someone else making this exact argument the other day.
Maybe on MLBTR. It’s pretty much the same question as, “Would Billy Beane have been any good in Boston?”
My inclination is to say yes, but I don’t know if there’s a good example at present. For the most part, there are big-market GMs and small-market GMs.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
Beane would have been good but, like Theo, the ability to sign some free agent for ridiculous amounts of money would have been too good pass up. Like a person who’s salary doubles and they go on a spending binge because they can.
by Dingoes Ate My Baby on Dec 28, 2011 3:29 PM PST up reply actions
Still not convinced that the Crawford deal was a disaster.
Carl has a looooong time to prove people wrong.
Though as we can see right now… When a team has a large payroll, the fans expect them to use it. So maybe there’s something to the theory.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
There’s the Lackey signing too. As well as Matsuzaka, Julio Longo and JD Drew
by Dingoes Ate My Baby on Dec 28, 2011 4:01 PM PST up reply actions
you should look at the contract the rays got crawford for...now that was a good one.
Ride the tiger...You can see his stripes but you know he's clean.
by James Westfall on Dec 28, 2011 4:46 PM PST up reply actions
the Giants should seize on the opportunity to do a Matt Moore/Evan Longoria type deal
Presumes that such an opportunity exists to be seized oh god I’M FALLING IN
My son, so I'm told. And this stalwart young lad (Hi, free f.p. #14!).
Hey guys new fan here...
Excited to be a part of this awesome site, but I was wondering if anyone could give me the “scoop” on what’s popular/infamous, basically what do I need to know to be an intelligent poster here. Thanks
-Jumbo
Infamous would be a "generous" username
I think you have mastured that.
"I don't get out of bed, for a million bucks!"
- Edgar Renteria or a hooker bribing a family man?
by Scooter Ellis on Dec 28, 2011 12:54 PM PST up reply actions
My Little Pony is considered the height of coolness.
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Dec 28, 2011 1:09 PM PST up reply actions
Needs more .gifs
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
The key is long rambling lectures on how we should express our love of the Giants
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 28, 2011 1:10 PM PST up reply actions
Yes. Please include helpful pointers about specific areas in which we can improve.
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Dec 28, 2011 1:34 PM PST up reply actions
Too little, too late.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
Depends on the state
cuz there are concealed weapons laws in most states.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
He knows about Alex's penis
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 28, 2011 1:15 PM PST up reply actions
You know that Yahweh character who keeps popping up in the first half of the Bible? POPPING UP? Think about it.
Andre Ethier: Gross-o-Matic 5000
-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler
SWORD FIGHT
Proud parent of SD-born Shane Loux.
If Cain is with us, who can be against us? - atxgiantsfan
by jhiat00 on Dec 28, 2011 1:25 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I saw Eastern Promises. I know what’s going on.
Andre Ethier: Gross-o-Matic 5000
-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler
floppypenis!
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Dec 28, 2011 1:34 PM PST up reply actions
So, you’re Dallas McPherson. That makes more sense, now.
"Baseball is a red-blooded sport for red-blooded men. It's no pink tea, and mollycoddles had better stay out." -Ty Cobb
Mayor of Smug.
No, he’s the city of Dallas.
Cash rules everything around me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar dollar bill y'all
His brother is named Fort Worth.
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Dec 28, 2011 1:42 PM PST up reply actions
Dallas Raines
orange-skinned weatherman extraordinaire.
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 28, 2011 1:45 PM PST up reply actions
This would be my thought. Sock puppet to liven things up.
I'm a Giants Fan, but I'll always be rooting for Matt Downs
Adopted Son:Dan Burkhart , Future Backup To Buster Posey.
Sometimes goofus puts a sock on his penis and does skits with it.
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Dec 28, 2011 1:43 PM PST up reply actions 4 recs
Mr. Disaster flexing his comedic muscles once again.
I'm a Giants Fan, but I'll always be rooting for Matt Downs
Adopted Son:Dan Burkhart , Future Backup To Buster Posey.
I’d prefer he put a sock on it at least
go rowand
by lincypoo i wuv u on Dec 28, 2011 7:23 PM PST up reply actions
Nope, not me
Bold Prediction: Pablo Sandoval finishes 1st or 2nd in 2012 NL MVP voting. I'm Twittering now (well maybe not literally now): @GoofusMcP
I’m sorry, it’s really hard to talk to you when… you know. Trying really hard to maintain composure/eye contact. I am really sorry. What were you saying?
My son, so I'm told. And this stalwart young lad (Hi, free f.p. #14!).
I'm so confused.
Adopted Giant: Mike Fontenot
He's like Grant, but fun size.
Occasionally, I tweet.
rule number 1
there is no such thing as an intelligent poster
Ride the tiger...You can see his stripes but you know he's clean.
by James Westfall on Dec 28, 2011 4:47 PM PST up reply actions
Point: Matt Cain’s extension (4 years/$9M, 2007-10, plus 2011 club option)
Counterpoint: Noah Lowry’s extension (4 years/$9.25M, 2006-2009, plus 2010 club option)
"When the Giants call up a 21-year-old Venezuelan catcher who started the year in San Jose, was hitting well with poor plate discipline, but wasn't on Baseball America's preseason list of the organization's 30 best prospects, only good things can happen."
Congratulations, Hector!
Hmm...
What frustrates me is that the organization seems to judge wasting $10 M on a prospect as more risky than spending a similar amount of money on creaky veterans over 1 or 2 year contracts.
Seems like the risk / reward calculation is a bit out of whack…
Proud of both my adopted son, Baggs, and my ward, Ryan LOLlis.
this.
grape- you nailed it…
Ride the tiger...You can see his stripes but you know he's clean.
by James Westfall on Dec 28, 2011 4:55 PM PST up reply actions
Slut
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 28, 2011 1:11 PM PST up reply actions
he’ll likely become a Super Two, which is a normal two that gets power from a differently colored sun.
Funny.
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 28, 2011 1:06 PM PST reply actions
Why are we always on the side of the team saving itself a few millions? Why shouldn’t pitchers as amazing as Cain/Lincecum/Madbum not make as much as they deserve? (Here, preferrably.)
Just play a Brandon or two, come on!
Considering the Giants “finances,” one issue could be if they throw all this money at the three of them, do they then have money to throw at Pablo and Posey? There’s only so much money and so many good young players they can afford to keep
by Dingoes Ate My Baby on Dec 28, 2011 1:16 PM PST up reply actions
here is a crazy thought
trade tim lincecum..i know i know the guy is TIMMY “the freak” Lincecum…but lets be real his numbers are dipping and he is going to command 20-25 million a year quick. it makes no sense to pay 20% of your team budget on 33 starts. The Giants should flip him over to NY and get Montero, Banuelos, Betances and Mason Williams lock up Cain and Bumgarner and move on…
Ride the tiger...You can see his stripes but you know he's clean.
by James Westfall on Dec 28, 2011 4:59 PM PST up reply actions
If you think the Giants are getting that package for Lincecum
I have a bridge in Brooklyn I’d like to sell you.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
IF
the Giants traded Lincecum they would be in line to receive the largest package of prospects ever, it would be unprecedented, especially if they traded him with two years of arb left. While he might not get that exact package…Tim is about 5 times the pitcher Gio Gonzalez is and Gonzalez just returned 3 highly regarded prospects and a good MOR in Milone…
it is not unreasonable to assume the Giants could bring in a huge haul.
Ride the tiger...You can see his stripes but you know he's clean.
by James Westfall on Dec 28, 2011 5:15 PM PST up reply actions
Those kind of trades (and even the idea of trading Cain) are the kinds of trades you make if you don’t expect or want to contend. if you think the team will contend and have every expectation of going for it, then you don’t make that trade. Unless this season goes in the crapper and goes in the crapper fast, you keep everyone on board and ride it to the end.
by Dingoes Ate My Baby on Dec 28, 2011 7:50 PM PST up reply actions
I've never liked 'The Freak' nickname.
Proud parent of SD-born Shane Loux.
If Cain is with us, who can be against us? - atxgiantsfan
by jhiat00 on Dec 29, 2011 6:18 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Aye.
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Dec 29, 2011 9:21 AM PST up reply actions
there are better nicknames.
Adopted Giant: Eddie I Have It Grant.
TSFGWTWS DESPITE Botchy, not BECAUSE of him.
And by common usage, it’s not even really accurate. He’s more “normal” physically than a great deal of professional baseball players. There’s nothing particularly freakish about him. No 86 inch arms or anything. It’s his optimization of what he has that is special. They should call him the Optimizer.
Once more, coming to you by proxy.
by howtheyscored on Dec 29, 2011 11:35 AM PST up reply actions
Why are we always on the side of the team saving itself a few millions?
This has never been my stated position. In fact, it has been pretty much the opposite of this; not only for the Giants pitchers but also for improving the offense.
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 28, 2011 1:16 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, I don’t know whom that’s addressing.
My son, so I'm told. And this stalwart young lad (Hi, free f.p. #14!).
You’re right, it’s just sometimes it seems like “locking that player up” is just to save money for the org. It’s like whichever-very-smart-person said in the last thread, “sometimes you can spend money wisely.”
Just play a Brandon or two, come on!
Extensions signed early for promising players can often save money in the long run. The Giants have, up until this year, been saving untold millions by paying Matt Cain no more than $7, whereas this year he will be making $15, which is much closer to what he is worth. Had they just let Cain go from year to year as in arbitration or one one-year deals based off arbitration numbers, they probably would have had to pay him more like $10-$12 million. That money instead went to the likes of supporting pieces like Burrell, Fontenot, and Torres, instead of some AAAA schmucks.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
I have been on this side of the fence for weeks/months now
it is better to risk the money while they are young because…they are young and if they do get injured they are able to recover and still be valuable, if you structure the deal correctly you can still get value out of it even if they dont become a #1, you are still able to trade their team frienly deal if necessary, and many more…the ginats need to jump on the extension wagon because posey, sandoval, bumgarner type players are not a dime a dozen…in fact now is the perfect time to extend buster posey…the guy just had twins he now more than ever realizes his own mortality and would jump at the chance to get guaranteed money.
Ride the tiger...You can see his stripes but you know he's clean.
by James Westfall on Dec 28, 2011 5:03 PM PST up reply actions
It’s to take advantage of the timing in anticipation of their value exceeding what the team can afford.
My son, so I'm told. And this stalwart young lad (Hi, free f.p. #14!).
The only time the Giants have overpaid for pitching that I can recall is Zito. Of course, he is worth about 10 bad contracts all by himself, but still. They’re pretty damn good at evaluating pitching. Or lucky.
Just play a Brandon or two, come on!
I’m not sure what you’re getting at.
“Locking them up” is just signing them to longish deals before they’re in a position to negotiate for far more down the road.
Security for them, savings (and risk) for the team.
My son, so I'm told. And this stalwart young lad (Hi, free f.p. #14!).
This man speaks truth.
Cain, Lowry, and Wilson are the only extension deals the Giants have signed recently that I can think of.
Cain has worked out well. Lowry is a sad example of why you don’t sign pitchers to 8-year deals. And Wilson’s extension has probably been worth the value, though he’ll need to bounce back this year to really sew that up.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
It seems like the starting position of the argument for a lot of folks is “this player will always be this good, better get him at a discount now.” You just never know.
Just play a Brandon or two, come on!
You don’t. Therein lies the risk.
So you ask yourself what you’d be willing to pay to get in early in the event that they do continue to perform at that level or even improve.
You consider what dollar/year deal you’d be okay with, acknowledging that you might end up with an injured or dead arm for a year or three.
At no point do you disregard the risk.
My son, so I'm told. And this stalwart young lad (Hi, free f.p. #14!).
Matt Morris?
Bold Prediction: Pablo Sandoval finishes 1st or 2nd in 2012 NL MVP voting. I'm Twittering now (well maybe not literally now): @GoofusMcP
there is always the Pirates
to dump or dead deals on
Ride the tiger...You can see his stripes but you know he's clean.
by James Westfall on Dec 28, 2011 5:16 PM PST up reply actions
The issue is when the amount you are paying the amazing pitching is either: A) well above what can be considered fair value for that pitcher’s production, or B) you are paying a handful of players such a percentage of your overall payroll that it interferes with your ability to put players even above the likes of Emmanuel Burriss elsewhere.
Just as the Giants have been hamstrung by Zito and Rowand contracts since 2008, so too could they be hamstrung by too many equally large contracts, even if the players who hold them are relatively good.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
Yeah. Buying wins at the free market rate is a terrible idea, even for the Yankees.
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
buying wins via free agency is
the least productive way a team can do it…better to take the risk early than try and chase wins at inflated prices.
Ride the tiger...You can see his stripes but you know he's clean.
by James Westfall on Dec 28, 2011 5:17 PM PST up reply actions
You could be just as hamstrung by a bunch of shitty players with one year contracts.
Just play a Brandon or two, come on!
But one-year contracts make for easy self-correction. Miguel Tejada sucked. Guess what? We don’t have to deal with him anymore (hallelujah). The Giants as an organization have another crack at getting someone competent, or putting that money towards pieces that are working that are already in the system.
Short term deals are a method of risk mitigation.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
The Tejada deal really wasn’t bad.
Cash rules everything around me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar dollar bill y'all
What
that’s complete heresy!
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
It didn’t work out, obviously, but Tejada was an All-Star in 2009 and still pretty good with San Diego in 2010. His bat wasn’t supposed to completely disappear.
Cash rules everything around me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar dollar bill y'all
I would agree with you
but then that would totally undercut your credibility.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
I didn’t mean to say that the Tejada deal was bad. I was more or less fine with it when he signed. But it didn’t work out. Because it was a one year deal, the Giants have already moved on.
Deals like Rowand’s are what bite teams in the ass. In fact, I would bet the Rowand and Zito contracts have been so ugly for the team that they have actually shifted the organization’s approach. 1-2 years for FAs, and no more than 4 years for pitchers where they can help it.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
I wouldn’t be surprised by that too. The ole “once bitten, twice shy, stop signing players just because the owner think’s it would be a good way to bring fans into the stadium” type thing
by Dingoes Ate My Baby on Dec 28, 2011 1:41 PM PST up reply actions
Oh, yeah. I wasn’t disagreeing. The length was part of why it was fine.
Cash rules everything around me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar dollar bill y'all
Compared to the Renteria contract (ignoring postseason heroics), it was a much better deal for the Giants.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
Absolutely.
On the other hand, Tejada never wore a penis hat.
Cash rules everything around me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar dollar bill y'all
Yeah. Though I must take a moment to credit our real shortstop for 2009-10, Juan Uribe for helping get them to the postseason in the first place so Renteria could do his thang.
Idle thought: If Sandoval doesn’t tank in 2010, Renteria probably doesn’t play much in the WS.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
On the other hand, if Sandoval doesn’t tank, we get to see him in the World Series. I’m still sad that he barely played.
Cash rules everything around me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar dollar bill y'all
Yeah.
Hopefully it gives him a drive to get back there, though. Preferably as a Giant.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
And they have Crawford, Frodo and Burriss to play SS. No problem!
Just play a Brandon or two, come on!
Mayo is a scourge that besets Western Civilization
by Dingoes Ate My Baby on Dec 28, 2011 1:20 PM PST up reply actions
the worst part is that everything in California puts mayo on it so if you hate it, you always have to ask not to have it, even on things that there should be no way in hell it should be on. Like a chicken teryiaki sandwich or a cheese steak sandwich.
by Dingoes Ate My Baby on Dec 28, 2011 1:22 PM PST up reply actions
everything in California puts mayo on it
Which is pretty bizarre, considering how goddamn health-conscious we’re all supposed to be.
I have Croix de Candlesticks older than you.
Golden Gate Beer Bars | Tweetybox
by troymccluresf on Dec 28, 2011 1:58 PM PST up reply actions
They use this one:
I'm a Giants Fan, but I'll always be rooting for Matt Downs
Adopted Son:Dan Burkhart , Future Backup To Buster Posey.
I like olive oil mayo… especially when made at home.
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Dec 28, 2011 2:02 PM PST up reply actions
I don’t hate mayo, but it basically functions as sandwich lube, and at that point, why wouldn’t you want mustard or something that actually adds flavor?
I have Croix de Candlesticks older than you.
Golden Gate Beer Bars | Tweetybox
by troymccluresf on Dec 28, 2011 2:11 PM PST up reply actions
Because
you may not want to overwhelm the main ingredients in the sandwich.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
If mustard isn’t a main ingredient, then I don’t want it.
Andre Ethier: Gross-o-Matic 5000
-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler
I find mustard on a roast beef sandwich to be repulsive, which is odd, since I slather it on many other sandwiches.
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Dec 28, 2011 2:15 PM PST up reply actions
Mustard on sandwiches is good with so many things that seem like they would be terrible with mustard.
Cash rules everything around me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar dollar bill y'all
ketchup works just fine with anything so sometimes I’m amazed that, say, i’ll put ketchup on a turkey sandwich and people will icked out. On the other hand, mustard on a cheese steak sandwich or anything but ketchup on a burger is the sign of a soulless person
by Dingoes Ate My Baby on Dec 28, 2011 3:27 PM PST up reply actions
Disagree. Aioli on a burger. Unpack that!
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
I have a weakness for ailoili, I will admit. Sometimes, on the right sandwich at the right moment, yum.
by Dingoes Ate My Baby on Dec 28, 2011 3:29 PM PST up reply actions
Ketchup has a low VORC. It’s not ever going to tremendously enhance anything.
Cash rules everything around me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar dollar bill y'all
by El Person on Dec 28, 2011 3:29 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
That's a rec.
I'm a Giants Fan, but I'll always be rooting for Matt Downs
Adopted Son:Dan Burkhart , Future Backup To Buster Posey.
I’m convinced that ketchup and ranch are for people who wouldn’t like what they’re eating otherwise.
I am so controversial. How do I not have my own reality show yet.
My son, so I'm told. And this stalwart young lad (Hi, free f.p. #14!).
That’s my theory on ham. The only ham people ever seem to like is the stuff drenched in honey and sugar and other goo.
I have Croix de Candlesticks older than you.
Golden Gate Beer Bars | Tweetybox
by troymccluresf on Dec 28, 2011 3:38 PM PST up reply actions
I like gammon steak, which is basically thick, unadulterated (outside of salt) ham steak with a fried egg on top. You don’t see it much in the states, but it’s all over England.
"Baseball is a red-blooded sport for red-blooded men. It's no pink tea, and mollycoddles had better stay out." -Ty Cobb
Mayor of Smug.
that with chips is, like, the best pub food
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
I had no idea ketchup was seen as the condiment for the proletariat. I thought it was just something tasty that works on lots of things.
by Dingoes Ate My Baby on Dec 28, 2011 7:52 PM PST up reply actions
It’s good on somethings but only if it’s Best Foods. None of the Kraft or Miracle whip crap.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
I like how posters on this site liken white toppings that they don’t like as “(mythical creature) jizz”. I remember Lars referring to cake frosting as “elf jizz”
"Baseball is a red-blooded sport for red-blooded men. It's no pink tea, and mollycoddles had better stay out." -Ty Cobb
Mayor of Smug.
by rotorueter on Dec 28, 2011 1:27 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Rotorueter jizz
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
Also used as cake frosting.
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 28, 2011 2:58 PM PST up reply actions
At least offer to buy me a drink, first.
"Baseball is a red-blooded sport for red-blooded men. It's no pink tea, and mollycoddles had better stay out." -Ty Cobb
Mayor of Smug.
Oh, I don’t know if I’ve laughed this loudly unexpectedly at work in quite some time.
I have Croix de Candlesticks older than you.
Golden Gate Beer Bars | Tweetybox
by troymccluresf on Dec 28, 2011 1:59 PM PST up reply actions
BUUURRRN FOUL COMPUTER!!
/standard ’It’s great if you make it at home’ response/lie
Andre Ethier: Gross-o-Matic 5000
-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler
Also, I’m not one of those freaks that considers salsa a condiment, so don’t even go there.
Ask me about my blog.
Boy, I can’t wait to eat that monkey…
go rowand
by lincypoo i wuv u on Dec 28, 2011 7:26 PM PST up reply actions
You guys have Ketchup way to high on the list.
I'm a Giants Fan, but I'll always be rooting for Matt Downs
Adopted Son:Dan Burkhart , Future Backup To Buster Posey.
soy sauce, ketchup, mayo, mustard, hot sauce.. I’m the guy who tells the taco trucks to make my burrito mild.
You want to see a walk? Then go watch the mailman.
I don’t like spicy things at all, but my threshold for spicy is pretty high, since most of the food my parents eat is at least a little bit hot.
Cash rules everything around me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar dollar bill y'all
I don’t like spicy things at all
Wait….What ? That doesn’t seem at all possible.
I'm a Giants Fan, but I'll always be rooting for Matt Downs
Adopted Son:Dan Burkhart , Future Backup To Buster Posey.
No chance in hell. Thought twice as I posted it.
I'm a Giants Fan, but I'll always be rooting for Matt Downs
Adopted Son:Dan Burkhart , Future Backup To Buster Posey.
NOPA
I have Croix de Candlesticks older than you.
Golden Gate Beer Bars | Tweetybox
by troymccluresf on Dec 28, 2011 1:59 PM PST up reply actions
yeah I hate Worcestershire sauce as well
Andre Ethier: Gross-o-Matic 5000
-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler
I thought you’re only supposed to use that stuff for cooking. I didn’t realize people use it as a condiment.
You want to see a walk? Then go watch the mailman.
It’s not terribly versatile, but sure you can.
My son, so I'm told. And this stalwart young lad (Hi, free f.p. #14!).
Steaks
and steak sandwiches
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
Never on a good steak though.
Proud parent of SD-born Shane Loux.
