Keppinger Still A Giant?

by shankbone on Dec 2, 2011 1:59 PM PST

I got my technique down and everything, why not another poll? This one Gints fans won't be so passionate about most likely: the decision to offer arbitration to Jeff Keppinger.

Keppinger stood in at 2nd base (some would say literally stood) for the injured Freddy Sanchez after a trade on July 19th with the Houston Astros for Henry Sosa and Jason Stoffel. He got off to a nice start, playing 2B and batting 2nd, and was an improvement over Bill Hall and Manny Burris. His final numbers were 255/285/618, reflecting a pretty bad slump at the end of the season. He even shaved off his beard in the last week or two of the season to try and get something going.

Keppinger is going into his 3rd arbitration and according to MLB TradeRumors is projected at 2.7MM.

Here is a blurb that describes Kepp as he was incoming: For the Giants, in Keppinger they land a solid, contact-hitting infielder. The 31-year-old righty has played plenty of second, third and short, and he's swung a decent bat. Over the past three years, he's batted .282 with more walks than strikeouts, and he'll give Bruce Bochy options, which is something every manager likes to have. And as an added bonus, Keppinger remains under team control in 2012.

I think its fair to be skeptical of any ability to play either SS or 3B, Keppinger demonstrated neither range nor an arm during the year. I would say he's the slowest player on the team by a long shot. He can hit, but not for much power and doesn't walk a lot either, although his career numbers are 281/332/720. Personally I was pretty unimpressed with Keppinger beyond a quick fill in. If the Giants can send out a blast fax with that above blurb though, maybe some team squints and wants a piece.

So if you're a 31 year old utility guy and Brian Sabean calls you a luxury, you're getting non tendered right? Not quite so fast. The middle infield market is white hot right now, with GMs lining up to dole out 2 year contracts. So there is the chance that a cost controlled one year player might have some value, bad fielding and all. I'm not sure how much he would fetch on the open market, my guess would be a failed pitching prospect that the Giants scouts have their eyes on.

Quick note: I would be shocked if the Giants don't offer Fontenot arbitration with the FA market so crazy. Given that he can play a decent 2B, SS and 3B I think he's a bargain this year. His estimate is $1.3MM, although I do question that amount a little due to the Giants giving him the take it or leave it offer last year. If anybody thinks its worth it, I'll be happy to throw up a Fontenot poll as well.

So Keppinger, we have 4 scenarios because of the obvious trade angle. Is he getting dropped to save the budget, picked up for the year to back up Freddy Sanchez, picked up to be moved along or the fourth choice: a hard bargaining Sabey Sabes, who does like to play hardball with guys in the 500K-3MM range from time to time.

Thanks to Fla-Giant and Goofus for straightening out my previous effort. I'm all ears for corrections again.

Poll

What will the Giants do with Jeff Keppinger?

Non Tender. Save 2.2MM and go with cheaper options.

72 votes

Don’t offer him arb, but bring him back at something less than $2.7MM

40 votes

Pay him the 2.7MM, plug him in as Sanchez insurance.

80 votes

Pay him the 2.7MM, trade him away

54 votes

246 votes | Poll has closed

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

Tweet Comment 36 comments | 0 recs |

Do you like this story?

Comments

There’s also the scenario where Sabean picks up with the intention of trading and then the market craters on him. But I guess that’s sort of covered by the keep him angle. Buyer beware type of thing.

by shankbone on Dec 2, 2011 2:13 PM PST reply actions

I can’t imagine Sabean thinking this way.

VAE PVTO DEVS FIO

by Bhaakon on Dec 2, 2011 6:33 PM PST up reply actions

I don’t think DFA is the right way to put it. They won’t offer him arbitration and he’ll become a free agent. They don’t have to designate him for assignment.