If Cain is with us, who can be against us? - atxgiantsfan
Sometimes I like eating low quality steaks because it’s an excuse to slather the thing with A1, Worcestershire, and salt and pepper.
"Baseball is a red-blooded sport for red-blooded men. It's no pink tea, and mollycoddles had better stay out." -Ty Cobb
Mayor of Smug.
Those are all good things. I think 57 sauce is highly underrated. It goes really good with many fried things too.
Proud parent of SD-born Shane Loux.
If Cain is with us, who can be against us? - atxgiantsfan
horseradish
horseradish is amazing. because fuck you, sinuses and mouth, that’s why.
by Lies and Perfidy on Dec 28, 2011 1:26 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Horseradish is in the line of succession for King Of Condiments.
I'm a Giants Fan, but I'll always be rooting for Matt Downs
Adopted Son:Dan Burkhart , Future Backup To Buster Posey.
It will never triumph because the wasabi faction will always split the vote.
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Dec 28, 2011 1:44 PM PST up reply actions
Sure as the 4th son of the King’s youngest brother.
Proud parent of SD-born Shane Loux.
If Cain is with us, who can be against us? - atxgiantsfan
I said “in the line of succession” didn’t I. Is he the guy with the big ears and is kind of crosseyed ?
I'm a Giants Fan, but I'll always be rooting for Matt Downs
Adopted Son:Dan Burkhart , Future Backup To Buster Posey.
ugh mayonnaise is like eggs took a poop
by Lies and Perfidy on Dec 28, 2011 1:22 PM PST up reply actions
It’s as ann as the nose on Plain’s face!
Andre Ethier: Gross-o-Matic 5000
-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler
I had a friend who made brownies with mayo because he didn’t have eggs.
by GuyWhiteyCorngood on Dec 28, 2011 1:50 PM PST up reply actions
I have heard of that actually. Someone here posted that they always put mayo in their mashed potatoes as well. Both seem a little off to me.
I'm a Giants Fan, but I'll always be rooting for Matt Downs
Adopted Son:Dan Burkhart , Future Backup To Buster Posey.
a chocolate mayonaise cake is really wonderful and doesnt dry out
no eggs or oil needed
by orange velvet on Dec 28, 2011 1:51 PM PST up reply actions
My wife makes a delicious Guinness cake.
Proud parent of SD-born Shane Loux.
If Cain is with us, who can be against us? - atxgiantsfan
Now we're talking !!
Not a big cake fan, but I would be willing to try one made with Guinness.
I'm a Giants Fan, but I'll always be rooting for Matt Downs
Adopted Son:Dan Burkhart , Future Backup To Buster Posey.
It's pretty damn good.
Proud parent of SD-born Shane Loux.
If Cain is with us, who can be against us? - atxgiantsfan
Just the regular old Guinness.
A fringe benefit is that there are 5 more left when she’s done!
Proud parent of SD-born Shane Loux.
If Cain is with us, who can be against us? - atxgiantsfan
There’d be two left when I was done.
I have Croix de Candlesticks older than you.
Golden Gate Beer Bars | Tweetybox
by troymccluresf on Dec 28, 2011 2:12 PM PST up reply actions
I have made griled cheese sammiches with mayo on the outside instead of butter. Works great. I still prefer butter though.
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Dec 28, 2011 1:59 PM PST up reply actions
Aioli
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
Tzaziki!
Proud parent of SD-born Shane Loux.
If Cain is with us, who can be against us? - atxgiantsfan
Also delicious. Skordaila
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
Mustardayonnaise
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Dec 28, 2011 1:39 PM PST up reply actions
Yes
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Dec 28, 2011 1:37 PM PST up reply actions
you again...
my dad had a first name of dick and a llast name that made the first name utterly ridiculous when put together. You should be happy jumbo penis is not your real name
by orange velvet on Dec 28, 2011 1:30 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah I well have some very serious personality disorders, and
my dad recommended this username so I would regain some self-confidence, thanks dad
It’s a Christmas ornament, Einstein.
"Baseball is a red-blooded sport for red-blooded men. It's no pink tea, and mollycoddles had better stay out." -Ty Cobb
Mayor of Smug.
Are you Tennessee Vols coach Pat (Head) Summitt?
Her father’s name was Richard.
Thank you Edgar Renteria, for hitting the ball three feet higher.
by tobias on Dec 28, 2011 4:20 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Your father’s name is Dick Trickle? Dick Pole?
Still the father of two-time Cy Young Award winner Tim Lincecum.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
Miles Head’s brother Dick!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 28, 2011 7:13 PM PST up reply actions
DIck Sprinkle
Though it is clearly well-informed, we find his argument unconvincing; however, the possibility that we are too stupid to comprehend it deserves serious consideration. Germane Literature: The Cutting Edge 13:2, 4/2006
Dick Trickle
Proud parent of SD-born Shane Loux.
If Cain is with us, who can be against us? - atxgiantsfan
Why the Hall of Fame is ridiculous, Part 190283893
Catfish Hunter is in and Vida Blue isn’t.
Cash rules everything around me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar dollar bill y'all
I saw blue play and was right in front of him while he was warming up. some rude fans came over
and started calling him aan old nobody and a fucker nob ody wanted. it really was sad.
He just ignored them. for all the money and fame sometimes it must suck to be them.
by orange velvet on Dec 28, 2011 1:32 PM PST up reply actions
Either I’m misreading those graphs or they do not jive with one another at all.
Just play a Brandon or two, come on!
Maybe you just aren’t fluent in jive.
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Dec 28, 2011 1:45 PM PST up reply actions
I think it’s the fact the Hunter is Blue and Blue is Red.
I'm a Giants Fan, but I'll always be rooting for Matt Downs
Adopted Son:Dan Burkhart , Future Backup To Buster Posey.
That’s just the sort of inversion that makes jive so difficult for novices.
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Dec 28, 2011 1:46 PM PST up reply actions
The first graph is year-to-year rWAR. The second graph is cumulative rWAR.
Note the corresponding dip at age 29 by Blue, where Hunter closed the gap. But in pretty much every other year after age 20, Blue was as good as or better than Hunter. Consequentially, Vida Blue was significantly more valuable than Hunter over the course of their respective careers.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
Vida Blue was significantly more valuable than Hunter over the course of their respective careers.
Agreed, but Hunter’s mustache was a perennial All-Star.
I'm a Giants Fan, but I'll always be rooting for Matt Downs
Adopted Son:Dan Burkhart , Future Backup To Buster Posey.
cocaine is a hell of a drug
Ride the tiger...You can see his stripes but you know he's clean.
by James Westfall on Dec 28, 2011 5:21 PM PST up reply actions
BREAKING
Andrew Bailey to the Sawx.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
In return, the A's get Josh Reddick.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
A's brinkmanship
The A’s are trying to make themselves the worse team in baseball. MLB is trying as hard as possible to ignore it.
Brian Sabean: "We’re hoping like hell that Burriss can turn into the player we all forecasted him to be" / When it’s time for a change, think Barry Zito's fastball is a changeup. / ESPN: "The Mets swapped Carlos Beltran for Class A right-hander Zack Wheeler in July. Three months later, Baseball America has anointed Wheeler the Mets' top prospect." / Brian Sabean: "We didn't know specifically that we couldn't bring Carlos(Beltran) back" / The next time Freddy Sanchez gets hurt, it'll be time to Panik. / Brian Sabean: People really don't know the baseball card or the all around talent lets say, of a (Melky)Cabrera or (Angel)Pagan. And quite frankly, we're gonna have to hit on a (Aubrey)Huff coming back and being the player he was in 2010"
by Grant_ME_MERCY on Dec 28, 2011 1:58 PM PST up reply actions
The A’s have been doing this for the better part of a decade. Sounds like they’re loading up for when the new park is finished, and then use the revenue to finally keep some of these players if attendance rebounds like they hope.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
They are actively preparing for something that may not happen and within a timeline that is unknown?
I consider this brinkmanship. They are trying to force the issue.
Brian Sabean: "We’re hoping like hell that Burriss can turn into the player we all forecasted him to be" / When it’s time for a change, think Barry Zito's fastball is a changeup. / ESPN: "The Mets swapped Carlos Beltran for Class A right-hander Zack Wheeler in July. Three months later, Baseball America has anointed Wheeler the Mets' top prospect." / Brian Sabean: "We didn't know specifically that we couldn't bring Carlos(Beltran) back" / The next time Freddy Sanchez gets hurt, it'll be time to Panik. / Brian Sabean: People really don't know the baseball card or the all around talent lets say, of a (Melky)Cabrera or (Angel)Pagan. And quite frankly, we're gonna have to hit on a (Aubrey)Huff coming back and being the player he was in 2010"
by Grant_ME_MERCY on Dec 28, 2011 2:06 PM PST up reply actions
It really has been 10 years, tho. That’s not a very good strategy for long term, unless they’re getting kickbacks from the Yankees or something.
Just play a Brandon or two, come on!
Luxury taxes and revenue sharing.
They’re probably getting some money from the Yankees and Sox.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
more than $30 million last season
in revenue-sharing money.
Brian Sabean: "We’re hoping like hell that Burriss can turn into the player we all forecasted him to be" / When it’s time for a change, think Barry Zito's fastball is a changeup. / ESPN: "The Mets swapped Carlos Beltran for Class A right-hander Zack Wheeler in July. Three months later, Baseball America has anointed Wheeler the Mets' top prospect." / Brian Sabean: "We didn't know specifically that we couldn't bring Carlos(Beltran) back" / The next time Freddy Sanchez gets hurt, it'll be time to Panik. / Brian Sabean: People really don't know the baseball card or the all around talent lets say, of a (Melky)Cabrera or (Angel)Pagan. And quite frankly, we're gonna have to hit on a (Aubrey)Huff coming back and being the player he was in 2010"
by Grant_ME_MERCY on Dec 28, 2011 2:15 PM PST up reply actions
They made the playoffs in 2006. I don’t think self sabotage has been going on for ten years. They made a strong effort to put a competitive team on the field last season.
Brian Sabean: "We’re hoping like hell that Burriss can turn into the player we all forecasted him to be" / When it’s time for a change, think Barry Zito's fastball is a changeup. / ESPN: "The Mets swapped Carlos Beltran for Class A right-hander Zack Wheeler in July. Three months later, Baseball America has anointed Wheeler the Mets' top prospect." / Brian Sabean: "We didn't know specifically that we couldn't bring Carlos(Beltran) back" / The next time Freddy Sanchez gets hurt, it'll be time to Panik. / Brian Sabean: People really don't know the baseball card or the all around talent lets say, of a (Melky)Cabrera or (Angel)Pagan. And quite frankly, we're gonna have to hit on a (Aubrey)Huff coming back and being the player he was in 2010"
by Grant_ME_MERCY on Dec 28, 2011 2:10 PM PST up reply actions
First of all, cost control is not really brinkmanship. It’s pretty much the opposite. Living beyond your means to retain a closer when you still can’t put butts in seats is brinkmanship.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
So you’re saying they couldn’t afford to keep any of the pitchers they traded away this off season?
Brian Sabean: "We’re hoping like hell that Burriss can turn into the player we all forecasted him to be" / When it’s time for a change, think Barry Zito's fastball is a changeup. / ESPN: "The Mets swapped Carlos Beltran for Class A right-hander Zack Wheeler in July. Three months later, Baseball America has anointed Wheeler the Mets' top prospect." / Brian Sabean: "We didn't know specifically that we couldn't bring Carlos(Beltran) back" / The next time Freddy Sanchez gets hurt, it'll be time to Panik. / Brian Sabean: People really don't know the baseball card or the all around talent lets say, of a (Melky)Cabrera or (Angel)Pagan. And quite frankly, we're gonna have to hit on a (Aubrey)Huff coming back and being the player he was in 2010"
by Grant_ME_MERCY on Dec 28, 2011 2:13 PM PST up reply actions
They sold high on Cahill and Gonzalez, in return for premium pitching talent, and traded Bailey while he had some team control left, since they don’t want to spend $8-10 million on a closer as he gets closer to free agency. In return they got some truly grade-A prospects, and replacements for the likes of Kurt Suzuki who will be too expensive for them soon.
This is what they A’s do, and it’s really all they can do right now. They’re unlikely to contend in 2011 against the Angels and Rangers, so they are getting what value they can right now to keep costs down so they can contend in the future. They have all been pretty damn good deals for the Oakland, too.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
.
Sold high on Cahill? That’s questionable. 2010 would have made a lot more sense.
You: traded Bailey while he had some team control left
Boston Herald:
Bailey, eligible for arbitration for the first time after making only $465,000 this year, would be under the Red Sox control for the next three seasons.
You: since they don’t want to spend $8-10 million on a closer
MLBTR projects a $3.5MM salary for the 27-year-old right-hander in 2012.
You: This is what they A’s do
2010 Oakland A’s off season(Wikipedia):
-November 3, picked up club options on OF Coco Crisp ($5.75M) and IF Mark Ellis ($6M).
-December 14, signed free agent DH Hideki Matsui to a one-year, $4.25M deal.
-December 21, signed free agent P Rich Harden to a one-year, $1.5M deal.
-January 18, signed free agent P Grant Balfour to a two-year, $8.1M deal + third-year club option. DFA’d P Clayton Mortensen. Avoid arbitration with P Dallas Braden (1yr/$3.35M), OF Conor Jackson (1yr/$3.2M), 3B Kevin Kouzmanoff (1yr/$4.75M), OF Josh Willingham (1yr/$6M).
-January 19, signed free agent P Brian Fuentes to a two-year, $10.5M deal + third-year club option.
Brian Sabean: "We’re hoping like hell that Burriss can turn into the player we all forecasted him to be" / When it’s time for a change, think Barry Zito's fastball is a changeup. / ESPN: "The Mets swapped Carlos Beltran for Class A right-hander Zack Wheeler in July. Three months later, Baseball America has anointed Wheeler the Mets' top prospect." / Brian Sabean: "We didn't know specifically that we couldn't bring Carlos(Beltran) back" / The next time Freddy Sanchez gets hurt, it'll be time to Panik. / Brian Sabean: People really don't know the baseball card or the all around talent lets say, of a (Melky)Cabrera or (Angel)Pagan. And quite frankly, we're gonna have to hit on a (Aubrey)Huff coming back and being the player he was in 2010"
by Grant_ME_MERCY on Dec 28, 2011 2:28 PM PST up reply actions
They tried to compete last year. They failed.
Their window with Bailey, Cahill, Gonzalez, Braden, Suzuki, etc. is closing. They lost their whole outfield among other position players. So they got what they could.
Bailey is entering his FIRST arb year. He may make $3.75 this year, but in two more he may well be making $8-10, and his value will be greatly diminished. By trading him now, the Red Sox can try to sign him to an extension or deal with him however they like. Those years are worth a lot as his cost continues to rise.
Costs go back down, they get more team control back, and they can try to hit that sweet spot again in three or so years when those prospects are coming into their own and still cheap so they can actually afford them. Like I said, this is the only way they can compete until they can expand their revenue stream.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
Wow, Sweeney too? They don’t have an outfield at all now.
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
The outfield was already gone anyway.
Probably part of the reason they gave up Sweeney to get Reddick.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
Yeah, I’m more referring to the hilarious MLB depth chart where Sweeney was listed as the first option in LF, CF, and RF.
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
Ahahahaha.
I missed that one.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
Here we go.
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
Hilariously, they DFA’d Jai Miller a couple of weeks ago. So their OF depth chart is Michael Taylor in right field.
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
Schierholtz for Pennington!
"Baseball is a red-blooded sport for red-blooded men. It's no pink tea, and mollycoddles had better stay out." -Ty Cobb
Mayor of Smug.
Since they’re giving away pitchers, I’ll order one McCarthy.
Cash rules everything around me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar dollar bill y'all
I think he’s probably a fan favorite though. I mean, who’s left? Braden (injured), Suzuki?
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
I’m sure that their fan will find a new favorite.
Cash rules everything around me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar dollar bill y'all
They’re going to be really sad if Jemile Weeks BABIP goes back down to the .300-.320 range.
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
I gave you the chance to make a joke about the A’s having only one fan and you passed it up. Shame on you.
Cash rules everything around me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar dollar bill y'all
Updated depth chart
Ron Washington really Britta'd that Series.
Please follow my Twitter
by Murray, Present on Dec 28, 2011 3:06 PM PST up reply actions
Aw shit
That was supposed to be a giant blank space, so EVERYBODY PRETEND AND LAUGH AT MY JOKE.
Ron Washington really Britta'd that Series.
Please follow my Twitter
by Murray, Present on Dec 28, 2011 3:06 PM PST up reply actions
Updated depth chart
Cash rules everything around me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar dollar bill y'all
I guess Murray just sucks at jokes.
Cash rules everything around me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar dollar bill y'all
but he’s a great hockey player…
Adopted Giant: Eddie I Have It Grant.
TSFGWTWS DESPITE Botchy, not BECAUSE of him.
And he's back in the lineup tonight
I'm a Giants Fan, but I'll always be rooting for Matt Downs
Adopted Son:Dan Burkhart , Future Backup To Buster Posey.
On the subject of the Sharks… did you see this that Randy Hanh tweeted this morning? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zOWGuf3yHU
Adopted Giant: Eddie I Have It Grant.
TSFGWTWS DESPITE Botchy, not BECAUSE of him.
It’s this 3 year old boy and his dad playing PA announcer. For the most part dad says the players numbers and the kid announces the players names. It’s disgustingly cute.
Adopted Giant: Eddie I Have It Grant.
TSFGWTWS DESPITE Botchy, not BECAUSE of him.
I HATE YOU
Ron Washington really Britta'd that Series.
Please follow my Twitter
by Murray, Present on Dec 28, 2011 3:18 PM PST up reply actions
The A's are in gold
Cash rules everything around me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar dollar bill y'all
one article said that lincecum and the giants are also talking one or two years
so lincecum walks in two years. so maybe they ought to give bumgarner a long contract.
Cain is not going to be enough and we really dont have much coming up do we?
So Cain gets a long contract too
Cain is not going to be enough
You should hide right now. Seriously.
I'm a Giants Fan, but I'll always be rooting for Matt Downs
Adopted Son:Dan Burkhart , Future Backup To Buster Posey.
/reaches for pitchfork
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
/checks the torches for freshness
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Dec 28, 2011 2:01 PM PST up reply actions
MLBFakeRumors MLB Fake Rumors
#SFGiants expected to acquire Oakland Coliseum for game-used Brian Wilson T-Shirt.
Is it February 19 yet?
We’re getting fleeced in that deal.
If you're in a war, instead of throwing a hand grenade at the enemy, throw one of those small pumpkins. Maybe it'll make everyone think how stupid war is, and while they are thinking, you can throw a real grenade at them.
by WilliamVanLandingham on Dec 28, 2011 2:16 PM PST up reply actions
and then Beane turns it around and trades it to the Rockies for a bag of dirt
by Dingoes Ate My Baby on Dec 28, 2011 7:56 PM PST up reply actions
LOLOAKLAND
MLBNetworkRadio MLB Network Radio
Andrew Bailey (@AndrewBailey40) tells @MLBNetworkRadio that he has not been told by anyone (agent or Oakland A’s) that he’s been traded.
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 28, 2011 2:20 PM PST reply actions
No
“@AndrewBailey40” is his maiden name.
I have Croix de Candlesticks older than you.
Golden Gate Beer Bars | Tweetybox
by troymccluresf on Dec 28, 2011 2:34 PM PST up reply actions
QUICK, GET JONAH HILL!
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
Does Art Howe know?
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
Oakland also gets Miles Head, 20-year-old 3B, and Raul Alcantera, 19-year-old pitcher.
Miles Head is an awesome name.
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 28, 2011 2:22 PM PST reply actions
WHO GETS THE REST OF MILES?
Carter Jurica!
"Has anyone really been for even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?"
by GrahamCrakalaka on Dec 28, 2011 2:23 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
Rec'd
This is very funny people. That or I have an odd sense of humor.
I'm a Giants Fan, but I'll always be rooting for Matt Downs
Adopted Son:Dan Burkhart , Future Backup To Buster Posey.
I CAN’T BELIEVE THE SOX GAVE MILES HEAD
Bold Prediction: Pablo Sandoval finishes 1st or 2nd in 2012 NL MVP voting. I'm Twittering now (well maybe not literally now): @GoofusMcP
by Goofus on Dec 28, 2011 2:54 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
They remained calm during the entire trade
But sox never lost their head
Even when they were givin’ head
L. Reed didn’tt think of the deal
Though it is clearly well-informed, we find his argument unconvincing; however, the possibility that we are too stupid to comprehend it deserves serious consideration. Germane Literature: The Cutting Edge 13:2, 4/2006
I can see for miles and miles
Bold Prediction: Pablo Sandoval finishes 1st or 2nd in 2012 NL MVP voting. I'm Twittering now (well maybe not literally now): @GoofusMcP
You'd be a great scout
There’s magic in your eyes
Though it is clearly well-informed, we find his argument unconvincing; however, the possibility that we are too stupid to comprehend it deserves serious consideration. Germane Literature: The Cutting Edge 13:2, 4/2006
At this point. I’ve just given up on knowing, caring, or trying to figure out wtf the front office is going to do.
Adopted Giant: Eddie I Have It Grant.
TSFGWTWS DESPITE Botchy, not BECAUSE of him.
THE NEXT VOGELSONG!
Reynolds_Sports Reynolds Sports
RHP Boof Bonser has signed a minor league deal with the San Francisco Giants. Bonser was drafted by the Giants in the 1st round in 2000.
BOOF
I have Croix de Candlesticks older than you.
Golden Gate Beer Bars | Tweetybox
by troymccluresf on Dec 28, 2011 2:37 PM PST up reply actions
That shit will get you DRUNK.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
.
Brian Sabean: "We’re hoping like hell that Burriss can turn into the player we all forecasted him to be" / When it’s time for a change, think Barry Zito's fastball is a changeup. / ESPN: "The Mets swapped Carlos Beltran for Class A right-hander Zack Wheeler in July. Three months later, Baseball America has anointed Wheeler the Mets' top prospect." / Brian Sabean: "We didn't know specifically that we couldn't bring Carlos(Beltran) back" / The next time Freddy Sanchez gets hurt, it'll be time to Panik. / Brian Sabean: People really don't know the baseball card or the all around talent lets say, of a (Melky)Cabrera or (Angel)Pagan. And quite frankly, we're gonna have to hit on a (Aubrey)Huff coming back and being the player he was in 2010"
by Grant_ME_MERCY on Dec 28, 2011 2:41 PM PST up reply actions
/site reverts back to “Waiting for Boof”
Bold Prediction: Pablo Sandoval finishes 1st or 2nd in 2012 NL MVP voting. I'm Twittering now (well maybe not literally now): @GoofusMcP
or
/ " Waiting for Gary"
I'm a Giants Fan, but I'll always be rooting for Matt Downs
Adopted Son:Dan Burkhart , Future Backup To Buster Posey.
MISTRESS TORTURED'S DREAM PREDICTED THIS!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 28, 2011 2:56 PM PST up reply actions
Watch as you dream of Burriss.
Cash rules everything around me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar dollar bill y'all
That would probably be a very different kind of dream, which I would not share with you people.
Just play a Brandon or two, come on!
Please?
(Non-German idiom)
Though it is clearly well-informed, we find his argument unconvincing; however, the possibility that we are too stupid to comprehend it deserves serious consideration. Germane Literature: The Cutting Edge 13:2, 4/2006
Dream summary
“HIT BETTER THAN BRIAN BOCOCK, WORM!!”
/lash
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 28, 2011 3:06 PM PST up reply actions
Sadly the time for the Bumgarner extension has passed
The person to try to lock up now is Posey. His value is depreciated by his injury.
I think if you waved a Longoria extension at him after his career almost ended last season he’d take it.
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
That would make sense now, yeah.
Or it could turn out that the Giants are secret geniuses were just dicking around with Belt to lower his value and then lock him up long-term.
Cash rules everything around me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar dollar bill y'all
My target would still be Sandoval, even though it would be tougher.
Sandoval projects better since his bat is good no matter where you play him.
I am not sure that extending Posey is a wise idea.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
Give me the guy who doesn't have work ethic questions
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
If Sandoval has work ethic questions, that’s news to me.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
...
He got so fat in 2010 that he was awful. And he gained weight back during last season. I think he has his weight issues managed, but I don’t know for sure.
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
He gained weight back in ‘11, yet he didn’t decline (accounting for his injuries).
I’m inclined to think that 2010 was just a shitty year for him personally.
My son, so I'm told. And this stalwart young lad (Hi, free f.p. #14!).
I’m inclined to think that 2010 was just a shitty year for him personally.
I’m not a Psychologist and I don’t play one on TV, but I believe this is the correct answer.
I'm a Giants Fan, but I'll always be rooting for Matt Downs
Adopted Son:Dan Burkhart , Future Backup To Buster Posey.
He also vowed to come back for the start of 2012 even leaner than he was the start of the year before. And even when he was out of shape in 2009, he was still a 4-win player. At his worst, he was pretty much average, and that was when he was getting introduced to strength training and conditioning for the first time in his life. Now, we hear stories about him being on the stationary bike after the game where he hit for the cycle in Colorado.
It’s hard to keep weight off during the regular season. I would not be surprised to learn that it happens to a lot of players. So, I’m not terribly worried about Sandoval going forward.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
He wasn't that out of shape in 2009
2010 was the bad year, and he was a .5 WAR player
Bold Prediction: Pablo Sandoval finishes 1st or 2nd in 2012 NL MVP voting. I'm Twittering now (well maybe not literally now): @GoofusMcP
He was out of shape for a professional athlete.
He had literally never been on a strength training regimen in his life before 2010. And he still hit .330 with 25 bombs.
I don’t think you and I really disagree.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
Don't tell me I'm not disagreeing with you!
Bold Prediction: Pablo Sandoval finishes 1st or 2nd in 2012 NL MVP voting. I'm Twittering now (well maybe not literally now): @GoofusMcP
FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!
/runs away across parking lot, waving arms wildly, trips, falls, rolls around moaning
My son, so I'm told. And this stalwart young lad (Hi, free f.p. #14!).
Break up that fight!
Get a hose! There’s got to be one around here someplace, after all the internet is a series of tubes.
Though it is clearly well-informed, we find his argument unconvincing; however, the possibility that we are too stupid to comprehend it deserves serious consideration. Germane Literature: The Cutting Edge 13:2, 4/2006
Sandoval projects better since his bat is good no matter where you play him.
Panda used to be a catcher, too. But his bat is always worth something, while Posey’s will become worthless if he is moved? This is the kind of thing I scratch my head at.
Just play a Brandon or two, come on!
If Posey, going forward, hits like he did in 2011 and produces to the tune of something like .290/.370/.440, that is INCREDIBLY good for a catcher. It makes him insanely valuable at that position. If you move him to first base, it’s still not pedestrian but it’s much easer to find an .810 OPS at first base than anywhere else on the diamond. At second base it would be somewhat more valuable than at first, but catcher is still the premium value for him.
Sandoval, on the other hand, is playing third base and hitting .310/.360/.500. Both players are somewhat likely to move to first base at some point, but Sandoval’s bat is significantly better.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
I really hate that Sandoval will probably get moved to first base just because he’s fat. He’s a genuinely fantastic third baseman now.
Cash rules everything around me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar dollar bill y'all
Why would he get moved?
If there’s anything this team does not need, it’s another 1B.
Just play a Brandon or two, come on!
There’s been talk about it.
Cash rules everything around me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar dollar bill y'all
I can’t remember whether it was the beat writers or the Giants brass. It’s nothing concrete, but the fact that it’s even been mentioned is worrying.
Cash rules everything around me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar dollar bill y'all
I think it was more speculation prior to his awesome 2011 at 3B
Bold Prediction: Pablo Sandoval finishes 1st or 2nd in 2012 NL MVP voting. I'm Twittering now (well maybe not literally now): @GoofusMcP
Bochy was talking about trying him at first in Taiwan, too.
Cash rules everything around me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar dollar bill y'all
yeah but he also played left field in Taiwan
Adopted Giant: Eddie I Have It Grant.
TSFGWTWS DESPITE Botchy, not BECAUSE of him.
Yeah, that was just for funsies.
I mean, they swept the five game series.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
Yeah, that’s just like how Mariano Rivera wants to play center field once. The Yankees won’t let him do that because the Yankees are dicks.
Cash rules everything around me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar dollar bill y'all
Is that Rivera at 2B?
Bold Prediction: Pablo Sandoval finishes 1st or 2nd in 2012 NL MVP voting. I'm Twittering now (well maybe not literally now): @GoofusMcP
Posada
"Baseball is a red-blooded sport for red-blooded men. It's no pink tea, and mollycoddles had better stay out." -Ty Cobb
Mayor of Smug.
Is that Posada?
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
I’m surprised you guys don’t remember this. It happened last season.
"Baseball is a red-blooded sport for red-blooded men. It's no pink tea, and mollycoddles had better stay out." -Ty Cobb
Mayor of Smug.
A's @ Yankees? Meh.
I have Croix de Candlesticks older than you.
Golden Gate Beer Bars | Tweetybox
by troymccluresf on Dec 28, 2011 3:16 PM PST up reply actions
Isn't it Swisher at first, too?
I love how he hits the deck.
This was probably the four GS game, looking at the score.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
Here
http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/NYA/NYA201108250.shtml
Only three grand slams, though.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
Swisher played first pretty often for the A’s, right?
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
It's not meant as a rag on Swisher
Just that is was one of those extremely goofy and charming blowouts.
As goofy and charming as the Yankees can ever manage to be, anyway.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
yes
Year Age Tm Pos
2004 23 OAK 7/93D8
2005 24 OAK *93
2006 25 OAK 37/89
2007 26 OAK 893/D
2008 27 CHW 3879
2009 28 NYY *93/7D1
2010 29 NYY *9D/38
2011 30 NYY *93/D
Cash rules everything around me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar dollar bill y'all
I vaguely do, which is why I asked!
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
suuuuuuuuuuuuuuure
"Baseball is a red-blooded sport for red-blooded men. It's no pink tea, and mollycoddles had better stay out." -Ty Cobb
Mayor of Smug.
Mr. Mayor, I will not stand for these insinuations!
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
Nah.
If he remains at least competent defensively, I have to imagine the Giants will try to keep him on the left side of the infield. He really changed some minds with his turnaround in 2011.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
Pablo’s a much better hitter than Buster. Buster is a really good hitter for a catcher, but Pablo is a really good hitter, period.
Cash rules everything around me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar dollar bill y'all
Or just read this for the TL;DR version of my reply.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
Exactly.
The positional thing in Buster’s case really isn’t that compelling.
Just play a Brandon or two, come on!
It really is
Buster’s hitting at 1b is not that great for the position.
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
It’s way better than Huff’s! And I get the concept, I just don’t think it’s that compelling, given the nature of the team right now and who they have coming down the pipe. If Buster needs to move, Hector Sanchez hits amazingly well for a catcher.
Just play a Brandon or two, come on!
If Buster is moved it should be to 3b in my opnion
I don’t think he should be moved off catcher unless we’re keeping him after he hits Free Agency.
And we have Pablo/Belt who should be manning 1b for this team.
Moving Buster to 1b is silly.
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
3B or 2B is his best shot at long-term productivity if catching gets to be too much for him.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
A corner outfield spot might also work, although the same caveats about positional scarcity apply there.
Cash rules everything around me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar dollar bill y'all
I think buster is too slow to play any OF position
Bold Prediction: Pablo Sandoval finishes 1st or 2nd in 2012 NL MVP voting. I'm Twittering now (well maybe not literally now): @GoofusMcP
Yep. He has junk in his trunk.
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 28, 2011 3:01 PM PST up reply actions
He’s certainly no Eli Whiteside.
Cash rules everything around me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar dollar bill y'all
People gave Bochy a lot of grief...
…but since that game, I’ve made a concerted effort to watch both Posey and Whiteside run and have learned two things:
- Posey is really slow
- Whiteside is actually pretty damn fast. He kinda reminds me of a tight end watching him run; his acceleration is nothing special, but his top speed is pretty good, not just for a catcher.
I’d say Whiteside is faster than Posey, Huff, Stewart & F. Sanchez…maybe faster than Fontenot, too.
Bold Prediction: Pablo Sandoval finishes 1st or 2nd in 2012 NL MVP voting. I'm Twittering now (well maybe not literally now): @GoofusMcP
Whiteside is fairly lean for a catcher.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
Yeah, more tall than lean
He’s listed at 6’2" and 220. If you smushed him down to 5’10" and 220, he’d look more like a catcher.
I stood next to him once on the field. He’s a pretty big dude. I don’t think the 6’2" is cheating him up
Bold Prediction: Pablo Sandoval finishes 1st or 2nd in 2012 NL MVP voting. I'm Twittering now (well maybe not literally now): @GoofusMcP
No one argued that Whiteside wasnt faster than Posey
People thought it was ridiculous because the likelihood that the difference in speed was going to be the difference in the game was ridiculous as opposed to potential future ABs. Remember he pinch ran for him at 1b.
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
People mocked the idea that Whiteside was a noticeable upgrade over Posey as a baserunner. Not you maybe, but there were people. Of course, I base this on having done zero investigation.
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Dec 28, 2011 3:52 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah.
1B and LF don’t make much of a difference, offense wise. His arm could be put to good use in RF, but I imagine the same would be true at 3B.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
Panda is a great 3rd baseman.
You guys are just messing with me, right?
Just play a Brandon or two, come on!
Pablo is a good 3b RIGHT NOW
He has had one great defensive season at 3b. Anointing him the next Scott Rolen is crazy.
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
Read what I said
I don’t think Buster should be moved off catcher until FA if we sign him. That’s 4 years away. We’ll see if we still even have Pablo Sandoval by that point and we’ll have a better idea of if Pablo’s defense last year was for real.
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
Let’s see how he does behind the plate in 2012 before we decide how long he can catch.
Just play a Brandon or two, come on!
Buster is an awesome hitting catcher
Buster had a .368 wOBA in 2010.
That would be good for 11th among 1b last year with at least 300 ABs. Buster would have to maintain that level of production to merely be the 10th best 1b in baseball. Tied with Todd Helton and Lucas Duda.
His wOBA in 2011 (SSS of course) was .338 good for 24th among 1b
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
Defense stays pretty steady over time. Defensive statistics don’t, but that’s because they’re not accurate enough. Sandoval looks really good at third base; there’s no reason for that not to continue.
Cash rules everything around me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar dollar bill y'all
I think it was Wendy had a great article
about how Sandoval was arguably the best defensive 3B in the sport last year. The dude is an absolute freak.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
Defense stays pretty steady over time. Defensive statistics don’t, but that’s because they’re not accurate enough.
How could you possibly know that?
"Baseball is a red-blooded sport for red-blooded men. It's no pink tea, and mollycoddles had better stay out." -Ty Cobb
Mayor of Smug.
My eyes. They’re the only way to judge defense other than defensive statistics.
Cash rules everything around me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar dollar bill y'all
Your eyes should have told you that Pablo's defense was not good in 2009/2010 and awesome last year
How is that steady defensive performance?
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
He’s improved, and that can be attributed to better conditioning and more practice at third base. Remember that 2006 was the last time he played there in the minors. He’s not at the point of his career where we would expect his defense to decline.
Cash rules everything around me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar dollar bill y'all
Are you kidding? He was asked to learn 3B, basically at the major league level, and has done it well. His range sucked last year because he was 40-50 pounds heavier, but he has improved steadily and has become very accomplished.
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Dec 28, 2011 3:14 PM PST up reply actions
If you guys are willing to project years of awesome defense based on one year
Go ahead. I’m not saying that he can’t maintain last years level. But to declare him a perennial gold glover based on one season is downright silly.
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
Except I’m not basing it on one year. I’m basing it on three years and steady development at a new position.
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Dec 28, 2011 3:17 PM PST up reply actions
Steady development?
His defense was worse in 2010 than 2009. Of course his conditioning was an issue. But issues are issues. That’s not steady development
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
Yep. He’s looked more like someone who is comfortable at third each year, including the one that his fat hampered his range.
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Dec 28, 2011 3:45 PM PST up reply actions
How do u measure "comfort?"
I’d love to know.
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
That’s a lie and you know it. And if it was measurable, I wouldn’t have to use the eye test.
In any case, it’s things like being in the right spot, throwing to the right base, reacting to balls hit in front of you, that sort of thing. I’ve been interested since people poo-pooed the idea that he would ever be able to be a major league third baseman (pre 2009) and I thought he could be very acceptable if he managed his conditioning.
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Dec 28, 2011 3:57 PM PST up reply actions
I don’t know if anyone’s going that far.
I may be mistaken, but I don’t think defense is one of those areas where you have flukey anomalous seasons of stellar performance: you really do have to have those abilities.
My son, so I'm told. And this stalwart young lad (Hi, free f.p. #14!).
Derek Jeter would disagree with you.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
This is the exact example I was going to use
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
Still, there would at least appear to be somewhat of a correlation between Sandoval’s conditioning and his defense. More experience doesn’t hurt, either.
We will of course have to wait to see how true it is, but I would think the smart money is on him being, at the very least, average at 3B going forward.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
Im willing to project average
I’m not willing to say last year’s level of defense is what we’re going to see going forward that’s all.
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
I would hazard to say that last year is not a fluke, but it is also probably his ceiling. He’s not likely to get much more rangy, and he’s always had great reflexes. If there are places he can improve, it’s first step and accuracy to first base, which are not exactly easy to train for in the offseason.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
I never thought I’d say this, but I could use some GiantPain about now.
"Baseball is a red-blooded sport for red-blooded men. It's no pink tea, and mollycoddles had better stay out." -Ty Cobb
Mayor of Smug.
Yes, he does.
He is also correct in believing that it is far outweighed by offense.
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
It’s no secret that the eye test is still one of the best ways to evaluate defense.
Cash rules everything around me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar dollar bill y'all
FREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWISFREDLEWIS
"Baseball is a red-blooded sport for red-blooded men. It's no pink tea, and mollycoddles had better stay out." -Ty Cobb
Mayor of Smug.
Go stand in the corner.
I have Croix de Candlesticks older than you.
Golden Gate Beer Bars | Tweetybox
by troymccluresf on Dec 28, 2011 3:27 PM PST up reply actions
Heh. This is funny since Fred Lewis was hated most for having good enough range to get to more balls than others, and then mishandling several of them. Standing in one spot is the least apt descriptor of his defense I can think of.
Once more, coming to you by proxy.
by howtheyscored on Dec 29, 2011 11:39 AM PST up reply actions
True, my intent was that there wasn’t much of a difference.
by GuyWhiteyCorngood on Dec 29, 2011 11:44 AM PST up reply actions
EL PERSON CAN'T EVEN CLAIM RIBEYES!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 28, 2011 3:16 PM PST up reply actions
Pablo's 3b defense was not very good in 2009 and 2010
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
Pablo is too short for first base.
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Dec 28, 2011 3:02 PM PST up reply actions
Sanchez is far from a top prospect, unfortunately.
Cash rules everything around me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar dollar bill y'all
He played pretty well in Venezuela this year, right?
And Timmy preferred him to Whiteside. I remain hopeful.
Just play a Brandon or two, come on!
He’s not in the league of a Mesoraco or Grandal.
Cash rules everything around me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar dollar bill y'all
These sound dirty out of context.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
Well, I’m absolutely sure you know more than I do about it. But I like to believe that all Giants’ prospects are underrated.
Just play a Brandon or two, come on!
I like to think that they’re not that good so that I’m pleasantly surprised when a Sandoval comes out of nowhere.
Cash rules everything around me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar dollar bill y'all
LOL SABEAN!
JonHeymanCBS Jon Heyman
rookie redsox gm ben cherington is making the most out of a situation where ownership is acting like they have no $
Yeah
But he’s selling the farm.
Carter Jurica!
"Has anyone really been for even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?"
by GrahamCrakalaka on Dec 28, 2011 2:49 PM PST up reply actions
Job opportunity:
SFGiants #DreamJob Alert – @MLBFanCave is back in 2012, looking for lucky fans now – Why not a #SFGiants fan atmlb.com/vsvvRN
Adopted Giant: Eddie I Have It Grant.
TSFGWTWS DESPITE Botchy, not BECAUSE of him.
I must be getting old, because I can’t make heads or tails of most of that
proud son of greatgiantfan; b. Apr 29, 2009, d. Jul 30, 2010.
The MLB Fan Cave
Is a psychological torture device in which two fans sit in what used to be the East Village Tower Records and watch every single baseball game in a season as passers-by gawk through the windows.
Think of the human zoo in Planet of the Apes crossed with the sensory bombardment scene in Clockwork Orange.
It’s right by my work.
11 01 10
Veni Vidi Vixi
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Dec 29, 2011 9:10 AM PST up reply actions
Welcome, Willie, and congratulations on getting this job! I’d like to introduce you to your fan cave roommate Fartybutt McSmellypants. You guys will be spending a lot of time together in cramped quarters this season so I hope you can get along.
Proud parent of SD-born Shane Loux.
If Cain is with us, who can be against us? - atxgiantsfan
Fartybutt McSmellypants
LOL GRANT
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 29, 2011 9:18 AM PST up reply actions
hankschulman I say both get done. RT @jp_on_rye: do you have the sense that they’ll get done eventually? better chance with one over the other?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
Hank is referring to the postgame spreads for himself and Baggs.
Cash rules everything around me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar dollar bill y'all
Which feature ribeyes! And mustard and horseradish.
Though it is clearly well-informed, we find his argument unconvincing; however, the possibility that we are too stupid to comprehend it deserves serious consideration. Germane Literature: The Cutting Edge 13:2, 4/2006
If he’s right, the coming year will find me to be a very forgiving man.
My son, so I'm told. And this stalwart young lad (Hi, free f.p. #14!).
Was this asking about deals for Timmy and Matt?
Bold Prediction: Pablo Sandoval finishes 1st or 2nd in 2012 NL MVP voting. I'm Twittering now (well maybe not literally now): @GoofusMcP
yes
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
In the preceding tweet, he predicts Cain in ST, Timmy by the arb deadline.
My son, so I'm told. And this stalwart young lad (Hi, free f.p. #14!).
Um… unclear, but it sounds like he’s thinking long-term.
My son, so I'm told. And this stalwart young lad (Hi, free f.p. #14!).
Henry Schulman
There’s no hurry on Lincecum/Cain extensions. I suspect Timmy talks will go to the wire before arb hearing. Cain in spring training.
Fla-Giant would disagree with Hank about Cain, but it’s a fairly reasonable guess in general, if somewhat bullish.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
he could be completely full of shit
but he’s probably closer to the whole thing than Jon Heyman, so I’m going to take heart in what he says
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
Cain in spring training.
Schulman might be thinking this:
each of Cain’s past two extensions were inked in March, before Opening Day.