Proud owner of over 20,000 comments. (most of them in the wrong place) Oh yeah, and Buster Posey

by rxmeister on Dec 2, 2011 4:02 PM PST reply actions

I can see both trading and non-tendering him

I would trade him because I think he has non-zero value (after salary) to another team. If we gave up Stoffel and Sosa for him, maybe we could get another Stoffel back – some AA projected middle reliever is nothing to sneeze at. But the org’s decision is still up in the air IMO – we don’t know what they’re thinking and the answer isn’t obvious. One of the tougher questions the FO will face this offseason.

BTW, why is it that people use MM instead of M to denote millions? I figured $2.7M = two point seven million dollars, but where does the extra M go in $2.7MM = two point seven million dollars?

Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)

by quincy0191 on Dec 2, 2011 4:30 PM PST reply actions

Bad habit I suppose. I’ll correct next time. Also the DFA equals do not want in my mind, I should tighten up on the technical terms. Good catches.

by shankbone on Dec 2, 2011 5:30 PM PST up reply actions

Not just you

MLBTR uses MM as well. And it’s not necessarily a mistake, I just don’t understand it and would like to. It’s worth noting that when MLBTR has figures in the billions they write BB instead of B (as in $2BB instead of $2B) – I figured it was some convention I’d just never been privy to until now (well, recently).

It is important to differentiate between DFA and non-tender though.

Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)

by quincy0191 on Dec 2, 2011 6:52 PM PST up reply actions

Maybe it’s indicating multiples. M=million, MM = millions.

MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!

by Roger on Dec 2, 2011 7:15 PM PST up reply actions

That doesn't make any more sense

Expanding $2.7MM to two point seven millions dollars (or even dollar) is clearly grammatically incorrect. Not to mention it seems unnecessary and arbitrary; why would you change the abbreviation for multiples, and if you were going to, why not go from M to Ms or MS?

MLBTR also uses it for amounts between one and two million:

The Mets paid him approximately $1.1MM in 2011 and owe him the same amount in 2012.

I’m wondering if it’s a Roman numeral – M is 1,000 in Roman numerals, and 1,000 × 1,000 = 1,000,000, so technically you could expand $2MM to “2 × 1000 × 1000 dollars”; of course, in Roman numerals you add, not multiply, so MM=2,000 not 1,000,000. That, of course, doesn’t explain the BB, though perhaps that’s just an error created by assuming M=million instead of M=1000.

Then there’s K; we (and they) label things $800K which is clearly a reference to the prefix kilo- which means 1,000, but then the whole thing is inconsistent (for everybody) as we have a metric prefix + English abbrevations or metric prefix + Roman numerals + error about the origin of MM.

This whole thing is weird and my OCD would feel a lot better about it if we could come up with a consistent nomenclature.

Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)

by quincy0191 on Dec 2, 2011 7:51 PM PST up reply actions

Might I suggest employing the El Person Gambit and blaming the British? That sort of irrational formalism just reeks of tea and foreign policy adventurism.

2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller

by Johnny Disaster on Dec 2, 2011 9:46 PM PST up reply actions

Damn Limeys!

Bomb them!

Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)

by quincy0191 on Dec 3, 2011 12:45 AM PST up reply actions

French maybe

or there’s some Euro language I think that uses MM for millions.

Marvin Barrios, come on I'll show you your bedroom. Don't stay on the phone too long to Panama, please.

by foothillsfan on Dec 3, 2011 1:24 PM PST up reply actions

There’s an additional problem with “billion,” in that other languages—including some non-American dialects of English—use that word (or some derivative of it) to refer to what Americans would call a trillion.

Many of those languages then use the word “milliard” to refer to billion, which adds yet another M-word in to the abbreviation mix alongside million.

VAE PVTO DEVS FIO

by Bhaakon on Dec 2, 2011 10:05 PM PST up reply actions

Cleaned up the DFA language. Thanks!

by shankbone on Dec 3, 2011 8:34 AM PST up reply actions

FWIW

BTW, why is it that people use MM instead of M to denote millions? I figured $2.7M = two point seven million dollars, but where does the extra M go in $2.7MM = two point seven million dollars?