Brian Sabean: "We’re hoping like hell that Burriss can turn into the player we all forecasted him to be" / When it’s time for a change, think Barry Zito's fastball is a changeup. / ESPN: "The Mets swapped Carlos Beltran for Class A right-hander Zack Wheeler in July. Three months later, Baseball America has anointed Wheeler the Mets' top prospect." / Brian Sabean: "We didn't know specifically that we couldn't bring Carlos(Beltran) back" / The next time Freddy Sanchez gets hurt, it'll be time to Panik. / Brian Sabean: People really don't know the baseball card or the all around talent lets say, of a (Melky)Cabrera or (Angel)Pagan. And quite frankly, we're gonna have to hit on a (Aubrey)Huff coming back and being the player he was in 2010"
by Grant_ME_MERCY on Dec 28, 2011 4:06 PM PST up reply actions
Who’s this jp_on_rye chap?
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
don't know him
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
that's usually the pronunciation i go with these days
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
o m g
And just a note on Jeff Bagwell: Rumors about possible steroid use don’t bother me. I just think he’s a very good player, but not of Hall of Fame caliber. His numbers are very similar to Steve Garvey — Bags .297 batting average to .294 for the Garv, 2,314 hits to 2,599, 449 homers to 272, 1,529 RBIs to 1,308 . But Garvey had two NL Championship Series MVPs, an NL MVP, an All-Star MVP, the longest consecutive game playing streak in NL history (1,207), one of the highest fielding percentages as a first baseman (.996) and an errorless season (1984). Garvey also played on five NL pennant winners and a World Series winner in ’81 with the Dodgers. Bagwell did almost none of this with the Astros. And Garvey didn’t get a sniff from the writers for the HOF.
That’s why I didn’t vote for Bagwell.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
dumb
"Baseball is a red-blooded sport for red-blooded men. It's no pink tea, and mollycoddles had better stay out." -Ty Cobb
Mayor of Smug.
I love this part
His numbers are very similar to Steve Garvey — […] 449 homers to 272
Cash rules everything around me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar dollar bill y'all
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!
Using pennant wins as an arguement…because we all know that Garvey won those single-handedly, right?
Using pennant wins as an arguement…because we all know that Garvey won those single-handedly, right?
Well, he did have those massive forearms. I suppose it’s possible.
I'm a Giants Fan, but I'll always be rooting for Matt Downs
Adopted Son:Dan Burkhart , Future Backup To Buster Posey.
Who the hell is this?
Fielding percentage and an errorless season!
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
Barry Bloom!
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
Garvey: .294/.329/.446 (42.5 fWAR)
Bagwell: .297/.408/.540 (83.9 fWAR)
HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
Imma do a GP on this
Player1 career wRC+ 115
Player2 career wRC+ 149
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Dec 28, 2011 3:58 PM PST up reply actions
I’ll take player 1 with a side of Manny Burriss, please!
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
And an Eckstein garnish.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
With Ketchup ?
Cause we know there’s no mustard on that hot dog.
I'm a Giants Fan, but I'll always be rooting for Matt Downs
Adopted Son:Dan Burkhart , Future Backup To Buster Posey.
LOL
Sam Miller @SamMillerOCR 11m Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
The seriously crazy thing about this bit.ly/ttOdHR is that Barry Bloom voted for Steve Garvey! atmlb.com/vjtfIP
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
Damnit.. STILL LOL
Sam Miller @SamMillerOCR 11m Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
The seriously crazy thing about this bit.ly/ttOdHR is that Barry Bloom voted for Steve Garvey! atmlb.com/vjtfIP
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
Steve Garvey's defense
I remember that he would always take the ball over to first himself, seemingly no matter how far off the bag he was.
Mark DeRosa , he had his moments.
Ernie Banks sucked
never made it to a WS.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
Bonds sucked even more. If he were really one of the 3 greatest players ever, he’d have won a WS.
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
I heard that “logic” the other day. If alex Smith goes to the Superbowl then he’s the best qb ever cuz if you are good you go to the superbowl. I was glad Dan Marino was nowhere around.
Adopted Giant: Eddie I Have It Grant.
TSFGWTWS DESPITE Botchy, not BECAUSE of him.
But
Dan Williams went on to that illustrious hall of fame career!
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
I think there's a good point here
Garvey was a pretty huge star in his day; bigger than Bagwell was in his.
It is the Hall of Fame and if someone as famous as Garvey doesn’t get in, should Bagwell?
Bold Prediction: Pablo Sandoval finishes 1st or 2nd in 2012 NL MVP voting. I'm Twittering now (well maybe not literally now): @GoofusMcP
you're trolling, right?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
Garvey: 116 career OPS+, 35.9 career rWAR
Bagwell: 149 career OPS+, 79.9 career rWAR
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
Also, that argument extrapolates into a lot of other deserving guys not going into the hall because they weren’t “huge” stars like Steve Garvey.
@legaleagle88
Giants Baseball: Why Not?
I thought Nate Schierholtz was cool before it was cool to think Nate Schierholtz was cool.
in any case
in the 90s, when i was growing up, i hardly followed baseball at all, but i knew who the “big players” were and for the Astros I knew who Bagwell was (and Biggio).
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
Me, too. On the other hand, I have no idea who Lee Smith is.
@legaleagle88
Giants Baseball: Why Not?
I thought Nate Schierholtz was cool before it was cool to think Nate Schierholtz was cool.
Lee Smith! I barely watched baseball growing up but I remember him for his time with the Cardinals. He was the all-time saves leader before Rivera/Hoffman came along.
by non sequitur on Dec 28, 2011 3:58 PM PST up reply actions
Therefore proving jponry’s point that fame is totally subjective.
@legaleagle88
Giants Baseball: Why Not?
I thought Nate Schierholtz was cool before it was cool to think Nate Schierholtz was cool.
Actually the case of Lee Smith suggests that a lot of HoF voters *don’t* necessarily value saves so much — to speak to Mr. Brisbee’s clever comparison between Rivera and Edgar Martinez. For a long time Smith was left out and of course he still is. Maybe there’s something Yankee just special Yankee about Rivera Yankee that makes voters Yankee like him and Yankee not Smith.
by non sequitur on Dec 28, 2011 4:11 PM PST up reply actions
I somewhat changed the subject on you, by the way. That’s why I am non sequitur.
by non sequitur on Dec 28, 2011 4:12 PM PST up reply actions
My lawn.
Get off it.
I have Croix de Candlesticks older than you.
Golden Gate Beer Bars | Tweetybox
by troymccluresf on Dec 28, 2011 4:01 PM PST up reply actions
players i remember knowing about in the early 90s
Bonds
Biggio
Bagwell
M Williams
Clemens
Thomas
Griffey
p good list tbh
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
Wade Boggs. I don’t know why I remember him. I too mostly remember players from the A’s and Giants. Oh and that Kirk Gibson guy.
We got one of those Costco boxes of Topps baseball cards, and it seems like 90% of the cards were Wade Boggs or Don Mattingly.
@legaleagle88
Giants Baseball: Why Not?
I thought Nate Schierholtz was cool before it was cool to think Nate Schierholtz was cool.
He was also in an episode of Cheers.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
Rich Aurilia was in an episode of General Hospital.
@legaleagle88
Giants Baseball: Why Not?
I thought Nate Schierholtz was cool before it was cool to think Nate Schierholtz was cool.
players i remember knowing about in the early 90s 70’s…that’s right I said it.
Johnny Bench ( in my top 5 ever favorites)
Willie May
Roberto Clemente
Willie McCovey
Bobby Bonds
Dick Dietz
Juan Marichal
Gaylord Perry
Tito Fuentes
John Montefusco
Chris Speir
Jack Clark
Pete Rose
Joe Morgan
Tony Pérez
Jack Clark
Dave Concepción
Tug McGraw ( lived in my hometown growing up)
Eddie Murray
Willie Stargell
Reggie Jackson
/not a bad list either
I'm a Giants Fan, but I'll always be rooting for Matt Downs
Adopted Son:Dan Burkhart , Future Backup To Buster Posey.
I have heard of every last one of those guys.
@legaleagle88
Giants Baseball: Why Not?
I thought Nate Schierholtz was cool before it was cool to think Nate Schierholtz was cool.
The difference would be that I saw them play.
/Lawn. Please remove yourself.
I'm a Giants Fan, but I'll always be rooting for Matt Downs
Adopted Son:Dan Burkhart , Future Backup To Buster Posey.
Wow, I can’t believe no one has called me out on Willie May, WIllie Mays half brother.
I'm a Giants Fan, but I'll always be rooting for Matt Downs
Adopted Son:Dan Burkhart , Future Backup To Buster Posey.
LOL me.
/Sam Jackson’s gif of “READ THE MF THREAD BEFORE YOU MF POST!”
11 01 10
Veni Vidi Vixi
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Dec 29, 2011 8:39 AM PST up reply actions
Willie May
WhereThere’sAWillieThere’sAMay!
11 01 10
Veni Vidi Vixi
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Dec 29, 2011 8:32 AM PST up reply actions
Saying "who was really more famous" is entirely subjective
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
Feared hitter!
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
Let us bear in mind
That the closest anyone has ever come to being a unanimous first ballot is Tony Gwynn.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
And that’s because there are a bunch of jerks with votes. Ruth didn’t get 100% and neither should [obvious HOF player].
I mean that Tony Gwynn got more votes than Babe Ruth, Willie Mays, or ANY OTHER HALL OF FAMER EVER.
By certain lines of reasoning, you could say that that makes Gwynn the most famous player ever.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
More votes, not a higher percentage, right?
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
I was thinking percentage, but I don’t know how the voting pool has changed so I couldn’t tell you for sure.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
I imagine there are significantly more BBWAA members now than before.
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
Yeah, but the voting for Seaver was only 15 years earlier, Ryan 8 years earlier. George Brett, 8 years earliers. And Ripken retired the same year as Gwynn.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
Oh, I was going off of your Babe Ruth and Willie Mays comment. I imagine that Gwynn was elected 35+ years after those two, right?
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
Gwynn's last year was 2001.
He almost certainly got more votes than Mays and Ruth, but I still don’t have a leg to stand on vis a vis the guys in front of Gwynn.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
I thought it was Tom Seaver.
Cash rules everything around me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar dollar bill y'all
Looks like it.
I thought Gwynn was the most unanimous HoFer. Dunno where that came from. Still, Gwynn is top ten.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
Didn't know they'd renamed it the "Hall of WAR"
Bold Prediction: Pablo Sandoval finishes 1st or 2nd in 2012 NL MVP voting. I'm Twittering now (well maybe not literally now): @GoofusMcP
Well
If people are going to use the steroids argument to exclude players, the fame argument kind of goes out the window.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
This can't be a real argument
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
Yeah, you’d think it would be okay to use statistics to determine the best baseball players.
@legaleagle88
Giants Baseball: Why Not?
I thought Nate Schierholtz was cool before it was cool to think Nate Schierholtz was cool.
I didn't say we can't use stats
But it is called the Hall of Fame, right?
Bold Prediction: Pablo Sandoval finishes 1st or 2nd in 2012 NL MVP voting. I'm Twittering now (well maybe not literally now): @GoofusMcP
I think it's pretty clear that in all sports
the Hall of Fame is meant for the best players, not the “most famous” ones.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
I mean
if Bagwell had played for LA instead of Houston, wouldn’t he probably be more famous?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
I'd argue it's a combination
“best players” can be subjective too. “Best” for a couple of years, or best over a bunch of years?
Bold Prediction: Pablo Sandoval finishes 1st or 2nd in 2012 NL MVP voting. I'm Twittering now (well maybe not literally now): @GoofusMcP
In Bagwell’s case, he put up OPS+ of at least 135 every year from 1991 to 2002. His overall OPS+ for those years was 155.
He had a 3 year peak from ’94 to ’96 of a 177 OPS+
By comparison, Ken Griffey Jr never put up a 177 OPS+ over the course of a full season…
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
Beyond the Box Score talks about this a lot.
The general feeling is that they need to have a peak year or three, in addition to being great for a long time.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
Weighted WAR is a pretty good concept.
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
i think bb-ref's ELOrater
has some stats that are something like peak WAR and prime WAR
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
I’m not sure I buy that a 4.5 WAR season is twice as valuable as a 3.0 WAR season.
Cash rules everything around me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar dollar bill y'all
I’m not saying the implementation is perfect. But it’s a good concept that gets at giving a bonus for “holy shit” years vs. someone like Jamie Moyer or other compilers.
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
I think maybe wins above average would be a better way of expressing that.
Cash rules everything around me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar dollar bill y'all
I agree that it’s a combination, but I don’t think Bagwell should be on the bubble. He’s pretty clearly in IMO.
Is it February 19 yet?
Also, acting like the Killer B’s weren’t famous is pretty much kididng yourself.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
Bagreed.
I have Croix de Candlesticks older than you.
Golden Gate Beer Bars | Tweetybox
by troymccluresf on Dec 28, 2011 4:17 PM PST up reply actions
his bb-ref page
isn’t quite barry bonds level stat porn but it’s up there.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
Jeff Bagwell never made a single error playing RF!
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
pffft neither have I.
Adopted Giant: Eddie I Have It Grant.
TSFGWTWS DESPITE Botchy, not BECAUSE of him.
Clearly, you are at least as good as Steve Garvey.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
Maybe we should ask BSG to mediate this Garvey/Bagwell comparison.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
Yup
I go through this all the time with the Hall of Fame and All-Star selections. I appreciate stats, but think these selections go well beyond that. If all that matters is WAR, then let’s just do BB-ref sort and be done with it.
Bold Prediction: Pablo Sandoval finishes 1st or 2nd in 2012 NL MVP voting. I'm Twittering now (well maybe not literally now): @GoofusMcP
I don't think all that matters is stats
but comparing Bagwell and Garvey and acting like they’re basically the same player statistically but Garvey had all this extra stuff that Bagwell didn’t have is ridiculous. Bagwell blew Garvey away as a player, whether statistically or otherwise.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
So it should be a popularity contest?
Carter Jurica!
"Has anyone really been for even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?"
by GrahamCrakalaka on Dec 28, 2011 4:04 PM PST up reply actions
Well, the all-star game is
Bold Prediction: Pablo Sandoval finishes 1st or 2nd in 2012 NL MVP voting. I'm Twittering now (well maybe not literally now): @GoofusMcP
I know
I hate most of the selections for the ASG. Your point?
Carter Jurica!
"Has anyone really been for even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?"
by GrahamCrakalaka on Dec 28, 2011 4:05 PM PST up reply actions
Why?
It’s who the fans want to see. I always compare it to movie stars. Chris Cooper might be a better actor, but fans want to see Tom Cruise as Ethan Hunt in Mission Impossible.
Bold Prediction: Pablo Sandoval finishes 1st or 2nd in 2012 NL MVP voting. I'm Twittering now (well maybe not literally now): @GoofusMcP
But Mission Impossible doesn’t win Oscars just because it gets the biggest box office. That’s the difference.
"Baseball is a red-blooded sport for red-blooded men. It's no pink tea, and mollycoddles had better stay out." -Ty Cobb
Mayor of Smug.
Perfect.
Carter Jurica!
"Has anyone really been for even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?"
by GrahamCrakalaka on Dec 28, 2011 4:09 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, you just made my point
“star” and “fame” are different than technical performance.
MVP is like an Oscar and should be given to the best. All-Star is popularity contest.
Bold Prediction: Pablo Sandoval finishes 1st or 2nd in 2012 NL MVP voting. I'm Twittering now (well maybe not literally now): @GoofusMcP
The HOF is pretty clearly closer to the Oscars than the All-star game.
"Baseball is a red-blooded sport for red-blooded men. It's no pink tea, and mollycoddles had better stay out." -Ty Cobb
Mayor of Smug.
STOP MAKING MY POINTS BEFORE I CAN!
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
Yeah, I’m not sure when the conversation shifted to the ASG. ASG =/= HOF.
@legaleagle88
Giants Baseball: Why Not?
I thought Nate Schierholtz was cool before it was cool to think Nate Schierholtz was cool.
Exactly
HOF=decided by a small number of people in the biz
Oscars=decided by a small number of people in the biz
All-Star=decided by masses of unwashed humanity
"Baseball is a red-blooded sport for red-blooded men. It's no pink tea, and mollycoddles had better stay out." -Ty Cobb
Mayor of Smug.
I was making the point that both have an element of popularity
unless my understanding of the words “star” and “fame” are off base
Bold Prediction: Pablo Sandoval finishes 1st or 2nd in 2012 NL MVP voting. I'm Twittering now (well maybe not literally now): @GoofusMcP
I think most people are arguing that fame should play a very big part though. Just because Brian Wilson trolls Jim Rome and wears Spandex suits doesn’t make him a better player or more deserving of an honor like being inducted into the HOF. But it certainly makes him more famous.
Carter Jurica!
"Has anyone really been for even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?"
by GrahamCrakalaka on Dec 28, 2011 4:17 PM PST up reply actions
Again a little too literal a reading
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
But the Oscars go to the best Actors
If they went to most famous or popular Shia Lebouf and Lindsay Lohan would have a case of them
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
Hey, good point! ;)
"Baseball is a red-blooded sport for red-blooded men. It's no pink tea, and mollycoddles had better stay out." -Ty Cobb
Mayor of Smug.
An Oscar is more like an MVP
An all-star selection is more like being a box-office hit
Bold Prediction: Pablo Sandoval finishes 1st or 2nd in 2012 NL MVP voting. I'm Twittering now (well maybe not literally now): @GoofusMcP
Well, I think the HoF is more about
finding the Oscar winners than the box office hits.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
I think it's somewhere in between
Bold Prediction: Pablo Sandoval finishes 1st or 2nd in 2012 NL MVP voting. I'm Twittering now (well maybe not literally now): @GoofusMcP
Then why don’t they make the HOF a voting affair like the All-Star game? Why do they leave it up to, what they determine to be at least, the wise experts in the field?
"Baseball is a red-blooded sport for red-blooded men. It's no pink tea, and mollycoddles had better stay out." -Ty Cobb
Mayor of Smug.
Looking at the list of players in it
I would say that the vast majority of those elected were done so because the voters felt they were the best players of their time, not the most famous, necessarily.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
it's also worth mentioning
that for the most part, it really is generally the best players who end up being the most famous.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
Name me one player who got in based in a substantial way on how famous he is?
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
Puckett and perhaps Sutter.
"Baseball is a red-blooded sport for red-blooded men. It's no pink tea, and mollycoddles had better stay out." -Ty Cobb
Mayor of Smug.
Kirby Puckett was really fucking good
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
44.8 Career WAR.
"Baseball is a red-blooded sport for red-blooded men. It's no pink tea, and mollycoddles had better stay out." -Ty Cobb
Mayor of Smug.
Short career though
Gets into the whole longevity vs. peak performance thing
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
Kirby Puckett was really fucking good
This should be repeated
I'm a Giants Fan, but I'll always be rooting for Matt Downs
Adopted Son:Dan Burkhart , Future Backup To Buster Posey.
I dunno
Puckett had 7 career top 10 MVP finishes. It might have been erroneous, but i think he was perceived as being one of the best players in baseball over his career.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
And I have no idea how "famous" Sutter was
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
Well, the “Sutter” thing is more of a “contribution to the sport”, which I lumped in with “famous”.
"Baseball is a red-blooded sport for red-blooded men. It's no pink tea, and mollycoddles had better stay out." -Ty Cobb
Mayor of Smug.
Sutter was seen as the first modern late-inning reliever, or at least made it more of the norm. Always thought he was overrated but people always spoke of him in reverent terms. And like most closers back then, he often threw 3-4 innings
by Dingoes Ate My Baby on Dec 28, 2011 4:27 PM PST up reply actions
I thought Gossage and Fingers preceded Sutter as late-inning relievers
Bold Prediction: Pablo Sandoval finishes 1st or 2nd in 2012 NL MVP voting. I'm Twittering now (well maybe not literally now): @GoofusMcP
Fingers was a closer before there really was a conception of a closer and Gossage was around when Sutter was around but Sutter seemed to be really good for a much longer time (again, I thought he was overrated but he’s got some good numbers)
by Dingoes Ate My Baby on Dec 28, 2011 8:05 PM PST up reply actions
Kurt Flood for HOF!
Also, holy shit. Jackie Robinson’s wOBA in 1949 was .455.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
i don't think
… that in the original conception of the “Hall of Fame”, that “fame” was so distinct from “quality” as we seem to be taking it now. The meanings of these terms change; these days everything is cast within the terms of the statheads vs. non-statheads debate, so that fame seems like something subjective and independent of the player’s “objective” skill.
A separate thought that occurred to me is that the subjective concept of “fame” can in some cases get institutionalized into an objective stat. Like maybe saves. Or pitcher wins. Whatever. I’m in a pretty po-mo mood right now.
by non sequitur on Dec 28, 2011 4:34 PM PST up reply actions
Why?
It’s who the fans want to see.
Because, stupidly, this time it counts.
I have Croix de Candlesticks older than you.
Golden Gate Beer Bars | Tweetybox
by troymccluresf on Dec 28, 2011 4:12 PM PST up reply actions
The author isn’t relying on non-statistical reasons. He is relying on BAD statistical reasons, like fielding percentage.
"Baseball is a red-blooded sport for red-blooded men. It's no pink tea, and mollycoddles had better stay out." -Ty Cobb
Mayor of Smug.
My favorite thing ever is when old school writers say, “I don’t believe in stats” and then use a bunch of (poorly chosen, cherrypicked) stats to support their assertion.
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
Pretty much, yeah.
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
.