I’ve worked for three different financial institutions and a government regulatory agency. I’ve seen both two different standards used in the various offices I’ve worked in:

K=thousand, M=million
M=thousand, MM=millions

It’s confusing as hell.

Bold Prediction: Pablo Sandoval finishes 1st or 2nd in 2012 NL MVP voting. I'm Twittering now (well maybe not literally now): @GoofusMcP

by Goofus on Dec 3, 2011 4:15 PM PST up reply actions

Google is your friend

http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=460147

Yes, you can post “MM” as an abbreviation for “million”. MM is a pretty standard abbreviation for Million. It comes from Latin “Mille” meaning “thousand”, so MM is a “thousand thousands” which equals one million.

“MM” is widely used in the financial industry.

“Most English Speakers would not recognize” the abbreviation along with most speakers of any other language. This is because most “people” don’t deal with millions of dollars often enough to need an abbreviation. On the other hand, 99% of all “English Speaking” accountants, financiers, bankers, comptrollers, lawyers, financial trustees, investors, brokers, etc. know that mm is an abbreviation for million—and “m” is an abreviation for “thousand”, as laid out in Jstanek’s post.

Regardless, you make a valid point regarding usage and understanding. In summary, abbreviations, as with all written symbols and spoken words, should vary based upon your audience.

by Nivra on Dec 4, 2011 12:21 AM PST up reply actions

This explains a lot

Giants brass got confused and thought they were getting Zito for 7-years and $126,000

Bold Prediction: Pablo Sandoval finishes 1st or 2nd in 2012 NL MVP voting. I'm Twittering now (well maybe not literally now): @GoofusMcP

by Goofus on Dec 4, 2011 1:34 PM PST up reply actions

I think they keep him...

…and figure out part 2 at a later date. Sanchez insurance is good to have, and Keppinger isn’t a perfect guy, but he was a solid hitter who was even better before he came to the Giants.. He isn’t an offensive savior…but he was no schlub, either.

And if the Sanchez backup isn’t needed, then hey, he’s tradable. He won’t bring back a top player, but if he’s traded for a prospect better than Henry Sosa (not hard), then it’s been a plus deal for the Giants.

"The knowledge of the game is inversely proportional to the price of the seat." ---Bill Veeck. •Read My Blarrrgh...er, um....Comic. That doesn't really come across so well when said sarcastically. The Lunatic Fringe•

by BruteSentiment on Dec 2, 2011 8:35 PM PST reply actions

I think Stoffel was a better prospect than Sosa

Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)

by quincy0191 on Dec 3, 2011 12:44 AM PST up reply actions

I defended Stoffel quite a bit after his inconsistent year in A ball, but he was downright bad in AA last year. 50/25 bb/k is pretty awful. He also managed to give up more hits than IP without a particularly crazy BABIP and actually managed to give up the same number of HRs in AA that he had in the Cal League.

Course being in the Astros organization you can almost guarantee he’ll make it to the majors at some point in the next year, so we’ll see.

MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!

by Roger on Dec 3, 2011 7:50 AM PST up reply actions

Yikes. Of course, I meant 50/25 k/bb not the opposite. The opposite would be a good bit beyond awful.

MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!

by Roger on Dec 3, 2011 7:51 AM PST up reply actions

My caught a class A game where Stoffel imploded. Seemed like if he gets hit, he gets tense and starts throwing harder, losing all movement. Even Cal league hitters catch up with a straight fastball when they know it’s coming.

Marvin Barrios, come on I'll show you your bedroom. Don't stay on the phone too long to Panama, please.

by foothillsfan on Dec 3, 2011 1:27 PM PST up reply actions

Alls I know; Keppinger's bat is unstoppable

Bold Prediction: Pablo Sandoval finishes 1st or 2nd in 2012 NL MVP voting. I'm Twittering now (well maybe not literally now): @GoofusMcP

by Goofus on Dec 3, 2011 4:17 PM PST reply actions

I think he gets tendered a contract but isn't on the opening day roster

Read Me At: Twitter/Blog/MLBBonusBaby /Giants Nirvana

by Gobroks on Dec 3, 2011 4:28 PM PST via mobile reply actions

I don't think that will happen.