Brian Sabean: "We’re hoping like hell that Burriss can turn into the player we all forecasted him to be" / When it’s time for a change, think Barry Zito's fastball is a changeup. / ESPN: "The Mets swapped Carlos Beltran for Class A right-hander Zack Wheeler in July. Three months later, Baseball America has anointed Wheeler the Mets' top prospect." / Brian Sabean: "We didn't know specifically that we couldn't bring Carlos(Beltran) back" / The next time Freddy Sanchez gets hurt, it'll be time to Panik. / Brian Sabean: People really don't know the baseball card or the all around talent lets say, of a (Melky)Cabrera or (Angel)Pagan. And quite frankly, we're gonna have to hit on a (Aubrey)Huff coming back and being the player he was in 2010"
by Grant_ME_MERCY on Dec 28, 2011 4:35 PM PST up reply actions
Stats don't matter
But using something like “fame” which has absolutely nothing to do with one’s ability to play baseball is completely ridiculous
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
*
My headline is sposed to say stats aren’t all the matters
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
Really? So they named it the Hall of Fame for shits and giggles?
Bold Prediction: Pablo Sandoval finishes 1st or 2nd in 2012 NL MVP voting. I'm Twittering now (well maybe not literally now): @GoofusMcP
The HoF's mission statement says
it is to “honor excellence within the game”. Not honor whoever was the most famous.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
That’s pretty straightforward.
AND it allows for outstanding persons to get a look even if they’re not statistically at the top.
My son, so I'm told. And this stalwart young lad (Hi, free f.p. #14!).
I think you're reading the title a little too literally
The Oscars don’t go to the best actors and directors named Oscar
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
by DFARowand on Dec 28, 2011 4:12 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I get the argument but I think that the fame should be one deciding factor and not encompassing. I mean Bagwell was pretty darn good for a very long period of time which is one of my two criteria to get in (the other is insane good for 5 years).
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
ok you trolling
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
What is wrong with subjectivity in regard to the Hall of Fame? I don’t mind Garvey getting consideration based on ‘fame’, I just mind people trying to say Bagwell was a similar player.
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Dec 28, 2011 4:00 PM PST up reply actions
I was responding to Goofus saying Bagwell isn’t deserving because he wasn’t as famous as Garvey…
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
I know. I don’t think essentially meaningless accolades need to be scientifically verifiable. I actually think Eddie Gaedel should have a tiny little plaque in the hall.
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Dec 28, 2011 4:04 PM PST up reply actions
I'm fairly certain that something related to Gaedel is in the Hall
but the actual players elected to it are meant to be the best of the best.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
There ought to be some exceptions
I think Curt Flood should be in the Hall of Fame, although his production wouldn’t really warrant it.
Cash rules everything around me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar dollar bill y'all
i agree w/ that
but I’d say his overall contribution to the game was pretty huge, maybe larger than any player in history.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
Logan Morrison is a twitter pioneer so I think he's definitely getting in
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
Perhaps I should be clear: I think Bagwell is HOF worthy (I actually think that if Lance Berkman wasn’t one of them, it would be cool for the Killer B’s to go in as a group). I also do not think Garvey is HOF material, but I do understand how he looms large (perhaps larger than warranted) to Giants fans of a certain age.
What I have a problem with is the insistence that there is a ‘right’ answer to the question of who belongs, that the answer is somehow verifiable mathematically, and that I have to accept whatever statistical test is deemed proper for Hall of Fame voting. Glory isn’t rational. I reserve the right to take ridiculous things into consideration (this goes for all meaningless accolades, including the MVP and CYA)
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Dec 28, 2011 4:42 PM PST up reply actions
And I think that’s why the average fan doesn’t get a vote. The HOF is left to, what baseball has decided to be, the wisest elder statesmen of the sport (even if that is silly to a lot of us).
"Baseball is a red-blooded sport for red-blooded men. It's no pink tea, and mollycoddles had better stay out." -Ty Cobb
Mayor of Smug.
I really think that the whole amorphorous non-baseball thing
is a way for writers to exclude people they don’t care for without having to cite a reason.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
This is 100% correct
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 28, 2011 7:09 PM PST up reply actions
Yah but see the Hall of Fame isn't for you
It’s for the players who deserve it. And I promise it means more to the players than you. And deserving players aren’t getting in because of ridiculous bullshit
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
that’s why there’s a veteran’s committee…wait.. or is that football?
Adopted Giant: Eddie I Have It Grant.
TSFGWTWS DESPITE Botchy, not BECAUSE of him.
Baseball has one.
they just put Ron Santos in like two weeks after he died.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
Sure
but unless and until Pete Rose in in the HoF, it’s more of a club than a true honoring shrine.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
Watch some acceptance speeches
And then tell me that the players feel the same way
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
Of course they are honored, and of course they are proud to be in that fraternity, but I promise you that Joe Morgan feels differently about the qualifications than you do.
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Dec 28, 2011 4:49 PM PST up reply actions
I'm just going to leave this here.
Augusta National Golf Club has about 300 members at any given time. Membership is strictly by invitation; there is no application process.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
golf sux
"Baseball is a red-blooded sport for red-blooded men. It's no pink tea, and mollycoddles had better stay out." -Ty Cobb
Mayor of Smug.
Fell free to take it with you.
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Dec 28, 2011 4:51 PM PST up reply actions
You realize I'm agreeing with you, right?
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
He doesn't
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
Don’t speak for me.
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Dec 28, 2011 4:56 PM PST up reply actions
It’s for the fans.
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Dec 28, 2011 4:47 PM PST up reply actions
Then do you think that the fans should decide who is in the hall?
"Baseball is a red-blooded sport for red-blooded men. It's no pink tea, and mollycoddles had better stay out." -Ty Cobb
Mayor of Smug.
No.
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Dec 28, 2011 4:50 PM PST up reply actions
How can you rationally believe that?
It’s a validation for the very best in their profession.
It’s about the players.
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
Yes, they sell the tickets to players.
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Dec 28, 2011 4:51 PM PST up reply actions
But “Employee of the Month” at your local McDonalds is not for the customers, it’s for the employees.
"Baseball is a red-blooded sport for red-blooded men. It's no pink tea, and mollycoddles had better stay out." -Ty Cobb
Mayor of Smug.
How do you know my local McDonalds gives out an employee of the month?
Stalker.
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
/watches you through binoculars as he slowly chews a Big Mac
"Baseball is a red-blooded sport for red-blooded men. It's no pink tea, and mollycoddles had better stay out." -Ty Cobb
Mayor of Smug.
Wait, which one of us is eating the Big Mac?
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
I’d say me, but my smug cred would be at stake.
"Baseball is a red-blooded sport for red-blooded men. It's no pink tea, and mollycoddles had better stay out." -Ty Cobb
Mayor of Smug.
But
But "Employee of the Month" at your local McDonalds is not for the customers, it’s for the employees.
Then why is the sign out where customers can see it instead of the employee break room?
It’s for both
Bold Prediction: Pablo Sandoval finishes 1st or 2nd in 2012 NL MVP voting. I'm Twittering now (well maybe not literally now): @GoofusMcP
It's about recognition for the employee
Just like the HOF
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
Honestly
I doubt many “employees of the month” care that much if the award does not come with some financial bonus.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
People only care about awards cuz of money
Got it.
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
Wow is that an overstatement.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
Why would they sell tickets to the people being inducted?
That doesn’t even make sense.
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
I agree with this
Fans are the ones also visiting the HoF.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
Fan arrogance disgusts me
You think everything is about you and completely ignore how baseball is these guys lives and they’ve worked so hard to get where they are.
Can’t we, as fans, step back and let a guy have something without making it about us?
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
I’ll admit to not having really paid much attention to this whole subthread, but this comment is seriously ridiculous out of context.
Cash rules everything around me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar dollar bill y'all
Saying that the HOF
The ultimate validation for a player is about the fans is the definition of fan arrogance.
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
Your arrogance, on the other hand, is very refreshing.
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Dec 28, 2011 4:59 PM PST up reply actions
Personal attacks
Last vestiges of a failed argument
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
Then I should be very proud
for be victorious over you on some many arguments.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
Wow, that is a mangled sentence.
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
yeah
I got too excited…totally blew the delivery.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
TW...
aw, shucks
Don't think he can cut it in the bigs? Brock Bond will be the bigger man and walk walk walk away.
Nah
I’ve only ever attacked your failed ability to use logic. Never attacked any “trait” I perceive you to have. Trust me you would know the difference if I ever did it.
I also think you sometimes you take opinions just for the sake of arguing. And I take issue with that
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
This is very well said
Bold Prediction: Pablo Sandoval finishes 1st or 2nd in 2012 NL MVP voting. I'm Twittering now (well maybe not literally now): @GoofusMcP
No, Garvey loomed large everywhere, even places outside of here. He was the 1B and one of the biggest stars of a very good Dodger team that got to the Series 3 times in 4 years, winning one of them. Then there was all that “Mr. Clean” or whatever image he had going with him that turned out to be a joke. Anyways, I think Garvey deserves to be in there because of his stature (yep, fame). People knew who he was and he put up good enough numbers to be considered- he was one of that era’s biggest stars and that’s something that should be weighed
by Dingoes Ate My Baby on Dec 28, 2011 8:10 PM PST up reply actions
I don't know if a career .329 OBP
is really enough to sell me on him. I mean… he’s pretty much Freddy Sanchez with some pop and durability.
Also, look at Josh Hamilton, or Nelson Cruz. Notable guys on multiple time world series contenders… does that make them Hall of Fame caliber? Does it make David Ortiz Hall of Fame Worthy?
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
Did u just use fame as a qualification for making the HOF?
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
Interestingly
He did vote for
Barry Larkin, Edgar Martinez, Fred McGriff, Mark McGwire, Jack Morris, Rafael Palmeiro, Tim Raines, Lee Smith and Alan Trammell.
McGriff, Lee Smith, and Trammell are all sold members of the Hall of Very Good.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
Trammell is a HoFer
But it is weird that he’d vote yes for Trammell and no for Bagwell
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
Huh
I mean, that’s actually a pretty decent ballot other than thinking Bagwell is a similar player to Garvey.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
Morris. Yech.
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
Oops, I totally glossed over Morris, haha
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
Most simple explanation:
He doesn’t know what the fuck he’s doing.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
Occam’s Razor!
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
I see you’ve been paying attention. ;)
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
Now
with 7 blades
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
I'm just talking about using his criteria
Trammell: .285, 185 Hrs, and 1003 RBIs
59.4 oWAR in 20 seasons and a plus defender.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
You're refusal to just use WAR is so so so funnny
59.4 oWAR in 20 seasons and a plus defender.
Lulz
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
Okay
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
OT: ESPN F's up
Oh dear. ESPN is catching some big shit from hockey fans. Apparently ESPN does some end of the year / year in review deal and in their “in memoriam” segment they failed to mention a single hockey player……. not even a mention of Lokomotiv. (Russian team whose plane crashed.)
http://deadspin.com/5871347/as-far-as-espn-is-concerned-not-a-single-hockey-player-died-this-year
Adopted Giant: Eddie I Have It Grant.
TSFGWTWS DESPITE Botchy, not BECAUSE of him.
They don’t show hockey on ESPN, so it doesn’t exist, right?
Cash rules everything around me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar dollar bill y'all
Coming up next: all 26 dunks by the Heat four days ago.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
Crosby being sick again
for me this might be the end of hockey
by orange velvet on Dec 28, 2011 3:55 PM PST up reply actions
Anyone expecting any kind of integrity from ESPN is looking in the wrong place
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
JOHN ROCKER WAS FAMOUS! JOHN ROCKER FOR HOF
"Baseball is a red-blooded sport for red-blooded men. It's no pink tea, and mollycoddles had better stay out." -Ty Cobb
Mayor of Smug.
by rotorueter on Dec 28, 2011 4:02 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
JOHN BOWKER
DUDE COULD INSPIRE SOME HEATED ARGUMENTS
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
Nah
he was more infamous so he deserves to be in the Hall of Infamy.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
Ruben Rivera.
First ballot.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
Will Ferrell played in a minor league baseball game once
He’s famous! Put him in!
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
Michael Jordan!
"Baseball is a red-blooded sport for red-blooded men. It's no pink tea, and mollycoddles had better stay out." -Ty Cobb
Mayor of Smug.
Charlie Sheen played a famous baseball player in a movie
PUT HIM IN!
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
Well...
Sylvester Stallone is in the Boxing HoF…
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
Wow, you guys seem especially snarky today.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Dec 28, 2011 4:42 PM PST up reply actions
We got fleeced big time
TrippingOlney Not Buster Olney
OAKLAND HAS TRADED THEIR FAN BASE TO SAN FRANCISCO FOR A BAG OF WEED TO BE NAMED LATER.
I’m imagining the self-loathing that A’s fans would have if this happened.
Cash rules everything around me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar dollar bill y'all
We'd still have more weed.
I have Croix de Candlesticks older than you.
Golden Gate Beer Bars | Tweetybox
by troymccluresf on Dec 28, 2011 4:25 PM PST up reply actions
There is that
I'm a Giants Fan, but I'll always be rooting for Matt Downs
Adopted Son:Dan Burkhart , Future Backup To Buster Posey.
8 NIners selected to Pro Bowl roster
Eric Branch
One notable omission was rookie linebacker Aldon Smith (14 sacks), who is one sack from breaking the NFL’s record for sacks by a rookie; he ranks fifth in the NFL in the category.
Aldon Smith on not making Pro Bowl: “I was a little disappointed, but this is not my last year playing football.”
Brian Sabean: "We’re hoping like hell that Burriss can turn into the player we all forecasted him to be" / When it’s time for a change, think Barry Zito's fastball is a changeup. / ESPN: "The Mets swapped Carlos Beltran for Class A right-hander Zack Wheeler in July. Three months later, Baseball America has anointed Wheeler the Mets' top prospect." / Brian Sabean: "We didn't know specifically that we couldn't bring Carlos(Beltran) back" / The next time Freddy Sanchez gets hurt, it'll be time to Panik. / Brian Sabean: People really don't know the baseball card or the all around talent lets say, of a (Melky)Cabrera or (Angel)Pagan. And quite frankly, we're gonna have to hit on a (Aubrey)Huff coming back and being the player he was in 2010"
BREAKING
They already announced it yesterday
If you're watching a blowout, you can pass the time by counting the double teapots.
Samurai Champloo > Macross
by doubleteapot on Dec 28, 2011 4:34 PM PST up reply actions
Aldon Smith was just quoted by Eric Branch a couple of minutes ago on Twitter. I was just adding some context.
Brian Sabean: "We’re hoping like hell that Burriss can turn into the player we all forecasted him to be" / When it’s time for a change, think Barry Zito's fastball is a changeup. / ESPN: "The Mets swapped Carlos Beltran for Class A right-hander Zack Wheeler in July. Three months later, Baseball America has anointed Wheeler the Mets' top prospect." / Brian Sabean: "We didn't know specifically that we couldn't bring Carlos(Beltran) back" / The next time Freddy Sanchez gets hurt, it'll be time to Panik. / Brian Sabean: People really don't know the baseball card or the all around talent lets say, of a (Melky)Cabrera or (Angel)Pagan. And quite frankly, we're gonna have to hit on a (Aubrey)Huff coming back and being the player he was in 2010"
by Grant_ME_MERCY on Dec 28, 2011 4:36 PM PST up reply actions
Aldon might be the most likable Niner
at least he would be if not for Patrick Willis and Frank Gore.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
Him running off the field to the bench after that sack the Rams game
is probably my favorite moment of the season.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
Remember when he ran down that wide receiver?
If you're watching a blowout, you can pass the time by counting the double teapots.
Samurai Champloo > Macross
by doubleteapot on Dec 28, 2011 4:41 PM PST up reply actions
No no, he gave that ball to the other team.
by chilibean_3 on Dec 28, 2011 4:46 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Some 49ers fans actually think Alex Smith was snubbed.
Still the father of two-time Cy Young Award winner Tim Lincecum.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
LOL THEM
seriously he’s having a decent year but now pro-bowl worthy
I'm on the twitters @FFFFFFFFreak55
2010: TGWTWS One of the most unbelievable, impossible, magic-packed amazing years of my life.
Before I even look at a giants lineup I'm already thinking LOLBELT
WHY IS CABRERA?!?!
The 2011 San Francisco Giants: comprised of extraordinary pitching and a black hole of suck that is their offense
Cordell Stewart was raging about it on Mike & Mike this morning.
It was pretty entertaining, actually.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
I’d have Rodgers, Manning, Brees, Ryan, Romo, Newton, Stafford ahead of Smith. If they an NFC West vs. AFC West Pro Bowl, then Smith deserves it, Sadly, he’s the best QB in the NFC West.
Still the father of two-time Cy Young Award winner Tim Lincecum.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
Like most of the time...JoePo is the man to go to.
http://joeposnanski.si.com/2011/12/27/hof-story-3-the-yea-votes/
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
love his ballot
and his reasonings <3
he clearly spends more time thinking about his ballot than most
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
JoPo clearly spends more time thinking than most.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
Willie Mays was so good
Cash rules everything around me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar dollar bill y'all
Also, love this:
For 10 years — 1993 through 2002 — he hit .306/.422/.574, and even though that was when offense was king, those crazy numbers were still good enough to make him the best hitter East of Barry Bonds.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
Here’s an issue I have with basing the HOF entry on stats: what are you going to do with the steroid era? It’s pretty clear that Bonds & McGwire, for two, had their numbers skewed to some degree because of whatever they took. I realize those are two guys who would most likely have made it anyway without steroids, but I imagine there are a ton of borderline HOF candidates who have skewed numbers. We don’t know to what degree, but the elephant in the room is there.
You can’t just leave all PED users out, that’s going to leave a giant hole in the HOF timeline. I’m not saying it should be “whoever was famous” either, but to me, the HOF should tell the story of the history of baseball, highlighting the most significant players/coaches that shaped the game. Obviously most of the players will have the highest level of statistical play, but I do think there should be room for important players who may not have the best stats out there, but still shaped the game in some significant way.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
compare them to their peers
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
If only there was a stat that did this...
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
Stats are for nerdz
guts and heart is what gets you in!
Eckstein for the HoF!
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
but do you think it’s fair to compare them to their peers when we don’t really know the prevalence of PED use? Even if you do that, there could be a number of guys getting in that wouldn’t have deserved it otherwise.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Dec 28, 2011 4:57 PM PST up reply actions
The same thing happened in the ’20s and ’30s.
Cash rules everything around me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar dollar bill y'all
As much as baseball “purists” would like to claim, there is no way you can compare a player from one generation with another in a different generation.
Pitchers had tremendous advantage in 1900-1920s because they only used 2 balls for the entire game.
Players before the 1950s did not have against non-white players.
Players between 1960s-1980s had to travel the entire country and many did drugs (just not steroids)
Players between mid 1980s to mid 2000 were the “steroid era”.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
As much as baseball "purists" would like to claim, there is no way you can compare a player from one generation with another in a different generation.
Wait, what? How does ERA+ and OPS+ (and adjusted stats in general) not account for that?
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
Because of all the issues that related to actual baseball playing
like steroids or segregation.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
Ok, segregation is an obvious one, but how does OPS+ not account for steroids? Because you don’t know who was clean and who wasn’t?
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
That
and it’s impossible to know what effect steroids really did have and what players in the “non-steroid era” did or did not do to affect their performance.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
I mean, that goes for all eras. Greenies were prevalent for a long time. Taking this to its logical end, not only can you not compare players between eras, you can’t compare them even within the same era.
I don’t think that’s true.
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
It’s a lot easier to compare players of the same era.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
I don’t think that’s true. Or, at least, you have yet to provide any evidence that would convince me of its truth.
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
Different pitches seems to be a big factor. What if Babe Ruth couldn’t hit a cutter?
by GuyWhiteyCorngood on Dec 29, 2011 10:02 AM PST up reply actions
Just because stats are a factor doesn’t mean you can’t take other factors or the overall context into the voting.
@legaleagle88
Giants Baseball: Why Not?
I thought Nate Schierholtz was cool before it was cool to think Nate Schierholtz was cool.
I completely agree
And was kind of trying to make that point. I’m all for using stats to compare people, just reading through the comments it seems like a lot of people here balk at using measurements other than stats.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Dec 28, 2011 4:58 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, I think a bunch of people said, “stats shouldn’t be everything.”
@legaleagle88
Giants Baseball: Why Not?
I thought Nate Schierholtz was cool before it was cool to think Nate Schierholtz was cool.
The “stats shouldn’t be everything” line seems to come up a lot, but I honestly can’t imagine anybody saying with a straight face “Yeah, stats are everything.”
What are we defending?
Once more, coming to you by proxy.
by howtheyscored on Dec 29, 2011 11:44 AM PST up reply actions
Rule for voting
"Voting shall be based upon the player’s record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played."
That leaves a lot of room for non-stats stuff.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
Oh, and by the way.
Beat the Longhorns. Woo.
/has no ties to Cal
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
I’ve come to the conclusion that there are multiple ways to earn your way into the HOF: through stats, or through fame. Omar Vizquel probably doesn’t deserve to get in by the numbers, but he certainly will get some votes, and I don’t necessarily disagree with that. He basically embodies my ideal baseball player, personality-wise. That being said, if someone, like Bagwell, has phenomenal numbers, I absolutely believe he should be in. He should not be excluded for lack of publicity.
Carter Jurica!
"Has anyone really been for even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?"
by GrahamCrakalaka on Dec 28, 2011 4:57 PM PST reply actions
People have said that Omar will be hurt by the fact he also played in the same era as Nomar, Jeter, and ARod and so comes out only as the 4th best SS of his time and thus not quite HoF worthy. I think Omar should be a no brainer but I don’t make those decisions
by Dingoes Ate My Baby on Dec 28, 2011 8:14 PM PST up reply actions
I would like to see Omar get in
If simply because it’s nice to see some defense-first guys in there. Omar is the 4th best SS of his era, but he’s one of the best defensive shortstops ever. My opinion is that it merits consideration, but I get why it lacks appeal to the voters.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
Anyone watch the Military Bowl?
I was just checking the scores and realized they scored a lot of points. Was it a good game?
If you're watching a blowout, you can pass the time by counting the double teapots.
Samurai Champloo > Macross
It featured a jaw-dropping ending, that's for sure.
11 01 10
Veni Vidi Vixi
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Dec 28, 2011 8:45 PM PST up reply actions
See, this is why I don't have any problem with talking about politics here
This discussion about the Hall of Fame is far more heated than anything politics-related that gets discussed here.
Cash rules everything around me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar dollar bill y'all
RON PAUL!!!!!
/gets banned
"Baseball is a red-blooded sport for red-blooded men. It's no pink tea, and mollycoddles had better stay out." -Ty Cobb
Mayor of Smug.
by rotorueter on Dec 28, 2011 5:04 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
If you all weren’t so wrong then I wouldn’t feel the need to degrade you personally.
Andre Ethier: Gross-o-Matic 5000
-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler
What you are saying is that
I am asking for it.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
In truth I save most of my degradation for GiantPain, but even that is mostly in fun. I’m not intelligent enough to have complicated opinions about baseball, politics, literature, and food (much as I may wish to). All I can do riff – the weakest for of commentary.
Andre Ethier: Gross-o-Matic 5000
-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler
But yes, you’re asking for it. Not liking fish is just criminal.
Andre Ethier: Gross-o-Matic 5000
-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler
Don’t forget cake > pie
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
by speckops on Dec 28, 2011 5:10 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
What about fishcakes?
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
This is a serious misquote
I like most fish: Salmon, Halibut, Tuna, Chilean Seabass, Mahi Mahi, Cod, etc.
I do not like catfish, seafood stews or soups, or sushi that much.
I really don’t like crab, squid, oysters, or other mollusks.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
So you like bony fish
but not other seafood (which are not fish). This is acceptable.
You are still wrong for not liking sushi, though.
Ron Washington really Britta'd that Series.
Please follow my Twitter
by Murray, Present on Dec 28, 2011 7:05 PM PST up reply actions
Lock me up and throw away the key.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
done and done
"Baseball is a red-blooded sport for red-blooded men. It's no pink tea, and mollycoddles had better stay out." -Ty Cobb
Mayor of Smug.
/feeds you nothing but water and grilled salmon
"Baseball is a red-blooded sport for red-blooded men. It's no pink tea, and mollycoddles had better stay out." -Ty Cobb
Mayor of Smug.
/constructs shiv from fish bones
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
Where would you hide it? You know they do cavity searches.
If you're watching a blowout, you can pass the time by counting the double teapots.
Samurai Champloo > Macross
by doubleteapot on Dec 28, 2011 5:36 PM PST up reply actions
Between someone's ribs.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
Scott Boras at his best
Edwin Jackson may not be an ace, but he’s the top free agent starter available at this point in the offseason. Agent Scott Boras told Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports that Jackson is a safer bet than Japanese right-hander Yu Darvish.
"If someone were to say that Yu Darvish would come in, average 200 innings, less than a 4.00 ERA and be a solid two or three starter, they would be elated," Boras said. "The reality is, that is exactly what Edwin Jackson has done."
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
Elated at under 4.00?
God, we’re so spoiled.
Cash rules everything around me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar dollar bill y'all
Boras is overstating his case.
In the current league, a 4 ERA is a 4th starter.
The actual best starter available is Hiroki Kuroda.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
Jackson has had a very up and down season
but even in a good year last year, he was a 3.1 rWAR. He’s a 3rd/4th starter.
Darvish has the potential to be a no. 1 and probably will be a no. 2 or 3. He will be a no. 3 on the Angels.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
fail
he will be a no. 1 or no. 2 on Texas.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
The Winds of Winter sample chapter omg
http://www.georgerrmartin.com/if-sample.html
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
I KNOW
though someone on westeros.org pointed out that this chapter could take place before the last Jon chapter of ADWD
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
Wait
I thought they were all frozen. Where exactly are they?
Ron Washington really Britta'd that Series.
Please follow my Twitter
by Murray, Present on Dec 28, 2011 6:43 PM PST up reply actions
What is it about those books that immediately puts me to sleep whenever I try to start them.
"Baseball is a red-blooded sport for red-blooded men. It's no pink tea, and mollycoddles had better stay out." -Ty Cobb
Mayor of Smug.
Not my cup of tea either.
Adopted Giant: Eddie I Have It Grant.
TSFGWTWS DESPITE Botchy, not BECAUSE of him.
I didn’t mean for my post to be a troll—-I really want to like those books, but I get so bogged down in names.
"Baseball is a red-blooded sport for red-blooded men. It's no pink tea, and mollycoddles had better stay out." -Ty Cobb
Mayor of Smug.
Got to hang tough a bit and arrive at the epic parts.
Andre Ethier: Gross-o-Matic 5000
-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler
WHAT DID WAR AND PEACE ALSO HAVE TOO MANY NAMES?
Andre Ethier: Gross-o-Matic 5000
-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler
I read War and Peace without really paying attention to the names. It didn’t make a lot of sense, but there were some memorable scenes.
Cash rules everything around me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar dollar bill y'all
To be honest, I found War and Peace to be rather dizzying. Having every other person be named Sasha was a bold narrative choice.
Andre Ethier: Gross-o-Matic 5000
-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler
at least it's not 100 Years of Solitude
by Lies and Perfidy on Dec 28, 2011 7:46 PM PST up reply actions
this
easiest book to fall asleep to that I ever tried to read
I sit and await always faithful to the giants
by luved the stick on Dec 28, 2011 9:05 PM PST up reply actions
yup
did you make it through it ?
I’ve read War and Peace and Uncle Tom’s Cabin, couldn’t finish Solitude.
Adopted Giant: Eddie I Have It Grant.
TSFGWTWS DESPITE Botchy, not BECAUSE of him.
Since I read ridiculously fast there are few books I don’t make it through. Solitude was one, something by Rushdie [not verses though] and Lamb are the only 3 books I never managed to finish.
Adopted Giant: Eddie I Have It Grant.
TSFGWTWS DESPITE Botchy, not BECAUSE of him.
I don’t finish books all the time. But not the ones you mentioned. I loved Lamb!
Just play a Brandon or two, come on!
I spent 10 years on an atheist debate channel and found the stuff in Lamb not as crazy as the stuff from that channel, difficult to describe really….
Adopted Giant: Eddie I Have It Grant.
TSFGWTWS DESPITE Botchy, not BECAUSE of him.
I remember you mentioning that once when things got hairy here between the statheads and the straw hats.
How about that Logan Couture? He is just awesome.
Just play a Brandon or two, come on!
I think somebody starched Joe’s boxers, he’s cranky tonight.
Adopted Giant: Eddie I Have It Grant.
TSFGWTWS DESPITE Botchy, not BECAUSE of him.
He did get a goal tho.
Plus Vancouver is getting away with murder, while he’s been in the box twice.
Just play a Brandon or two, come on!
The Rushdie book was probably Midnight’s Children—I loved it the same way I loved 100 Years of Solitude. Perhaps those magical realism are not your cup of tea :-)
Yeah, I loved Midnight’s Children, too. I guess we have the same taste in books.
Just play a Brandon or two, come on!
I made it through, although it took me a while. Rereading 2 pages to start every night and of course the names were confusing . Without the chart in the front of the book, who knows.
I loved it
I sit and await always faithful to the giants
by luved the stick on Dec 28, 2011 9:58 PM PST up reply actions
100 Years of Solidarity
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
God, that would suck.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
For us, at least
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
I get pretty tired of me sometimes, too.
It’s why I take breaks.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
How does one take a break from oneself? Out-of-body experience?
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
From here, I mean.
I’d like to think I’m more tolerable in person.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
Getting wound up in the tangle that is that family is exactly the point, though. If you’re not struggling to keep them all straight, Marquez isn’t doing his job. It’s a beautifully written book, in the English translation. Marquez even says he prefers the English translation, though his reasons for saying that are unclear.
Once more, coming to you by proxy.
by howtheyscored on Dec 29, 2011 11:48 AM PST up reply actions
I just don’t care. And the more people act like it’s OMG THE BEST THING EVER the less I care.
Adopted Giant: Eddie I Have It Grant.
TSFGWTWS DESPITE Botchy, not BECAUSE of him.
well, I clearly don't mean for you to read this
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
You’re a monster more fiendish than even CalBear949
Andre Ethier: Gross-o-Matic 5000
-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler
That's is totally uncalled for.
Not need to issue rotoreuter like that.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
insult…typing fail…
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
I take issue with your typing!
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Dec 28, 2011 5:51 PM PST up reply actions
There are a lot of names
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
Stark Direwolves
C Bran
1B Ned
2B Maester Luwin
3B Robb
SS Arya
LF Sansa
CF Jon
RF Catelyn
P Theon (Book 1 Theon)
batboy Rickon
Ron Washington really Britta'd that Series.
Please follow my Twitter
by Murray, Present on Dec 28, 2011 6:35 PM PST up reply actions
The Lions of Lannister
C Kevan Lannister, the solid, reliable backstop.
1B Gregor Clegane, the cleanup monster.
2B Tyrion Lannister, the oft-underestimated savvy defender up the middle.
SS Bronn, completing the double-play combo and offering a strong bat.
3B Sandor Clegane, the power threat at the hot corner.
LF Shagga Son of Dolf, a statue in the field but a beast at the plate.
CF Jaime Lannister, the five-tool wonder.
RF Vargo Hoat, a wild hacker but just look out when he runs into one.
SP Cersei Lannister, the crafty lefty to end them all.
Closer/Manager Tywin Lannister, running the game from the bench and then coming in to finish the job when the enemy is on the verge of defeat.
by Lies and Perfidy on Dec 28, 2011 7:17 PM PST up reply actions
Wait, you can't have sellswords!
I’ll switch out Sansa with Rodrik Cassell, and put in Brynden Blackfish for the Maester.
Ron Washington really Britta'd that Series.
Please follow my Twitter
by Murray, Present on Dec 28, 2011 7:54 PM PST up reply actions
The Lannisters stacked their roster
by Lies and Perfidy on Dec 28, 2011 7:55 PM PST up reply actions
Really, I'd put them up against anyone
Except possibly Team Dany, if they’re allowed to play dragons in the outfield.
by Lies and Perfidy on Dec 28, 2011 7:58 PM PST up reply actions
Targaryen Dragons
LF Rhaegar
CF Viserion
RF Drogon
Manager Daenerys
Game over.
Ron Washington really Britta'd that Series.
Please follow my Twitter
by Murray, Present on Dec 28, 2011 7:59 PM PST up reply actions
whoops, Rhaegal.
Ron Washington really Britta'd that Series.
Please follow my Twitter
by Murray, Present on Dec 28, 2011 8:01 PM PST up reply actions
But team Dany is pretty good even without dragons
2B Grey Worm
CF Aggo
P Ser Barristan
1B Khal Drogo (or Daario, if we don’t allow dead people)
RF Rakharo
C Strong Belwas
LF Jhogo
SS Ser Jorah
3B Skahaz
P Brown Ben Plumm?
Ron Washington really Britta'd that Series.
Please follow my Twitter
by Murray, Present on Dec 28, 2011 8:09 PM PST up reply actions
She is only a young girl and knows little of baseball
Ron Washington really Britta'd that Series.
Please follow my Twitter
by Murray, Present on Dec 28, 2011 8:15 PM PST up reply actions
this chapter just got me so excited for TWOW
too bad it’s probably like 4 years away
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
I’m only on A Clash of Kings. Glad to know I have a lot more to read.
Proud parent of SD-born Shane Loux.
If Cain is with us, who can be against us? - atxgiantsfan
You can word it better than that
I’m only on ACoK. Glad to know I have a lot more to look at.
Cash rules everything around me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar dollar bill y'all
ACok is so much longer too. So far I’ve only been able to devour a small portion but I’m looking forward to taking it all in.
Proud parent of SD-born Shane Loux.
If Cain is with us, who can be against us? - atxgiantsfan
ACoK is a lot to handle, it’s true.
Cash rules everything around me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar dollar bill y'all
It’s hard to behave when you’ve got ACoK in your hands.
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Dec 29, 2011 10:11 AM PST up reply actions
Sometimes I peruse it on the can, other times at the dinner table.
Proud parent of SD-born Shane Loux.
If Cain is with us, who can be against us? - atxgiantsfan
At the dinner table is just rude
Ignoring other folks at the table because you have ACoK in your hands is the worst in bad manners.
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 29, 2011 11:07 AM PST up reply actions
What if your family values things like though, and they want you to grow and enjoy yourself? It seems like they might be willing to forgo the conversation and let you enjoy ACoK at the table.
by GuyWhiteyCorngood on Dec 29, 2011 11:10 AM PST up reply actions
At least you ought to share ACoK with them instead of enjoying it all by yourself.
Cash rules everything around me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar dollar bill y'all
That’s just basic etiquette for people with ACoK.
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Dec 29, 2011 12:45 PM PST up reply actions
The dinner table is the only place to sit in our upstairs (we have a family room downstairs) so it’s not that I’m thumbing through ACok while eating dinner but that I just happen to be sitting at the dinner table. That’s not to say I am ashamed of ACok it’s just more of a manners thing.
Proud parent of SD-born Shane Loux.
If Cain is with us, who can be against us? - atxgiantsfan
Cal Offense
apparently model itself after the Niners offense.
Yeah FG attempts.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
Too bad they don't model the 49ers defense
If you're watching a blowout, you can pass the time by counting the double teapots.
Samurai Champloo > Macross
by doubleteapot on Dec 28, 2011 5:37 PM PST up reply actions
LOL MAYNARD
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
Did we talk about this
SAC Capital’s Steven Cohen Putting Together Bid For Dodgers
SAC Capital Advisors Founder Steven Cohen is bidding on the Dodgers and has "engaged one of America’s notable sports architecture firms to propose renovations to Dodger Stadium, allied himself with one of baseball’s power brokers, secured the support of at least two prominent Angelenos and met with several major league owners." He was joined in those meetings by WMG agent Arn Tellem, who "could run the Dodgers if Cohen were to buy the team." Cohen earlier this year "explored bidding" for a minority share of the Mets (L.A. TIMES, 12/28).
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
I don't like Cal
But watching the Holiday Bowl, it seems like ESPN is pro Texas. I guess it’s because ESPN has ownership stake in the Longhorn Network.
Still the father of two-time Cy Young Award winner Tim Lincecum.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
How dare you accuse ESPN of bias!
Their record of integrity speaks for itself
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
Well,
there’s also the fact that Cal is unranked, and is a serious underdog in this game.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
Off topic but I just got back from Six Flags with some college friends. It was really fun
got to see baby Brandon the giraffe. he was separated from the other giraffes and was trying to undo the gate with his tongue, I was thinking “wow he’s acting like Belt” trying to get out to play
I'm on the twitters @FFFFFFFFreak55
2010: TGWTWS One of the most unbelievable, impossible, magic-packed amazing years of my life.
Before I even look at a giants lineup I'm already thinking LOLBELT
WHY IS CABRERA?!?!
The 2011 San Francisco Giants: comprised of extraordinary pitching and a black hole of suck that is their offense
giraffe tongues are weird
Adopted Giant: Eddie I Have It Grant.
TSFGWTWS DESPITE Botchy, not BECAUSE of him.
yes they are
I work there as a guide to the animal exhibits today was my day off, usually I work at the dolphin pool that is really fun. I’ve been going there since it was marine world
I'm on the twitters @FFFFFFFFreak55
2010: TGWTWS One of the most unbelievable, impossible, magic-packed amazing years of my life.
Before I even look at a giants lineup I'm already thinking LOLBELT
WHY IS CABRERA?!?!
The 2011 San Francisco Giants: comprised of extraordinary pitching and a black hole of suck that is their offense
yep
and africa USA was in Santa Rosa and they combined them when they moved to Vallejo. I remember they had two Orcas there and those were and still are my favorite animals, along with the dolphins
I'm on the twitters @FFFFFFFFreak55
2010: TGWTWS One of the most unbelievable, impossible, magic-packed amazing years of my life.
Before I even look at a giants lineup I'm already thinking LOLBELT
WHY IS CABRERA?!?!
The 2011 San Francisco Giants: comprised of extraordinary pitching and a black hole of suck that is their offense
The Bears, they are golden.
"I don’t know, just chuck it as hard as you can".-Buster Posey, on how to gun down stolen base attempts
Right after I typed that, they gave up a long touchdown.
They are now losing 14-10
"I don’t know, just chuck it as hard as you can".-Buster Posey, on how to gun down stolen base attempts
LOL BEARS
I'm on the twitters @FFFFFFFFreak55
2010: TGWTWS One of the most unbelievable, impossible, magic-packed amazing years of my life.
Before I even look at a giants lineup I'm already thinking LOLBELT
WHY IS CABRERA?!?!
The 2011 San Francisco Giants: comprised of extraordinary pitching and a black hole of suck that is their offense
Good Sharks and Warriors games tonight
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
I'm assuming Burns is in hockey
I am also guessing baseball and hockey are your two sports and not the other two major sports.
Still the father of two-time Cy Young Award winner Tim Lincecum.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
At this point in my life, yes.
Also tennis, but its their very short off season.
Just play a Brandon or two, come on!
Boyle has been having a crappy year.
What’s with successful PK, then give up a nothing goal? That’s twice this week.
Just play a Brandon or two, come on!
he did have a broken foot
Adopted Giant: Eddie I Have It Grant.
TSFGWTWS DESPITE Botchy, not BECAUSE of him.
Wow Luongo
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
That was a nice save.
WTF Sharks, when will they learn to stop turning it over so stupidly so often?
Just play a Brandon or two, come on!
It's hard to believe they are tied for first in the division.
It sure as hell doesn’t feel like it.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
Shift-A
And I didn’t read the main post yet, but COME THE FUCK ON:
Brass has said they don’t like extensions for 1+ guys
Of course this group of slackjawed fucktards doesn’t like incredibly underpriced and awesome deals. That would be crazy.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, future CF for the World Champion San Francisco Giants.
"And besides, if I wanted to participate in a mindless patriotic ritual where my voice isn’t really heard, I would vote." - Chris Marcil
Post read; point stands
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, future CF for the World Champion San Francisco Giants.
"And besides, if I wanted to participate in a mindless patriotic ritual where my voice isn’t really heard, I would vote." - Chris Marcil
The Knicks and Warriors should trade coaches
I feel like each team would be better
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
I also think Klay Thompson doesn't know how to dribble
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
Oh, Cal.
You poor bastards with your butterfingers and your MaginO-Line.
11 01 10
Veni Vidi Vixi
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Dec 28, 2011 8:43 PM PST reply actions
GOAL
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
So have the A's finally succeeded in trading away every notable player on the team?
Who is left now, Braden and Suzuki?
The first six innings are overrated.
Daric Barton, Brett Anderson
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
AAA/Injured and recovering from TJ
Otherwise Anderson would definitely be gone already.
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
Peter Gammons:
The money is on the coasts. The Angels are Los Angeles and they soon will face the market challenge of the Dodgers. It is significant that Frank McCourt can sell to whomever gives him the best deal, as opposed to sales being coordinated by the Commissioner’s Office and other owners.
Whether it is Steve Cohen’s group or the Mark Walter/Magic Johnson/Stan Kasten group or a group headed by Dennis Gilbert, not only is McCourt going to get market value, but the new Dodgers are going to come charging. The difference between the NL West’s highest payroll, the Giants, and the lowest, the Padres, was nearly $80 million last year.
Where will that go? By Opening Day 2013, will the D-backs’ payroll be even half that of the Dodgers?
Brian Sabean: "We’re hoping like hell that Burriss can turn into the player we all forecasted him to be" / When it’s time for a change, think Barry Zito's fastball is a changeup. / ESPN: "The Mets swapped Carlos Beltran for Class A right-hander Zack Wheeler in July. Three months later, Baseball America has anointed Wheeler the Mets' top prospect." / Brian Sabean: "We didn't know specifically that we couldn't bring Carlos(Beltran) back" / The next time Freddy Sanchez gets hurt, it'll be time to Panik. / Brian Sabean: People really don't know the baseball card or the all around talent lets say, of a (Melky)Cabrera or (Angel)Pagan. And quite frankly, we're gonna have to hit on a (Aubrey)Huff coming back and being the player he was in 2010"
In deference to Ayoob’s infamy as Booya, my old roommate and I have taken to shouting Dranyam! anytime Cal football was embarrassing this season.
Once more, coming to you by proxy.
by howtheyscored on Dec 29, 2011 11:52 AM PST up reply actions
Jane Lee mlb.com Athletics reporter:
Maybe the A’s waited too long to trade him(Andrew Bailey), because I don’t think they got the haul they really wanted for him. Plus they also got rid of Ryan Sweeney in doing so. Seems like they could have waited till the trade deadline next year, just to up his value even more.
http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=20040829&topic_id=26016984
Brian Sabean: "We’re hoping like hell that Burriss can turn into the player we all forecasted him to be" / When it’s time for a change, think Barry Zito's fastball is a changeup. / ESPN: "The Mets swapped Carlos Beltran for Class A right-hander Zack Wheeler in July. Three months later, Baseball America has anointed Wheeler the Mets' top prospect." / Brian Sabean: "We didn't know specifically that we couldn't bring Carlos(Beltran) back" / The next time Freddy Sanchez gets hurt, it'll be time to Panik. / Brian Sabean: People really don't know the baseball card or the all around talent lets say, of a (Melky)Cabrera or (Angel)Pagan. And quite frankly, we're gonna have to hit on a (Aubrey)Huff coming back and being the player he was in 2010"
OT: I hate when divorcing couples
passive-aggressively fight through facebook. I’ve got two couples of friends doing this right now and it sucks.
Just play a Brandon or two, come on!