The Giants make a big deal about good form in their business practices. I can’t see them signing a player just to trade him, or taking a player to arbitration and then releasing him in spring training. They just don’t operate that way.

VAE PVTO DEVS FIO

by Bhaakon on Dec 3, 2011 10:09 PM PST up reply actions

But it wouldn’t be like they were signing him off the FA market. He’s under team control. Utilizing that control in order to bring in new players can’t reasonably be considered bad form. Certainly not comparable to the Bronson Arroyo situation.

MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!

by Roger on Dec 4, 2011 8:35 AM PST up reply actions

Wait

Isn’t this why people shat all over Sabean for not offering Pyrzinski arb? “Even if you don’t want him on the team, at least keep him and trade him!”

Bold Prediction: Pablo Sandoval finishes 1st or 2nd in 2012 NL MVP voting. I'm Twittering now (well maybe not literally now): @GoofusMcP

by Goofus on Dec 4, 2011 1:36 PM PST up reply actions

With good reason, I’d say.

MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!

by Roger on Dec 4, 2011 4:03 PM PST up reply actions

I don’t think that criticism holds up. After the Giants let Pierzynski go, he ended up signing for $2.25 million. Ergo, there can’t possibly have been a trade marked for him at the $3 million or more he was going to get in arbitration.

by Evan on Dec 5, 2011 8:10 AM PST up reply actions

I suppose if you isolate it that’s true. But as the coup de grace to a catastrophe it was highly ire inducing.

MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!

by Roger on Dec 5, 2011 8:38 AM PST up reply actions

Yes, and I don't think Pierzynski was the only example.

Which is why I say that Sabean won’t do it with Keppinger. I’m making a prediction, not a value judgement.

VAE PVTO DEVS FIO

by Bhaakon on Dec 4, 2011 4:09 PM PST up reply actions

I meant I'll think they'll look to move him (and I think they will)

Though I do think they would be ok with him as Sanchez insurance

Read Me At: Twitter/Blog/MLBBonusBaby /Giants Nirvana

by Gobroks on Dec 4, 2011 2:41 PM PST via mobile up reply actions

I'd much rather have Keppinger over Fontenot

Kepp has a WAY better bat than Fontenot, and much more consistent as well… Fontenot has his clutchy moments, but in a pressure situation I’d much rather have Kepp as a off-the-bench type than Fontenot, as long as Sanchez and Crawford are healthy, I would much rather see a Crawford/Keppinger platoon than a Crawford/Fontenot one… (if that were the only two options)

Uncle Sabes...How much longer til we get there?

by NorCalGiant on Dec 4, 2011 7:51 PM PST reply actions

Keppinger has a slightly better bat than Fontenot, but he’s no more consistent, and far worse on defense. Fontenot’s a good 2B and a passable SS – Keppinger can barely play second.

Crawford and Fontenot also “can’t” platoon, as they both hit lefty. Of course, Crawford and Keppinger absolutely can’t platoon because that wouldn’t leave anyone to play short when Keppinger was starting over Crawford.

Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)

by quincy0191 on Dec 4, 2011 8:20 PM PST up reply actions

Baggs Just Tweeted

that the Gints are looking at OF, RH IF help on the trade front. As Keppinger is a RH IF, it could be they are going to try and move him and if not successful will non-tender.

My wacky prediction before FA started was trading Ramon Ramirez for Marco Scutaro. Obviously the middle infield market has moved a bunch, but maybe they are talking to Boston about Scutaro or Lowrie for bullpen help. Boston sure could use it.

by shankbone on Dec 5, 2011 11:00 AM PST reply actions