Time to pick sides
then unfriend the one that you didn’t pick.
"I don't get out of bed, for a million bucks!"
- Edgar Renteria or a hooker bribing a family man?
by Scooter Ellis on Dec 28, 2011 9:19 PM PST up reply actions
But I don't want to take sides.
I like them all. Just not their petty bickering.
Just play a Brandon or two, come on!
Unfriend them both. You don’t need that crap.
Still the father of two-time Cy Young Award winner Tim Lincecum.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
or all four.
Still the father of two-time Cy Young Award winner Tim Lincecum.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
Scorched earth FTW!
Proud parent of SD-born Shane Loux.
If Cain is with us, who can be against us? - atxgiantsfan
Have you considered sending them both a note?
“Hey, for those of us that care about both of you and want to remain friends with both of you, it’s pretty tough watching your sniping back and forth. I know you’re going through a lot, but I’m pretty sure you’re both good enough people that you’ll regret what you’re currently doing on Facebook.”
Bold Prediction: Pablo Sandoval finishes 1st or 2nd in 2012 NL MVP voting. I'm Twittering now (well maybe not literally now): @GoofusMcP
I imagine them both inviting you to events on the same day, and you’re the only invitee.
Once more, coming to you by proxy.
by howtheyscored on Dec 29, 2011 11:53 AM PST up reply actions
BREAKING!!
Cheetah The Chimp Did Not Die Yesterday, Was Already Dead.
A similar claim about another chimpanzee that supposedly played second banana to Weissmuller was debunked in 2008 in a Washington Post story.
Writer R.D. Rosen discovered that the primate, which lived in Palm Springs, Calif., was born around 1960, meaning it wasn’t oldest enough to have been in the Tarzan movies of Hollywood’s Golden Age that starred Olympic swimming star Weissmuller as the vine-swinging, loincloth-wearing Ape Man and Maureen O’Sullivan as Jane.
Also, that is one impressive run-on sentence.
11 01 10
Veni Vidi Vixi
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Dec 28, 2011 9:47 PM PST reply actions
Though not as impressive as this one on (or off) the subject of a post about same on Gawker.
I was of the belief that Douglas Adams, who surely must have penned this abomination (or, if you will, master stroke), was deceased, as I had read his obituary or some other such tribute to the great modern satirist – likely on a literary blog in no small part inspired by him – but I do not pretend to have any great memory or even any great desire to verify what I post (drats and confound you Google Searchbox, as you mock me from the upper right corner of my browser) and, in fact, must confess to that great inertial disease of internet apathy that allows me to care enough to spout off and return after a period to see the reaction that my spoutings have engendered but, ironically and paradoxically, not enough to actually fact-check to stave off any inflammatory responses to my posting about how I am lazy or ignorant or just plain stupid for trusting either my memory or the great amorphous internet (which I no longer capitalize, as per The New York Times Style Manual [again, this may be incorrect as it may be The AP Style Manual but I do not care enough to actually check]) and instead, as the great unwashed masses of angered internet readers will inform me, I should have checked the Wikipedia, which to them, is the ultimate culmination of mankind’s knowledge – a 21st Century Library of Alexandria, as it were, where the traditionally-maligned geeks now sit in stead of the formerly maligned Moors in safeguarding the collection of the wisdom of the ages, but, because this is modern times and we are living in the Ironic Epoch, it must be punctuated with snark and asides which add nothing and detract from an otherwise scholarly tone – a sentiment that I hold which, again, will likely raise the ire of the denizens of the Information Superhighway (O great archaic phrase of the Nineties).
11 01 10
Veni Vidi Vixi
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Dec 28, 2011 10:04 PM PST up reply actions
Which, again, may be stylistically poopy, but is not a run-on.
A run-on sentence improperly combines two complete, independent sentences. A run on sentence can be as short as a few words. “I went to the store, I bought butter.” is one example of a run-on. Run-on does not equal long.
Once more, coming to you by proxy.
by howtheyscored on Dec 29, 2011 12:00 PM PST up reply actions
It does run on and on, though, like Bilbo's roads.
No, you are of course correct. That sentence makes perfect sense despite its verbosity. It’s brilliant.
11 01 10
Veni Vidi Vixi
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Dec 29, 2011 1:41 PM PST up reply actions
That’s not a run-on sentence. It has some editing gaffs, though.
Once more, coming to you by proxy.
by howtheyscored on Dec 29, 2011 11:54 AM PST up reply actions
Or gaffes, even, unless you meant a seal-hunting weapon or cock-fighting spurs.
What’s that law about internet grammar corrections? ;-)
11 01 10
Veni Vidi Vixi
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Dec 29, 2011 1:39 PM PST up reply actions
HANG 'EM HIGH
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Dec 29, 2011 2:04 PM PST up reply actions
I most certainly meant a seal-hunting weapon or cock-fighting spurs.
Once more, coming to you by proxy.
by howtheyscored on Dec 29, 2011 5:19 PM PST up reply actions
There is a poll question on ESPN.com which shows how bad the top of the 2005 NFL Draft was: Which team made the best pick at the top of the 2005 NFL Draft? Choices are 49ers (Alex Smith), Dolphins (Ronnie Brown), Browns (Braylon Edwards), Bears (Cedric Benson), Bucs (Carnell Williams). If you want to add the rest of the top 10: Pacman Jones, Troy Williamson, Antrel Rolle, Carlos Rogers, Mike Williams.
Still the father of two-time Cy Young Award winner Tim Lincecum.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
Best Pick: Ronnie Brown
The Niners’ incompetence in QB development…sigh.
The Dude: Oh boy. How ya gonna keep 'em down on the farm once they've seen Karl Hungus.
Lots of meh, though most of those players were at least good for a bit.
Don't think he can cut it in the bigs? Brock Bond will be the bigger man and walk walk walk away.
Oh man, the rest of the first round looks so much better than the top 10. Ware, Merriman, Rodgers, Jamaal Brown, Roddy White, Heath Miller, etc.
Don't think he can cut it in the bigs? Brock Bond will be the bigger man and walk walk walk away.
carlos rogers has turned out okay!
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
I have no idea how the Warriors are blowing out the Knicks
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
I'm not about to ask questions.
Just trying to enjoy it while it lasts.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
kripes, I hope the Sharks don’t play Vancouver in the playoffs…somebody’s gonna get killed.
Adopted Giant: Eddie I Have It Grant.
TSFGWTWS DESPITE Botchy, not BECAUSE of him.
Yah these teams hate each other
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
double reverse jinx-o-rama-rama
Adopted Giant: Eddie I Have It Grant.
TSFGWTWS DESPITE Botchy, not BECAUSE of him.
Well that was familiar
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
I’m telling ya… these damn canucks are approaching dodger territory.
Adopted Giant: Eddie I Have It Grant.
TSFGWTWS DESPITE Botchy, not BECAUSE of him.
It's missing something...
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
Merope gonna hafta choka bitch…?
Why would you even hate the Dodgers?
They haven’t been relevant for years? The present day Giants-Dodgers rivalry is completely manufactured.
Adopted Giant: Eddie I Have It Grant.
TSFGWTWS DESPITE Botchy, not BECAUSE of him.
Where was this quote?
If you're watching a blowout, you can pass the time by counting the double teapots.
Samurai Champloo > Macross
by doubleteapot on Dec 28, 2011 10:15 PM PST up reply actions
fear the fin – sbn sharks blog
Adopted Giant: Eddie I Have It Grant.
TSFGWTWS DESPITE Botchy, not BECAUSE of him.
In what way?
If you're watching a blowout, you can pass the time by counting the double teapots.
Samurai Champloo > Macross
by doubleteapot on Dec 28, 2011 10:19 PM PST up reply actions
yeah there are some people over there that I usually try not to even respond to. They are either very young or just totally antagonistic. Or both. It can get weird. And not the kind of weird McC gets.
Adopted Giant: Eddie I Have It Grant.
TSFGWTWS DESPITE Botchy, not BECAUSE of him.
they haven't been relevant for years?
did i just imagine them winning the west in 08 and 09?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
I call him gerald. he’s a pristine white handkerchief, though? nediB eoJ Joe Biden ‽ Joe Biden.
Warriors!
I’m officially enthused
Bold Prediction: Pablo Sandoval finishes 1st or 2nd in 2012 NL MVP voting. I'm Twittering now (well maybe not literally now): @GoofusMcP
They're certainly fun to watch so far.
And since when have the Warriors ever pulled down 47 rebounds?
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
Somebody on KNBR said that they had been spending A LOT of time at practice working on defense.
Adopted Giant: Eddie I Have It Grant.
TSFGWTWS DESPITE Botchy, not BECAUSE of him.
Well, that's not surprising.
It’s been the biggest failing of Nelson’s second tour, and Jackson is all about “good, hard defense.”
If they keep playing like this, I could seem them finally sneaking back into the playoffs this year, though I worry about Curry’s ankle.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
Plus, the new players are looking good, especially Rush
The front line is playing well as a unit
Bold Prediction: Pablo Sandoval finishes 1st or 2nd in 2012 NL MVP voting. I'm Twittering now (well maybe not literally now): @GoofusMcP
Loving Rush so far, too, he’s really useful as a 6th man or off-guard.
Brown’s not looking like as dunderheaded a signing as we thought, either, though there’s plenty of season left.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
Raising the terror alert.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
!!!
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Dec 29, 2011 8:16 AM PST up reply actions
MLB Trade rumors sez:
The Giants won the 2010 World Series with an unspectacular offense and won 86 games in 2011 with one of the lowest scoring offenses in the game, but they’re the exception, not the rule. Each of the five highest scoring MLB teams won at least 90 games in 2011, while the Giants were the only one of the five lowest scoring teams to avoid 90 losses.
Here’s a look at what baseball’s five lowest scoring teams have done to improve their offenses so far this offseason.
The Giants traded for Angel Pagan and Melky Cabrera, who have both been above-average offensive players in the recent past. The Giants could improve considerably with a full season of Buster Posey and possible improvement from Brandon Belt.
Adopted Giant: Eddie I Have It Grant.
TSFGWTWS DESPITE Botchy, not BECAUSE of him.
5th in revenue should at least mean 5th in payroll
Peter Gammons @pgammo 27m Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
Giants were 5th in revenues in ‘11, A’s 29th, and 30th in attendance. Oakland will be last in both in ’12
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
Really?
Finance 101. I’ll type slowly. Looking at revenue without looking at expenses is as meaningless as looking at only the offense without looking at the pitching to decide how good a team is. For example, how many other teams have mortgage payments and have to pay on long-term lease for the land instead of taxpayer-provided ballparks?
Bold Prediction: Pablo Sandoval finishes 1st or 2nd in 2012 NL MVP voting. I'm Twittering now (well maybe not literally now): @GoofusMcP
Thanks for typing slowly
If you typed any faster I wouldn’t have been able to keep up! (TWSS)
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 29, 2011 7:27 AM PST up reply actions
Stories like these, though, make the Giants look really bad everytime they cry RDF or say they have no money to sign anybody. All that stuff you mentioned is true but most people don’t see stories like that and immediately start thinking about expenses. Right now, the Giants are getting clobbered from a PR standpoint. If the RDF and budget issues are a result of mortgage payments and what not, maybe it’ll be best if they let fans know or say so? ’Cause right now they look lame.
by Dingoes Ate My Baby on Dec 29, 2011 7:55 AM PST up reply actions
My first post on the Android app
I agree they’re getting hammered, but I think we’re capable of better insight than the OP
I hate that this app won’t turn sideways…typing on the smaller horizontal keypad sucks
Bold Prediction: Pablo Sandoval finishes 1st or 2nd in 2012 NL MVP voting. I'm Twittering now (well maybe not literally now): @GoofusMcP
by Goofus on Dec 29, 2011 8:12 AM PST via Android app up reply actions
maybe it’ll be best if they let fans know or say so? ’Cause right now they look lame.
I don’t know if they look lame, but they certainly look to be conservative spenders and to be very focused on their ROI. That’s not a bad concept if the FO has information that in 2015 they will have to contend with market forces ( San Jose A’s) that will significantly impact their ability to raise revenue through price increases.
They have stated they are very focused on retaining their core pitching. On the surface, that seems to be true. This may not be possible due to a number of factors including the fact that their biggest off season acquisition has been the hope that their 2012 offense will be productive.
I'm a Giants Fan, but I'll always be rooting for Matt Downs
Adopted Son:Dan Burkhart , Future Backup To Buster Posey.
I guess I have to bring this out again:
Shortly after it opened(Pacific Bell Park), owner Peter Magowan told ESPN that the Giants were meeting their $20 million annual debt service from in-stadium advertising alone.
Brian Sabean: "We’re hoping like hell that Burriss can turn into the player we all forecasted him to be" / When it’s time for a change, think Barry Zito's fastball is a changeup. / ESPN: "The Mets swapped Carlos Beltran for Class A right-hander Zack Wheeler in July. Three months later, Baseball America has anointed Wheeler the Mets' top prospect." / Brian Sabean: "We didn't know specifically that we couldn't bring Carlos(Beltran) back" / The next time Freddy Sanchez gets hurt, it'll be time to Panik. / Brian Sabean: People really don't know the baseball card or the all around talent lets say, of a (Melky)Cabrera or (Angel)Pagan. And quite frankly, we're gonna have to hit on a (Aubrey)Huff coming back and being the player he was in 2010"
by Grant_ME_MERCY on Dec 29, 2011 9:46 AM PST up reply actions
True, they got that big Comcast deal too.
Proud parent of SD-born Shane Loux.
If Cain is with us, who can be against us? - atxgiantsfan
San Francisco Business Times September 30, 2011:
Comcast SportsNet Bay Area, which broadcasts almost every Giants game, said 2011 was the highest-rated viewing season for the club in the network’s 21-year history.
For the 2011 season, the Giants averaged a 4.98 household rating, equal to an estimated 125,516 households in the San Francisco-San Jose-Oakland region. That is a 17 percent increase over last year’s previous season-high average household rating of 4.24.
That is good news for both Comcast and the Giants.
Higher ratings means Comcast can charge higher ad rates. The Giants since 2008 have owned one-third of Comcast SportsNet Bay Area, meaning the club can reap benefits from higher ad rates that come with better ratings.
Along with great TV ratings, the Giants set a new franchise single season attendance record of 3,387,303 in 2011.
Brian Sabean: "We’re hoping like hell that Burriss can turn into the player we all forecasted him to be" / When it’s time for a change, think Barry Zito's fastball is a changeup. / ESPN: "The Mets swapped Carlos Beltran for Class A right-hander Zack Wheeler in July. Three months later, Baseball America has anointed Wheeler the Mets' top prospect." / Brian Sabean: "We didn't know specifically that we couldn't bring Carlos(Beltran) back" / The next time Freddy Sanchez gets hurt, it'll be time to Panik. / Brian Sabean: People really don't know the baseball card or the all around talent lets say, of a (Melky)Cabrera or (Angel)Pagan. And quite frankly, we're gonna have to hit on a (Aubrey)Huff coming back and being the player he was in 2010"
by Grant_ME_MERCY on Dec 29, 2011 9:56 AM PST up reply actions
I have heard varying numbers, but I'm pretty sure they haven't finished paid it off yet.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
Yeah, they’re making more money now:
San Francisco Business Times March 24, 2011:
Meanwhile the team said many major sponsors have renewed and some new sponsors have signed deals with the club. New sponsors include Box.net, an online file sharing company, Salesforce, United Airlines, Sports Authority and Tiffany & Co.
Companies like Bank of America, Levi Strauss & Co., Genentech, Safeway, Toyota, Stubhub, See’s Candies and REMAX all renewed existing deals.
Retail sales have been strong for the club. Giants branded merchandise sold from the club-owned stores have tripled from the same period last year. The club gets to keep sales revenue from items sold in its stores.
Revenue from Giants branded items sold elsewhere and online gets divided among all 30 Major League Baseball clubs.
The stadium debt payments would not have gone up.
Brian Sabean: "We’re hoping like hell that Burriss can turn into the player we all forecasted him to be" / When it’s time for a change, think Barry Zito's fastball is a changeup. / ESPN: "The Mets swapped Carlos Beltran for Class A right-hander Zack Wheeler in July. Three months later, Baseball America has anointed Wheeler the Mets' top prospect." / Brian Sabean: "We didn't know specifically that we couldn't bring Carlos(Beltran) back" / The next time Freddy Sanchez gets hurt, it'll be time to Panik. / Brian Sabean: People really don't know the baseball card or the all around talent lets say, of a (Melky)Cabrera or (Angel)Pagan. And quite frankly, we're gonna have to hit on a (Aubrey)Huff coming back and being the player he was in 2010"
by Grant_ME_MERCY on Dec 29, 2011 9:53 AM PST up reply actions
Payroll is tied directly to projected attendance revenue(though Variable ticket pricing means they will most likely make more money):
Henry Schulman:
According to the Giants, their break-even revenue point with attendance at 3.25 million is $130 million, which is where the payroll is set.
There’s a down side to owning your own stadium, but there is an upside as well. Consider this for example:
Glenn Dickey SF Examiner 09/15/11:
Building their own park allows the Giants to control it, so they can schedule other events. The Giants have put together a very strong marketing/promotional department to make the most of their park — and the World Series windfall.
Brian Sabean: "We’re hoping like hell that Burriss can turn into the player we all forecasted him to be" / When it’s time for a change, think Barry Zito's fastball is a changeup. / ESPN: "The Mets swapped Carlos Beltran for Class A right-hander Zack Wheeler in July. Three months later, Baseball America has anointed Wheeler the Mets' top prospect." / Brian Sabean: "We didn't know specifically that we couldn't bring Carlos(Beltran) back" / The next time Freddy Sanchez gets hurt, it'll be time to Panik. / Brian Sabean: People really don't know the baseball card or the all around talent lets say, of a (Melky)Cabrera or (Angel)Pagan. And quite frankly, we're gonna have to hit on a (Aubrey)Huff coming back and being the player he was in 2010"
by Grant_ME_MERCY on Dec 29, 2011 9:59 AM PST up reply actions
Also
Giants had the 8th highest opening payroll last year and was basically tied with Mets for 7th. This is before the Giants added Beltran’s salary for 1/3 of the season.
Giants are one of the few teams who actually added payroll this year. Two teams ahead of the Giants last (Cubs and Mets) are slashing payroll. So the Giants would likely be 6th in payroll starting day 2012. The five team in front of the Giants would be Yankees, Phillies, Red Sox, Angels, and White Sox.
Additionally, the Giants’ fifth highest revenue comes off of a WS win and tremendous increase in merchandise sales. To expect that as the norm for every year is a little short-sided, especially with the San Jose/A’s issue looming.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
LOL HOW THEY ALLOCATED THAT PAYROLL
Proud parent of SD-born Shane Loux.
If Cain is with us, who can be against us? - atxgiantsfan
Yeah
but most other teams have similar issues with allocation of payroll.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
That doesn't make it OK
Don't think he can cut it in the bigs? Brock Bond will be the bigger man and walk walk walk away.
No
but it doesn’t make them a horrible franchise.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
I didn't say horrible
Don't think he can cut it in the bigs? Brock Bond will be the bigger man and walk walk walk away.
True
but a lot of people seem to make that indication. Putting a roster together is a inexact science, very good GMs swing and miss often.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
Barry Zito should never have signed with the Giants.
Tim Kawakami 12/29/2006
But come on, $126 million, almost a third more than any other offer, for a nonpower pitcher who has been increasingly wild and hittable of late?
He had a 1.403 WHIP in 2006!
Brian Sabean: "We’re hoping like hell that Burriss can turn into the player we all forecasted him to be" / When it’s time for a change, think Barry Zito's fastball is a changeup. / ESPN: "The Mets swapped Carlos Beltran for Class A right-hander Zack Wheeler in July. Three months later, Baseball America has anointed Wheeler the Mets' top prospect." / Brian Sabean: "We didn't know specifically that we couldn't bring Carlos(Beltran) back" / The next time Freddy Sanchez gets hurt, it'll be time to Panik. / Brian Sabean: People really don't know the baseball card or the all around talent lets say, of a (Melky)Cabrera or (Angel)Pagan. And quite frankly, we're gonna have to hit on a (Aubrey)Huff coming back and being the player he was in 2010"
by Grant_ME_MERCY on Dec 29, 2011 10:18 AM PST up reply actions
Jon Heyman December 28, 2006:
The Mets offered a five-year deal for between $75 million and $80 million and hoped to convince Zito that he could make up the difference by landing endorsements in New York.
…
The Rangers’ offer to Zito was $84 million over six seasons with a vesting for a seventh season at $15 million.
Brian Sabean: "We’re hoping like hell that Burriss can turn into the player we all forecasted him to be" / When it’s time for a change, think Barry Zito's fastball is a changeup. / ESPN: "The Mets swapped Carlos Beltran for Class A right-hander Zack Wheeler in July. Three months later, Baseball America has anointed Wheeler the Mets' top prospect." / Brian Sabean: "We didn't know specifically that we couldn't bring Carlos(Beltran) back" / The next time Freddy Sanchez gets hurt, it'll be time to Panik. / Brian Sabean: People really don't know the baseball card or the all around talent lets say, of a (Melky)Cabrera or (Angel)Pagan. And quite frankly, we're gonna have to hit on a (Aubrey)Huff coming back and being the player he was in 2010"
by Grant_ME_MERCY on Dec 29, 2011 10:20 AM PST up reply actions
It’s so much easier to bid when you know everyone else’s bids.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
Are you seriously defending the Giant signing of Zito?
Teams should pay players what they think their value is, not try and be the highest bidder to impress the charter seat licenses holders.
Brian Sabean: "We’re hoping like hell that Burriss can turn into the player we all forecasted him to be" / When it’s time for a change, think Barry Zito's fastball is a changeup. / ESPN: "The Mets swapped Carlos Beltran for Class A right-hander Zack Wheeler in July. Three months later, Baseball America has anointed Wheeler the Mets' top prospect." / Brian Sabean: "We didn't know specifically that we couldn't bring Carlos(Beltran) back" / The next time Freddy Sanchez gets hurt, it'll be time to Panik. / Brian Sabean: People really don't know the baseball card or the all around talent lets say, of a (Melky)Cabrera or (Angel)Pagan. And quite frankly, we're gonna have to hit on a (Aubrey)Huff coming back and being the player he was in 2010"
by Grant_ME_MERCY on Dec 29, 2011 10:32 AM PST up reply actions
No
just that gross overpays happen especially if you are going after FAs.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
Zito was the highest paid pitcher in MLB history at that point. I think you are under appreciating the magnitude of the overpay.
Brian Sabean: "We’re hoping like hell that Burriss can turn into the player we all forecasted him to be" / When it’s time for a change, think Barry Zito's fastball is a changeup. / ESPN: "The Mets swapped Carlos Beltran for Class A right-hander Zack Wheeler in July. Three months later, Baseball America has anointed Wheeler the Mets' top prospect." / Brian Sabean: "We didn't know specifically that we couldn't bring Carlos(Beltran) back" / The next time Freddy Sanchez gets hurt, it'll be time to Panik. / Brian Sabean: People really don't know the baseball card or the all around talent lets say, of a (Melky)Cabrera or (Angel)Pagan. And quite frankly, we're gonna have to hit on a (Aubrey)Huff coming back and being the player he was in 2010"
by Grant_ME_MERCY on Dec 29, 2011 10:35 AM PST up reply actions
Right
because none of the top payroll teams have horrible contracts.
Yankees: Arod, Texiera, Burnett
Red Sox: Lackey, Beckett, Crawford, Dice-K,
Angels: Vernon Wells, Torii Hunter, Scott Kazmir
White Sox: Peavy, Adam Dunn, Juan Pierre
Phillies: Howard, Blanton, Ibanez
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
Yes, the Giants have one too. His name is Aaron Rowand.
Barry Zito was a ungodly abomination.
Brian Sabean: "We’re hoping like hell that Burriss can turn into the player we all forecasted him to be" / When it’s time for a change, think Barry Zito's fastball is a changeup. / ESPN: "The Mets swapped Carlos Beltran for Class A right-hander Zack Wheeler in July. Three months later, Baseball America has anointed Wheeler the Mets' top prospect." / Brian Sabean: "We didn't know specifically that we couldn't bring Carlos(Beltran) back" / The next time Freddy Sanchez gets hurt, it'll be time to Panik. / Brian Sabean: People really don't know the baseball card or the all around talent lets say, of a (Melky)Cabrera or (Angel)Pagan. And quite frankly, we're gonna have to hit on a (Aubrey)Huff coming back and being the player he was in 2010"
by Grant_ME_MERCY on Dec 29, 2011 10:26 AM PST up reply actions
Okay
so the Giants are basically par for the course.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
but the Giants' issues would be rectified
had the Giants committed money to Crawford/Werth last year and/or Reyes/Pujols/Fielder this year.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
Correct
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 29, 2011 10:32 AM PST up reply actions
Tough crowd
Rodriguez posted a 116 OPS+ in a down year. Tex posted a 117 OPS+ in a down year. Both of those players are very overpaid for what they contributed last season, but they are far from useless.
Barry Zito is useless.
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 29, 2011 10:31 AM PST up reply actions
Except
There is 6 more years on ARod’s deal and 5 more on Texiera’s.
Howard had a 125 OPS+ last year but I don’t think anyone thinks his contract is good.
Zito had fWAR of 1.7, 1.4, 2.0, and 1.9 between 2007-2010.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
His contract last year was fine I think. It’s the contract that starts this year that is horrible. And as to further illustrate how horrible it was to offer him a contract that didn’t start for several years, he’ll be on the DL to start his new contract.
by GuyWhiteyCorngood on Dec 29, 2011 10:38 AM PST up reply actions
Zito was worth negative WAR last season
Meaning the Giants would have been a better team had he not played at all. For that, they paid 18 million dollars.
It isn’t even close.
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 29, 2011 10:38 AM PST up reply actions
He was also hurt last year
But I am sure Teixiera and ARod are going to be great in those final years of their contract.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
Maybe they won’t, but they were at least above average to begin the contracts.
by GuyWhiteyCorngood on Dec 29, 2011 10:40 AM PST up reply actions
Both of the Yankee players have performed to a level that more or less equals what they were paidat least once
Zito never has.
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 29, 2011 10:41 AM PST up reply actions
Calbear, I like you, I really do, but you do sound like you’re defending the Zito signing. That’s a stretch even for you.
Just play a Brandon or two, come on!
I feel like he’s doing lawyer practice or something.
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-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler
by Alex_Lewis on Dec 29, 2011 10:43 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I've believed this for a long time.
Proud parent of SD-born Shane Loux.
If Cain is with us, who can be against us? - atxgiantsfan
I'm not defending the Zito signing
It’s a horrible deal but a lot of people makes it sound that it’s on the only bad deal out there.
That is one of the big reasons why I don’t like FA signings, it’s pretty much a losing proposition.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
I don’t think people are exaggerating when they say that Zito’s deal is the worst one still on anyone’s books. Even if other bad contracts exist.
Just play a Brandon or two, come on!
I don’t think I refuted that one time.
Giants have one horrible contract and one absurd contract on their payroll. All I said was that the Giants are in line with other teams in offering bad contracts.
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2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
Saying all teams give out bad contracts is not to say that all teams load of albatrosses weigh the same. The Giants fuckups are of epic proportions compared to most.
Just play a Brandon or two, come on!
Of course not
Giants have a lower payroll than those other teams so the effects are greater. But most teams have one or two albatrosses.
The Carlos Lee contract has been bad for the Astros. They also have Wandy Rodriquez’s contract
Rangers have Michael Young
Indians have Hefner
Cubs had Ramirez, Soriano, and Zambrano
Braves had Chipper and Lowe
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2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
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I don’t think I refuted that one time.
Correct, you didn’t refute it. It seems like you’ve tried though. Like when you say stuff like this
All I said was that the Giants are in line with other teams in offering bad contracts.
by GuyWhiteyCorngood on Dec 29, 2011 11:04 AM PST up reply actions
But he's not
he’s just been grossly overpaid
He has been worth 6.6 fWAR in 5 years…which means he’s been worth about 24-30 million. He’s been paid $80 million.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
In two of his 5 seasons with the Giants, Zito has put up negative WAR
Baseball Reference has him totally 3.8 WAR over his Giants contract so far. Even grossly overpaid is an understatement. You mean historically overpaid.
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 29, 2011 11:01 AM PST up reply actions
Sure
Historically overpaid.
But a lot of teams have made the same mistake.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
Not to that degree.
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 29, 2011 11:04 AM PST up reply actions
Historically overpaid.
But a lot of teams have made the same mistake.
What the fuck do you think historically means?
by GuyWhiteyCorngood on Dec 29, 2011 11:06 AM PST up reply actions
Okay
so by fWAR, Zito has been grossly overpaid while with rWAR he has been historically overpaid.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
Haha
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 29, 2011 11:12 AM PST up reply actions
I really love how you cherry pick stats. I’ll quote oWAR for this guy, rWAR for that guy, and fWAR for this one and hope no one notices.
by GuyWhiteyCorngood on Dec 29, 2011 11:05 AM PST up reply actions
I usually quote BR stats but people give me grief about using BR WAR for Pitchers because it accounts for fielding.
I am pretty consistent with using oWAR for position players. I mistyped for Texiera but his dWAR was -0.1 last year so not really an effect.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
I usually quote BR stats but people give me grief about using BR WAR for Pitchers because it accounts for fielding.
Haha, you can’t win.
@legaleagle88
Giants Baseball: Why Not?
I thought Nate Schierholtz was cool before it was cool to think Nate Schierholtz was cool.
IIRC, Tango mentioned offhand on his site that he felt BR better described pitchers over their career whereas the other system better described year-to-year performance. I don’t remember any details though.
Cherry picking stats (or facts) is a pretty good definition of what good lawyers do.
Just play a Brandon or two, come on!
I think his only point is that other teams aren't immune from bad FA signings
Bold Prediction: Pablo Sandoval finishes 1st or 2nd in 2012 NL MVP voting. I'm Twittering now (well maybe not literally now): @GoofusMcP
No he said the Giants are “par for the course.” Some people believe that they are considerably under par, given their payroll and their albatrosses.
Just play a Brandon or two, come on!
Interpreting is subjective
I just think he means bad FA signings are par for the course. And he backed it up by rattling off contracts that teams probably wish they could have mulligans on.
I never saw him say (or even imply) something like, “Texiera’s contract is just as bad as Zito’s”
Bold Prediction: Pablo Sandoval finishes 1st or 2nd in 2012 NL MVP voting. I'm Twittering now (well maybe not literally now): @GoofusMcP
He kind of did
so the Giants are basically par for the course.
And if he doesn’t think they are just as bad, what’s the point of bringing them up?
by GuyWhiteyCorngood on Dec 29, 2011 11:50 AM PST up reply actions
To quote my post you're replying to...
I just think he means bad FA signings are par for the course.
As far as the point of bringing them up, I think it was in response to how some people here seem to imply that the team should be held to a standard that other teams are not.
Bold Prediction: Pablo Sandoval finishes 1st or 2nd in 2012 NL MVP voting. I'm Twittering now (well maybe not literally now): @GoofusMcP
Not when it’s blatantly obvious and hurts the case.
by GuyWhiteyCorngood on Dec 29, 2011 11:31 AM PST up reply actions
With some exceptions you can defend most of those contracts and almost all of them at least give some value.
The Giants have Zito and Rowand. And Zito is a failure on such a higher level.
by chilibean_3 on Dec 29, 2011 10:35 AM PST up reply actions
He has been such a failure because he plays for the Giants.
He was a below average to average pitcher between 2007-2010.
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2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
Who was paid to be the best pitcher in the game.
by GuyWhiteyCorngood on Dec 29, 2011 10:39 AM PST up reply actions
Of course
therefore the gross overpay.
ARod was paid to to be the best hitter in the game
Texiera the best 1B ditto for Howard
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2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
The Giants have a huge percentage of their payroll going to a player that can barely stay in the rotation and another who is struggling to get on a roster.
by chilibean_3 on Dec 29, 2011 10:44 AM PST up reply actions
ARod and Teixiera were worth around 4 war each, that’s double what Zito did in his best year with the Giants.
by GuyWhiteyCorngood on Dec 29, 2011 10:43 AM PST up reply actions
Last year?
Teixeria is had a 2.4 rWAR and Arod had a 2.0 oWAR
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
Or you can use the un-cherry picked
2.4 WAR and 2.7 WAR respectively
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 29, 2011 10:47 AM PST up reply actions
okay
still nowhere near a 4 WAR player.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
Still way better than negative WAR
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 29, 2011 10:49 AM PST up reply actions
He is such a failure because that contract was crazy dumb the moment it was signed. At no point was that much money or that many years in any way not insane.
by chilibean_3 on Dec 29, 2011 10:41 AM PST up reply actions
I'd say Howard's extension was crazy dumb the moment it was signed
Bold Prediction: Pablo Sandoval finishes 1st or 2nd in 2012 NL MVP voting. I'm Twittering now (well maybe not literally now): @GoofusMcP
As was
ARod’s extension
Soriano’s signing
Dunn’s signing
Teixera’s signing.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
Yep. same as Zito
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 29, 2011 11:13 AM PST up reply actions
Not the same
but still crazy.
Yankees gave ARod a 10 year/$275 million deal at age 32.
Texiera has a great year in 2008 while being just about above average offensively in 2006 and 2008 and the Yankees gave him 8 year/$180 million deal
Soriano had a resurgent year in 2006 after a couple of average year in 2004 and 2005 and the Cubs gave him 8/$136 million
Dunn is more a personal pick because I talked about him going down in 2010.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
Baseball players make a lot of money
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 29, 2011 11:21 AM PST up reply actions
Absolutely
but the deals are still crazy at the moment they were signed.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
Heh...exactly.
It is like the Chris Rock bit about the difference between being rich and being wealthy.
“Shaq is rich. The guy who signs Shaq’s checks is wealthy.”
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 29, 2011 11:25 AM PST up reply actions
The Giants are going to get paid if the A's move to San Jose
They will be paid a shitload of money; likely 100’s of millions of dollars. It will be enough to pay their stadium off (if they are so inclined. Carrying the debt has it’s advantages as well). And yet people keep using this as an excuse not to spend.
I don’t get it.
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 29, 2011 8:47 AM PST up reply actions
So being a top 6, 7 or 8 payroll is not spending? I don't get it
I have no qualms with people saying the Giants have spent money foolishly, but do you really believe a team spending $125-130MM is not spending?
That’s like buying a girl a bunch of expensive gifts for Christmas and her calling you cheap because she didn’t like what you got her.
Bold Prediction: Pablo Sandoval finishes 1st or 2nd in 2012 NL MVP voting. I'm Twittering now (well maybe not literally now): @GoofusMcP
I love how this keeps flipping back and forth between “they can’t spend” (which is what I was addressing) and “they have spent” which no one was.
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 29, 2011 11:17 AM PST up reply actions
Glad you typed slowly
Amazingly it still appeared on the screen at the same rate.
Like your literal reading of “Hall of Fame” I think you took my snide remark too literally. It was a general commentary on the cheap owners we have running the team who are only in it to make more millions of dollars on top of the millions of dollars they already have.
Keep defending them though. Millionaires need all the help they can get right now.
Quote from my adopted son Mike Krukow: "We're the Giants. We're San Francisco. And we're World Series Champions!"
The best Madison Bumgarner quote in the history of mankind
From The Argyled One:
Madison Bumgarner is a 21 year old lefty who spends oodles and oodles of time working inside against right-handed hitters. Madison Bumgarner’s balls are so big that they interfere with cell phone reception, and when you walk by him when you’re on the phone, you have to tell the person on the other end, hold on, I’m walking by Madison Bumgarner’s balls.
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 29, 2011 8:42 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
the comment
or Madbum’s balls?
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
Nope. Also being as its name on this sight, I never noticed that <3 looks like balls. Where did I miss this on the internet?
CrispinGlovers <3’s
by CrispinGloversBalls on Dec 29, 2011 11:57 AM PST up reply actions
The New Years fanpost is up http://www.mccoveychronicles.com/2011/12/29/2668322/ot-new-year
Talk to me about any typos later I haven’t had any caffeine yet!
Adopted Giant: Eddie I Have It Grant.
TSFGWTWS DESPITE Botchy, not BECAUSE of him.
Tax cheat!
NEW YORK (Reuters) – The U.S. government has sued New York Yankees co-owner Hal Steinbrenner and his wife seeking more than $670,00 in taxes, saying that amount was erroneously refunded to the baseball team based on a late refund claim for the 2001 tax year.
Not really but it’s a Steinbrenner so he must be crooked.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
keithlaw @keithlaw
My day just got a lot more interesting.
MLBTR: The Astros kicked off a new era when they hired Jeff Luhnow to be their new GM earlier this month, and now they’re looking to fill out the rest of their front office. Ken Rosenthal and Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports report that the Astros have interviewed ESPN’s Keith Law for a number of front office roles, including the position of scouting director. They have not yet made him an offer, however.
You keep calling in Affeldt. I don't think that means what you think it means.
I wonder if Andrew Bailey has found out about
being traded yet
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
Pic no good; balls cropped
Bold Prediction: Pablo Sandoval finishes 1st or 2nd in 2012 NL MVP voting. I'm Twittering now (well maybe not literally now): @GoofusMcP
Well, actually every photo of Madbum taken from the earth’s surface would have the same fault.
Satellite (or spy plane) photos are the only ones that can get them in.
Though it is clearly well-informed, we find his argument unconvincing; however, the possibility that we are too stupid to comprehend it deserves serious consideration. Germane Literature: The Cutting Edge 13:2, 4/2006
What you need to know about the difference between the Rays and the Giants
Next year, Affeldt will make 5 million.
Evan Longoria will make 4.5.
The most delightful ecumenical contradiction in nomenclature.
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
by GiantPain on Dec 29, 2011 10:32 AM PST via mobile reply actions
Yeah
that’s a fair comparison.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
Cuz
Panda made $500K last year.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
Q: With the signing of Jeremy Affeldt, too, the Giants are bringing back the same veteran lefties as before. Do you have a kind of kinship?
Javier Lopez: There’s no doubt about it. When the story broke that I signed a two-year deal, he texted me and asked if I did actually sign. I said, “Yeah, I did,” and he goes, “Well, I guess we’re done.” He was thinking that they weren’t gonna bring us both back, but he ended up calling me back about 20 minutes later to say, “They just called me and said they picked up my option.”
Brian Sabean: "We’re hoping like hell that Burriss can turn into the player we all forecasted him to be" / When it’s time for a change, think Barry Zito's fastball is a changeup. / ESPN: "The Mets swapped Carlos Beltran for Class A right-hander Zack Wheeler in July. Three months later, Baseball America has anointed Wheeler the Mets' top prospect." / Brian Sabean: "We didn't know specifically that we couldn't bring Carlos(Beltran) back" / The next time Freddy Sanchez gets hurt, it'll be time to Panik. / Brian Sabean: People really don't know the baseball card or the all around talent lets say, of a (Melky)Cabrera or (Angel)Pagan. And quite frankly, we're gonna have to hit on a (Aubrey)Huff coming back and being the player he was in 2010"
by Grant_ME_MERCY on Dec 29, 2011 11:05 AM PST up reply actions
haha, even the players thought it wasn’t a good idea.
by GuyWhiteyCorngood on Dec 29, 2011 11:08 AM PST up reply actions
Even Javier Lopez was wondering what the fuck they were thinking
lulz
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 29, 2011 11:08 AM PST up reply actions
Whaddaya mean “even?” He’s kind of smart for a baseball player.
Just play a Brandon or two, come on!
Javy is pretty smart in general
When it was suggested to Lopez that maybe he could be a combo major-league pitcher and FBI agent working undercover, he said, “Maybe I am.”
http://articles.sfgate.com/2010-10-30/sports/24545523_1_fbi-hitters-agent-zero
I'm a Giants Fan, but I'll always be rooting for Matt Downs
Adopted Son:Dan Burkhart , Future Backup To Buster Posey.
Why does Sabean do what he does:
Brian Sabean: "We’re hoping like hell that Burriss can turn into the player we all forecasted him to be" / When it’s time for a change, think Barry Zito's fastball is a changeup. / ESPN: "The Mets swapped Carlos Beltran for Class A right-hander Zack Wheeler in July. Three months later, Baseball America has anointed Wheeler the Mets' top prospect." / Brian Sabean: "We didn't know specifically that we couldn't bring Carlos(Beltran) back" / The next time Freddy Sanchez gets hurt, it'll be time to Panik. / Brian Sabean: People really don't know the baseball card or the all around talent lets say, of a (Melky)Cabrera or (Angel)Pagan. And quite frankly, we're gonna have to hit on a (Aubrey)Huff coming back and being the player he was in 2010"
by Grant_ME_MERCY on Dec 29, 2011 11:19 AM PST up reply actions
Sabey Sabester.
COMIN' ATCHA, FROM ANCHORAGE, ALASKA!
Fathaigh go mbuaimid!
Proud adoptive Father of Joe Panik. 2011 NWL MVP .
Job 1:14-15
When you put it that way...
/jumps out of the window
Proud parent of SD-born Shane Loux.
If Cain is with us, who can be against us? - atxgiantsfan
The argument totally ignores context. Don’t kill yourself quite yet.
@legaleagle88
Giants Baseball: Why Not?
I thought Nate Schierholtz was cool before it was cool to think Nate Schierholtz was cool.
Now you tell me.
/looks up at you from the floor, all mangled and hurt
Proud parent of SD-born Shane Loux.
If Cain is with us, who can be against us? - atxgiantsfan
OT Kawakami
has an unhealthy obsession with the Warriors
Pitching and defense wins championships, but oh those dingerz....
OT: I'm going to MIT!
The Massachusetts Institute of Technology (M.I.T.) will announce on Monday that they intend to launch an online learning initiative called M.I.T.x,which will offer the online teaching of M.I.T. courses free of charge to anyone in the world.
COMIN' ATCHA, FROM ANCHORAGE, ALASKA!
Fathaigh go mbuaimid!
Proud adoptive Father of Joe Panik. 2011 NWL MVP .
Job 1:14-15
I'm going to try out for their online baseball team
/walk on
Bold Prediction: Pablo Sandoval finishes 1st or 2nd in 2012 NL MVP voting. I'm Twittering now (well maybe not literally now): @GoofusMcP
Sign On ?
I'm a Giants Fan, but I'll always be rooting for Matt Downs
Adopted Son:Dan Burkhart , Future Backup To Buster Posey.
"Certificate of Participation" to be precise
The program will not allow students to earn an M.I.T. degree. Instead, those who are able to exhibit a mastery of the subjects taught on the platform will receive an official certificate of completion
They released their course materials via Creative Commons licensing years ago, no?
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Dec 29, 2011 12:50 PM PST up reply actions
Shift A
Balls.
Ross on Halladay: "I’d tried everything against him…going the other way, taking pitches, trying to walk…and nothing worked. I’d never tried going up there and just trying to hit a home run off him."
My boy has mad hops
I rant on Twitter
Somewhere in the offices of the San Francisco Giants
Susan is forced to still use a typewriter and Larry Baer makes her buy her own ribbon.
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 29, 2011 11:38 AM PST reply actions
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